[intro music]
Em Schulz: Welcome to episode 400 plus an extra.
[vocalization]
Christine Schiefer: What if we just spent 50 episodes celebrating our 400th?
Em Schulz: Yeah. But then we would have to do a, like 451 would be 450 episodes plus one.
Christine Schiefer: That's what I'm saying.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm into it.
Christine Schiefer: No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It would be, Oh, we're leading up to 500 now, you know.
Em Schulz: Oh, only 99 episodes left.
Christine Schiefer: Like 400, this is a cele... I know, this is a celebration of 400 and we've dragged that on as long as possible. And then 451, we're like, alright guys, it's time to gear up for 500.
Em Schulz: I mean, you're saying things that I'm gonna do now, so it's nice that...
Christine Schiefer: I know.
Em Schulz: You're prepared.
Christine Schiefer: Well, we're gonna do 'em for once and then we will forget, so it's fine.
Em Schulz: Okay, perfect. Well, on today's, on today at the very least, how excited is everyone for the 500th episode coming out? I mean, the 450th first, but then the 500th.
Christine Schiefer: It's only two years away. If I'm doing my math correctly.
Em Schulz: Only two years. It's like not that far away. We got to start preparing something.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Just like we did for 400 and then like completely botched it. So you better start prepping.
Em Schulz: Well, but that Costa Grill wasn't real. I did try, I tried very hard.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Well you have time now to start looking for real stories.
Em Schulz: I, I know.
Christine Schiefer: You have about two years to find one that's actually true.
Em Schulz: Christine, umm, one, why do you drink? And two, why do you have such a glowy eyelid today?
Christine Schiefer: Oh, thank you. I found this, umm, thing in my makeup stuff from 2016 and I put it on my eyes and I was like, why is it so dry? And then I realized, Okay, 'cause it's from 2016.
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, probably very expired and I probably shouldn't be putting it on my eyes, but it's just some, like...
Em Schulz: It's very, umm...
Christine Schiefer: Shimmer.
Em Schulz: Either '70s or Y2K, but it's got you kind of like that...
Christine Schiefer: Ah.
Em Schulz: That blue, blue silver shimmer kinda going on.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah, I was feeling it. Umm, and so yeah, I took a shower today. You're welcome everybody. Umm, and I thought maybe I'll put on my expired makeup too, while I'm at it.
Em Schulz: I, you know, I love that you get clean and then you get dirty all over again.
Christine Schiefer: And then, and I do, and then I wonder why I get so many infections.
Em Schulz: You don't, you don't do well without a, a rough coat of something gross on you.
Christine Schiefer: I mean... Oh, speaking of which I drink today. Thank you for asking. Because today Blaise got home from dropping Leona off and said, did you know it was picture day? And I said, Uh...
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: No, nobody told me it wasn't on the calendar. And like, I don't really care. But it was very funny. He's like, I dropped her off and, umm, she was wearing her spidey jacket that Blaise texted us today from you.
Em Schulz: You're welcome for picture day then I fucking nailed it.
Christine Schiefer: No, she literally wore it for picture day. And, uh, I, it was just so funny. Uh, and the teacher goes, Wow, you're wearing your spidey jacket for picture day. And Blaise went Uh-oh it's picture day because her breakfast was still on her face. And she, he had not done her hair at all, so it was just kind of like raggedy on her face. And so, uh, her teacher was like, let me get a hairbrush. So she had like a little hairbrush and they put her in pigtails and then Blaise was like, but I think I forgot to wipe her face. And I said, That's okay. She's my boxcar child as I always call her. I always loved the Boxcar Children series as a kid.
Em Schulz: We've, we've done this. Oh yeah, we know. I, I agree with your love.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. I just love the boxcar lifestyle, you know, in, in theory, not in real life, but it is kind of...
Em Schulz: Not in practice.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, it's...
Em Schulz: But it's fun to astral project there every now and then.
Christine Schiefer: Right. Just like fake it a little bit. Like, it's just like, I'm like, uh, you know how the trad wives are doing like their own weird little like house on the prairie bullshit. I'm doing like my, my boxcar children lifestyle, where're just...
Em Schulz: That's lovely.
Christine Schiefer: Kind of crusty all the time. My makeup's usually expired, but so she's gonna look like really on it today. Like on, on her.
Em Schulz: You know what she's gonna look? She's gonna look fucking normal. Like, I think...
Christine Schiefer: I guess so. That's true. Yeah.
Em Schulz: We should normalize picture day being what you actually fucking look like that at that age.
Christine Schiefer: You, uh... Em genius. It's a surprise. You don't know when it's coming.
Em Schulz: You don't know. And also, like picture day used to be a day before people had digital cameras and cell phones and you were getting pictures of yourself a hundred times a day. It was the one nice picture you got a year.
Christine Schiefer: That's true.
Em Schulz: And now we don't have, now we've got phones in the internet and everything. We, we take pictures all the time.
Christine Schiefer: Now, we got picture mode, you know, like...
Em Schulz: Yeah, it was...
Christine Schiefer: Whatever.
Em Schulz: It was back when you had, if you were lucky, you had a camera at home.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: And this was maybe your one picture of your kid.
Christine Schiefer: And it would...
Em Schulz: You've got a hundred now and you've a hundred where she probably looks better, so.
Christine Schiefer: And it was like a... Right. A professional photographer had to come in with his equipment and then, and now it's like, Oh no, my phone is the equipment you don't really need all that stuff.
Em Schulz: You don't need it.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah. So, you know...
Em Schulz: Yeah, picture day does not need to be what it used to be.
Christine Schiefer: It's, it'll Be funny 'cause uh, they, like last year I got her pictures from picture day and they're, she's like sitting on a little stool and she looks so like gentle and adorable. And I'm like this.
Em Schulz: Yeah. It's untrue. It's not even real.
Christine Schiefer: Exactly. It's not, it doesn't represent reality. So in contrast, I can't wait to see what they will...
Em Schulz: I would, I would love to know what I actually looked like at three instead of how precious and angelic my photos make me look. I know I was...
Christine Schiefer: I know, right? You see...
Em Schulz: I know I had chocolate sauce like in my hair, you know, so.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Oh, and then Blaise said Christine, I swear you can't see the paint we got in her hair last night. And I was like, honestly, I don't give a shit anymore. If she has green paint in her hair, whatever.
Em Schulz: She's gonna love it one day when she's like her own little creative and she's gonna be like, look, my parents just kind of raised me as I was and I love that.
Em Schulz: As a dirty boxcar child.
Em Schulz: Yeah. She's Gonna love it. She's gonna use it for her art, so.
Christine Schiefer: Oh man. Yeah. Uh, she also had like the grungiest fingernails 'cause she keeps asking to paint them, but then she's too, she's, I don't know where she gets it from. She's too impatient to let them dry. And so then she just gets like dog hair all over them. It's so gross. Anyway, how, why are, why do you drink? Let's not talk about how dirty my child is. Umm, she's not dirty folks. She's just messy. And you know...
Em Schulz: She's Dirty.
Christine Schiefer: She's a Toddler.
Em Schulz: She's, uh, an appropriate age for being constantly sticky. And that's...
Christine Schiefer: Just a sticky kid, you know.
Em Schulz: Yeah, that's Okay. She won't be sticky. And then one day I'll love her more.
Christine Schiefer: Mm.
Em Schulz: So, umm, why do I drink? Well, because I'm home. I'm Not even...
Christine Schiefer: Hey, pause. You're the one who taught her to eat a tomato like an apple. So don't even start with me about how Oh, like you'll like her better.
Em Schulz: Did she tell tell you that? She's already lying. She literally told me I eat them like apples.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, I know. And she's eaten them like apples when she was an infant, which I've just always attributed to somehow being related to you.
Em Schulz: Nope. She just, uh, maybe by osmosis, she, but I'll take the credit. I guess I, but I did not teach her that.
Christine Schiefer: Okay well.
Em Schulz: I would, well I literally don't have children. I would've thought at this age she can still choke on a tomato, so I would've not fed that to her.
Christine Schiefer: I don't think you ever fed it to her. I think I just one time either mentioned or there's just maybe osmosis. But yeah, we've talked about this. She eats tomatoes like apples. And the only person I know who does that is you. So I do ascribe that to you somehow.
Em Schulz: Maybe we had that conversation when you were pregnant and she heard it from the womb and went, now that sounds pretty fucking good.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. She's like, now that's what I'll...
Em Schulz: She's like get me outta here.
Christine Schiefer: Thats what I'll gather from...
Em Schulz: I'm gonna give that a whirl.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, that's one the one thing I'll take from funcle Em.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Well, yeah, there'll, there will be more. Umm, uh, I drink, I, first of all, I'm, I'm in Fredericksburg. I'm in not even my own room I'm in my step siblings room.
Christine Schiefer: I was gonna say, why Is it teal? Okay.
Em Schulz: Uh, because it was their high school color.
Christine Schiefer: I thought it was yours, but it's not yours.
Em Schulz: No, mine was Navy and Hunter Green.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Oh, It would be.
Em Schulz: Umm, and they went to they went to the public school. So, umm, their colors were different.
Christine Schiefer: Ew. No, I'm just Kidding.
Em Schulz: I know, yuck. Like everything in here, talk about sticky. Umm.
Christine Schiefer: Wait, wait, so wait, so wait, wait, wait. What does that have to do with the color of the room?
Em Schulz: It's the high school's color. Oh. They, uh, they didn't really know what to do and my mom was demanding that they design the room.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. So they made it teal as the, and that's the.
Em Schulz: They were like, I don't know, I go to this high school that's these colors. So they just ran with it.
Christine Schiefer: Were Navy and Hunter your school's colors?
Em Schulz: Yeah, I went to the private school and my sister went to the public school where the colors were different.
Christine Schiefer: I know but... So you both colored your rooms based on your school? Is that a thing?
Em Schulz: I didn't.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I thought, no, that's what I'm saying. Was your room colors?
Em Schulz: Oh, my room is a beach with SpongeBob on the wall.
Christine Schiefer: You said blue and na... I was very confused. You said blue and Hunter green. I was very confused. I thought.
Em Schulz: Yeah, those were my school's colors. Their, their school's colors were teal.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no, I was talking about the room being teal. And then you said mine was blue. And I said, was that your room? And you said, no, mine was blue and hunter green. And I was like, you don't mean your room.
Em Schulz: I thought you, when you said yours, I thought you meant my school.
Christine Schiefer: Why On earth would I mean that? But okay, great. Uh, so teal was their school color. Yours was not sponge, your school was not SpongeBob themed. Your bedroom was SpongeBob themed. Got it.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Uh, but my room has become the storage closet of the entire family. So now.
Christine Schiefer: Cool.
Em Schulz: Not even a bed to lie on because it's...
Christine Schiefer: Oh no.
Em Schulz: You know what, it's because I have one closet left in this house with stuff that I are like my keepsakes I still haven't brought over to California. And I have curated it. I've gone through this house a million times and made sure every single thing of mine was in that one closet. And I told my mom, I don't care what you do with my room, please do not touch that closet. Please don't touch it. Like it has... If you move things, I'm going to panic that something of mine is now missing and I have to redo this, this hunt across the house for it. Umm, and of course I came here, every single thing is full of shit except the closet, which is incredibly empty. Fully empty.
Christine Schiefer: What? Why?
Em Schulz: So, So even like our recording equipment, I had to, like, I have recording equipment here that was missing. I had to go find that.
Christine Schiefer: Oh uh.
Em Schulz: And not only that, but the microphone was broken. So now.
Christine Schiefer: Linda!
Em Schulz: I'm using a new microphone and which is why this little, this windscreen is way too big for it. Umm.
Christine Schiefer: I was wondering.
Em Schulz: But it's so my whole room is a mess. And it was, anyway.
Christine Schiefer: Why would she do that? What did she want with your recording equipment?
Em Schulz: It's, it's to piss me off. I don't know, but apparently it worked. So anyway, that's why I drink because my room doesn't even look like my room. And now I'm just like, I am, I guess, uh, squatting in other people's rooms because...
Christine Schiefer: Wow.
Em Schulz: I'm in my step-siblings room to record. I slept in my mom's bed last night. I've been sleeping on the couch before that. And uh, I know my mom's gonna use this as like fodder one day for, well, I should do whatever I want with your room. 'cause you don't even use the bed when you come here. It's like you mess it up. So anyway, that's why I drink because it's uh...
Christine Schiefer: It's not the same.
Em Schulz: It's not the same. I will tell you, this is the room I saw my grandpa in though.
Em Schulz: Gasp.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. Oh my God. Okay. I'm finding, putting context to it. So was that your room before your other room?
Em Schulz: No, this is the guest room when, listen, I was an only child and uh...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, you could sleep wherever you wanted, huh?
Em Schulz: There was a lot of beds. So I just kinda picked and choose. Pick and chose.
Christine Schiefer: Wow, wow. And then you're like, I want a private school room. Thank you.
Em Schulz: Trust me. I know I took a lot of unlearning, let's put it that way as I grew up. Umm, but, uh, I, the, the story always went that I, I had a really bad dream in my room, so I ran into the guest room and slept in here. And this used to be the guest room.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, you had a bad dream. Ran into this room and then saw your grandpa?
Em Schulz: Mm-Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I didn't ever, I didn't remember the, like, having a bad dream before the incident. I didn't remember that.
Em Schulz: Remember I told you it was Monster from the Muppets?
Christine Schiefer: Like a little bit, but I think I've only heard that part of it like once or twice. But I've heard the, the main part so many times. I think I forgot the beginning.
Em Schulz: Yeah, I know, I, I, so I ended up sleeping in here and that's where I saw him, so.
Christine Schiefer: Aw, That's kind of a nice story.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Umm, anyway, I haven't seen him yet, but I have seen a lot of dirty dishes in here. Umm, so just to give you an idea of who my step sibling is. Umm, last time I was here we were cleaning, cleaning their room 'cause they were about to go to college. And I was like, I have to help you clean. This is disgusting. And at one point they were like, it's not that bad. They lifted their pillow and a mountain of living ants.
Christine Schiefer: No.
Em Schulz: The pillow that they slept on.
Em Schulz: No. Absolutely not. No.
Em Schulz: And they're like, It's fine. I was like, you have to be kidding.
Christine Schiefer: Even I with my boxcar child, don't abide by that. That's too far. I'm sorry.
Em Schulz: So at every slight movement, I'm like, what was that?
Christine Schiefer: Forget it. Yeah. An ant.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Anyway, so that's, that's what's going on. I, uh, then from here, I'm...
Christine Schiefer: I'm gonna start humming in the middle.
[vocalization]
Christine Schiefer: Just to traumatize you.
Em Schulz: You're like, I know one thing about ants and it's the sound of their marching.
Christine Schiefer: And it's one thing. And by the way, it's a really good one. Really catchy.
Em Schulz: It's actually really good.
Christine Schiefer: It's a banger.
Em Schulz: You know what? The only song better than the ants go marching is.
Christine Schiefer: What's that?
Em Schulz: Apples and bananas.
Christine Schiefer: It's a classic.
Em Schulz: Classic.
Christine Schiefer: Can't go wrong. Can't go wrong.
Em Schulz: Umm, and then of course the one that wronged me was Barney's version of pumpernickel bread.
Christine Schiefer: Of course.
Em Schulz: Can't forget her. I've never, never forgotten that.
Christine Schiefer: Never Really, uh, never really, uh, got over that trauma. Huh?
Em Schulz: It's not chocolate bread as predicted. As it was assumed.
Christine Schiefer: As a German child, knew full well that was whole rye pumpernickel. But.
Em Schulz: As a sugarcoated American, I thought brown bread was gonna be chocolate. Fucking sue me.
Christine Schiefer: I listen, I'm not doubting you. I promise my child would also feel the same, my boxcar baby.
Em Schulz: How about you go feed her some pumpernickel right now. And tell her Funcle Em said you're gonna hate it. How About that?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. What if I just called it chocolate bread? I, I don't think that would work.
Em Schulz: That's what I thought Barney was up to. And then I ate it and I went, this fucking dinosaur's a liar.
Christine Schiefer: This fucking guy.
Em Schulz: Anyway, would you like to hear a story about a possession?
Christine Schiefer: Please I would love nothing more.
Em Schulz: Uh, it's moments like this week. It's been a wild week over here. And I'm just like, man, sometimes I wish I'd be possessed. Just let someone else take the, take the front seat or whatever, however They say it.
Christine Schiefer: Jesus, take the fuck... Satan take the wheel for like a minute. You know what I mean? Just like, uh Beelzebub, hop in the, hop in the driver's seat. Let me take a nap in the passenger seat. Feet up on the dash. Come on.
Em Schulz: Speaking of Satan, uh, being back in Virginia has been wild because I have overheard so many homophobic comments. It's wild because when I lived here, I don't remember it being... Excuse me, trust me I've learned since. But like at the time I was like, I don't remember ever hearing anything racist. I don't remember ever hearing anything.
Christine Schiefer: Well, probably we were saying it too. Like, 'cause we were just so...
Em Schulz: Surely.
Christine Schiefer: Stupid children.
Em Schulz: Or also like, I think because I was also gonna say, not only did I, do I not remember hearing a lot of racist things, which in hindsight I'm sure they were all around me.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: And I just wasn't...
Em Schulz: We just didn't catch on...
Em Schulz: My, my brain hadn't formed yet. Umm, but I also don't remember ever hearing anything homophobic. But in hindsight, I'm like, a lot of shit was homophobic. I just was straight passing.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: So I wasn't having it directed at me.
Christine Schiefer: You didn't have it direct and it wasn't relevant to you in your, like, necessarily in your mind at the time. Wow.
Em Schulz: And it was, it was still among me. But I think I was also like, I was so not even beginning my own journey with queerness that I wasn't even aware things around me were homophobic now in hindsight. Holy shit.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: But I definitely wasn't hearing as much as I now hear because I'm more on like high alert.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: Than I used to be. Umm, but I was...
Christine Schiefer: What have You heard?
Em Schulz: Oh, I heard someone this, it was like, so let's, let's put it this way. I was in a situation where I could not speak up. Umm, okay.
Christine Schiefer: Bad start, bad start.
Em Schulz: Let's just, let's put it this way. Everything's fine now. Tom, my stepfather was in the hospital this week.
Christine Schiefer: Yes.
Em Schulz: Everything's fine. Everything's fine.
Christine Schiefer: Sorry. I did not mean to put you on the spot like that. I'm sorry.
Em Schulz: No, no, no. But just so people are like, why were you in a position where you couldn't say anything? I couldn't say what I wanted to say, because security would've escorted me out and I needed to be there for my stepfather. You know what I'm saying? So like, I had to pick and choose.
Christine Schiefer: It's a life and death on the line people. Okay. It's the one time we're we're allowed to say we we were stuck. Yeah.
Em Schulz: I just kind Of, I just kind of bit my tongue on this one because I was like, I I...
Christine Schiefer: Sometimes you don't have a choice safety wise, like health wise. Yeah.
Em Schulz: That's True. I would've certainly, umm, been able to take them because they were 95. But, umm, I...
Christine Schiefer: I would've loved to see that come on.
Em Schulz: But I also, I just didn't need to find out like how into like calling the police 'cause they feel threatened or something.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: Or calling security because I'm making a fuss or whatever it is. Umm, so I just, I let it go. But I did take it as really good drama and I was like, I'm gonna listen to how fucking juicy this homophobic is, like talking about people.
Christine Schiefer: Wow.
Em Schulz: And umm, they were, the whole family was a whole family and they just had like the thickest southern accents. And so I try not to be judgy of that because I know some people with really thick accents who are like the most on the right side of history there's ever been. But then the second they said something a little fucked up, I was like, hang on, now I'm clocked in. I'm gonna listen to I was, I was I'm now tuned to listen.
Christine Schiefer: On the dial, yep.
Em Schulz: Umm, I just listened to them specifically about trans people. Of course.
Christine Schiefer: Well Of course.
Em Schulz: They were saying, uh, demonic satanic. I can't believe people allow that.
Em Schulz: Demonic?
Em Schulz: I mean, oh, you have no idea. Demonic was the main word they used.
Christine Schiefer: That just feels like, like lazy to, to accuse them of being demonic. Like that's lazy.
Em Schulz: I know. Boo.
Christine Schiefer: It's not even a good... Like a good insult.
Em Schulz: Well, okay, so I've been here, I, I just, I guess I just don't watch a lot of cable or maybe like in California.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, first of all, who watches cable? Go on.
Em Schulz: Hospitals. Umm, and So.
Christine Schiefer: 95-year-olds.
Em Schulz: Well, so there was like a lot of campaign, uh, ads coming through in between TV shows.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: And the way that I didn't see a single bad one about Trump, which really freaks me out. And all the ones about Kamala were like, it was like, it was, I thought, I mean, I, I'm so lucky to be in a place where it, this sounded crazy and no one actually believes this. But then I went to Virginia and I watched the people in the waiting room going mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Like.
Christine Schiefer: Oh God.
Em Schulz: But they were saying things like, Kamala is letting the dirty immigrants in and giving them sex changes. And I was like, what? I was, I was like, how?
Christine Schiefer: It's not funny. I know. But...
Em Schulz: I start giggling and I looked around and everyone else thought I was like a freak in The room.
Christine Schiefer: It just sounds so absurd.
Em Schulz: Anyway, so I listened to a whole family for like an hour talking about how evil trans people are and I was just sitting there and I was like, you can't possibly be looking around the room and wonder about me, but okay.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Right.
Em Schulz: Umm, anyway, so that's another reason why I drink. 'cause I really want to just give this old bitch a right hook.
Em Schulz: Did you know? Yeah. You didn't know those people. Right? They're not like in your family.
Em Schulz: No.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Okay.
Em Schulz: The But I, I just listened to this family and I was like, Ooh, if we were anywhere else, if we were anywhere else. And I was like, you're, I mean.
Christine Schiefer: Well, I'm sorry about that.
Em Schulz: Not that I would've actually hit a 90-year-old, but I certainly was like, I could take her in a, in a verbal fight.
Christine Schiefer: If you must, if you, if she struck first, you know?
Em Schulz: I mean, I should have been like, you're already in a hospital, how far you wanna go there? You know?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. You want me to just carry you into the, into the room, into the hospital bed. That's fine.
Em Schulz: I love talking like an like I'm gonna beat up an elderly lady, but.
Christine Schiefer: I know out of context it's like, whoa, what you doing? And then it's like, well, she was also a senior citizen.
Em Schulz: I certainly would've done a, a verbal set of fisticuffs with her.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I think you could've taken her. For sure. For sure. For Sure.
Em Schulz: I Absolutely could've.
Christine Schiefer: No doubt.
Em Schulz: And then what's she gonna do? Chase me? She's 95.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Good Luck with her fucking tennis ball walker. I'd like to see you try.
Em Schulz: I'm trying to just think of like ways I could insult an old person. I've never prepared for that, but, umm.
Christine Schiefer: Yep, me too. I know, right? It's like, wow. Suddenly I'm the ageist.
Em Schulz: Like you have tennis balls.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Anyway, it was just, I...
Christine Schiefer: You have tennis balls on your feet, you freak.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I was like, I don't know what to say, but I could have certainly, you know, in a game of logic, I would've certainly demolished her.
Christine Schiefer: Right, right. Yeah. That part's probably the easiest angle to take in this scenario.
Em Schulz: But her whole family was like that. And there were some that were my age and I was like, I, if I'm in the hallway with you, like what's gonna happen? Am I gonna have to...
Christine Schiefer: Get it together. Yeah. Yikes. Like, you're scary now all of a sudden these people, ugh.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Well, I'm sorry, Em, that sucks.
Em Schulz: All that because you said the word demon, which I should have seen coming on a paranormal podcast.
Christine Schiefer: Did I say the word demon? I don't even recall. Why did I say that?
Em Schulz: I don't know anymore. Uh, because we're talking about a possession today.
Christine Schiefer: Got it.
Em Schulz: So for the people in the YouTube comments, uh, like 20 minutes in is when the story starts.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Em Schulz: But you already know that 'cause you've had to listen to this all the way through.
Em Schulz: Because somebody commented it already in the, in the comments.
Em Schulz: So, uh, demons not trans people. Although if you're in apparently my neck of the woods.
Christine Schiefer: What's the difference? Am my right?
Em Schulz: What's it with, uh, with trans people in demons these days?
Christine Schiefer: Wait, let say it again. What's the difference? Am I right? I'm like just suddenly just bullying old people, which is like probably the, like the most childish way to handle this. But I can't help myself.
Em Schulz: I, I mean I, I fully encourage it.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I'm so sorry.
Em Schulz: If I don't care how old you are. If you're shitty, you're shitty, period.
Christine Schiefer: You're shitty, you know.
Em Schulz: Umm, especially like we were in like a surgery intensive.
Christine Schiefer: Right?
Em Schulz: Care you like, it's like how did you...
Christine Schiefer: Not the fucking time.
Em Schulz: It's like how did you find time in this while you're waiting for somebody to come out of life or death surgery?
Christine Schiefer: Right? That's what's Important to you right now? Really?
Em Schulz: How are you finding ways to bring this up? Maybe that fucking Kamala ad, I don't Know. But.
Christine Schiefer: That really pisses me right off, is what it does.
Em Schulz: It really grinds your gears. Huh?
Christine Schiefer: Really grinds my fucking gears man.
Em Schulz: Anyway. Uh, apparently newsflash for the privileged people in Los Angeles, there are still shitty people out there and we're lucky to not have to see it all the time.
Christine Schiefer: Ah.
Em Schulz: Uh, okay. Onto the possession.
Christine Schiefer: Please.
Em Schulz: This is the possession of Don Decker and he had a little stint on Unsolved Mysteries. Ever heard of it?
Christine Schiefer: Uh. Yeah.
Em Schulz: And this is in 1983. So in 1983, Don Decker was 21 years old. He was going through it. He was, apparently a lot of things had led up to this. They say he was on drugs, his family was dysfunctional. What we know currently is that he is now serving up to a year in prison for stolen property charges.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: I don't know what the story there is. I wish I knew the drama. I do not unfortunately. Umm, but just know that he was, uh, at the moment incarcerated. However, he was a candidate for furlough.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Which for people who don't know, because I somehow still didn't totally know the actual definition of it, but it's just temporary release.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Umm, he was allowed to leave the prison for his grandfather's funeral.
Christine Schiefer: Uh-huh.
Em Schulz: And while he was released, he stayed with his friend's Bob and Jeannie, and he'd only known them for a few months. So I guess they weren't that close. I don't know. I feel like you have to be kind of close to trust somebody coming outta prison to just take them in.
Christine Schiefer: When you say.
Em Schulz: Maybe you're friends.
Christine Schiefer: When you say he was, he's in prison for a year. Do you mean now? Now? Or like in the story now?
Em Schulz: In the story. Sorry.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I thought like, now he's in prison today. And I was like.
Em Schulz: Sorry. No.
Christine Schiefer: Uh oh. I was like, wow, this feels like we said the ending too soon. Okay.
Em Schulz: I assumed you time traveled back with me to what is the present of the story?
Christine Schiefer: I did, but I was turned the wrong way, so you had to turn my shoulders the other direction I went. Oh, got it. Okay. So now he's in pr... Or now in the story he's in prison. Then he gets furloughed and then he goes to visit Bob and Jeannie.
Em Schulz: Yes.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Yes.
Christine Schiefer: His friends.
Em Schulz: Um. He did not wanna stay with his own parents, even though he was released for his grandfather's funeral because he knew that his whole family would be reminiscing about his grandfather and how much they miss him and wanting to talk about all the good memories. But he actually fucking hated his grandfather.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I love that he got furlough for the funeral then.
Em Schulz: Me too. He was like, I'll do anything to get out.
Christine Schiefer: Do you think they ask you, like, were you close with him? Oh yeah. [laughter] just loved the guy.
Em Schulz: It's like he raised me. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Um, but no, he hated this guy because apparently since he was a little kid, uh, the grandfather was like severely abusing him.
Christine Schiefer: Ugh. God. Okay.
Em Schulz: So a good reason to set a boundary for yourself and say, I don't wanna be near people who are speaking fondly of him.
Christine Schiefer: Absolutely.
Em Schulz: Not my thing. Um, but so he goes to the funeral and that's kind of that part of the story. So he goes to the funeral, he now goes back to his friend's house, and while he's on the second floor bathroom, he looks out the window and a face is floating outside the window. It's the second. It's the second story. So it's floating two stories up.
Christine Schiefer: Watching him pee pee.
Em Schulz: Watching him make little peeps. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. God. What a creep.
Em Schulz: And laughing at him.
Christine Schiefer: Grandpa.
Em Schulz: Oh, maybe it wasn't, well see, we don't know who it was actually. Um, Don himself did think it might be his grandpa.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: But he's not, he didn't say it in the moment when he saw the face, he was like, oh, that's grandpa. But he saw the face and in hindsight he's like, I think this whole story is my grandfather abusing me one last time.
Christine Schiefer: Cursing me.
Em Schulz: Essentially.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: So he sees an old man's face floating outside the window. He's laughing, he's wearing a crown, which we learn nothing more about.
Christine Schiefer: The figure is wearing a crown?
Em Schulz: Yeah. I feel like that is something we should have explored.
Christine Schiefer: Hello? That feels important. Yep.
Em Schulz: Um, like is it a prince who's laughing at me?
Christine Schiefer: Is it the Prince of Darkness? [laughter] Like, is it Lucifer coming off the throne? You know.
Em Schulz: It, it, it's just, can you, it's actually kind of such an honor that he couldn't even like take his.
Christine Schiefer: That's what I'm saying, his royal garments [laughter],
Em Schulz: He couldn't take his garments off. He just had to, he had to get to town and laugh at you.
Christine Schiefer: And at the, I was at the Bengals camp with my brother the other day and I literally just said, you know how the emperor, the nude emperor? And he's like, what? And I was like, the nude emperor. He didn't have clothes. And Alexander was like, what the fuck are you talking about? And I was like, the story of that naked guy. And I started screaming it 'cause I was so mad. And I said, haven't you heard about the Emperor's New clothes? And he goes, yeah, but I didn't like know the story. And I was like, it's about a naked emperor. Can you get with the fucking program? And he's like, it surely isn't about a naked emperor. I was like, no, it surely is. Anyway, he didn't believe me. So now I'm just all worked up about it. But yeah, that, it just strike me as something a little odd to where your crown to, to haunt somebody.
Em Schulz: I got into a similar argument with somebody, uh, who didn't believe that the emperor's new groove was based on the emperor's new clothes.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. I mean, I think I sort of knew that subconsciously, but I didn't really put it together until you just said it.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Somebody was like.
Christine Schiefer: Which makes sense.
Em Schulz: Somebody was like, no, that's just similar by accident.
Christine Schiefer: No, no, no. I knew the name. Yeah, definitely. Why else would it be called the Emperor's new blank?
Em Schulz: Anything?
Christine Schiefer: That doesn't make any sense.
Em Schulz: Yeah. No, no, no.
Christine Schiefer: So was it Alexander? 'cause I'm ready to, I'm really ready to clock him this time if he's arguing.
Em Schulz: Uh, it was actually that 95-year-old little bitch with the tennis balls.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Honestly, uh, as far as I'm concerned, they could both go down.
Em Schulz: Okay. Great. Perfect. Uh, so anyway, he sees maybe the Prince of Darkness, maybe the emperor.
Christine Schiefer: Maybe that old ass lady. [laughter]
Em Schulz: And, um, he goes downstairs, but apparently at this point, once he saw the face, he was acting really fucking weird. It's almost as if the second their eyes connected, something switched in him.
Christine Schiefer: Uh. Oh.
Em Schulz: He goes downstairs, his friends see blood on his arm.
Christine Schiefer: Ah.
Em Schulz: And casually he's like, oh yeah, it was probably the man in the window. [laughter] Which is, it's as casual as if you fucking said something [laughter] Like, because you would do that shit to me. I sent you up a meme yesterday, I don't know if you saw it.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I haven't opened it yet. No, I saw you sent something.
Em Schulz: It said, I'm kind of like those dogs that get hit by cars and then are totally fine.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I know just turned the wrong way. And then Em has to turn me around and go, oh, that's the cars coming from that direction.
Em Schulz: It's just like, okay. I don't know how you survived that but okay.
Christine Schiefer: It's fine, it's not a big deal. I dunno why you're harping on this. I don't know why you're...
Em Schulz: If anything, it's just embarrassing? Just like stop talking about it.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Stop talking about, I don't wanna go to the hospital. There's that crazy old lady there just in the waiting room, [laughter] God.
Em Schulz: And then you, like, two weeks later you're like, I have a cracked hip. And I don't know how that happened.
Christine Schiefer: I can't figure out why all my teeth are falling out. Yeah, exactly. [laughter] That sounds right.
Em Schulz: Okay, so he says, oh yeah. So that it was obviously the man in the window who.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: Who scratched me.
Christine Schiefer: Standard.
Em Schulz: And his friends were like, what the fuck are you talking about [laughter]? And soon he goes into a full blown trance-like state.
Christine Schiefer: Uh-oh.
Em Schulz: I wonder if they were like, well, we've only known him for a few months. Maybe he's got like narcolepsy or some shit. Like.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. And his, the wife is like, I fucking told you not to let him stay here like you. I swear to God, never again.
Em Schulz: I I did wonder. I was like, the two friends at, at the end of this story were like, okay, we're not making any more friends for a while.
Christine Schiefer: Never. No. It's just you and me. We're we're done with all these people. Yeah.
Em Schulz: So, uh, Bob and Jeannie are like, okay, he just kinda like fell asleep in front of us. That's kind of crazy. Uh, but I guess we'll just sit here. But then they realized that all of a sudden the room had like a dripping water coming from the ceiling. And I think maybe at first they were like, okay, well he just used the bathroom. Maybe the pipes are fucked up. And now the we have water damage upstairs.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: When I tell you that the ceiling was dripping, I mean the entire ceiling.
Christine Schiefer: Ew.
Em Schulz: Was like raining.
Christine Schiefer: Ew.
Em Schulz: Um, and they started watching this. They didn't know what to do, and they said that it was coming out kind of like mist, but there was so much that their entire room was getting drenched.
Christine Schiefer: What the fuck?
Em Schulz: Bob and Jeannie call their landlord because they still don't think anything paranormal about this. They think it must be something with the house, which I don't know how you do that. I, I mean.
Christine Schiefer: Honestly, I would. I think we would, we would be more concerned that it was, I feel like you'd, it seems scary, almost scarier in the moment of like, is the roof about to fall in on me?
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Because something's leaking.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Which like, I love that they didn't actually leave the house when they, uh, were waiting for their landlord to come over.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: They just got an umbrella. Like what'd they do? Just sit there.
Em Schulz: You just sit there and just let it drench you.
Christine Schiefer: But imagine if it's raining outside too, and then you're like, well fuck. Now it's like nowhere is safe. [laughter]
Em Schulz: It's like now what do we do? Well, what's interesting actually there would've been a safe spot because only this room in their house was doing this.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, okay. Okay.
Em Schulz: So if they walked like two feet into the kitchen.
Christine Schiefer: Retire to the kitchen.
Em Schulz: It was dry as a bone.
Christine Schiefer: Gotcha.
Em Schulz: Um, so they call their landlord, who I love this. His name is Ron Van Why. Like why [laughter] W-H-Y.
Christine Schiefer: Like, like for why you know?
[laughter]
Em Schulz: And he obviously didn't know what was going on either. He was like, I'm just a fucking landlord. Can you imagine being a landlord? Yuck. First of all. But also then you walk around and you're like, uh, the room is raining from the inside and I'm supposed to fix this.
Christine Schiefer: Right. Landlord school did not prepare me for this. Yeah.
Em Schulz: It made no sense why water would be coming from those spots. He confirmed there were no pipes in those parts of the house. And that's when Ron noticed that it wasn't just water falling down, it was also seeping up and going sideways.
Christine Schiefer: Huh.
Em Schulz: Water was fully defying gravity.
Christine Schiefer: What the fuck?
Em Schulz: They said they remember a droplet literally going past them like, like a movie where like, the bullet is going slow motion.
Christine Schiefer: Ew.
Em Schulz: And they're just like, what the fuck do we do? So all three of them are freaking out. I just, I like to imagine, I, they're obviously, this is not the scenario, but the way I envision it in my head is they're all kind of gay squealing. There's like, ah.
Christine Schiefer: Did you see that? [laughter]?
Em Schulz: Ah. But they're making such a fuss regardless of how it sounds. They're making such a commotion that the, um, there's a restaurant owner nearby. She's walking down the street and she hears them. So she runs into the house being like, what's going on? She's in there now. Also gay squealing with them. [laughter], they call the police. Three officers come in, they're gay squealing about this. [laughter] Like everyone's fully fucking panicking.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no.
Em Schulz: Like, nobody knows what to do. So now there's like seven people in there, and of course Don is just like unconscious on the, on the couch, unaware of all this. [laughter] has nobody shaken him to be like, dude, you have to see this.
Christine Schiefer: You're getting soaking wet. You're rain, you're laying in the rainstorm.
Em Schulz: I know. Like, anyway, so there's a bunch of people around this sleeping trance-like, man, all freaking out about the water going sideways. They don't know what to do. And uh, Pam, the restaurant owner across the street, she said, let's all just go to my restaurant. I like that She was like, let's lemme make some money outta this.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was like, yeah, it's not, not on the, not on the house. To be clear, everybody.
Em Schulz: She was like, let's all go to the restaurant. Let's just sit down for a second and like talk this out and figure out what's going on in your house. Which I, I do love the sense of community here where everyone's like, let's rally together and discuss.
Christine Schiefer: There's a safe space over here. Yeah.
Em Schulz: So they all go to the restaurant and as they're trying to figure it out, Pam is on top of it. Pam is like, um, that's fucking demonic for sure. Mm-Hmm. And just to prove it, I don't know if it was intentional at first, but she said it was demonic. She had a rosary with her and she just put it on Don because she was like, it's weird that he slept through that whole thing and we were freaking out loud enough that he should have woken up.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: So, so she puts a rosary on him while they're at the restaurant and he kind of wakes up from his trance, rips it off of him and throws it on the ground and says, that was burning my skin.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. Yeah. He's probably like, why did you put hot tongs on me? And they're like, that was not a fucking barbecue grill. That was a rosary.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Ooh.
Em Schulz: No thank you. Uh, so anyway, so they go, uh, from that point, Pam is like, yeah, something's fucking demonic. I called it immediately I clocked that shit. You need to call a church. Right as she said, we need to go to the church, or you need to call the church or something about calling a priest, all of a sudden Don kind of went back into his trance and her restaurant started dripping water everywhere.
Christine Schiefer: No.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Not good.
Christine Schiefer: I like how it was not the rosary that did it. It was her suggesting that a priest get involved.
Em Schulz: Which I do kind of love the, um, the fire and ice equivalent of like, oh, it's burning you.
Christine Schiefer: Ooh. Yeah.
Em Schulz: And also water.
Christine Schiefer: I kind of like that too. That's cool.
Em Schulz: I don't know what it means though. And I've never heard of a demon whose only superpower they give you is mist.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: And not in like the spooky way either. Like water, you know.
Christine Schiefer: It just rain.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Anyway, so she said, okay, you need to call a church. And then her ceiling started raining and she was like, now you have to also leave my restaurant 'cause you're giving me water damage.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So they, Don and his friends go back to the friend's house and when they get there they realize that, um, there, like it had been evaporating. As soon as they left the water went away.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: So as soon as Don, Don was out of the room, the water was no more. And Ron and his wife, who by name by the way, her name is Romaine. So Romaine Van Why love that.
Christine Schiefer: What a great name.
Em Schulz: Sounds like it's from like a Transylvania.
Christine Schiefer: Romaine Van Why. Yeah. It's really nice. It's really nice.
Em Schulz: Well, uh, Ron and Romaine, the husband and wife pair, uh, they're still there as the landlords trying to figure out what happened here. But the water has evaporated, so they never even got to take pictures of what was going on, which becomes a thing for skeptics later. They're like, nobody took a fucking picture. But also it was 1983, no one had a cell phone. You know.
Christine Schiefer: 1983. Yeah. Nobody's thinking, oh, immediately snap a picture of this. Yeah.
Em Schulz: No, that's become an impulse thought now.
Christine Schiefer: That was the day when school pictures were still important. Remember? [laughter]
Em Schulz: It was, yeah. It was like, well, we have one good picture.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: No camera. So sorry. Just remember it with your brain.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Um, [laughter] But so they're trying to fix the pipes. Don and his friends come back in and right away, as soon as Don walks in, it starts raining again.
Christine Schiefer: Oh boy.
Em Schulz: So it's whatever room he's in, the ceiling starts dripping. And when they start freaking out and being like, is this a prank? Like, you have to tell us 'cause we're really getting freaked out.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: That's when the pots and pans in the kitchen start clinging like crazy. And then Don is lifted off the floor by nothing.
Em Schulz: Uh-oh.
Em Schulz: And is thrown backwards into the wall.
Christine Schiefer: Gasp.
Em Schulz: And he's thrown with the force, with a force as if he were a newborn baby. And this was the strongest man in the whole wide world. Like he was ragdolled into the wall. Um, the police come back, but the police are like, what the fuck am I gonna do about this? So, uh, they're just fascinated, but there's nothing they can really do. They bring the chief with them this time, because I think, I imagine at like the police headquarters that day, the three who came in and saw it raining sideways were like, chief, oh my God, it's amazing. And the chief was like, I have three wackadoos on my force.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Now I gotta rehire everybody and fire you. Yeah. [laughter] Might as well come check it out for yourself.
Em Schulz: So the, the chief did come with them because he's like, I gotta see this. And now they're, they're being called back to the house. I have to go. He goes, he wants no fucking part of this. He even tells his officers, don't involve me in this anymore. Don't write a report about it. I don't ever wanna hear you mention this ever again. And I don't know if it's 'cause he was freaked out or if it's because he was just like a stubborn man who didn't wanna believe that this was anything but a hoax.
Christine Schiefer: Right. It could be both. Maybe. Like, he's like, Nope, nope, nope. Gotta stick with my preconceived notions.
Em Schulz: It, it could be any of that. But he basically told his officers, I want nothing to do with this. And as my, as my employees, you are also not allowed to be doing anything about this. You have to go work on real police stuff.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: All three of the officers are like, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: And then he, and then the chief leaves and goes back to the office and the three officers stay behind and they're fucking losing their minds. They're geeking out over this [laughter], they're so obsessed with this case. They even came back with a crucifix to see, like, they'd heard that one of them burned him. So they were like, can you hold this and see if it burns again? Oh. So he holds it and then he throws it on the ground. He's like, ah, it burned my hand. And when they went to, when one of the officers went to grab the crucifix again, it was like they said, very hot to the touch as if it had just been burning.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, intriguing.
Em Schulz: One of them even came up with the idea to put a bag on his head to put a bag on Don's head to make sure that the water wasn't coming from him spitting across the room, because his only thought was the only water I've ever seen move horizontal is when it comes to someone's mouth. So maybe you're spitting, but also the whole place is drenched. It's like you only have so much spit in your body.
Christine Schiefer: First of all, what a fucking hose. But alright [laughter], I guess spit makes water go sideways too.
Em Schulz: I kind of got the vibe that these three officers were like newly on the force and just like.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, they're given, like, they're probably given like the, the dumb story. Like, oh, they're saying there's water leaking from the ceiling that's on you rookie cops to go handle. You know.
Em Schulz: I feel like they were kind of, they had frat boy energy and they were just like, I don't know what this is. And they were just trying to test it however they could, but didn't totally think it all the way through.
Christine Schiefer: Put bag on his head. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Put a bag on his head.
Christine Schiefer: I, I guess, I guess we can try it.
Em Schulz: You might as well try everything if nothing makes sense. So anyway, they were very obsessed with it. Um, but the room still obviously kept misting even with a bag on Don's head. And the officers, uh, didn't really have anything they could do. They were just like, I don't know man. Good luck. Like.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: I mean, what would you do at that point? So Don was even concerned now that the police were saying there was nothing to be helpful. The landlord said there was nothing that they, that they could do. And Don did try to reach out to local churches and he did have to put the caveat, remember like, I'm on furlough, so like I can only be helped for a certain amount of days and then I'm going back to jail. So if you wanna help me, it has to be like now.
Christine Schiefer: Hmm.
Em Schulz: And of course, every single priest turned him away. This is where I finally get to say, after a long hiatus, thanks priests.
Christine Schiefer: No. Hey, the priest turned him away. Thanks a fucking lot.
Em Schulz: And his friends were able to find at least one preacher who would pray over Don. And the praying actually made Don like convulse in a fetal position.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no.
Em Schulz: And he said that afterwards his body felt more relaxed and like it seemed to work. But, um, when Don's furlough was up and he went back to prison, he was just sitting there in a cell thinking about what had happened in the last few days. And like, if he had this ability and if he could do it again, how, how would he be able to like manifest that to prove that it, it really was something within him.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-Hmm.
Em Schulz: And as he was just thinking that it began to rain in his jail cell.
Christine Schiefer: I knew it. I was like, when's it gonna start raining [laughter] Oh my God.
Em Schulz: And of course his cellmate is like, get me the fuck outta here. Like.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: What the fuck?
Em Schulz: Somehow, somehow the scariest thing that guy's probably seen.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: In jail.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Um. He like really was begging the COs to like, let him out of the room. He was so freaked out.
Christine Schiefer: Sheesh.
Em Schulz: Um, and the prison even assumed that Don must have messed with the pipes in the walls or like damaged his cell to cause some sort of leak.
Christine Schiefer: Oh man.
Em Schulz: Like they did not believe that. I mean, why would you believe that? So.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: They were like some, you've, you've done something structural to this place for this to be happening. But Don insisted he was just in control of the rain. And when they told him to prove it, he made all of the officer's offices rain.
Christine Schiefer: Wait he could control it.
Em Schulz: All at once. Mm-Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Ooh, intriguing. Okay. Plot twist.
Em Schulz: I guess just to prove that he could, or they were like, oh, I bet you can't. And he was like, I mean, I just did it over there. That's why we're having this conversation, but, okay. And one, uh, one officer was even in a separate office doing paperwork. And so he's doing paperwork by himself, other officers who have already seen this whole thing happening where like things are now raining from the indoors.
Christine Schiefer: Uh-huh.
Em Schulz: They've run in to tell him, they're like, Hey, stop doing your paperwork. You have to, you have to come see this. And he was like, what's going on? The other officers point at his shirt and they're like, you're literally drenched with water. How did you not how did you not feel that?
Christine Schiefer: Are you serious? He's just sitting there getting rained on. He is like, what's, what's going on out there?
Em Schulz: He had no idea. I guess he was just that into his paperwork.
Christine Schiefer: So focused.
Em Schulz: Um, but then all of a sudden he realized he was covered in water and he was like, what the fuck's going on? And I'm sure the other officers left the room at that point going, it's happening in here too.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Like he's, he's totally, he's totally wet with water. Um, so the officer...
Christine Schiefer: And the chief of police is like, oh my god, herding cats around here. You know.
Em Schulz: It's like, I literally said, never mention this again.
Christine Schiefer: Jesus.
Em Schulz: Now the entire jail is talking about this.
Christine Schiefer: It's all we're talking about.
Em Schulz: Uh, the officers swore to him that Don was controlling the rain in his cell. And now in all of our offices and while explaining that these, while these officers are talking to each other, a large blob of water floated through the hall, around the corner towards the officers and splashed them.
Christine Schiefer: Stop.
Em Schulz: Like, this feels like Slimer from Ghostbusters or something...
Christine Schiefer: I was gonna say, it feels like a silly movie, like a paranormal movie. It's like a blob coming to get you.
Em Schulz: Totally.
Christine Schiefer: Like flubber or something.
Em Schulz: This feels like it cannot be real. This.
Christine Schiefer: Crazy.
Em Schulz: So the more skeptical officers, they were like, uh, well what do we do? We can't tell him to leave. 'cause he's literally in prison. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah. We could tell him to leave, but like, no [laughter]
Em Schulz: Yeah. Or like, do we just put him in like the do we lock him up in a shower where.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God, do we do like...
Em Schulz: It's supposed to be wet all the time.
Christine Schiefer: Oh right. Yeah. Just stay in the shower. But also if he can control it, then he could probably send it down the hall, you know?
Em Schulz: Right. And also like, think about the long-term effects. Think of how like pruny all your skin's gonna be if it's just always raining wherever you are. So.
Christine Schiefer: And like, you don't even know if it's like clean water or like.
Em Schulz: Yeah. What if, where is he getting?
Em Schulz: Can you drink it?
Em Schulz: The water from? Yeah. Like I would love for them to do scientific tests on the water.
Christine Schiefer: I do too. I'm curious, like.
Em Schulz: Is he just take, you know how like frozone from the Incredibles, he's accessing water that's nearby. Like he's...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Em Schulz: Like he's using water from the water fountain or whatever.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Like what if you're in the bathroom, are you just using bathroom toilet water?
Christine Schiefer: Right. Ew. Is like, is there a drought in town? Are you able to fix that? If there is a drought.
Em Schulz: Interesting.
Christine Schiefer: You know, are you able to add water to the world.
Em Schulz: It's like that running, that running question of like, could Spider-Man be Spider-Man in an area without buildings or trees? 'cause you can't shoot your webs to. You can't swing on anything.
Christine Schiefer: Interesting. Yeah.
Em Schulz: You just have to.
Christine Schiefer: What would you do?
Em Schulz: Like if you were in a field, how do you be Spider-Man, you just run. Oh, you, you can't swing.
Christine Schiefer: Just run.
Em Schulz: So it's like, what if you're in an area with nothing? But I guess could you access water from the ground? Like a frog or something.
Christine Schiefer: Or from, from the air. Like just any.
Em Schulz: Oh yeah moisture.
Christine Schiefer: Any humidity in the air. Yeah.
Em Schulz: With enough focus. Could you channel your power to eventually like shift clouds and like.
Christine Schiefer: Ooh.
Em Schulz: Be involved with the weather. Like what if there's a storm? Could you make a storm?
Christine Schiefer: Like could you make a hurricane? Yeah.
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: So many questions. We would be the most fucking annoying people at any of these invest. We'd be like, wait, we have like four, we only have one more question except it's a 600 part question. So give us a minute.
Em Schulz: That's... That's actually hysterical. Yeah. Could you recycle your own sweat? You know what I'm saying?
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: Like, tears drool. Could you never drool again? Could you prevent water? Just like how you can create water?
Christine Schiefer: Can you make sure that nobody... That you don't get wet? Like, can you make like a little dry patch or you know.
Em Schulz: Can you always refill your own bottle?
Christine Schiefer: Oh, can you drown someone? Like are you able to kill somebody.
Em Schulz: From the... From the inside out? Now that's...
Christine Schiefer: From the inside.
Em Schulz: I mean, if you can do it from an inside a room, you can technically do it from inside a human. Right?
Christine Schiefer: That's so scary. It's raining in my soul.
Em Schulz: That's actually such a scary superpower once you think about how...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. What the fuck.
Em Schulz: If he learned how to master it what would be... What he'd be capable of.
Christine Schiefer: It's like controlling the air. Like you shouldn't be able to do that.
Em Schulz: And water can feel like bullets. I mean, it can feel like concrete if you jump on it from too far up. Or like if you're jet skiing too fast...
Christine Schiefer: If you water boarding someone.
Em Schulz: And it hits you in the eyes.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Yeah certainly.
Christine Schiefer: Torturing someone.
Em Schulz: Certainly if you're torturing somebody like... Okay, let's get back to this. So...
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: The, the more skeptical officers, again, they're like, we can't release him. He has to be here.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: Umm, so what do we do? And they're like I guess we call a plumber and see like what he's got going on 'cause he's probably more equipped than this than us. The plumber walks in, I guess senses something walks straight back out and he goes...
Christine Schiefer: What?
Em Schulz: Don't ever call me again.
Christine Schiefer: What?
Em Schulz: Uh, he... I, I am assuming he saw the room where water was going sideways.
Christine Schiefer: He didn't explain himself?
Em Schulz: No.
Christine Schiefer: Oh man.
Em Schulz: I imagined he just saw water in, in all directions and he was like, I can't fucking control that.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Fuck this.
Em Schulz: This was the moment that Don no longer felt scared but powerful of his new found abilities.
Christine Schiefer: Ooh.
Em Schulz: And, and also powerful in general because uh, apparently the abuse he suffered during childhood from his grandfather, uh, he said if he always wanted to be able to fight off that kind of evil.
Christine Schiefer: Aaw.
Em Schulz: So he was taking this as like a sign that he now had a superpower.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. So it's like his grandfather died and he like got the superpower.
Em Schulz: Especially because if you think about the old man face in the window, it's like he died you went to the funeral and then maybe you saw him in the window and now you've got this thing going on.
Christine Schiefer: Gasp.
Christine Schiefer: Freaky.
Em Schulz: So the plumber was like Nope, I don't wanna do this. So the officers decided to also try checking out like priests or a reverend or someone to come visit. And Reverend Blackburn agreed to meet with Don who believed that Don was just acting up.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, sure. Thanks dad. Whatever you said.
Em Schulz: Again. Thanks priest. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Thanks priest. Oh my God.
Em Schulz: So he told Don that the easiest thing he could do at this point is just admit that he staged the whole thing. And if you're talking to me or Christine, you'll hear different versions of this. But the jig is up.
Christine Schiefer: The jig is up.
Em Schulz: The, the gig is up.
Christine Schiefer: The gig is up. All right. Everybody relax.
Em Schulz: Uh, Don said, oh, I'm staging this whole thing. Oh really now.
Christine Schiefer: Oh really?
Em Schulz: So, so he raised his hand and began to rub his thumbs and fingers. It's like he's learned his motion now.
Christine Schiefer: Yes like Spider-Man. Like he has like a certain...
Em Schulz: Like Spiderman.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God.
Em Schulz: So he raises his hand and rain comes from the ceiling in the walls.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God.
Em Schulz: And what's super interesting about this that nobody else had clocked yet is that when the reverend experienced this he realized that as the water was being conjured he smelled something.
Christine Schiefer: Huh?
Em Schulz: And he was like I think he... This is where he believed that that Don was connected to something malevolent. Because when the water was being conjured or he was accessing this other world he smelled the smell of a terminal patient right before they die.
Christine Schiefer: Gasp.
Christine Schiefer: Hello. What a weirdly creepy specific thing.
Em Schulz: Which I also wonder if that was a smell maybe his grandfather was giving off right before he died or something.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. I wonder. That's really kind of...
Em Schulz: Or if he's just like into like necromancy some sort of something. I don't know. But, umm...
Christine Schiefer: Well that's really disturbing.
Em Schulz: He was like he apparently he's also been around that enough where he knows the smell so.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Well if you're a Reverend and maybe you're doing your last rights.
Christine Schiefer: I know I guess he does a lot of last... Yeah. Something like that where he would know the smell. But like I have to imagine that's a very distinct smell. Kind of like hospital is a very, you know. Yeah. And when you're used to that you probably are able to like pinpoint it.
Em Schulz: Yeah I guess so 'cause also like I know the smell of death, but I don't know the smell specifically of a terminal patient right before the death.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. That's a very... That seems like a very specific, specific one.
Em Schulz: But it does sound like only doctors and people who give last rights would know what that smells like though.
Christine Schiefer: Who, who spend a lot of time like in hospice or yeah.
Em Schulz: So after noticing that the rain got heavier and began to seep into the room.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. How scary that it's after noticing it like that's so scary. Yeah. 'cause it's almost like your mind shifts a teeny bit. You can't even control it. You're just like I know that...
Em Schulz: It's like the...
Christine Schiefer: And then it like...
Em Schulz: It's like the energy was intelligent to what you knew.
Christine Schiefer: Yes. Ooh. That's so freaky.
Em Schulz: So the reverend is like oh shit. He opens up his Bible. And the pages interestingly always stayed dry despite everything else in the room getting wet.
Christine Schiefer: Shut up. Uh.
Em Schulz: I literally have chills. That's so freaky.
Christine Schiefer: I do too... I wasn't gonna say it 'cause I felt like a nerd going to Catholic school bitching about it for 20 years and then being like, I have chills about the Bible. Umm, but that's freaky. That is freaky.
Em Schulz: Sometimes the... You know the Lord works in mysterious ways, as they say. So.
Christine Schiefer: That's what they say. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Oh, by the way, while we're here sorry, intermission. Umm, I.
Christine Schiefer: We do have an... We have an intermission to talk about the Lord. Hold on.
Em Schulz: Let's go to the lobby. So okay, here's what I have to...
Christine Schiefer: Let's go to the chapel.
Em Schulz: Here's what I have to say about the Lord. You're not gonna like it. Well, you'll like it. Others won't.
Christine Schiefer: Not gonna like it. Uh-oh.
Em Schulz: Two different things. One, uh, I have a...
Christine Schiefer: Em just sent a bunch of balloons into the... Em did a, a two... A number two but peace sign. And like it was like oh, okay, time to celebrate. Let's send balloons into the screen. Which is very funny 'cause Em texted me and Eva the other day and said Hey, just so you know, my mom learned how to add screen effects to her text. So if you get a text from her with a screen effect just be prepared. And she did send one with balloons. And now here you are Em accidentally sending balloons. I feel like it runs in the family.
Em Schulz: Well as you say that, uh, I will, I'll change my two things to three things. Uh, number one Christie and Eva were very sweet. They uh, sent my whole family New York bagels and a whole lot of yummy treats this week. And the bagels are already gone. You sent them two days ago.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, that was, that was an Eva idea. I was very... I was like, Eva you nailed it. Nailed it.
Em Schulz: The Bagels are gone. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Good as it should be.
Em Schulz: And also you happened to pick the store that my mom like has a lot of childhood memories from. It's very...
Christine Schiefer: That was, that felt very special. Yes. Yes.
Em Schulz: Umm, number two, I have a friend that I was very close with in college and umm, while, while I've been home... They didn't know it was while I was home but I was, I was texting them because they have, umm, recently fallen into umm, very intense evangelicalism which...
Christine Schiefer: Whoa.
Em Schulz: Yeah. So trying to navigate that. It's not looking good. Umm.
Christine Schiefer: Uh, uh-oh.
Em Schulz: I just said something... Something came up where it was an inside joke about us from college way before this was part of their life. I was like oh, I was just thinking of you. I got, I tried to get... Well, I didn't she tried to fucking save me.
Christine Schiefer: No.
Em Schulz: In the text and asked if I wanted to learn more about her Christ. And I went oh my God. Okay. So...
Christine Schiefer: No thanks.
Em Schulz: That tells me exactly what I need to know about that.
Christine Schiefer: No thanks.
Em Schulz: Umm, and then the third thing about the Lord. Oh, the place where we're currently renting a walker from where... So Tom currently needs a walker. He's gonna be fine. He currently needs a walker.
Christine Schiefer: With tennis balls.
Em Schulz: With tennis balls. I... He's also 95 and he said a lot of transphobic shit to me in the waiting room.
Christine Schiefer: And he's also an old lady. Wait a minute.
Em Schulz: If he pulled the mask he was just like he had to walk going on.
Christine Schiefer: Hang on, hang on.
Em Schulz: Umm, he... So I had to go to this place to get a walker. Okay. And one of the things I had to do to sign out a walker was write down my testimony of the Lord.
Christine Schiefer: Wait, pardon?
Em Schulz: It... That... It was the most anti LA thing I've ever experienced.
Christine Schiefer: Excuse me. Wait, okay. Where were you?
Em Schulz: It was a... It was a place that, that gives you, umm, medical equipment.
Christine Schiefer: Why?
Em Schulz: I don't know. Okay. I don't have an answer for you. Okay. I don't have an answer for you. But, uh, they asked me, uh, what works the Lord has done for me this week. And I was like...
Christine Schiefer: That.
Em Schulz: Well, I've been at a hospital all week so not much.
Christine Schiefer: I know for real like, hello I'm getting a walker. Things aren't great right now. Thanks a lot.
Em Schulz: Anyway, Virginia is like the bad place.
Christine Schiefer: Hey, what's going on over there my friend? I'm in Kentucky and things aren't so dire. You know.
Em Schulz: It's, it's the bad place currently.
Christine Schiefer: Oof.
Em Schulz: Umm, at least the, the spaces I've been in. So that's what the Lord has taught me this week.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, I was gonna say, maybe I'm just used to being at home all the time. Maybe I should just stay home all the time. You know I feel like.
Em Schulz: Maybe so.
Christine Schiefer: This doesn't seem like really...
Em Schulz: Between the campaign ads, that little old stupid woman and this hospital and then the random text asking if I wanted to be saved. I was like I've got to go back home. This is crazy.
Christine Schiefer: You've got to get out of here. Yeah, sorry.
Em Schulz: Umm, yeah, it was a, it was, that was its own whole reason why I drank.
Christine Schiefer: That's bananas.
Em Schulz: Okay. Intermissions over, umm, back to the Lord in this way. So the Bible does not get wet. Umm, which...
Christine Schiefer: That's. That's pretty weird.
Em Schulz: My friend.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, we should've told them that.
Em Schulz: My friend... I know. I was gonna say my friend who texted me would probably be like, see...
Christine Schiefer: Told you.
Em Schulz: So the reverend prayed over Don with his very dry bible. Uh, it's usually dry and nevermind. Okay... Umm. [laughter] He prayed. He prayed over Don and...
Christine Schiefer: I see you. I see you.
Em Schulz: He prayed over Don. Eventually the rain actually did stop. And I know I'm talking a lot of shit right now about the Lord but whatever this reverend did actually did work. Oh. So, uh, the rain stopped after enough prayer. They didn't say how long. I'm always curious if it's hours or minutes.
Christine Schiefer: Right, me too.
Em Schulz: Or those really old stories where it's like we prayed for days and we all took shifts holding them down you know.
Christine Schiefer: 40 days and 40 nights.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: And I always... I'm always curious like I would love to know the number. I feel like numbers are more important than we give credit. Like maybe it was symbolic you know?
Em Schulz: Mm-Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: I don't know.
Em Schulz: Yeah, totally. I mean the... I feel like the water was symbolic and I don't know how but maybe it's like anti holy water. I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: Like where you're like, I don't know now... I don't know how, but I'm gonna come up with some possibil... Some possible ideas.
Em Schulz: You know I love to think and Yap umm...
Christine Schiefer: Think maybe, well, yeah. Anyway. Yeah at least. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Yap for sure.
Christine Schiefer: Yap, for sure.
Em Schulz: Don was actually relieved from this ability situation after enough prayer with this reverend.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: He then I guess completed his sentence and was released. But nothing else happened in the prison which I feel like he probably got made fun of after it was over. I feel like there was some inside joke.
Christine Schiefer: There had to be a joke or like a nickname at the very least. Right. Like some sort of nickname. Rain Man?
Em Schulz: Someone... Someone needed... They literally call him Rain Man.
Christine Schiefer: No, they don't.
Em Schulz: It's depending on who or what source. It's either Rain Man or Rain Boy. But yes you're onto it. Yes.
Christine Schiefer: I guess the movie hadn't come out yet so I don't think that would've been that, that source of it, but the Rain Man is good.
Em Schulz: You know there was someone who, if they needed a cup of water, they'd be like, fill me up. Like, they would say something.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, it'd be so annoying. So annoying. Yeah.
Em Schulz: He'd be like, oh my God, shut up. Umm, anyway, he completed his sentence. There are to this day nine witnesses...
Christine Schiefer: Wow.
Em Schulz: In interviews and televisions who swear that all this was legit. The only eyewitness to deny anything was that police chief who was a real dry blanket, umm, not wet blanket Wait, wet blanket. Shit... He was a real wet blanket.
Christine Schiefer: He was a dry blanket.
Em Schulz: Every. Every... The other nine were dry.
Christine Schiefer: Everybody else was a wet blanket. Yeah.
Em Schulz: The irony, the only way he was wet in this story was as a blanket. So.
Christine Schiefer: Wow.
Em Schulz: Uh, but officers, the, the, the three who like swear that they saw all of it and they were like freaking out when they went into the house they still say all that shit happened. One of them even was quoted recently saying I saw it. That's all there is to this.
Christine Schiefer: Damn.
Em Schulz: And one of the nine witnesses say that this was not possession, but a stressed induced telekinesis. Okay. Umm that's as realistic to me as a possession. So...
Christine Schiefer: Uh. Actually I find that more realistic.
Em Schulz: You do?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Explain yourself, speak on that.
Christine Schiefer: Well I don't know. I think telekinesis things like that are... I, I believe in them. And so I think like you can access that kind of power. I don't necessarily believe in a Christian demon, so I'm like, well, I kind of lean toward like some other metaphysical.
Em Schulz: I wonder if umm, like, like what was, I wonder what the stress was that induced this? Because if it was just that like your... Your.
Christine Schiefer: Well I mean if your...
Em Schulz: I guess his abuser just died.
Christine Schiefer: If your abuser dies and you're like coping... You're like also...
Em Schulz: And you're in jail.
Christine Schiefer: Out of prison for two days and like, it's for this kind of scary, horrific milestone event. Yeah. I imagine it would be probably pretty overwhelming.
Em Schulz: Well, only one of them said anything about it being stress induced but I did think that was interesting because I don't know where he stood religiously before about being possessed.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: I mean I guess it doesn't matter what you believe in anyone. In my mind I think anyone can be possessed. Like, we all know how I feel about the Lord and I think I could be possessed, you know? So.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Umm, I don't know. I I guess it's up to any anyone's opinion on what actually happened. There's no true theory that works about like the structure of the house or the jail or the restaurant. Umm, it's just too weird to explain. It's, it's an unsolved mystery. Some might say.
Christine Schiefer: I guess so. And so this was on Unsolved Mysteries too?
Em Schulz: Mm-Hmm. It was...
Christine Schiefer: I haven't seen it.
Em Schulz: I think season 15.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I wanna watch that. That would be interesting to see how they covered it.
Em Schulz: Umm, and skeptics often say oh I already said this. Like, why don't they have any pictures of it? But nobody had a camera around like that back then. And uh, Don apparently not only levitated the one time I mentioned but he was... He allegedly levitated multiple times and was scratched one of the times the scratch was in the shape of a cross.
Christine Schiefer: Ooh. Okay. That gives you a little indication, huh?
Em Schulz: Yeah. So anyway he was featured 10 years after the incident on Unsolved Mysteries and became known as either Rain Man or Rain Boy based on the source you look at. And years after that we never really hear much about him again. But in 2012 he was back in jail because he was arrested on federal arson charges.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no. A little fire water. Kind of weird.
Em Schulz: I literally put that... I was like that's so interesting because, umm, the... Apparently he was hired by restaurant owners to burn down their restaurants for the insurance money and he'd get a cut of it and it's like...
Christine Schiefer: Oh no.
Em Schulz: It's interesting that you're burning things down and like had you still have your ability you could have put the fire out at the same time. You know.
Christine Schiefer: Honestly, you could have been like, nevermind, I don't wanna go back to jail. I'll fix it.
Em Schulz: Which in our big listicle of all the things you could do with this power we didn't even consider the ways you could be a superhero and put out a fucking fire.
Christine Schiefer: Save the world. Well I said drought, I said you could fix a drought.
Em Schulz: That's true. You did. Everyone would have clean water unless I mean well do you know a filtration process?
Christine Schiefer: Well you know. Yeah. Somebody drink it first to test it then we'll try it out. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Yeah. I wonder what would happen if he drank the water he conjured. Would he become twice as powerful.
Christine Schiefer: Or would it just taste bad? Would it taste good? I don't know. I have a lot of questions.
Em Schulz: Yeah. I feel like it would taste a little metallic. I don't know. Why.
Christine Schiefer: Isn't that weird 'cause I also had the same thought and I don't know if it's 'cause it's like in jail coming from the metal bars.
Em Schulz: Maybe.
Christine Schiefer: Maybe I'm like thinking... Or pipes you know maybe I'm thinking.
Em Schulz: See I was thinking like, like how...
Christine Schiefer: Like blood?
Em Schulz: When you're outside and it kind of smells like outside or like sweat.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, like that...
Em Schulz: Like something kind of like iron or pennies.
Christine Schiefer: Chemically, yeah. Iron smell. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Em Schulz: Umm, anyway, so he, uh, went back to jail in 2012 and the arrest briefly renewed interest in the case because people were reporting about all these restaurants catching on fire. And then you find out it's like an insurance thing. And then.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: Oh, this guy was on Unsolved Mysteries because he was possessed by a demon who let him make things rain.
Christine Schiefer: You can't escape that. You can't.
Em Schulz: And, uh, so people... They re-brought up that news, which is why there are some more recent interviews from people about whether or not it was real. Umm, but yeah something I... Something was going on there. I don't know. Bob and Jeannie's house which has since been torn down apparently had stains on its walls for the rest of time that they couldn't get out which feels like water damage but we're just calling it stains. And one skeptic believes that the best guess he can come up with is that snow melting on the roof might have seeped into the inside of the walls and caused intense condensation. That's the best anyone's ever been able to come up with. But eyewitnesses say that what they saw was not of this world. So.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah nice try and also then like explain the jail but whatever. Okay.
Em Schulz: Right. Anyway that is The Possession of Don Decker.
Christine Schiefer: I cannot believe I've never heard of this. It feels like... Especially as an unsolved mysteries viewer but I've... I'm... I haven't watched every episode so I guess I better start all the way from the beginning and watch every single episode again. Too bad.
Em Schulz: Uh-oh, that's how I feel about...
Christine Schiefer: Too bad for me.
Em Schulz: That's how I feel about Marishka and I'm like oh we've come to the end. What do I do now?
Christine Schiefer: Not again isn't that the nicest feeling.
Em Schulz: I guess we start over.
Christine Schiefer: When you have a show where you're like actually I can just watch this again and not feel...
Em Schulz: Speaking of 1983 you couldn't fucking do that.
Christine Schiefer: I know.
Em Schulz: Maybe a video, maybe if you had a video, but then you had to watch the one thing over and over again.
Christine Schiefer: And then you have... You have to rewind it.
Em Schulz: Gasp.
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: Who the fuck has the time for that anymore? You know what I mean? Not I Jedi.
Christine Schiefer: Not I Jedi. Well, good story. Em, that was a, that was a doozy, you know.
Em Schulz: Thank you.
Christine Schiefer: I have one for you. That is also a doozy and is one that I've been wanting to cover since 2022. And I know the specific date because I heard this on case file in 2022. And I remember thinking I cannot wait to blow Em's mind with this one someday.
Em Schulz: I'm so excited.
Christine Schiefer: And here we're, okay. This is the story of Marie Hilley. All right, now let's just jump into it 'cause it, it's topsy-turvy. So in 1980, 47-year-old Marie Hilley vanished without a trace from a hotel in Alabama. The only lead in the case was a kidnapper's note that warned investigators not to pursue them.
Em Schulz: Mm-Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: The note was a dead end, not a single other clue pointed in any direction where Marie might've been taken. Now we go a little like, speaking of rewind, hit the rewind button, we're gonna go five years earlier after the tragic death of her husband, her two adult children were left to console each other. Wonder what had become of their mother. Now she's missing. And this family basically it seems, can't catch a break. After she disappeared from the hotel room it took about three years before they had any answers.
Em Schulz: Oh, shit. Okay. It's a long time.
Christine Schiefer: It was a long time. So Marie Hilley was actually born Audrey Marie Frazier in June of 1933. She was born in Blue Mountain, Alabama. And, uh, if you heard that, you may have caught 1933, we're talking great depression not a fun time to be growing up.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, if you were, you know, impoverished, which so many people were. Umm, and so she had a tough early childhood, as many people did. But she was one of those people that you meet and I don't know, I'm sure we both know people like this, but somebody who like almost like a compulsion, like needs to have luxury, like needs to, wants something.
Em Schulz: That's half my family, my friend.
Christine Schiefer: I wasn't gonna say names but you know, like even though they're not in that class they're like, I don't care if I don't have the means for it. I want to be.
Em Schulz: But there's a lot of people, I feel like we all know, like some shitty guy from our high school who like grew up to like pay for like the fanciest car and looks really swanky, like at the club, but like his apartment is totally empty. Like, it's like he's only.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Buying the things for the attention, but then yeah, at the end of the day, he can't like, afford rent.
Christine Schiefer: Exactly. It's like a status symbol where it's more important than just being able to like, pay rent or, or live your day-to-day life. Yeah, exactly. And so she was that kind of a person. She aspired to 'the finer things in life' and not just aspired like she ached for them. Like she was desperate to be a class above where she was born. Umm and any spare money her family had they kind of used to spoil her because she wanted these things so badly that when they had the money they doted on her. Umm, any spare money they had would indulge Marie's kind of ideals of ideas of these luxurious, this luxurious lifestyle. So she kind of turned herself into a sort of perfect southern bell. You know, she always had her hair done. She... Her makeup was always flawless. And I have I like to give credit I have heard of people who grow up in kind of a traumatic, impoverished situation and then grow up wanting to feel in control of like oh, I look nice. I have clean clothes. So you know, that's a different thing. I'm not, I'm not trying to, umm, you know, uh, cast aspersions, but.
Em Schulz: You know not all rags to riches stories are bad.
Christine Schiefer: Yes, exactly. And it's not all, it doesn't all stem from a terrible place but you know, there's...
Em Schulz: But this one...
Christine Schiefer: But this one yeah. It's a little different. At least maybe you can decide for yourself. Okay. So her hair was always done, her makeup always flawless. She was always like wearing new clothes latest fashions. And so other young women in her town were like very envious of her. And that's what she wanted you know. So in high school she met a man named Frank Hilley. And just like Marie Frank was very popular, very well liked in town. And so they got married in 1951 and together they moved to Anniston, Alabama. They had their first baby in November of 1952. And that was a son named Michael who went by Mike and Marie at the time worked for powerful wealthy members of the Aniston community, who found her very charming, very stylish, like she almost ingratiated herself into their circles like by working for them. She kind of knew what she was doing. She's very much a social climber. Is that what we say, social climber?
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Social climber.
Em Schulz: Climb the social ladder, you know.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So despite being their employee, like I said, she kind of ingratiated herself into their group and she thrived in it, that was like her, her bread and butter, so the connection she made gave her family some advantages both socially and business-wise. And in January of 1960, they had their second baby, and this was a daughter named Carol, so the Hilleys enjoyed their lives in Anniston, um, they were financially comfortable, they were very respected locally, and things seemed pretty damn smooth until the mid-1970s when Frank developed a mysterious illness.
Christine Schiefer: So appointment after appointment with different doctors were inconclusive, and Marie cared for Frank at his bedside, the whole family prayed for answers, she played the doting wife perfectly, but Frank just deteriorated, his health got so bad that he was admitted to the hospital, his... She actually, I think one night went out, found him in the front yard, just standing there, and he had almost...
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: He was so sick, he couldn't even tell where he was and they ended up bringing him...
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: In to the hospital, he had bloodshot eyes, Ashen skin, he could barely function. His body was shutting down. He died just two days later at only 45 years old, and when they did an autopsy they determined he had succumbed to hepatitis, which was a little odd, um, they weren't sure where he had gotten it from. And the entire family was hit hard by the loss, um, but 15-year-old Carol, his daughter was especially traumatized by this, she was very, very close with her dad, um, like her dad used to take her on you know daddy-daughter adventures, they would go to the local Elks Club and he would brag about her to all his friends. Like he was just very proud of her and very... Uh, they had a very close relationship, however, her mother didn't like her very much.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Oh, God, okay.
Christine Schiefer: They had always had a kind of butting heads type relationship, especially... And think about this, Carol was very much a tomboy. Mm-Hmm. Self-described tomboy. She didn't like to wear fancy clothes, she didn't like to do her hair, she like makeup. Um, and so her mom was like, What is wrong with you? Like this is all I care about. And now my own daughter doesn't give a shit about like looking the part, you know.
Em Schulz: I will say been there.
Christine Schiefer: I know, I know. Again not to name names, but Wow. This does kind of sound familiar. Um, yeah, so exactly, she didn't... Marie did not care for Carol, her own daughter, nor did she care for her hobbies, her friends, she just was like, This is not my daughter, like this is not the kind of daughter I was hoping to raise. And Carol later said in an interview, I couldn't please her no matter what I did. So it was just one of those... So it basically, I'm saying that to to tell you that it hit Carol extra hard when her father died.
Em Schulz: Mm-Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: So according to one source, Marie became convinced at one point that Carol, her daughter was a lesbian and she fucking hated it. She fucking hated it.
Em Schulz: Um, you know. How many times in a row can I say this?
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Listen we... Do you wanna just create a button on the mixer that just says...
Em Schulz: Did you...
Christine Schiefer: Same girl, same girl, or something.
Em Schulz: Did you do the thing where like the name is actually my name, but just like an anagram or something?
Christine Schiefer: This is a story of Cletus, what was it?
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, Carol was... According to her mother, Carol was a lesbian, and this was not great for for Marie, so Marie would randomly aggressively lash out at any of Carol's female friends, like whether there was a label on it or not. And in the wake of Frank's death, Mike, the older brother who was 23 took a job as a minister and moved to Florida with his wife, so now it's just Marie and Carol living together.
Em Schulz: Just stuck together.
Em Schulz: Yeah, and they moved into a new home in a middle class neighborhood uh, that they purchased with Frank's life insurance policy, which was $31,000, but today would be the buying power of about $181,000, so like a good chunk of... Big chunk of change, but not like something to live the rest of your life out with you know. So as they moved into this house, their lives uh, did not settle down, things didn't get better, um, in fact, they got worse because pretty quickly the Hilleys began receiving threatening letters in the mail, as well as violent and threatening, mysterious phone calls demanding that they move out of this house, out of this neighborhood.
Em Schulz: Oh, shit.
Christine Schiefer: So Marie suspected the threats were coming from a neighbor's teenage son or a man she knew through work, who had once solicited her for oral sex, and she had refused him, and she said maybe he's getting revenge and harassing me and my daughter. But she and Carol tried to ignore it, live their lives as peacefully as possible and get along as well as they could, even though it was a little bit hard because Marie didn't really care to understand or befriend.
Em Schulz: Of course.
Christine Schiefer: Marie, of course why, why would she...
Em Schulz: Well certainly not a lesbian.
Christine Schiefer: No, certainly not. Certainly not in that state. You know go clean yourself up, then we'll talk. Um, so they tried to live as peacefully as they could, but in 1979, when Carol decided to go to prom, Marie was fucking thrilled, she was like, finally. I mean this is like any Disney movie right it's like...
Em Schulz: Yes.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, finally your parent is so proud of you 'cause they're doing the thing that the... You're taking over the car shop, car wash business, you're taking over... You know, you're going to the prom.
Em Schulz: You're fulfilling my dreams, if...
Christine Schiefer: You're borrowing my hair ties and my straightener iron, yeah.
Em Schulz: Well also did she go with anybody? Did she bring a boy?
Christine Schiefer: Okay, so she decided to go to prom, and Marie was thrilled, of course, she was like, Finally I can do hair and make up with you, a fancy dress, these are the things that... Like this is my love language, you know.
Em Schulz: Uh-huh.
Christine Schiefer: So Marie did help her daughter get ready for prom all morning and afternoon, but as evening rolled around, Carol started to feel sick, she was like, I just really don't feel well, and she became so nauseated, she started vomiting and she ended up missing the prom for what seemed like maybe a stomach bug or food poisoning, and she spent two days in bed sick to her stomach. So some time passed, and Carol's symptoms returned, she was eventually hospitalized and like her father, they could not figure out what the hell was going on, but she was kind of showing a lot of the same symptoms that her dad had been showing, which was really scary to the rest of the family.
Em Schulz: Yeah. I was gonna say, do you think it was genetic or something...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, that's what everyone was worried about because she was definitely reflecting the same you know concerns that her dad had, had shown before he passed away. And so Carol spent that summer in and out of doctor's appointments with these strange symptoms she had, her feet would tingle. She lost feeling in her legs, she had nerve damage, her muscles began to atrophy, and it was again, like her body was just shutting down. So as she rapidly deteriorated her Aunt Frida, who was her dad's sister, um, so her aunt on her dad's side called Carol's brother on the phone, saying, you know I'm really concerned, like Carol symptoms seem so much like Frank's, it was already hard enough losing my brother, I don't wanna lose my niece to the same thing, especially if we don't know what it is.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: So Mike, the Carol's brother agreed that it seemed like a repeat of his dad's uh, illness, and just like the way that it was... They were powerless, they were powerless to do anything. So on September 19th, um, Carol was back in the hospital, and it was really hard because she... Um Carol had started college, but she had to leave school to be in the hospital. That's how sick she was. So her mom, Marie was sitting at her bedside in the hospital when police entered the room, they knocked and they entered and they approached her uh, to discuss a series of bad checks that Marie had written, um, because apparently she had blown through her uh late husband's insurance money and had begun...
Em Schulz: Uh-oh.
Christine Schiefer: Writing fraudulent checks because like we discussed, she had a lavish lifestyle, and it didn't matter how she got it, she had to have it. So while Marie was gone, Carol was transferred to a different hospital because Marie's getting arrested for this other crime, and they take Carol and they move her to a different hospital in Birmingham, Alabama, and got a second opinion, a new doctor did a comprehensive exam of Carol's body, and he observed some pretty alarming traits in Carol's hair and fingernails, he actually asked to look at her fingernails, and she had these white streaks across them, and...
Em Schulz: Oh, doesn't that mean you're low on vitamin something?
Christine Schiefer: So there are, there are certain things that can happen to your nails that happen to mine all the time, like indents and.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: And uh, white marks that can mean like calcium deficiency.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: This was a different thing. If, if we look up, I can look up a photo later, it's a very distinct marking. Okay. It's a very distinct marking that he was looking for this doctor and he saw it in her fingernails and immediately ordered blood work to confirm his suspicions, and he was right, there was arsenic in Carol's body.
Em Schulz: Huh, that's interesting that you can eventually see it in someone's nails, have we talked about that before?
Christine Schiefer: I don't think we have. I don't think we have. It's It's something that you can notice in hair and nails um, over a long period of time, especially like if this was like as it was a very long extended period of being slowly kind of injected with something that would eventually kill you.
Em Schulz: So this was her mom for the insurance money?
Christine Schiefer: Sure was. Or I don't know for the insurance money, but perhaps for just some other kicks and giggles.
Em Schulz: I would assume for the money, so she could keep having a lavish life. Or like...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, I think she already didn't like her daughter very much and she definitely was running out of money, so... Yeah, you're probably right, yeah, yeah. So they found Arsenic in Carol's body. It was way too much to have been an accident, you know and it was very clear to doctors that Carol had been poisoned, and her aunt Frida, who had already called uh, and been like something's up, was the first to suspect this, because when Frank was sick, Marie, his wife had kept a constant vigil over him and was known to administer special injections that she said were necessary for his treatment.
Em Schulz: That was very Gypsy-Rose mom of...
Christine Schiefer: It sure is. So speaking of...
Em Schulz: Oh, You need those.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. And speaking of which, real quick, Saoirse reached out with an apology and it was not Saoirse's fault, so I just wanna say that real quick um, that I use the term um, uh Munchausen by proxy during the episode, which I guess is not um the term anymore, it's not the...
Em Schulz: Oh, I didn't know that.
Christine Schiefer: The updated term. Um, it's called Factitious disorder I believe. Factitious disorder imposed on another. And so I just wanna say that's kind of an outdated term and somebody reached out about it, and uh, Saoirse was apologizing that they hadn't put it in the notes, but... You know I should have looked it up before I even said it. So that was on me, um, but yeah, Factitious disorder imposed on another, but yes, it does have a very similar vibe to what's happening here. Definitely.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: And so she would be administering these special injections uh, that she claimed were necessary for his treatment, um, meanwhile, the vague explanation about his like supposed medication always seemed strange to Frida but she was like... She just didn't... It didn't occur to her that her sister-in-law would be doing this, like it just didn't occur to her till her own niece started having the same uh, symptoms, and then she heard about arsenic, she's like, I knew there was a, a red flag in here something.
Em Schulz: She's like I smelled something fishy.
Christine Schiefer: Smelled trouble. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So when Carol got sick, Frida called Mike, Carol's brother and asked if Marie had been giving his sister any injections. She was like, Hey, quick question for you.
Em Schulz: Quick little Q for you.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, quick little Q for you.
Em Schulz: Any needles in your house?
Christine Schiefer: Any needle... [laughter] Any needles, mysterious showing up in the hospital...
Em Schulz: Do you know how to find a vein? I'm just kind of wondering.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, we're all just wondering like if that's maybe a possibility. So Mike was like, I don't know, I'll go check. So he calls Marie and he says, Hey, mom, have you been giving Carol injections at the hospital? And she says, No, of course not. And he asked, Do you promise? And she said, No.
Em Schulz: Oh, it was that easy? Wow.
Christine Schiefer: Which is so weird to me. Somebody with just kinda of a... A complex.
[overlapping conversation]
Em Schulz: That's so weird if you're like that good at lying.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, why are you...
Em Schulz: Why was your guilt that thin. That's weird.
Christine Schiefer: You know what I wonder though? I don't think it was guilt, I think probably she knew he could just call the hospital and they'd be like, Yeah, she's been like giving her inject... You know what I mean like probably somebody knew. I don't know though.
Em Schulz: But she could... She can hear in his voice like if he...
[overlapping conversation]
Christine Schiefer: That he may be had a clue, or something.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. That's kinda of what I think, I don't think it was guilt, I really don't. You'll see why.
Em Schulz: That makes so much more sense, that makes so much more sense.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, I agree. So she's like, he's like Do you promise? Which probably implied, like I know more than you think. And she said No. Um, and so when Mike called the hospital to ask about the injections, they were like. We sure didn't prescribe any, so if she is giving some, it is not under doctor's orders. So Mike immediately calls the police and the police inform him, they had actually been trailing his mother for a while over these bad checks, so there are... She's already in on their horizon you know. While Marie was being questioned for these bad checks. Carol was transferred to examine for signs of poisoning, and now they knew the truth that she had been injected with arsenic over a long period of time.
Em Schulz: Which... Sorry, what year was this again? Oh, this wasn't like the '30s?
Christine Schiefer: No, this was in the '80s.
Em Schulz: She was born, she was born in the '30s, this is now the '80s.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Okay. 'cause I was gonna say in today's world, like at least pick a different thing, don't be so obvious, it was a fucking arsenic.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah It was actually '79 if we're being specific. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Gotcha, okay, sorry, keep going.
Christine Schiefer: No. No, yeah. I mean it is weird to think about... The... The decade makes a real big difference in this... Each story, like it really... Yeah. Like how you were talking... Oh, why didn't they take a picture... Oh, 'cause it was the '80... You know it really does have...
Em Schulz: Why were they using arsenic? Oh, because it was the '30s or '70s.
Christine Schiefer: '70s. So while Marie was being questioned, they... Now they check her. The daughter... Was basically, they finally are able to pry Marie away from her daughter, so that they're able to like really test her out and figure out what's going on, and they realize that her mother is the reason for this illness.
Christine Schiefer: So Mike wrote a letter to the district attorney requesting an investigation into his father's death four years earlier, the coroner exhumed Frank's body, and they discovered it contained lethal amounts of arsenic, so ding, ding, ding, we are now figuring out this pattern. Frida went to Marie's house, so this is Marie sister-in-law, this is Frank's sister. She went to Marie's house and discovered a box of pill bottles in the basement that contained arsenic.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: And Carol asked Frida if she really believed her mother, her own mother was responsible of killing her father... For killing her father and was capable of trying to kill her, and Frida said, Yes, I do believe it. I do believe your mother did this.
Em Schulz: Also so awkward if she didn't actually do it. It's like oh...
Christine Schiefer: So awkward. You have to be 110% sure.
Em Schulz: And then you go to like Christmas dinner with them. And It's like, Oh, you thought I had the potential to be a fucking serial killer. Oh, Thank you.
Christine Schiefer: You know, You're not invited anymore.
Em Schulz: Man, but that's so... You're right, you have to be 100% sure. So it's... That's pretty damning.
Christine Schiefer: So it's almost like, that question is damning. Yes, 100%.
Christine Schiefer: So on October 9th, 1979, Marie was indicted for attempting to murder her daughter, and soon afterwards she was also indicted for having murdered her husband. Marie was released on bail awaiting her trial, and her attorney checked her into a hotel where he said no one was allowed to have contact with her. And when he arrived at the hotel to meet with her one day, she was gone. And there was a note left by a kidnapper saying Do not pursue us or contact the authorities. Now we full circle all the way back to the start of these notes, which was that she vanished without a trace from a hotel in Alabama in 1980 at the age of 47.
Em Schulz: I don't know much about... Without a trace, that feels like...
Christine Schiefer: [laughter] Without a trace.
Em Schulz: I don't know much about vanished.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, well... Well, what do you know about the future of the story? This was all the past...
Em Schulz: I know, I guess I know nothing, but it does sound like we've got ourselves a culprit.
Christine Schiefer: We have a culprit for sure. So, of course, everybody knew there was not a real kidnapper that Marie had just fucking run away and she made her... And her... By the way her kids were pissed because apparently the jail did... The jail did not contact them about whether or not to release her, and Carol... Carol was like, she tried to kill me, you didn't wanna even gonna tell me you were releasing her into the wild, and now...
Em Schulz: That's a lawsuit.
Christine Schiefer: Right?
Em Schulz: I would make it a lawsuit I'd be like, are you fucking crazy.
Christine Schiefer: And now she's fucking gone, and like maybe she's around the corner, and you know, finish the job. Like...
Em Schulz: Yeah, oh my God, I would park up my shit and move, I'd be like...
Christine Schiefer: And the fact that it's your mother is so much more sinister. Like ugh.
Em Schulz: Yeah. That's a... That's the level of intimacy for a killing that is...
Christine Schiefer: It's so scary. It's like extra scary.
Em Schulz: It's totally different fear, yeah.
Christine Schiefer: And so Marie meanwhile, nobody knew this because she did do a pretty good job of escaping, I mean again, it was 1980, so it was a little harder to track people, but she made her way to Florida and she met a man named John Homan, now Marie Introduced herself to him as Robbi and the two of them hit it off and he was head over heals from the moment he laid eyes on her.
Em Schulz: Aaw.
Christine Schiefer: They fell in love, but Marie did not wanna stay in Florida, so she convinced John to move to New Hampshire because I guess she liked the idea of a snowy picturesque landscape, and she's like, this sounds right.
Em Schulz: Or something just totally fucking different than what she... She probably just wanted to do a life change all around.
Christine Schiefer: We're talking Marie the, the... Sorry.
Em Schulz: Gotcha. Gotcha.
Christine Schiefer: She escaped, went to Florida, nobody knew this because she just like peaced the fuck out. But she changed her name to Robbi.
Em Schulz: Right, okay.
Christine Schiefer: Introduced herself to someone at a bar and...
Em Schulz: Well, I still kind of stand by that then, I would be like, Maybe she just thinks nobody would look for her in a totally different climate.
Christine Schiefer: No, yeah, she... And she nailed it because again, without a trace, at least for several years.
Em Schulz: Vanished. Vanished.
Christine Schiefer: Vanished, without a trace. And uh, she loved the idea of having like kind of a picturesque snowy you know New England vibe, and so they got married, they moved into a cottage together, and Marie started working at a local office in October of 1980, living as Robbi Homan, which was his last name. So, Robbi and John were happy together. Robbi was very well liked by her co-workers, they described her as sociable, always smiling, very gentle, so everybody was stunned in the summer of 1982, which would have been two years after she had moved there, when Robbi told them she was going to Texas to stay with her sister, because her fatal illness, her rare genetic blood disorder had reared its ugly head again and she needed to go seek treatment.
Christine Schiefer: So she moved to Texas to be with her sister for a while, and she told, John, You stay here. Um, I'll reach out, I'll let you know what's going on. And they had a tearful goodbye, she went to stay with her twin sister in Texas, and John stayed behind to work and care for the house, and months later, John received a call from Robbi's twin sister Teri Martin, who told him that Robbi had unfortunately passed away.
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: And John was heartbroken, he didn't realize how sick his wife had really been. Teri told John that Robbi would have wanted her. And they had letters, she had letters from Robbi saying, Please take care of John. He needs support during this time, so Teri said, You know what, I'm gonna fly up there and help take care of everything in the wake of my sister's passing. So Teri shows up, [laughter] this is stupid. So Teri shows up weirdly looking just like Robbi, but like they are twins, right, so of course they look alike and [laughter] she has different hair.
Em Schulz: Does he fall in love with her?
Christine Schiefer: It's possible. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Drama, I love it. You should've just started with that, and ended with it.
Christine Schiefer: It's, it's so crazy. So Terry, told John that Robbi would have wanted her to be at his side and support him when she died. So Teri rushes to New Hampshire. You know she looks different, but still John is like taken by how much she looks just like Robbi. So Teri moves in, John finds comfort with her living in the house, and then um, Teri shows up at Robbi office and says, you know I'm actually just gonna take over my dead sister's job and start working here. And they were like, What? [laughter]
Em Schulz: Okay. That's... Okay... Is this... Is she the same person? Is this just the same person?
Christine Schiefer: It's the same person.
Em Schulz: Okay, okay, okay, okay.
Christine Schiefer: You know what's so wild is John has no fucking idea. He really thinks this is her twin.
Em Schulz: So he really did... She did a full identity switch on him, even to her own husband.
Christine Schiefer: Yes. And he believed it.
Em Schulz: Didn't he go to like a funeral?
Christine Schiefer: No. Because of course, when Robbi die... Robbi, not even her real name, died, there were all these notes like, please don't... Please don't have funeral, please don't cry about my death, just move on.
Em Schulz: So this was a long, long, long, long... A long time coming like she fully planned this.
Christine Schiefer: Yes, this is a big con. Yes. And I will add they did. So Teri went in with, uh, Teri, Robbi's fake persona.
Em Schulz: Uh-huh, who's not even Robbi.
Christine Schiefer: Twin sister, who's not even Robbi. Teri went into the newspaper, uh, off headquarters with him to write an obituary. And the newspaper was like, well, that's weird. Usually the funeral home reaches out. And she was like, we're not having a funeral, we're just doing an obituary. We did like a, a thing back in Texas and we're not, you know, gonna publicize it too much, but we wanna write a, an obituary. And so they, they published this obituary, umm, anyway, that'll come back to bite them, but, uh.
Em Schulz: Oh, I'm sure. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. In any case, she starts working at her dead sister's job, like, takes the desk, even though it's literally her.
Em Schulz: Did she just go to the boss and go, hi, recognize me. That was my sister.
Christine Schiefer: That Was my sister hair flip.
Em Schulz: I'd Be like, are you a crazy person? I, if I was back at the prop house and someone walked in after my coworker died, and it was someone who looked exactly like my coworker and was like, I'm fully qualified for this. I'd be like, bitch, that's you. Like, I.
Christine Schiefer: Is that not nuts? It's like, it feels like a weird episode of Punk'd to like, I don't understand what you're doing. You changed Your hair color.
Em Schulz: I'd be like, are you telling you look exactly the same. You do exactly all the same stuff. And I'm supposed to just go with this. This feels really weird.
Christine Schiefer: Hey, here's the thing Em, they didn't fucking believe her for a minute.
Em Schulz: Okay. Thank God. Okay. Someone had some reason.
Christine Schiefer: The Husband did. And I'm not gonna victim blame him because I feel that he was definitely taken for a ride here.
Em Schulz: For a ride. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, certainly. And I also think, you know, he only knew her two years. He was head over heels. He was like totally blinded by love, whatever, and trust and naivete perhaps. And then when this twin came, apparently when she lived with him, she, I think she probably used all her energy to convince John and not.
Em Schulz: Everybody Else.
Christine Schiefer: Everybody else, because he's like, no. Like she loves TV. And apparently, uh, Robbi fucking hated watching TV. But Teri came and just watched TV all the time, and he's like, there's some really, like, like doesn't drink coffee. Like very specific things she would do at home where he was like, huh, okay. I guess it isn't her.
Em Schulz: You know, that second time around when she had to totally change her interests and now they were actually not her interests. She's like, oh fuck, like, now I...
Christine Schiefer: She must have been pissed. I hope there was something she could throw in the mix that was like, finally.
Em Schulz: It's like if I died and then came back and became your best friend and decided to become the, the next host of this podcast. But I really liked hiking.
Christine Schiefer: Yes.
Em Schulz: You would be like, did you hit your fucking head? What is wrong with you?
Christine Schiefer: I would probably be convinced it was your weird twin I never met, you know, I'd be like, there's no other way.
Em Schulz: But then it's me pretending to be me or someone else, and now I have to go fucking hiking all the time. I'd be like, oh, my God.
Christine Schiefer: And now you have to, you have to live up to it. Honestly, I would let.
Em Schulz: I got myself Into the weirdest places.
Christine Schiefer: I would fucking let you do it. I'd be like, oh yeah, you like hiking so much. Let's fucking go, let's go hiking every day.
Em Schulz: That's how You'll know if I have an evil twin. That's how you'll know.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, yeah. They certainly would be evil if we were going hiking every day. Umm, So in any case, the office felt like something was wrong. Okay. I love that the coworkers are immediately gossiping and the boss is the only one who's like, guys, can we give it a rest? Like she, and she had also by the way, faked her illness up until this point. So her boss was very familiar with, she had told him, I have this rare blood disorder. So for two years she was like, oh, I'm in remission. Or like, oh, it's really bothering me today. I'm in a lot of pain. So he had just bought this story over the years, so it wasn't that shocking to him.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: But the rest of the coworkers were like, we, we work with her every day. Like, there's something shady happening here. You know, we don't believe this.
Em Schulz: Yeah. The way that I would kill for this story to be happening in the prop house when I was still coworkers with my old boss, Renee.
Christine Schiefer: Oh man, imagine, imagine.
Em Schulz: The Two of us would be.
Christine Schiefer: They would suss that shit out So fast.
Em Schulz: We would be going to lunch every day, playing. We'd be doing minute by minute reviews of what happened that Day.
Christine Schiefer: You would be having a, like, you'd like test them. Oh, it would be iconic. Really.
Em Schulz: And then if we got like a new person at work and they asked to go get lunch with us, and they'd be like, so tell me about everyone in the office. Renee would throw out like a thousand page document of like, boom.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, you wanna know.
Em Schulz: Here you go.
Christine Schiefer: The real truth of the office? Yeah.
Em Schulz: Yeah, yeah. That's right.
Christine Schiefer: That's exactly it. And so the office of course is gossiping, is like, what the fuck is going on? And they contact authorities because they've also seen this obituary and it doesn't quite track. Like they're, they're doing sleuthing. One of the, that's Yeah. You, that's us. Like had found the obituary, had then traced what it said was like the full name. And then, umm, I think it was either a high school or something in a town, and they called the town and they were like, there's no high school here by that name. You know, there were things.
Em Schulz: They're pulling a, a proper Christine is what I'm hearing.
Christine Schiefer: They're Right, right, right. They're, they're testing the waters here. They're, they're calling, they're calling her bluff. And they do, they're like, this is a fake obituary. There's lies in this thing. So they contact authorities with this bizarre story saying like, either Robbi is posing as Teri, maybe Teri had been posing as Robbi all along. Like, they don't know what is going on except that something shady as fuck is happening here. So the state police and the FBI are interested enough that they become involved in the case and they decide to confront Teri one day in 1983. They show up at her work and they're in the parking lot. And when she walks out, they confront her. They ask her what's going on, and they told her they know she is not who she claimed to be. And shockingly Teri goes, yeah, you're right. I'm not.
Em Schulz: Gasp.
Em Schulz: Oh my God. The way.
Christine Schiefer: Maybe.
Em Schulz: The way that this girl fucking flips the script every, as soon as.
Christine Schiefer: It's just.
Em Schulz: She, there's one thing she hates and it's being put in a corner. She.
Christine Schiefer: You know what? That's so true, Em.
Em Schulz: She is very scared of conflict for someone who pulls a lot of bullshit.
Christine Schiefer: For, for someone who is the only one creating the conflict, you know?
Em Schulz: Yes, yes.
Christine Schiefer: You're the one causing the problems. She told them they could take her to the police station and she would tell them the truth, the truth. And so they take her to the, uh, to the, the police station, and she admits that her real name is Audrey Marie Hilley, which is her legal birth name. She said she is a fugitive from Alabama who changed her identity to escape fraud charges over bad checks. And of course they contact law enforcement in Alabama and are like, okay, but you're also wanted for murder and attempted murder, not just bad checks. You murdered your husband and tried to murder your daughter.
Em Schulz: I like how, I like how she was hoping like if I give them enough truth, then they won't pay attention to the other truth I'm not talking about. She's like, oh, it's, yes I.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, like let's just lower.
Em Schulz: I admit to the bad checks. Now we can focus on that. And they're like, what about the murder? She's like, the bad checks are so bad. So.
Christine Schiefer: That's, Don't you remember how bad the checks were though? Like super bad.
Em Schulz: But it was the checks. I've never, oh my God, I'll never recover.
Christine Schiefer: Remember when I did the F word fraud? Yeah. Uh, so she basically admits this to them, but then of course they find out like, Hey, there's a lot more to this story. So she is extradited to Alabama to finally face her charges. The trial began in May, 1983 and investigations into Marie's crimes. Uh, of course not shockingly at all uncovered, disturbing stories from many people who knew her. Friends and colleagues reported that they had often fallen ill after eating food Marie had cooked both in her home at social events.
Em Schulz: Oh, my God.
Christine Schiefer: I mean, think about gonna a church cookout or like just a friend friend's birthday.
Em Schulz: I would be petrified. Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: It's so scary. And it's just like Tupperware with potato salad and it like almost Kills you.
Em Schulz: You know, I Don't even, I don't even trust myself because if I were ever in a room with her and I ate something, I'd go, that bitch it fucked with my cookies. I already know. Like, I would, I'd find a way to remember being sick that day.
Christine Schiefer: I'd be like, ow, my tummy hurts. It was you. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Yeah. I would, I don't think I would be a safe person to, in, in the terms of hindsight, but I. Umm, yeah. I feel like every single person had to rethink any interaction they ever had with her.
Christine Schiefer: Yes. Especially like social, just like casual potlucks, that kind of thing.
Em Schulz: So was there a reason for them? Because if it was like her dad and her daughter, I kind of saw it as like, oh, for money for the.
Christine Schiefer: That's kind of why I like pushed back a little bit and said, yeah, for money probably, but also just like, because 'cause she just likes to do it.
Em Schulz: Yeah. It seems like she's just fucking bored. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: She just likes to, I think she's just probably, this is me armchair analyzing maybe a sociopath and just likes that control over people and likes to watch them suffer because of her, you know? I don't know. But so they, a lot of people, let's just say, came out of the woodwork to be like, umm, yeah, she definitely made me sick too. She was known to call the police to her house to report a stalker, and eventually police were like, okay, she's just making these calls for attention. But police would come and they would drink tea and eat snacks that she offered them. And Hmm. The officers would also fall ill after visiting her home. So it seemed like we kind of just said Marie poisoned people randomly without like a clear motive, like just almost for fun and as for her husband and daughter. The prosecution accused Marie of seeking insurance money, like you said, to support this kind of luxurious lifestyle that was beyond her means. She had actually taken out a $25,000 life insurance policy on her daughter Carol, uh, in addition to the one on Frank. And that today is about $146,000.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: And she also had a $25,000 life insurance policy on her son Mike. And she was the only beneficiary on those policies.
Em Schulz: Damn. So was Mike gonna go next?
Christine Schiefer: So Mike is like already out of the house. He was just lucky 'cause he was old enough to move out before.
Em Schulz: He was like, thank God.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, exactly. However, ooh, this part gives me a tummy ache. It's so freaky. He explained that during her disappearance, after she disappeared from the hotel room one night he heard his baby crying. He had a brand new baby, and he went into the room and the window was open.
Em Schulz: Gasp.
Em Schulz: Ew. Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: And he was like, she came in to visit the baby and he was like, she's gonna hurt my child. She's gonna hurt my family. And thankfully the the, they were able to like scare her off. Like, I think she heard him coming and ran out the window and he's like, I don't know what she would've done if I hadn't heard the commotion.
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: I don't know if she would've tried to take the baby, or.
Em Schulz: I'm surprised she did. I was gonna say for ransom, she probably was gonna kidnap the baby for ransom.
Christine Schiefer: She may have. And he said like, thank God I was able to intervene before anything happened. But he said he knew it was his mother and he also said, umm, he was on edge for years until she like reappeared because he was like, she could just come back at any minute and try to get in the house and do something to his kid. Umm, and so just really, really freaky stuff. So Marie had collected insurance money for damages sustained as well by a lot of random accidents and things that had happened to her. Uh, fires had started in her house. She collected insurance on her car when it was burned after somebody had stolen it, allegedly. Uh, and so, you know, it, it was.
Em Schulz: Maybe she paid the fucking guy from my story to come burn things for the insurance money.
Christine Schiefer: And Right, right. It could be and say, but don't rain on it. Don't rain on it.
Em Schulz: Right. Right.
Christine Schiefer: But the defense meanwhile, uh, they relied on Carol's appearance and reputation as kind of a soft spoken southern belle who was small and petite and couldn't harm anyone. They argued that she just didn't fit the profile for a cold-blooded murderer. Uh, and people in the case even described her later as a very small, soft spoken, polite southern woman. So it's almost like very, umm, what's the word where you're like, disarmed. Like she's very disarming. Like you don't realize how scary she is until you kind of hear more about her, what she does.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, ultimately she was found guilty and sentenced to life in prison for the death of her husband, Frank. And she spent 20 years in prison for attempting to kill Carol, her daughter. But even in prison, Marie was very concerned with her status. She used her social charms and of course, like the privilege of being a pretty white southern belle, uh, to befriend a warden whom she convinced that she was framed about this crime. And meanwhile, her husband John actually moved from New Hampshire to Alabama because he believed her story.
Em Schulz: That poor man. What did he say when she found out, when he found out about everything.
Christine Schiefer: He Thought she was being framed.
Em Schulz: Wow. She really got him good.
Christine Schiefer: She got him good. So in February of 1987, uh, Marie convinced the warden to allow her to leave prison on furlough. Isn't that interesting?
Em Schulz: That is weird.
Christine Schiefer: And, uh, she decided to visit John, her husband, and so she did. They spent two days together. Umm, the warden considered her a very good trustworthy candidate for furlough. Remember he was convinced she had been framed by this point. And so John, her husband, picked her up on February 19th. They spent three romantic whirlwind days together before it was time for Marie to return to prison. She told him she wanted to visit her mother's grave one last time and that she would meet him at Waffle House afterward. So John got to the Waffle House, but wouldn't you know it, Tik tok Tik tok Marie did not appear.
Em Schulz: She escaped? She left?
Christine Schiefer: She fucking escaped.
Em Schulz: Brilliant.
Christine Schiefer: Brilliant.
Em Schulz: Brilliant.
Christine Schiefer: He returned to the boarding house where they were staying and found a goodbye note saying she was leaving the country. So the state of Alabama issued a massive manhunt, but for three days there was no sign of Marie.
Em Schulz: Also, another genius thing would be to say you're leaving the country. So everyone's looking at Interpol and like, you're actually just like down the road.
Christine Schiefer: Well.
Em Schulz: Gasp.
Christine Schiefer: Hold That thought.
Em Schulz: I'm so fucking good.
Christine Schiefer: You're, well, not quite.
Em Schulz: Okay. I'm okay.
Christine Schiefer: You're okay. We'll see. Finally on the morning of the fourth day since her escape, a 911 call came in reporting a woman incoherent and barely conscious on someone's porch. Paramedics arrived and found Marie Hilley dying of exposure to the cold.
Em Schulz: Oh shit.
Christine Schiefer: She had been out in the rain and cold for three days trying to survive in the nearby woods while she waited out searches for her. And she had succumbed to cardiac arrest caused by hypothermia in the hospital.
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: Calhoun County District Attorney Bob Field called Marie a great escape artist and remarked that her death was "anti climactic" so.
Em Schulz: Damn, that's embarrassing.
Christine Schiefer: It is. Marie's family picked up the pieces and moved on with their lives, obviously deeply traumatized by all this. Mike and his wife had children and grandchildren. Umm, in a 2012 interview, Carol said her childhood with Marie was a faded memory and that she had moved on long ago and was focused on her life with her brother and their family. Carol said in the same interview, I sometimes think how my mother cheated my father out of his grandchildren. I guess she cheated herself out of them too.
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Carol, her brother Mike and his family led happy, successful lives long after Marie passed. And, umm, funnily enough, Saoirse wrote this note in here. Carol says she can't imagine why anyone would still be interested in Marie's crimes and her story. Uh.
Em Schulz: Geez.
Christine Schiefer: I mean it's just fascinating. I know that like, probably Marie's like I'm over over it. I've moved on. But you know, it's an interesting story Neither the less. Neither the less. That's not a word. Anyway, Marie was dubbed the Black Widow and her story has often been featured in like very sensationalized stories about her being a southern belle, you know, and like who could have thought the, nice lady next door, umm.
Em Schulz: Easily a lifetime movie.
Christine Schiefer: Easily. And uh, there were articles with headlines like three Faces of the pretty poisoner and queens of Poison, you know, all that silly nonsense. Umm, but yeah, that is the, that is the story of uh, Audrey Marie Hilley.
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: But I wanna send you a photo 'cause like she really does look like just the classic.
Em Schulz: Does she look like her twin sister kind of, do you think Or?
Christine Schiefer: Not really though. You know, they're pretty different actually.
Em Schulz: Interesting. But I bet they could probably do the same job.
Christine Schiefer: They probably could do the same job. Yeah.
Em Schulz: She does look like a southern belle. It's that big poof hair.
Christine Schiefer: The Big fucking poof and then like the big smile and looking almost like, just like, I'm gonna serve you a jello casserole, you know.
Em Schulz: Uh-huh. Yeah. Laced with arsenic. Wow.
Christine Schiefer: Correct.
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: Anyway, that's the story.
Em Schulz: A pretty poisoner.
Christine Schiefer: Silly.
Em Schulz: Talk about pretty privilege. Even as a murderer, people are making sure they know that you're beautiful.
Christine Schiefer: In the headline. Like, come on.
Em Schulz: Oh, well Christine, you are right. You befuddled me. Uh, I.
Christine Schiefer: You but you were on it though. I mean, you were, you were wrong about.
Em Schulz: I tried.
Christine Schiefer: She probably should have left the country because she didn't survive in Alabama, but other than that you were on top of it, Em.
Em Schulz: Oh, that was quite a bemusement.
Christine Schiefer: I forget what I called it. Topsy-Turvy. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Love topsy-turvy. I could do that. That's, yeah. I feel, I feel tops-ed and turv-ed. Well, I don't feel well Whatever. Toppy, the end.
Christine Schiefer: Thank you. I was just waiting for you to finish.
Em Schulz: Christine, what are you doing for the rest of the day?
Christine Schiefer: I don't know. I forgot to eat today, so I'm pretty damn hungry. What are you up to?
Em Schulz: I have to figure out my, uh, I have to figure out my schedule.
Christine Schiefer: Find all your missing shit from the closet.
Em Schulz: That, and I have to, uh, figure out my schedule with my mom. I don't know if I'm coming back here or not after our shows. So I gotta figure out what the move is, but other than that, I, I'm just, I think doing laundry and getting ready to do more shows with you.
Christine Schiefer: Just Straight chilling.
Em Schulz: JCMU.
Christine Schiefer: JCMU.
Em Schulz: JCNM, NMJCU. Oh my god, it's been too long. It's too long.
Christine Schiefer: I just trusted you.
Em Schulz: Thank you.
Christine Schiefer: Never do that again.
Em Schulz: Oh, where's your little baby? Where's she, what's she doing?
Christine Schiefer: She's downstairs waiting for me to wrap up this nonsense.
Em Schulz: Did she Like her dinosaur cake?
Christine Schiefer: She fucking loved her dinosaur cake. We post. Did you see the photos?
Em Schulz: I did.
Christine Schiefer: I think Megan posted photos on Instagram. I was.
Em Schulz: She looked Beautiful.
Christine Schiefer: I was so proud of my baby.
Em Schulz: Did she make friends?
Christine Schiefer: Umm, where, at her birthday party?
Em Schulz: Yeah. I didn't know if there was like other, other children just 'cause you're outside, you know, maybe someone just bumps into you.
Christine Schiefer: There were some friends there, some people who were just at the park who stopped by. Umm, it was very cute. And her best friend Hailey came and they are just like two peas in a pod and just so stinking cute. We didn't post that. 'cause I'm not gonna post a picture of Leona and her friends, but to Instagram publicly. But I will send you, umm, pictures of them together Em, 'cause they are like, you look at the, those two and you're like trouble, double trouble.
Em Schulz: I love it. What was the gift that she liked the most out of everything?
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God. It was a fucking, I don't know if I talked about this, but the, her little ping pong set where you basically, I got her this ping pong thing where you hang it, uh, by an adhesive and it's on a string and then she gets like paddles and you can like, play endlessly ping pong. She just loves activities. She's like a very activity oriented person, whereas I just would rather lay down. But, umm, Yeah, but she, she loves it. Yeah, she had fun. A lot of climbing things. She likes to climb shit for better or for worse to fray my nerves. We'll see.
Em Schulz: Wobbly mountain.
Christine Schiefer: Exactly. Yeah. You get it.
Em Schulz: Well thank you everyone for listening to us. If you'd like to hear us keep yapping, you can head over to Patreon and uh, you can come to our shows, you can get our tickets on our website and our book is out. Please go get our both books, please go get both of them. And uh, that's it.
Christine Schiefer: We're gonna go do a yappy hour on Patreon. So join us there if you would like to hear more.
Em Schulz: And.
Christine Schiefer: That's.
Em Schulz: Why.
Christine Schiefer: We.
Em Schulz: Drink.
