E414 Flying Foopengerkles and The Art of Yapping

TOPICS: SINKHOLE SAM, ALISON BOTHA

It’s Episode 414 and the butterflies in our stomachs have turned to pterodactyls. This week Em takes us to Kansas for the wild tale of Sinkhole Sam, aka the Kansas Cryptid. Then Christine beings us to South Africa for the horrifying case of Alison Botha who truly is a survivor. And we swear we weren't going to lick the frosting, just look at it with our tongues out… and that’s why we drink!

Transcript

Em: Hello, everybody. Uh, before we get into our episode today, I am doing this kind of off-the-cuff, but we wanted to reach out to anybody who watches or hears this and thank you for all of the wonderful comments and people wondering about me and Allison, as well as Eva and Rachel, um, amidst the fires going on right now in Los Angeles. We are currently fine. I’m still in Virginia. It seems like forever. Um, Allison has evacuated just in case. And, uh, Eva and Rachel are also safe right now. Eva and I are neighbors, so [dry chuckle] we’re both equally nervous about the state of our homes. But it seems that, fingers crossed, we’re gonna be okay. We are pretty much dead center in a bunch of fires, um, and we’re just hoping it doesn’t spread to us. You never know. But thank you.

A-as of recording this, we are okay, and our homes are okay. Um, unfortunately, that cannot be said for many other people living in our area. Um, a few of our own friends have lost their homes now. And, um, it’s, it’s not a good time. And, uh, we are some of the lucky ones. There are other people who are really going through it in a, a way I still can’t wrap my head around.

But since we have such a large platform, and we have so many people who are caring about us, we felt like we should make sure that we are doing everything we can, um, to do our part and take care of the people dealing with the fires right now. There’s a lot of displaced people, lot of disp– lot of displaced animals. Um, so if you are in a space where you are capable of, uh, helping or offering resources, uh, we have created a bit.ly link o– It c– It is on our Instagram bio if you guys wanna go click it. You can also go directly to this website. It’s bit.ly/atwwdfirehelp. And from there, we are compiling a list of GoFundMes, um, places you can donate. There’s also a second tab – go check that – where we have resources about, you know, what’s going on with the animals in the area, uh, just all sorts of stuff.

Um, and if y– again, if you are in a place where you can donate or if you can be of service, if you are local who can physically get out there and help, um, it, it’s much appreciated, whether that’s offering evacuation help or food to people or, um, you know, whate– whatever you can. Um, and it– you know, if not, good, good vibes are also appreciated.

So, thank you, everyone, for reaching out to us. It really means a lot. Uh, currently, we are okay, and hopefully, it stays that way. So, anyway, not to like put such a bummer at the beginning of the show, but we felt, we felt like we should say something ’cause everyone’s been so kind and, and constantly asking about us. So, there you have that. And now we are gonna try to laugh. We’re gonna try to make you laugh. We’re gonna try to have fun. So, please enjoy the episode.

[intro music]

Christine: [singing] We’re in shades of green today. Our rooms and our shirts, they are the same.

Em: That’s beautiful. [laughs]

Christine: Thank you [unintelligible].

Em: Where are you learning all these songs, Christine?

Christine: You’re never gonna believe this. I just made it up.

Em: I– For a second, you caught me. I went, “Wait, there’s gonna be a real answer to this?” And then, um, nope. It was as predicted. Okay.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: You, you did a great job. D–

Christine: Thank you. I just noticed we’re all in greens today: your shirt, my shirt, your room, my room.

Em: Very Elphaba. [singing] Let us be glad. Let us be grateful. [speaking] Do you like that

Christine: Mm. How many times have you seen it now? Yeah, sure.

Em: [sighs] I liked it. That’s why I– I’ve seen it three times. Thank you so much. And I liked that because, if you noticed, I can hit high notes again because I’m finally no longer sick.

Christine: We got on the call, and I was like, “Oh, you still sound sick.” [laughs]

Em: And I went, “I– Okay. Well, I’ll just be leaving now.”

Christine: You went, “Well, thank you for that.” [laughs]

Em: No, I, I– Maybe there’s something left. But, um, it’s like not life-changing [laughs] the way that I was fully altered in the last few episodes. Um, but, uh, here’s the thing. So I’ve been here for almost an entire month now, and I showed up. I got my cold. I gave it to my stepbrother who gave it to my stepdad who gave it to my mom. Allison came to visit for a second. My mom gave it to her. And then it rotated again, and it seems like all of us got sick twice. And it was just the f– I’m–

Christine: Ugh!

Em: [laughs] This is like the first week where I feel like a human being again since I got here. Um, so, I’m very happy to not be sick.

Christine: So, now it’s time to partay! You have, what, three days left?

Em: Everyone else is– Yeah. Uh, if you hear anyone hacking a lung downstairs, it’s everyone else, um, but, finally not me.

Christine: Is, is Allison out there still?

Em: No, but the whole time she was here, she literally quarantined in this room. She didn’t even hang out with anyone, so.

Christine: Noo. Poor thing.

Em: Um, she tried to power through, but it was– She had like a good day in her, and then, immediately, she was like, “I don’t feel very good.” And I went, “Oh, boy. Well.”

Christine: Ugh! That feeling when you’re like, “I don’t feel–“ And then everyone’s like [gasps] “No!”

Em: Well also, that was– She’s gotten sick three times in a row now. Like she just can’t escape it, so.

Christine: ’Cause she was sick before that, yeah. Poor thing.

Em: Mm-hmm. Anyway, uh, I’m healthy. That’s all that matters, right? So.

Christine: That is– That’s all that matters. That’s so true.

Em: How do you feel? How are– How’s your brain? How’s your mind and soul?

Christine: Those are all very different questions with very different answers.

Em: And?

Christine: Actually, no. The answer’s all the same. They’re just bad. [laughs] No, they’re not bad. They’re fine. They’re okay. Everything’s fine.

Em: Why, why do you drink, Christine? I just gotta know ’cause I haven’t, I haven’t seen that sweet little face of yours in so long. I just gotta know all your woes. Tell me your woes.

Christine: [singing angelically] Ahh. [speaking] I could tell you my woes ’til the cows come home. I– Everything’s great. I’m happy for the new year. I feel very, um, in need of like a reset, so I’m very glad it’s a new year. But, it’s already the third day of the new year, and I haven’t been able to even process or sit down for more than five minutes at a time. So, I still feel so frazzled and hectic, but I’m gonna say, you know what? In like three days, or maybe the first week of January, I’ll be like that’s kinda the transition period. And then after that, maybe it’ll be my reset.

Em: Uh-huh.

Christine: I’m just really trying to like just take a fucking break for a moment. And I think I’ll get the chance.

Em: What are you, what are you scrambling with? What’s going on?

Christine: [sighs] Well, we’ve just been on holiday break for– I mean, we travelled so much. Then, we were on holiday break, which means like Leona’s off of school–

Em: Oh, yeah.

Christine: –which means like constant parenting, which means also then we were still working through Christmas– Well, not right through Christmas, but right before Christmas. I think we were– My brother– Or you and I recorded on the 24th, I think? Or no, no. We were supposed to, but we didn’t end up doing it.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Um, anyway, it just feels like it’s been non-stop. And then we went to Florida, which was really fun, to see my dad, but even that is like not relaxing ’cause it was only three days.

Em: No, that’s its own thing.

Christine: You know what I mean? It was like three days with family, and like Leona was– So we did like the pool and the, the zoo and all that. But, I’m just like, “Man, I need to just sleep.” But, Blaise let me sleep in today, which was lovely.

Em: Oh!

Christine: And his birthday was yesterday, so I felt like, you know what, that’s the last big thing where I need to be like, “No, no. You lay down.”

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Now I’m gonna be like, “Somebody else take over.”

Em: “Happy birthday, Blaise! My turn.” [laughs]

Christine: “I’m done!” [laughs] Yeah. “You’re 35-years-old. It’s about time.”

Em: Is he 35? What an old, old man.

Christine: My mom came over and said, “Oh my gosh, he’s almost to middle age. Did you know today middle age is 38?”

Em: [gasps]

Christine: And I went, “Why would you say that?” And then I said, “Well, don’t tell that to–“

Em: That’s th– actually the cruelest thing.

Christine: I said, “Don’t tell that to Blaise.” She said, “Oh, I would never.” And then he came downstairs, she said, “Guess what, Blaise? Happy birthday! You’re almost middle age!” And I said, “Mo– I just told you not to say it.”

Em: [scoffs]

Christine: She said, “I couldn’t stop myself.” I was like, “Well, I would’ve said it anyway if you didn’t, so it’s fine.” Um.

Em: Oh my gosh.

Christine: Anyway, but things are good, just hectic. I think maybe if we talk in a week I’ll be like, hopefully, a few levels down.

Em: Maybe, I, um– I don’t know. I’ve got the good energy today ’cause I feel like I–

Christine: I’m so glad about that.

Em: Well, I had– I literally had– Okay.

Christine: So one of us has to m–

Em: Oh! She’s gone. Just like that. Where’d you go? Jack, it’s just you and me. Did you see her just flee the second I said good energy was around us?

Christine: What was that? My, uh, computer just said, “Nev– never mind.”

Em: [laughs] I, I saw. I saw in real time. [laughs]

Christine: It’s literally still recording and everything. I don’t even know what happened.

Em: I don’t know. But I, uh– As soon as I said, “Oh, good energy,” your computer went, [laughs] “Goodbye.”

Christine: Literally! I said, “I’m glad someone has the good energy.” And then, my computer said, “frown face.”

Em: [laughs] It felt attacked.

Christine: Error 401. Yeah.

Em: Um, what was I gonna say? Oh, well s– Oh, speaking of–

Christine: Or 414?

Em: 414? Epi–

Christine: No, 404. 404. 404.

Em: 404 on Episode 414. That’s–

Christine: Oh, that is right. It is 414. Yeah.

Em: Uh, I will say I was also supposed to be in Florida as of two days ago.

Christine: That’s right.

Em: Yeah, we had that plan to kiss in the middle, remember?

Christine: [laughs] Yeah. W– Kiss from the air. [air kiss]

Em: [air kisses twice] Bisou bisou!

Christine: Bisou bisou! Ciao ciao!

Em: Um, so we were supposed to go to Florida to see my grandma, and I don’t know what is going on with my mother in her, in her m-middle age, not so middle age these days, but she is just Miss Stubborn. And she– and she’s gonna listen to this, and she– I have said this before. But, she and my stepdad, they kept doing the whole like, “I’m fine. I’m fine,” thing. “I’m not, I’m not sick,” or, “I’m not as sick as I feel.”

Christine: [gasps] Oh, I see.

Em: And I was like, “Are you about to go see your almost 90-year-old mother? And you are coughing like this?” By the way–

Christine: Bring your germs along with you?

Em: And, at first, she was like, “No, I’m okay. I’m okay.” Within 24 hours, by the way, she was diagnosed with like insane bronchitis. So– [laughs]

Christine: Poor th– Yeah. Oh god.

Em: I was like, “She’s not gonna wanna be near you. Like you can’t even hide this, like.”

Christine: Grandma doesn’t love you that much, jeez.

Em: I know! And also, my grandma is a little nervous because this year, she turns 90. No one in our family has t– ever really turned 90.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: Um, and so she’s like white-knuckling it.

Christine: [laughs] I feel like we talked about this either on the podcast or on, uh, Yappy Hour. When is her birthday? Just so we can all like–

Em: October! [laughs]

Christine: Oh, fuck! I was hoping you’d say February!

Em: She’s not like Blaise where it’s the day after New Year’s.

Christine: God dammit! [laughs]

Em: Um, yeah, she’s got a ways to go, and so–

Christine: That’s okay. She’s fucking gonna nail it! She’s in Florida. It’s warm. It’s good. We’re gonna na– We’re gonna make it all– We’re gonna coast to 90 and then 91 and then onward and onward.

Em: I– I certainly hope so, but she’s a little nervous. And I was like, “Please do not bring this hacking lung of yours to the– the woman who thinks she might not make ’til October.”

Christine: I know. And that’s– Yeah, that’s hard too because you’re like, “Well, I wanna see her in case sh– this is–“

Em: It? Yeah, I know. Um.

Christine: “–it.” Yeah, not to be dramatic, but you know, in ca– But then, you’re like, “But, I also don’t want to be the reason of her demise, bringing her bronchitis.” So.

Em: I know. Can you imagine the guilt? I’d rather just [laughs] not see her, um, but–

Christine: Uh, yeah, yeah.

Em: So I– My mom’s about to retire too, and I was like, “You’re literally about to have nothing but time to go see her. Like just, just–“

Christine: Good point.

Em: “Don’t do this.”

Christine: Oct– October is ten months away, Linda. You’ve got plenty of time to go see her. [laughs]

Em: E-easy breezy. And so, uh–

Christine: Nobody’s made it to 90, huh?

Em: Not to date. Not, not on record, that’s for sure.

Christine: You know what’s interesting? None of my grandparents are 90 yet, but one turns 90 in August.

Em: Well, we’ll know. We’ll know then if you can make it. B–

Christine: And I was gonna say, I don’t know that anyone I know in my family has a– either made it to 90, but I haven’t really checked.

Em: Yeah, I–

Christine: But all the ones who d– who are dead certainly didn’t make it to 90, so.

Em: Well, [laughs] I don’t know what it is. I have terrible genes, so.

Christine: [laughs] Here’s where I realize I also have a family curse that I forgot to even think about until this very moment.

Em: [laughs] We have a few family curses over here, but certainly, the 90 one scares me a little bit. Hopefully, I’ve got my dad’s genes in that way. Um, actually, no. They didn’t make it to 90 either. Never mind!

Christine: [laughs] Yeah, I know. We’re all realizing, “Wait, maybe 90’s just hard to make it to.”

Em: Probably. I, I’ll let you know when I get there. Or not.

Christine: Mm-kay.

Em: Um, anyway, so I told my mom–

Christine: I’ll find out, if you don’t make it. [laughs] I’ll be like, “Well, okay.”

Em: [laughs] Ouija board me.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: Um, so, I told my mom like, “We can’t possibly go.” And then, as we were packing the car to leave, she was like, “Okay, yeah. We’re not gonna go.” So.

Christine: [gasps]

Em: That’s how I ended up still in my stepsibling’s room recording with you.

Christine: Oh my god. As you pack to leave, wow. Was your grandma sad or was she like, “Phew”?

Em: I think she’s also like, “I don’t know if I’m gonna make it to 90. Please don’t come.”

Christine: Good.

Em: So, um, I heard her on the phone as soon as my mom told her we don’t feel good. She was like, “Do not be here. Do not come here.”

Christine: Oh, excellent. So she gets it.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: She’s not like– Yeah, okay. Got it, got it, got it. Well, that’s good. Well, hopefully– I’m glad you talked everyone out of spreading the illness.

Em: I– [laughs]

Christine: [laughs] Uh, and I’m, I’m very delighted to be able to celebrate your grandma’s 90th birthday this year.

Em: Me too. Everyone, everyone should do a, a cheers every day of October just, just to, uh, hoo-rah her.

Christine: Let’s send some– We do that anyway for Halloween. We might as well just a– throw Grandma in there. [laughs]

Em: Mm! I know. [laughs]

Christine: Wait, what do you call her? Do you call her Grandma? Or–?

Em: We call her Grandma, yeah.

Christine: Grandma, okay. S-send out good vibes, everyone.

Em: Um, on the opposite side of the age spectrum, how is that little Leona? I gotta know about this little baby of yours. I just love her so much.

Christine: She is out of her mind. I gotta tell you. I think this child is some sort of weird–

Em: Yes.

[laughs]

Christine: This child– She’s like– I tell you that day by day, she gets weirder and weirder, and Blaise and I like text each other quotes. We’re like, “Where does she come up with this shit?” And I know– you know, and obviously, I’m not so, um, naive as to think like, “Oh, only my child says interesting things.” It’s not that at all. I, I really– ’cause my– I had a little sister. She said the mo– funniest stuff. But this child, I mean, sometimes she says things – I’m trying to find my phone – and I’m like, I’m like, “Where–?” Like today, I went to pick up Gio with Leona from the dog sitter.

Em: Mm.

Christine: And she went with me one time before to drop him off.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Today, we’re picking him up. This is probably months ago that we did that. Today, we’re going to pick him up, and she goes, “Well, make sure to look for house number three.” And I was like, “What does that mean?”

Em: Hm?

Christine: And then I like went in Google Maps and was like, “Oh my god, their address is number thr– number three.” But I'm like, “How does she even know that?” Like, I mean, she must have remembered it from our last trip like months ago, but I’m like, “W-why is this s–?”

Em: She’s a little oracle.

Christine: Maybe she just has really good memory, and I like don’t– I don’t? Maybe that’s what’s happening. Um, and let’s see–

Em: Maybe she is a prophecy. I don’t know.

Christine: I– Well, I certainly am not claiming that. Uh.

Em: I am.

Christine: Yesterday, for example, we walked in. She was frosting Blaise’s birthday cake, and she had the spatula like, you know, really close to her mouth. And we were like, “Leona…” And she goes, “Oh, no, no. Mommy, I was just– You don’t understand. I was just looking at it with my tongue out.”

Em: [laughs] “You don’t understand, you big fat idiot.” Yeah.

Christine: And I was like– “You dummy, I was just looking at it with my tongue out.”

Em: “With my tongue out.”

Christine: And my mom and I were like, “O– I guess you can’t argue with that.”

Em: I was–

Christine: But it’s scary because sh-she’s so–

Em: I’d be like, “Leona, I-I’ve seen a l– I’ve seen a lot of things with my tongue, and I promise I, I know what I’m doing over here.” [laughs] “Don’t lie.”

Christine: [laughs] Yeah. “Uh, trust me, I’ve seen a spatula with frosting on it. I know what happens.”

Em: “Don’t bullshit a bullshitter, Leona.”

Christine: “Don’t bu–“ It– Exactly. And so that’s why it’s so alarming. It’s almost like– I’m like, “Oh my god. She can work her brain around things in a way that’s not helpful to me as the parent trying to get her to do stuff.” You know what I mean?

Em: I do– I would love to babysit her during one of her little moments where she thinks she has an original lie. I’d be like, “Okay. We’ve played that game before.”

Christine: She’s gotten super weird. Like even since, like spoiler alert, she does do part of the– a little tiny part of the live show. E-Em had cor– had to– done something–

Em: Mm.

Christine: –and she had parti– Leona had participated. And even watching that now, I’m like, “Oh my god. She’s like a completely different person now.” Like she talks completely differently since then, which is only a few months ago.

Em: Really?

Christine: Yeah. So I don’t know. Her– That damn brain in her head is–

Em: Do you mean like she’s got like– she doesn’t have baby voice anymore? She has like toddler voice or?

Christine: She just like speaks in full sentences now, you know, like just not, not that kind of like little snippets. Like she’ll just like go on an entire long rant, and we’re like, “What?” In like full sentences, and we’re like, “Holy smokes!”

Em: Once you figure out the art of yappin’, you can’t stop. I get it.

Christine: That’s exactly it. It’s also scary ’cause it’s so familiar to me in the worst way when I–

Em: [laughs] Having a kid is just m– You might as well have given birth to a mirror. Like it’s just–

Christine: [singing] Look in the mirror. [speaking] Yes, exactly. And so, uh, after we gave her a taste of stardom when Em gave her a microphone that one time, I live in fear that one day she’ll come up here, and I’ll find, uh, I’ll find her live, streaming live to the, to the nation. So, uh, this is what I live in fear of my whole life.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: But thank you for asking. She’s doing great. I’m excited for you to see her whenever we get together ’cause she talks about– She’s like, “Oh, this is from Funcle Em.” She likes to talk about who gave her what presents. Um.

Em: Yeah. I’ve really, um–

Christine: So, you’re a common, you’re a common name in the household as you, as you would have wanted.

Em: My only dream was to damage her psyche enough that a whole love language would be born. Um.

Christine: That’s charming. That’s–

Em: And she just knows that gifts are the way, the only way.

Christine: Yeah. That’s– Yeah, she loves it. She loves to give gifts. She loves to open gifts.

Em: See? That’s what I’m talking about. Funcle Em – TM, TM, TM. Um, I gotta say–

Christine: Yeah. It’s not like any other three-year-old likes presents.

Em: Mm-mm. Not in the way she does. Not the way I’m gonna make sure she does.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: I gotta give you props though because while I’ve been home, I have had to see quite a lot of friends who have children now. And, I’m not gonna say all. I will say some of the children have made me say out loud, “Man, I really miss Leona.” [laughs]

Christine: Aww!

Em: So there’s that.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: I– Not that, uh, any of my parent– not any of my friends are bad parents, but their kids are just going through, I guess, a phase, uh, or something.

Christine: Well, I mean, there are times when you certainly didn’t like Leona very much, and it was mostly when she had hand, foot, and mouth, um.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: But, you know, there are other times.

Em: It’s also when she didn't like me, to be clear. The second she liked me, I was all in. [laughs]

Christine: Well, that was– [laughs] Yeah, that’s a pretty easy switch to turn on. Yeah.

Em: [laughs] Uh, but no, there have been a f– there have a few times. I really– I, I don’t just say it ’cause you’re my best friend or because people are listening, but truly, I just think you have one of the best little kids. And so, I–

Christine: Well, that’s nice.

Em: Uh, there– What I–

Christine: She’s a very happy baby.

Em: Once I have a– Leo-Leona is my standard for children because very few I just genuinely want to be in a room with all the time.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: And when I meet someone who doesn’t meet the Leona standard, I just go, “Ooh, well. I gotta get away from this.”

Christine: Doesn’t make the cut.

Em: “I gotta go home.”

Christine: That’s how you’ve cut out all your friends. You’re like, “Do you meet the Christine standard? Nope. Sorry. Christine’s the only one. She’s the top of the pinnacle, you know. Pinnacle of friendship, you know what I mean?”

Em: [laughs] I will say there’s no other friend I would want to work with, so you– There is something, there is something there, for sure.

Christine: Well, now, that I’ll take because I would exactly argue the same thing. I don’t think I can think of a friend I would like to also work with, um, except you.

Em: That’s nice. I have a reason why I drink.

Christine: Oh? You do? Another one? Tell me everything. Oh, I guess that wasn’t your reason for drinking. It was just me asking if you were sick. [laughs]

Em: Yeah

Christine: Why– And you’re not! [laughs] So why do you drink this week?

Em: Uh, but I, I drink just because I’m so happy to be with you. I’ve missed you so much. I really have been so–

Christine: Aw. We literally haven’t texted since before Christmas. I looked to text you, and I was like, “We just like don’t– We didn’t speak the entire break.” [laughs] I think we needed like a, uh– Well, you were all sick too. But, I think we all needed just like a [inhales deeply] breath.

Em: I wasn’t on this Earth, uh, in a lot of ways, so no.

Christine: Yeah, right. That’s kinda the vibe I got. Yeah.

Em: But, I’m back, bitch. You can tell– Uh, what’s that–

Christine: Whoa-oa-oah! Look out!

Em: What’s that quote from, from Gossip Girl? Oh, “You, you can tell Jesus that the bitch is back.” And I, and I mean that. So.

Christine: [laughs] Hang on, hang on.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: [to Blaise offscreen] Hey. Hey. Wake up.

Em: [laughs] Happy birthday!

Christine: Sorry, he’s napping.

Em: Happy belated.

Christine: I’ll tell him later. Happy, happy belated. Sorry.

Em: Uh, no, but I just– I am just glad to be back with my yappin’ champion buddy, so, uh.

Christine: Oh, we’re good. We’re good at that. No wonder. What am I looking at Leona with question marks for? Like obviously she talks all the time. I mean, duh.

Em: [laughs] The three of us are gonna have a blast one day when she’s got her first round of gossip. Oh!

Christine: Ooh… It’s never gonna stop.

Em: Crack out the juice boxes.

Christine: Let’s go! [laughs]

Em: Okay, other than that, do you have a reason why you drink? I don’t know if I asked you.

Christine: Oh! Yes, you did. I’m just, uh, frazzled beyond repair, but I, but I hope to repair it sometime this week, so. Uh, hopefully, next week, I’ll be like on the planet Earth again. I’m kinda up here right now, but I’ll come back.

Em: And then you’ll, and then you’ll say you missed me back, you know.

Christine: [deep inhale] Well...

Em: Dang. I clocked that too. Wow.

Christine: [laughs] Just kidding. I do miss you a lot. It was weird to not talk to you for a few weeks. I– And it was not intentional. I honestly didn’t really talk to anyone for two weeks. Um, because it’s like so much family, um, and all that, but. But yeah, I do miss you too. And I, I get to see you next, next month? It felt weird because it’s like we’ve seen each other like every other week all fall and all spring.

Em: Yeah, I think that’s why I miss you so much because I’ve, I– We’ve been in a pattern of seeing each other and talking to each other non-stop.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: And then, all of a sudden, it just went away. But I literally– This is so embarrassing. This is literally like, like I have a middle school crush on you because I almost texted you today that I literally got butterflies at the thought of talking to you.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: And [laughs] and then I erased it, and then I erased it–

Christine: Oh boy!

Em: –because I was like, “That’s too weird. That’s too weird.” [laughs]

Christine: Aww. Well, this is much better to tell it like this. Um, first of all, that makes my heart soar. Thank you.

Em: You’re welcome.

Christine: And also, this is what I have to say, Em. I’ve been watching 1000-lb Sisters on TLC, um.

Em: [laughs] As you do.

Christine: And– [laughs] As I should. And, uh, uh, Tammy always says, “The butterflies in my stomach are turning into pterodactyls.” And– I just– It got me good.

Em: [laughs] Now, that. I, I can get behind that. I can get–

Christine: And she said it one time, and I said, “Did she just–? What did she just say?” And I like rewound it. I was like, “Is nobody talking about this? This is an excellent line.” Um, so I’m gonna t– borrow it and say, “You know what, Em? I’ll match your butterflies with pterodactyls.”

Em: Ah, now my butterflies look so stupid and dainty. Uh–

[laughs]

Christine: Yeah, and mine look kick-ass and evil.

Em: Yours are just surrounded like bursts of fire, yeah.

Christine: Yes, volcanoes everywhere.

Em: [laughs] Well, uh, no. I’m just very glad to see your little face ’cause I really haven’t seen anything outside of this house in quite some time.

Christine: I know. I think this is nice. It’ll be like a little, uh, a little, just a– nice little hitch back into normalcy. A little more routine.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: A little more just, uh, back to the, back to the day-to-day.

Em: Do you wanna hear a story?

Christine: You know I’d love nothing more, Emothy.

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Em: I don’t have a ghost story for you today. I have a cryptid.

Christine: Noo– Oh. What? A cryptid.

Em: Thank you, wow. Um.

Christine: I thought you were saying like, “I don’t have a story,” as like a joke or something.

Em: That would be–

Christine: I was playing along, and then I realized you meant a gho– [laughs] like specifically a ghost story.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: ’Cause I thought you were saying, “Oh, you want one? Well, I don’t have one.” And I was like–

Em: Oh, that would be a fun tease after this long. That would be–

Christine: Oops! Hey–

Em: Talk about Reddit. People would be like, “You literally have one job.”

Christine: “By the way, we can’t record. Bye!”

[laughs]

Em: Although, there was a– Isn’t the reason why we didn’t record on Christmas Eve ’cause one of us forgot to do a story? Isn’t that–?

Christine: Oh, probably. I mean, it sounds like me. I don’t know. I don’t– I literally, Em, it seem– it feels like a distant pers– a distant lifetime. I don’t have any clue.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: But I– You’re probably right. And also, if I scroll up one inch on our texts, I can find out since we haven’t spoken since before Christmas.

[laughs]

Christine: Um.

Em: I think you said something about, um.

Christine: Uh. [laughs] Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We had– Oh, there was an eggplant emoji. At least our last conversation of 2024 was very memorable. Um, I said, “I’m staring at my iCal with one eye open.” This was at two in the morning, so I’m sure, uh [laughs] I’m sure things didn’t go well from there.

Em: [laughs] Try to– The day before recording, is that what you’re saying?

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Oh, okay. What happened next?

Christine: And then I said, “Well, we could do 11 tomorrow.” And then you sent dot dot dot. And I said, [looks to the side] eyes emoji. And you said, “You know what I want.”

Em: [laughs]

Christine: Which, by the way, like in any other–

Em: [laughs] Which means, by the way, I did– It meant, “I don’t want to record tomorrow. Please don’t make me.”

Christine: Exac– Well, and then, Em sent a, a fucking eggplant emoji.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: So, it like feels out of context like so– But in– I didn’t realize ’til this moment. In the moment, it didn’t feel gross or weird. It just felt like, “Oh, I do know what you want. And guess what? I want it too.” But now I’m like, oh my god. You look at it, and you go, “What were we saying to each other?” ’Cause then I’m sending like devil emoji and like eyes. And you were sending eggplant.

Em: Did you– How’d you respond? What happened next? Tell me.

Christine: Oh, you said– I said, “LMAO.” And then you sent an eggplant. And I said, “Let’s sleep.”

Em: Okay.

Christine: And then– Well, you said, “Say you want it too,” by the way.

[laughs]

Christine: You sent an eggplant, and then you said, “Say you want it too.” And I wrote, “Let’s sleep.” So all of this sounds like we’re setting up some sort of affair, I think, but in like a very literal way. “Let’s sleep.” And then you said, “Yay!” And then I said–

Em: “You know what I want. Say you want it too.” Yikes. [laughs]

Christine: And then I sai– [laughs] I said, “We’re sick in the head.” You said, “I love it.” I said, “Me too. Let’s move to Kalen– Galena.” And you said, “It’s my only Christmas wish.”

Em: [laughs]

Christine: And I said, “It’s not a big ask.” And you said, “My dream house in Galena–“ This is 2:01 am. “My dream house in Ga–“ On December 24th. “My dream house in Galena got sold last week. I cried.” And then I said, “Wow. FML. FYL.”

Em: I did. It did.

Christine: And that was the last we spoke in 2024.

Em: It was walking distance from the cobblestone.

Christine: Yeah, you did mention that also.

Em: [sighs]

Christine: And I felt heartsick for you. And I’m so sorry about that. But, um, here I am, and I’m so glad that we both wanted the same thing. Wink! [laughs]

Em: [laughs] That– Those will be the screenshots that go to like People magazine one day. [laughs]

Christine: I know! I know. It’s like, uh, that’s the Reddit shit. When I turn my phone around really briefly, someone’s gonna screenshot it and like zoom in.

[laughs]

Em: Okay. Well, as for– to the audience, when it comes to a story, uh, I know what I want. Tell me you want it too. To tell you a story.

Christine: Let’s go to sleep.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: I mean, let’s listen to a story.

Em: Yay! Okay. This is the story of Sinkhole Sam.

Christine: [gasps] Why do I know about this?

Em: I– Please don’t say it’s because I’ve done this before.

Christine: Mm, certainly not. I think Karen Kilgariff is really into sinkholes, and she did like a Sinkhole Sunday or something.

Em: Oh!

Christine: She did like, she did like a whole series about sinkholes. Karen Kilgariff.

Em: You really gotta know a lot about sinkholes to commit to that kinda series.

Christine: But isn’t that amazing? Like she did it for her– I mean, I’ve never watched it. Sinkholes. Yeah, she did a whole sinkholes thing. She’s like really into it. Sinkhole Saturdays, yeah. Okay.

Em: Honestly– Damn, good for her. I–

Christine: Anyway.

Em: I could bullshit something about sinkholes, I guess, once.

Christine: This is insane. You can rate– So she rates them. [laughs] She reviews sinkholes and rates them on a scale of o– these are emojis – one hole to five holes. [laughs]

Em: That’s beautiful.

Christine: I can’t. I just don’t know.

Em: You know what?

Christine: So that, that might be where I’ve heard of this.

Em: And, and that's how you make success. And that’s how you make a su–

Christine: That’s right. And that’s beautiful and creative. Anyway, I’m so sorry. Go ahead. I don’t know who Sinkhole Sam is.

Em: Well, okay. Ka– Karen Kilgariff in the, uh, f– in the very r-random event you hear this, let me know if my story is one out of five holes or five out of five holes.

Christine: I know. I can’t wait to hear.

Em: So, these days the story of Sinkhole Sam is nearly completely forgotten. It is in Kansas. Some sources actually used to call this the Kansas Cryptid or the Kansas Loch Ness Monster, insert thing here. Uh, but officially Sinkhole Sam is his name. And it is Samuel, not Samanatha, in case you were wondering.

Christine: [gasps] Thank you for checking.

Em: You’ll find out how I know about that later.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: Uh, he allegedly lives in Lake Inman, which, uh, eventually drained and left sinkholes, and that’s how we get all the sinkholes.

Christine: Gotcha.

Em: Um, for those who for some reason don’t know, a sinkhole is a low pocket of water, and water gets stuck in there, becomes very muddy. It’s a sinkhole. Um, and there was one source that said the sinkholes and the draining of the lake came to be after like a collapse of limestone all over the place. But, I didn’t really see that anywhere else. Basically, they’re sinkholes. That’s all you gotta know. And it’s in Lake Inman. Specifically, there is a very large sinkhole there. There’s the large sinkhole of Lake Inman. It is known by locals as The Big Sinkhole, obviously.

Christine: I love that. I love when you just give it a name that tells you what it is.

Em: When you tell Grandpa to name it instead of like your whimsical teenager. It’s– you know?

Christine: [laughs] Right.

Em: It’s like, “Grandpa, what is it?” [low, grouchy voice] “I dunno. Big Sinkhole.” Um.

Christine: Yeah, like I used to get goldfish and name them like “Avenge Sevenfold,” and my mom was like, “Can you stop being fucking so weird?”

Em: Yea– [laughs]

Christine: “And name your fish ‘Sam’ like a normal person?”

Em: You know what I just found out? My stepbrother was telling me. He, uh, named a bunch of his friends’ pets. And he is a big fan of – this is very millennial – but it’s, uh– big fan of animals being named after food.

Christine: Aw, that’s cute.

Em: And I really liked this one. He named a little kitten, Kiwi.

Christine: [gasps]

Em: I thought that was so precious.

Christine: That’s a great name. ’Cause then you just, “Ki-ki-kiwi, Kiwi, kitty cat.”

Em: Yeah.

Christine: That’s really a cute name.

Em: I thought that was lovely.

Christine: I’ve never heard that for an animal. I– If you guys have a Kiwi out there, I bet someone just went [gasps].

Em: Yeah, let me know–

Christine: Can you send us a picture?

Em: Send us a picture of Kiwi. Thank you so much.

Christine: [laughs] And tell what nicknames you picked ’cause I feel like there’s a lot of options for Kiwi.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Widdle Kiwi.

Em: A, uh, su– such a cute name. And I also– My other favorite, um– He did not name this, but this is someone I know in LA. They have a, uh, Golden Retriever named Banana. Really, really gets me going.

Christine: That’s good! Little yellow banana. That’s so cute!

Em: Aww. The widdle bananies.

Christine: [sighs]

Em: Um. Okay, so. Sinkhole Sam blah-blah-blah. There’s sinkholes. Oh, yes. The Big Sinkhole.

Christine: The Big Sinkhole. Right.

Em: That’s where Sinkhole Sam lives. Um, so, we start in the 1920s: Sinkhole Sam’s very first sighting.

Christine: [gasps]

Em: And he’s seen by two fishermen. And not a lot to talk about here except that they saw something large allegedly hiss at them, and then it kind of slithered away into the sinkhole.

Christine: Ew. Like a snake?

Em: Right?

Christine: Yeah.

Em: I mean, Sinkhole Sam– I, I think what we’re getting at is eventually it’s just a big fucking snake. That’s–

Christine: Wh– Which is terrifying in its own right, don’t get me wrong, but–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Sure.

Em: But also I don’t know why we’re calling it anything other than just like, “Oh, Larry saw a big fucking snake.”

Christine: Fucking snake over there.

Em: Um. So they saw this large thing – scurried away. The rest of the sightings are in the 1950s. So for 30 years, we just had this one guy go, [in rough, low voice] “Yeah, I saw a big snake down there one time.”

Christine: [laughs]

Em: Um, and then the ‘50s. We get a bunch of other sightings. One of the first ones is this group of hunters, which like some said hunters, some said fishermen again. I feel like you’re more of a fisherman if you’re out by the lake during a sinkhole, but I don’t know enough about hunting. Maybe I’m wrong.

Christine: Yeah, I don’t know. Sinkhole fishing sounds fun. I’ve heard of ice hole fishing.

Em: Yeah, right? Um, so, anyway, a group of hunters/fishers– They said that they saw something covered in the weed– uh, covered up in weeds on the ground below them. I think there’s like a bridge somewhere or a ledge, and so they were kinda looking down at the sinkhole.

Christine: Mm.

Em: They see something lying on the ground below them. They try to get closer to it, thinking it was a dead animal. And all of–

Christine: They’re like, “Score! Dinner tonight!”

Em: [laughs] “I didn’t even have to kill this one.” Yeah.

Christine: “Roadkill!” [laughs]

Em: And, uh, all of a sudden, they’re like– freaks out and slithers away also.

Christine: Ew! That’s the list thing you want to see something do under some leaves. Slither?

Em: Ever.

Christine: Are you kidding me?

Em: In any circumstance–

Christine: Any.

Em: –the last thing I want to see is someone slithering.

Christine: Absolutely not. Like movement under leaves, bad. Slithering? The worst.

Em: A lo– There’s a lot of real reasons to be mad at J.K. Rowling, but I gotta be honest. Deciding to name a whole fucking dormitory “Slytherin”?

Christine: [laughs]

Em: I’m like, you could have picked any other fucking word.

Christine: And she knows it too.

Em: She knows it. She was telling us from the beginning that she had fucking things she wanted to piss us off with.

Christine: She had problems from the start.

Em: Uh, so these hunters– They were the first people to give a description of Sinkhole Sam. They said that it was 20 to 25 feet long. Holy shit, by the way.

Christine: Yeah, uh-uh.

Em: And it had no eyes, ears, or nose. By the way, do snakes have ears that you would be able to see?

Christine: You know what, I think they– No, they have little like–

Em: Holes, right?

Christine: Holes, yeah.

Em: Yeah, so it wasn’t gonna have ears anyway. Thanks for trying to freak us out.

Christine: That would be insane if it had ears. A snake with ears? Now that, Larry– Larry, you could have really got everybody going with that, but–

Em: He should have said, “Actually, this one did have ears,” and people would have freaked the fuck out. Yeah.

Christine: Exactly. Just glue some ears onto that bad boy.

Em: Uh, but anyway, this thing had no eyes or a nose or ears.

Christine: Okay.

Em: But it did have a really big mouth. Now, that I don’t like. I gotta be honest.

Christine: I don’t enjoy that one bit. No, thank you.

Em: Of all of the things it could have, a mouth is the one I don’t want it to have.

Christine: That’s, that’s one I would rather skip.

Em: Have the biggest eyes in the world. You can’t do anything with it with me.

Christine: Get some, get some ears. Get some ears on you. That’s fine.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: Just take some ears.

Em: Get one of those Mr. Potato Head glasses with the nose and the mustache.

Christine: Perfect! Then you get it all.

Em: Um, after this sighting, uh, the next couple of people to see it became like– One of them were documented. I’d say the most documented report about this. So, uh, the next sighting, or the next big sighting at least, there’s these two Mennonite boys, and their names are Albert and George.

Christine: Mm.

Em: They go fishing at the sinkhole. I think they’re standing like on a bridge or– again, they’re looking over atop the sinkhole. George says that he sees something in the sinkhole, and Albert goes, “Good enough for me,” and takes out his fucking rifle and tries to shoot it. Um.

Christine: What? Okay.

Em: He, he should have been in that group of hunters, I guess.

Christine: I guess so.

Em: Um, now, Albert– I love that there is a discrepancy here between the friends because Albert claims he hit the thing, and George is like, “It ran away pretty quickly.” Um.

Christine: [laughs] Yeah, bullshit. Nice try.

Em: [laughs] It’s like, uh, “No, no. I’m just, I’m just staring at the spatula full of frosting.”

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. “I just had my tongue out for no reason. Don’t worry about it.”

Em: [laughs] And George is like, “He fucking ate the entire bowl actually.”

Christine: “He literally ate it. It’s fine.”

Em: So, uh, in newspaper articles at least, it says that Albert claimed that he shot it, and then it ran away after being shot. Uh, some other stories later say he didn’t even hit it. Um, but George says, “Oh, no, I don’t think Albert hit it. It ran away pretty quick.” They were able to describe it again though and said it was only 15 feet long, so it’s almost half the size that other people are saying.

Christine: Mm.

Em: But it’s as thick as a car tire.

Christine: Ew!

Em: That’s a big boy. That’s a big boy.

Christine: I don’t like that one bit.

Em: And apparently, they confirmed that it had a mouth. It was full of sharp teeth, which I didn’t think I hated snakes– I, I know I could hate them more but to have a mouth full of sharp teeth instead of just the two.

Christine: Yeah, and you think you put on that Mr. Potato Head mustache, and it will all just be funny again.

Em: A-at least the mustache might cushion the fangs.

Christine: That’s right! Come on, relax.

Em: They did say it had a, uh– This snake thing had a pointed tail. That seemed to be the only new piece of information we got from their sighting.

Christine: Okay.

Em: Um, except for the fact that it might be shorter. So now, ever since then, people say 15 to 25 feet long because we just don’t know.

Christine: Okay, right. So we don’t know. It’s [laughs] somewhere in that range.

Em: Really long is all you– all we need to know.

Christine: Maybe it’s like an earthworm where it gets cut in half, and it can like regrow.

Em: Oh. Maybe.

Christine: I don’t know. I d–

Em: Can earthworms do that?

Christine: Yes!

Em: That’s disgusting– I’ve, I’ve never ventured into worm snake world, so I really don’t know.

Christine: I mean, that’s obvious. When I was three, I was definitely out there with, uh, in the dirt, making friends with the worms.

Em: Ugh. You know, I remember in kindergarten being someone who wasn’t afraid of like touching caterpillars and daddy long legs and stuff. And–

Christine: Yeah. What happened?

Em: I don’t know, but I don’t wanna go back.

Christine: Yeah, you’re like, “I like it better this way.” [laughs]

Em: [laughs] Yeah, it’s like, what was I doing? But I remember thinking it was so fun to have caterpillars crawling on you. Oh my god! Or like–

Christine: [laughs]

Em: Or like to have like a ladybug land on you, and apparently, that’s lucky.

Christine: Yeah! It is.

Em: Nowadays, I’d scream like I’d just witnessed a crime.

Christine: What?

Em: I, I– The idea–

Christine: When a ladybug lands on you? You’re outta your mind.

Em: Anything touching me that is an insect.

Christine: A butterfly?

Em: Oh, I would cry. I– You know– [laughs]

Christine: Actually, I don’t like butterflies touching me because I worry I’m gonna kill them by accident like get oil on their wings or something.

Em: You know what’s– uh, Allison has seen me, multiple times, uh, have an encounter with a butterfly, and it’s like I’m acting like it’s, like it’s a monster coming after me. [laughs]

Christine: Like it’s a snake with a giant mouth? Yeah.

[laughs]

Em: I really go fully just Scream scream, and then I go, “Oh, it was a butterfly.”

[laughs]

Christine: You’re an idiot.

Em: Like it might as well be like a hornet, and it’s in my eyeball. Um.

[laughs]

Christine: You’re such an idiot.

Em: So. Anyway. Uh, that’s what those two, uh, those two Mennonite boys said that, um.

Christine: Gotcha.

Em: Which, by the way, why would they lie? They’re honest, God-fearing little boys, you know, so.

Christine: That’s true.

Em: Um, so their story because, I guess, they had an interaction with it of like “we almost shot it, and then we didn’t or maybe we did.”

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: That is what really put this story on the map. And, uh, like columnists, reporters started coming in wanting to write about it, and the story started spreading throughout the town. So what really put it on the cryptid, cryptid map and made this a big to-do.

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: One guy came in to write an article about it, and his name was Ernest Alva Dewey.

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: So, to give you an idea of where– h-his, his humble beginnings. He started out as a publicist for a circus.

Christine: Oh!

Em: And that might have trickled into his–

Christine: Journalism.

Em: –later career. Mm-hmm.

Christine: Oh. Mm.

Em: Because he, uh, later became known for covering a lot of town cryptids, local lores, uh, but pretty, but pretty obviously to me, making satire of them.

Christine: Ohhh. I see.

Em: But I think because he was already talking about something somewhat pseudo-ridiculous that his satire didn’t totally land with some people.

Christine: Ohh.

Em: And they thought it was real journalism. I mean–

Christine: Oh boy.

Em: I guess you’re already talking about like Mothman–

Christine: Awkward!

Em: –then anything you have to say does sound kind of crazy.

Christine: Right.

Em: So, he just rode with it, and he was like, “Alright, I’m gonna say whatever the fuck I want, and I guess people might believe me.” Um, an example of this is during the 1950s UFO craze, he said that UFOs were a species of dragons called the Ball-Tailed Snickelhoopus.

Christine: [laughs] What?

Em: And then he said that those UFOs were just passing through, but the lights that we’re seeing in the sky are to attract mates. So.

Christine: [laughs] “They’re just fucking up there. Don’t worry.”

Em: [laughs] “It’s just a bunch of Snickelhoopus doing–“

Christine: “Just a horn– It’s a bunch of horny Snickelhoopers. Don’t worry about it, little, little Johnny.” What the fuck?

Em: [laughs] “Shield your eyes from the Snickelhoopus dongs flying around in the air.”

Christine: Yuck! Seriously, get it together, you fucking freaks.

Em: [laughs] In, in other articles, he had, uh, covered some pretty hard-hitting creatures–

Christine: Yeah?

Em: –such as the Snawfus,–

Christine: Oh!

Em: –the Arkansas Gowrow, th–

Christine: This sounds like shit Leona makes up every day. She’s always like– I’m like, “What’s your na–“ I’m like, “Hey, can you tell them your name?” Like when someone’s like, “Hey, what’s your name?” And she’s like, “Cinamooma.”

Em: “I’m the Arkansas Gowrow.” [laughs]

Christine: She literally says, “Gowroo. Cinamooma. Bee-boo-bah.” And we’re like, “Can you not?” [laughs] “Can you not?” Um.

Em: Well, he also covers the Willipus-Wallipus, which I think Leona would love.

Christine: [laughs] That’s good.

Em: And this is something you could call her if you wanted to poke fun at her. This is the Ring-Tailed Tooter. [laughs]

Christine: Oh! She’s gonna love that.

Em: If she’s got a, an upset tummy maybe, so. Uh, the Ring-Tailed Tooter is on the loose, [laughs] I suppose.

Christine: Tooter is good. Tooter is good. She’s gonna love that.

Em: So these– He was just writing about these as if they were, I guess, real creatures or at least it was believable enough that some people fell for it. I like to think there were some people who knew this was obviously a joke, but, you know, there’s a, a range of people reading the paper.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Um, so, of course, with his background, he’s like, “I gotta write about Sinkhole Sam. There’s no way I’m gonna miss this opportunity.”

Christine: He’s gotta.

Em: So, he wrote in the paper that he came himself to the area to study the Sinkhole Sam, and he brought with him a research assistant. And the research assistant’s name was Dr. Erasmus P. Quattlebaum.

Christine: [laughs] No, it wasn’t.

Em: Which sounds like Hogwarts, like he would be in Slytherin, right? So.

Christine: Right. Absolutely. No, he’d be in Hufflepuff, for sure.

Em: Yeah. [laughs] Erasmus Quattlebaum would definitely–

Christine: Quattlebaum? Come on.

Em: He is definitely, um, supplying the keg at the party.

Christine: He’s N– He’s Neville’s mo– mentor, I think.

Em: [laughs] He’s the one that’s always got like a broken wand or something. Yeah.

Christine: Aw, yeah. It’s sad for him. He’s always getting it mended.

Em: Uh, so as, uh– What’s his actual– Um, what– That’s the assistant’s name. What’s his name? Ernest Dewey. So–

Christine: So, was it an actual assistant, or did he make that up too?

Em: I– He made this up for sure.

Christine: Okay, good. I was like– ’Cause that’s really wild if his assistant actually has that name.

Em: I know. Yeah. No.

Christine: Got it.

Em: From head to toe, this thing is just a complete farce.

Christine: I understand. Okay. Gotcha.

Em: But, but I think he was talking about it with the level of seriousness everyone else was taking Sinkhole Sam.

Christine: Uh-huh.

Em: And so people just read into it of like, “Oh, well, this guy came in with a research assistant.” And if you say enough, you know, power words, you know, buzz words, then they just kinda fell for it, I guess.

Christine: Uh-huh, uh-huh. Yeah, yeah.

Em: But, uh– And some people– Again, I would like to think I’d be one of the people who read that and went, “This guy’s really funny. He made a whole bit about this.”

Christine: Yeah.

Em: But also as someone who falls for things often, maybe I would think, “Wow. Dr. Quattlebaum researched the fucking lake,” you know?

Christine: I know. It’s hard to s– “[unintelligible] Did you hear? Dr. Quattlebaum! He’s on the case.” Yeah.

Em: [laughs] “He’s on the case.”

Christine: I don’t know how I would react. I like to think I would know better, but I doubt it. [laughs]

Em: I know. Yeah, me too. It’s like I, I really hope–

Christine: You and I would probably start a fan club, okay, for this guy.

Em: You and I would act like we were totally not believing it, and then after a couple drinks of wine, you’d go, “You know what I kinda think?”

Christine: “Come on.”

Em: “That Quattlebaum is up to something.”

Christine: “Like you gotta agree, right?” And then we’d start our own little fan club. It would be great.

Em: So, Ernest Dewey and Erasmus Quattlebaum, they af–

Christine: [laughs]

Em: This is a quote: “After exhaustive and exhausting tests”–

Christine: Mm, wow.

Em: –uh, on the lake and sinkholes themselves, they finally figured out what Sinkhole Sam was.

Christine: Oh!

Em: So, they’re– He does– He exists, first of all. I guess they’re saying that.

Christine: That’s huge.

Em: Uh, but they figured out what species he was. And wouldn’t you know it? Of course, how did we not see this coming, Christine? Sinkhole Sam is a Foopgengerkle.

Christine: I was gonna say a Hoopergangle or something! I was cl– so close!

Em: He’s a, he’s a goddamn “Foop-gen-gerkle”. And–

Christine: How did we not see that? You’re right. That is obvious now that I look back. Hindsight is 20/20.

Em: [sighs] Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Christine: So stupid.

Em: So, for the idiots out there who don’t know what a Foopgengerkle is.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: I did– I obviously know, but for the people who don’t know, let me just teach you. Um.

Christine: Obviously. Just say it really slowly, so I can hear it and make sure you say it right to everyone else.

Em: [laughs] Also this spatula full of frosting will not be eaten.

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Don’t look at my tongue. [laughs]

Em: So a Foopgengerkle is a–

Christine: Stop it.

Em: –a subterranean animal that often burrows into the ground. So that would make sense why sometimes we’re not finding him. Maybe he’s just burrowing into the sinkholes.

Christine: Total sense.

Em: Obvious. Like, come on.

Christine: Obviously.

Em: We all knew this.

Christine: That makes sense.

Em: But, we should not be worried because, um– Well, actually, how ‘bout I read you a quote instead about why you shouldn’t be worried.

Christine: I’m a little worried. Okay.

Em: I’m certainly worried about Ernest Dewey and Erasmus Quattlebaum.

Christine: The– Yeah. 100%. The moment you said, “Don’t be worried,” I get actually more worried.

Em: So, I was gonna give you some bullet points, but instead, how about I read you some quotes from the news article itself?

Christine: That would be lovely.

Em: So. This is exactly wh– These are verbatim what, uh, Ernest Dewey and quote, and “Erasmus Quattlebaum” or whatever, had to say about the matter.

Christine: ‘Kay.

Em: This is a, a newspaper article from 1952. “It is a Foopengerkle. No other scientist can make the statement.” [laughs] Duh.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: “The four humans–” which I’d love to know what’s going on here. “The four humans who have seen this rare specimen can consider themselves fortunate.” We learn nothing else by the way about the four humans, but he is one of them, for sure.

Christine: Well, yeah, so I assume it’s the two kids and then Larry, or whatever.

Em: Oh! Okay, you’re totally– Okay, see? You o– You obviously come from Quattlebaum blood.

Christine: Yeah, that’s not good. That’s not good. I should’ve kept my mouth shut.

Em: “I have never seen but two of them myself.” So I guess he has seen a Foopen– Foopengerkle.

Christine: Two of them?

Em: Uh, “I have told my grandchildren, but they don’t believe me.” [scoffs] Well, I don’t blame them.

Christine: Hmm. That’s probably like the 16th made-up story you told them in the n– last week.

Em: Here’s another reason for why they are such a rarity. This is another quote. “Public opinion was against them. This was unjust. It is true they were big, ugly, unnecessary, and contributed nothing to progress. They were also stupid.”

Christine: What?

Em: “But there are people who say the same things about me. Culture isn’t everything.”

[laughs]

Christine: Wait, is that supposed to make that stupid snake feel better? ’Cause that was really fucking rude.

Em: [laughs] Can you imagine if a Foopengerkle can actually also read English? Like he’s gonna be pissed.

Christine: Like what? He’s gonna be so upset. I feel like to–

Em: I like–

Christine: To be like, to be like, “Oh, don’t w– Like you’re a fucking moron, but don’t worry. Some people say that about me too.” What? So? That doesn’t make me feel better.

Em: If you read a, a newspaper article about yourself, which word would hurt your feelings the most? Big, ugly, unnecessary, contributing nothing, or stupid? [laughs]

Christine: [laughs] Oh wow! Let’s take–

Em: It’s like he covered every corner of the Earth there.

Christine: I think unnecessary ’cause it’s like, what does that mean?

Em: That hurts.

Christine: You’re just gonna like get rid of me? [laughs] Like, what do you mean unnecessary?

Em: Yeah, unnecessary. It’s like oh, if I, uh– You know.

Christine: Or contributing nothing, I think, is probably the hard– to me, contributing nothing, I’d be like, “Seriously? Fucking seriously?” And then I have a sna– and then I’d snap. That’s when I would snap. Yeah. In case you’re wondering.

Em: [laughs] The one thing they didn’t mention is that you’re fucking mean if you need to stand up for yourself. You can– You could tussle if you needed to.

Christine: Yeah, back the fuck off! I’m no Herken-Derkle, but I will ruin you.

Em: Yeah, they, they didn’t mention how– [laughs] They, they did not mention how tough you are.

Christine: I will passive-aggressively make your life a living hell.

Em: Now, this is where we know that Sinkhole Sam is Sinkhole Samuel and not Sinkhole Samantha.

Christine: Oh! [laughs]

Em: Because, uh, basically he’s saying that oh, all Foopengerkles, fun fact, as the, you know, local expert on Foopengerkles.

Christine: Right.

Em: There are no female Foopengerkles. There’s only mal– males.

Christine: Wow!

Em: So, that’s, that’s– So with that in context, this is another quote from this newspaper article. “During mating season, he just sat around–“ He’s talking about why– about Sinkhole Sam.

Christine: Uh-huh.

Em: “During mating season, he just sat around, feeling lonesome and sorry for himself, but he did not know why. He was terribly dumb.” Calling him stupid again.

Christine: What in the w–? “Terribly dumb”? He’s just horny!

Em: Uh, this is also– He’s mentioned at this point that not only are they all females, but none of them are homosexual. None of them are attracted to males, so they’re gonna be extinct. It’s their fault because they don’t wanna mate with each other.

Christine: They– Well, if they were h– attracted to other male, they pro– presumably also wouldn’t reproduce– but maybe, maybe it’s a different bio– bi– biology, yeah.

Em: I don’t know how– I don’t know the reproductive organs of a Foopengerkle.

Christine: Well, who am I to say? Right.

Em: Yeah, who’s to say at all. Maybe they’re like, uh, seahorses or something, and everything’s kind of in reverse. I don’t know.

Christine: That’s a good point. I also feel like, you know, with my earthworm theory, you cut them in half, maybe there’s two now.

Em: Oh! See, okay, anything’s possible with a Foopengerkle.

Christine: That’s what I’m saying.

Em: He says, uh, “He was feeling–“

Christine: And I’ve always said that. [laughs]

Em: I’ve al– [laughs] I’ve always said that. Uh, “He was feeling lonesome and sorry for himself. He did not know why. He was terribly dumb. Just to kill time, he began burrowing holes in the bottoms of the ponds.”

Christine: [laughs] To kill time? He’s like, “I’m so fucking bored in the woods.” This–

Em: He’s–

Christine: Okay, this has to be a smart snake, because I don’t think snakes who are normal snakes get bored like with their lives. Like they are just snakes. You’re being so weird. This guy’s being so fucking weird about this snake.

Em: [laughs] I li– I like how he’s like he’s clearly not one of those like sky fucking dragons where he just like so–

Christine: Oh, right! Where they’re fucking in the sky, yeah.

Em: He’s– “There’s nothing for me to do.”

Christine: Also why is he so obsessed with how these thing, these things he’s inventing are making love? It’s upsetting me.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: It’s upsetting me deeply.

Em: I– And the fact– Yeah. Homosexuality did not need to be brought into this. I don’t know why.

Christine: And it’s like, a– And it’s like, for what, right? Like what are you even trying to prove here, buddy? They’re all just horny, and they, they can’t, they can’t get it up for each other.

Em: He– Yeah, this feels a little like a, like a, a think piece that he should have kept to himself. Maybe brought to a therapist, a projection example.

Christine: That’s ex– 100%. Maybe Karl Jung would have a lot to say about this, I think.

Em: “Just to kill time, he began borrowing– burrowing holes in the bottoms of the ponds. He lived in–“ Oh, “He lived there, deeper and deeper, until at last he was so far down it didn’t seem worth the bother to come back up. Thus he became extinct.” So basically, he was straight and couldn’t find any women to bang, and so he went–

Christine: Aww.

Em: “I’m just gonna go dig into a fucking gr– into the ground.” And then eventually, he looked up, and he saw how far away the hole back to the surface was, and he went, “It’s not worth it.” And then he went extinct.

Christine: “I might as well die.” [laughs]

Em: Yeah. [laughs]

Christine: What the–? “I’m so horny I’ll die in this hole, okay? I can’t make it.”

Em: And that is the 4B movement, everybody. That is a–

[laughs]

Christine: And that is what we’re talking about! It’s 2025. Let’s get it started. Oh my god, that is insane.

Em: If there’s, if there’s a man you hate, just tell him– give him a shovel and then tell him to just go dig until he’s so– he’s actually just so dehydrated he doesn’t know how to be horny anymore, and he just stays there.

Christine: It’s not even worth coming back up. Yeah. That’s dark and strange.

Em: Um. One more quote for you is why we shouldn’t be scared of the Foopengerkles. But then–

Christine: Oh, well I’m not ’cause he’s fucking in a hole extinct. But okay, go on, guy.

Em: Here’s the reason why we shouldn’t be scared. But then, here’s – in the same breath – the reason why we should be scared of the Foopengerkle.

Christine: Uh-huh. Uh-huh, I can’t wait for this.

Em: And why we should be scared of Sinkhole Sam. “Foopengerkles are vegetarian and quite harmless. However, visitors to The Big Sinkhole area are urged to proceed with utmost caution. He obviously does not realize he is extinct” because he’s– he still exists.

Christine: Wait. [laughs] What? This is becoming–

Em: Let me know when your brain is done breaking.

Christine: This is com– This is becoming really–

Em: This feels like QAnon. This feels like I’ve–

Christine: This feels untenable. Yeah, like there’s not a single thread that links to any logic. It just links to itself, and it’s like, “Wait a minute.” It’s just free-floating nonsense.

Em: Well, remember, he said Foopengerkles are extinct. In fact, I, I might have missed this part earlier. He literally said they are the “most extinct species like ever.”

Christine: Oh! Oh, I did not hear that.

Em: He, he said– His exact– No, I didn’t– I forgot to write it, but he said literally the phrase: “They are the extinctest.”

Christine: [laughs]

Em: “Extinctest.”

Christine: And you’re talking in comparison to dodo birds? Wow.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: That’s gotta be– And velociraptors? I mean, alright.

Em: I– And all the pterodactyls in Christine’s tummy that react to my butterflies?

Christine: Literally, they’re everywhere. How dare you? But, okay. Alright. “The most extinct.” Sure, go for it.

Em: So he called them the “extinctest,” but also they– Even though they are so extinct, uh, he, he’s– because– Okay. It’s just like a double fuck you ’cause–

Christine: I can’t wait for this.

Em: One, they’re so extinct. Also, you’re so stupid you forgot to join your brethren who are extinct. You know?

Christine: Oh, he’s just do dumb he even forgot he was extinct. Oh.

Em: He forgot to die. He’s so stupid that he forgot to die with the rest of them.

Christine: This is like really feels like Megan is bullying me in 7th grade all over again. Like, “You’re so s–“

Em: [laughs] “You’re so dumb that you forgot to die like everyone else.”

Christine: “You’re so stupid that you’re dead that– but you don’t even know it.” What?

Em: Yeah. [laughs]

Christine: What an insane– What is happening here? This feels like they’re just bullying the shit out of nobody. Like he’s just getting this out of his system for some weird reason. I don’t know.

Em: You know the Foopengerkle’s family saw this newspaper article, and they went, “We have to hide this one from him. He can’t know that he got mentioned.”

Christine: “Yeah, this one’s actually wor– Yeah, we submitted it!”

Em: [laughs] “This one’s bad. This one’s bad.”

Christine: “Yeah, we submitted it to the local paper. Don’t worry. Must have got lost in the mail.”

Em: [laughs]

Christine: What the fuck?

Em: So– But also that he’s vegetarian. So people shouldn’t be worried because if he’s vegetarian, he’s not gonna eat people. But–

Christine: Okay, that’s nice.

Em: –he’s supposed to be extinct. He’s so stupid he forgot to be extinct. And since he’s that stupid, he might have also forgotten that he’s a vegetarian, so now you should be scared.

Christine: [laughs] Oh-ho-ho, no!

Em: Because he might– So now it just sounds like we’re making fun of like an Alzheimer’s patient or something.

Christine: Yeah, it’s like he forgot that he’s a vegetarian?

Em: Like now it just sounds like he’s got like– like he’s just got memory loss problems. Yeah.

Christine: Yeah, like I don’t think this is stupidity anymore. Like somebody needs to help this thing.

Em: This sounds like a TBI or something, yeah.

Christine: Yes! A– From hitting his head in that hole– that floor of the–

Em: He was so horny he hit his head on the ground, and now he can’t remember that he’s supposed to be dead. [laughs]

Christine: He went so far into the middle of the earth that he melted his brain in the, in the cor– in the magma, and now, he forgot he’s extinct, that idiot. Why is he so mean to this poor thing? This poor snake.

Em: And the best part is that he’s been quoted saying, “He was terribly dumb.” It’s like, “You’re terribly dumb. You’re terribly dumb.”

Christine: You’re ve– You’re terribly cruel, guy.

Em: Uh, he lived deeper– Okay. So, uh– Oh, yeah. “He may also have forgotten that he’s supposed to be strictly vegetarian.” Oh, this is the final quote: “There remai–“

Christine: Okay.

Em: “There remains the problem of what to do about this extraneous monster. My advice is: nothing. Now that the country has gone Republican, maybe he will go away.” Okay, so he’s a Democrat.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: So, like now I’m back on board. So. [laughs]

Christine: Wait, so he’s smart enough to ha– to align with a political party but not to remember what he’s supposed to eat for breakfast? [laughs] What is going on with this goddamn creature?

Em: [laughs]

Christine: I can’t. This is like ins– deeply insane.

Em: Anyway, that is, uh, that is all the work– the, the true work of Ernest Dewey but written as if he was being told this information by fucking Quattlebaum or whoever it was, so. [applause]

Christine: [laughs] Em! That was just [applause] remarkable. Remarkable is what it was. Um.

Em: So, he– He puts out this newspaper article saying all of those things verbatim. Some people believe it. Some people go, “Holy shit. Sinkhole Sam is obviously a Foopengerkle and like–“

Christine: “And he’s so fucking dumb, you guys.” And it’s like, “Oh, that’s–“

Em: “He’s so dumb we could probably get away with standing next to him and getting a picture, and he wouldn’t even notice.”

Christine: Awkward. Ohh.

Em: “But also, he might eat us alive.”

Christine: Oh, god. Oh, no.

Em: So.

Christine: I do kind of like the idea, though, that he like created a fake sort of harmless monster that almost distracts people from like a real– Like, it’s not like, “Oh, there are wild boars in the woods. Don’t go near them.” And people are like, “Let’s go check it out.” Like at least this is fake, and so people who go to look for it like aren’t really gonna get harmed. Although, then again, there are probably real snakes and spiders and stuff in the woods. Hm.

Em: Mm. I do like– I, I like where you’re heading, but I, I like it with a political spin. It’s like, “Oh, don’t think about what Sleepy Joe is up to, think about this fucking Democrat over here who’s a vegetarian and can’t think straight.”

Christine: “This fuckin’– He’s too dumb to eat a cheeseburger, this fucking guy.” Like what?

Em: “Do you want to vote like a Floopgengerkle? I don’t think so. MAGA. MAGA.” You know?

Christine: [laughs] Yeah, Flo– Floopgengerkles. Do your research, everybody. These guys are trouble.

Em: I don’t know why Kamala Harris didn’t, um, add Sinkhole Sam to her campaign. You know what I mean? Like–

Christine: It’s actually pretty– Uh, I’ve heard actually some really serious rumors about that. Like it was supposed to happen, and then like they had a– They just like– It was a whole– Elon Musk was a part of it.

Em: Maybe he’ll be like s– Sinkhole Sam, Speaker of the House. I mean, anything’s possible at this point.

Christine: Oh, Speaker. He has a big mouth.

Em: Yeah. That’s what I’m saying. See?

Christine: But he can’t hear, right? He doesn’t have ears. I guess as the Speaker of the House you don’t need ears.

Em: Nah, are people paying him to listen to people? I don’t know.

Christine: That’s a good point. [laughs]

Em: I don’t know. Anyway.

Christine: That’s beautiful.

Em: I’ll– Anyway, just expect 2028, Sinkhole Sam will be on the ticket. Just sayin’.

Christine: I’m in love. I love it. Sinkhole Sam, let’s get it going.

Em: Floopgengerkles 2028.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: So, uh, after this newspaper article came out, you and I would have hopefully read that and gone, “This is the funniest thing I’ve ever seen in my life. We’re framing it because it’s so funny and stupid and terribly dumb.” End quote.

Christine: Yes.

Em: But, um, some people were like–

Christine: “Terribly dumb.” [laughs]

Em: “Oh, fuck. Sinkhole Sam is here to stay.” So, although it was supposed to be satirical, many people fell for it. It created a media stir. Peo– Papers were covering it all over. And when I say papers were covering it, there– It was this one article that, um, Ernest Dewey did.

Christine: Right. [laughs]

Em: Yup. And then there was, uh, another article that came out a little bit later, and that one was all over. Like when you go to newspapers.com and type in “Sinkhole Sam,” it’s the same article over and over but in every newspaper at the time.

Christine: Oh! Oh, oh, oh. So it just got disseminated?

Em: So, [unintelligible] just copy and pasted.

Christine: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Em: But they were all covering Sinkhole Sam. So everyone knew about this thing. The– These other papers got additional descriptions from witnesses saying that he was definitely 15 feet long. He had a fluted tail. He had a long fin on his back. And he had a quote, “non-snakelike grin.” What?

Christine: Whoa!

Em: What is a snake-like grin?

Christine: So are his teeth sharp or not? ’Cause I thought sh– his teeth were sharp, and that’s a snake, right? They have fangs. Why–? Hm.

Em: What is a snake– What– Wha– how should a snake grin or not grin? I would like to know the difference.

Christine: Like this. [tilts her head down slightly, grins widely while staring at the screen]

Em: Oh, fuck. Yeah. No, not that.

Christine: [laughs] Is it that or– You said, “How should they or should they not?” So you can decide whichever one to label that one that I just did.

Em: Okay, do a non-snakelike grin.

Christine: Okay. [grins while baring her teeth and opening her eyes widely]

Em: Oh, see, that is also frightening. But that, that does pair up with the rest of it.

Christine: And this is a snake-like. [tilts her head down slightly, grins widely while staring at the screen]

Em: [laughs] That’s a snake-like. It’s also a Leona-like grin.

Christine: [laughs] It’s actually like really upsetting, sorry.

Em: Uh, not– So because so many papers were talking about this, many people came into town. Of course, it did its tourist attraction thing. It had its little moment. And everyone was hoping to see Sinkhole Sam. Locals remember lines and lines of cars parking themselves along the lake with their windows up and doors locked, by the way, in case Sinkhole Sam could get into their car.

Christine: [laughs] They were like, “We’re not that stupid. We’re gonna stay safe in here.”

Em: [laughs] And there would just be lines of cars driving into town just to park at the surface of the lake to see if they might spot Sinkhole Same.

Christine: And let me guess, that fucking guy. What’s his name again? The, the journalist guy?

Em: Ernest Dewey.

Christine: Is he there with a mustache o– a fake mustache on, and he’s like selling like sodas and postcards?

Em: He should have been.

Christine: ’Cause I feel like he’s created this whole situation.

Em: I s– I saw– If you really– If he wanted to be a, an entrepreneur, he should have been out there with a– with T-shirts or something.

Christine: Right? Feels like it should be.

Em: There’s no– You don’t get to stir the pot like that and then– and also not try to take a reward from it. You know? If you’re that person.

Christine: S-simply unacceptable. You need to play the game all the way through to the end.

Em: Well, by the 19– by the end of the 1950s, reports had slowly faded away because no one had seen Sinkhole Sam for there to be a new article written about him.

Christine: Oh, no.

Em: And many thought Sinkhole Sam, if he was real, had either found a new home or passed away, but he was not here anymore. So.

Christine: [laughs] He finally became ex– He finally realized he’s supposed to be extinct.

Em: He read that newspaper article and really did just keep digging himself further and further into Earth’s crust until he couldn’t find his way out.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: Um, just out of shame, he died.

Christine: Oh, no.

Em: So. However, a few years l– a few years later, there were reports of another large snake-like creature not too far from the lake. It was actually at the nearby lake 50 miles away called Kingman State Lake.

Christine: Oh.

Em: So, some people the theory, the theory about Sinkhole Sam is that, “Oh, well, it lives underwater under some sort of, uh, cavern system under the water.”

Christine: Like a trib– like took a little cavern into the other lake.

Em: Yeah. That’s what they’re thinking, but the, the, uh, way that would be debunked is that this lake, Kingman State Lake, is manmade, so it wouldn’t have been connected to any tunnel system underneath.

Christine: Oh, but he likes to dig!

Em: Oh, you’re right. He would have just found his own entry point. Yeah.

Christine: Makes his own little sinkhole ’cause he’s so bored and horny. [laughs]

Em: Well. [laughs] So, uh, I think you’re on the side of the believers then, or they would at least take your point and run with it. And–

Christine: [laughs] I– You know what? It’s not even that. It’s just that I’m the new Mr. Dewey, whatever his name is. I’m just the new–

Em: [laughs] Like, well, obviously.

Christine: I’m just here to fill in the blanks with any and all logic. How reasonable it is is not the point.

Em: Oh, no, no, no. Uh, Kingman State Lake, uh, is also the site of other cryptid sightings. There’s been like Mothman sightings and Bigfoot sightings. So it’s– I guess it’s normal there for weird shit to be happening, so it makes sense that they would just bring–

Christine: [laughs] It’s normal.

Em: They would just bring this other cryptid over there and say Sinkhole Sam is part of the gang.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Basically, whatever they’re seeing at this lake, it’s also a huge fucking snake and big enough that witnesses are scared of it. One witness was driving their truck or their tractor, and to, uh, to describe how big this snake was, it was afraid to drive over the tractor or it would have damaged the, the tractor or the truck. So it’s like driving over a log, like a big ass log.

Christine: Oh my god! Okay.

Em: Um, panic rose during these sightings, especially when there were also livestock attacks in the area, including calves literally being dragged into the lake by something.

Christine: Okay. Well. that’s terrible.

Em: Sad. Terrible and sad.

Christine: Mm.

Em: If it was Sinkhole Sam, he is now something to really be feared. He obviously did, in fact, forget he’s not supposed to be, um, anything but vegetarian.

Christine: Right? Like his– H-he’s on Whole30, uh, or something. Yeah.

Em: [laughs] He’s like, “I’m trying it all again, and we’ll see where we end up.”

Christine: He’s like, “I’m on keto diet. Don’t worry about it. No carbs for me.”

Em: [laughs] Well, soon the town was so freaked out because they had heard like 50 miles away there was that Sinkhole Sam, and now we have livestock attacks and, uh, we’re all really scared. There’s this big fucking thing we can’t even drive our truck over if we wanted to. There was one story of a guy riding his horse, and then the horse tripped over the snake, which like–

Christine: [high-pitched] Eugh!

Em: –either it’s a big ass snake or it’s a klutzy horse. But either way, imagine falling, and now you have to be face-to-face with this snake. And your horse is no help.

Christine: [laughs] The horse is just like, “Oops!”

Em: Now you’re both kinda galloping away.

Christine: This fucking s– horse trip on a snake. These, these are the dumbest animals I’ve ever heard of.

[laughs]

Em: Uh, so the town was freaked out. They decide to organize a monster hunt for this creature.

Christine: Oh god. This never goes well.

Em: Of course, of course they end up empty-handed, but they did find snakes. They were just snakes that they already knew were native to the area.

Christine: Oh god.

Em: Of the snakes, uh, that they found, they thought like, “What’s the most massive snake that’s native to this area that maybe– Maybe that’s Sinkhole Sam, and we’ve just been misidentifying it this whole time.”

Christine: Oh, I see. Okay.

Em: And in this area, the most likely massive snake Sinkhole Sam could’ve been is a gopher snake, which are usually about 7.5 feet long which is still only half the size of what people claim Sinkhole Sam is.

Christine: That’s so illegal. That should be illegal.

Em: A, a se– a 7 foot snake?

Christine: Absolutely.

Em: How about a– A 7 inch snake is too long for me. Um.

Christine: I would like let that one exist away from me.

Em: Yeah, that one–

Christine: But 7.5 feet is not gonna do it for me, thank you.

Em: –with his stupid little grin, snake grin, or whatever.

Christine: Yeah, I don’t like that those are even part of the, the atmosphere, but, but I get it. I’m just gonna stay out of their way.

Em: Anything that wriggles, slithers, doesn’t have like, uh, it’s like– the furry four limbs with a tail, I don’t want it near me. I, as you said, I’m okay with a snake existing away from me.

Christine: Existing. Yeah.

Em: But, uh, but only if it’s a certain size.

Christine: You were probably here first snake, I get it. But, please.

Em: But 7.5 feet – I don’t care where on Earth you are, please don’t be here anymore.

Christine: Please stay there.

Em: I, I sound like fucking Quattlebaum. I’m like, “How ‘bout you don’t exist, bitch?” You know?

Christine: “How about you’re too stupid to realize it?” [laughs] Like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Em: “How ‘bout I bully you to death?”

[laughs]

Christine: “How about I just start shitting all over you, you last of your surviving– you last survivor of your entire species, you lonely snake?”

Em: “Everyone else is dead. You might as well join them.” Like–

Christine: Yeah, what the fuck? This guy is such an asshole the more I think about it.

Em: I should have stated at the beginning that this episode is a trigger warning to any snakes who are in the room with you listening.

Christine: [laughs] Aw.

Em: Um, if you are a snake owner, please put earmuffs on your snake for this episode.

Christine: That’s rough. Yeah, I agree.

Em: Uh, yeah. But so, they thought maybe it’s a gopher snake. It would just have to be a gopher snake that’s double the size of a gopher snake.

Christine: Yeah, sure, sure, sure.

Em: And, and then we’re at the beginnings of Sinkhole Sam. But, uh, another thought is people thought that maybe they were witnessing a bigger snake than a gopher snake that, um, usually wouldn’t be known to the area. Like so like a boa constrictor or something.

Christine: Oh, so like it came from somewhere else, sort of.

Em: Yeah, like, uh, like an exotic pet owner released it in the wild.

Christine: Gotcha.

Em: So, that was another thought of like, “Well, nothing here is big enough. But maybe it is a bigger thing that circumstantially happened to be here.”

Christine: Oh-kay.

Em: But then, remember Sinkhole Sam doesn’t have a fucking face. So like h– coul– that would be a weird thing to–

Christine: Yeah…

Em: But maybe the description’s wrong. I don’t know. Maybe it was just covered in mud on its face, and no one got any details.

Christine: Yeah, maybe they just didn’t look close enough at his face, and he just was smiling at them.

Em: Yeah. Maybe you should get closer to a python and tell me how it looks, and then tell me what you think.

[laughs]

Christine: “Let me fi– Let me just find his ears real quick. Hold on.”

[laughs]

Em: So, uh–

Christine: “There’s– They gotta be in here somewhere.” Oh my god.

Em: Well, people were also saying, “Well, if it’s just a random sinkhole that Sinkhole Sam lives in, how would he have even gotten in there?”

Christine: Ugh.

Em: But then some people are saying the area floods a lot, so maybe he just fell in and never left. I mean, there’s, there’s a lot of, um, scoffers.

Christine: [laughs] He fell in. He’s so stupid.

Em: He kinda plopped in, and he never knew how to get out ’cause he’s stupid.

Christine: He’s, again, just far too dumb for anything to live on this planet.

Em: Other theories are that he’s a prehistoric water creature who lives in an underground cave system like I told you.

Christine: That seems right.

Em: People al– al– People also think it could be a giant unidentified amphibian that survives its hibernations by burrowing in the mud.

Christine: ‘Kay.

Em: People also think it could be just a bigass eel or catfish or water snake or log. It’s just obscenely fucking large.

Christine: Hm.

Em: People also think it could be like an alien or an experiment gone wrong. Of course, I love those.

Christine: Oh, yeah. Always.

Em: People think maybe it’s just not true, and those two little Mennonite boys were fucking liars.

Christine: [laughs] No! Two little boys? With guns? They couldn’t lie.

Em: [laughs] Uh, well, some, some think that. I– That would have been my first guess of like, “Oh, they heard about some giant fish, and they wanted to be cool at school, so they just said that they saw a fish.”

Christine: Totally.

Em: “Or a snake.” Um, but Albert’s family– Once he was an adult and like the media frenzy had happened, and he was known– his family was known for being attached to this story.

Christine: Right.

Em: Apparently, they were all weirdly ashamed and embarrassed of being associated with this story.

Christine: What? Well, that’s sad.

Em: Um, his family later, in an interview, was like, “We want nothing to do with this. It has to be real because we don’t like this.” Um, as for George, the other boy that was with Albert, his family said George might have actually been pranking everyone after all because growing up he was known as the “town rogue.” Please give me that job.

Christine: I was gonna say–

Em: Please give me that job. [laughs]

Christine: Ding-ding-ding. Finally, a title I think we’re worthy of.

Em: I will make everyone so proud.

Christine: Thank god we live in different towns.

Em: I, uh– Look, I’d–

Christine: Or we’d be battling for that title.

Em: Oh, we would be constantly like– Each, each month we’d be a different employee of the month. We’d be in cahoots.

Christine: Yeah, we’d have to battle it– Yes, month– Yes, yes. We’d have to sh– custo– custody share the title. Yeah.

Em: Yeah, we’d each have to have the same plaque and just each have one hand touching it.

Christine: Town rogue is excellent stuff.

Em: But like, okay, I knew about town crier. That was already my dream job.

Christine: Yeah, you are already good at that. For sure, for sure. But this you’d be good at too.

Em: My backup plan was jester.

Christine: Right.

Em: And now, town rogue I think steals jester territory.

Christine: Definitely. I think it would at least be one or two. Town rogue seems good.

Em: I– I would love– I don’t even know what goes into that, but I would figure it out on day one. I’d be so fucking good.

Christine: I almost feel like town crier and town rogue like also, almost go hand-in-hand, you know? It’s like they could like influence each other.

Em: Oh, yeah.

Christine: Like, you could be the town crier but then like also be a little rogue-ish. You know?

Em: You could also like– Yeah, you could do collaborations with each other.

Christine: Totally.

Em: You could say like, “Oh, I know this information. Now, you go fucking nuts around town with it.” Or, uh, “Hey, since you’re the town crier, can you like do some PR for me? ‘Cause I’m about to do some real rogue shit, and I’d really like people to know about that. Let’s market.”

Christine: Yeah. Right, right. “I want you to get the exclusive scoop, you know?”

Em: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Christine: “When I– And I’d also like to tell you about how horny these snakes are.”

Em: [laughs]

Christine: “And I think you should write about it in the town newsletter.” “No, Sam, stop telling me–“ Oh, Sam’s the snake Sam.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: “Stop telling me how horny the snake is. We’re not gonna write about it. It’s not news.”

Em: Can you imagine– I know we’re talking about the town rogue right now. Can you imagine if there was a town crier in this area of Kansas who found out about a horny Floopgengerkle who just wanted to–

Christine: Imagine.

Em: –cr– probably cry his eyes out because every other journalist was so cruel to him.

Christine: That’s finally the cru– That’s the finally the town that the town crier was made for. He was like, “I’ve finally found my home.”

Em: It’s– It’s– Oh my god. It’s– It just sounds too delicious.

Christine: Finally, something to talk about. Something interesting.

Em: I mean, if you hear about a Floopgengerkle and your whole job is town crier, you’re like, “This is– I’m never getting a moment like this. This is my big break.”

Christine: Like for real. What else would you be doing?

Em: Uh, other theories– Well, they actually had like one of the most famous cryptozoologists ever – his name is Loren Coleman – they had him weigh in on like, “What do you think Sinkhole Sam is?” And he thought it sounded a lot like a Mongolian Death Worm. But–

Christine: [gasps] Those are scary.

Em: –Mongolian Death Worms– They are often like the Gobi Desert, so we’re not near that.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: Um, they spit acid, which Sinkhole Sam has not done yet.

Christine: Cool.

Em: And they’re only like 5 feet long, which is a third of what we think Sinkhole Sam was. So.

Christine: Lame!

Em: I feel like Loren Coleman was just like over it immediately. He’s like, “I dunno. Here’s a lead. Just leave me alone.” So, um, that’s what it felt like.

Christine: Yes.

Em: But people also think it could be some sort of turtle who has lost its shell because in–

Christine: Oh noo.

Em: –in around 1912, 1913, there were newspapers in the exact same area before there were ever any stories about Sinkhole Sam. Newspapers were warning Lake Inman locals about a turtle creature that was the size of a c–clawfoot bathtub.

Christine: What?

Em: That’s a big ass turtle. And so if you–

Christine: That’s huge!

Em: If, for some reason, this myth– mythical thing could survive without its shell, I mean, that looks like a big fucking snake, right?

Christine: I g– I guess? But no, but turtles– Their shell is like part of their skeleton.

Em: Like part of them, right?

Christine: Yeah.

Em: I don’t know. I’m, I’m just reporting the news, bro. I don’t know.

Christine: The news, that’s a stretch. Yeah.

Em: Looks like a turtle without its shell. Or maybe its– maybe its shell is invisible. I don’t know. We have to ask the Floopgengerkles. I don’t fucking know.

Christine: I’ll ask him.

Em: Um, speaking of news, the– at the end of the day, people think the thing that really brought this story to, to anybody– for it to be popular enough to become a cryptid is Ernest Dewey’s piece. Um, because he created the frenzy, and since a lot of people in the 1950s only got their information from newspapers–

Christine: [laughs]

Em: –maybe the mob panic was the real monster after all.

Christine: Woww.

Em: [airhorn sounds]

Christine: Take a look in the mirror, people.

Em: And that is Sinkhole Sam.

Christine: Wow, that’s powerful. At the end, they all look into the sinkhole, and they see the reflection of them and their pitchforks.

Em: [laughs] Wow, that’s beautiful. Uh, what do you think?

Christine: And they are like, “We were the horny idiots all along.”

Em: You know [applause].

Christine: [laughs] The end.

Em: Now is that, is that one, two, three, four, or five holes worth of a reading?

Christine: I think I’d give a six if I could. You know what I mean? I think that is top tier stuff.

Em: Someone ask Karen Kilgariff please.

Christine: Someone ask Karen Kilgariff if she wants anything to do with us. Probably not–

Em: Probably not.

Christine: –but, uh, I will continue to, um–

Em: Dream?

Christine: –be a– I will continue to dream, and I will be continue to, um, be a fan of her Sinkhole Saturdays. Um, apparently, they’re on TikTok now. Well, good job, Em! That was really a wild one. And a Floopgengerkle is something that will probably– I– You know what? And I feel like that’s– I– We– He deserves a lot of credit for that term because I feel like there are r– It’s rare to find terms that are like made up but stick in your head.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Like Floopgengerkle I’m like– I, I won’t forget that. I– It sticks.

Em: That’s something that like the second Leona hears that, she’s saying it on the playground.

Christine: “Floopgengerkle, Floopgengerkle!” It’s like all we’re gonna hear.

Em: “You’re a Floopgengerkle.”

Christine: So we have to– Oh, we have to be so careful, you guys. We have to be so careful around these little children. They will call you names like Floopgengerkle.

Em: If your child gets called a Floopgengerkle, just know it was– You’re only a few degrees from Leona because I will be teaching her that word soon.

Christine: Oh, right. She started it. [laughs] She’s the ultimate bully. No. Um, yeah, she started it. I’m–

Em: [laughs] No, me. I’m gonna teach the little 3-year-old what a Floopgengerkle is. No one will stand a chance after that.

Christine: Wait, that makes more sense. That’s right, yes. Uh, yes, yes, yes. And that’s the ultimate insult. And there you have it.

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Christine: Anyway, that’s all the news fit to print. Now I have a story for you. This is the story of Alison Botha.

Em: Mm.

Christine: And, uh, she was born in South Africa, and I’m about to do something really fun which is give you a pop quiz. [laughs]

Em: Augh! Okay.

Christine: Not a fun kind.

Em: Mm.

Christine: I mean, is there a fun kind? Maybe for people like me. But here is the pop quiz. So, Alison was born in September 22nd, 1967 in what used to be Port Elizabeth, but in 2021, this town in South Africa was renamed to the original Xhosa word. And, um, I’m gonna text it to you.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: And then–

Em: Is Xhosa the– Is it spelled “X-H-O-S-A”?

Christine: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Em: That’s the, uh– Oh, f– You want me to guess what that means?

Christine: How to say that.

Em: Oh, how to say that. I will not get it right. Um.

Christine: I mean, yeah. You won’t. But that’s the idea. I mean, I don’t think any of us would.

Em: [sighs] ’Cause it looks like– It looks like “Guh-kuh-bear-hah,” but, uh.

Christine: Actually, that’s pretty darn close.

Em: Is it really?

Christine: I mean, it’s like pretty close. It’s–

Em: “Guh-kuh-bear-ah”? “Guk-be-rah”? What?

Christine: So it’s– Well, I don’t know how to do the click. It starts with a click. [laughs]

Em: Okay.

Christine: [clicking tongue]

Em: Uh-huh.

Christine: Can’t do it. I tried all night. [clicks tongue again] Whatever. You say a like a “Q” sound, like a “kuh,” like a hard click sound as the, as the “Gg”–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: –or sorry, “Gq.” And then, it’s “be-cha.” [“ch” in the back of the throat, for example “l’chaim” in Hebrew] So, “Keh-be-cha.”

Em: Ohh. Okay.

Christine: [tries to click tongue] Click. “Keh-be-cha.” [laughs]

Em: You tried. You tried. It’s, it’s–

Christine: It’s so hard.

Em: It’s a muscle your mouth doesn’t have.

Christine: And this is–

Em: That’s okay.

Christine: So, this is the, uh, YouTube video I was watching, and it– I took a screenshot. This is the screen that I stopped at to try and figure it out. I was like cracking up ’cause I played it probably 400 times [laughs]. Uh, and then it’s like, “Don’t worry. We’ll explain it. “G” is fricative.” And I was like, “It’s what?”

Em: Fricative?

Christine: They’re like, “It’s fricative.” I’m like, “Can you stop saying that like I'm supposed to know what that means?” But apparently, it means “ch.”

Em: Ohh. I would have never know that. Alright.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: I just call that “popcorn sound” - “chh”. When you’ve got popcorn in your throat.

Christine: It sure sounds like it. But then, what is the clicking sound?

[attempting to make clicking sound]

Christine: “be-cha.”

Em: I would love to know how to do that little click, but I don’t know how to do it.

Christine: I know. I, I, I started to google it last night, and then I was like, “Wow. It is 1 am. Do I need to learn how to try and pronounce a new language right now? I don’t think so.”

Em: [laughs] I think you’re a– I think it’s appreciated and not expected.

Christine: And that’s– Thank you. That’s, that’s– I was like, “You know what? I’ve gone far enough to try and pronounce it. I think, um– I, I did my part.” So, that is where she grew up. But at the time, it was [in British accent] Port Elizabeth. So you know, it was easy for everybody to say, I guess, back then.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: For, for people who [laughs] who do not, um, speak Xhosa. But, okay. Here we go. Alison grew up there, and although she considered herself– Um, she was kind of like har– down– hard on herself. Um, she– I mean, a lot of us are. Like, she would say, “Oh, no. I’m not particularly athletic or academic.” Um, and she felt like she was really nerdy growing up. Um, but the people who knew her said she was very cheerful, kind, loyal, and had kind of a quiet confidence, was very good– a very good leader at school. Um, and as an adult, she became a very positive person who just loved her social life. She had a job who– where she really liked her colleagues.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: And, um, they had like a really fun time in the office, and she also had a big friend group outside of work and would spend a lot of her free time around town with friends. And that’s what she was doing in mid-December, 1994. She was 27-years-old, and Alison had spent a whole Saturday at the beach with her friend, Kim, and Kim’s two sons. Afterward, they all went to Kim’s house, and two more friends stopped by unexpectedly. And just remember, this is like a Saturday afternoon.

Em: Just chilling.

Christine: And by the way, mid-December is summer in, in, in South Africa.

Em: Oh.

Christine: To, to clarify why they’re at the beach. [laughs]

Em: Thank you for that. [laughs] Thank you.

Christine: So, they’re doing a– I was about to say, it’s just a beautiful summer day, and then I was like, I, I do have to clarify why I said mid-December, and we are in South Africa, Southern Hemisphere.

Em: Yeah, you don’t want to look like a Floopengerkle, you fucking idiot. [laughs] No.

Christine: I wouldn’t want to do that. I mean, the one thing I don’t want to look like, you know what I mean.

Em: I certainly understand.

Christine: Uh, call me anything else. Uh, but don’t call me a Floopengerkle.

Em: [laughs] Necessary and contributes to society.

Christine: [laughs] Yeah! Thank you. Um, so they went to Kim’s house afterward, and two more friends stopped by unexpectedly. And after spending the evening hanging out on Kim’s balcony, the whole group went to– back to Alison’s house to play board games over pizza and wine. I mean, this is like my dream.

Em: Sounds like a great day.

Christine: It was past– It does! It was past midnight when everyone left, and Alison gave Kim a ride home. So she’s like, “Okay, long day. Past midnight. Everybody out. Uh, okay. Kim, you gotta get back home to your boys. I’ll drive you.” So, she drives Kim home. And as she’s returning back to her own apartment, someone had taken the parking space she usually used right in front of her apartment, so she had to park further down the street. And it was this beautiful summer night, so Alison was like, “Whatever, I’ll just take the short walk,” and had her car windows rolled down, just enjoying the midnight air. And she had just parked a little farther down the road when, seemingly out of thin air, a man appeared beside her open window.

Em: [sighs] Nope. No, thank you.

Christine: He reached in and put a knife to her throat. He then said, “Move over, or I’ll kill you.”

Em: [gasps]

Christine: Alison did as he instructed, and the man climbed into the driver’s seat, started the car, and drove away from Alison’s neighborhood.

Em: [sighs]

Christine: As they made their way through town, passing crowds of people leaving clubs, even a police van– imagine that moment when you’re like, “Holy shit, please look over here.”

Em: Okay, I’ve had this, I’ve had this, um, dream for a long time. Sorry, I’m trying to fix the lighting ’cause my face is kinda glarey. Um, I’ve had this–

Christine: I don’t know about this. Do I?

Em: N– I don’t know. I’ve had this dream for a long time that if I ever– not that this would be foolproof, I’m sure it would not go the way I’d like it to. But in the dream, someone is hiding in the car, uh–

Christine: Wait, so this is an actual like nightmare you have?

Em: Yeah, an actual nightmare–

Christine: Oh, okay. Yeah.

Em: –where, um, I get in my car. Someone’s in the backseat and then is like threatening me. And I drive past a, a cop car, and in my dream, I like floor it because I’m trying to get pulled over, so that way–

Christine: [gasps] Ohh, I see. Yeah, you want their attention.

Em: Yeah, but I’m– I always– but then I never know how the dream ends, and I always wake up before. And I think it doesn’t turn out well for me ’cause I think they figure out what I’m up to.

Christine: You just drive into a pole. [laughs]

Em: It was something like that, yeah. Anyway, uh.

Christine: Well, that’s scary. That’s– And y– it’s a recurring dream? That’s kind of alarming. Um.

Em: Yeah, so I, uh, th–this is like actually some– a, a, a panicky event for me.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: I’m sure it’s much more panicky for fucking her. I don’t know what I’m saying.

Christine: For a real instance, but yeah. No, that’s scary. And I, I always wonder like, what is the advice in that scenario? Like I wonder if you’re meant to just lay on the hor– Oh, well, she’s not driving. That’s the problem. She’s in the passenger seat, so.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: There’s not much she can do.

Em: There’s nothing you can do. You just– It– You’re– It’s just–

Christine: Um, you– and he’s holding a knife to you, you can’t very well like lean over and turn the steering wheel, you know.

Em: I don’t know.

Christine: Um, yeah. That’s really scary. So, they’re making their through town, [laughs] walking fast, faces– [laughs]

Em: [laughs] Christine.

Christine: I’m sorry. It’s just an intrusive thought again. Uh, okay. So, they’re making their way through town, and they’re passing these crowds of people leaving clubs, a police van, just like a busy town. She considered trying to jump out of the car and make a scene, but the guy had his knife.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: And she had like sort of detached, as we can probably understand, like from the situation and almost like pulled out of, of herself and felt dissociated. And so she couldn’t even find it in herself to feel afraid because she was so shocked and like, like taken aback.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Like she was still reeling from the shock of it. And so she had to keep her fear and panic at bay as well, so she could think straight. And she kept thinking, “Well, this can’t be really happening to me.” I mean, she was just hanging out with her friends like half an hour ago. And now she’s like being held at knifepoint in her, in her own car.

Em: [sighs]

Christine: So she focuses on staying calm while the man initiated shockingly casual small talk and mentioned that he knew which apartment Alison lived in as if he’d been watching her for a while before he abducted her.

Em: Oh… Forget it. Oh my god.

Christine: The man told her his name was Clinton, and Alison said, “My name is Susan,” because she didn’t want to give away her own name. So she’s thinking fast.

Em: Obviously. Good girl.

Christine: Clinton told Alison he wouldn’t hurt her. He just needed to use her car for an hour to track down a guy who stole his TV and owed him money. And she said was too afraid to believe the worst, so she almost just like let herself believe that ’cause it was like best-case scenario.

Em: Yeah. Sure.

Christine: And she just kept telling herself, “You know what? He’ll release you like he promised.” She would call Kim, and Kim would come, you know, call the police, and it’d all be okay. But the man continued through town, clearly irritated because he couldn’t find the guy he was looking for. And eventually, he pulls over to pick up another guy, and he introduces this guy as Theuns. Now, he said that Theuns spoke Afrikaans and not much English. So, Theuns got in the car and asked Clinton for a cigarette. And now, Alison is like, “Okay. I’m now in the car with two strange men.”

Em: Yeah. Immediately extra fear.

Christine: Extra fear. And as Clinton asked for a cigarette, Alison says, “Oh, I’ll have one too.” And she smoked with them as they passed the last few streetlights out of town. And with the town behind them, Alison felt fear suddenly for the first time since Clinton first appeared beside her car. It was like suddenly the shock wore off.

Em: Mm.

Christine: And they were driving out of town. I mean, I– the way I imagine it is like you’re driving out of the hustle and bustle into the dark desert area, you know.

Em: Mm-hmm. It’s getting more secluded. There’s– You’re overpowered.

Christine: More secluded.

Em: You don’t know the area.

Christine: And suddenly, it’s like that fear floods in. And–

Em: And also it’s that first thought probably of like, “Oh–“ C– I know I immediately would find a reason to like be mad at myself, and I would feel so guilty of like, “Oh, I should have done something.”

Christine: Like, “I did it wrong.”

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Yeah, totally. And s–

Em: Which like, all you’re doing is surviving. That’s the whole fucking point. You’re surviving. You’re doing what you gotta do.

Christine: Surviving. Exactly. So she’s like– Fear suddenly strikes her, and she’s like, “Okay, this might not be going the way that he had initially told me. He was probably lying.” She recognized they were heading for the coast, and Clinton eventually pulled into an alcove by the beach. He parked the car in the sand, but it was too far from the road for any passersby to see. And Alison just turned and looked at him and said, “What now?”

Em: [sighs]

Christine: And Clinton told her that he planned to rape her, and he asked her if she was going to fight him. After a long silence, she said, “No.” So Theuns crouched in the sand outside the car, smoking a cigarette, while Clinton raped Alison. Then he climbed back in the car, and he raped her too. Then Theuns got out of the car, and Alison asked if she could get dressed, but neither man answered, so she just put her clothes on. Then, the two started discussing what they should do with Alison. At some point, she heard him refer to Clinton as Frans, revealing that Clinton’s name was not really Clinton, but it was Frans.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: And they said if they let her go, she would tell the police. She promised she wouldn’t, but you know, that’s a hard–

Em: Hard sell.

Christine: –thing to convince– A hard sell. They seemed to joke that the Devil would want them to kill her.

Em: Oh my god.

Christine: And although the men communicated mostly in Afrikaans up until now, they now spoke English deliberately, so she could understand them.

Em: I hate that.

Christine: And– Yeah. She basically knew they were tormenting her, talking about– in English, talking about, “Should we kill her? Should we– Like maybe we should just end her li–?” You know. And they discussed abandoning her naked at the beach, and then they told her to get undressed again. And so she thought, “Okay. Fine, if that’s the worst they’re gonna do, absolutely.”

Em: Yeah.

Christine: So–

Em: But also are they taking their clothes for like evidence or something, and now they’re gonna try–?

Christine: Who knows? Right.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Exactly. Like they could have some other more sinister plan, which guess what? They sure did. So, she just chose to believe them. She took her clothes off. But as this was happening, suddenly, Frans lunged at her and wrapped his hands around her throat.

Em: [sighs]

Christine: She lost consciousness. And when she awoke, she was lying on the ground, and one of her attackers was on top of her. Although she felt no pain, Alison suddenly realized that her attacker was bringing a knife up and down towards her throat.

Em: [sucks in air through teeth] She had so much adrenaline she didn’t even feel it at first.

Christine: Didn’t even feel it.

Em: Wow.

Christine: She watched him move his arm back and forth and counted eight slashes to her throat. Frans and Theuns walked away, and Alison turned herself over onto her stomach to try and defend herself against another attack. But then she heard one of the men ask if she was dead, and the other one said, “Well, no one could survive what we just did to her.” Then, they got in a car and drove away. And Alison, of course, was still alive.

Em: She survived. Oh my god.

Christine: She was lying in the sand, and she could hear a strange sound after the car drove away. She realized it was the wound in her neck, and her labored breathing was going through her severed trachea and making a horrible rasping sound.

Em: Oh… [sighs]

Christine: She thought then that she was quote “injured beyond hope.” And honestly, this gives me chills, she had an out-of-body experience. She said her consciousness floated in the air. She looked down at her body, and she couldn’t hear her breathing anymore when she went up there.

Em: Mm.

Christine: And she knew she could easily just keep going, let go, escape the pain and trauma.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: But she decided, “Nope. I want to live.” So she made a very deliberate effort to “return” to her body.

Em: Damn.

Christine: This is just fascinating. It’s like–

Em: So it’s paranormal and true crime right now.

Christine: Yes! It totally is.

Em: Wow.

Christine: It’s like astral, astral almost, like her soul.

Em: And to do it on your first try, congratulations. You saved your own life.

Christine: Yeah, un-unbelievable. Unbelievable. And so she finally felt reconnected to her own body, and she heard her breathing again.

Em: Mm.

Christine: And she realized like, “Okay, well, if I’m gonna survive, then I gotta make moves.”

Em: “Yeah, I gotta hurry.”

Christine: So she– You gotta get, get it– get going, right? So she lifted herself onto her knees– Oh my god. Okay. I should’ve given probably 40 trigger warnings, but here’s one. Um, she got herself onto her knees, and she realized that, while she had been unconscious, the men had also stabbed her in the abdomen–

Em: Mm…

Christine: –37 times. And–

Em: How– wh–

Christine: –she had been completely disemboweled.

Em: [gasps] Oh my god.

Christine: So she picked up her shirt from the ground beside her. Oh my god. She used it to gather her intestines up against her stomach, and she started crawling.

Em: [muffled by hands over their mouth] Oh my god.

Christine: This alcove that she crawled through where they had just left her like refuse was littered with broken glass, cans, soot from–

Em: Sand like, like all like rubbing up on your s– on all your organs.

Christine: Sand. Tons of sand. Soot from bonfires, so like ashes and charred wood. She was barely making progress this way. She knew she needed to walk. So she managed to pull herself to her feet, and her vision went black.

Em: [sighs] Duh. Like yeah, that’s like–

Christine: Of– Like right. Uh, shocked you’re even vertical. But she was still conscious. She just couldn’t see.

Em: The human body’s so fucking in-insane. I–

Christine: Isn’t it unbelievable? It’s like you hear this, and you just think like, wow. The–

Em: And the will to live is so fucking insane.

Christine: The will to live. The way that her e-essence was out of her own body and then said, “Never mind. I’m gonna go back into that pain and suffering. And like–“

Em: I hope when she was floating up there for a second she took one good breath, just went, [sighs deeply] “Alright, here we go.”

Christine: Right? ’Cause she knew. She knew. She said she knew in that moment she could just escape all the pain and be done, you know, and be happy. But she was like, “I wanna come back one more time,” which was just so powerful.

Em: Oh my god.

Christine: So she managed to get to her feet, and her vision went black. But she was still conscious, so she began to move. But she couldn’t see, and she reached for her throat as she walked and realized her wound was so deep her entire hand fit inside the wound. And she realized her head had nearly been decapitated and was hanging backwards like unnaturally far from her body.

[silence]

Em: I–

Christine: I’m so sorry. This is like– This is–

Em: Dude, let’s go back to the Floopengerkles. This is crazy.

Christine: –so dark. This is– Like talk about the comparison between your half and my half. This is like probably one of the more extreme examples of like, uh, contrast.

Em: Oof… Yeah. Wow. I can’t, I can’t bel– I– So did she have to hold her own head up to–?

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: [sighs] Oh my god.

Christine: [muffled by hand over mouth] Mm-hmm.

Em: And she g– So– And also it’s like a pick and choose your own horrid adventure. Like do you hold your organs? Do you hold your head? Do you hold your throat?

Christine: Your throat, your, your head, your or– your disemboweled organ– I mean, what on earth?

Em: Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god.

Christine: So. [sighs] Uh, ooh, yeah. It’s, it’s a lot.

Em: No wonder you weren’t having butterflies about talking to me. Jesus. [laughs]

Christine: [laughs] I know I was like, [in crying voice] “Can I just get it over with? This is such a s– such a fucking hard one.” Um. So, [sighs] oof. Uh, she, like you said, pulled her head forward.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: I mean, it’s like that fucking story of the ribbon. The girl with the ribbon around her neck.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Like, eugh! My gosh! She had to hold her own head up. So she pulled her own head up with one hand and held it steady so she could walk as she, you know, held her stomach with the other hand in her T-shirt. As she made her way through the trees and brush, she occasionally lost her vision, but she managed to make it out of the alcove and collapse in the road. A car came along, shining its headlights on her. The engine stopped, but no one got out. And after a few minutes, Alison heard the engine start again, and the car drove around her body and sped away.

Em: Oh, fuck. Oh– [sighs]

Christine: So it was probably someone who was like, “I don’t wanna get out and deal with this.”

Em: “I don’t even wanna touch that.” Yeah.

Christine: Yeah. “I don’t know what this is, but I don’t want to be part of it.”

Em: You would hope they at least call like the police or something, right?

Christine: Oh, you’d hope so. Alison, t– for what it’s worth, tried to reason with herself that maybe the driver had a good reason to leave her there. Like, yeah, like maybe–

Em: Or was maybe scared themselves or–

Christine: –was scared or wanted to go call the police. Exactly. Um, and so she said she felt sorrow when they drove away but not anger, which is very interesting.

Em: That’s wild. I’d be so livid. I’d be like, “Are you f– absolutely kidding me?” [laughs]

Christine: “Are you fucking kidding me?” [laughs] Then another car arrived, and suddenly, a man took Alison’s hand. He told someone else – who luckily just happened to have a cell phone in 1994, which barely anyone probably had –

Em: [applause]

Christine: –to call an ambulance. Now, the hospital’s only 15 minutes away, but it took paramedics 40 minutes to arrive. And somehow, Alison held on the entire time. She was conscious. At the hospital, the staff was shocked by how alert she was. She even signed a consent form for her treatment and wrote down her mom’s phone number because they needed to call her emergency contact.

Em: Im– Imagine– Imagine the, um, adrenaline dump afterwards from keeping it together for this fucking long.

Christine: The cra– the crash, just like the sha–

Em: She mu–

Christine: Oh, the shaking and crash, yeah.

Em: Yeah. I can’t, I can’t even imagine.

Christine: This is like a– Yeah. Uh, talk about out-of-body, I mean, literally and figuratively. So after she was able to write down her mom’s phone number, they performed a multi-hour surgery on her neck and then another on her abdomen. Once they had repaired her airway, the surgeon painstakingly had to clean leaves, soot, and sand from every inch of her intestines because–

Em: Literally inside and out.

Christine: Inside, yeah. And out.

Em: And not to take away from the trauma here, but like truly there’s, there’s nothing sensory-wise I hate more on this Earth than sand when it touches one very washable part of me.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Like it touches my arm, I have a fucking problem with it. I can’t imagine it being like your–

Christine: Inside.

Em: –your stomach being like en– just covered in san– Like there’s no– I can’t imagine–

Christine: And dirt and leaves and trash. I mean, trash. People’s litter. It’s just horrible.

Em: And, and like shards of glass. You don’t know if there’s like at any moment, it’s gonna be punctured.

Christine: Mm-hmm. Yep, glass.

Em: I can’t even– Who was her doctor? Like that guy deserves his own break after this. That’s amazing.

Christine: Well, he r– he took the time. He had to take every little grain of sand from inside of her out to prevent an infection.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: ’Cause you sew that back up. Like you can’t leave anything in there. It has to be perfectly clean and sterile. So he’s in there completely trying to get– It took hours. Hours.

Em: Yeah. It had to be a, a full day. I mean, im– imagine telling someone, “Make sure every grain of sand is gone.” That seems like an impossible feat.

Christine: And you have to, you know, ’cause like if something happens, then y– you missed it, you know. It’s just–

Em: [sighs]

Christine: It’s so scary. So after the surgery, Alison’s parents and friends visited along with Tiaan Eilerd, the man who had held her hand on the side of the road.

Em: Mm!

Christine: He came to visit. Apparently, uh, while they were waiting for the ambulance, he held her hand to keep her awake. He told her she had beautiful eyes, so she should keep her eyes open.

Em: [sighs]

Christine: He joked that she would owe him a date once she was better, and she grinned. And he said, “And you have to pay because you’ve ruined my shirt.” [laughs] ’Cause he had blood all over his shirt.

Em: [laughs] This guy is– He found a way to make any scenario fun.

Christine: He’s, he’s got the moves! [laughs] But apparent–

Em: You gotta have a real riz to you that in that situation you can make a laugh.

Christine: He’s, he’s, he’s got some riz. He’s, he’s charming, charming her up because, uh, apparently she stayed conscious and alert and smiling. The fact she’s smiling on the side of the road. I mean, come on.

Em: Wow.

Christine: So, another driver, um, had arrived at the scene during this time and had covered Alison with a blanket from their car while they waited the rescue. And Alison was almost conscious the whole time, and Tiaan just lied– laid on the ground next to her and talked to her and tried to keep her, keep her awake. And whenever she started to drift, he would hold a lighter in front of her and tell her to just stare at the flame and try to focus on the flame of the lighter to focus and stay awake.

Em: Who is this gentle parent? Who knows–? He– How does he know every trick in the book?

Christine: I’m telling you, this guy– Talk about– This is a guardian angel. Like it’s a real person, but I, I feel like they were put on this Earth as a guardian angel of some sort.

Em: It’s like a third man syndrome but also a real man. Yeah.

Christine: Totally. Yeah, yeah. I really– I mean, and I think that happens that people are just put in the right place at the right time.

Em: Mm.

Christine: I love how the guy with the cell phone’s like, “I’m the one with the cell phone who called 911.” [laughs] “Yeah, you’re important too, but–“

Em: It’s like– [laughs] “Yeah, but– Personality here. We need the personality hire.”

Christine: The riz.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: “We need the riz at level 10. Sorry, bud.” Um, okay. So Alison, um, wasn’t able to speak, obviously.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Uh, her trachea had been severed. So Tiaan established a communication method with her. He asked her questions, and she would squeeze his hand once for “yes” and twice for “no.” So Tiaan and his friends managed to work out that Alison was raped by two men – which also the fact that they’re even getting information right now before she goes unconscious and perhaps dies on the table or, you know, loses too much blood, what have you, I’m just so impressed that they were able to get the info out too. Or she probably wanted to tell them as well. Um, that she had been raped by two men. They even were able to gather through their communication method the car– her own car’s make, model, and color by just like these hand squeezes.

Em: Holy shit.

Christine: And Alison was determined to at least get the justice against her attackers whether she survived this or not. She was like, “I wanna get them in prison. I wanna get them arrested.”

Em: I honestly wonder if that was like the letting her not just float away.

Christine: Oh yeah.

Em: I wonder if it was like, “No, let’s at least bring them to justice first.”

Christine: “I’m going to get justice.” That’s such a good point. Like, “I’m going to go back so they never do this again, you know, to anybody else or, or that they see any sort of retribution for what they did.” Um, yeah. So she was determined to get justice whether she survived or not. And actually, before she left the beach, she had written in the sand with her fingers the names “Theuns” and “Frans.”

Em: She– Every step of the way had a fucking plan.

Christine: It gets even sadder. She put their names in case she didn’t survive, and, beneath their names, she wrote, “I love Mom.”

Em: Oh my god.

Christine: [quiet, small voice] I know. In case she didn’t make it, she wanted those two–

Em: Oh my god.

Christine: She didn’t want the last things she said to be those guys. She wan– Oh my god. It just makes me–

Em: Wow. I’ll cr– absolutely cry about that later.

Christine: I know. I literally have goose cam. So Tiaan got on the ambulance with her when it finally arrived and held her hand all the way to the hospital. He left the hospital only to shower and change, and then he returned and anxiously awaited news on her surgery. In the following days, he was one of many visitors. Many didn’t even know Alison, but they had like seen her story on the news. And the staff had to actually start screening crowds of visitors because Alison was getting overwhelmed by all the support and love and gifts. Hundreds of people sent flowers. Um, Alison actually published a thank you column in the local newspaper to say thank you to everybody–

Em: Wow.

Christine: –because she felt like she couldn’t thank everybody individually, which was like [laughs] so sweet. Um, and meanwhile, the police were visiting, uh, trying to get to the bottom of this. They visited her with a binder full of photos of different men. And Alison looks through. She’s like, “There’s Frans,” points straight at him. So his name was Frans du Toit, I believe.

Em: ‘Kay.

Christine: du Toit? Frans du Toit and his housemate, Theuns Kruger. And she pointed them out. They were promptly arrested. Um, Frans, Frans had abducted and raped a woman at gunpoint earlier that year, and Theuns was also facing separate charges of rape and assault. Um, and both men had been released on bail while those cases were pending. So they were out on bail when they had attacked Alison. The investigators on Alison’s case decided that a verbal identification from Alison would be much more compelling, so they actually asked doctors to remove her intubation tube so that she could speak to them.

Em: Wow, oh my god.

Christine: And this is very risky, especially because they had just stitched her entire throat together. Now they’re gonna pull a tube out through her throat that they just basically repaired.

Em: Through a very tender, vulnerable thing. Yeah.

Christine: Yes, yeah. Like she’d already been attacked there, and now they’re pulling something through that could like damage the, the stitches which are fresh.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: But she’s like, “No. Take it out. Take it out now. I wanna give my statement.” She agreed to do it. She said, “Frans and Theuns – they’re the ones.” And later investigators explained to Alison that she’d actually have to identify both men in person.

Em: Mm.

Christine: It’s like the re-traumatizing just never ends with this kinda thing. And at the time, the protocol required victims of crimes to pose for a photograph with the defendant with a hand on the defendant’s shoulder for a positive ID. So you’d have to literally put your hand on the person, and they would take a photograph as like–

Em: What?

Christine: That was like the protocol to determine from a lineup like who you– who you’re selecting. Isn’t that nuts?

Em: Ew!

Christine: Isn’t that nuts?

Em: That’s the most traumatizing shit in the world.

Christine: You should not have to touch your attacker. Are you kidding me?

Em: You shouldn’t ever have to look at them ever again ever.

Christine: I agree. But this time, the court thankfully made an exception, and she was able to use one-way glass, which I think is a lot more standardized now.

Em: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Christine: Um, I, I know that like I don’t think they even do this kind of lineup thing as much maybe as they used to or– I, I’m not sure about that. But she was able to do it from the side of one-way glass. And Theuns and Frans had also made full confessions because police told them they were being arrested for attempted murder, and they went, “Attempted?” Like they could not believe that she had survived this. I mean, they, they heard she was alive, and they were like, “Well, we’re fucking screwed.”

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: And when they found out she was alive, they said there’s no point in lying about this like, “We did it.”

Em: Wow. That’s pretty amazing. You would think–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: I thought–

Christine: They just had no defense. They had no defense.

Em: Wow.

Christine: But on the stand, Frans claimed he was a Satanist. And he was possessed by demons when he raped multiple women, and that’s why he was such a rapist. And he said that he would undergo an exorcism and choose Jesus and reform. “Don’t worry about it. It’s fine.”

Em: Yeah. Pass, actually.

Christine: His wife testified on his behalf and insisted he was a good husband and father who was just sometimes overcome by violent urges, which is also just so sad.

Em: Lucky girl.

Christine: I know. It’s really, really, really hard to hear that he has a wife and kids and presumably treats them just as well as he treats other women.

Em: Yeah, I really– I really hope this was a double life situation, and, uh, he– I’d like to think they were surprised by this–

Christine: Left it outside of the house.

Em: –instead of finding out that this was happening to two people. Yeah.

Christine: No. The fact that his wife said he was sometimes overcome by violent urges feels like she knew something was going on.

Em: You’re totally right.

Christine: This was the 1990s wave of the Satanic Panic, and police force employed experts back then to investigate supposed occult-related crimes and determine if they were really occult or if it was just more of a, a defense. And their expert, who Alison said in her memoir genuinely believed in demonic possessions, testified in court that Frans’s alleged possession was not authentic because Frans’s crimes had been so calculated which was not typical to possession victims. He also– So this is more paranormal, by the way. This is so weird. There’s like even more paranormal here.

Em: You really nailed it this time.

Christine: Wow. Um, he also said possession victims generally felt extreme remorse for their crimes once they were exorcised of the Devil, right? Because the Devil make them do it, not their own self. But Frans, meanwhile, was fucking thrilled about what he did and had zero concern or remorse. And he said, “That is not a true possession victim.” In fact, Frans seemed to bask in the media attention that he got from the case. And he and Theuns were very casual about what they had done to multiple women. For example, in court, they described making breakfast with the knife they had used to attack Alison.

Em: What?!

Christine: Without washing it.

Em: That’s straight-up mental illness.

Christine: So her blood was in their food.

Em: That’s psychot– Like that’s crazy. That’s– I don’t even know what the right word is.

Christine: And they, they bra– It’s not even like– There’s not even a word in the dictionary. Like and they bragged about it. What?

Em: Like for what? Like whose–

Christine: What?

Em: Who do you think is patting you on the back for that?

Christine: It’s so bizarro that– I mean, Satan, I guess? I– [laughs]

Em: Alright.

Christine: I have no fucking clue. I have no clue. Uh, they said they would have abducted and murdered another woman that same day if they hadn’t been arrested.

Em: Oh. Well, glad we did it.

Christine: Good. Great. Do you know that that must be so validating? I hope. I don’t know this, but it must be validating for Alison to hear like, “Oh, you stopped them from– They had full plans to do this to someone else.”

Em: Yeah. I hope–

Christine: “And you came back and stopped them.”

Em: At the very least.

Christine: I just, I just find that so cool.

Em: Totally.

Christine: I really wanna read her memoir, but I have not gotten the time yet. Um, that’s on my list. Ultimately, Theuns and Frans were both sentenced to life in prison because the death penalty had recently been abolished in South Africa. Since her first days in the hospital and throughout the trial, Alison was completely overwhelmed by the media frenzy surrounding her case. I mean, imagine going from like a pool day with your, with your friend and her kids, or a beach day with your friend and her kids and then, suddenly you’re like swarmed by news media outlets. And you’re like in a hospital bed with a tube down your throat– I mean, it’s just gotta be so shocking and jarring.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Um, she was in excruciating pain as well, uh, as her wounds healed. I mean, think about how many things had to heal all at once and–

Em: Yeah. And in ’94, like I’m not saying that was archaic medicine, but it certainly wasn’t probably what today is, at least in terms of painkillers, you know.

Christine: I mean, it’s crazy to think it was 30 years ago. 30 years. Like now we have robotics surgery. I mean, I’m not saying that like this guy didn’t do a fine job. I don’t know, but like it’s just so wild to think like what 30 years ago– Yeah, so I, I qdon’t know what the difference was or is, but, um, she was in excruciating pain. And I think like even with pain medication, you probably would be because you’d have to, you’ve have to learn how to use your body again.

Em: You have– I mean, the physical therapy you’re gonna be in for the rest of your life, I mean.

Christine: The physical– That’s exactly it. Yeah. Learning to like–

Em: And also I mean like it, it’s, um– Beyond the initial stabbings and everything, I imagine it’s like the recovery of that is at least, at least a– like your, your best shot is that it’s like after a C-section or something ’cause they have to put all your organs back in your body and shit. Like–

Christine: I mean, yeah. You’re trying to get your literal entire digestive system to work again. I mean, jeez. It’s just–

Em: And that’s hoping that everything went well and putting them back was just like a one step process, you know, like a–

Christine: Right. And that we didn’t leave one grain of sand behind or something that’s gonna screw everything up, you know.

Em: [sighs]

Christine: Like it’s scary. Yeah, you’re right. It’s risky too, like infection, and she has all these wounds. I mean, oy.

Em: [sighs]

Christine: Wounds in your throat. I mean. And then, of course, the trauma of it. Yeah.

Em: I mean, imagine– I– The fear, the fear of like even coughing or sneezing right now, and your throat is tissue paper. Like, are you kidding me? [sighs]

Christine: [inhales sharply] Yeah, yeah. Like your whole body would just be in disarray. And, and she really was in a lot of pain, but she slowly, slowly started to heal. Um, and even once she moved into a new apartment and returned to work, everybody wanted to talk to her about what had happened. And she just–

Em: Yeah, ’cause there’s all those people who come out of the woodwork who want to hear the, the awful stuff.

Christine: Right? The details, yeah. And it’s like, “Okay–“

Em: It’s like, “Just leave me alone. Let me just fucking learn how to swallow again.”

Christine: Yeah, she’s at work. Yeah, exactly. She’s at work. Leave her alone. Like– God. As Alison settled into her life post-trial, she struggled with depression – completely understandably, obviously.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: She often just didn’t care about herself or her life. She would skip work without calling in, which was completely out of character. She had trouble eating and caring for herself. But she was really, really determined to work through her trauma. And she thought to herself that that out-of-body experience the night she was attacked she had consciously made the decision to live. And she said now she had to decide to make a conscious decision to live again. And so she did. She was invited to speak at an event about her ordeal. And although she had always hated and t– was terrified of public speaking, she took the chance. And she said– she described how she was attacked, she managed to survive. And she said afterwards, it was like she just felt so much relief. And she felt so much better that she decided to start speaking at more events and more events. And over time, uh, she just felt so much healing through telling her story. So it was like–

Em: Good.

Christine: –now that she was able to do it on her own terms almost, um, and tell her own story without just being like cornered at work, you know–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: –but actually telling it in a meaningful way to people who could benefit from it, she just found it he-helped heal her tremendously. She said in a documentary that she had never had any particular dreams or ambitions as a child. Remember how I was saying she described herself as like not sporty, kinda nerdy, not that academic, you know?

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Um, but she said, you know, she, she really wasn’t sure what to do once she finished school, and she kind of felt like unmoored and a little bit just lost. Her mom convinced her to train as a secretary as a fallback career plan. And after living in England for a few years and exploring the world for a bit, Alison worked as an insurance broker until her attack. And now, she was like, “I finally feel like I have purpose. Like my job before was kind of just there to like pay the bills, whatever.” And she’s like, “Now I feel like I have a real purpose in my life, and I’m gonna tell my story.”

Em: That’s great.

Christine: Her other purpose in life became her two beloved sons, whom she considered miracles because there was so much trauma to Alison’s abdomen and genitals that the surgeon told her she may never be able to have children, uh, biologically.

Em: I, I would, I would be scared even if I– the second I got pregnant, I’d be like, “Sign me up.”

Christine: “What could go wrong?” Yeah.

Em: “S-sign me up for a surgery or something.”

Christine: “Something might go wrong.” Yeah.

Em: “There’s no way I can–“ Yeah.

Christine: But apparently, both of her pregnants were easy, health– I mean, easy as they can be – healthy, and joyful. Alison partnered with author Marianne Thame to tell her story in the memoir, I Have a Life: Alison’s Journey. [Note: title of the book is I Have Life: Alison’s Journey]

Em: Wow.

Christine: And she also shared her experience in a documentary called Alison. That’s with one “L,” I believe. And she said in an interview, “I have always hoped that by sharing my own journey with others, it would give them hope and courage for their own.” So last year in 202– nope, two years ago now, 2023.

Em: Ay!

Christine: Wow! Alison and her friends and family were shocked to discover that, 29 years after the attack, both Frans and Theuns were released from prison.

Em: Oh, I would absolutely lose my mind.

Christine: Imagine. Oh my gosh. Alison had been informed that Frans was released, but she had only learned of Theuns’s parole from the media. So that was very– That really shook her up. There is an official inquiry pending regarding the circumstances of the men’s release with many fearful that they are still a danger to society – yeah, no duh –

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: –while some believe they have earned their release after three decades of rehabilitation.

Em: No.

Christine: I mean, listen. I don’t know what the fuck they’re up to, but I don’t wanna know. Regardless, Alison remained focused on her advocacy work, for which she had received a number of awards from various organizations. And many survivors of violence have found comfort and motivation in her story, her determination – which I think that’s one thing no one can take away from her at this point. She has experienced chronic health complications because of all the extensive trauma her body endured.

Em: Sure.

Christine: Um, for example, so the, the actual attack was in 1994, but in September of 2024, which was just for us a few months ago, she suffered an aneurysm and had to undergo two brain surgeries.

Em: Oh my god.

Christine: And so immediately afterward, Alison went right back to work. [laughs] She’s like, “Don’t worry. I’m used to this. I’m used to life, life-threatening situations and surgeries.”

Em: Jesus.

Christine: Um, but she went right back to her work, dedicated as ever. And she recently made this statement: “For 30 years, my goal has been to share my story to encourage others. Now, facing this life-threatening event, I’ve felt your encouragement and care flooding back from you. Words can’t express my gratitude to all of you.” And that is the story of Alison Botha.

Em: Wow. [applause]

Christine: What a badass.

Em: That’s, um–

Christine: That’s a fighter.

Em: Yeah. Uh, one of my least favorite stories you’ve told by you is, um, one of my favorite. You know what I mean? In the not fucked up way.

Christine: Oh, I know what you mean.

Em: I– It’s, it’s a–

Christine: Oh, I know.

Em: Yeah. Okay.

Christine: It’s, it’s a tale.

Em: I’m– The highest, uh, the highest praise to you, but, uh, but that’s a terrible story that even has to exist, so.

Christine: I know. I know.

Em: Oy. [sighs] Um, are– I don’t, I don’t know. I don’t know what to say. That’s rough.

Christine: That’s okay. I’ll step in. Thank you, everyone, for listening.

Em: Oh– [laughs]

Christine: Sorry to bum you out. [laughs] If you want to get some positivity back in your feed, you can check us out at patreon.com/atwwdpodcast where we do a weekly Yappy Hour and talk about something either deep or just completely nonsensical or just take a personality quiz on the internet. Nobody ever knows. Um, and sometimes I drink. So come over there and check us out. You can also find us @atwwdpodcast. Em is @theemschulz. I am @xtineschiefer. And you can go to andthatswhywedrink.com/live for tickets or andthatswhywedrink.com for anything else you might need!