[intro music]
Christine: Hi.
Em: Hi. Welcome everybody to uh...
Christine: How was, how was your birthday?
Em: To our birthday recap. Uh, it was, uh.
Christine: You thought it was over, but it's still June and it will be for a long time.
Em: It's like people know, either know or they don't know. And they're trapped. [laughter]
Christine: They're about to find out. [laughter]
Em: Uh let's talk about our birthdays. Christine. Oh my God.
Christine: Tell me everything 'cause I know you're not gonna be able to top mine, so I feel like you should start.
Em: Oh.
Christine: Yeah. And then I'll finale on top of yours. You know what I mean? Like you...
Em: What the hell does that mean? Okay, Ms. Braggy.
Christine: You build, you build it up.
Em: Okay.
Christine: You tell your tales.
Em: Yeah. I'll...
Christine: I saw magical photos, but only like glimpses.
Em: I'll, I'll softball it to you.
Christine: Okay.
Em: I'll, I'll do a, I'll do a soft launch and then you do, apparently you will announce whatever the hell's going on, on your end for your birthday. Okay.
Christine: Oh, I will.
Em: So, um, whoo. Okay. We've been doing a lot. Allison really nailed it this year. Um, she, uh, I don't know, are you aware of Club 33?
Christine: No.
Em: Okay.
Christine: Anything with the word club in it? Unless it's, um, Club Penguin, I'm not really familiar with most.
Em: So it's a, if you're a Disney person, it's a very, very big deal, apparently.
Christine: Oh, I've heard of that, yes, yes, yes. The Disney thing. Yes, I know about that.
Em: Yes. So for those who don't know, Club 33 is like on the Disney lot, my understanding of it, if you're like a Disney adult with all the facts, I don't have them. So I'm so sorry if I'm gonna butcher this information to you, but to the layman, [laughter], you and I, Christine.
Christine: Yes, me.
Em: Uh, the, the story goes that there, there's this, um, on one of the streets in Disneyland, there's uh this building that almost looks like it's part of the set of like the facades, like the fake doors. And you wouldn't think there was anything real behind it, but there's.
Christine: Oh, a secret door.
Em: It's actually a secret, a secret door that leads to a secret like private club.
Christine: Oh, wow. This was meant for Em.
Em: Or lounge. And, but it's like incredibly, like the, the rumors around are that it's this top tier exclusive space. You can only get in if you know a guy, who knows a guy, who knows a guy. And the only people who actually have access to this, there's like a 20 year wait list. It's like $30,000 or something to even join.
Christine: What?
Em: It's like very eat the rich. So I never had it...
Christine: Is this in, at Anaheim as well as Florida or just Florida or...
Em: It's in both of them.
Christine: Okay. Okay.
Em: To my knowledge.
Christine: Allegedly.
Em: Uh, but, um, I guess the, for people who want maybe more of the fun history on that, it was, uh, a place that Walt Disney was creating so that way he, I guess never had to fucking leave Disney. He would just have his own restaurant and private lounge right next to his own little apartment, or it was built alongside his apartment. I think they're right next to each other. Um, and then he ends up dying before he ever got to go there. But anyway, so it's now this like big super swanky thing that like, it was never even on my list of things, uh, I would achieve of going to, because we all know I love my secret clubs and my secret societies, and I have to be in on the in.
Christine: I was like you are like in the odd fellows, but you're not in Club 33.
[laughter]
Em: Well, I, I, you, me, nobody we know will ever, uh, be able to afford access to this place.
Christine: Not with that attitude. Uh, let's, now I wanna do it. I've never even heard of it. I don't care about Disney. But now I'm like, you told me I can't, here I come.
Em: Give Christine a year. She'll be in club 33, she'll be the president. Um, or she'll at least know the blood types of every member there.
[laughter]
Christine: I know. I'll get to a point where I'll be like, I have all this information, and then you'll go, now what? And I'll go, [laughter], oh, and then the crashing feeling that I always have after these rabbit holes, which is, okay, but now what do I do with this information? And then I just feel depressed. So yeah, it'll be fun for a minute.
Em: The only time, the first time I ever heard about it, which I think it was the first time a few people in in our age range heard about it, was like Selena Gomez like announced that she was part of it. And I think [laughter] my understanding of this story is that like, nobody knew about it until Selena Gomez like outed them. It was like, oh yeah, I'm part of this like...
Christine: Smooth.
Em: This exclusive thing. So, and then all of a sudden it became to friends of mine, it became this thing of like, oh my God, all these celebrities are part of the thing. So anyway, Allison got me in.
Christine: Yay.
Em: Her and her wiles. She figured it out. And um, she is somehow highly connected to someone who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy.
Christine: Seriously?
Em: And uh, so we got invited to go to have like a dinner there where there's, um, if you go, there's still a private section, which I think is where all the like Illuminati shit happens, probably. But then there's...
Christine: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Where they eat the rich.
Em: They eat like, I don't know.
Christine: Themselves.
Em: Yeah. They eat themselves. I don't know. They just eat dollar bills.
Christine: Mm-Hmm. Yum!
Em: But, uh, there's a half of it is for guests who get invited who are not actually members. And we got to do that, which was very fun. So.
Christine: Oh, cool, you get like a special glimpse into the, the finer things in life.
Em: Yeah. I had no idea 'cause Allison, okay, by the way, horribly pitched did not pitch this well because she didn't know how to say it without like blowing the surprise. She didn't tell me we were going to Disney, which we're not Disney like people. So we've actually never been to Disney, so.
Christine: Right.
Em: It was, I didn't even, I had been once years ago. It's never on my radar to go to Disney, even though we live so close.
Christine: It's kind of far.
Em: Alison's never been. And so we were driving towards Anaheim and I was like, I wonder what the hell's out here. I was like, Knott's Berry Farm is out here. I was like, I don't know where we're going.
Christine: So you were in for a surprise here?
Em: Yeah, I had no clue.
Christine: I see.
Em: But the way she pitched it the day before was, I need you to wear fancy clothes and we're going to be walking all day. And I went, oh, why the fuck, why? This sounds like the worst birthday of my life.
Christine: Sounds like hell.
Em: Where are we going? Um, now it makes sense. So that was very fun. And then, umm, on the way back, she, we went to medieval times, um, [laughter], which is another thing that I did not foresee for my birthday, but we've driven past it.
Christine: No but fun.
Em: We've driven past it a million times. I've always been like, what the hell is this Medieval times thing? What the hell is this Medieval times so.
Christine: You ever went before?
Em: No, I never, I don't even, I didn't know anything about it. I just always thought.
Christine: Oh, it's a big deal.
Em: You have to, we pass it on the way to Halloween stuff. So at least once a year we have a conversation about medieval times and I'm like, I know nothing about that place, but that looks really fun. It looks like a big old castle.
Christine: Mm-Hmm.
Em: So day one we did uh The Club 33, day two, we did medieval times. And then, umm, and then she planned like a whole like, dinner with all my friends.
Christine: How fun. Where was the dinner?
Em: Uh, it was at, uh, one of my favorite restaurants in NoHo because they have a list. It's like, it's called a Kahuna Tiki. It's uh, they have.
Christine: Oh yeah, I've heard of it through you.
Em: They have a menu full of mocktails that are not cups of lime juice.
Christine: I did, I did... And bitters, I did see a picture Eva posted, or somebody, or you did, or somebody posted, like, umm, of all the drinks that you were drinking, there was like a dozen in front of you. I was so impressed.
Em: There were 16 because...
Christine: If you were a drinker... 16, if you were a drinker man, you would've knocked everyone under the table, drank 'em all under the table.
Em: Well the whole reason we went was because I had always told Allison that I was always so jealous of everyone who has like that story from college where they racked up this huge bill and they had one of everything, or something...
Christine: Shouldn't be jealous. But, but yes, I understand.
Em: And I was like, I always wanted to do that. The only place I could do that is Kahuna Tiki 'cause they actually have a list of mocktails that don't sound miserable. And so Allison like created this game, which actually I highly suggest to anybody who has a friend group of separate friends and you don't know how to make them mingle.
Christine: Tell me, tell me.
Em: She, she got one of every drink and Eva came, Eva sat next to me, so, uh, she got to witness it in real time. I got to witness Eva, try all 16 drinks and order other alcoholic ones for herself.
Christine: Yes.
Em: So she had a great time. She had like 20 drinks. Umm, technically. Umm, but uh, so Allison got one of each, and then we would pass each of the drinks around and everyone would like take their straw and like, taste some of it. Oh. We did a taste test to see what like, the best one was. But, so it gave everyone a chance to be like, oh, I don't like this one.
Christine: But you could do like a, umm like a, a bracket. Like which ones are the best?
Em: Yeah.
Christine: What was the best one?
Em: That's what ended up happening. The one that is already my favorite. I never had to try any of the others apparently. Umm, so it's called, Uh, the Pink Pussycat. I'm obsessed with her.
Christine: Ooh.
Em: Uh, and it's some sort of play off of a pina colada. Uh...
Christine: I was gonna say, let me guess. Coco-nutty.
Em: Yummy.
Christine: Yum.
Em: It's very coco nutty pineapply strawberry. Yeah, but delicious.
Christine: That sounds delightful. Very tiki.
Em: Anyway, that was my birthday and then I got a bunch of...
Christine: And now your mom's in town.
Em: My, my mom, she loves to make an appearance. Umm, right when the dust settles she says, ha, haha, I've risen. So, uh, so here she comes. She is showing up sometime today and what she doesn't know is that she thinks she's coming to celebrate my birthday, but uh I didn't get to be with her for her birthday or Mother's Day and I'm not gonna be with Tom for Father's Day. So we're celebrating them, where each day we're gonna celebrate one of those instead so.
Christine: Wait, is Tom coming too?
Em: He always... Wherever my mother follows he follows.
Christine: Oh, I see. So you're gonna do Father's Day too and Mother's Day and her birthday. How fun is that?
Em: Yeah. So she's, umm, she's coming to see the house, but we're gonna surprise her.
Christine: And let's make a deal also, another let's make a deal roundup. Need me to fly out in my slip.
Em: No, I've seen enough of your skin. Thank you.
Christine: The World...
Em: I don't...
Christine: Has seen enough. You are totally right. Thank you. It's about time we say it out loud.
Em: Especially almost televised. That was crazy.
Christine: Yeah. Umm, yeah you made sure we were not on television, my friend. You sat way in the back in a fully innocuous t-shirt, probably branded so that it would never get on TV on purpose.
Em: You know, things would be different today. Uh, but back then I was definitely too scared, so, uh.
Christine: My God. You were like, I didn't know you were scared. You made it seem like you were just like, ugh, way over this. And I was like, whoa, you're too cool for me. This was like early in our friendship. I thought you were like, too uh, I thought you were like, oh, I've done, been there, done that. That's what I thought you were kind of the vibe.
Em: Oh, well thank you. No, I was just, I just didn't have a propanolol prescription yet 'cause you hadn't suggested it to me.
Christine: Well, shit, I probably had some in that big purse. They make you dump out and look through all the...
[laughter]
Em: Uh, anyway, and then it was topped off with lovely presents, including two dozen chocolate covered strawberries. Not even from past Em, but from past Christine.
Christine: Yeah.
Em: It worked out very well. So that was my birthday.
Christine: Well, I felt bad... Well I felt bad because I had big plans to, umm, like look, so I'd been researching a bunch of places in Burbank and LA area that do chocolate covered strawberries. And I probably reached out to like 15 to 20 places. Either they like didn't look that good or they were like, too fancy for you. Like they had weird shit like truffle shit all over them. And I was like.
Em: I respect that.
Christine: That's not the vibe.
Em: Thank you.
Christine: And so after all that, I just went to, to the classic edible arrangements and I was like, I hope Em doesn't think I'm phoning it in. I really did like try to find all...
Em: I appreciate... They're already gone, girl. It was two days ago...
Christine: Oh good okay, and I felt bad because I was like, this doesn't seem like very surprising. But, umm, you know, I figured I'd go with a classic so.
Em: I appreciate it. They, they were eaten for breakfast, lunch and dinner. And then, umm, the only other thing I've eaten since is Allison tried to make me like my mom's recipe from my childhood of chicken pot pie. But I realized as an adult my stomach does not like it. So.
Christine: Oh oh.
Em: Umm, the chocolate covered strawberries have been healing me. Let's put it that way.
Christine: Phew. That's what they're there for. That's what they're for.
Em: How was your birthday?
Christine: Umm, well, you know, it was pretty depressing because it's so funny I heard from so many people in my life, but I weirdly didn't hear from you Em.
Em: That can't be right.
Christine: I've been, I literally was counting down the minutes till midnight. I was like, you have no idea how much I'm gonna make a scene on the podcast.
Em: Let me see. Did I, I could have sworn I texted you. No.
Christine: You said, Uh, bloop.
Em: Oh, I texted you just nothing about your birthday. Oh my God. That's so embarrassing.
Christine: Haha.
Em: Oh my God.
Christine: Haha.
Em: Oh my God.
Christine: I win.
Em: I'm reading, I'm reading through the text right now.
Christine: I win the friendship. Woo hoo. I never win the friendship.
Em: Okay. But you, okay but uh here's the thing. You texted me but got me strawberries. I did not text you, but I sent you like six packages. Did they all get there?
Christine: I don't know. Eva also... Or somebody else? Maggie just asked if I got her package. I'm like, I don't think so. I didn't really get any mail.
Em: Oh, I sent them.
Christine: I got mail from you and it was like, I thought it was a birthday thing and then it was like a trophy from the Davy Awards or something. And I was like, oh, that's not it.
Em: Oh. You didn't get any packages from me? 'Cause some of them were perishable.
Christine: Okay. Umm, no, but I'll, I will have Blaise take a peek. Are you serious?
Em: Christine, I sent you, I sent you, uh, a dozen bagels and lox from New York.
Christine: What?
Em: And that and like many other things, but that one...
Christine: Are you sure they got delivered? Did it say it got delivered?
Em: Yes. Yes.
Christine: Oh boy. Oh.
Em: There's, oh boy. I thought you were gonna say you had the best birthday. 'Cause I got you bagels and lox from New York. Well, motherfucker, okay.
Christine: I'm gonna cry because that would be the best. Obviously Incidentally Blaise did get me bagels and lox for breakfast, but that was just one day.
Em: See I knew you'd...
Christine: You did know.
[laughter]
Christine: Umm, anyway, that was my only...
Em: It says it got there. Oh! Boy.
Christine: Oh-oh.
Em: Someone, someone's eaten good today.
Christine: A Raccoon. I don't know. I'm sorry. Em, I didn't, I did not, I did not. That did not arrive. Umm.
Em: Oh no.
Christine: And I know because I got two packages that I had ordered for myself yesterday, so I was like eyeing the porch all day. Umm.
Em: Your order, it's your address. It says it got there. Oh boy.
Christine: Wonder, I wonder if they like put it behind a bush or something.
Em: I don't know. Well, tell Blaise to go looking around the perimeter of your home.
Christine: Oh, I'm sure if he finds three dozen cats mewing behind a bush.
[overlapping conversation]
Christine: Em I'm sorry. That sounds expensive. I'm sorry. I didn't know that that was coming. I was just teasing you.
Em: No, you're, well hey, now I, now let's, let's, I don't know how to call it even, 'cause now apparently I haven't texted you or sent you presents. Jesus Christ.
Christine: This is like, well, you... Well you did. I believe you. I just, umm, they better give you your money back. I'll, I'll look around my house, but I, I was pretty actively watching the porch yesterday. Umm.
Em: Oh no. Okay. Yeah. We'll, we'll, we'll, we'll figure that out later. Okay. Anyway, tell me about the rest of your birthday.
Christine: Okay well, so after I didn't hear from my best friend Em all day and just waited around by the porch and the phone, nothing happened. Umm, then I had a quick doctor's appointment for this weird rash and they had, umm, scheduled me the day they, I just said, oh, are, do you have any availability in the next few weeks? And they said, how about June 4th at 3:00 PM? And I went, well, fine. Sure.
Em: Yippy.
Christine: Yippy. So I went in and they were like, oh, you got a rash for your birthday? I was like, ha ha ha. Yeah. Umm, and then after the appointment they were like, okay, we'll get you, umm, some prescriptions to like, see if this goes away, what have you. And then, uh, the nurse comes in and goes, okay, we're gonna give you a steroid shot so that this like...
Em: Oh boy.
Christine: Tones down, you know, the inflammation and hopefully this will like, kind of get your body back on a good baseline. And I said, okay. And she goes, so we're gonna do it. Umm, here, let me show you. I have proof.
Em: Oh, is it of? Yeah. I wanna see.
Christine: Yeah. I got a shot right in my ass.
Em: Are we, is that, is today the day? Oh! My god.
Christine: I got a shot in my fucking butt for my birthday.
Em: Everyone tune into YouTube. We're about to have the best views we ever have in our life. Yeah. That was literally your butt. Wow. Okay. Happy birthday to all of us.
Christine: I got a shot in the butt and she goes, this is not even the worst. I have a needle phobia. We know this. It's my birthday.
Em: Did it, did it, did it hurt as much as you thought it would? 'Cause I've never had a shot in the butt and I feel like I would tense up and thus it would be awful.
Christine: It fucking hurt.
Em: Yeah. Okay.
Christine: So she goes, this is gonna hurt. And I go, you're not supposed to say that. I think.
Em: Oh, that's like the tetanus shot. They don't even try to even sugar coat it.
Christine: Don't even try to hide it. So it didn't actually hurt when she did it. I was afraid it was gonna hurt, like as she gave the shot. But it's intense. Okay. All also fun fact, I thought I would be cute and wear like a full romper. I had to get fucking naked.
Em: You're so stupid.
Christine: I know. I'm like, I trying to figure out a way to access my butt hole from with a romper on. And then she's like, listen, it's fine. Just take your clothes off. So I had to like drop my fucking outfit and I'm just sitting there.
Em: They have to be used to that by now. They have to be used to it.
Christine: Naked. Yeah. She did not care. But I was like, this is quite a day. Umm, and then she's like, now lean on one leg and then the other one's gonna go back and then I'm gonna, she's like, do you want me to say go or do you? And I was like, can you just do it?
Em: I hate this person. Oh my God.
Christine: It was horrible. So I was like, I can just do it. So she did it and I was like, okay, that wasn't so bad. And then I like stepped back and I was like, ah, my ass. Anyway.
Em: Is it, oh my god, I...
Christine: It just like really stung. It's, I think it's just 'cause it's a steroid. It like, I don't know. And then she goes, oh, and pro, it'll make you really hungry, but at least that means you can eat more birthday cake. I was like, yeah...
Em: Thanks girl.
Christine: I'm really craving a lox bagel, but I guess that's not in the cards for me today. And then, umm... No, I'm just teasing you Em. I'm so sorry. I feel terrible about that. If I, I wish.
Em: It's somewhere.
Christine: You know Maggie, Maggie texted me. Did you get a package from me? I said no. So I don't know what is happening.
Em: I think you've got a true thief because I'm not.
Christine: They're getting the good stuff.
Em: I mean, I'm like kind of panicking. I sent you a lot of presents.
Christine: Are you serious?
Em: Umm, yeah. I, yeah, I don't...
Christine: I'm texting Blaise right now.
Em: Oh no.
Christine: I'm texting him because like Maggie, I didn't get Maggie's, I didn't get anyone's. Maybe they're all delayed. No, you said it got delivered.
Em: Yeah, it got delivered. I mean, it's gone now. I, there's no way...
Christine: The wildest part...
Em: It's just still sitting...
Christine: Is I got my new book about working on your shadow self. That's what I, that's what arrived for me on my birthday that I ordered for myself. But that's it.
Em: Yeah. My my biggest present, I, uh, I bought myself. So I.
Christine: Isn't that the best way to be? I mean that's, then you don't just get to disappointed, you know, you're like, well, I made me happy.
Em: I will say, I don't even wanna know how much Allison spent to get us into Club 33 or, or to Disney at all. But, umm.
Christine: I do, text me Al.
Em: Okay.
Christine: I'm so curious. I wanna know all about the secret society.
Em: I mean, I, I will tell you, umm, and for anyone who is a Disney person who, you know, doesn't, won't get the chance and wants to know what it's like, I will tell you it's a four-course meal. The, I guess the menu switches out a lot. So, you know, take this for what it is. It might, if you ever got in the menu might be different. The first two like courses, not worth it, at all.
Christine: Really?
Em: But the two, but the last two courses worth it, for sure.
Christine: Intriguing. What were the first two?
Em: You know, the menu was too fancy. So maybe if you've got a different palate than me. Maybe if you're Eva or Christine, it might be great.
Christine: Yeah. I was gonna say, I probably would've just eaten all yours.
Em: It was like things I've never had before. It was like caviar and like...
Christine: Yummy.
Em: Like things that I don't even know if I'd like...
Christine: That sounds dope.
Em: So it was very intimidating. Really was. Well, okay, so then they had, Palate, it was like there was a beef tartare option. There was a... Umm...
Christine: So they're really like leaning into the fancy, like they're like, what you think is fancy...
Em: It was very fancy.
Christine: That's what we've got.
Em: Yeah. And it wasn't even... Umm, I, in my mind, if you have a secret private lounge in the middle of Disneyland, like on one of the main streets overlooking all of Disney, I would think this restaurant was gonna be out the wazoo Disney themed. Like they were at least, at least gonna name the dishes after Disney things. Or you look around and it's gonna be in gonna Disney.
Christine: They probably already do that enough. So this is like, oh, this is.
Em: A, a getaway.
Christine: The Pocket. Yeah. The out say... Right, the getaway from all the Disney names and, and tchotchkes. And they're probably like, oh, we're not quirky here. We're very fancy.
Em: Yeah. But that was kind of, I wanted, I feel like if you're in Disney and you finally get access to this main club...
Christine: Oh for sure.
Em: You want the whimsy somewhere.
Christine: And you're all about a theme.
Em: Or at the least you know what you want but Disney always promises you is fucking magic. You know, so like.
Christine: I mean that caviar, I would've been like, Ooh, magic, bring it on.
Em: The food was great, but I will say the decor. You, if you didn't know you were in Disney, you... It, it, it looks nothing like Disney.
Christine: Really? So they know how to, they know how to make it?
Em: It looked just like a, like a fancy restaurant, which like...
Christine: Sounds crazy.
Em: I guess is, it was, I don't know what I was expecting, 'cause I never prepared for this day.
[chuckle]
Em: But I, I thought there'd at least be like a, even like those, you know, hidden Mickeys like the, the Mickey Mouse symbol everywhere.
Christine: Uh-huh.
Em: Nothing. It just looked like a restaurant.
Christine: Wow.
Em: And I was like, huh, I feel like we could have zhuzhed this up. Umm, I think I need to come in and help you decor wise.
[chuckle]
Christine: Yeah, they need a little rebrand.
Em: But I will say they had, some of the furniture, they had like stories to each of the items. So I, it, it looks like a fancy restaurant, but apparently if you talk to...
Christine: It has like more...
Em: A person, they can tell you this painting was made by someone, someone, someone. This table...
Christine: Oh I see.
Em: Was in this movie, which is like, that's pretty cool.
Christine: That's kind of cool.
Em: But you wouldn't know if you didn't ask, so.
Christine: Oh, I see.
Em: Umm, but they do have a signature drink where you get to take home the cup. That's what we did. That was very nice.
Christine: Oh, that sounds nice.
Em: And I, and I got a pen like, 'cause Disney's all about their pens.
Christine: They are.
Em: And you, they have like an exclusive club 33 pen, so.
Christine: Wow. Okay. That's pretty cool. Now you can just brag about that.
Em: Yeah, I've got the pen, which by the way, it was $33. I did tell Allison, the only...
Christine: $33?
Em: Well, for club 33. But I will say the only, and by the way, that was beyond the cheapest thing. There was things in there for like, there was things in their merch cabinet for like 500 bucks. It was crazy. It was, it's, yeah, eat the rich. Umm, but, uh, what was I gonna say? What was I gonna say? Oh, the only disappointing thing, which I have told Allison, the only way she failed is that she should have waited till next year when I was turning 33.
Christine: Yeah. I was actually wondering that.
[laughter]
Em: Yeah.
Christine: But that's funny.
Em: Anyway...
Christine: You are entering your 33rd year.
Em: That is how she pitched it to me as well.
Christine: Oh, that's actually, I'm kind of with her because I feel like it's kind of cool that you've finished 32. It just means you've already accomplished 32.
Em: Oh.
Christine: This is the kickoff to 33. So you're like starting off hot at the coolest place in Anaheim.
[laughter]
Em: And then 24 hours later we were in Medieval Times where the floor was dirt.
[laughter]
Christine: Yeah. I mean, come on. You were just going up and up and up in the world. Uh.
Em: Uh, I will tell you, club three or, uh, the Medieval Times was crazy. I was, we were, there were a few times we both looked at each other like, Ooh, maybe this place isn't for us. Because like, I just, I questioned the ethics of the horse training, but, umm...
Christine: Oh it's, yeah, it's, uh, it's definitely a '90s thing. I'm always surprised that it still exists. I mean, it was big in the '90s.
Em: Uh, trying to skew and block that from my vision.
Christine: Hmm.
Em: The rest of Medieval Times was great. I got to eat with my hands like a real Knight. I wore...
Christine: Like, I was gonna say like a real human. Yeah.
Em: Like, [chuckle] I wore, umm, a, a Jedi robe...
Christine: What team were you on?
Em: Which looks kind of friar-ish. Umm, I was Team yellow.
Christine: Cool. That's Leona's favorite color. Umm...
Em: Great.
Christine: I, uh, Blaise or Alexander went to Medieval Times with his two friends in Las Vegas. They got really high and went to Medieval Times. [chuckle.
Em: Hmm.
Christine: And hearing them tell that story. [chuckle]
Em: That sounds great.
Christine: Oh. They had a great time. Yes. They had a very good time.
[laughter]
Em: Umm, our Knight threw a rose to Allison.
Christine: Ooh. Hello.
Em: Ooh.
Christine: Were you jealous? [chuckle]
Em: I went, you go girl. That's right.
Christine: Yeah. [laughter]
Em: And then I... [chuckle] And then I looked at the...
Christine: Hi, you have like a beef roast in your hands. Like, yeah, get it girl.
Em: She wanted nothing to do with me. Literally, this is how disgusting I was at Medieval Times. 'Cause I didn't have, uh, napkins or, or like silverware to use, is that at one time Allison just reached over and put a napkin to my face and just wiped my face for a minute.
[laughter]
Christine: Like a toddler, like...
Em: I was like, how bad does it look for you to have done that?
Christine: Did she like spit on her napkin and rub your face?
[laughter]
Em: Well they had corn on the cobb. I was just like, my face was getting shoved in the food, you know?
Christine: Oh, yeah. It's hard to eat daintily, uh, in that scenario.
Em: How long did it take for the shot to heal for you?
Christine: I mean, it was fine right away. It like was sore, but I was like, it's, you know, get over it. It's fine Christine. So I got over it, but, umm, oh, Blaise just went around the entire perimeter of the house says there are no packages here. Umm, nothing has arrived and nothing was stolen 'cause I watched the doorbell camera, so I don't know where it went.
Em: I know your address. I didn't fuck this up.
Christine: I know. Yeah. I don't know.
Em: I know.
Christine: No. I mean, maybe I need to ask my neighbors if it got dropped off at the wrong spot.
Em: They're not gonna tell you. This is like that Friends episode with the cheesecake. Like they're just gonna see...
Christine: Fuck, they're gonna have like, like scallion.
[chuckle]
Christine: Like cream cheese on their face.
[laughter]
Em: I literally got you extra lox. I was like...
Christine: I'm sorry, Em, that sounds so f-ing expensive.
Em: Man.
Christine: Okay, I will, uh...
Em: It was not, it was not as well as you thought, but I thought I looked up the best place.
Christine: You are so sweet.
Em: I was like, where in New York is best known for like bagels and lox and then they happened to be on GoldBelly. Shout out GoldBelly.
Christine: Yep.
Em: And it was supposed to get there exactly, it said it will get here June 4th.
Christine: Oh. Man. I'm sorry.
Em: But I went, Great.
Christine: Here's Blaise walking around like with no clo, shirt on. Looking for it in the bushes for a packet of bagels. Umm, and I, I also wanna add real quick that like, it would... I had like a really wonderful birthday. I, I just wanted to tell you about my shot in the butt 'cause that was so funny.
Em: I appreciate it.
Christine: That was the funniest part. But, umm, Blaise was sick, but he did wake up with Leona and took her the entire day, did everything. Which like he usually does anyway, but, [chuckle] uh, like, you know, just kind of was like, you just chill. You're not allowed to do anything. You're not allowed to go outside or, I mean, I was...
Em: You just vibed?
Christine: Go outside, but you know, just vibed. Umm, and it was really fun. And then, umm, Leona came home and they went to get cupcakes and she picked the cupcakes for me. Umm...
Em: Ooh.
Christine: I'll show you them. I wonder if you can see what they are. Blaise was like, she had to be sure to tell me that she picked them. Umm...
Em: Oh, they're graduation cupcakes.
Christine: They are graduation cupcakes, 'cause she liked the little hats. So we got some...
Em: You, you graduated from 32. Or 33...
Christine: That's right. 33 or...
Em: Okay. Well.
Christine: And then just like she did for you, she sang me Happy Birthday on her new microphone, which was very exciting.
Em: Lovely.
Christine: Umm, and then they ordered sushi, a bunch of sushi for me, which is my favorite food. And then watched the Emperor's New Groove, which is my favorite movie. And, uh, it's been a double present because Leona woke up this morning and can we set, and said, can we watch that movie again? It's my favorite.
Em: Ooh.
Christine: And I went, yes. Uh...
Em: Welcome to the Dark Side, Leona.
Christine: I know. And they got me a stuffed crocodile from the Newport Aquarium and, uh, they got me a book I wanted and some kitchen stuff. Yeah. It was really cute. It was like very low key. But again, Blaise was sick and I also very adamantly said, I don't wanna do anything this year. Like big, like last year I did like a party at a bowling alley and I was like, I don't wanna, I'm just tired. Like I don't wanna do that. And my mom was trapped in Europe 'cause her passport got stolen. She was supposed to watch Leona so that he and I could go get sushi and have like a dinner out. But umm, you know?
Em: Whoops.
Christine: She was not here so we just had sushi and watched the Emperor's New Groove. So it was very perfect. Umm... Very chill, very low key. Uh, and then I got a shot in my butt and I thought, wow. This is 33. Four? 33.
Em: I'm 32 now, so please don't be 34. I don't know.
Christine: Okay. Uh, I'll stick with 33. It's a nice little, like double number.
Em: Okay. Umm fun fact. Now I can say it. We have, I guess maybe add a couple months to this, but I met you when I was 22 and you were 23 and now we're 32 and 33.
Christine: Oh my God. A decade. Remember how I'm always like, I've known Allison for 10 years. That means I've probably known her for fucking 20.
[laughter]
Em: Yeah.
Christine: Holy shit.
Em: I'm slowly creeping into the majority of your life.
Christine: Ditto. Likewise.
Em: It'll hurt most when, umm I turn 34 and you turn 35 and then the podcast is 10 years old. That'll really rattle me. That'll rattle me.
Christine: That'll be tough. We're gonna need to go, umm into another exclusive club for that day just to...
Em: Okay.
Christine: Try and hide...
Em: Allison you have two years.
[laughter]
Christine: Alison, find another, uh, cool connection somewhere exclusive.
[laughter]
Em: Oh, well, did everyone like our, I feel like I talked for most of that. Oh, and I didn't ask you what is your, what was your favorite gift that you got? What did you get yourself? What did you...
Christine: Oh, I got my, myself a Shadow work journal.
[laughter]
Em: Oh, the Shadow Work Journal.
Christine: No, I got, I got umm a bunch of like, fun little tarot stuff and, umm I don't really, there was, Leona made me a lot of artwork and a nice card. And then Blaise said, what do you wanna write in the card? And the card said, uh, I love her. She's my mommy. And I love her because I love her. Happy birthday because I love her. And so that was in the card, so that was nice. Umm...
Em: That's so sweet.
Christine: Yeah, it was just really like chill. I didn't, I'm trying to think. Oh, my mom got me this huge tomato plant. I don't know, I'm old now. Like I get plants. My sister bought me this big gift basket that she surprised me with, with like coffees and candy and German candy 'cause she went to Germany. And, umm my own little, my new little red plant that I'm gonna take special care of, even though Juniper already bit it six times. Umm but yeah, it was really like chill.
Em: I will say, umm Eva got, uh, me and Allison a house blessing from a witch, so.
Christine: Oh my God. I was gonna look into that. I'm so glad Eva did it because I was like, I don't know enough about the uh. Like, I don't know. I'm glad Eva did it 'cause I was like, she would know better than I do, who to reach out to. But.
Em: Eva, can I tell Christine what you got me on on air?
[laughter]
Christine: Oh yeah. It uh... Listen...
Em: I'm really contemplating if I should do it or not.
Christine: Nah I'd rather not. I'd rather never hear about it again. I'm gonna mute you while you do that. I'm actually, I'm gonna get tissues.
Em: Okay. Eva says yes. Umm so I don't know how this came to be, but in my, in my personality, we, it's become this.
Eva: It was you. It was all you.
Em: It's my fault. It's, it's become this running jokes.
Christine: Don't say I don't know how it's came to be. You've just traumatized us all.
Em: Well, I don't know how it came to be though. I know that I'm responsible, but I don't know the origin to it.
Christine: Okay. As long as you know, it was your doing.
Em: Umm but there's a running joke about the, like that meme with like the toes, holding toes. And then it got to a point...
Christine: Like intertwined.
Em: Intertwined, yeah. And I then I constantly say like, Christine, when are we going to be close enough? When are you gonna love me enough that we do that? Because other people are reaching a level of intimacy we've, we've never seen between the two of us. We need to hold toes.
Christine: I've been holding out.
Em: It became this running joke, blah, blah, blah, blah. Umm she still won't do it. That's crazy with me. But, Umm so Eva comes to my birthday party, comes to my birthday dinner and she goes, I have a gift for you. And then it, I reach my hand to this bag. There are multiple Polaroids of her and her partner's toes interlaced.
Christine: Sick.
Em: And I was like, this.
Christine: The fact that their Polaroids really makes them like that much more sinister and underground and they should go to jail.
Em: The fir... By the way, like, sounds like a like intense HR violation of a picture of toes from Eva.
Christine: And really, oh, by the way, that's the other text I got from Em on my birthday. It was actually the first text I woke up and I saw Em, sent me mu a bunch of texts and I thought, oh, Em wrote me my first birthday. My first birthday greeting. And I opened it and it was a bunch of pictures.
Em: It was the pictures of Eva's toes.
Christine: Pictures of Eva's and Rachel's toes. And I was like, I think this is illegal. First of all, happy birthday to me. Thank you for sending that at three in the morning laughter. I thought, oh yay, my first birthday wish. And it's from my special friend Em. Uh, nope. And then, uh, Eva says to make sure to say it was Ray's idea, but I feel like that doesn't matter. 'cause you still, like, it was also Em's idea.
Em: You are complicit. You are complicit.
Christine: But if I did it with Em I would still be like fully responsible and should be in prison. So hence why I don't do it. And now Eva's like, oh, I didn't do it. Yeah, you literally are the only reason it happened 'cause somebody else had to do.
Em: It was, uh, I mean it was, you know, I gotta say for commitment, no one committed to the bit for my birthday quite like Eva did.
Christine: No. No, no.
Em: I mean those pictures. But I sent, I sent them to Christine immediately. I was like, look what happened. And then I think.
Christine: Look what happened. I, it took me so long to figure it out, 'cause again, it was the first thing, 7:30 in the morning. I'm like, oh, my first birthday message. I'm like zooming in, like what am I looking at? God dammit.
Em: But I did say if we had an HR department, it would be in shambles.
Christine: On fire.
Em: Because that is, that was crazy.
Christine: That was crazy.
Em: It was, but it was easily the funniest thing 'cause that has been like this stupid point of conversation that I insert everywhere. It was, I mean, well done Eva. You really...
Christine: Is it like over now though?
Em: You know, I don't wanna find out what else can happen. So yeah, I think it's over.
Christine: It's over? So Eva just that...
Em: I don't know, let's...
[overlapping conversation]
Christine: It feels like it just kind of went out like fizzled out. Like.
Em: It's, I, you know...
Christine: Is the magic still there or is the magic gone now Em?
Em: No, the magic's there. I I I just want this with you. I don't know why you...
Christine: With me? No.
Em: I only because you hate it so much. If you fought it, you know, I don't know how I'd feel. I would be like, ah, you took the sail, the wind outta my sail. But.
Christine: If I fought it or if I didn't fight it, you mean [laughter]?
Em: Hmm. Oh, right. I don't, if you didn't fight it.
Christine: If I didn't fight. Well too bad. It's never gonna happen. So.
Em: But I think it works out for you because Eva...
Christine: Because I wasn't there.
Em: It's happened already. So like, I don't know.
Christine: That's what I'm saying. Is it over? Like I'm worried...
Em: Someone took one for the team.
Christine: I feel like now it's over. Wow.
Em: I feel like you're trying to push a narrative. We'll see, uh, it's...
Christine: Push a narrative. I was waking up on my birthday to these photos. I did nothing. Don't act like I had anything to do with this.
Em: All I have to say is Eva...
Christine: And you know what I'm gonna say? Every time you're like, Christine, you wanna, why won't you do with me? I'm like, well it sounds like you have a perfectly willing participant in Eva, so why don't you two go do it since you like to do it so much.
Em: The pictures are already a fine line. Umm.
[laughter]
Christine: For HR reasons. Yeah, agreed.
[laughter]
Em: Yeah. And then after that I was like, now where do I put these? Do I put them on my fridge? Do I hide them? Hiding them feels even worse. I'm like...
Christine: Hiding them feels worse. Because if somebody like goes to your house and they, they're under your mattress, it's nothing. Yeah. Like there's no way, there's no explaining yourself outta that one. No.
Em: I feel like I'm supposed to throw them in the trash, but then I also don't want Eva to feel like I don't appreciate the effort. I don't know where to stand anymore.
Christine: I do. Please put them in the trash.
Em: Eva said they're curse all around. That's an excellent. Excellent point.
Christine: Please trash them. Eva seems like she's regretting this, which is hilarious.
Em: Oh Eva says, please trash them. Think God.
Christine: I know. I'm saying I think, I feel a little bit like Eva is acting like she regrets this majorly and that really is the only accept, in my mind, the only acceptable way to feel after doing this. So, and if you guys don't know what we're talking about and you're like, what's the big deal? Just try to Google like toes intertwined, toes holding hands. I don't know. It's...
Em: Toes holding toes. I don't know.
Christine: There's something like so sinister about it in a way that I can't quite put my finger on it or my toe on it.
Em: It's very upsetting. I, and that's why I just keep mentioning it 'cause I'm like, there's a thing that will never happen, so let's just keep, like, let's just keep bringing it up.
Christine: That Em just keeps pushing and I, yeah, and I just couldn't, and.
Em: Then Eva said, I'll call that. I'll take that bet. Like, oh, it's never gonna happen. Boom. Here are pictures.
Christine: And then she said, why did I do that? I said, girl, that one's on you. You, only you and your God know why you did that. Also she said, I still remember how it feels. It felt so gross. [laughter] Eva seems more troubled by this than even I am. Which I never thought was possible, to be honest.
Em: Well, she's the one who had to endure, you know?
Christine: Had to do nothing. Again let me just clarify one more time. Had to, is not the proper verb.
Em: She's the one who endured.
Christine: Yeah. She did.
Em: And therefore is the most traumatized. And I understand. I also, I had to hold pictures of it and with, and look at it with my eyes. That was...
Christine: Oh boohoo.
Em: That was what I endured, you just have to...
Christine: Endured? You asked for it...
Em: Tertiary.
Christine: Explicitly many times.
Em: I asked for you to do it with me, not for my...
Christine: I guess you didn't feel...
Em: Employee to send me pictures.
Christine: Maybe that's what, maybe you should watch out what you say now because Eva's gonna feel like you're asking things of her that are not even, she's gonna be like, Em really wanted this and then we're gonna lose...
Em: Everything. Our careers. Yeah.
Christine: Our careers. Canceled.
Em: I think Eva took one for the team for you. So I really think you should be saying thank you. That's what I think should be happening here.
Christine: I'm not gonna say thank you for waking up at 7:30 in the morning to two pictures of Eva's toes intertwined with her partners. I'm not.
Em: Well I'm gonna say I respect you a lot more than I ever did Eva.
Christine: I didn't even bring it up. I didn't even bring it up.
Em: You had to be involved. That's how this works. So umm anyway, that was easily, easily the wildest, most un unexpected gift.
Christine: That was, that was...
Em: Gift?
Christine: Plot twist.
Em: I don't know.
Christine: Yeah, that was a...
Em: Plot twist.
[laughter]
Christine: Big plot twist indeed.
Em: Uh, and you got graduation cupcakes. I, you probably umm are less.
Christine: Did I actually win?
[laughter]
Christine: I'm just kidding. I also got...
Em: And no bagels.
Christine: A needle in my butt and a raccoon infestation in my yard 'cause of the bagels.
Em: Anyway, the, the other more important thing is that Eva, uh, and her partner Ray got us, uh, a witchy blessing for our house, which I'm very excited about. So thank you for that.
Christine: Okay. That actually doesn't feel anymore like it's the most important, but I guess that's fine.
Em: It's certainly, uh, spiritually the most important.
Christine: It is.
Em: Umm. So anyway, that was our birthday. Wow. Hey, 35 minutes later. Great.
Christine: Who knew.
[laughter]
Em: And I did most of the talking. Uh, and I'm gonna keep that energy and go into a story.
[laughter]
Christine: Sorry I talk so much. I'm gonna keep doing it.
Em: I do feel bad. I really thought we were gonna go like a a back and forth there.
Christine: No.
Em: But whoops. Okay, well I'm not gonna talk for too long. This is a short story. Whatever that means.
Christine: Your employee, your employee gave you foot pics on Polaroids for your birthday. Sorry. It's just kind of like still ruminating. You got foot, you got bare feet pictures on Polaroids, which is so intimate from your employees.
Em: As long as, as long as everybody knows like one, I did not ask for this.
Christine: No.
Em: Two, I did not expect that. This was fully of Eva's free will.
[laughter]
Christine: Okay. Okay. I bet, yeah. Okay. Fair. Alright.
Em: Please, please don't make it look like I'm like some sort of freakozoid.
Christine: I'm not. I'm just, listen, I didn't even bring it up. I was like, this is not my, uh, not my rodeo.
Em: It's, it's one of those stories where like, in a game of two truths and a lie, if based on how it's phrased, I definitely like take the cake. Like it's, it's one of those things where based on how it's phrased.
Christine: You can be like, I went to Club 33 for dinner one time. [laughter] I got, uh, all these foot books pics and this all happened in the same weekend. Just kidding. Those are all true. [laughter] Anyway.
Em: Uh, trust me. Hey, I'm mortified. But Eva, you know, I also, I feel for you girl, 'cause I, I don't know the experience of toes interlacing me. No one would do it with me. So.
Christine: Yeah but you want to, don't you?
Em: So only with you and you just won't let it happen. So it's just never gonna happen.
Christine: One day I am gonna call your bluff and we'll see.
Em: I will run away, I promise. The second I, the second I know that it's possible. I'll go wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait, wait.
Christine: Wow. So Eva took it farther than even you would? Now that's...
Em: Dedication. I'm telling you. Okay. Here is a story which sounds like it's meant for you to cover, but I promise it is for me to cover. And you'll see why. This is the story of the Prison Escape of Elias Henry Jones in Cedric Waters Hill.
Christine: Ooh. Okay.
Em: And everyone's gonna go, what? Where's the ghosts? You'll see. Okay. So most information I just wanna give a, a shout out now is that most information I got for this was from Elias Henry Jones's own personal accounts. He wrote a book right after this happened, called The Road to Endor. So if you want to read that, go for it. I will say, ummm yikes. It was from a quote, different time and the way he talks about people that are not like him was crazy. So, heads up, [laughter] ummm is everyone everyone reading the room?
Christine: Yeah.
Em: Okay, good. Ummm. So this is in 1917. This is World War I. Elias Henry Jones is a prisoner of war at a prison camp in the mountains of Turkey, in like the remote mountains.
Christine: Whoa.
Em: He, this, jail that he got sent to was for like high risk escape artists that like they knew would be able to flee to other prison camps.
Christine: So like Houdini Houdini their way out.
Em: Yes, exactly.
Christine: What an interesting like, list to be on. I'd be so proud of myself. I'd be like, yeah...
Em: Me too.
Christine: I am pretty sneaky. [laughter]
Em: I'd be like, oh my God, I made like the Shawshank Redemption tier.
Christine: Right. Ooh.
Em: So there... This camp is intentionally out in the middle of fucking nowhere. You, the prisoners of war had to yuck and yikes had to march 2000 miles. It seems to get to this location. I saw on one source hundreds and hundreds of miles, which is still bad. Someone else...
Christine: Which is still close...
Em: Someone else wrote 2,000. And either way, I mean a lot of people...
Christine: 2000 was our version of events. We're like, Yeah, it was like 3000.
Em: It was like a million.
Christine: Million or 3000. Yeah. [laughter]
Em: Yeah.
[laughter]
Em: Umm, and so anyway, they ended up having to walk and uh, they had to march all these miles. A lot of people didn't make it along the way. Umm, and it was in these high up mountains away from everything. And even if you did escape, you had to escape prison and the mountains. And then you got to locals who had a language barrier. It was very impossible for people to get out of. On top of that, the prisoners were warned that if anyone tried to escape, uh, other men would, other prisoners of war would be beaten, starved, and or killed because of what you did.
Christine: Oh shit. So it's like that guilt thing.
Em: It kept a lot of prisoners accountable.
Christine: Oh, that's fucked up.
Em: Or like kept them from encouraging...
Christine: Yeah.
Em: A mutiny or other people leaving 'cause they didn't want to be hurt. Then ironically, because this prison camp was so, everyone there was so scared to leave or they knew how trapped they were. There were very few escape attempts and security was actually kind of lax, ironically, so.
Christine: Okay, 'cause they like felt like they were like a little, uh, jaded by it. They're like, oh yeah, we're fine.
Em: Yeah, yeah. It was, it was shocking that they actually had some freedoms as prisoners of war because it had been so instilled in them to not leave.
Christine: Oh, that's creepy.
Em: Yeah. It was like a real mind fuck.
Christine: Yeah.
Em: So over time, uh, these prisoners of war earned quite a lot of trust from the guards compared to other prisoners of war at different camps. They were allowed to go on walks. They were allowed to visit each other and like hang out with each other. They were allowed to send letters to and from their family. Umm, and that being said, even though they were allowed to send letters and get letters, any correspondence was read through first to...
Christine: Sure.
Em: You know, make sure that it was a okay. And one day Elias gets a postcard from his aunt. Umm, and in the message from his...
Christine: She's like, wish you were here on the beach. [laughter] [laughter] What a dick. [laughter]
Em: Thinking of you. It's a picture of like her with Santa or something. Yeah.
Christine: I wish we were here. We're having the best time. [laughter]
[laughter]
Em: So he gets a message from his aunt and she says, Hey, I know that like, you just gotta, you know, find ways to kill time while you're there. I can't imagine how bored you must be. Have you ever thought about just like using the Ouija board? This aunt is you, so then...
Christine: Yeah, I'm like, 'cause I know exactly where to get one. [laughter]
Em: Well, so she called it spooking, which I guess meant like interacting with the spirits at all.
Christine: Okay.
Em: Umm, but so she said, oh yeah, there's, you know, I know you've heard about these Ouija boards and maybe you try one, to do one of those. Umm, and this is where I remind everyone World War I was like right around the beginning of the second wave of spiritualism. Umm, because everyone had people dying, uh, either in the war, I think it was, I mean, millions of people die in the war. And only a year after the war, the big influenza outbreak happened.
Christine: Sure.
Em: So it killed even more millions of people. So this was a heightened time for everyone who was desperate to just make contact with somebody for one last time.
Christine: Yeah.
Em: So spiritualism goes nuts. And this is where I remind you that Ouija boards have been around since 1890 something. So 1918.
Christine: So not even that long, but like probably still in vogue.
Em: Yeah. They've been around for like almost 30 years now. Spiritualism is hitting its big second wind, so I'm sure the Ouija board sails are going up.
Christine: Oh yeah. [laughter]
Em: Umm, and I'm sure his aunt was like, I saw this nutty thing at the store that's going off the shelves.
Christine: The New York Post did a whole piece.
[laughter]
Em: So she said, give it a whirl. And uh, he and his, uh, cellmates inmates, fellow inmates, they all decided, yeah, we got nothing else going on.
Christine: Good for them.
Em: Let's do that. And they made the most Christine.
Christine: Oh no. [laughter],
Em: Ouija board...
Christine: There's a photo or video of me somewhere after you took way too long to come over and I was like bored. And I made a Ouija board on the back of one of our posters and it just got so out of hand and you walked in and I had like an upside down wine glass that was still like dripping wine out of it. And I was like trying to summon the dead. And umm, so I get it.
Em: So what they did was they took a piece of paper and wrote down all the letters and used a glass. [laughter]
Christine: Yeah.
Em: As the planchette.
Christine: It works. It actually works.
Em: No no, I'm not kidding. That's what they did. [laughter]
Christine: Yeah. I know, it works. They knew.
Em: You made, you made a, a jailhouse Ouija board.
Christine: I sure did Em that's right. I think I even called it that to be honest.
Em: Well, so that's exactly what happened.
Christine: Who needs toilet wine when you've got...
[laughter]
Em: When you can drink the toilet wine and then use that glass as a planchette?
Christine: Exactly. Both.
Em: Uh, there are spirits at the bottom of this glass. Yeah.
Christine: I wanna talk to them very soon.
Em: So, so, umm, as Christine did...
Christine: Mm-Hmm.
Em: She really, I did walk in on her writing down an alphabet and just dragging a wine glass all over a piece of paper hoping to catch something.
Christine: And there was like a crumpled one on the floor and you were like, what's that? And I was like, I think I did the alphabet wrong on that one. So I threw it away. [laughter] Like, it was just such a mess. [laughter]
Em: It was, uh, it was bananas. Uh.
[laughter]
Em: Yeah. So. And Christine really, actually, maybe it was working. I don't know. We talked to something that night and it was very mind blowing. So what these guys did is they wrote down the alphabet, they did something different where they cut out the letters and put them in a circle. So that way...
Christine: Cool.
Em: I guess the wine glass had to drag further.
Christine: Oh, that's kind of smart.
Em: You'll do that on your third rendition.
Christine: I was gonna say, taking notes.
[laughter]
Em: Uh so they use a drinking glass and Elias and this guy Doc that, that he was with.
Christine: Uh-huh.
Em: They tried it first and nothing happened for a while. Someone suggested that they even like warm the glass over a candle for like the energy maybe. Um, and after that, it actually worked for a second, but it barely even spelled out one word. It only got to B and R. And one of the inmates said, maybe it's gonna spell brown. And I guess because that guy spoke for them, or I don't know, the ghosts did not like that and immediately stopped using the planchette and then literally stopped doing it for weeks. Like, stopped moving. Nothing happened for weeks.
Christine: Oh no, these sounds like a pain in the ass ghost. So sensitive.
Em: It also sounds like, I mean, this is like a skeptic's dream of like, yeah. Oh, it didn't ever work, ever for weeks and weeks and weeks. Uh, interesting that it didn't work at all. So...
Christine: And I'm like, "What a bad attitude this ghost has." [laughter] That's how far I've come from being a skeptic at all. [laughter]
Em: Well, so then the uh, the inmates kind of just gave up. They were like, "This thing does not work. Maybe we just have to buy a real Ouija board when we get outta here. I don't know." But Elias said, uh, this was actually a statement from him in his own account. He said, "It grew monotonous even for prisoners of War." And I was like...
[laughter]
Em: Love that. Um, so everyone gave up, but he, uh, knew this other inmate named The Gatherer, which is amazing.
Christine: Hello. Okay. I don't like that.
Em: I know in prisoner, in prison that people get like nicknames but like, apparently a lot of times it's for like some sort of street cred of something you've done. What the hell does Gatherer mean?
Christine: Well, that to me sounds like more menacing than anything. Like...
Em: I know. What are you gathering? Oooh.
Christine: Gathering souls, lives, body count.
Em: Like very, very, yeah, yeah, yeah. Getting a...
Christine: I'm actually reading a book about, I think there, well there is the book of the Gatherer, but uh, I'm reading a book that has the same concept and they're called gatherers and they like take, they like take people's souls.
Em: Well, maybe this guy knows something about that, I don't know.
Christine: I think I'm primed to be scared of that name. Yeah.
Em: It's a very, umm...
Christine: It's kind of unsettling.
Em: Vague, creepy name.
Christine: Yeah.
Em: So one of the prisoners, Gatherer.
Christine: What if he just gathered Lavender and that's it. [laughter] He's like, "I'm just like trying to make a tea." And they're like...
Em: He just gathered trinkets. He just likes his trinkets.
[laughter]
Christine: Aww.
Em: Well, he uh, he went to Elias and he said he had actually made his own Ouija board after he saw everybody else make their Ouija board. And he wanted to try for himself.
Christine: Craft night.
Em: And he was... Paper mache or something? Yeah. I'm wondering like what they would've... [laughter] Well, so he says, "Oh, I made a Ouija board too. Actually don't tell anyone, but I made it in secret with one of the COs here."
Christine: Oh.
Em: With one of the like officers.
Christine: He wanted to craft with you. That's cute.
Em: Apparently. And they made it from a sheet of iron that I guess they got from the kitchen, maybe like a baking sheet or something. And they glued the letters down so that way the letters wouldn't get pushed around when the glass moved. So that was his version of the Ouija board. And he said it actually, you know, worked, and maybe Elias should try that one with his friends. He did say though. He was like, "I am done with it. I don't want it. You take it. I don't want this."
Christine: The Gatherer said that?
Em: So, Yeah. So something must have happened with that Ouija board.
Christine: Yeah.
Em: Or maybe he like had a breakup with his CO I don't know.
Christine: Oh. They had a fight. Yeah, that happens.
Em: He's like, "I don't even wanna think about him anymore. Take this from me."
Christine: It just reminds me of him and all the special memories we made.
[laughter]
Em: So, uh, he says, "Take this board. I want nothing to do with it." So Elias tries it, him and his friend Doc again, Elias and Doc use this new Ouija board. And when Doc says, "Who are you?" Despite their eyes being closed, Elias had already memorized the letter's spots.
Christine: Okay.
Em: At this point. And he spells out the name Sally. [laughter] Um, and he does it intentionally. He later says that, uh...
Christine: Oh, he was just fucking around. I see. Okay.
Em: He was just fucking around. And he said that he was trying to do it for morale 'cause everyone was so fucking miserable in jail that he just wanted to give them something to like look forward to.
[laughter]
Christine: That's so sad. [laughter]
Em: Um, he also said everyone was desperate for it to work because at a time when they were, you know, in prison and everyone around them is dying, they didn't know who was alive or not. They just wanted to be able to talk to someone outside of their walls.
Christine: Oh yeah. To have like con conversation. Yeah.
Em: Um, and so he really did think of it as, I'm just trying to help just give you something interesting or make you have some sort of hope that there's more out there or.
Christine: So here's Sally.
Em: So here's Sally. And the prisoners were actually stoked. It really did boost, like, lift spirits.
Christine: Gasp. Okay.
Em: Um, and they spent the whole night talking to Sally. At some point, Sally would tell them jokes. She would make fun of them a little bit. She even flirted with some of them.
Christine: Oh, so this is all this guy, right? Like.
Em: Yeah. This is all Elias just pretending to be Sally.
Christine: Flirting with all friends to make them feel better. That's a homie. He's like... [laughter]
Em: That's like, no homo, but you have beautiful eyes.
Christine: No homo. But like I've noticed, man.
Em: You're so muscular. Wow. That's crazy. So many muscles.
Christine: You're so good at crafting. It's like just adorable.
[laughter]
Em: I saw you glue these letters down all for me.
[laughter]
Christine: Oh wow.
Em: So anyway, everyone's eating up Sally. Elias, eventually she leaves and Elias goes to bed, she leaves, he leaves, she leaves.
[laughter]
Christine: Out with Elias. It's the weirdest thing. [laughter]
Em: And Elias plans the next day to like reveal that he did this.
Christine: Oh.
Em: He was not trying to like, hurt, you know, pull the wool over or anything.
Christine: Yeah.
Em: But so many people came to him the next day before he could admit it. And they said like, "We know that you were Sally, but like, man, you gave us a good time. That was really fun."
Christine: Oh, they knew. Okay. Okay.
Em: And so even though he felt super guilty because he got so much praise from his friends that like it really actually helped them.
Christine: Yeah.
Em: He was like, "Okay, great. Well I'm just gonna keep this joke running with whoever wants to pay attention to it. And we'll, we'll do it that way. We'll just like challenge accepted. How long can we go? And either you can watch me prank other people or I can do it for you as like a gag, like whatever you want." Umm. And it became this thing where some people still really believed that Sally was real and that he actually was talking to a spirit. And so for those people, he was like, okay, I'm just gonna keep doing this just to keep you entertained. And although he was joking, other prisoners did fall for it. And they started even creating tests to see if Elias was fucking with them or not.
Christine: Oh no, it's gone too far.
Em: It went too far. But he had already committed to the bit.
Christine: Yeah. Umm, I feel like this is a classic like sitcom, some sort of That's So Raven hijinks.
Em: Yes, definitely. Of like, oh no, so.
Christine: I was just trying to make everybody have fun.
[laughter]
Em: So they would blindfold him. They would even move the board around on the table.
Christine: Oh. Sneaky.
Em: In different directions. So he wouldn't know the layout. But here's the thing. Elias had already made indents in certain areas of the board, so he knew the layout.
Christine: He took this bit really far. Okay. Okay.
Em: I think he was like this. I imagine this was, I didn't see this that he said this, but I imagine he was also entertained by this in prison.
Christine: Okay. I was literally about to say the same thing. I think we're all realizing this was for him and his morale more than anyone else's.
Em: I think he just wanted to stay stimulated in some way, just so.
Christine: Yeah. It sounds like he's loving it.
Em: He was trying to beat them, trying to beat him, so.
Christine: Be Sally.
Em: Umm, but so he was beating them on all of their tests. One time the prisoners even inverted the board, so all the letters were on the opposite side. Like they, and he basically had to imagine the board upside down and he ended up like fooling them again.
Christine: Wow.
Em: He almost got caught one time because they replaced the letters on the board with secret code, but then like, like out of a movie, one of the guys accidentally let it slip how the code worked.
Christine: Oh my gosh.
Em: And so Elias was able to figure it out.
Christine: Also like, how smart is Sally the ghost that she knows this fucking code, [laughter] was like really intense. Okay.
Em: So he was able to fool them all every time, all of the prisoners were convinced and Elias was now able to keep up his shtick without question. And he made up regular characters, uh, who told them of the outside world. Uh, one rule that he stood by though was that he would never pretend to be someone's dead loved one, which was...
Christine: Oh, that, well, that's a good rule. I guess.
Em: He only made up fake people. The only exception was apparently he pretended to be this woman named Louise, who one of the, umm, soldiers like one time had like a random hookup with, and I think it was just like poke fun at him of like, oh, I'm Louise. And here, let me rag on you for a little bit. I don't know. I think it was like a bit that everyone was in on.
Christine: I see.
Em: I'm not too sure. And then there was like a another, uh, one of the sources I saw was that Louise was actually alive and a psychic. And so maybe the bit was that he was pretending to actually communicate with her physically through the board.
Christine: That's kind of funny.
Em: Oh, so it'd be like, oh, I'm talking to her and she says that you were terrible in bed.
Christine: I like, actually like that.
Em: Like I imagine it's something like that.
Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Em: So, uh, while all this is happening, Elias is like known as like Mr. Ouija board. There's another guy in prison named Cedric Waters Hill, and he's hosting his own seance. This is like, just to let you know that like for us, this sounds so silly of like, why are there so many like, acts here spiritually.
Christine: This is...
Em: But this was during the height of spiritualism everyone was doing it, didn't matter who you were.
Christine: I bet the guards too were like so into watching it. Like, I'm gonna stay late on my lunch break and just like see what happens. [laughter]
Em: Yeah. Yeah. So, Umm, yeah, this was like, I think just very common at the time, everyone was a spiritualist, or at least everyone knew someone who was.
Christine: It was like... It was like normal. It wasn't as like.
Em: Bananas as we might think of it.
Christine: Yeah. Right.
Em: So this guy was hosting his own seance and apparently he also has some traction with the prisoners because people were saying, Man, Cedric Waters hill, his seances, items are flying around the room and windows are shattering and he's able to like manifest shit. Like think like his is weird and creepy.
Christine: What? He's like found his shtick, his deal.
Em: Totally.
Christine: Yeah.
Em: And Elias even jokingly calls Cedric his competitor in prison, [laughter] as like, of like, oh, I've got the Ouija board thing. He's got the seance thing.
Christine: They're like competing psychics across the street.
Em: And then they form an alliance and the two of them meet up to talk about spirits. And it turns out that they just openly confess to each other that they're both frauds.
Christine: Shut the fuck up. These two are entrepreneurs.
Em: Cedric had, I guess like a a an inside man who was moving all the stuff around when he was doing his seances.
Christine: He had an accomplice. This is amazing.
Em: So the two of them now know each other's tricks and they're like, you and I could build an empire. And eventually this one guy that works at the prison, he's an interpreter or a translator, uh, his name. I don't know why, but the inmates called him the pimple.
[laughter]
Christine: Okay. Maybe they didn't think, maybe they told him it meant something else. [laughter]
Em: Yeah. I don't know. I know that... Well, he was the interpreter. He should know what the pimple means, right?
Christine: I guess so. Yeah. True.
Em: I do know he was short, so I'm like, maybe 'cause he was tiny.
Christine: You're just a little pimple.
Em: Or stout, a little pimple.
Christine: Maybe it was like a inside joke, like a translation didn't translate right and then it caught on and stuff. I don't know.
Em: What, however it went. I saw that he was known as the pimple, and I'm like, wow. Even he couldn't escape it. Maybe everyone else thought they were saying something else and he was like, I have to just let them say it. Like, I don't wanna cause anymore. I don't wanna ruffle feathers.
Christine: I just have to let it go.
Em: Umm, anyway, so the pimple, he goes to Elias and he asks about these seances, he asks about Cedric Waters Hill. He asks about the Ouija board, and he, who's also a spiritualist, he says, Elias, I have some questions for you to ask the spirits for me. Which I love that like, your captors are now coming to you for favors.
Christine: They're like relying on you now. Yeah. This feels very Orange Is The New Black. I'm loving it.
Em: Yeah, obviously.
[laughter]
Em: Uh, so Elias decides this might actually benefit me if I get these guards to trust me.
Christine: Hell yes.
Em: So absolutely Mr. Pimple, I will help you.
[laughter]
Christine: Mr. Pimple.
Em: And, [laughter], so Elias holds a seance. He asks the Pimple's questions and gets answers and sends them back to him. The Pimple asks more questions to the spirits and then even demands for something to move in the room because he wants to know that these spirits are real.
Christine: Some proof.
Em: When he did this, when he said like, you need to move something right now. Elias then goes, oh, you've angered the spirits by demanding something of them, they're gonna, you know, they don't like to be told what to do. You're gonna regret that. You're gonna regret that. And apparently, as he's saying this, Elias slipped something into the pimple's drink. So that way...
Christine: What?
Em: So that way later he would get sick, which confirmed that the ghosts were mad at him. So that way it wouldn't...
Christine: So all the time he's had like roofies on him and he is like, man, I need this Ouija board to like trick the guards. And it's like, not really, you're literally roofing them, [laughter] but okay.
Em: It was called, I think I'm saying it right, Calomel, Calomel. Calomel?
Christine: Calomel. Yeah.
Em: But it was, it was, uh, it induces vomiting and some tummy problems, and apparently in high doses it can cause mercury poisoning.
Christine: Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, despite frequently causing mercury poisoning in patients. Yeah. Calomel. Yeah.
Em: Uh, it just makes you super sick for the day, like food poisoning stuff.
Christine: Gotcha.
Em: And, umm, but so I guess it was a way to really convince even his captors though, like, oh, not only are the ghosts my friends, not only do I understand them in a way you don't...
Christine: Uh-huh.
Em: But they will hurt you if you...
Christine: Right.
Em: Don't act right around them.
Christine: You've got that pimple right under your thumb.
Em: Yeah. [laughter] So the pimple gets sick and becomes extremely invested in these seances being like, oh my God, I was told that this ghost would hate me.
Christine: He's hooked.
Em: And, and it, he's hooked. On top of this, one of the higher ups above even the pimple. He's the commander. He's the... I don't know what the scab, let's call him that, umm.
Christine: The scab. Oh, [laughter]
Em: What's another?
Christine: It took me a second. I was like, scab? The zit. The zit, the big zit.
Em: Umm, he's known by the way, to like to be a spiritualist outside of work. Umm, and he believes that the prisoner's ongoing Ouija communication is very dangerous. Purely because since he's a believer, in, in spirits communicating with you, he thinks that these spirits are either going to give or give them news about the war, or they are gonna be able to pass news on to other people from prison. He was worried that the prisoners were going to tell the ghosts and the ghosts would tell like other people...
Christine: I see.
Em: On in the outside world. Or he was worried that the ghosts would be able to inform them on things they shouldn't know. So he comes up with this rule where he's like, prisoners are not allowed to include in any of their letters home things they learn in a seance. [laughter] Because they didn't want civilians to learn like war strategy, I guess.
Christine: Okay, that's... Wow. They're really, uh, they're really all in it, huh? They're really in it.
Em: Yeah. It is like, oh, I'm not allowed to tell people what the ghost said. Can you imagine though?
Christine: It's like wild.
Em: If like, but the aunt of all people wants to know what the ghost said because she's the one who suggested this to begin with.
Christine: She's just curious. She's gotta let her get an update, at least.
Em: This gets Elias super jazzed because now he knows that the captors are taking this very seriously. He knows that they're nervous about what the prisoners are learning or able to pass along to others. And one day, one of the prisoners, this is just a totally random thing, one of the prisoners finds this like leather strap in the ground, and he's like, what is this? And so he pulls on it and attached to it it's like a whole holster of a gun and ammo.
Christine: What?
Em: And this, which shockingly nobody uses in the prison escape. This is not even like part the...
Christine: So they've got roofies, or not roofies, but they've got fucking...
Em: They've got it all.
Christine: Poison and they've got, I mean, and they've got them all.
Em: And they've got, and they're not using any of it.
Christine: And they're just like, anyway, we better find ghosts to help us out.
Em: Yeah.
[laughter]
Em: And so they find this gun and there was a rumor that it belonged to one of the locals who had, you know, once lived there. Umm, but within a few days, I guess the news had circulated that people had found buried treasure.
Christine: Well, sort of. [laughter]
Em: And this leads to The Pimple. He hears that the inmates are finding buried treasure, and he goes to Elias and says, do you know if the spirits can guide you to buried treasure? Because I would like you to help me find buried treasure.
Christine: Umm. This guy.
Em: It, it turned out that there was a rumor that there was actually buried treasure in the area. So I guess this interpreter, this officer was like, if you help me, you know, maybe we can work something out. Umm, so the interpreter wanted to find out if Elias could help him and ding, ding, ding. This was the beginning of Elias' plan.
Christine: Mm-Hmm.
Em: Umm, because the staff didn't know about the gun that the prisoners had just found. So Elias reburies it and then leads the interpreter.
Christine: Oh my God.
Em: To the gun to prove that he can in fact lure them to real treasure.
Christine: Oh my... Do you know, that is so smart.
Em: Soon the, uh, the other officers now know that Elias can help them find treasure.
Christine: Oh, God. [laughter] This is crazy.
Em: Elia says, I will help you, but it has to be a secret because England might quote, execute me for financially aiding enemy forces.
Christine: Oh. Yeah. He's like, I just gotta be so careful. You know what I mean? Like.
Em: I have to be so careful and like, nobody can know about this. Let's keep it real hush hush.
Christine: Like I wanna help you. Of course, of course. I wanna help you find treasure.
Em: Of course. Me the prisoner wants to help my captors more than anything. You know this.
Christine: Of course. Not for Myself, just for you. You know this about me.
Em: You know this.
Christine: I've always said that.
Em: I've always said that. And I always will. And I, and I've never said anything else either.
Christine: And like we can all attest to that, right Sally?
[laughter]
Em: And the, and, uh, the commander of the, this whole group of officers, he's like, honestly, I totally agree. This needs to be kept secret because I don't, first of all, I don't wanna look like a weirdo.
Christine: Obviously.
Em: Obviously but on top of that, on top of that, I don't want the higher ups to know that I'm working with a prisoner. They can't know that.
Christine: Finding treasure on the side. Yeah. No, no, no. They're not gonna like that.
Em: Yeah. We both want this to be quiet, so no one's gonna know. No one's gonna know.
Christine: Genius.
Em: And then Elias went, he, he, he, he.
Christine: Okay.
Em: He went even further to say, and you know what? I'm not as strong on my own, but you know that medium in there, Cedric, who does all the seances, he should help too. I know he would really be good.
Christine: He's top notch.
Em: We don't have a lot of psychics here, A lot of mediums, but he is number one after me.
Christine: And Doc was like, wait.
Em: So I think he should come with us. Yeah. [laughter]
Christine: What the fuck about me? What am I, chopped liver?
Em: It's like I was part of this origin story. What the hell happened?
Christine: What the hell?
Em: So Elias convinces the staff to, uh, let him and Cedric get together, leaving prison property to take them on a treasure hunt through the mountains.
Christine: This is wild. This is just plain wild.
Em: They secretly hid clues for the other to dig up when the spirits told them something was nearby uh to keep the ruse going. And they did it real smart too. They did it super slow where like they would do a treasure hunt and then go back to prison and they would gain their trust until eventually they could take them on multiple treasure hunts.
Christine: That's probably the hardest part. Like you've got to play the, a long game. Oh my gosh.
Em: This became their new scheme to use these treasure hunts to eventually escape, and these treasure hunts totally led by fucking spirits.
Christine: Wow.
Em: While, while on these trips, they even, I don't know how they, if they smuggled the camera or something with them, or the prisoner or the inmates. I don't know if the guards had cameras. I don't know how, but there's a camera involved. While on these trips, Cedric and Elias would take pictures secretly of the staff letting them outside and wandering around with them while they're unchained, so uh that way if anything happened, they could use these pics...
Christine: I see.
Em: To send them to the higher ups to say, our captors were complicit in our escape, and no prisoners can be harmed because of our escape.
Christine: Sorry, not our fault. By the way, like a camera back then, wasn't it on giant tripods and it took like three hours to take a photo. They're taking secret photos.
Em: It's not like you just hold your phone.
Christine: It's not very secret.
Em: It had to be like the spirits say, look over there and stare for five hours.
Christine: Yeah, the spirits totally said that, and there's going to be a flash of lightning, and then they're like, the flashbulb goes off. Oh God.
Em: Or like you might as well bring your oil paints out while you're at it and just...
Christine: Paint it.
Em: There will be a mural when you turn around.
Christine: It's the weirdest thing.
Em: This didn't last very long because there actually was an inmate who found out what Elias and Cedric were up to, and he resented that they were gonna be able to escape. He knew their plan. He knew it was gonna work.
Christine: Oh, what a narc.
Em: And instead of like joining them, he decided that he was also a medium.
Christine: Uh, for God's sake.
Em: And the spirits he was talking to said that Elias and Cedric were going to be able to escape.
Christine: He's such a little monster.
Em: And then he told the staff, Hey, look out, because the ghosts are telling me that Elias and Cedric are going to be able to leave. And then he went so far as to say, even if Elias and Cedric, 'cause I guess this got back to Elias and Cedric, and they had to go to the staff and they were like, no, we're not planning on escaping. No. Why would someone say that about us? So then the medium was like, oh yes, the non-medium. He was like, oh yes. The spirits are telling me now that even against their will, the ghosts are going to trick them into escaping.
Em: So it's like no matter what, you can't trust what Cedric and Elias are saying.
Christine: He's... Right, right, right, right.
Em: So this freaked out the commander because he was worried that even if these guys weren't actually trying to escape, the spirits would trick them into it.
Christine: Oh my God.
Em: And then he would have... Then he would have two prisoners disappearing under his command and he'd be in trouble. So he stopped the treasure hunts. He was like, no, no, no, no, no. That can't be. Now out of options because imagine literally stepping foot in the free world multiple times and like had you just run that last time, you would've been fine.
Christine: This motherfucking guy decides he needs to get involved.
Em: So by the way, I don't know prison rules, but shouldn't that third guy be dead now? Like shouldn't he have been killed.
Christine: I think uh the gatherer should have done some gathering.
Em: I think so too. I don't, I don't know enough about prison politics, but I feel like if someone hinders you from escaping when you were so close.
Christine: I mean, especially if you could...
Em: That guy would be on my shit list.
Christine: Especially, there's literal poison in your pocket and you can say, oh, the ghost did it like you're...
Em: Right.
Christine: Easy.
Em: Anyway. So now the treasure hunts are no more. And so now out of options, Elias and Cedric try one final plan that they're going to fake insanity in hopes that they would be sent home. 'Cause I guess that happens sometimes.
Christine: No, they're... Anyway, that's all out the window. So are you serious?
Em: Cedric says it would be impossible to convince the higher ups that both of them were insane at the same time. Umm he was like, that's an obvious scheme, Elias you just say that you're insane and get sent home. I'll, I'll take one for the team and stay behind. And Elias said, fuck that. We've both been pretending that we're mediums and talking to ghosts. We both look fucking insane. You're coming with me.
Christine: Yeah, this is easy.
Em: They had not told the staff yet, like, oh, we are mentally not well. Instead, they use the medium thing and they told the higher ups that were listening to them, the spirits are telling us that we, that the staff should write to their higher ups that we've lost our minds, like almost getting them like by force to write letters...
Christine: Oh this is what the spirits want.
Em: That they are vouching, that they need to go home.
Christine: Got it.
Em: Yeah, the spirits want you to vouch for us that we need to go home basically.
Christine: Gotcha.
Em: Umm and so these, like the pimple and the commander, they wrote letters to doctors.
Christine: Oh my God, they're really wrapped around this guy's finger, man.
Em: They said that Cedric and Elias were mediums that were recently experiencing paranoid and violent delusions. Umm they wrote that uh both men were, which this is things that I can't tell if it was like Elias and Cedric just told them to write, or.
Christine: Right, like how much of this is coming from the guards versus like what they were told to write.
Em: Well, how much of it was, was the spirits just telling... I think I'm totally guessing here, and you'll understand why in a second. I think what's happening is that Cedric and Elias went to the guards and said, this is what's happening to us. Or they said, the spirits are telling us this is about to happen to us and we're about to lose our minds, and this is our last cohesive thing we can say to you before we lose our minds. And so this is your warning to write letters now before it gets too bad. Because they had the guards that they are totally losing it. They're super paranoid that their food's being poisoned. They've stopped eating, they've stopped bathing, they've stopped sleeping. And then Cedric and Elias actually committed to it. So that way when doctors came to visit them in the prison, it looked real.
Christine: Why did anybody care about them? Like if I were a prisoner, I'd be like, I'd be worried they would just kill me and be like, you're a pain in the ass.
Em: Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. Everyone's bored apparently here I have...
Christine: I guess so.
Em: So... Umm, yeah. So I think they were saying like, the spirits are about to do this to us.
Christine: Oh and they probably have that threat of punishment, like, you can't kill us because the ghosts will then reap vengeance on you.
Em: Right, right, right. Umm, so they said, the the spirits want you to do this, and if you don't, then you're fucked. So they write these letters, the doctors come to check on them, and Elias and, and Cedric literally do stop bathing, eating, sleeping as much as they can. That way when the doctors get there, they look sick.
Christine: Whoa.
Em: So that way it will play into the story that they really do need to go to a hospital and they get approved to go to a psychiatric hospital. And while on the way Cedric and Elias decided that they really need to sell it, they're like one, one final thing to sell their condition, and they stage their own suicides.
Christine: What?
Em: I feel like we're doing too much here because like we were already on our way out of prison.
Christine: We're leaving.
Em: Like it's already happening. But they think they want to like really prove that they must be mentally unstable.
Christine: As Renee's mom, as Renee's mom always said, when Renee was making a poster board and added far too much glitter, don't junk it up. You've done a fine job. One more sprint, one more sprinkle of glitter.
Em: Didn't know where that was going.
Christine: You junked it up.
Em: Too much. Too much, too much.
Christine: Be patient.
Em: So in a brief moment where they were unattended, they hang themselves with loose nooses because they know within seconds someone's going to come back to get them. So they, it works somehow it was weirdly successful that, okay, now everyone's convinced that they have been fully driven to madness by being mediums, and...
Christine: And they think they're dead.
Em: And well, no, they, they come, they save them in time.
Christine: Oh, oh, oh. Got it, got it, got it, got it.
Em: They save them in time being like, oh, now you're clearly, so.
Christine: I see. So it was an attempt and then they were like, wow, you must really be off your rocker if you're trying to die by suicide.
Em: So you're really going through it. You gotta go home. But for, but there were some skeptics who were like, I don't know about this. This sounds really shady. [laughter] And they happened to work at the hospital.
Christine: Oh.
Em: And so they put Elias and Cedric through all these tests to like interrogating them about spirituality, like trying to test their, like cognitive, like, to make sure that they were actually okay. I don't know what actually happened here. It sounds like it was really horrible. And like inhumane treatments that like nearly killed them. I, this doesn't feel like a psychiatric hospital I'd like to be in. It was also in 1917. So, like...
Christine: Right. I was gonna say, I mean, we've heard enough about asylums and we, yeah. Yeah. Not, not that. And that they have foreigners who are prisoners of war, like.
Em: Right, right. So I don't know, I don't know like the details of that. But it sounds like for the next six months...
Christine: Six months?
Em: They were put through like all these trials, six months to see if they were even telling the truth. If how believable they were, if any of this was real.
Christine: By that point probably you would lose your mind like, holy shit.
Em: Yeah. They, they even said that. They were like, it felt like we were actually, actually going through it now.
Em: Yeah. The bit is going too far again, they're junking it up.
Christine: But they kept up the shtick and eventually doctors just had to give up and they're like, there's no evidence that they're faking their mediumship or their illness.
Christine: Holy shit.
Em: And I guess they can go home. And so they end up going home. And the irony is only like two or three weeks later, the war was over, [laughter] and they would've gone home anyway after all of this.
Christine: Oh God. Oh, buddies.
[laughter]
Em: It was like after this entire story, if you just didn't do anything for two more weeks, you would've been fine.
Christine: Oh God.
Em: Umm, when he got home, he started writing down what happened, all of this and like fully admitting to everything. But he, he did say it made him unsure if there's any true mediums out there because he fooled for six months. Like psychiatric people.
Christine: Yep.
Em: Like professionals and like intense guards...
Christine: And like people...
Em: And all of his friends.
Christine: His friends, people who knew him. Like, yeah, that's pretty surprising.
Em: Because of this, he said that he was very worried by the way that all of his skeptical friends and all these skeptical men surrounding him, how quickly they were, they became gullible because they were just so desperate.
Christine: Yeah. That's sad. And then when you talked about spiritualism and like the desperation to talk to your loved ones, that makes it a little icky.
Em: Yeah. He uh, he almost, it's interesting 'cause he was clearly doing this to escape prison and he accidentally became his own like case study because he ends up writing in his own accounts that he was very worried about the millions of people that were grieving around him because there was a pandemic, there was the war, there was a genocide, uh, up where he was staying. Umm, so during a spiritualist movement, all that happening, he worried that they were all in danger of being taken advantage of. Umm, and he would've never even thought of that had he not been the one taking advantage of people.
Christine: Oh, right. He's like, wait, this was a lot easier than I thought. And now he can probably, it's like Houdini, right? Like he can see through the tricks.
Em: Yeah.
Christine: Because he's done them.
Em: So he ends it up, this is a quote from his account saying, if this book saves one bereaved mother from preferring the unwholesome excitement of the seance and the trivial babble of a hired trickster to the healing power of moral and religious reflection...
Christine: Oh.
Em: On the truths that give to human life its stability and worth, then the miseries and sufferings through which we pass in our struggle for freedom will indeed have had a most ample reward.
Christine: Whoa. So he's like, turn to Jesus instead.
Em: He was like, don't just don't believe these people, folks.
Christine: Yeah. Yeah.
Em: I've been there. So this is the, that's the...
Christine: That is...
Em: Prison Escape of Elias Henry Jones and Cedric Waters Hill.
Christine: The craziest thing. I can't believe I've never heard of that. Like, that feels like such a grabby headline. Like, these prisoners use a Ouija board to escape, you know?
Em: I know.
Christine: How did you find this story?
Em: Yeah. Well, uh, uh, our handy dandy Saoirse.
Christine: Yeah. Finds the best stuff, the most random stuff. Well, Em, good job. Nice work. That was a...
Em: Thank you.
Christine: Delightful story. Uh, here we go. I have a tale for you. [laughter]
Em: Anyway. No time, no time to dilly dally. Here's something fucked up.
Christine: Anyway. Enough of that. Umm, I have a story today that I actually recommended Saoirse look into because remember the case of the body in room 348 that I covered relatively recently, where that man died mysteriously and...
Em: Oh yes, yes, yes.
Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so this is spoilers for those who haven't heard the episode. Umm, so if you wanna listen to it, it was episode 381, but the private eye, Ken Brennan, who was the one that shined the laser through the bullet hole and was able to figure it out.
Em: Yeah.
Christine: Like he's this private eye former, I don't, I think former NYPD like. Like he needs a show about him. You know what I mean? Umm.
[laughter]
Em: He's the real Elliot Stabler.
Christine: Yeah, I was, he's, there might be a show about this guy to be quite honest. So this PI, Ken Brennan, he's the one who solved that case. And I had mentioned there's another case connected to him that I wanna cover soon. And that is this case. So this is the other kind of notorious case that Ken Brennan solved when nobody else could figure it out. So it's another mystery.
Em: Ooh. Okay.
Christine: Umm, I know.
Em: I love that.
Christine: And we get answers again. So it's kind of the best of both worlds. Uh, this was the original case that got coverage in Vanity Fair for Ken Brennan's involvement. And he like Sherlocked homes the shit out of it, you know, and that kind of put him on the map. And, uh, here we go. I'm gonna dive right into it. So we're in the year 2005. It's just after 8:00 AM and a power line worker is driving through an undeveloped suburb of the edge of Miami, Florida. As he passes by the empty lots that line this cul-de-sac, he spots, what he pretty immediately realizes is a body on the side of the road.
Em: Oh boy.
Christine: He pulls over and indeed he finds a young woman, she's curled up in the grass naked. There are obvious signs somebody has beaten this woman severely. Her face is swollen, covered in lacerations. Her whole body is covered in violent bruises. He's staring at her in horror for a long moment, and then he realizes that she is still alive. So of course, he immediately calls for help. The woman is airlifted to Jackson Memorial Hospital. She is unconscious for a full 24 hours, barely clinging to life in critical condition. So, you know, as she's unconscious, all they can do is assess her body and they realize she has been raped repeatedly. She has suffered multiple brutal blows to her head, uh, so intensely that they fractured the bones in her eye socket. Like really, really.
Em: Oh my God.
Christine: Uh, aggressively, brutally attacked. And the case went to a detective named Alan Foote. Now [laughter] Alan Foote... And by the way, in, in the last case with this Ken Brennan, the guy, his name was Detective Apple. So now we've got detective Apple, detective Foote.
Em: You know, I feel like they could have like one of those law offices of like Apple, Foote and Pimple.
[laughter]
Christine: Apple and Foote. Umm, really.
Em: Detective Agency.
Christine: Detective Agency.
Em: Apple Foote actually doesn't sound like too bad of a, a detective name. Detective Apple Foote.
Christine: Apple Foote actually kind of works. Maybe that can be a character in our chime traveler. Wait, chime Traveler, [laughter], what's it called?
Em: Or Our chime travels [laughter] Oh wait, our crime travels.
Christine: Are we.
Em: Are we okay?
Christine: No, uh, our crime travelers [laughter], uh, we're working on it. It's okay. Umm, so Detective Alan Foote now, he, like I said, really doesn't have much to work with because this woman is unconscious. There's no way to identify her. Uh, she doesn't have any, uh, identifying documents on her. No wallet, nothing like that. So he drove to the neighborhood where she was found, and he walked door to door asking whether anyone knew her or had witnessed anything unusual.
Christine: And nobody had seen anything. Now, the scary part was they weren't sure if she was gonna survive. Right? So if she does not survive, this is kind of, uh, I mean, sorry for the choice of words, but a dead end, there's really not much they can do.
Em: Yeah, yeah.
Christine: And so thank God she did ultimately regain consciousness. Umm, her jaw was so swollen that she couldn't speak. Instead, she was able to communicate through writing. The first thing she wrote down was her name, and her name was Inna Budnytska. She then wrote a second name along with a phone number, and both of those belonged to her attorney.
Em: Oh, wow. Okay. I was thinking like.
Christine: I know.
Em: Her mom or something. Okay.
Christine: So of course it's a little odd to detectives, right? They're thinking, yeah, maybe we should call your mom, or like a sister, a friend, anybody. Umm, and they're like, well, you know, maybe she's involved in something criminal. Is that why she wants a lawyer right away? And here's the thing, it's nothing that dramatic or exciting. She actually was just trying to get ahold of anyone who could advocate for her. She was a Ukrainian employee who worked for a cruise line that operated out of Miami, and she had been injured on the ship where she worked.
Christine: And so she was in the middle of this civil litigation against the cruise line, and she had this lawyer who was helping her through that. So basically the only person she knew locally was this attorney who was helping her.
Em: Wow.
Christine: 'Cause she, she was just in town, because that's where the port of the cruise ship was. She was actually from Ukraine. And so she's going this through this legal suit, and while this is going on, she's staying at this hotel and just kind of waiting. And it's called the airport Regency Hotel. And she's, by the way, all of these, like Ken Brennan stories are hotel themed, I'm noticing. Umm.
Em: Yeah. This man, he's really into like hotel crimes.
Christine: Yeah. I feel like that's his current, current phase. Anyway, umm.
Em: I also, I, I feel so bad for this woman. I can't imagine like being in town where you don't know...
Christine: Right. You don't even want to be there.
Em: The language. Or maybe, maybe she knows the language, but she doesn't know anybody.
Christine: She doesn't know anybody.
Em: And like, but she is already there for a crime and uh, like a legal matter. And now there's a whole double legal matter. Like I can't imagine having to juggle two things or.
Christine: It's like one on top of the other.
Em: Yeah. Maybe a victim of. Yeah.
Christine: Because the first one, she was injured and so she was in this hotel basically for the foreseeable future, just recovering from the injury. Like there was nothing she could do.
Em: So she was already weak too.
Christine: Yeah, she was already in.
Em: From her first attack.
Christine: Already. And umm, so that first accident, whatever it was, I don't know the details about that, but, uh, so she's stuck in this hotel. The Airport Regency, recovering from this injury. She's alone in a foreign country, no family, no close friends. She later said the only person she really knew to reach out to was the attorney handling her civil suit. So that was sort of a dead end. At first I thought, oh, maybe this is some sinister, you know, uh, thing she's involved with. No. So Inna then wrote down questions asking what had happened, who hurt her, and the detectives were like, huh you know, that's actually what we were kind of hoping to ask you. Who hurt you? Who did this? Umm But Inna was like, I don't know.
Christine: And they were like, well, we certainly don't know. So we're kind of at an impasse here. Uh she did remember, so her memory was very foggy, but she did remember that the night before she was discovered in the empty neighborhood, she had gone out for dinner and drinks with a man named Peter, who was a Greek acquaintance that worked for the same cruise line and happened to be in town. So they went out to grab a drink. They left the bar together in a cab, dropped Peter off at home, and then Inna returned to her hotel alone just before midnight. She then left at 3:30 in the morning umm to walk to a nearby gas station where she purchased a minutes card for her phone because Inna was very close with her mother and they talked on the phone as often as possible. But in the, with the time difference, it was the middle of the night when Inna got back umm, to her hotel from the gas station, it was 3:40 AM in Florida, but in Ukraine it was almost 11:00 AM. So this was kind of their like little routine that she would call at like 4:00 AM to talk to her mom.
Em: Sure.
Christine: And so investigators were able to confirm this timeline because despite the fact that it was only 2005 and this is like a random Airport Regency hotel, they had an extremely advanced security system for the time. And yeah, I feel like we never have that. It's always, oh, guess what?
Em: It's always though the camera's busted in the corner of the wall.
Christine: The camera's busted. Or oops, we accidentally turned it off that day, but only that day. You know, it's always something like that. But no, they actually had a very advanced security system. And so they had these 16 high quality cameras with motion sensor activation, umm, and it monitored the entire perimeter of the hotel's exterior and part of the lobby. But there were no cameras in hallways or elevators for guest privacy. Uh, but basically anywhere else, any exit, any entry point, no matter where was being watched with cameras just to make sure people could see who came in and out of this building.
Christine: So additionally, two security guards stood on duty at night. Umm, there was a fence surrounding the property and the back gate was locked as well as the back door to the hotel itself. So this is like a very, umm, what do you call it? Locked down place. Like there are not people, not randoms getting in and out of here. And so it'd be nearly impossible for anyone to come and go without being seen. And Inna was very clearly on the security footage, unmistakable. She left the hotel for dinner. She returned alone, not with that Peter guy. Uh, she left again for her phone card at 3:30 AM returned around 3:40. And that was that. The mystery now became, wait a minute, who did this to you? But also how did you end up on the side of the road?
Em: Oh, she didn't have a rental car.
Christine: There was no footage of this woman leaving the hotel after her short trip to the gas station.
Em: Oh, what?
Christine: Do you remember?
Em: Oh no. Is this like a... What? I was gonna say, is this like a body in the suitcase situation?
[laughter]
Em: I feel like there's weirdly more than one of those stories. So now I'm like panicked that someone brought her in a way where she was not shown.
Christine: All right, Well let's see. So there is no footage of her leaving the hotel after her short trip to the gas station. So Detective Foote is stumped. He, interesting choice of words, Saoirse, was that on purpose? I don't think so.
[laughter]
Christine: Uh, he considered that she might have been like thrown over a balcony, lowered down by a rope, like maybe somehow got out of a window and was unseen by cameras. But even then there were cameras like on the ground. So she should have been captured on one of them at some point in the night. So then he starts thinking, well maybe someone at the hotel was involved, someone who could like tamper with the footage or disable the cameras. Umm, and so security footage in the lobby showed that the night manager that night was George Perez. And he actually left the front desk for 15 minutes and got on an elevator with Inna at one point.
Em: Oh, okay.
Christine: And investigators were already wary of George when they first spoke because he told them outright that he didn't trust police officers. And they're like, well that can't, that can't be right. Something's off.
Em: I don't blame him. But also like, shut your mouth in the moment, you know?
Christine: But also not, now's not the time. Right? It's kind of like, uh, yeah, it's like for your own sake, let's save.
Em: Read the room. Yeah.
Christine: Read The room Boo buddy. Uh, these guys are not, yeah, they're not to be trifled with. Umm, now they were wondering if he was like nervous 'cause he had something to hide. I mean, to be quite frank, it doesn't sound like he was nervous at all. It sounds like he was pretty damn bold and didn't.
Em: He sounds like Oscar the Grouch. He's like, I don't like you.
Christine: He's like, I don't care what you, what you think of me. Yeah. And so I don't know what they're talking about nervous, but anyway, they thought maybe there's something up with this guy. He doesn't trust us and that can't be right. So they look into him. He has master key card access to every room in the hotel. And like I said, he's seen walking out of the lobby into the elevator with Inna. And so don't get me wrong, trusting cops, not trusting cops. This is fishy, I think this, like, if I were a detective, I'd be like...
Em: I think it's coincidental.
Christine: Coincidental at best.
Em: Like what are the odds?
Christine: Yeah, like, let's look into this guy. So they talked to George of course, and he said, well, Inna was tipsy when she returned to the hotel after dinner and he escorted her to her room to make sure she got there safely. And so Detective Foote was like, alright. And she remembered that too and said, no, that guy just left me at the room. Nothing happened. So Detective Foote put a pin in that and also looked closely at this friend Peter, umm, that she had gotten drinks with, because apparently Peter had a little bit of a background. He had been recently actually arrested in a domestic violence dispute. Umm, and it actually occurred with Inna, she was part of the dispute.
Em: Oh.
Christine: So in fact, Inna and Peter had been at a nightclub together having drinks. And I guess Peter wasn't feeling safe because of some of the people at the nightclub. He wanted to leave, Inna wanted to stay. Peter tried to pull her outside by the arm. Don't do that to a drunk girl. From my experience as a drunk girl that will send me fucking off the handle.
Em: Over the edge.
Christine: Yeah, don't pull on me. Don't grab me. Yeah. So he tried to pull her out by the arm. I mean, I don't know the circumstances. Sounds like he was in a bad spot. They start arguing, the club security guard happened to be a police officer. He intervened. Peter was arrested and you know, obviously it seemed like they had worked things out. Now they were going out again to get drinks, but Peter of course still had to be looked at just like George. So both men agreed to put, uh, DNA samples forward and they wanted to compare, you know, their DNA obviously to what was collected in the rape kit, but neither were matches to her attacker. So.
Em: So now it's a third random person, we don't know anything about.
Christine: Correct. Okay. Back to square one. So Detective Foote is, umm.
Em: Stumped.
Christine: I was like, what's a, any other word? Nope. Can't come up with one. Umm. So while investigators tried to put together a timeline and figure out like how the fuck Inna got out of the hotel, umm, Inna unfortunately started, uh, experiencing the symptoms of PTSD. She was having nightmares. She was getting like what you see on TV, those like fleeting memories kind of coming back, like your trauma is like kind of starting to remind you it's there. Umm, and so she tried to think back and she talked to police and said she was trying to get to the bottom of the story, give them as much information as she could. She said she believed there had been multiple attackers, at least two men, possibly three. They were white. They spoke with accents that Inna said may have been Romanian, maybe Hispanic, and Inna herself had a Ukrainian accent and wasn't fully fluent in English. So it was like hard to know if she would've picked up on someone else's accent.
Em: Anything.
Christine: Speaking in English, you know, if she would've known how to pinpoint that or place that. Right. So they weren't super sure if they should trust that.
Em: Umm, and what, and what city is this again?
Christine: Miami, Florida.
Em: Okay.
Christine: So yeah, they weren't sure how much of this was like real memory versus like, kind of just foggy filling in the blanks type stuff. And Inna said that someone had forced an alcoholic drink into her mouth. One of the attackers had a pillow over her face. They beat her.
Em: God.
Christine: Carried her downstairs and raped her in a vehicle. Umm, and it was really hard for her because she's telling all this and then they're kind of coming back and going, we're trying. But like, you know, she's like working so hard to try and give them anything she can and it's just not leading anywhere. Umm, very frustrating for them, but especially for her. Uh, and she had said, oh, they carried me downstairs. But looking through the camera footage, they would've seen somebody carrying her downstairs and putting her inside a vehicle that was just not on the camera footage. Investigators even went to her room where she had been, uh, staying and they looked everywhere for a sign of struggle. I'm sure they were looking for those toothpaste holes in the walls from that other story.
Em: I know. I'm like, where's, where's, where's Brennan? I need this guy.
Christine: Yeah I know he's not here yet, which is why things seem like they're not going anywhere. Umm, he needs to enter the picture. So they don't seem, see anything weird in her room. It looks like everything is in order. They look at the swipe history and the date of her hotel key. And they did notice that sometimes she took the elevator to her floor, but then there would be 10 to 15 minutes before she entered her hotel room.
Em: Interesting. Where the hell was she doing?
Christine: Weird. Right? So their first thought is, well, maybe she's a sex worker. Maybe she was visiting other people on the floor before heading to her room. And they made the unfortunate mistake of asking Inna whether she exchanged sex for money while she's trying to fucking like solve her case. And she's like, no. And she found that very painful, very irrelevant. She says, no, I'm not a sex worker. And hotel staff said, no, we know this woman. She stayed here for a while. She was not going to any other guest's rooms. She was very private, very quiet, like she would sometimes chit chat with hotel staff and other employees because she like didn't have anyone else to socialize with. But that's about it.
Christine: So everyone who spoke of Inna seemed to not paint her as that as a sex worker, seemed to not paint her as someone who was doing shady things and lying about it. Umm, and so they just could not get to the bottom of who on earth would do this and why. And Foote was stumped again. They had no leads, no motives. They couldn't explain how she.
Em: The toes were stubbed.
Christine: The toes were stubbed. And they were not interconnected ever again. Please God. Uh, they said we reached a dead end. It just didn't fit. So months past, no new leads. Now, uh, this poor girl has like her civil suit with the cruise line and that's like back burner now, 'cause she's like suddenly dealing with such a bigger thing.
Em: I know. It's like, I don't even care anymore.
Christine: Yeah. And so, oh boy. Oh boy. Imagine that hospital bill too. She better win that civil suit, man. Uh.
Em: Oh, my God.
Christine: 'Cause that's gonna be a pricey bill. Umm, so months pass, no new leads. Detective Foote said he wanted to have hope that like something new would come up, but it's just those chances were dwindling. So Inna and her attorney decided to file a civil lawsuit against the hotel. They're already firing, filing one against the, the cruise line. Let's go to the hotel.
Em: What's one more? Yeah.
Christine: What's one more? Yeah, what's one more? So they, all they knew is that someone was able to enter Inna's room without breaking in. They must have somehow accessed a key card if it wasn't George. You know? So the guards and the security cameras, which usually captured all activity, somehow missed her being taken and abducted out of the hotel. So Inna and her lawyer are like, somebody dropped the ball, we're gonna get to the bottom of it and file this lawsuit. So the hotel contacted their own law firm to defend it in the case because they knew like this would be bad news if they lost it. And the law firm reached out to none other than private detective Ken Brennan.
Em: Ugh. Thank God. I feel like he finally took a, I feel like he finally took a breath from his hotel scheme that, that last one. He went, oh, I'm just, you know, maybe, maybe I just stretch, take a walk. You know, I've, I've cracked the case. Let me, let me reward myself with a fun little smoothie.
Christine: Okay. It's a smoothie.
[laughter]
Em: And before he could even get to the smoothie, the phone rings and he goes oh, what now.
Christine: And it's like, cliche of like he sits back with his ice tea and he's like, ah. And then the phone rings and he is like, I'm on it, you know, at the end of the movie.
Em: Oh yeah. It's the, it's the superman complex of like, all right, let me unbutton my shirt and put the, put the unitard back on.
Christine: Just a minute.
Em: All right, let's go.
Christine: I will say this one was first. So this was like his first big case that got him on the map. So the room, The body in room 348 was, umm, was later, but still.
Em: Different times.
Christine: Umm, yeah. So they hired him. They said they hoped Ken could uncover what really happened and prove the hotel was not at fault. But because he's Ken and we love him, he's Kenough. I've never seen that movie, but I like to pretend I have. Umm, Ken said, no, no, I'm not here to prove you innocent or guilty. I'm here to find the truth. And so they said, fine, you're here to find the truth. Get to the bottom of it and...
Em: Go ahead, Vault truth finder.
Christine: Go ahead.
Em: Yeah.
Christine: Go gather that truth. And if it doesn't serve us, fine, but hopefully it will. So he said, I'll find out what happened. I'm not going to shade things to assist your client, but I will find out what the truth is. And of course he was very intrigued by this case because of the mystery of the whole, how did she get abducted? And he also believed that sexual cases are the worst type of crime because we love Ken. And yes, Ken, he says he's especially dedicated to solving sexual violence cases and catching sexual predators. So, get it, Ken. He assured Detective Foote...
Em: You go, Ken.
Christine: That he wanted to work on the case as a partner. And Detective Foote said, alright. So they teamed up and got to work.
Em: Great.
Christine: Ken quickly discovered that the computer clocks that recorded key swipe data ran 20 minutes ahead of the clock for the elevator cameras. And that explains the time gap between the clocks were dif, on different settings. So already.
Em: Got it.
Christine: He's like, that's out the window. Irrelevant. Next, next clue. And the security cameras he realizes are motion activated. So what he says is, let's try to sneak, let's have our detectives try to sneak past them and see if there's any way to avoid being detective detected. So they tried everything. They tried different patterns, they tried to walk slowly, I assume they tried to crawl and roll their way through, tried to like get past these without setting them off. But it was impossible, the slightest, they were so sensitive that the slightest motion would activate these cameras to record. And so that was another thing they thought. Okay, so someone's not sneaking.
Em: It's a good point.
Christine: Past the cameras. It's like, there's no way to do it. He just gets on the ground.
Em: I would've never even, you know, I'm glad he does because I couldn't have.
Christine: I know.
Em: I wouldn't have thought...
Christine: I would just already have a headache. I, I think I'd be like, okay, it's time for my smoothie. And they'd be like, you haven't done anything. I'm like, well, I'm gonna sit down and have a smoothie anyway. [laughter]
Em: Oh, I will tell you, for my, for my, umm, birthday, I bought a bicycle.
Christine: What?
Em: And... I know. I, well...
Christine: Who are you?
Em: Well, Allison is really into roller skating and I'm trying to find more ways.
Christine: Good for you.
Em: To find quality time with her.
Christine: And you, you have that beautiful area up there in Burbank.
Em: I know. Yeah. Burbank is very bikeable. Uh, it actually has a 74.
Christine: Yes.
Em: Uh walkability scale.
Christine: Oh, nice.
Em: Umm, and, uh, so, and Allison's big on rollerblading or roller skating. Jesus, she'll kill me if I say blading one more time. Roller skating. I'm team rollerblading. Whatever.
Christine: Me too, by the way.
Em: And umm, she, she has big plans to become a big old skater this year. So.
Christine: She's a skater girl.
Em: If she gonna be outside, I gotta be outside. Umm, I thought about not getting a bike and just doing the much cheaper going back to my skateboard routes from middle school, but I don't think I have that abilily anymore.
Christine: Oh, my friend. I was like, thank Christ. I would've had to intervene, I think. And not that I don't trust you. I too, I do think that you could...
Em: I don't.
Christine: Probably like do fine. It's just that one time you fall. We're too old now to be falling.
Em: Yeah. And I'm somehow, you know, knock on everything. I have never broken a bone. I don't need to.
Christine: Me neither.
Em: Start that now.
Christine: Oh my God. Is this our... Oh no.
Em: I've broken my ass bone quite a lot from falling.
Christine: Oh I broke my tooth.
Em: So maybe I.
Christine: With a popcorn. Does that count?
Em: That counts. Yeah. That's bad. Umm, like, I mean it's a bone.
Christine: Technically.
Em: And it broke, right? Yeah. Umm, anyway, so shout out to me learning to...
Christine: Well I'm proud of you, that's exciting.
Em: Ride a bike all over again.
Christine: I'll ride a bike with you. I'm not very good at it, but I can do it.
Em: Okay, then you're gonna have to, when Leona learns how to tricycle.
Christine: Oh God help me. She has been, uh, she discovered scooters the other day and I went, this is gonna end badly for everybody. Umm, alright. So they are realizing nobody is sneaking past these damn cameras. And he's thinking now, okay, maybe Inna was in a disguise. I love this guy. I know.
Em: Oh shit.
Christine: So fucking smart.
Em: That's so smart. I love Brennan.
Christine: Ken Brennan.
Em: Can you just do a whole series where you just cover Ken Brennan's stories?
Christine: He's like becoming I, and it's like, here's what I'll say. We love Ken Brennan. Unless he has done something cancelable and/or in the past future, present.
Em: Right. Right. Until further notice.
Christine: Until Further notice with full understanding that I've not researched this person very thoroughly. So that being said...
[laughter]
Em: Yeah. With what we know, we love him.
Christine: Go, Ken. We've done this before. We're like, go X, Y, Z. Okay. Not so hard on the praise for that one. Oops.
Em: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Christine: So he considered every, which I also love, every single person in this footage, a potential suspect. He didn't care. He's like women, men, anybody. So he only eliminates them when he's certain, certain, not just assuming, but certain. There's no way they could have been physically feasibly involved. So if somebody left the hotel, for example, before Inna got back from the gas station and then they didn't come back, Ken was like, well they're out.
Em: Okay.
Christine: Cross them off. Because they couldn't have been in the hotel when she was abducted. So anyone who entered the hotel but didn't leave again during this big period of her attack whenever that was, were also ruled out because they were still in the hotel and couldn't have abducted her outside of the hotel.
Em: What a smart man.
Christine: He is a smart man. So he is doing, uh, deduction, crossing them off. And I wrote here apparently far too late in my notes. Any ideas or theories at this point, Em? You already gave yours.
Em: Oh. Hmm. Yeah. Well, I do love the idea of maybe they're in disguise. My first...
Christine: Yeah, I mean... That was very creative.
Em: Because my... After watching Marishka every single day of my life, I do wonder if someone just like... In those 15 minutes where you can't see her, but it takes her from the elevator to the room...
Christine: Oh right.
Em: There's like a break in time. I'm wondering if somebody during one of those moments, like walked up to her and like at gunpoint said, "We're going outside, put these clothes on."
Christine: Hmm. Forced to disguise.
Em: And maybe looked like a married couple. Yeah. Maybe looked like a couple, so you wouldn't...
Christine: Yeah, and that must be...
Em: Or suitcase.
Christine: Hold that thought. So Ken began to suspect that Inna may have been removed from the hotel in someone's luggage.
Em: See? I think Ken Brennan and I could get a, a soda. He would be fed up if I... On the second soda, he'd be like, "I don't really want to be friends with you any more, but for the first so many minutes we would get along."
Christine: Do you know that I really... Because you would be making so many fucking puns about his job and his name? And he'd be like... And Detective Foote.
Em: I would keep like intentionally calling him Bren Kennan just to piss him off, just to see what would happen? He wouldn't like it.
Christine: [laughter] I'm brime craveller, Ken Brennan.
Em: [laughter] You understood, right Bren Kennan?
Christine: You get it, right? Can you write the intro to our, the, the, the foreword for our new book called Crime Travelers? Anyway, yeah, he would be over us very fast, but it seems like you guys are on the same page, so maybe you'd be an asset. Maybe you'd be that fun-loving sidekick that he wants to get rid of, but deep down, he really doesn't.
Em: Like and I would, in one episode only, I would be kicked out and he would realize how much he missed me.
Christine: This is for sure, part of our Crime Traveler series. Eva, can you write that down? Because this...
Em: Detective Apple Foote and Bren Kennan. Wait, Ken Brennan? I've lost it. I've lost all sense of reality, I don't know what's...
Christine: It remains to be seen, whether he signs off on giving us his life rights or whether we have to make him Bren Kennan and then pretend it's a different person.
Em: [laughter] Either way... Either way he'll be there whether or not he wants to be there.
Christine: Oh, yeah. He has no choice in the matter. No, no.
Em: Detective Apple, Apple Foote and Bren Kennan on the case and I'm Detective Apple Foote.
Christine: Oh are you? Oh, oh. [laughter] Wait a minute.
Em: Maybe I'm not detective yet. I'm just like a... I'm just like... I'm a junior detective.
Christine: Yeah, you're just a lovable sidekick. You're the, you're the one who, who wants to...
Em: He's teaching me the ropes.
Christine: Drive the squad car but you never get to. You know?
Em: I do mention it often. I'm like, "When do I get to flip the lights on?"
Christine: Yeah. And then one day, when, when he's like shit out of luck, guess who comes screeching down the alley with the flashlight, with a flashing light?
Em: It's my turn.
Christine: There's Em. Save the day.
Em: That's my moment. And then guess what? Then I take my disguise off, 'cause you thought it was me all along and I rip my human face mask off and it was you all along.
Christine: It was me? [laughter]
Em: Because...
Christine: What?
Em: I'm just trying to see you... [laughter] Isn't that a plot twist? You didn't see it coming.
Christine: I didn't. It was me all along.
Em: And then you're like, "But where has the real Detective Apple Foote been? I've been time travelling...
Christine: Crime traveling.
Em: This whole time, one might say. Okay, okay. Well, someone else has to write this cause it's too... It's too much.
Christine: Okay. Let's... Let's like put, maybe the peeling the face mask off on the back burner for now, but the rest I'm really loving. Umm.
Em: I do need that to come back at some point. I don't care how.
Christine: Maybe we could do an extra for the DVD that we can put it in there. How does that sound?
Em: Oh! No, I figured it out. You know what it is? 'Cause you thought I was the silly one the whole time, and you thought Bren Kennan was the big bad one. We both peel our faces off and we're actually each other and I was the smart one all along.
[laughter]
Christine: What? ! That's me and you're me?
[laughter]
Em: And then we do the Spiderman pointing meme.
Christine: Oh God. Okay.
Em: Wait a minute, wait a minute.
Christine: Let's put that... I love it, Em. I think let's put it in that box over there that we reserve for all our best ideas, umm, and then we can try coming up with something new, just for fun.
Em: I don't know if I, if you... I think you're saying the box with all my best ideas umm patronizingly...
Christine: Special box.
Em: Because I think it's padlocked.
Christine: It's super...
Em: And I think you don't let any of the ideas...
Christine: Well, it is shaped like trash can, but don't... Don't worry about that. That's just a coincidence. [laughter] It's actually a special, special box for all your best ideas.
Em: Okay. Full of lighter fluid. Yeah.
[laughter]
Christine: Yeah, just for later. Don't worry about it. Okay. So anyway, you and Ken realize, "Oh my gosh, someone has taken her." By the way, you realized it before Ken did. So whatever, but uh someone has taken her out.
Em: See? You pull the face off and I was the smart one all along.
Christine: You were Ken Brennan all along. So, you figured this out way before he did, and finally, after countless hours of looking at every effing camera, which honestly sounds a lot like what you do with our ghost footage when we go ghost hunting, so weirdly kind of the same job you guys are...
Em: I have the skills that he needs.
Christine: Yeah, really freakishly similar. It's starting to sound like... He finally settles on one particular man as a suspect. He's like, I think it's this motherfucker. So at 3:41, just as Inna's getting back from the gas station to call her mom, this mystery man, the suspect, engages her in conversation outside the elevator, and it's actually, I know we talked last week or maybe the week before about how 911 calls really freak me out, it's the same with security footage, when you see somebody walk up and start chit-chatting and you know what's gonna happen.
Christine: And the person just has no clue. Oh, it just... Ooh, it turns my skin... Ooh. So they're standing outside the elevator, there's footage of this online, this man walks up next to her, starts chit-chatting, and they both get on the elevator together.
Em: Mmmm.
Christine: At 5:28 AM, this is one hour and 47 minutes later, that man comes back down to the lobby, pulling behind him a large suitcase on wheels.
Em: Mm-hmm.
Christine: Now, I feel like we should probably mention the elephant in the room, which is the fact that... Thank God, we said last time. Now, I don't know how I feel about fucking suitcases with wheels.
Em: You make a good point.
Christine: Like then you covered that train story where the women put a child's body in a duffle. So I'm like, "Nobody's safe, I guess."
Em: Nobody's safe. The second you have a bag that can fit any sized person, that sized person is not safe.
Christine: That's, you're 100% right. Outlawed. They should all be outlawed.
Em: They should all be un-wheeled again.
Christine: Un-wheeled.
Em: Never mind. I don't want that.
Christine: Yeah, that's Em's idea. Em's... Vote Em, Mayor of Burbank.
Em: Look, only I can have wheeled luggage. Everyone else must suffer. That's how it goes.
[laughter]
Christine: It's just for you. Drop all your wheeled luggage off at Em's address and it'll be collected.
Em: Yeah, I'll take care of it.
Christine: They'll know what it means. Okay. So at 5:28 AM which is an hour and 47 minutes after they get off the elevator, or they get on the elevator the first time, he's down in the lobby pulling behind him a suitcase on wheels. And as the man exits the elevator, the suitcase gets stuck in that little divot, to the point... And he's a big guy. He has to turn around and tug it with both hands over the lip on the floor.
Em: Oh. She's heavy. Okay.
Christine: She's heavy. The suitcase, I mean, to be clear, not the person, the suitcase.
Em: Yeah. I see what I did there. Oops.
Christine: No, no, no. I didn't notice it for a minute either, but yeah. So she is presumably now inside the suitcase. This is why it is heavier than an average wheelie suitcase. It's getting stuck on items. So Ken is looking at this, he's going, "Whatever's in there, it's heavy." Less than an hour later, the man returns to the hotel with no suitcase and goes back to his room. Mm-hmm. That's very mysterious.
Em: Look, I'm sitting here on my big old throne right here. Me and my big fat head.
Christine: You are sitting...
Em: You already... I saw this...
Christine: Your giant head.
Em: I smelt it from a mile away.
Christine: Is balanced on top of all those wheeled suitcase, the mountain of wheeled suitcases you've taken from the people of Burbank. You're just sitting atop your mountain of wheelie suitcases with your big ass head. So Ken now does the math part, which probably wouldn't be you or me, but Ken's good at this. He measures the elevator doorway and he's able to use that footage and those measurements to determine the height of the suitcase. He then measures the width of the carpet in the lobby and...
Em: Wow.
Christine: Compares that to the suitcase. He's able to determine the luggage's width. Width? Yes, width, as well. He is a Ken in STEM. I'm so proud of him. [laughter] I love that for him. Umm...
Em: STEM Brennan.
Christine: I actually wrote he's a Ken in STEM. I don't... It... I don't... Must have been a moment in time.
Em: I love it.
Christine: Umm, by the dimensions he calculated the suitcase would definitely be large enough to fit Inna inside. So Ken's like, "Ding, ding, ding. I think this is our guy. I think this is our rapist and abductor that we're looking for." And he was especially concerned by how calm this man seemed, because if he really had raped Inna and beaten her nearly to death, put her in a suitcase, wheeled her through a hotel lobby, dumped her body, you'd think like he would enter the hotel being a little shaken up an hour later. But nah, he didn't seem even the slightest bit concerned. He wheeled the suitcase through the hotel out the door. Relaxed, confidence. Uh, Ken, of course, his first thought being "Not his first time."
Em: Nope.
Christine: Not his first time. And you know how Ken feels about sex offenders. He is not gonna have it. He is not gonna let this one rest. He is after this guy.
Em: Because he's Elliot Stabler.
Christine: Yes.
Em: Well, yeah. And also I feel like I... I feel like I would've been able to tell umm early on that this wasn't this guy's first time. If he didn't look fucking nervous as shit with this big suitcase walking out of that a hotel like.
Christine: With a body inside it.
Em: If I had a body inside of a suitcase, you would be seeing me on the camera stopping every five seconds to like catch my breath out of having a full panic attack.
Christine: And to say... And to look in the cameras and go, "I don't have a body in this suitcase." Is that what you're wondering?
Em: Yeah. No.
Christine: Oh my God. Totally understandable mistake, but I do not have a body in the suitcase.
Em: I didn't do anything wrong, but also don't wonder where my luggage is.
Christine: Yeah. Also, I'm like, totally gonna come back without it, but it's for a good reason and it's not about the body. Yeah sure.
Em: Yeah. But I won't tell that reason either. So, but I know, I would think immediately this can't be his first time because he seems way too cool to the pressure.
Christine: That's exactly what he thought. He was like, "I'm convinced this is... He's a repeat offender." And that definitely comes into play. So we'll get to that. Umm, Ken presents his theory to the detectives, and there was a bit of doubt at first because the man in the footage was alone and he was black. And Inna had described these white assailants repeatedly, like multiple white assailants. But again, like we have to remember, grain of salt, Inna had suffered very violent head trauma. And she was trying so hard to fill in the blanks that perhaps she had grabbed onto the wrong details. Perhaps she was remembering, you know, some other event or occurrence or some other people she had encountered. Umm, and her descriptions of her attackers changed several times over her telling. So they couldn't really rely on that. So this was a better bet, umm just rationally and with all the clues, all the facts in front of them.
Em: Sure.
Christine: Than like her memory, which was a little foggy. So even early on, Detective Foote had believed that Inna's memories, like weren't really reliable. So he was doubtful enough to go ahead with Ken and say, "All right, you know what, follow this lead. I think you're onto something. Now you gotta find out who this guy is." So Ken, with the go ahead, he isolates and observes every single moment that this man appears on any of the hotel cameras while he's staying there that weekend. And as he's going through this footage, he realizes this man has had several conversations with one particular man who seems to be an acquaintance of his, if not a friend, perhaps an acquaintance, coworker. And this guy seemed to appear regularly on tape with him and they're just chatting. So, you know, with no other clues to go on, Ken is looking through this footage. This is where Christine pushes Em out of the chair and says, "My turn, my turn." Because he's going through the footage and he sees that the man has a logo on his shirt that reads Mercury.
Em: Oh, immediately I would give... I would, I would step out of the chair. I'd be like, "Christine, you are... Your turn."
Christine: This is my one, my one skill, I can bring, I don't even know what a rhombus is, [laughter], but I do know how to track down a logo and a T-shirt. I do know how to track someone down. Here, Em, I'm gonna send you the logo. I'm curious if you recognize it, because I saw it and went, "I know that logo." But I think that's only me. Like, I don't think that, this is not like a normal one. I think people would look at and go, "Oh, I know what company that is."
Em: Okay.
Christine: So it says mercury.
Em: I mean, I think... It says Mercury. I think because you primed me, I think I know where... Is it like an internet or power company or something?
Christine: Nope.
Em: Like a utility company.
Christine: I only know this because of my stepdad. It's Mercury Marine. They make boats and boat parts.
Em: Oh. No, I would have not known that.
Christine: My stepdad is all about Mercury Marine. We have these frigging stickers all over our house. So this would be my one weird... I feel like it's like a forced plot point. Like you had to have seen me somewhere else in the earlier in the episode, like being annoyed that my stepdad has so many stickers everywhere about boats. And then it would come back now where I'm like, "I've seen this, that logo before." You know, some bullshit like that.
Em: I love when we write our scripts together.
Christine: And then never write them. We just say them out loud and they're so nonsensical.
Em: Well, we wrote them. We just wrote them.
Christine: Somebody write that down. So Mercury Marine. He doesn't know this because Ken can't know everything. Sometimes I have to know one thing that Ken doesn't know. And it's just this one time. Umm so this Mercury Marine symbol, he sees that and on the back of the shirt, it says Verado. So he searches these words. He finds that Verado is a type of boat engine made by boat manufacturer Mercury Marine. So Ken contacts Mercury Marine directly and says, "Where would one acquire this t-shirt from this scary surveillance footage?" Don't worry why I'm asking. And Mercury Marine told him, "Oh, those t-shirts specifically were distributed in a food court at a recent boat show that took place in Miami the same weekend of Inna's attack."
Em: Okay. Well, that's a very specific answer.
Christine: Specific.
Em: But that also sounds like now our poor guy has to go through more CCTV.
Christine: Always. And that's the burden, you know, that he faces every day.
Em: It's like, "Okay, what footage am I watching today? Where am I following?"
Christine: "Now, how many people do I have to follow on?" Yeah. Oh, your eyes. He needs to wear glasses if anyone does, you know.
Em: I guess you can just watch from... It can't be that hard. You watch from the beginning of when that company gets there with the shirts. And then when they leave and then just anyone who puts their hand on a shirt, that's all I have to care about. But that's still probably like a hundred people.
Christine: Well maybe. Or what if at the... Okay, here, yes. I mean, yes, you're right.
Em: Oh, but then it could be gifted to someone or like some, someone grabbed it for their boyfriend.
Christine: Yup. If somebody trade sizes. Who knows? Yeah. So, but that's not even the angle they go, right? Because here's what, here's what happened. Ken contacted human resources for... Because remember they were given out at a food court.
Em: Uh-huh.
Christine: He contacts human resources for Center Plate, which is the business that provided food, the catering company that provided food at the boat show. And umm...
Em: Oh, right. He has... Right. I'm so stupid. He literally already has this guy on other footage. He can just show that footage to these people.
Christine: So he describes the men to the people at this Center Plate who ran the food at this boat show and Center Plate says, "Oh yeah, we recognize this guy." I mean, to be fair, he's like, I think a six foot tall black man who's like very large. So it's like, yeah, people noticed him. And so they said, "Oh yeah, we definitely... He was one of our employees that day." And when Ken starts canvassing other employees, he described the same guy and other employees described him too. And what's even better is one of them said, "Oh yeah, that that's Mike Jones."
Em: Oh, ding, ding, ding.
Christine: Ding, ding, ding. So upon returning to the original hotel evidence, PI Ken... Can I call you that Ken? PI Ken?
Em: I prefer Detective Apple Foote.
Christine: My mistake. Uh noted that a man named Michael Lee Jones, Mike Jones, had checked into the Airport Regency Hotel that weekend that Inna's... That the boat show took place and Inna was attacked.
Em: And did the room happen to be in that weird little hutch that was 15 minutes...
Christine: No. So remember that was because the cameras were just delayed. So that 15 minutes is out the window. Irrelevant.
Em: Okay. Got it. Damn.
Christine: So Detective Foote got in contact with Michael Jones. So now Ken is like, "Hey, Detective Foote, here's this information. Reach out to this guy. I think he might be our guy. So Detective Foote reaches out, tells him he's investigating an incident that occurred in Miami during the weekend of a boat show he was working. And Michael said, "Yeah, yeah, I was working at that boat show. I would love to meet up and be of assistance." So already Detective Foote is like, "Well, that's weird. I feel like he wouldn't just be so willing to come down to the station and answer questions if he was involved," and he had his doubts.
Christine: And then when he met him in person, he was only further convinced that this guy might be innocent because he seemed really calm, really collected. And Detective Foote is asking him these questions, trying to trip him up. And finally, Detective Foote is like, "You're being investigated in a violent rape." He said, "Look, I've got a girl who was raped that week. Did you have anything to do with it?" And Michael seemed horrified. He said, "Of course he had nothing to do with it." And Detective Foote really felt like he was telling the truth. And he asked whether Michael would provide a DNA sample to rule him out. And he's like, "Absolutely."
Em: Oh, damn. Okay, well. Well now what?
Christine: So Michael agreed right away. Detective Foote was like, "Ken, this is the wrong guy. There's no way." The DNA comes back. It's a match.
Em: What? So he was just really good at calling a bluff. He thought he was calling a bluff.
Christine: He thought he was just being smooth, I guess. But they got their guy.
Em: Okay. That's... All right. I feel like I want an explanation as to why he thought he wasn't so fucked.
Christine: Well, uh I don't know if I can give you one, except remember that this wasn't his first rodeo, so to speak, as far as committing these violent crimes. So he seems... Remember when we called him a little too, too calm walking through that hotel lobby with a body in a suitcase? I think he's just trying to play them how he knows to to just be polite and accommodating and friendly. You know, meanwhile, George is like, "I don't trust the police." And they're like, "This guy did it." You know. So maybe he thinks he's doing something.
Christine: And Detective Foote really believed him until Detective Foote put his foot right back into his mouth because turns out, yeah, this is a perfect match. He should have waited. He should have waited to tell Ken we've got the wrong guy. Umm but he said, "We've got the wrong guy". And then the lab was like, "It's the right guy."
Christine: So he's arrested. Mike Jones was arrested. He's charged with kidnapping, rape, other felonies, and Michael claimed that Inna... Of course, this is his excuse, "She's a sex worker, it was consensual," and that is why his DNA was on her.
Christine: But he adamantly denied having anything to do with the attack. He said she was perfectly fine when he left her hotel room, and prosecutors were like, "Well, shit, we don't have cameras to prove any of this. She doesn't remember... " Like this is just such a... It's getting more complicated to try and pin it on this guy if he's lying. And he had been so compliant and calm, they were like, "We're worried." It's not that they didn't believe her. Like they knew that this was the attacker and that she had been brutally beaten by this man, they weren't saying, "Oh no, she's really a sex worker." No, no, that's...
Christine: They really did believe her, but they were worried that in court, it would be hard to convince a jury that this like calm kind man was this violent, brutal attacker. So they were like, "We need more than just this kind of he said-she said situation." So ultimately, Michael agreed to a reduced sentence and his case didn't even go before a jury because of that. So he pleaded guilty to sexual assault, and it was only a two-year prison sentence. That's it.
Em: Wow. That's it?
Christine: He beat her almost to death and dumped her on the side of the road.
Em: So is he out now?
Christine: So, there's a little bit of a footnote to this story. Inna was upset, but of course she's kind of unfamiliar with the US Justice system. She doesn't know that this is just perfectly normal. No.
Em: Yup, unfortunately.
Christine: She felt like there was nothing she could do. She wasn't a citizen, there wasn't much power she held here, but Ken was like, "Nah. Nah, this guy has done it before. He's a serial rapist, and I don't let serial rapists get two years and walk out." He's like "Absolutely... "
Em: That's right, Bren Kennan, you tell 'em.
Christine: Absolutely not. He said, "He has surely hurt other women before we are going to nail this guy." So ultimately, Michael's DNA was entered into an FBI database which revealed that, yes, he matched DNA collected in two other rape cases, which took place in New Orleans in 2003, Colorado Springs in '05. And after that New Orleans attack, there was this composite sketch that have been drawn way back in 2003, and it was like pretty spot-on for what he looked like.
Christine: So Michael then went to trial for multiple assault charges in Colorado. He was sentenced to 24 years to life in prison. Then in 2015, he pleaded guilty to forcible rape in Louisiana and was sentenced to an additional 45 years in prison, and Inna said in an ABC News special that she is just happy that Michael cannot hurt anyone else in the future. And that's the story of the woman in the suitcase, as some people call it. Umm or the story...
Em: I was gonna applaud your storytelling until you said...
Christine: Inna, Inna, yeah Inna Budnytska. Umm and I'm so glad that for... I mean it's rare that we have a story where there's a survivor at the end or not, that she survives, you know, and, and nobody's killed, but...
Em: Well survived and solved.
Christine: Survived and solved. That's so true. That's so true. Yeah.
Em: Diamond in the rough.
Christine: So I'm...
Em: Well good story telling. I love a mystery and I love a solved mystery and I love...
Christine: There's something I have into lately, about these like Sherlock type. I was like... Literally Saoirse was like, "Well, you just covered that body in room 348. Do you think it's too soon?" And I was like, "No, I wanna do it tomorrow. Give me another locked door mystery, I want my Agatha Christy fix."
Em: Yeah. I, I, I want more Ken, Ken cases.
Christine: I'm telling you, Ken like... I feel like we need to have him on the show or something. We need to do like a little mini...
Em: That'd be a fun Patreon thing. Tell us everything...
Christine: Wouldn't that be cool or like a youtube, a youtube interview or something.
Em: Oh yeah, that'd be fun.
Christine: Unless he's canceled. Please remember, my umbrella caveat, 'cause I don't really know much about this guy, but...
Em: He would also be fun until he starts talking about every miserable thing...
Christine: And then he's like, "This isn't fun. My job's not fun, it's terrible." And we'd be like," Right, we do know that." Sorry.
Em: Yeah, sorry. Okay, well, great. Well, if you... Speaking of Patreon, if you would like to hear us continue our ramblings, you can do so by going over to Patreon and we will be doing an after dark and...
Christine: After dark and for what it's worth by the way, we do... We have really been keeping them usually in the, in the vein of true crime and paranormal. So it's not necessarily just... Sometimes it's just rambling, but there are a lot of... We do like little quizzes and stuff like that. Personality quizzes, those are always disappointing. [laughter]
Em: That's a crime. Yeah, and other than that, we've got our tour coming up, our, our fall tour, so please go check that out, try to come to a city near by you, and we've got our book coming out in September.
Christine: Oh, and we're doing a TalkShopLive, which is like a live signing, where you can order a signed book. Umm that's happening June 22nd. So if you catch this uh the day it comes out, that will be Saturday, this coming Saturday. Umm and so we're gonna do that online, it'll be really fun, we're gonna be giving out, I think, like some, some goodies and some, answering questions from you guys about the book, so that'll be fun.
Em: And uh... Yeah, I hope everyone had fun. Happy birthday.
Christine: Oh and come see us live.
Em: Yeah, come see us live. Happy birthday and umm next time I see you...
Christine: Happy birthday. Now it's about time I heard it. Thank you.
Em: Next time I see you, the three of us can all get together [2:09:33.3] ____.
Christine: Oh, excellent. And I'll buy us bagels and make sure that they don't get lost on the way.
Em: Great, okay, it sounds like we all got a plan. And...
Christine: That's.
Em: Why.
Christine: We.
Em: Drink.
