[intro music]
Em Schulz: Hello everybody, welcome to another week, another installment, another rousing episode of your favorite podcast, And That's Why We Drink. Starring your favorite podcast host, Em Schulz. Uh. The other one is not here right now.
Em Schulz: Uh, hmm, how do we say this? I guess the Hircine Shifter, you know her well, her and I, we got swept up in life, as they might say, this week. And so, uh, an episode, recording episode was just not doable with her being a rock star and touring, and uh, me going through my half of prepping for our live show, things just got kind of overwhelming.
Em Schulz: So what we're gonna do is we are showing you or presenting to you in lieu of a, a new episode, a live episode from one of our very early tours. Uh. This is from our... Albany show? Umm. This was life times ago, I don't know exactly what you're gonna hear, it's gonna be interesting, probably.
Em Schulz: You're gonna hear our tiny little baby voices, umm, who just haven't even experienced half the things that we have in the last few years. Umm. So you'll hear purity and innocence and naivete. So I hope you enjoy that, while also listening to the grisly dastardly crimes that we probably talk about. So I hope you have a good time.
Em Schulz: And while I have you, speaking of Albany, not too far from Albany is Newark, New Jersey and Tarrytown, aka Sleepy Hollow, New York. And I bring those up because those are the first two stops on our new tour, Poor Decisions, that will be September 12th and September 13th. Umm.
Em Schulz: Please come on down and uh, you know, see what we've got going on. It's very different than the live show you're about to hear for this week's episode. Umm.
Em Schulz: You wanna see us go ghost hunting and get the pants scared off of us, and maybe you'll laugh, maybe you'll cry, maybe you'll have a moment with the person sitting next to you, maybe you fall in love. I don't know, you tell me. Find out in New York and New Jersey. And that is early September.
Em Schulz: So please go to our website, get our tickets, and uh, we'll see there. Bye.
[applause]
Em Schulz: Hello?
Christine Schiefer: Is this thing on?
Em Schulz: Hello? Anyone... Anyone out there?
Christine Schiefer: Can you hear us?
Em Schulz: If you uh, if you are listening, hello, welcome to And That's Why We Drink. Live.
Christine Schiefer: Live. We're here with you live, guys.
Em Schulz: Uh, a couple of things real quick, we just wanna say thank you for letting us come into your city because wow, that is a lucky call on our end. Thank you for having us.
Christine Schiefer: We are so excited to see all of you guys in person in future moments, but before we get started, we have a couple little announcements.
Em Schulz: Yes. First of all, please no photography. Umm. Also, put your phones away, but make sure you fill up those drinks because it's about to get fucking weird.
Christine Schiefer: We are gonna have a good time, guys, so get your drinks full, pocket those phones and I guess do we walk out now?
Em Schulz: No, I think... I think here's what we should do. I think we should walk out, but first we should play the, the and that's why we pony, if you will.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, that's right. I guess we do that part first.
Em Schulz: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We should play that. I think... I think everyone will have a good time with that. But I think everyone should clap then and then we should go out. But if they don't clap, then we don't go out.
Christine Schiefer: All right. If they don't clap, we're not going anywhere.
Em Schulz: Right. So and that's why we pony, then they clap and then we make like quite a grand entrance. Everyone's gonna be so excited.
Christine Schiefer: Oh yeah. We're gonna have a blast. All right. Ready? Go.
[music]
[applause]
Em Schulz: Hello.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my. Hello, Albany. Hi.
Em Schulz: You're my uncle. Hi. How are you? Hello. Didn't know you were coming. Hello.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It's a family reunion.
Em Schulz: Hello. You're my Aunt. Hi.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Hello. You're my... No, I don't have anything. Nobody's here to support me. But it's fine.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: They are. Oh, Team Women's here. Okay, good. Thank you.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Team Women.
Em Schulz: Okay. Well, hello Albany. Let's just start there.
Christine Schiefer: Hello Albany. Hi. Let's start over. Hi.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: I started the evening with some vodka, so I'm doing it different tonight, so good luck. Good luck to me and good luck to you.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: We'll see what happens.
Em Schulz: Uh. Thank you for being our, uh, penultimate show of the tour.
Christine Schiefer: Penultimate. Yes.
Em Schulz: Uh. We have one more show after this and then we're done.
Christine Schiefer: Penultimate. That's my favorite word. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: I think you were the only person who cared that I used that word.
Christine Schiefer: I cared.
Em Schulz: Everyone else was kinda silent. But uh, we only have one more show after this and then we're done for the entire year, touring.
Christine Schiefer: Surprise.
Em Schulz: "Oh. Oh no, don't go." I know.
Christine Schiefer: I know you're gonna miss us so much, it's really hard. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Umm. We just wanted to say thank you. You're our first show after we just went to The Webbys.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: So that was a big thing.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: So we're like super red carpet famous now. Umm.
Em Schulz: No. So we walked our first...
Christine Schiefer: Just kidding. It was very sad.
Em Schulz: We walked our first red carpet...
Christine Schiefer: Oh it was a mess.
Em Schulz: And we were horrible at it.
Christine Schiefer: Horrible.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: We were walking around and they were like, "Okay, look over here," and we both like look in opposite directions.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And they kept going, "You have to look at the same camera," and I'm like, I have never been yelled at by a photographer.
Em Schulz: Apparently, if you don't look at the same camera, your picture doesn't end up on Google Images.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So there are no pictures of us on Google Images, but our guests are on Google Images 'cause they were looking at the camera.
Christine Schiefer: Oops.
Em Schulz: So that's nice. Umm. My mom is obsessed with Michael Douglas.
Christine Schiefer: So is my mother.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So is every mother, maybe?
Christine Schiefer: I don't know.
Em Schulz: They were, I guess fighting over him and then realized he was sitting eight feet away from us. So then my mom was like, "I'll play it cool tonight. I'll play it cool." And then I caught her like trying to like bump bows with, uh, Michael Douglas's children and be like, "Oh, I didn't know you were his children. Let me just sit next to you."
Christine Schiefer: Poor Tom was just still at the table like...
Em Schulz: Yes.
Christine Schiefer: "Guess I'll sit with you guys."
Em Schulz: Umm. So anyway, thank you for having us after that, and then uh, and then we go home and then we're gonna start recording episodes that don't sound like shitty audio. Just so you know.
Christine Schiefer: That we're... We literally recorded before, like an hour before we got here. Umm.
Em Schulz: Yeah. So this week coming up is gonna be more shitty audio. Sorry.
Christine Schiefer: Super interesting. We were in our separate hotel rooms.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Seven feet away.
Em Schulz: It was our first long distance recording.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: But it was really long distance, we were on the same floor and only like 10 feet away from each other.
Christine Schiefer: But somebody here saw us at our hotel. [chuckle] Who are you? Are you there?
Em Schulz: Oh, don't... Oh shit.
Christine Schiefer: There you are.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Don't follow them to their hotel.
Christine Schiefer: Oh yeah, don't tell anyone what hotel... Oh shit, I do this every time.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: We're saying at the, uh, what's uh, the... What's the real...
Em Schulz: I don't know what you're about to say.
Christine Schiefer: What's the fancy one?
Em Schulz: The Four Seasons. We're at the Four Seasons.
Christine Schiefer: The Four Seasons. Yes.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: The penthouse suite. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: There was one time where Christine just like right up and told everyone where we were saying.
Christine Schiefer: I was like, "We got to the Holiday Inn," and everyone was like, "Oh."
[laughter]
Em Schulz: And then halfway through she was like, "The Westin, just kidding." I was like, "Like you didn't get absolutely caught."
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Anyway, before we get started, we do have a drinking game, if anyone is willing and able to play with us.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: I am willing and/or able. So let's go.
Em Schulz: It sounds like they know what alcohol is, so I think they're gonna have a good time.
Christine Schiefer: Thank God.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So uh, basically I made the rules. So it's drink whenever Christine does anything.
Christine Schiefer: Well...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: That's like our veiled attempt at basically saying, drink until we're funny. That's the main...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: We used to try to hide our motives, but not anymore.
Em Schulz: That's like the end game. Hashtag Avengers. But...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Stop doing that. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: But so drink until we're funny. Or if you're like a rules person, uh, drink if, uh, Christine says "listen".
Christine Schiefer: It's extremely rare, so you won't have to worry.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Worry about that one bit.
Em Schulz: And then drink if Christine gasps.
Christine Schiefer: Also very unlikely.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Very unlikely. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: So at this point you're in a good zone.
Christine Schiefer: Well...
Em Schulz: If not inebriated.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Umm. And then drink of Christine goes, "Sure. Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure."
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, I do do that one quite often, so I apologize in advance. However, I made my own rule, and that is that you have to drink every time Em says "fun fact". Which is a lot.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: And often, never fun.
Christine Schiefer: No.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Literally never fun.
Em Schulz: Usually makes you hate yourself for hearing it.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: But I had to read it on Wikipedia, so you have to listen to me say it, so.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: But we allow you to drink about it, so that's okay.
Em Schulz: Uh, drink if we talk about the sweet Baboo, little baby Gio.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: 48 hours, counting down.
Em Schulz: And uh, and then drink if we tell Eva what to do. Which has already happened a hundred times today.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my. There's this drink here called like a Cougar Catcher, or some shit.
Em Schulz: Cougar Bait.
Christine Schiefer: Cougar Bait.
Em Schulz: Which is what they call me.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I just hate that. Okay.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: So I wanted to try it, 'cause why not. And then, uh, I drank it way too fast. And then I was like, "Eva, will you order me another one?" And she's like, "What's it called?" AndI was like, "Cougar Bait," and then...
Em Schulz: I think you just wanted her to have to go to ask someone...
Christine Schiefer: I did. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: For Cougar Bait.
Christine Schiefer: Poor thing.
Em Schulz: Um. She I think is so excited to never see our faces again after the next couple of days. Uh. We... In the last, uh, how long have we been touring now, four months?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: We have asked her to do precisely 1000 ridiculous things. So...
Christine Schiefer: Precisely.
Em Schulz: She is very excited to take a breath, but can we all also please give her a round of applause for being so awesome.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: At our penultimate show.
Em Schulz: At our penultimate show. Um. So I guess that's it for the drinking... Oh, there are bonus rounds for the drinking game.
Christine Schiefer: I don't love the bonus rounds.
Em Schulz: Uh. Drink twice if we talk about, uh, my arch-nemesis, Lemon.
Christine Schiefer: Well, we've done that. So drink up.
Em Schulz: If you're not caught up with the episodes, 'cause there are a few people who aren't, and they've reached out to us and they, I guess, pick up halfway through and they're like, "Oh, who's lemons? Is that a new dog or a new cat?" And I have to tell them it's a new lemon that Christine has decided to befriend.
Christine Schiefer: Well, he was lonely. Okay, we'll get into it later.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: And then drink twice if, uh, I go, "Honestly, it's just funny."
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I'm not saying I'm mad, I'm just saying it's funny how that happened.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: You have family here. Please stop.
Em Schulz: Allison loves when I do that to her, by the way.
Christine Schiefer: No, she doesn't.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Literally nobody does.
Em Schulz: Uh. Actually, Christine genuinely hates it.
Christine Schiefer: I do.
Em Schulz: So behind closed doors in our friendship, if I ever go, "Honestly, it's just funny," she goes, "Honestly, shut the fuck up."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And guess what? You never do. So I don't even...
Em Schulz: I've woven it into our career, so you're stuck with me.
Christine Schiefer: I don't know why I try.
Em Schulz: Uh. That being said, umm, order your Ubers now, because hopefully you get nice and tipsy.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Make your rules up, we just do it as we go along.
Em Schulz: And until then, I guess let's crack into it?
Christine Schiefer: Yes.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: All right.
Em Schulz: Good, good, good.
Christine Schiefer: Oh-oh.
Em Schulz: Oh-oh.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, here they are.
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I was keeping them in a safe place.
Em Schulz: That would have been fun if you had to make up a whole story from memory.
Christine Schiefer: That would have been fun.
Em Schulz: So, because we are nearing the end, uh, I have a little bit of senioritis, in that like I've done this a lot of times now making notes. And uh, usually what I do is I try to condense them down so they're a little shorter, umm, but I didn't do that, so you're getting a longer story. So...
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: You're the only person with senioritis who does more...
Em Schulz: Who does more work.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's fine, it's just funny.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It's literally not. Okay.
Em Schulz: So the... Here's a good thing and a bad thing about Albany. You ready? Hang in there. Hang in there.
Christine Schiefer: Hey, watch what you say. Whatever you say, I'm not a part of it.
Em Schulz: So the good thing is that you guys have a lot of ghosts. Okay?
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
[applause]
Em Schulz: The bad thing is that all the ghost stories are kind of short, so they didn't make one long story. So then it goes back to another good thing and you get two stories.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: Six people were excited about that.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Good.
Christine Schiefer: Thank you.
Em Schulz: Maybe by the end, seven. So...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Maybe. Let's see.
Em Schulz: Uh. This is the story of the... Oh, by the way. Whether or not you know it, clap. Because I have anxiety. So...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. And keep that going through the whole show. Thank you.
Em Schulz: Keep that going until we're like in Long Island tomorrow.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Life far, far away.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Umm. This is the story of the New York State Capitol.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
[applause]
Em Schulz: You should know what that is, but.
Christine Schiefer: I don't think that was a pity clap. However, I need you to do that again when I say my story. Just saying.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: Don't forget.
Em Schulz: We'll know if it sounds like a golf clap. Like, "That's cute."
Christine Schiefer: "Interesting."
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So uh, it is the seat of the New York State government on State Street and part of the Empire State Complex. Ooh, aah.
Christine Schiefer: Ooh, aah.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: That's right.
Christine Schiefer: They actually did it.
Em Schulz: I know.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: 50 cities, you're the first people to actually "ooh, aah" without me telling you what to do.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: However, we were in Wisconsin and all these people were like like, "Ooh."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: That wasn't incredible.
Em Schulz: The Midwest was very nice to us. At one point I asked their opinion and people raised their hands.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. I was like, "Oh, who here?" And they silently... So good.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Uh. Apparently, uh, the price of it, I accidentally erased that note. So...
Christine Schiefer: So you made it super long and then erased the one...
Em Schulz: Erased the important things.
Christine Schiefer: Cool.
Em Schulz: So whatever the original price was when it was built, umm, is the equivalent in today's money it costs $753 million to make.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. So 42.97 million.
Em Schulz: So like a nickel. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: It's considered the most expensive government building of its time. It is on the National Register of Historic Places, and it's a national historic landmark as of the 1970s. It was built in 1899, designed by five architects, and it took over 32 years to build. Oh, it was $25 million in the 1800s.
Christine Schiefer: I was close. Not really.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: You were close with the nickel though.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Basically the same thing.
[chuckle]
Em Schulz: Uh. It is one out of 65 properties on the Haunted History Trail of New York.
Christine Schiefer: That's fun.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: There's a trail.
Em Schulz: There's a whole trail.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Okay, I can get down with a trail.
Em Schulz: It is... The building is five stories plus a basement and an attic. The walls are, they start at 4 feet thick and end at 16 feet thick, uh, and its foundation.
Christine Schiefer: That scares me a little bit.
Em Schulz: So big boy. So...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Body positivity. That's fine. You can be 16 feet thick. That's fine.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Hell yeah.
Em Schulz: It also has a vaulted ceilings and 23-karat gold leaves on the wall.
Christine Schiefer: Shit.
Em Schulz: It sounds like my room.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Sounds like the podcast studio for sure. Gold leaf plunger fork.
Em Schulz: Right, right, right.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Wow, we haven't talked about the plunger in a long time.
Christine Schiefer: Aww. Aww.
Em Schulz: Everyone who doesn't know what that is, sorry. You'll learn about it another time.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It's cause we eventually had to use the plunger and then it no longer...
Em Schulz: We didn't reuse it as a fork.
Christine Schiefer: No.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Once it was property of the toilet, we never touched it again.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. It lost its magic a little bit.
Em Schulz: 23-karat leaves on the walls, uh, marble from Italy, granite from Scotland, and onyx from Mexico.
Christine Schiefer: Jesus.
Em Schulz: It has an assembly chamber and three staircases with skylights.
Christine Schiefer: Ooh.
Em Schulz: Thank you.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Thanks guys, I feel affirmed now.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: The central staircase is called the Great Western Staircase, and it has 444 steps and it is 120 feet tall. Oh my goodness. I just thought of all the steps I'd have to climb.
Christine Schiefer: I know.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Never take me there. It's like a Stair Master.
Christine Schiefer: Jump on the trail, the haunted trail.
Em Schulz: Uh. It costs a million... Just the staircase alone cost a million dollars. And it took 14 years of work to complete.
Christine Schiefer: What the hell? It's a staircase.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Obviously nicknamed the Million Dollar Staircase. Throughout the...
Christine Schiefer: Oh God. That sounds like a TLC show.
Em Schulz: It does.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Like Million Dollar Matchmaker Staircase.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Throughout the staircase are corridors and pillars made of intricately carved sandstone. And it took over 500 sandstone carvers to design the entire area by carving in famous people's faces. Including ours.
Christine Schiefer: Ours too. Yeah.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Stupid joke.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: That we both made.
Em Schulz: It was a throwaway. Umm.
Christine Schiefer: 500. How do you find 500 specific sandstone carvers?
Em Schulz: I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: In Albany, New York. No offense, but that just seems like a very specific job title.
Em Schulz: I don't... Well, they all... So actually, kind of to answer your question, they all came from Scotland and Italy.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. We never actually get answers, so that made me happy.
Em Schulz: So someone went to Italy and was just like, "All aboard," and like 500 people...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Over to Albany, yeah. "Let's go."
Em Schulz: All be... No, no.
Christine Schiefer: We'll workshop it. [chuckle] Eva, figure it out for later.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Edit this out, Eva.
[chuckle]
Em Schulz: So more than 500 carvers were told to design the area and put famous faces on the walls. Umm. They had up to 77 recognizable faces, including Ulysses S. Grant and Abraham Lincoln.
Christine Schiefer: I like that there are 500 famous people, but only 77 were recognizable.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Right. Some people didn't really know, like they weren't good at faces, I guess.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: There's a lot of weird smiley faces carved in there.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Umm. The rest, so probably the other several hundred faces, are known as the Capitol's Unknown.
Christine Schiefer: Wait. That's very, nope, unsettling. I don't like that.
Em Schulz: They just have not been recognized, apparently.
Christine Schiefer: Sad.
Em Schulz: Most of the stone carvers, like I said, are from Scotland, UK and Italy, and also as a reward for, uh, doing this project, they also got to carve in a memory of theirs or face of someone they loved.
Christine Schiefer: Oh that's nice.
Em Schulz: So that's a lot of the Capitol's Unknown, because a lot of them are family members of the carvers.
Christine Schiefer: Aww.
Em Schulz: Umm. Yeah, precious.
Christine Schiefer: Precious.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: A little creepy.
Em Schulz: It's probably the last precious thing you'll hear what I'm talking about ghosts, so.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I don't make it much better, so don't get excited.
Em Schulz: So one unknown carver, uh, they never figured out who it was, uh, the face that he shows to carve into the sandstone leaf was the face of the devil.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Speaking of senioritis, that'd be a good prank, like senior prank.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Like, "I'm out of here. Back to Italy."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Back on the boat.
Em Schulz: So they... Apparently, it's really hard to find at first, but if you're looking hard enough, you can find it. And...
Christine Schiefer: We'll find it.
Em Schulz: Well, hang on. There's a quote from the tour guide that says, "The story goes, if you can find this demon on your own without help from another, you are yourself the devil."
[laughter]
Em Schulz: We're fucked.
Christine Schiefer: Well, if it is on top of the staircase, we might never find it.
Em Schulz: Right. Oh, that's for sure. Until they build an elevator, I'll never see the ceiling.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It depends on where it's located.
Em Schulz: Right, right, right. Unless I've got like my joggers on. Umm. Fuck.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: It's rumored that whoever carved the devil into the building also placed a curse on the building.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. That's not nice.
Em Schulz: So that's the beginning of the dark stuff. So...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Let's move on to death.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Hurray.
Em Schulz: Yee-haw. So...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: In 1878, uh, a worker fell from scaffolding while plastering the ceilings in the state assembly room. He fell on a Saturday night and he was found on a Monday morning.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: Still alive.
Christine Schiefer: What? Oh no.
Em Schulz: He died on Wednesday. So...
Christine Schiefer: That's terrible.
Em Schulz: Survived for another two days after he was found.
Christine Schiefer: Holy shit.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Apparently he fell from like the fourth floor and everything, and there's marble, so...
Christine Schiefer: Eew.
Em Schulz: Anyway. So do you like how I try to make this funny, but I just skip past it, just to rip it off like a band-aid?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So in 1879, a year later, uh, there was an artist named William Morris Hunt, and he painted two murals for the assembly chapter on the actual walls themselves, and they were 40-feet murals. So also big boys. And due to structural damage in the building, the ceiling had to be changed and so the murals got covered up, so all of his hard work went, uh, was for nothing.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no.
Em Schulz: And then there was a fire in 1911 that, uh, damaged the rest of his paintings and they could not be salvaged, so all the art he has ever done in there was totally gone. Apparently, he was distraught about this and died by suicide.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no.
Em Schulz: Umm. Fun fact.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Did we tell you or did we tell you?
Em Schulz: His tombstone is carved to look like a tree stump.
Christine Schiefer: What the fuck?
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Your aunt thinks that's really funny.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I knew you and I were one and the same here.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Uh. Apparently it looks like a tree stump because it's supposed to mean that his life was cut short.
Christine Schiefer: Well, okay.
Em Schulz: Yeah, how do you feel now?
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: You really ruined the fun times we were all having together.
Em Schulz: So, uh, in 1890, there was a fruit vendor that worked across... Okay.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I think it's funny too. Okay.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I mean, that is like the most lighthearted thing you're gonna hear, so you gotta laugh when you can. So...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. You gotta really force it.
Em Schulz: Right. So a fruit vendor... "Ha ha ha."
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Umm. Was having financial problems, ran into the building and jumped off the fourth floor.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my.
Em Schulz: But aren't you glad you laughed about the, that fruit vendor?
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Weren't you glad I...
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Get out please.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: This is Show 41, I'm ready to finally... Finally punch you on stage.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: What a joy that would be.
Em Schulz: Finally. Finally. Everyone knows. So...
[chuckle]
Em Schulz: In 1911, the same fire I was talking about earlier, uh, was potentially caused by electrical wiring, but a lot of people don't believe that because apparently it happens spontaneously on an office desk by itself. So...
Christine Schiefer: What?
Em Schulz: They don't know what caused the fire. They was just a fire all of a sudden. Umm. But they're calling it electrical wiring so that they have a cause, but there's no proof of that. Umm. So during that same fire, there was a night guard named Sam. Sam was 78. Uh. And Sam was the only person to die in the fire.
Christine Schiefer: Aww.
Em Schulz: He died of smoke inhalation.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no.
Em Schulz: And he was...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: We're nervous laughing. That's what's happening here.
Christine Schiefer: It happens a lot.
Em Schulz: He, uh, was the only person to die, but he was so badly involved in the fire that he was only identified by his wristwatch.
Christine Schiefer: What the fuck?
Em Schulz: He, uh, was seen right before, umm, in the building, flinging windows open and attempting to save the, uh, rare records from the fire.
Christine Schiefer: What the fuck?
Em Schulz: So he stayed behind trying to save all of the documents.
Christine Schiefer: Sam, no.
Em Schulz: Because of this, the governors deemed Sam the most dedicated watchman in New York.
Christine Schiefer: Aww.
Em Schulz: And they gave him a plaque that's still in the building. J.
Christine Schiefer: Aww. I hope he's a happy ghost, if he shows up again.
Em Schulz: You'll find out.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I always try to guess who's gonna come back in the story.
Em Schulz: I don't like talking about death, but something has to happen for people to turn into ghosts, so that's how... That's why this whole section happened.
Christine Schiefer: Circle of life. Yeah.
Em Schulz: So there's a bonus dead body in here.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: You're welcome.
Em Schulz: What could that mean? I'll tell you. So after Ulysses S. Grant died, he did not die on the property or anything like that, but apparently he had some ties to this building and his body was displayed there for 24 hours.
Christine Schiefer: That's cool. What the fuck?
Em Schulz: In 1885, he was on display in the building for one day, and there was an estimated 50,000 people who came to see his body.
Christine Schiefer: What a weird thing. Okay.
Em Schulz: Fun fact.
Christine Schiefer: Fun fact. All right.
Em Schulz: Uh. So in 2003, the building started hosting a haunted tours, uh, which are free to the public on Halloween.
Christine Schiefer: Nice.
Em Schulz: And uh, the education coordinator and the main tour guide, his name I shit you not, is Stewart Lehman.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Drink!
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: What if... Hold on. What if...
Em Schulz: What?
Christine Schiefer: What if I had gone into Wikipedia and like changed it before?
Em Schulz: Shit. The fact that you said it makes it now seem less likely, but had I not known, I would have believed it if I heard it from someone else.
Christine Schiefer: Damn.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Also... Actually, this is very a slick move on your end because I didn't know that... I was just reading the name and not paying attention. 'Cause it's L-E-H-M-A-N.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: So then I had to read it out loud and I was like, "That is lemon."
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So that was, if you did this, job well done, you caught me.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Well, it's all for the drinking game.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Well, Stewart Lehman, uh, is the main tour guide, and he gets really invested in the tour. He dresses in 19th century clothing all the way down to the spectacles and pocket watch.
Christine Schiefer: Is he like supposed to, or he just does that?
Em Schulz: I think he just does it.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, good.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I just wanted to make sure.
Em Schulz: But I get that tour is pretty bitchin. I mean, if he's like...
Christine Schiefer: Oh hell yeah, he's committed.
Em Schulz: He's like volunteering to over-dress, so you know his stories were gonna be good.
Christine Schiefer: He's like on eBay buying the right like leather vest.
Em Schulz: He's like, "I need the perfect bowler hat." Yes.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So uh, there are possibly more ghosts, uh, on the property, but because it's a state government building, uh investigation groups are not allowed to, uh, stay overnight and they're not allowed to reveal what they've seen.
Christine Schiefer: What?
Em Schulz: That sounds a little conspiracy-like to me, but...
Christine Schiefer: I don't love that.
Em Schulz: So it was hard to find a lot of, umm, ghost stuff because it's hard to... Basically, I only got information from tour guides that were willing to talk, so...
Christine Schiefer: Jesus. Okay.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So I will now try to tell you in as much detail as possible about, uh, about the ghosts.
Christine Schiefer: Great.
Em Schulz: And uh, I got most of it from tour guides, but there was one article that I really appreciated called, "What's that draft? Could it be a G-G-G-G-ghost?"
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Oh right, I also wrote that last night.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I forgot. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: I remember reading the title and being like, even if this provides no information for me, I'm gonna say that on stage.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So here are the ghosts.
Christine Schiefer: It sounds like the title of a Scooby-Doo episode.
Em Schulz: It does.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Who's the one... I guess none of them have a stutter, do they? "G-G-G-G-ghost".
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, Shaggy.
Em Schulz: All right. Well, that is a perfect fit then, isn't it?
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I said it, I don't know if it's true, but I have a microphone, so. Sorry.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I... Whatever. I was about to go into a Scooby-Doo tangent. Umm.
Christine Schiefer: We've done that before, we don't need to do that right now.
Em Schulz: We have. Umm. And at the end of our interview, we did a Scooby-Doo trivia game and I kicked Christine's ass. That's all.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, but because I didn't cheat and read all the Scooby-Doo trivia on the internet before the case.
Em Schulz: No, I came prepared to an interview, is what I did.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Well, I came not prepared, so welcome to our show. Okay.
Em Schulz: So, uh, there are hauntings that have been published in... Hauntings on this property have been published in a whole lot of, uh, Albany or New York haunted house books, it's supposedly one of the more haunted places. Umm. In the 1911 fire, like I said, uh, a lot of, uh, documents were destroyed that Sam wasn't able to save. The number is somewhere over 500,000 books...
Christine Schiefer: What?
Em Schulz: And 270,000 original early American documents were all destroyed in the fire.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no.
Em Schulz: Umm. In the same space, however, were archives of several irreplaceable sacred native artifacts.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no.
Em Schulz: And there are beliefs that there are some native people, uh, I guess guarding their own property in the building, because even though everything around it caught on fire and got destroyed, umm, none of their stuff was touched.
Christine Schiefer: What?
Em Schulz: There's a quote saying, "Not a single object sacred to their religion or to their mystery cults was spoiled by the fire, even the hair on the wonderful medicine mask was unsinged."
Christine Schiefer: Wow. Cool.
Em Schulz: Fun fact. So...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: There's another quote that says, "Everyone knows that there's something here. We had a guy who would never go to the fifth floor for the fire inspections because he swore there was a ghost up there and everyone called him George." Okay?
Christine Schiefer: The guy or the ghost?
Em Schulz: I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I'm serious. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: I'm guessing the ghost, but at the same time, all of the people I've listened, no one's saying, George. Can't you just guess with a name that we have on file?
Christine Schiefer: Stewart Lehman.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Mr. Lehman. So, many people have reported seeing a dark shadow fall to the floor and nobody's there.
Christine Schiefer: Oh God.
Em Schulz: People have seen a shadow man fall or jump off of the stairs on the top floor, and they've also heard sounds of heavy... Heavy breathing and crying. Uh. People see things run past them in the corner of their eyes, and they have picked up a digital recording of a voice that was not there, umm, of a guy saying, "William Morris is behind the door."
Christine Schiefer: Oh. What a weirdly specific quote.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: No, thank you.
Em Schulz: I wonder if William Morris is talking about himself in the third person, and he's got like his ghost wingman to like let them know.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: "He wants you to know."
Em Schulz: "My friend over there wants me to tell you that he likes you. He's behind the door."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: "He thinks you're cute." Anyway.
Em Schulz: So apparently there's a gray blurry figure that has passed through the corridor and has moved so fast it has knocked women off their feet. Umm.
Christine Schiefer: Only women?
Em Schulz: Only women.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Apparently, it ran through a guy, so a guy walking down the hall, this blurry thing went through him as he was running down the corridor.
Christine Schiefer: He's too to fall over, though.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: Right. Got it.
Em Schulz: And if you experience this blurry figure, it leaves you feeling ice cold. Umm. There's an apparition that has sped down the hallway so fast that women's skirts have flown up.
Christine Schiefer: Interesting trend I see going on here.
Em Schulz: It's like the Marilyn Monroe like on the grate thing, but like it's not a grate, it's just a ghost flying by you.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And also you're probably falling also. So it's like less...
Em Schulz: And you're not Marilyn Monroe, so.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So little less exciting and little less cute. People have said that they have seen or taken pictures of the carved faces and only the eyes glow.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, cool.
Em Schulz: Mediums have reported meeting Sam and they say that he's very friendly and likes the medium is talking to him.
Christine Schiefer: That's nice.
Em Schulz: Apparently, they've asked like, "What are you up to after 100 years?" And he's like, "Just working." So he's like, does his little duties and...
Christine Schiefer: I love Sam.
Em Schulz: Apparently if you encounter him, he's just working and he doesn't mean to bother you. Which is precious.
Christine Schiefer: Wait. I love that.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Don't laugh at me.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Look, wouldn't you rather have a ghost that's like disciplined and responsible and doing his job, instead of like possessing you?
Christine Schiefer: Like lifting your skirt up and pushing you over.
Em Schulz: Right. That's definitely not Sam. That is unethical.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Sam's just patrolling for those guys.
Em Schulz: Right, right. So there's a quote of a tour guide saying, We did get several really amazing orb pictures off of the balcony and by the staircase." Oh, this isn't a tour guide, this is a tour guest. Umm. "Our small granddaughter was with us, and every time we go by there now, she tells us about the time that she met the people that were there." Umm. According to her description, she probably met Sam, but nobody was with them on the tour, and she just keeps talking about all the people she met.
Christine Schiefer: Oh dear.
Em Schulz: Hopefully it was Sam.
Christine Schiefer: That's troubling.
Em Schulz: There's apparently the ghost of Abraham Lincoln.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Listen, everyone thinks they have the ghost of Abraham Lincoln.
Em Schulz: I've covered like 60 stories were Lincoln is somehow involved. That guy is going places.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Ulysses S. Grant was the one who's actually there.
Em Schulz: He's a globetrotter.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: He's busy, he only shows up once as a dead body, Ulysses S. Grant.
Christine Schiefer: He did his time. Okay.
Em Schulz: But Lincoln apparently shows up on his anniversary of his death all the time. Uh, his...
Christine Schiefer: He just like wants to get out of DC on that day.
[chuckle]
Em Schulz: Okay, fair.
Christine Schiefer: I mean...
Em Schulz: His body was taken by train to his resting place, but on the way, apparently the train made a stop at this building.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: And so workers think that this was the last couple of minutes where his like spirit and his body were still connected. So when they passed through, he might have still kind of been with us.
Christine Schiefer: Aww.
Em Schulz: Umm. So they say that on the anniversary of his death, workers on that train line, umm, very often get haunted in the building and there are reports of an apparition of a train car that can be seen speeding down Albany. Just flying down.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I tell you what, we were on a train today to Albany.
Em Schulz: We were. It was not an apparition and it wasn't speeding down haphazardly down your city.
Christine Schiefer: Oh it was speeding haphazardly and I got very motion sick. But it's all okay.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Well, apparently people see this train car and as it's speeding towards the building, it vanishes.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, toward the building? Oh yeah...
Em Schulz: Ours did not do that.
Christine Schiefer: No, ours wasn't doing that. To be clear.
Em Schulz: When approaching, apparently... This I don't understand, and I feel like it deserved a lot more explanation and I'm surprised Google did not offer that to me.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: You see the black train car speeding toward Albany and then vanishing and when approaching, it has, "Thousands of blue skeletons in the sky."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: What?
Em Schulz: That sounds like a lucid dream. I don't... Sounds like a fever dream. If you see a blue skeleton, it means it's Lincoln died on this day.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: This important anniversary.
Em Schulz: We've been warned. So...
Christine Schiefer: Or like Em and I are on the train and coming to town for a show. I don't know.
Em Schulz: We have... Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just gonna let it stop there, so. Umm.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: That's the end of that story, but do I have a quick one that I wanted to share with you. This one is closer to Lake George, and it's...
[applause]
Em Schulz: Which is like one of my favorite places in the world, by the way.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: Em says that about every city we go to. No, I'm just kidding. Not true.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I grew up going to Lake George every summer and...
Christine Schiefer: You did?
Em Schulz: My parents were like kids on the campground together. Yeah.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: Your parents did what?
Em Schulz: So my dad separately...
Christine Schiefer: You said they would kiss at the campground?
Em Schulz: No, they... What?
[laughter]
Em Schulz: They were kids.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. Oh boy. Okay. I was like, knowing Linda, I don't know what she was doing.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: She, uh, when she was a little girl she used to go to the campgrounds, and when my dad was little he would go to the campgrounds. So they are... Even they are not sure, that maybe there's a chance they were crossing paths.
Christine Schiefer: Missed connections. Cute.
Em Schulz: And then when my mom first...
Christine Schiefer: They're divorced now, so don't worry.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Like three marriages ago, so don't...
Christine Schiefer: It's old news.
Em Schulz: There's no harm, no foul.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: But when they were very in love like a thousand years ago, when my mom was first, uh, meeting my dad's family, they were building their own lakehouse on the lake. So then I grew up in the house that my mom and my dad built together with my dad's family. So I'm... Yeah, aww.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: But they love other people now. So...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Umm. But no, I'm like, I love Lake George, I have all these memories of Saratoga and Ticonderoga and the Adirondacks and all that, so.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: Me too.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Okay, moving on. So the story I'm covering is Fort William Henry.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: It is in the top five things to do in Lake George and four out of five stars on Trip Advisor.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Okay, decent. All right.
Em Schulz: It's also been featured on Ghost Hunters on the Sci-Fi network, which my dad lovingly calls See-fee.
Christine Schiefer: Full circle.
[chuckle]
Em Schulz: So super quick history. During the French-Indian war Fort William Henry was destroyed, and the current one is a replica that was built in the 1950s. Umm. I'm sorry, many people were soldiers that were wounded and staying in it when it was a field hospital, and they all ended up dying when soldiers came in and scalped and disemboweled them.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: : Moving along. So...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Umm. Reports say that anywhere between 200 and a cool 1500 people were killed there.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: Depending on if you include their wives and children, which I do. Well, unless you think they're like not worth it. Umm.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: But probably around 1500 people.
Christine Schiefer: Yuck.
Em Schulz: Uh. So then I'm just going strange into the ghost. So there is the spirit of a Native-American chief named... Oh, I should have practised this.
Christine Schiefer: Oh-oh. Here we go.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Taukolexis. Okay?
Christine Schiefer: That sounds not right. But...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Well, so he was a Native American chief on the property, he was hanged at one point before the uh, building was even, had even finished, so he's been there longer than the building has. Apparently he stays by the tree he was hanged on.
Christine Schiefer: Oh dear.
Em Schulz: But he appears as a bright white glow to people who don't feel safe.
Christine Schiefer: Aww. He's like Sam's friend.
Em Schulz: People also see patrolling soldiers walking the halls, they hear heavy boot steps, they hear knocks, coughing and laughter. They see an apparition of a wounded soldier moaning in pain and then fading away in front of your very eyes.
Christine Schiefer: Oh-oh.
Em Schulz: People have experienced flashing lights, streaks of color, orbs in pictures and orbs that just fly all over you. People have also seen shadows circling around people. There's one ghost apparently named Limper, because he was, umm, one of his legs was amputated.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Well that's kinda rude.
Em Schulz: I didn't choose that name. That was the real thing.
Christine Schiefer: I didn't either, by the way. I wouldn't go on there and do that.
Em Schulz: Apparently in the 1950s they found a, they dug up a body that didn't have one of his legs, and they assumed that that must also be the ghost that has uneven footsteps, so they call him Limper.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Okay, moving on.
Christine Schiefer: Moving on.
Em Schulz: There's also Slammer.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Who is it ghost that slams doors in people's faces.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: We were at Slammer when we were 13, so.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Very original.
Em Schulz: There are spirits of officers that get mad at guides for disturbing their area. Apparently people feel tugged, pushed and they even hear voices saying, "Please go away."
Christine Schiefer: Oh. Also us at 13.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: You were more polite than me at 13.
Christine Schiefer: Probably. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: I was, uh, much meaner. Sorry, Mom.
Christine Schiefer: I was a German child.
Em Schulz: Oh, right.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Okay. There were also voices telling guards to leave the powder magazine whenever they would try to pick up something from the area and bring it with them. They'll like say, "Leave the X." So...
Christine Schiefer: Is that a weapon?
Em Schulz: The powder magazine was a certain instance where someone picked it up...
Christine Schiefer: Is that like a weapon thing?
Em Schulz: For like a gun.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Okay.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I was a German child. I'm telling you, I don't know these things.
Em Schulz: It's okay. I'm from Virginia, I know things I'm not proud of.
Christine Schiefer: I know. That's who I am.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Very subtly asking...
Em Schulz: Into the microphone.
Christine Schiefer: Into a microphone.
Em Schulz: Into a stage whisper, yeah.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So, in the area where they store the gun powder, that's for guns too.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. I always wondered.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: There's apparently, "A soldier who used to stand watch and still thinks that he's guarding the place."
Christine Schiefer: Oh my.
Em Schulz: So apparently, he is more of an intelligent spirit that reacts pretty quickly if you say anything to provoke him. So he just stands there guarding the place all the time, and a tour guide screamed down the hall saying, "I think somebody's going to light a match down here." And then seconds later, you heard what sounds like a gunshot.
Christine Schiefer: Oh-oh.
Em Schulz: What else? Let's see, how else can I impress you? Umm.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Oh, this one's good. This one's good. Hang in there. Hang in there. Okay. There's apparently a guest on a tour was military and said, "I am a Lance Corporal of the US Marine Corps, and I have seen what you've seen and I understand where you're going through."
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God.
Em Schulz: And then that was the time that they ever... That was the most active EVPs they ever caught of digital recordings of soldiers either saying hi or sounding kinda like their last moments in life. They sounded a little in pain.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God.
Em Schulz: But it definitely stirred, uh, some activity. There was, uh, one time a medium who spoke with a man by the name of Richardson, and then they went back and confirmed in the records that a man named Richardson had died on the spot that she was standing when she talked to him. There's a quote from someone saying, "There was a tremendous massacre here, so obviously there's going to be lots and lots of spirits that died a horrible death, but it is definitely highly haunted."
Em Schulz: In 1957, it was filled with thousands of people, apparently, during the French and Indian War. So if hundreds of those people died, it's probably incredibly haunted.
[overlapping conversation]
Christine Schiefer: Get a estimate.
Em Schulz: According to like very, very basic assumptions. There's another quote saying at the time... Oh, this is a different experience with a ghost. "At the time, I was looking down and I heard somebody say, Nice hat."
Christine Schiefer: Oh that's nice.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: "And I said, Well, thank you. I just got it recently and this is the first time I wore it."
[laughter]
Em Schulz: And then he brought his head up and nobody was around him.
Christine Schiefer: He really thought someone was...
Em Schulz: He thought somebody really was complimenting his hat.
Christine Schiefer: I mean, I guess they were.
Em Schulz: And then left 'cause he was like, "I don't need to know the whole back story."
[laughter]
Em Schulz: There's another quote, "We actually do believe we have a spirit attached to a fireplace, that we call Mary. People have come down the stairs right behind us by the fireplace and they tell us they get a whisper in their ear of a woman saying, Hurry up, hurry up, hurry up."
Christine Schiefer: Oh God. Okay.
Em Schulz: "And people standing in this doorway right behind us say that they get a little shove, like someone is telling them to get out of the way."
Christine Schiefer: Oh God.
Em Schulz: Interesting.
Christine Schiefer: Interesting.
Em Schulz: Uh. Another quote is, "We actually stopped the tour because we had so much activity going on. One of the girls had orbs flying all around her, and she kept saying that she had things flying all around her face. And then a little boy kept pointing out shadow figures all over the place, and we actually had an orb appear up in front of us, and we all saw it and I actually got it to come over and land in my hand."
Christine Schiefer: Like a butterfly?
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Yeah. Like a little butter-orb.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Trademark, TM, TM, TM.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Eva, put that somewhere important.
Em Schulz: Someone put an orb on a shirt, but with wings.
Christine Schiefer: That is called a snitch.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Nailed it.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: You're welcome. We're millennials. Okay.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Stupid.
Christine Schiefer: Stupid.
Em Schulz: The last quote is, "One of my first encounters was with a spirit there that we call Shadow Man."
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, no.
Em Schulz: "When I saw it, I didn't think much of it. I just thought it was a person who came down here to say hey, but then there was no one around and it slinked away from me." And then someone said as... They asked the main tour guide what he thought, and he said, "As long as you're respectful and nothing's going to follow you home." So those were the two stories.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my.
Em Schulz: Of the New York State Capitol and Fort William Henry.
Christine Schiefer: Yay.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: Entertain for another second 'cause I wanna pour my wine.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Umm. Well pour faster, 'cause I'm blacking out.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: That was hilarious. Okay. Hello, everybody. I have a murder story for you.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: Hooray. Everyone who was dragged here is like, "Uh-uh."
[laughter]
Em Schulz: They're really saying, "Halfway there, halfway way there."
Christine Schiefer: Halfway there. You are very close, don't worry. Your story was kind of dark in some places.
Em Schulz: Thank you.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Usually mine are really light and boring, so.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. No, this one was dark. Mine's worse, so sorry. That is the story, umm, Albany, of Christopher Porco.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: They know. Someone high-fived about it. I don't... I don't think I've had a high-five about a story. I mean... Okay, great. I didn't know if you guys would know it. Sometimes I get really excited about things and say them and everyone just... Oh wait, was that a pity clap? Hold on.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Shit, I forgot I told them to do that. Okay. We're gonna pretend like you really are excited. Okay. So I do wanna say that I watched an episode on CBS of 48 Hours Mystery, and that's where I got a lot of this information, so nobody is allowed to sue me. Thank you.
Em Schulz: Oh, real quick. So you don't sue me. If you wanna know where my sources came from, it's all the first three pages of Google.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: When I typed in, "Albany, haunted."
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: If you type "Albany haunted and Albany murder."
Em Schulz: Yeah. That's pretty much it. Please don't sue us.
Christine Schiefer: Our sources.
Em Schulz: Everything's alleged.
Christine Schiefer: Alleged.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Good idea.
Em Schulz: We should have just called this tour, Allegedly.
Christine Schiefer: Allegedly.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Just, hastag Don't Sue Us.
Christine Schiefer: 20/20, Allegedly.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Here were we go. So, Peter Porco, 52-year-old lawyer for a prominent judge and his wife Joan, a children's speech pathologist at a local school district, live in Bethlehem, New York. That's close, right? I believe. Okay. I did a Google map thing.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Uh. It was like, "Do you want an Uber there?" And I was like, "No, thanks."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Umm. But it seemed to be rather close. So Bethlehem, New York. Uh. They have two grown sons. By the way, we're in 2004. Sorry, I forgot to tell you it's 50 years ago.
Em Schulz: Okay. Good to know. 15 years ago? Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: Is that right? I'm not good at math.
Em Schulz: No, that's right. I just forgot how time flies by.
Christine Schiefer: I said it and then like held my breath 'cause I was like, someone's gonna correct to. When we record at home, nobody's there to yell at me that I'm wrong, so.
Em Schulz: I'm there, I just don't.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It's 'cause you don't know any better.
Em Schulz: No, I just agree blindly. I'm like, "You're right."
Christine Schiefer: We don't know shapes or math or basic anything.
Em Schulz: Yeah. For people who like don't actively listen to the show, I did not know what a rhombus was.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I called it a slanty boy, so I don't think that's... I don't think that's much better.
Em Schulz: Most of our... If you listen to our walk on song, half of it is me saying things wrong. Like...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Some thought he was a wanton.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Thinking wanted and wanton were the same thing. And I was like, "I guess he's a wanton."
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Or segue is pronounced segoo.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I have a master's degree. Just so everyone...
Christine Schiefer: Nobody, I think believes that.
Em Schulz: They just gave it to me out of pity.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Agreed. Same. I mean, for me too.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: Umm. Cool. Anyway. You have to listen to me anyway, sorry.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Okay. So we're in 204. Uh. Peter and Joan have two grown sons who don't live with them, there's Jonathan who's 23, he's a naval officer stationed in South Carolina. And then he has a younger brother named Chris who is 21, and he's a student at the University of Rochester, which...
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: Okay. I always include the names of like places nearby, 'cause sometimes my stories are really dark and so there's only a few places you can actually get excited, so.
Em Schulz: It's also like... It's a gamble...
Christine Schiefer: Because sometimes we get, "Boo!"
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: And then I have to talk about how much I hate that university.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I don't know.
Em Schulz: We went to, uh, when we were in Wisconsin...
Christine Schiefer: Oh God.
Em Schulz: We said something about Michigan and they lost their fucking minds.
Christine Schiefer: No, no, no, it was Minneapolis.
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: Minnesota and... Listen, it's exhausting.
Em Schulz: Something happened where like, you know how everyone has that, there's that dream where they're like, "Oh, I'm on stage and everyone's boo-ing me." That happened to us.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: And there's like, "Boo!" and we were like, "Ugh, we hate them too."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And then we had to say the opposite the next day in Minneapolis. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Yeh. We were like, "We love you."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: "We hate Wisconsin."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It's exhausting. Anyway. So University of Rochester, I hear it's lovely.
[applause]
Em Schulz: Uh, three and a half hours south-ish of here, I believe? Or East? West. I also don't know cardinal directions. English is not my first language.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Uh. Okay. West. Yes. I knew that. Sort of. Okay. Late November 2004. Now things... Stop laughing, 'cause it's not funny anymore. It gets very sad. Okay. Late November 2004, someone entered the Porco residence sometime after 02:00 AM. They disabled the alarm system, went into the garage and found an axe.
Em Schulz: Oh boy.
Christine Schiefer: Oh boy.
Em Schulz: Oh boy.
Christine Schiefer: They went upstairs to the master bedroom, where Joan and Peter were sleeping, and attacked both Peter and Joan with the axe, striking them in the face and head dozens of times. They then left the axe at the foot of the bed, went outside and cut the phone lines, before fleeing into the night. What the killer did not realize however, is that Peter was still alive.
Em Schulz: Ooh.
Christine Schiefer: Oh-oh. At some point that night, he regained consciousness, and uh, they believe he was in such a profound shock that he just started going about his normal routine despite like massive head injury and...
Em Schulz: Wait, I think I've heard of this.
Christine Schiefer: I'd heard of it too, I think I'd seen it on like Forensic Files or something.
Em Schulz: It's one those things where you just don't... You don't forget it.
Christine Schiefer: Right. It's a very shocking story.
Em Schulz: Like he... I mean, you're gonna tell me, so I'll just stop talking.
Christine Schiefer: I'll tell you. But...
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: But yeah, you're probably right.
Em Schulz: Okay. Finally.
Christine Schiefer: Actually, we're probably both wrong.
Em Schulz: Two years into the show. Oh. Yeah, that sounds better.
[chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: So at some point the he regained consciousness, he started going about his normal morning routine. Uh. He was trailing... The reason they know this is because he was trailing massive amounts of blood, and so they could follow like his path throughout the house.
Christine Schiefer: He used the bathroom, then he went downstairs and began to unload the dishwasher. Uh. It's believed he was in such profound shock that he had not processed what had happened and just kind of thought, you know, it was a normal morning and went about his day. So...
Em Schulz: And didn't see the blood he was leaving everywhere.
Christine Schiefer: Just was so like disoriented and in shock that it apparently didn't occur to him. Umm. So at one point, so he unloads the dishwasher, then he packs his own lunch for the day for work, like they found his lunch box on the counter.
Em Schulz: Did he go to work?
Christine Schiefer: So...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Can you imagine all those co-workers? Can you imagine you're like on the freeway and you're like, "Wait. Ugh."
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: "Oh no." No, he did not go to work.
[chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: So he packed his own lunch, then at one point he even opens the front door and pokes his head out to look around, and they know this because there's blood on the concrete, his blood on the concrete porch out front. So at some point he opened the front door and looked around.
Christine Schiefer: And then after... At some point after wandering around seemingly kind of aimlessly throughout the first floor, Peter collapses at the base of the stairs and passes away. So Peter did not arrive for work the next morning, umm, and no one could get a hold of him, so his co-workers felt like something might be wrong, so they called the police. And when detectives arrived at the scene, they found Peter at the bottom of the stairs, where he had died a few hours earlier.
Christine Schiefer: So there's this Bethlehem police crime scene detective named Christopher Bowdish, and he was interviewed on this 48 Hours episode, so I reference him a lot. Apologies in advance. Should have changed his name to Lemon, but I didn't think of that.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: So oops. Okay. Umm. So Bowdish is at the house and his officers are going through it to clear it, make sure that the killer was not still in the house, umm, and one of his officers calls out to him from upstairs. He says, "There is another victim up here and she is still alive."
Em Schulz: Oh no.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I didn't know that part.
Christine Schiefer: I gotcha.
Em Schulz: Yes, you did.
Christine Schiefer: I don't usually drink during my own stories, but wow, okay.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: That called for it. Okay. Umm. So Detective Bowdish enters the master bedroom to see Joan Porco laying crosswise across the bed, she's umm, gesturing over to him. Like she can manage to gesture to him to come toward her. Which is very surprising, it's been several hours since she's been attacked.
Christine Schiefer: The axe wounds on her face were so bad that she couldn't speak, umm, but as they waited on medics, knowing she could die at any minute, he decided to quickly ask her a few questions to try and get as much information as possible.
Em Schulz: Sure. They got two minutes to get...
[overlapping conversation]
Christine Schiefer: Why not? I guess. Yeah, smart. My brain wouldn't have gone that far, but very smart. Umm. So when asked, when Joan was asked whether she could hear him and understand him, she nodded yes. So he knew she could understand and communicate that way.
Christine Schiefer: So, quick side note. Umm. In a strange coincidence, Bowdish had actually met Joan and Peter two years before when they had reported their, uh, laptops stolen, like someone had broken in and stolen their laptops. And it was then that he learned about their family and the people that they knew.
Christine Schiefer: And umm, so today he had noticed when the detectives came to the scene that it didn't look like a break-in, umm, there was actually a spare house key still in the front door. So nobody had broken in, nothing in the house had been taken. So he kind of considered, maybe it was an inside job, somebody she knew. So he asked Joan if she knew the killer and she nodded yes.
Christine Schiefer: When asked if it was a family member, she nodded yes again. When asked, "Did Jonathan do this to you?" her oldest son, she shook her head no aggressively. And when asked, "Did Christopher do this to you?" she nodded yes.
Em Schulz: Ooh. All right. Well, case closed.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: "The end." No. So she was rushed to the hospital and meanwhile authorities began to look for Christopher. Uh. When he hears about the attack, he rushes back home. Oh, sorry. He was more than 200 miles away. University of Rochester. Lovely place. Umm.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: He's still there in his dorm room and he hadn't heard about the attack. Apparently he heard from a reporter who called him and said like, "So what do you think about your parents' murder?" And he was like, "What?"
Em Schulz: Oh my gosh. That's the worst way.
Christine Schiefer: Rough. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: So he rushes back home to be with his mom who's taken into emergency surgery, and then he is taken to the police station where he is questioned for six hours. So at this point, obviously Detective Bowdish is like, "Chris did it." For obvious reasons.
Christine Schiefer: Umm. Chris claims he was in the lounge of his dorm building the whole night, having fallen asleep on the couch, and that he never once left campus that night. So detectives head down there to... Down... Not down, where is it? West? West there. They head left there.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I don't know. Umm. They head there to question the other students who live in the building to see if anyone had spotted him or could verify his alibi. Umm. But unfortunately for Chris, he, so he's in a fraternity and he lives on the same floor as a bunch of his frat brothers and... Ooh, excuse me.
Em Schulz: Yeah, we get it. You're the bride.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Sorry. I'm married and sometimes my ring goes all over. Em hates it. Okay. Umm. So he lived with some of his frat brothers and they actually said they had stayed up till 03:30 in the morning in the lounge and told police that, "No, like Chris was not in there. We would've seen him." Because they were, it's a small lounge. And he's like, "If he was sleeping on the couch, we would've seen him."
Christine Schiefer: So detectives search his room and his car, and Chris car is this bright yellow Jeep Wrangler with huge tires. Like it's this aggressive...
Em Schulz: Frat bro car.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Wild. It's a wild car. Umm. So they search his car and his dorm room. They don't find anything. And at this point, uh, police are still convinced Chris had something to do with it, but they're sort of at a standstill. They can't, they... There's nothing they've figured out that they can kind of pin on him.
Christine Schiefer: And that's when they check campus surveillance cameras. So on the surveillance cameras, you can see they showed it in the episode, you can see a bright yellow jeep pulling out of the parking lot of the dorm building at 10:30 PM. Umm. At 10:36, the yellow jeep is spotted off campus heading east... West.
Em Schulz: Left.
Christine Schiefer: East.
Em Schulz: Right.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I'm so confused. Oh, he's west. He's going east.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Shit. Okay.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Eva, make...
Em Schulz: At least it's not like northeast. Like we would not even know what to do with that kind of...
Christine Schiefer: No. I don't know what that means. Okay. Eva, just make it sound like I said that right. Okay. So he's heading east.
Em Schulz: Correct.
Christine Schiefer: 'Cause he is in... I was just testing you. Okay.
Em Schulz: You passed.
Christine Schiefer: You passed. Congratulations.
Em Schulz: Good job.
Christine Schiefer: Uh. So he is spotted by another camera heading east. At 10:45 PM a New York toll collector says he remembers a bright yellow jeep with giant tires going through his lane. And at 1:51 AM another toll collector says she also saw a yellow jeep with giant tires speeding through her toll lane in Albany, only... At an exit only nine miles away from the Porco residence.
Christine Schiefer: So investigators were basically thinking at this point that Chris drove from the university to his parents' house, where then he used the spare key, which was hidden under a planter out front. Don't do that.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Don't do that.
Em Schulz: And don't do that fake rock rock shit either.
Christine Schiefer: No.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: It doesn't look like a rock.
Christine Schiefer: No.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Home Depot is not fooling anyone with those. I'm telling you, don't do it.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: So they think he got the key from under a planter, entered the house. And so the alarm, so their like alarm keypad had been smashed. Umm. But they believed that he had done that to make it look like somebody had disabled it that way. But, uh, the... Hold on, I got really excited and I lost my place. Say something funny again.
Em Schulz: Uh.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Found it. Good. You're hilarious. Okay.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I'm sorry. I do that to Em all the time. It's not fair. Okay.
Em Schulz: It's like, "Be funny." And I'm like, "Aargh."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It's like when we're in an Uber and people are like, "Oh, so what show are you seeing tonight?" And we're like...
Em Schulz: "Our show."
Christine Schiefer: "Ours."
Em Schulz: Or they're like, "Oh, so who's playing tonight?" And it's like, "Us."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And they're like, "Say something funny."
Em Schulz: "You're a comedian. Wow. Tell us a joke." And I'm like, "I don't wanna."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: We're always like, "Eva, tell them a joke." Okay.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Umm. And she does.
Em Schulz: She does. And then we try to explain our show and we're like, "It's better if you just keep driving."
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: "It's like ghosts and drinking and wine and crime." And...
Christine Schiefer: To be fair, they do just usually just stay silent for the rest of the ride.
Em Schulz: It does shut them up.
Christine Schiefer: It does quick, very quickly. Like...
Em Schulz: Like, "Oh we talk about crime on stage and everyone laughs," and they're like, "Okay. Well, the next block I'll drop you off."
Christine Schiefer: "Yeah."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: They're like, "I'm glad you're in my backseat." Anyway. Uh, right. So, okay, so this little keypad was smashed. However, data stored by the alarm company shows that someone had actually deactivated the burglar alarm by entering the master code. So someone knew the code even though it had been smashed. So it was smashed to kind of look like somebody had not known the code.
Em Schulz: Got it.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, at 4:54 AM the phone company records show that the phone lines had been cut. And then at 5:12 AM a yellow jeep is spotted reentering the freeway heading west.
[applause]
Em Schulz: Imagine if you said that wrong. "South."
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: Thank you. You guys, I love you. Wow. You're prouder of me than my own parents are.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: You can call your mom later and be like, "I'm 27 and know what east is."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: We were in New York the other day. My dad was there for the Webbys and he is like, "Oh, well it looks like the restaurant's in the southwest and the sun's there." And I was like, "What the fuck?" Like, I have Google Maps.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: What Bear Grylls information do you have?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It's like, Jesus, you don't...
Em Schulz: We're gonna die so fast in the apocalypse.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I know. We're fucked. It's fine.
Em Schulz: We can't even climb 200 stairs or whatever that place was.
Christine Schiefer: And I won't either.
Christine Schiefer: We won't.
Em Schulz: Won't try...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: We give up already. Anyway. So cool. It's heading toward campus. Umm, and although they can't make out the license plate on the car, which was kind of a point of contention, the car actually had decals on the back that were like university stickers. Umm, I really wanna say it was like a Lake George sticker. I don't know if that's true. I made that up, but it would be funny. And cool.
Em Schulz: Got it.
Christine Schiefer: It probably wasn't.
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: So they showed a bunch of like decals on the back and they could match those to his car, basically. Umm. And there was also a, well, there was also a mud stain on the side of the car that one of the prosecutors in the episode was like, "It's more... " So they were like, "Oh, we matched the mud stain on the video to the mud stain on his car." Umm, it's more accurate than a fingerprint match. And I was like, no.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I was like, I'm on your side, but no.
Em Schulz: I beg to differ.
Christine Schiefer: I beg to differ a little bit.
Em Schulz: I'm not a scientist, but...
Christine Schiefer: I don't know where east is, but I beg to differ.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: So they match. So they were able to see that like at least the stickers matched on the car. On November 4th, 2005, so it's been almost a year after the attack, Chris Porco is finally charged with the murder of his father and attempted murder of his mother. When questioned, he admits that yes, it is... It is his jeep on the first surveillance video, but he says he was just moving it to park off campus for the evening, and that's it. And then he went home.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, but then prosecutors actually found a witness. His name was Marshall Gokey, and he's a neighbor of the Porcos. And he says, uh, he was heading to work around 4:00 AM when he spotted a familiar yellow jeep in their driveway and thought, "Huh, uh, looks like Chris is home." So that wasn't good.
Christine Schiefer: Things are finally looking good for the prosecution. They're like, "I think we got this guy. We know his path. We know like the timeline." And then Joan Porco, their star witness wakes up from her coma.
Em Schulz: Yay.
Christine Schiefer: Very good news. Yes.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: However, she says, no, Chris was not her attacker. And she says she has no recollection of the attack, nor does she remember indicating to police with head nods that her son had anything to do with it. And she swears that he is innocent.
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: So they kind of lost their star player.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: So a month after Chris is first charged, he's out on bail because she's like, "Nope, he didn't do it," and that was kind of the only thing they had going for them, uh, family and friends rallied to support him. They insisted he was innocent, that he could never do such a thing. Umm, his defense team actually was able to find a fingerprint on the phone box next to the cut phone cord that didn't belong to anyone in the family.
Christine Schiefer: And so they kind of pointed to that to say like it was somebody else who had come and attacked the family. Uh. And to be fair, all of the evidence so far had been circumstantial. So they were kind of hard pressed to find a way to prove that it was him.
Christine Schiefer: Uh. They also were not able to find one shred of evidence that Chris was even in the house that night. Uh, they didn't find a fingerprint, a footprint, no blood, hair, nothing in his car, in the bright yellow jeep, in the bedroom or anywhere in the house. Umm.
Christine Schiefer: And as for the surveillance video, Chris's defense basically stuck with the story that, oh, he was just parking off campus. Don't worry about it. And then the other yellow jeep was just another yellow jeep that someone was driving with big tires.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Umm. And basically their story was that by the time he got back to the lounge, his frat brothers had already gone to bed. And so when he fell asleep on the couch, they weren't there anymore and they had just missed him. So that was the story they went with.
Christine Schiefer: As for the alarm keypad, uh, Peter's friends, so the dad, Peter's friends explained that Peter himself had a habit of turning the alarm off to let the dog out at night and then forgetting to turn it back on. So that was kind of their story, is that he had turned it off before going to bed. So it had never been on that night.
Em Schulz: Got it. Got it.
Christine Schiefer: So as for the key in the front door, uh, the spare key that was hidden under a planter, don't do that. Umm, as for that, they, the defense basically said, "Well, maybe that was Peter." 'Cause remember he had, they had found his blood on the, uh, front stoop and they thought, well maybe he thought he had, he was locked out or he had gone to get a... The paper and had gotten the key out.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God. Can you imagine if you're like getting ready for work, can you like open the blinds and this guy's like with a axe wound in his head is like...
Em Schulz: Geez.
Christine Schiefer: Getting the newspaper. I mean, holy shit.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Sorry, I should have had this thought process earlier and now I'm doing it in front of you.
Em Schulz: Keep going.
Christine Schiefer: Keep going. Okay.
Em Schulz: Keep going.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: We're about to go off on a dark tangent, so...
Christine Schiefer: Welcome. So they said, well, his blood was found on the front porch. There's nothing to prove that he wasn't the one who had stuck the spare key in the front door. And they had that f mystery fingerprint on the phone box to point to.
Christine Schiefer: So the prosecution still wasn't buying it. They followed every possible lead, tried to trace a fingerprint, and it all led to dead ends. And they were still convinced Chris had something to do with it when the... So the defense was basically arguing like Chris was a beloved son, he would never harm anyone, let alone his parents. And then the prosecution basically came back like... What do the young people say, clapped back?
Em Schulz: Oh yeah.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Clapped back. Showed the receipts.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Is that a thing?
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Let's just drink 'cause of that.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Like showing... That one I know. Showing your receipts. Like showing, showing digital records. Like prove it to me where in the texts where does it say that. Right? No?
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Fuck. I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: Em, we're old. We're so old.
Em Schulz: Is everyone in here old? There's gotta...
[applause]
Em Schulz: There's gotta be like one 16-year-old. No?
Christine Schiefer: Em, they probably don't let 16 year olds in.
Em Schulz: Oh that's true.
Christine Schiefer: It's 21 and up. Oh well.
Em Schulz: Okay. But all... If teenagers could hear us right now, they'd be losing their minds at how stupid we sound. That's for sure.
Christine Schiefer: Teenage... That's why they don't listen. Okay.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: My poor little sister is just like horrified at my existence. Okay.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: "Spill the tea." Okay. I don't know.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I'm trying really hard. It's so sad. Okay. Umm. Oh no. The sad thing is, even when I was like 16, I still didn't know what the fuck anything was. Like, I still like...
Em Schulz: I was cool for like a minute and then like...
Christine Schiefer: I know you probably fucking were. I just put like skulls on my MySpace and everyone was like, "Please stop."
Em Schulz: Okay, but that's foreshadowing. That was foreshadowing.
Christine Schiefer: It is foreshadowing. It's really sad. I remember my mother saw my MySpace face and was like, "Take that down right now." And I was like, "Fine." German childhood.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Okay, so where are we? Oh, right.
Em Schulz: I don't know. [chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: Terrible, terrible murder story that I derailed to talk about my own life. Okay.
Em Schulz: Welcome to what a podcast is. [chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: Superb. Uh, right, right, right, right. So the defense was basically like, "Chris is innocent, he's this angelic child, he would never harm his parents," etcetera, etcetera. And then the, umm, prosecution showed the receipts and clapped back...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And also printed, printed out the... No, I said that already.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And also spilled the tea.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: It was lit.
Christine Schiefer: It was lit.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: It was lit AF. I'll tell you that much.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Oh no. Eva's back there like, "I quit. Goodbye."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Uh, yikes. Okay. So they were like, "You know what? No, Chris was not as angelic as he was being made out to be and we're gonna prove it." So remember the stolen laptops, the reason that, uh, what was his name? It wasn't Lemon. It was...
Em Schulz: The first investigator.
Christine Schiefer: Bowdish. Right. Bowdish. The reason Bowdish had already met, umm, Peter and Joan was because of the stolen laptops. Turns out Chris had stolen the laptops from his own parents and staged a break-in two years before.
Em Schulz: Huh.
Christine Schiefer: Yep. Not good. And uh, he had tried to, so he had stolen the laptops on break from school, University of Rochester, I hear it's lovely. Umm.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And he was home for the summer and he basically staged a break-in, stole their laptops and then tried to sell them on eBay. Uh, and when they figured out it was him and he couldn't sell the laptops, he pretended to be his own brother. Wrote to the people that he had sold them to, kept their money and said, "Oh my brother died. It's very tragic." And like kept their money and wouldn't send... Really up.
Em Schulz: Geez.
Christine Schiefer: So that was step one. Then his own frat brothers, uh, testified that Chris had led them to believe he was a completely different person. He said he... He had told everybody at school that he was a rich kid who came from a wealthy family in Connecticut. He would often bankroll parties and tell his friends that his family owned a lodge in Vermont and a house in Aruba.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, in the episode, they... They interview the frat guys like multiple times in the episode, and they're so sweet. And there's like this part where they're like, and he... "They said his family," there were two of them, "like they had a house in the Bahamas." "No, it wasn't the Bahamas. What island was it?" And I'm like, it doesn't matter. Anyway.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I imagine they just have like popped collars and like sideways hats.
Christine Schiefer: They did. It was lit. Okay.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: So they were like, "Oh, it was Aruba. It was right, man. Yeah, it was Aruba." So he lied. He said they had a house in Aruba. All of that was bullshit, like he was not even from Connecticut. So he made up basically his whole family history. Uh, in reality he was flunking out of school. Uh.
Christine Schiefer: And he was deeply, deeply in debt, especially 'cause he was bankrolling all these frat parties and pretending he had all this money leading an extravagant lifestyle. Umm, and what's more in the days leading up to the attack, Chris's dad Peter, had actually found out that Chris had forged his signature to obtain a car loan to buy a yellow jeep.
Christine Schiefer: Why would you do that? Okay. So he had forged his dad's signature to obtain a car loan and a $31,000 loan to help pay for school. So Peter, his dad, had sent him a series of angry emails and some of the excerpts include asking what the hell he had done, accusing him of spiraling out of control and saying like, "You've gone too far, you've crossed the line."
Christine Schiefer: Uh, and meanwhile, Joan, so his mother had also written to him, this is days before the attack, telling Chris that his dad was about to have a nervous breakdown over everything that Chris had done to him. And that if he didn't call her, she would drive down to Rochester... Drive left to Rochester. Shit.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Herself, to talk to him. Umm, and I think the most heartbreaking thing is they like had the emails in the episode and then, then they would like pull out the excerpts, but if you pause it, you can kind of read the rest of the email.
Christine Schiefer: And at the end, like they didn't even bring this up, but at the end it said, "I may be disappointed in you, but your mother and I still love you and care about your future. Dad." And so that was like the end of the email. So even though like clearly there was tension and they were fighting, umm, that's just a little bit heartbreaking.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, what's also chilling is that Peter, the dad, had recently mentioned to a coworker literally days before the attack, "I think my son might be a sociopath."
Em Schulz: Interesting. He really said that?
Christine Schiefer: He said that. Yeah, she testified at the trial. She was like, "Yeah, he actually, uh, had really serious concerns about his own son. Like not jokingly, like seriously thought maybe he might be a sociopath."
Em Schulz: Got it.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, so Chris had also, there were like all sorts of things that he pulled. He failed out of several classes earlier that year. He forged transcripts so he could be readmitted to school. Umm. Several emails between him and his mother showed how angry they were with him for failing out of school and then lying to them. And he would always say, "No, it's the registrar's fault. They messed up." And then he would like create forged documents and it, it was very bad.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, so prosecutors present Chris at the trial as broke and desperate. Umm, the motive obviously was his parents' money. So alive they were around... Worth around $60,000, but dead, they would be worth 1.1 million. So they were saying basically his idea was to get the inheritance from their death.
Christine Schiefer: At the trial, which was moved to Orange County for some reason, because apparently in Albany the media coverage was too intense. So they were like, "Where should we go? How about Orange County?" I don't, I don't know.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: That's in California. I don't know if everybody knows that. I assume so. Wasn't that a tv... Okay.
Em Schulz: The OC.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: We're not that old. Or maybe we are that old.
Em Schulz: Maybe.
Christine Schiefer: That's sad. Okay. So the trial was moved to Orange County, umm, because of intense media coverage here in Albany. Joan actually walked into the courtroom with her arm linked around Chris's. She had still severe like scarring and that kind of thing. Umm, she continued to insist throughout the trial that he was innocent.
Christine Schiefer: And more than 80 witnesses actually took the stand, including the paramedics who were there when Joan nodded when they were trying to give her oxygen. And Bowdish was asking, you know, "Do you understand me? Did somebody... Who hurt you?" And they had actually witnessed her nodding and shaking her head. And so they testified, umm, that they had seen her nod when they, when he had asked if Chris had hurt her.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, nine of Chris's fraternity brothers, uh, testified and they all challenged Chris's alibi. They'd all been in the lounge that night and they said, "Sorry bro, we would've seen you, but we didn't."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: But thanks for all the parties, I guess.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: See you in Aruba.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: But, uh, they were so sweet. But anyway, so they, they all testified that no, he had not been in the lounge that night. Uh, Christopher's older brother Jonathan actually also testified and according to the Albany Times Union, Jonathan... Woohoo. Wow.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Five people are very impressed about that. Thank you. It's very impressive. Umm, Jonathan's demeanor toward his brother was icy. He described the relationship as strained and he refused to look at Chris the entire time he was on the stand. Umm, then the defense brought Joan herself to the stand and she explained that she had no memory of the night, but was certain that her son would never have done anything to hurt her or her husband.
Christine Schiefer: Umm. And was, she explained that she was devastated that just because of something she doesn't even remember is the reason that he was on trial. Umm, the nod is what I'm referencing. Uh, in case you forgot. Okay.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Uh, oh my gosh. I don't know. I get really wrapped up in my own head and then I lose my notes. Okay. Umm. On the afternoon of August 10th, 2006, the jury deliberated for only six hours before finding Christopher Porco guilty of second degree... Second degree murder and attempted murder. He was sentenced to 50 years to life on each count, totaling a minimum of 50 years in prison. Uh, he's currently incarcerated at Clinton Correctional Facility in Dannemora, New York. I love that facility.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Best prison I've ever seen.
Christine Schiefer: Best correctional facility.
Christine Schiefer: Super nice.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Uh, cool. Umm, all of his appeals have been rejected and he will not be eligible for parole until December, 2052. Uh, so he's in there. For now. To this day the jurors still maintain that Joan's nod was not what convinced them of Chris's guilt. And they even said like when they got to the room to deliberate, they basically said, "We are nixing that from our thought process. Like we don't want that to be the... " Since she doesn't remember it and it could be that... Her own neurologist testified and was like, it could be that she was just responding to cues, whatever.
Christine Schiefer: So they nixed that whole thing. Umm, so they actually have publicly stated, the jurors, that they want Joan to know that it was not her nod that sent her son to jail, that it was Chris who got himself there. And that is the story of Christopher Porco.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: Thank you Albany. That one was a fucking trip and a half. What the fuck?
Em Schulz: Good job.
Christine Schiefer: Good job to you.
Em Schulz: Thank you. Thank you.
Christine Schiefer: We did it.
Em Schulz: This is what we do... This is what we do in the, uh, in our hotel room afterwards. Like, "You did good. You did good." No, no, no. You, you did good."
Christine Schiefer: "Are you sure I did good? Are you sure?"
Em Schulz: But the truth is we were both gonna blackout after this and not... We're like...
[overlapping conversation]
Em Schulz: "Were we okay?"
Christine Schiefer: "Eva, what happened?" [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Truly... "Eva, did we even go on stage? I don't even remember."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It was all a fever dream.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Umm, thank you guys for having us. It was fun.
Christine Schiefer: Thank you, Albany. We've had a blast.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: You have a beautiful town, by the way. I didn't say that. But we were driving around and it's beautiful here.
Em Schulz: The second we got here, we were like, "Yeah, this fucking rocks."
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: We really, really like this area.
Christine Schiefer: To be fair, we've been in New York for the last four days and we showed up here and we were like, "We can breathe. Oh my God."
Em Schulz: "Clean air. It's not crowded."
Christine Schiefer: Beautiful.
Em Schulz: Umm, thank you for having us. Also please text Allison's family and tell them I'm funny. Umm.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Thank you, Albany.
Em Schulz: Thank you guys so much.
[music]