E381 Drunk on Leaves and Resurrecting the Information SuperHighway
TOPICS: THE MONGOLIAN DEATH WORM, GREG FLENIKEN
Illustration of the Mongolian Death Worm
Illustration of the Mongolian Death Worm
Greg Fleniken
It's episode 381 and we're back on our cryptid bullshit! This week Em brings us the wild tale of the Mongolian Death Worm. Then Christine covers the tragic and bizarre case of Greg Fleniken aka "the body in room 348". And please tell us we're elegantante... and that's why we drink!
We're going back on tour! Don't miss out on our brand new live show coming to ya this fall! andthatswhywedrink.com/live
Transcript
[music]
Em Schulz: Look at sweet Christine and her little Harry Potter glasses.
Christine Schiefer: I know. They're blue light glasses. I don't even think, I don't even know if these do anything or work, but they make me feel smarter.
Em Schulz: You... And magical. You look very magical.
Christine Schiefer: Thank you. How are you doing Em? I miss you.
Em Schulz: I miss you. I, uh, I feel like so much has happened and nothing's happened at all since we last recorded, where like, I've been doing a lot of physical exertion.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: Umm, not by choice. Well, I guess by choice, but not like, in a fun way. Umm, I, I've been doing a lot of cleaning, like to, like, Allison is not here. [laughter] Cue surprise. Umm.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: What else is new? Uh, but, so I'm trying to like, you know, get things cleaned up before either she gets back or before we start really like moving. And, umm, so I've been doing a lot of like rearranging and pulling things out and trying to like come up with piles to get rid of stuff. Umm, on top of that, our friend Christine, not this Christine, uh, not Harry Potter, but, umm, [chuckle] we have a friend Christine. She's moving. And like the first time in several years, I had a friend say, can you come over and help me move outta my apartment?
Christine Schiefer: No.
Em Schulz: And I hadn't...
Christine Schiefer: We're too told for that shit now. Come on.
Em Schulz: I had a lot of fun, but I was, like the next day, my body hurt a lot and I was, I was just like, man, I don't think I ever felt like this.
Christine Schiefer: You don't even drink beer. You can't even like be paid in a six pack of beer. Like that sucks.
Em Schulz: And I paid for the pizza. I [laughter] was like... I do.
Christine Schiefer: Hey, wait a minute on. Christine, you are a genius. Whatever you're doing, it's working.
Em Schulz: She just batted some eyes at me. You know, I'm a sucker. All my friends have just like...
Christine Schiefer: She does, she does that.
Em Schulz: The best eyes. And, umm, but I, yeah, I don't know. I just, I got swooped into it. I really, I mean, I didn't really care what I'm doing. I just wanted to like make the memory with her. But then the next day I was like, wow, that was, the memory was nice and now I'm, now I'm experiencing it all over again. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Umm, so I'm just, I need to do a big stretch. I think that's where I'm at today.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, that's nice.
Em Schulz: Umm, what about you? How are you? Are you stretchy?
Christine Schiefer: Uh, no. I'm just would rather not move at all. But I will say I'm very excited. The reason I drink this week is because I hope, are we announcing this yet? When do we announce it? Today?
Em Schulz: Yay.
Christine Schiefer: We're going on tour.
Em Schulz: Okay. Yes, we're going on tour. Uh, it's too late. Eva's not here today to tell us no, we're going on tour.
Christine Schiefer: I thought, I thought you said yes. That's why I went forward. But you were not saying yes. Were you?
Em Schulz: I was trying to figure out what day this comes out, but I think it comes out.
Christine Schiefer: When do we announce the tour?
Em Schulz: Monday.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: Three days from now.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Oh, okay. So yeah, we're, it's that.
Em Schulz: Okay, great.
Christine Schiefer: We're going on tour. Okay. Folks, we're so excited.
Em Schulz: We're going on tour.
Christine Schiefer: And we have so many random cities. Like that's my most excited part is that we're going to places we've, some places that we've never been before. We're doing some repeats of course, but...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, we're doing some, we're doing some real randoms, which I can't really...
Em Schulz: Real randoms.
Christine Schiefer: Freaking Lawrence, Kansas we're coming for you. Isn't that wild?
Em Schulz: Which I hear is actually a great time. So...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Maybe there's a reason.
Christine Schiefer: It's college town.
Em Schulz: You know, so with our, our booking agent, is that his official title?
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm. I think. Andrew?
Em Schulz: The guy who creates our tour. [laughter] Uh, yeah. We, he'd send us a bunch of cities and we're like, I don't know what half of these are about, but there's, there's gotta be a reason to 'em. So let's see how this goes.
Christine Schiefer: We were like, what's Iowa City, Iowa? But hello. We're coming. Umm, so let, let me just listen. We, there's gonna be a promo. So you probably already heard this folks, but we're going to New York, New Jersey, Tarrytown, New York, which I think is Sleepy Hollow, right?
Em Schulz: It's Sleepy Hollow. Yeah. That one makes a a little sense to me.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, that one makes sense. Uh, Portland, Maine, Portsmouth, New Hampshire, Madison, Wisconsin, Iowa City, Iowa, Springfield, Missouri, Lawrence, Kansas, Dallas, Austin. I'm excited to go back to Texas. Uh, Atlanta, Charleston, which I'm really excited about. Uh, San Francisco and San Diego. I can't wait.
Em Schulz: And uh this is for the...
Christine Schiefer: The fall.
Em Schulz: Fall.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: And then we're, and then in the spring, we'll, we'll put out other cities eventually, but for now, this is the first half of a whole tour, so.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: And we have, we have no idea where else we'll be heading. And apparently we're going to some random as hell places. So, uh, don't wait for your [laughter], your, uh, your big city. Just come, come hang out with us in some tiny spaces.
Christine Schiefer: If there's somewhere that you wanna go, I would just, I would just scoop it up 'cause, because I barely know where we're going in the fall, let alone like where we'll be going in the spring. Umm, and if we're not coming to your town, do not fret. 'Cause I will be also going through the summer to several towns with my brother doing Beach Too Sandy, where we read excellent. Like one star reviews of all these different towns. So you know, if we're missing you there 'cause we're doing a Cincinnati show and a Columbus show and some other towns. So come see me there.
Em Schulz: Is Ports... Is Portsmouth, New Hampshire where we had the snowpocalypse situation?
Christine Schiefer: It seems like it would be nearby 'cause right, because I don't that it can't be that big of a place, this state of New Hampshire.
Em Schulz: Let's just hope that it doesn't snow this time around. That's all we can hope for with New Hampshire.
Christine Schiefer: I really hope that in August or whatever month we're going [laughter], it's not snowing. [laughter] We'll see, I can't promise anything. Uh, Em, but I'm, if there is snow, I'm getting a all-wheel drive or, or just not going or snow going. I dunno. We'll see.
Em Schulz: I never got my Dartmouth gear, so, uh, that's, we've got a whole new reason.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, that's right.
Em Schulz: Got a whole new reason to be over in New Hampshire.
Christine Schiefer: Yes. We'll be there. We'll be near, what is it? Exeter, right? It's in Exeter?
Em Schulz: Sure. I don't remember.
Christine Schiefer: Where's Dartmouth?
Em Schulz: But I'm very excited specifically for Tarrytown on principle. I saw that one pop up and I went...
Christine Schiefer: It was in Hanover, my bad.
Em Schulz: Oh. Well him in New Hampshire. You know what? I usually make a week of a trip anyway so.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. It's all you'll find. You'll cover your bases. You'll hit them all.
Em Schulz: I think so.
Christine Schiefer: But yeah, Tarrytown will be fun. That's our first, and it's a new show, folks, so if you've been to these last few years, like it's a totally new show that by the way, we have not even done yet. So like we don't even know yet what's gonna happen.
Em Schulz: We don't even if it's gonna be good, we'll see. We'll see.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: No, it's gonna be good. Shut up Em. It's gonna be great.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: But we are gonna live in total terror until we have it ready to go. So, umm.
Em Schulz: We should call it Terrortown.
Christine Schiefer: We call it Terrortown. Umm. That's it. Anyway, that's why I drink. But I'm ready to, I'm ready to party, Em. Do you wanna tell me a story or do we have anything else to cover?
Em Schulz: I don't think we've, oh, uh, this is just another casual reminder that we have a book coming out.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: Um, and pre-order sales are very important to us uh when it comes to like where we land on the, the list, the bestseller list. Uh. If we end up on a list.
Christine Schiefer: Or if we land up. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Not to say like, I, we've already been warned uh about the...
Christine Schiefer: The first book when it made the bestseller list our own agent manager said, this was really a surprise to us. And we said, yeah, no kidding. But I mean, I'm glad...
Em Schulz: Us too.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah us too. But like, thanks a lot for all your confidence. But then this time around they were like, hey, just so you know, it's even more competitive now. So don't get your hopes up. And I was like, honestly, they're never up. Em and I don't have our hopes up. We leave our hopes on the floor because if something exciting happens, we get to celebrate. So don't worry. We don't have our hopes up, but we do appreciate any pre-order sales. It really does help us a lot to get it kind of out there.
Em Schulz: I do say like, oh, if, oh, it helps us where we land on the list. I think I'm saying that in a manifesting way. I don't actually, my, my expectations are low for us.
Christine Schiefer: Let's just say we've set our expectations. And I would say also, Em, you and I are very excited that the cover of this new book says New York Times bestselling author. So who gives a shit if this one makes it? We're all ready... We got that title.
Em Schulz: It's very cool.
Christine Schiefer: It's on the cover.
Em Schulz: I will be bragging about it over the holidays.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. As you should be you should put it under everyone's tree, in everyone's stocking.
Em Schulz: Anyway. Th-thank you in advance if you have already um pre-ordered. But if you would like to help us um with our numbers, then you can pre-order. Also, if you just want to read a really funny book, you can pre-order.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, we're really proud of this one. I'll be honest. We're really proud of it. I think it's very funny.
Em Schulz: I rag on Christine quite a lot in the sides of the book.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, it's like, it's like a lot of banter in there this time around.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Um. Okay. So anyway, please go check out our book. Uh. I think that's all we've got. Oh, do you want to pitch your, your tour?
Christine Schiefer: My Beach too Sandy?
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, sure. Yeah. So we're just doing 12 different cities, which is the first like real tour we've ever done. Um. We're doing DC again at the Improv. We're doing um a bunch of towns. Seattle and Portland are already sold out, which is exciting, um. None of the other ones are so...
Em Schulz: Portland and Seattle has always been kind to us, so I'm not surprised that uh...
Christine Schiefer: They are. It's that, it's that uh d-demographic really gets us, you know? And so yeah, that one, that one was easy peasy. The rest of the towns are a little more uphill battle. So yeah, check it out. Every town we go to, we read one-star reviews of your town and places around. It's really fun. Um. And we have a good time. Sometimes Em shows up. That's my always my little like teaser, even without Em's consent.
Em Schulz: Like a little, like a little, yeah, a little uh prairie dog or something.
Christine Schiefer: Em just pops up. Yeah. Em just like woodchucks on, on in, and every now and then Em gets like a whole signing uh autograph line going in the aisle, which is really fun too, because I get to just watch.
Em Schulz: I don't mean to, but it does happen.
Christine Schiefer: No, no but... No I mean, I know you don't mean to, but for me, it's delightful because Alexander and I are like, phew, now we can go to the bathroom and no one can see us. We can sneak past everyone.
Em Schulz: As long as you're okay with it. I just don't want to, if you ever want me to shut it down, I'll shut it down because it's your show, not mine so.
Christine Schiefer: Uh I'd prefer it if you just keep...
Em Schulz: My mom would disagree. She would say...
Christine Schiefer: Oh yeah, as she should. I would keep...
Em Schulz: Because she'll be my, she'll be my plus one and she will want a line, for sure.
Christine Schiefer: Right, yeah. She wants a line. She has her own line, quite frankly. She can shut yours down and keep hers going. That's fine too. Um.
Em Schulz: Uh. Okay, I'm ready to tell you about a cryptid this week, Christine. And...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, it's been a while, I think, since the last cryptid.
Em Schulz: Um. I think it has too. I went on a on a bit of a ghost-heavy track, which I like. I would like to keep it primarily haunted things, but every now and then I like to sprinkle in a what-the-fuck thing. And...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah we love a, we love a every now and then, yeah, spice it up.
Em Schulz: A, a casual what? You know, something like that. Okay, so here we're going to talk about the Mongolian death worm.
Christine Schiefer: "Gasp." Say it ain't so.
Em Schulz: Oh, well, I will not go, turn the lights off, carry me home. I've been listening to a lot of emo music lately.
Christine Schiefer: Mongolian death worm.
Em Schulz: Which sounds emo, by the way.
Christine Schiefer: Sure does.
Em Schulz: It sounds like someone gave themselves that nickname to look cooler in school, but everyone's like, okay, death worm. I bet you're not that, not that big. It's okay.
Christine Schiefer: All right, Peter, we know your real name. Stop calling yourself Mongolian death worm.
Em Schulz: So before we can talk about the Mongolian death worm, we have to talk about its cousin, the Indus worm. Um. But just to give you an idea of where we're heading, did you ever see the movie Tremors? It was like a sci-fi movie in the '90s.
Christine Schiefer: No.
Em Schulz: It's about giant worms attacking people from underground. Which is...
Christine Schiefer: Do they have big teeth?
Em Schulz: Yeah. Which is exactly what a Mongolian death worm is pretty much.
Christine Schiefer: I can kind of picture it. I think I've seen pictures from, from those movies. Yeah.
Em Schulz: I'm thinking that death worms, like the lore of them, is exactly the inspiration for this movie and that was it.
[overlapping conversation]
Christine Schiefer: You're probably right. It feels pretty spot on.
Em Schulz: Yeah uh... And in modern days, if someone's like, well, it's a death worm, according to PBS, it is a giant underground worm that comes up from the earth to attack its prey, a la Tremors.
Christine Schiefer: But not a real one. PBS, right? PBS?
Em Schulz: Uh. There's a, there's a show called Monstrum and it talks about different monster folklore.
Christine Schiefer: I was like, what kind of fucking PBS programming is this? Because I thought PBS was educational and now you're telling me they're talking about death worms. Okay. You got me a little nervous.
Em Schulz: Uh. As far as I know, I don't think there's actually death worms, certainly not to the size and grandeur of the worms I'm talking about today.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Gotcha.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Not um big Godzilla-sized snakes.
Christine Schiefer: Man eating. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Um. But yeah, so I guess the, the official definition is that a death worm would be soft-bodied, limbless, and invertebrate and moves by crawling and lives partially under dirt and is a threat to humans. Okay. There's lots of qualifications there.
Christine Schiefer: Wow. Okay.
Em Schulz: Origins of these worms date back to um folklore from hundreds of years ago. An example of that is the Indus worm, who is has his own legends from up to like 1500 years ago. Um comes from the Indus River, which is 1800 miles long and flows through the Himalayas. And in five, in the year five, no, the year four.
Christine Schiefer: At that point, it's all the same, Em. Was it December of four or January of five? It's really hard to say.
Em Schulz: In the 5th century BCE. So even further back.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Okay.
Em Schulz: A Greek historian wrote that in this river, in the Indus River lived a giant white maggot.
Christine Schiefer: Ew.
Em Schulz: This maggot was so big that apparently a 10-year-old could wrap their arms around it and like specifically a 10-year-old.
Christine Schiefer: Could but like...
Em Schulz: Would?
Christine Schiefer: Would, should not please.
Em Schulz: Also, why 10?
Christine Schiefer: Why?
Em Schulz: Like, I was this size at 10, so like, obviously you're wrong.
Christine Schiefer: So you don't count. Yeah. I feel like that seems like not a good measurement. Like if I had a 10-year-old and someone wrote that down in that time period, I'd be like, we're staying indoors until you turn 11. I'm worried about why, why he knows this. This weird man.
Em Schulz: It's like, is the 10-year-old the only one who survived? What about an 8-year-old? What about...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Not, they're not, they don't have the grip strength.
Em Schulz: Or what if there's only one person who was dumb enough to try it and it happened to be a 10-year-old? So that's the only frame of reference we have.
Christine Schiefer: I mean, that fits. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Somehow there was also the description of this maggot being 10 feet wide. So now I'm thinking, okay, is is it one foot per child that they're measuring by?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. What kind of fucking wingspan does this 10-year-old have? Okay.
Em Schulz: Yeah. That's a great point.
Christine Schiefer: So weird.
Em Schulz: So this historian who wrote about this maggot that lives in the Inus River was...
Christine Schiefer: Okay, historian in quotes. I'm sorry, I just have to say it now. Who the fuck is this? Who wrote this? Is this?
Em Schulz: Someone from year four? Negative four.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. But it's not like Plato or some shit, like it's just some random.
Em Schulz: We don't know.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. So I'm just gonna say historian, quote unquote. Okay.
Em Schulz: A guy who maybe saw a maggot, I don't know. He could have been drunk on like leaves or something back then.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Oh, that's probably what it was. Maybe he was 10 years old. He was like, I'm just writing this for a school project. I'm not a historian.
Em Schulz: He just went as a 10-year-old this is how would have help onto it.
Christine Schiefer: I could hold onto a giant worm.
Em Schulz: Uh. It was around 10 feet wide. It would spend its days hiding in the sun, uh hiding from the sun in the water and soil. It would just tuck itself under the water in the dirt. And then at night it would come out and it would hunt very large creatures that included like camels and oxen and horses. So, um so that was kind of the, the whole thing. It was just that it was essentially nocturnal and during the day it would hide out in the dirt. It was also supposedly, this feels like either something a 10-year-old came up with or someone who's drunk on leaves. Apparently the worm only had two teeth. One on its top jaw, one on its bottom jaw. And I'm like in like a, in like a redneck way or like, was it just like the whole row of teeth all connected like as just one big dumb tooth.
Christine Schiefer: Ew. Ew, Yeah. Are they pointy? 'cause then that seems like a useless type of tooth or is like one sharp and one's flat so that it can like.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Are they both sharp? I, because then if they're both sharp, like I need to know how big they are. Is it the size of a normal tooth or literally is it like a, a row of teeth as one big tooth?
Christine Schiefer: That's horrible. I hope it's not one big tooth like that. That's not good for me.
Em Schulz: I feel like there's like some uncanny valley where like there's an AI man who like only has one.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. It's because like a AI can't do like a faces or like hands correctly.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: So they always get that freaky, freaky look. Yeah. I feel like.
Em Schulz: Freaky mouth one.
Christine Schiefer: One, one tooth on top and bottom is not good.
Em Schulz: Well, apparently that's what this thing had going on. It was uh one on its top jaw, one on its bottom jaw. And apparently I think it actually was pretty flat. I mean, maybe it was sharp enough to like first the grip of it, but it, I think they were kind of dull and the jaw alone was the real weapon. And these teeth would catch somebody. Like it would, it would jump out of the dirt. It would hunt and grab somebody and then it would drag them back into the water.
Christine Schiefer: "Gasp."
Em Schulz: Um. This worm apparently would eat every single part of its prey, but the intestines, I don't know why, there's no reason for it.
Christine Schiefer: That makes no sense, but okay. Um wow.
Em Schulz: It's like, the colon is great. Intestines, yuck. Um. The eye is great.
Christine Schiefer: I think colon is part of the intestines. Right. I guess then you're getting intestines.
Em Schulz: Well call Blaise in.
Christine Schiefer: Well, I was gonna say as someone with an intestinal problem and my colon's definitely the issue, I think probably it's not eating the colon, which is probably for the best.
Em Schulz: Is the bladder?
Christine Schiefer: No.
Em Schulz: Because I think about like, if this worm were to eat something and it's like, mm I don't want the parts that taste like waste, but you're eating the bladder. I guess that's sterile.
Christine Schiefer: I don't think it's sterile. I mean...
Em Schulz: Well the blood, the pee is sterile, but not the bladder.
Christine Schiefer: The kidneys are are getting all the toxins out that thing's full of toxins. Don't eat that.
Em Schulz: But its eating the kidneys?
Christine Schiefer: It's full of bile. Maybe he likes it.
Em Schulz: Maybe he's into it but not the intestines. I really...
Christine Schiefer: Well that has poop in it.
Em Schulz: I feel like you still need need to to explain yourself.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: I guess so. But I, I mean eyes you're fine with eating eyes?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. I'm fine with eating. Oh, you're not asking me sorry.
Em Schulz: I mean, not that a, I think a worm has an opinion, but um I'm just...
Christine Schiefer: Apparently it does. Apparently it's very strongly against eating the intestines, which doesn't make sense. 'cause any wild animal, I feel like that would be the thing that they eat. Right. I don't know.
Em Schulz: Well, I, I feel like a wild animal would at least like not eat the bones or like you eat everything around a skeleton, but it's even eating that and just patooie the one part it doesn't like, it's like the intestines are its gristle. Um.
Christine Schiefer: That's nasty.
Em Schulz: If for some reason you wanted to catch one of these worms, apparently people would try to do it by using live goat as bait.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: And people would fish for this worm because its body was extremely valuable. Forget the fact that it's fucking rare and a giant worm but apparently...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. It's a literal monster from outer space, but okay, sure.
Em Schulz: Apparently the skin on it was so flammable, like it had like really intense oils on it that were super flammable and they wanted to use that uh for old school, like weaponry during war. And so they would catch this worm allegedly, because one has yet to ever be fucking caught.
Christine Schiefer: Right, right, right. Okay.
Em Schulz: As far as we know, apparently there's locals who swear they, their grandpa's, grandpa's grandpa caught one of these things.
Christine Schiefer: I mean whatever.
Em Schulz: Um. He was a 10-year-old Greek historian actually. Um if the worm, so you catch the worm and then I guess the oils could only be put out with dirt, like if they were to catch on fire, so does this thing spontaneously combust? I don't know. But, apparently, you catch it, you hang it out to dry for a month, and and like put something underneath it to catch all of the oils that drip off of it.
Christine Schiefer: But you kill it, right? Like you catch it and kill it.
Em Schulz: I, I assume, I imagine a wriggling live giant worm for a month. Um. Like, just, no thank you. Um. So anyway, it drip, it drip I guess you kill it, it drips all the oils off. They take that oil, go down to like, I don't know, the weapons factory.
Christine Schiefer: Department. Yeah.
Em Schulz: And um they would use that oil to create spraying flamethrowers.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: This is a 10 year old, you can't convince me anything else that this is not a 10-year-old writing this in a comic book, like making his own comic book.
Em Schulz: He clearly learned about intestines in biology class and he was like, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Christine Schiefer: He's like, that's disgusting.
Em Schulz: Yeah, my, my character is not going to like that because I don't. Um. But yeah, the oil, I guess, did you ever see people... I used to do this, I do not recommend, I do not condone, the like spraying like aerosols and like next to a lighter.
Christine Schiefer: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. I used to have some problems with lighting things on fire. Not like to an extent that was illegal, but like I definitely enjoyed playing with matches, which I do not recommend folks, please.
Em Schulz: I got caught one time doing the the aerosol lighter thing I still think about it.
Christine Schiefer: Were you in big trouble?
Em Schulz: I got yelled at in front of all my friends.
Christine Schiefer: "Gasp."
Em Schulz: It was so embarrassing.
Christine Schiefer: Was it your mom who yelled at you?
Em Schulz: Yeah. It was so embarrassing.
Christine Schiefer: Oh sorry.
Em Schulz: They all watched. Uh. And then I like walked away and tried to pretend like nothing happened, but they were like, we just saw that happen. Oh, I still lose sleep over it, I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. Um.
Christine Schiefer: I'm so sorry, that is traumatizing.
Em Schulz: Oh God, it was just the worst. Uh. As it was happening, I was like, I'll remember this forever.
Christine Schiefer: Don't you hate when that's happening and you're like, God, I wish I didn't just feel it like lock into my brain, like my subconscious just locked itself in. I just felt it happen, it's never leaving. God, I hate that feeling.
Em Schulz: Well, so similar to that, that's what these people would do is that they would spray this oil next to an open flame and create flamethrowers in, in battle.
Christine Schiefer: Cool.
Em Schulz: So that's why people were after this thing. Al-although I'm sure there was some like narcissist who just wanted to say, I caught one.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: And then would throw away all the good oils or something. Um. In 1852, there was an academic, here we go. Um. Named.
Christine Schiefer: A 10-year-old academic drunk on leaves. Okay, go on.
Em Schulz: He uh he proposed that the Indus worm or this worm that we've been talking about now has religious and folkloric roots in the Indus River Valley because it has been talked about so much that now it's become part of their...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, okay.
Em Schulz: Their, you know, Zeitgeist.
Christine Schiefer: Culture, yeah.
Em Schulz: He does say though that his guess is that the worms are not real, good guess.
Christine Schiefer: What?
[laughter]
Em Schulz: But, but he believes that the worms were actually symbols in previous religious stories. Uh. They were like symbols of like the serpent or something. And the he's blaming it on the Greeks, but apparently the ancient Greeks who were reading about these symbolic serpents took them literally by accident and really believed that these giant.
Christine Schiefer: By accident [laughter]
Em Schulz: And like really believed these giant ass worms existed so.
Christine Schiefer: Well, you know, this is a dangerous game pre-internet. People nowadays read articles and still think they're real even though they're from the Onion. It's like, watch out folks.
Em Schulz: As folks of the digital era um with the, what was it called? The information superhighway at our fingertips.
Christine Schiefer: What was it called? What did uh one weird middle elementary school teacher call it again? Oh yeah the information superhighway.
Em Schulz: They used to say that in the '90s. They were like, beware of the information superhighway.
Christine Schiefer: Or if you were not experiencing that when you were in the '90s, if we're older than you, um just so you know.
Em Schulz: That was really what it was called for a while.
Christine Schiefer: It was called the information superhighway, especially toward kids. Cause they wanted it to sound like cool and like you could learn things.
Em Schulz: Surfing the net.
Christine Schiefer: Surfing the net. I mean, oh, we got to bring some of that back Em I really liked that you said information superhighway.
Em Schulz: I've been saying it. I'm trying to make it happen. I say it to myself quite a lot so um.
Christine Schiefer: It's like a very, very good phrase to, to bring back.
Em Schulz: I also uh have been using the phrase surfing the net, which has made me feel good.
Christine Schiefer: Surfing the net is good. You've said that to me before. And I've been like, wow, that's very wholesome.
Em Schulz: Thank you.
Christine Schiefer: Even though what you're doing is probably looking up worms and like other weird shit, but it feels wholesome when you say it like that.
Em Schulz: You know what half my job is surfing the net. So I guess I'm a professional surfer.
Christine Schiefer: That's right. You are honestly Olympic, Olympic medalist.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Perhaps, perchance.
Em Schulz: And you know what's crazy is that I surf a highway.
Christine Schiefer: You surf a highway.
Em Schulz: A superhighway.
Christine Schiefer: A superhighway.
Em Schulz: I think I'm pretty, you know, I'm not going to brag, but I'm pretty great.
Christine Schiefer: I think you need a medal. I'll get you one.
Em Schulz: Thank you, uh but yeah, as people who surf the net, we get lost in translation a lot. So imagine year negative four, um where...
Christine Schiefer: And you find like a text, one singular text, and it's talking about giant worms, like, of course you're gonna be like, oh shit.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Or at the very least, you're going to tell someone at the bar who's then going to, in a horrid game of telephone, go, I know a guy who's talking about these giant worms.
Christine Schiefer: Yes, 100%, 100%. Totally, and I caught one myself.
Em Schulz: Um. I sometimes, sometimes I feel like back then was like, like equivalent to like QAnon or just bad news. Like, it's just like, you have no evidence. You can just go to someone and be like, I got a friend who's terrified of these fucking giant worms. You wouldn't believe it. And now I say, oh, my uncle's terrified of lizard people you know so.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, why... You're so right. It's the same thing It's like, oh yeah. And you could make those fucking pamphlets that just said like whatever the fuck you wanted them to say. You could make like salves and balms and tinctures and they would just be fucking saltwater or like lead poisoning in a bottle. And then you'd be like, here you go. And nobody can do fucking anything about it.
Em Schulz: It's a fun game of roulette. It feels like the information superhighway actually hasn't changed anybody um...
Christine Schiefer: It feels like it's just kind of advanced the way in which we do the exact same thing.
Em Schulz: It just does the crazy making faster.
Christine Schiefer: It does, and it it connects more of us, which is also bad, I think. Okay.
Em Schulz: Aw, okay. Anyway, so the the running theory by 1852 is that...
Christine Schiefer: They didn't understand metaphor simile.
Em Schulz: They didn't understand metaphor.
Christine Schiefer: No, they thought it was a real giant worm. I mean, understandable.
Em Schulz: Yeah, fair umm and then this uh same PBS special, there was a a cryptozoologist named Dr. Zarka talking about these Indus worms who said that these uh. They also agreed that there's a chance that these were just written about, these worms were just written about. And, uh they were later considered real worms, but they were probably like inspired at least by estuarine crocodiles, also known as marine crocodiles. Or salties. Fun fact.
Christine Schiefer: "Gasp." Oh, I like that. Salty croc...
Em Schulz: I don't know how to say the first one. If your last name is Erwin, like leave me alone. I don't know how to say it.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Wait, how do you spell that? Es... Not Erwin, but...
Em Schulz: It's like estuary, but estuarine. E-S-T-U-A-R-I-N-E.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, estuarine. Yeah. Estuarine, Listerine.
Em Schulz: Oh. Um, so these, they could have been inspired this Dr. Dr. Zarka talking that these Indus worms, maybe they really were just symbolic, but they could have been then perceived as real when people experienced marine crocodiles, which are crocodiles that are usually in saltwater, but also happen to magically live in rivers. Like in, I guess if the river is salty enough.
Christine Schiefer: Just salty enough.
Em Schulz: Like maybe like in, in a marshland where it's like kind of salty in the soil. And mixes them with the water.
Christine Schiefer: There's like some crossover.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm. Um. Erwins. You wanna fact check me? No?
Christine Schiefer: Please don't. Please don't. You have, you...
Em Schulz: I guess I'm just gonna say what I want them.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna look up these. 'cause you know, I'm really into crocodiles right now. Um.
Em Schulz: Yes, I do. I actually finally know that about you. I thought you were about to just say something so off the cuff and I was gonna have to pretend I know.
Christine Schiefer: Finally there's something I've already told you. [laughter] Uh, actually, I have something I haven't told you yet.
Em Schulz: Oh God what? You bought one. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: No it's... No. But I'm getting a tattoo of one and...
Em Schulz: That does not surprise me.
Christine Schiefer: It's, it's gonna be in color and it's gonna have, I feel like I'm spoiling it. I haven't even booked this yet. This is just like a new idea I have, but I'm gonna get a, a colored,'cause it's my first colored tattoo with a little birdie on his head. Like, you know how sometimes...
Em Schulz: Oh that's... Yes.
Christine Schiefer: Crocodiles have like a, or alligators have a bird, so it's gonna be kind of like a crocodile. But, um, he has like a bird just perching up there on his head.
Em Schulz: What bird?
Christine Schiefer: I haven't decided yet. Thank you for asking though. That was my brother's first question as well, and I was like, I gotta get a, get a bird.
Em Schulz: I would look up to make sure it's also compatible with crocodiles. 'cause what if you get like their favorite treat, you know.
Christine Schiefer: And they're, yeah. Yeah. Well I think, I think that's part of it is that because they're sitting there and they have wings, you can't really eat them. 'cause they just fly away.
Em Schulz: Which, which bird do you think would be the yummiest to a crocodile? I think those little blue jays.
Christine Schiefer: Little chicken. Chicken. But.
Em Schulz: I mean, chicken's my favorite bird [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. I was gonna say, I mean, as far as I know what birds taste like, I would argue chicken [laughter], but I don't have much experience of what the others taste like.
Em Schulz: I'm just saying you, you gotta figure it out because like, what if you picked like a duck or a quail? Or a peacock?
Christine Schiefer: A quail would be hard.
Em Schulz: Like that. There'd have to be...
Christine Schiefer: A penguin wouldn't work 'cause they don't fly.
Em Schulz: Speaking, speaking of like metaphors, so like imagine if you picked a penguin. Like there would, you'd have to explain that for the rest of your life.
Christine Schiefer: That would be unfortunate.
Em Schulz: So you might as well pick an unassuming bird so people leave you alone.
Christine Schiefer: I think probably I will do that. Yes.
Em Schulz: Maybe a parrot. No, I'm just kidding. That'd be crazy though.
Christine Schiefer: Just a Toucan [laughter]
Em Schulz: Just actually Toucan Sam from Froot Loops. That would be great.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, and then the alligator will just be actually Tony the tiger. I, it'll just be like cartoon characters.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Now that we're talking about it, I have always wondered what happened to that little Cocoa Puffs bird. Um.
Christine Schiefer: Oh yeah. Oh, he's probably not doing well.
Em Schulz: No, he needed to be committed a long [laughter] time ago.
Christine Schiefer: He was having a mental breakdown many decades ago. So.
Em Schulz: He was like one of those celebrities who's having a breakdown in front of us and nobody was saying anything and.
Christine Schiefer: And we just all pretended it was okay.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: So tragic.
Em Schulz: He started with clothes and then in the early 2000s I think no clothes.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I mean like.
Em Schulz: Something like that.
Christine Schiefer: Maybe he was in treatment at that point and that's why, that's what I can tell myself to feel better.
Em Schulz: Sure. Yeah. He was, there was something experimental happening and I don't know if it was...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, it's, it's too rough.
Em Schulz: Voluntary or recreational. I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: Me neither, but I will keep eating that cereal so it doesn't, you know, it's not gonna [0:31:11.3] ____.
Em Schulz: As long it doesn't make you too cuckoo like he went, you know what I'm saying?
Christine Schiefer: Sure. I sure hope not.
Em Schulz: Where were we?
Christine Schiefer: I don't know.
Em Schulz: Worms. So.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. Alligators, crocodiles.
Em Schulz: Alligators. Crocodiles. Okay. So the Indus worm probably if it existed, is inspired by crocodiles. Um. Because like a crocodile, they spend much of their time hiding in the water during the day, laying in mud, jumping out of the dirt without having been noticed and hunting at night. They kinda, forget their tiny little creepy legs. They look like a big textured worm.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. I mean, when they're in the water too, like they move, you know, they kind of move like that.
Em Schulz: Yeah. And um, yeah, they spring out of the water. They use their jaws, they grab people and drag them back to the water. So It feels very...
Christine Schiefer: They have one tooth.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I've never been close enough to a crocodile to count just how many teeth, but I.
Christine Schiefer: To be fair, you're right. I've never actually seen it with my own two eyes up close.
Em Schulz: But I know if I saw just a row of one solid tooth, I would remember that. So.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm. I would die probably on the spot and be like, fine. That's it. I'm done.
Em Schulz: It just looks like a Fairly Odd Parents' teeth. Like just [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: Just like one big white strip.
Christine Schiefer: You know, like on, um, MS Paint. Sorry folks. Eva's not here today, so we are like, we have free reign and it's like, it's like somebody...
Em Schulz: It's also Friday for us, so like we're about to go over weekend.
Christine Schiefer: Oh its Friday yeah. It's like, it's like somebody led us into the kids club, but like, didn't... [laughter] There's like the boss Em isn't here, so it's like we just get like to play.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Um. But you remember in in MS Paint where you would like draw a bunch of squiggles and then you could fill in the different like section.
Em Schulz: Yes. That's my favorite game.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. With a paint bucket.
Em Schulz: To be young.
Christine Schiefer: To be young. So that is what I'm thinking of with the teeth, where it's just like one tooth. And then you just drop a paint bucket and you're like, I don't wanna draw all the teeth. I'm just gonna fill it in with, you know.
Em Schulz: Exactly. Just pick white, just put it in there.
Christine Schiefer: One big tooth.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Which, speaking of the super, the information super highway um... That was the fun we had. I don't know who's listening. I feel like some people have their kids in the car. If you'd like to know what fun looks like back then in the digital age, uh the thing that all of our parents were so scared of back then.
Christine Schiefer: The dawn of the internet. It was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Em Schulz: We didn't even have games. There was no internet or like, I didn't have access to internet.
Christine Schiefer: We had like pinball, but my dad wouldn't let me play it on his computer. So it was like, that was the extent of games.
Em Schulz: We had pinball and Minesweeper and Solitaire. Those were kind of it. And then what we would do is we'd go into MS Paint and we would create our own coloring books. Essentially, we'd create our own shapes and then color them in. And then when you were done, you would just erase it and start over.
Christine Schiefer: Well, you know, it's so funny as Leona literally does that. Like she has a tablet and I downloaded like basically the equivalent of just a basic like drawing thing. And she just does that all day. And I'm like, wow, okay. I guess kids kind of like the same things. She loves it.
Em Schulz: It's, it's, multi... It's a multi-generational. I like that someone out there grew up and went, we're going to need another MS Paint.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, sorry. It's time to bring this back. Thank you. Yeah I'm happy about it.
Em Schulz: So uh yeah. Anyway, crocodiles are probably the creation of the fear of giant worms. So that's the Indus worm. We had to talk about that to get to its cousin, the Mongolian death worm, and they got a whole other thing going on. So this is now in the early 20th century AD.
Christine Schiefer: Wow.
Em Schulz: Um. And I don't know, a whole, maybe 25 years later um I don't know uh let's see.
Christine Schiefer: 25 years.
Em Schulz: Oh 20th century. Century. I was thinking year, year 20 for a second.
Christine Schiefer: No, I'm pretty sure that's thousands of years, but you know, you were close. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Thank you for, it wasn't zero. It wasn't zero.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: No almost...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: The early 20th century. It was almost zero. Okay. Uh, I would say cut that out, Jack, but let's just, let me, I'm going to keep, I like to stay humble every now and then.
Christine Schiefer: Let's own it, Let's knock you down a peg or two.
Em Schulz: Let me show, I'm, I'm, I'm just like everyone else. Just a little dumb sometimes. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: I know that like Em talked about being like at the dawn of the information superhighway. So sometimes we just need to like knock them down a peg or two to be like, you're still one of us okay. Just remember, don't forget where you came from.
Em Schulz: By the way that almost we're, we're on our way to that not being a flex by the way. It's like, I was here during the dawn of the sup, the information superhighway. Everyone else is going to go.
Christine Schiefer: Wow. And you, you don't...
Em Schulz: Great grandpa.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah And you don't know what 20... The difference between 20 and 2000. Cool. Sounds like things are going well.
Em Schulz: You know what I thought was so funny. Eva's not here. So I can like rag on her in front of everybody.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah let's do it, let's do it, let's do it.
Em Schulz: We, we did, um, a gift opening video yesterday for Patreon. If you're on Patreon, please go check that out. And someone sent like someone has a, uh, company that I guess named after they named it after a dog, Ethan. She didn't put that together. She just kept calling the company Ethon.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, Eva.
Em Schulz: And I was like...
Christine Schiefer: And is the dog the bourbon?
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Yes.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah Ethan almighty. I have that. I love that...
Em Schulz: Ethan almighty She kept saying Ethon almighty And I was like, girl, Ethan.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Girl, that's the most Eva thing ever though, where she'd go, I found this cool name called Ethon. And we're like, girl, I love her so much.
Em Schulz: Anyway, it made me feel um...
Christine Schiefer: She makes me laugh.
Em Schulz: It tickled me anyway.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. It's like, we all have our own dumb shit that we say in like our very own specific ways, so it's very fun to, uh, like poke fun at each other. Cause we're, we all are equally dumb in our own ways. Do you know what I mean?
Em Schulz: In the same breath, she said the phrase deneomon [0:36:38.0] ____ I was like, you can't say Ethan but you can say...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, exactly hey Wait a minute yeah exactly There's just like a gap in our knowledge, but in usually different parts of our knowledge.
Em Schulz: Yeah. In the early 20th century, Roy Chapman Andrews, a man, [0:36:53.1] ____ I'm done saying naturalist. Uh, he, uh, went to the Gobi desert, which is in parts of it are in Southern Mongolia. And in 1926, he published a book about his experience there.
Em Schulz: And while getting permission to travel into Mongolia, one of Mongolia is like department heads or head of state. They, uh, they apparently the way that he tells the story, this feels like revisionist history. He says that the, that Mongolia is head of state asked a task of him. I feel like what happened is he probably was making small talk in the office and the guy was like, Oh, you know what you should do? Ha ha ha.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Em Schulz: And he made it his life's work. Um, but apparently his version is that this guy asked Roy specifically, it was now his duty as a tourist of Mongolia to capture and collect a Mongolian death worm.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, no, he's getting punked. Yeah, you're right.
Em Schulz: Right isn't like, like a snee, like go catch a snee and...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, go catch. Yes, precisely. Like you, you're getting punked.
Em Schulz: So, uh how surprise he did not succeed, but he collected stories from other people who live in the area about the worm. And none of them, by the way, said, it's a snee, you got punked.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, okay well, so maybe, okay. So maybe I don't want to like belittle their culture. If they're really saying like, no, this might be a thing that's actually real, then go for it. I thought this was just like, they didn't know, they didn't believe it was real.
Em Schulz: To be fair, to be fair though, just to like, for your own like mental safety, I thought the exact same thing when I heard that though. I was like, oh, he really just ran with it.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah it sounds like, You're just giving a kid like a task that's like, kind of like poor, like go to the, like at the beach, like go fill this with, fill this hole with water until it's full. And then you just keep coming back, you know? Um, but yeah, I guess if it's, if it's, if it's more, you know, something they actually believe in, that's, I guess, different, but.
Em Schulz: Sure. So yeah. And I mean, he is a secondary source on what he, there's a good point that you made is that the things that he wrote about, that he heard from others, keep in mind that that now makes him a secondary source. So like.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: And he's a man at this point. I don't know what's going on. So uh take it with a grain of salt. Um. So according to him, locals say that the worm, when they describes it, and this was now centuries after, like this lore has kind of been shifting throughout, uh the ether. It has started to evolve. The, the description of this, of deadly worms. They're still completely limbless, but they are two feet long, only two feet, which does not feel very massive to me.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, oh, oh, oh...
Em Schulz: That's so like that means 2-year-old could hold that right.
Christine Schiefer: Well it doesn't feel massive until you see a 2 foot worm coming at you. But yeah, sure.
Em Schulz: You just made an excellent point. I'm gonna shut my mouth.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Apparently this thing is now so deadly you could die just by looking at it.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. What the fuck? They're like, we gotta overcompensate in another area since it's no longer 10 feet thick. We gotta, we gotta overcompensate.
Em Schulz: Also, I'd immediately sue Mongolia's head of state if they said like, you know what you should do, go look at this fucking worm.
Christine Schiefer: For real like, that's just, that's not even a punk. That's just like a death wish. Like bye.
Em Schulz: Yeah. And also this does give more credence to like, why nobody's ever been able to catch one. It's like, well, 'cause anyone who's ever seen one die just died. Whoops. So there's no.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, exactly.
Em Schulz: It's one of those, I don't know what the right word is, like a...
Christine Schiefer: Self-fulfilling prophecy, maybe.
Em Schulz: Something like that.
Christine Schiefer: Some catch 22 catch 22.
Em Schulz: Yeah. It's like it keeps, keeps you in a loop of like, oh, real.
Christine Schiefer: Double edged sword.
Em Schulz: But there is a reason...
Christine Schiefer: Should I keep going.
Em Schulz: Sure.
Christine Schiefer: Two sides of a coin [0:40:29.5] ____.
[overlapping conversation]
Em Schulz: An an Ethon, an Ethon Almighty. Um. It, yeah, it feels like a loop where it's like, well, we don't, we've never seen one but it totally exists. Oh, well we've never seen...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. It's like you can't really prove it one way or the other. It's just never gonna happen.
Em Schulz: So maybe that's like, they also said, like, oh, well you don't always die by looking at it but you can. But if you touch it, you will absolutely die. So...
Christine Schiefer: Oh God. Okay.
Em Schulz: And yeah, I don't, if we're still sticking with the story that people once like fished and caught this thing, how did you do that? If you can't even look at it let alone touch it.
Christine Schiefer: You just close eyes really tight.
Em Schulz: You just kinda feel around and then you die.
Christine Schiefer: You don't feel, don't feel around. Don't feel around. No, no, no, no, no. You have to...
Em Schulz: You just exist together.
Christine Schiefer: You just, you just close your eyes.
Em Schulz: It doesn't make any sense to me so.
Christine Schiefer: Let the magic happen.
Em Schulz: The magic of fishing and killing for maybe sport. Um.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Well, for all your cool fire flame throwers.
Em Schulz: Right. For war at the the the... Do it for the magic of war.
Christine Schiefer: The ultimate, uh reason behind humanities.
Em Schulz: Anything.
Christine Schiefer: Activities, hobbies.
Em Schulz: So if, uh yeah. So apparently you can't look at it, you can't touch it, but people fish for it and they capture it and they touch its oil all the time. So you use it as flame throwing material.
Christine Schiefer: I get it.
Em Schulz: Um. Roy says, after talking to all these people, his thoughts are that the worm is also a piece of folklore, not actually real. Okay. But the Mongolian death worm was brought into the western world around a hundred years ago, and some people still claim to see it. The Mongolian death worm is like the specifically so poisonous that you can't even look at a thing.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: Um. And so an example of how people claim that, you know, this Mongolian death worm is the real deal. In the '90s, there was a cryptozoologist named Carl Shucker, Shucker um and he wrote about the Mongolian death worm, which I gotta tell you, I went to his website, I'm sorry, his blog spot. And um I dunno if I don't, he's got one of those websites where it looks like it hasn't been updated since the '90s, and it makes me trust the veracity of anything on there.
Christine Schiefer: Mmm.
Em Schulz: You know what I'm saying?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, He's not really up on, like, he's still on the information super highway. He hasn't quite...
Em Schulz: Yes.
Christine Schiefer: Gotten to like modern day.
Em Schulz: He hasn't found his exit.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Uh. You know, I feel like it's also paired with the fact that he's a crypto-zoologist, which a... You know most people would immediately...
Christine Schiefer: It gets a little side eye.
Em Schulz: Call bunk science.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Em Schulz: I feel like if you're gonna be into like, something that a lot of people see as bunk science, you gotta have them as professional looking shit...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: To like balance it.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Unfortunately, you probably have to overcompensate. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Yeah. He did not do that. But, um, he did write about the Mongolian death worm. He said that its name in Mongolia is, uh, I'm gonna butcher it, but Olgoi-Khorkhoi.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: But apparently that translates to intestine worm, which now I'm confused.
Christine Schiefer: Hang on. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Because I thought the intestine is the only thing they don't fuck with. So now why are they called intestine worm? Like the one thing I don't fuck with is fish. Can you imagine if everyone just called me like the fish person? I'd be like.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, 'cause it's like why.
Em Schulz: Fucking kidding me?
Christine Schiefer: Like now you're just being mean.
Em Schulz: Yeah. I was like, pick anything else.
Christine Schiefer: Anything?
Em Schulz: That's, yeah.
Christine Schiefer: I eat eyeballs. You know that about me.
Em Schulz: Like, what's your thing uh my... Your... Mine is like, um, like disembodied feet and stuff. Like.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, a torso.
Em Schulz: A torso. Imagine if you were known as the torso girl.
Christine Schiefer: Absolutely not.
Em Schulz: Intestine worm, it's the same thing.
Christine Schiefer: It's not nice. It's not nice.
Em Schulz: Well, apparently it's called intestine worm for a completely different reason, which is that it gets its name because apparently the Mongolian death worm is bright blood red color and it looks like colon, essentially.
Christine Schiefer: Eww.
Em Schulz: And it only looks like this because this is a, a proof that the versions of this have evolved or devolved over the years. Apparently, the news story is that the Mongolian death worm lays eggs only in the colons of camels. And so to lay the eggs there, it has to hang out in the colon, so it, it becomes the color of the colon. And that's why it looks like...
Christine Schiefer: That's fucking...
Em Schulz: Intestines.
Christine Schiefer: Disgusting.
Em Schulz: Which that does confirm your thing earlier of yes, the colon intestines hand in hand.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Okay. It now makes me feel better.
Em Schulz: Um. But apparently the Mongolian death worms are known to adapt to the color of their environment... Of, of the environment where they're hatched. So when they're born, what their environment looks like is the color that they look like. And a lot of them are born in the colons of animals, so they all are colon colored. Um. This also feels like just what a new age 10-year-old came up with of like...
Christine Schiefer: What is even happening. Yeah. I'm like, I've, I've... This 10-year-old has lost me. I'm sorry.
Em Schulz: I've lost the plot a long time ago, but I'm still...
Christine Schiefer: You say a big worm. Okay. This is starting to get a little convoluted even for me.
Em Schulz: Really, it gets worse so?
Christine Schiefer: Oh, good.
Em Schulz: And by the way, just more evidence that this thing is probably a myth is that parasitic worms need to be eaten to get into digestive tracts.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: And if this thing is so poisonous, the second, it touches your mouth, the animal would drop dead. So...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't wanna know how it gets in there.
Em Schulz: Unless, unless maybe they're getting in.
Christine Schiefer: I don't wanna know. I said I don't wanna know. Don't say it.
Em Schulz: Okay. Okay. I'm just saying don't, but I'm not saying.
Christine Schiefer: But don't.
Em Schulz: Other descriptions of the Mongolian death worm is that, Oh, it's not actually red, like the color of intestines. It's actually very pale, similarly like the, the maggot version of it at the beginning of the Indus worm history.
Christine Schiefer: Gross. Gross.
Em Schulz: So either it looks like maggots or your intestines.
Christine Schiefer: I can't decide which is worse.
Em Schulz: It also apparently now can be up to five feet long and as thick as a human arm. It also has no mouth, no nose, no eyes. Does it still have the two teeth? I don't know. Allegedly, this thing is now so poisonous that not only can you not look at it, not only can you not touch it, but if you walk on ground that its oils have secreted out of you will die.
Christine Schiefer: Yes. What?
Em Schulz: So it's been said that the Mongolian death worm is the reason for entire herds of camels dropping dead all in one spot. And it's thought that they must have walked over a hiding worm who was secreting its oils and their little toes touched it.
Christine Schiefer: Ew. That's sad.
Em Schulz: Another sto... So now it's like not does, that's even further into the like, Well, I don't have to see it for it to kill me.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: It doesn't have to be there.
Christine Schiefer: Getting in your intestines. If a camel steps on its secretions and dies, that makes no sense but, whatever.
Em Schulz: If it's toe touched it and it's dead, how on earth can it get into its tummy, you know?
Christine Schiefer: Em I'm so proud of our logic. Look how, like we're so staunchly like list doesn't make sense. Yeah. Well...
Em Schulz: I am a critical thinker at heart, so like there's...
Christine Schiefer: You know what? I'm pretty impressed by that. That you're doing a really good job.
Em Schulz: There's... Thank you. There's fewer things I am good at than science, so.
Christine Schiefer: I always say that about you.
Em Schulz: Another story, uh, similar to the camels is apparently a geologist... What is with all these, like, can someone just give me a fucking name? Brad was walking around one day, and he was poking the ground with an iron rod. Why? I don't know. It seems like something a guy would do.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, it's not... We've been there. I've done that.
Em Schulz: Or, I mean, he is a geologist. Maybe he was like poking for some rocks.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, he's allowed to poke around. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Apparently he hasn't poked for that long because he drops dead.
Christine Schiefer: "Gasp."
Em Schulz: And instead of like thinking heart attack, stroke aneurysm. No. Apparently they think that a giant worm happened to be where he was standing and he was just underground. Brad happened to be near it and...
Christine Schiefer: No, and poked him.
Em Schulz: Oils wise, it, it went through his shoes into him died.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: So this led to a new theory that another 10-year-old must have come up with because it's that the worms produce electricity and they conduct it. Uh, it, they were conducting it and when he put his little iron rod down on the ground, he must have conducted electricity from their oils or from their actual body into himself.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, like a lightning rod.
Em Schulz: And it would also explain... Like a lightning rod. And it would also explain why all the camels dropped dead at once because they must have been electrocuted with their metal legs, I guess. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Sure. Maybe they were wearing horseshoes.
Em Schulz: Maybe the camels were wearing horseshoes and maybe the horses were wearing camel shoes.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Okay. You know what I mean? Maybe they had like those metal like plates on them, you know?
Em Schulz: I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Christine Schiefer: I mean, I have no idea.
Em Schulz: May... You know, maybe, I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: What the fuck do I know about camels?
Em Schulz: I mean, none of this makes sense, so sure.
Christine Schiefer: I don't know why I'm trying to explain any of it, it's ridiculous.
Em Schulz: Well, the defense for the the Mongolian death worm is electrically charged is because if it's a, a worm that's electric, electric eels exist and they can create a charge up to 600 volts that have killed people.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: In a very different way is like direct contact, but you know... Sure.
Christine Schiefer: And through water, which is...
Em Schulz: And through water.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Okay. Well, okay. I'll take that.
Em Schulz: Also, apparently there's, there's a new thing where if you get too close to a worm, it will spew just like the most intense acid ever at you.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. Okay, well that's no good.
Em Schulz: With great accuracy by the way, and it immediately burns your flesh off and you turn yellow. That part I don't understand.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, cool.
Em Schulz: We're just creating things here. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Now we're just winging it.
Em Schulz: There is a, a warning that if you are to be anywhere near Southern Mongolia and you are afraid of a death worm attack, high risk times for these attacks happen to be in the hotter months because like a...
Christine Schiefer: I can feel Allison booking her plane ticket right now for July, [laughter] and you and I are, you and I are gonna be like mother, like, it's like she knows in advance what's gonna really get our anxiety like through the fucking roof.
Em Schulz: It's starting to feel intentional, right? It's just like...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, absolutely. I don't doubt like you're onto something here. It's intentional. For sure.
Em Schulz: It's like when I said I thought she was a nice Jewish boy, but she's got a little evil streak to her. She's like, I actually, you've already got a wonky heart. Let's, let's light that candle. Let's, let's play, let's...
Christine Schiefer: Let's just stoke the fire. Let's poke it with a big stick. Why not see what happens?
Em Schulz: Yeah. She's like, I got a house out of you so you know my, my... Now it's time...
Christine Schiefer: You keep it going. She's not wrong.
Em Schulz: I feel like, umm, I was trying to explain it to somebody else. I, I was comparing you and Allison.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, great.
Em Schulz: I was like, you know, they make sense as friends because I was, I, this was in the middle of me using my, my nice Jewish boy...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Em Schulz: Thing. And I was like, I feel like Allison is 90% nice Jewish boy and 10% catastrophe. And I was like...
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: And Christine is 90% catastrophe, but 10% Jew, nice Jewish boy.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, now we're talking.
Em Schulz: And I think... And I think the two of you make a perfect little hug, you know?
Christine Schiefer: That's so beautiful, Em.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: I liked, I'm gonna, yeah.
Em Schulz: And by ca... And by catastrophe by the way, I mean only catastrophic to my wants and needs. Umm... Oh, that's it.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, to you specifically. Absolutely.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, no, I didn't doubt that for a moment, yeah.
Em Schulz: It makes sense why I like you and I like her because you're both...
Christine Schiefer: Why you're in the middle.
Em Schulz: The same. Yeah. Again, the hug.
Christine Schiefer: You're right in the middle of this hug that you didn't ask for.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Now describe me. Nevermind. Don't. Umm, so...
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Uh...
Christine Schiefer: I took a deep breath, but I'm gonna pass until next time.
Em Schulz: Uh, another story. Oh, the geo, brad and the geologist and the getting electrocuted. Okay. So then, umm, oh, so its new thing is now it can also spit acid at you.
Christine Schiefer: Right, so... It melt your flesh.
Em Schulz: Again, how would we know that if you can't even look at it, how would we know?
Christine Schiefer: Well, they found a yellow tinted person on the floor with no flesh, I guess, and thought, Well, I know what happened here.
Em Schulz: Mmm. Interesting. Okay, sure. Let's just make that fact because.
Christine Schiefer: Why not? At this point anything could be real.
Em Schulz: This is where I was saying the high risk times for attack beware are the hotter months because just like any other reptile, it comes out on to put its tummy on the, the warm sand, right?
Christine Schiefer: Mmm.
Em Schulz: So, uh, June and July, apparently those are the worst times. I feel like the poor, like people who work like in Mongolia are like, what happened to the tourists in June and July? What's going on? And everyone's just like, well, the Mongolia death worms...
Christine Schiefer: Em Schulz told us about this fucking death worm. No one's going there anymore except Allison.
Em Schulz: Uh, when, when, uh, so anyway, June and July, that's when they come out. You have been warned, but also have you I like, I'm more, I'm confused about like, so you can't see them 'cause they're underground, but at least you're alive because you're not looking at them and dropping dead. Right? But if they're out, I guess if you see them, that's what makes them more dangerous or that you're more prone to attack. 'cause they're not underground.
Christine Schiefer: You're more prone, [0:53:20.8] ____ not underground. It feels like you, no one's safe ever. Like if you could be walking around and just accidentally step over one and die. If you could be run into one and see one and die if you saw one and it sprayed you, if you walked into its little puddle.
Em Schulz: If you're at the grocery store, bump into each other at, at the candy section.
Christine Schiefer: And it's just like bam. You know? So it feels like no one's safe. I don't even know, I don't know the ranking of dangers here.
Em Schulz: Well, so now apparently the worm can also travel under the sand. So kind of like in those movies where you would see like a lump under the ground moving around.
Christine Schiefer: Eww yeah. Yuck.
Em Schulz: That's apparently a, a sign of apparently a Mongolian death worm being nearby. So you can watch them move and allegedly they have a favorite snack speaking of their candy aisle. Umm they like to get near black sax-saxauls and Goyle plants. Those are two different types of plants. So if it's just rains or if they're like, I guess thriving, avoid those plants. Allegedly this is how they draw their poison directly from the roots of either plant to kill you. But neither of those plants are poisonous and they're actually used in like a lot of medicine. So, okay. I did look up the, the Goyle plant and that thing seems to like fucking cure everything. Uh, it actually sounds like if this thing wanted to spray Goyle plant secretions at me, I would let it. Um.
Christine Schiefer: You'd probably get fixed. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Finally. Apparently it's like actually prohibited from collecting I guess because it's like so sought after.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. Interesting. Okay. Maybe this is just all them... A ploy to say stay away from those plants. The big worms eat them.
Em Schulz: You know, it's like the park rangers got like bored and they were like, how do we get people to stay the fuck away from those plants?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah leave this fucking plants a, alone yeah.
Em Schulz: Let's Create centuries old giant monsters. So that way they leave us alone.
Christine Schiefer: That's really smart?
Em Schulz: It obviously worked because apparently Goyle plants are like kicking. They're doing a good job over there. So, but they treat so this, this is just some of them. High blood pressure, diabetes, rheumatism, headaches, dizziness, joint pain, hepatitis, organ inflammation, constipation, stomach cramps, knee, kidney and back pain and improve sexual function. Like it.
Christine Schiefer: Wow.
Em Schulz: Tell me if it like, just tell so please bathe me. Bathe me in Goyle plant.
Christine Schiefer: You'd probably be allergic to it. [laughter], just knowing how our lives, like knowing how our lives work, you'd probably immediately break out in hives. They'd be like, sorry, you have a rare allergy to this plant. [laughter]
Em Schulz: So apparently, umm when it does choose to spray poison at you, it, the worm doesn't spray it, but it lifts half of its body off the ground. Puffs up and apparently there's like this elevated end, like this like bulb that fills with poison and it bursts and shoots at you.
Christine Schiefer: Eww.
Em Schulz: And apparently doesn't harm the mong... I, if something burst on me, I'd have to go to the hospital.
Christine Schiefer: Not a pimple.
Em Schulz: But apparently not a pimple. So maybe it's like a pimple 'cause it just kind of...
Christine Schiefer: Big pimple.
Em Schulz: Closes itself up.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Apparently this poison that like it builds, that builds up in it or this acid that builds up in it is so bad that it will burn to death anything it touches and it can even corrode metal.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my lord.
Em Schulz: Remember this thing does not have a mouth. So why is it doing this? Because if it's doing it to kill prey, but it can't eat.
Christine Schiefer: It can't eat it.
Em Schulz: What? So like why are we...
Christine Schiefer: But it eats plants, How does it eat plants?
Em Schulz: I think it just rubs up on like the roots of the plant and like has like its oils and their oils kind of make a baby.
Christine Schiefer: What?
Em Schulz: I don't fucking know.
Christine Schiefer: That's nothing.
Em Schulz: [laughter] So, uh, anyway, there's another mystery for you. If it has no mouth, why is it even killing these people? Umm but there are those that say the worm does kill prey and it does have the intent to eat. So I guess those people think it still has a mouth and it's two stupid teeth. Umm but how it consumes is a mystery I would guess through this mouth you're claiming it has, but okay. And maybe this is according to some people, maybe it has long, sharp spikes protruding from either end of its body. Yikes. Some people also say it's might have a mouth that's like one of those circular teeth. Like, it's like a.
Christine Schiefer: No no no...
Em Schulz: Like a Demogorgon or some shit or one of those like under water creatures.
Christine Schiefer: That's how I've been picturing it this whole time. So I guess that's kind of, yeah, that's how I've been picturing it unfortunately.
Em Schulz: Well that's how people imagine, like if it seems to have no limbs and it seems to like have no features on it.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: Where would its mouth be? Apparently those types of mouths like, like have a certain seal that when they open and close you can't even see them. So it's like a secret mouth.
Christine Schiefer: Gross.
Em Schulz: And so, umm people think it might have a secret mouth. This would also suggest if it has secret mouth, it might also have secret eyes, secret nose, secret Other things secret, other sensory organs.
Christine Schiefer: Whoa. With teeth, with circle teeth. [laughter] No.
Em Schulz: And apparently it might just open and close in a way that is, that we can't see. But then again, how could we see it to begin with if looking at it kills us?
Christine Schiefer: I'm so over that. I'm so over that. That's so annoying.
Em Schulz: So cryptozoologists, uh, who are literally inspired by the way, by the Dune series?
Christine Schiefer: Yep.
Em Schulz: Um. Who has gigantic sand worms. These cryptozoologists suggest that maybe Mongolian death worms are also just attracted to vibrations, like the giant sand worms.
Christine Schiefer: Mm.
Em Schulz: So one team even tried proving this by bringing out this huge heavy vibrating machine that thumped on the ground to attract Mongolian death worms. No luck. Can you guess? And then, umm, so then their thought was like, well, maybe it is still attracted to vibrations, but just not a pattern we know about. It's like, okay, like we are really digging our heels into everything are we?
Christine Schiefer: We're, yeah. We're, we're pushing this a little far. I'm just saying.
Em Schulz: Other cryptozoologist have even set off explosives under the ground to try to flush out the worms. Umm.
Christine Schiefer: Why stop it?
Em Schulz: Uh, usually I would say that's not humane, but it didn't work. So whatever.
Christine Schiefer: Well, and also like, there's probably other animals down there just like, stop blowing shit.
Em Schulz: Oh, shit.
Christine Schiefer: You know what I mean? Like, just stop blowing shit up.
Em Schulz: Yeah. And it can't be good for the environment either. Just like...
Christine Schiefer: No, I would doubt I would, I would think not. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Some believe that the Mongolian death worm once existed exactly as described. Okay. Some people say that it's just folklore. Others say that maybe it's based on spiritual encounters. I mean, if you're out in the, the desert, maybe like you just had like a, a moment and you thought you saw something or you were meditating and something came to you.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: Umm, and one theory is that Mongolian death worms are a real animal because the Gobi Desert covers half a million square miles.
Christine Schiefer: Wow.
Em Schulz: So it could just be a rare animal. It could be an animal that earlier generations know about and have passed it on. And over time it just kind of became more of a folklore than a real experience. So we have no idea. But some say if it did exist, it would look today like a legless lizard. Which, excuse me, that's still a fucking worm. Umm.
Christine Schiefer: [laughter] Yeah. True.
Em Schulz: With the abilities. Similar to a spitting cobra that sprays acid to protect itself.
Christine Schiefer: Yes. Yeah.
Em Schulz: So anyway, that is the Mongolian death worm.
Christine Schiefer: What the fuck? In the fucking, the fuck. I like, wow. I mean, like, you've covered stories before where it's kind of, oh, this was a hoax. Or like somebody believed it, but then like, only two people have ever seen it before. Like the, the, the swonk, you know? But this one seems like people are, people are after this fucking thing. Like they wanna find this damn worm. And I'm like, don't why. Stay away from it.
Em Schulz: This also shows you like how silly human beings can be. 'cause like all I did was just describe that like, if this thing exists, your only story afterwards is I died. Like that's.
Christine Schiefer: Yes.
Em Schulz: Why do you want...
Christine Schiefer: It's like a lose lose, you know? I don't know. Whatever.
Em Schulz: I dunno. I do not know...
Christine Schiefer: Naturalist be naturalism Ning. So anyway, I.
Em Schulz: Amen, sister.
Christine Schiefer: Amen. And I've always said that as Em likes to say.
Em Schulz: And I've always said that.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, okay, so I have a story for you Em I'm very excited to tell you this one because it is quite a doozy. It's a mystery, but we do get an answer at the end. So it's almost like, best of both worlds.
Em Schulz: "Gasp." Oh my goodness. It's, uh, so it's a temporary mystery. It won't be...
Christine Schiefer: It's a temporary mystery. You get to try figure...
Em Schulz: Won't be mysterious by the end.
Christine Schiefer: Figure it out. So I first heard about this story on, uh, Red Handed. They did a really good episode on it. So that was episode 322 of their show. If anyone wants to go listen to them, talk about it, they did a really good job. Umm, this story takes place in southeast Texas, in a town called Beaumont. And Beaumont is a city of roughly 112,000 people. Uh, it's relatively small compared to many US cities, but it does have a disproportionately high crime rate with violent and property crime rates, both well above the national average as of 2020. And some real estate crime rating websites placed Beaumont in the first percentile for crime, uh, defining.
Em Schulz: Oh shit.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. 99% of US cities, quote unquote safer than Beaumont. But as we know, especially doing this show and listening to this show and any true crime, umm, you know, the, the idea is somebody could, would more likely, perhaps experience a violent or property crime in Beaumont than almost anywhere else in the US. At the same time, flat statistics don't really tell the future. So maybe you'll have a wonderful day in Beaumont and then go to your home in the suburbs and get attacked. Who knows?
Em Schulz: Or, or you can buy a house in Beaumont just.
Christine Schiefer: Or you can just do your thing and not even...
Em Schulz: You just o whatever you want.
Christine Schiefer: Just do what you want. Uh, however, I say all this to give you the idea that Beaumont has a pretty rough reputation in that area.
Em Schulz: Sure.
Christine Schiefer: Right. So people will like, know of Beaumont as a high crime area, but Greg Fleniken, uh, who's the primary character of our story today, he liked Beaumont. He was comfortable there. He didn't live there. However, he spent many nights in town for work. This was like a regular, it almost became like a home away from home. The hotel he stayed out there and the hotel was called the MCM Elegante. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Oh my God. Excellente.
Christine Schiefer: Ooh, la la. Excellente elegante. Umm, so he would always stay at the MCM Elegante Hotel for work. It was like his home away from home. And just a little bit about Greg before we get into the story. So Greg was born Gregory Joseph Fleniken in 1954. He was a very adventurous person. He loved to travel, he loved animals. He would take care of the stray cats in the neighborhood. He was also a skilled hunter and fisherman who harvested for food and not trophies. Umm, he would often feed his family and friends and even neighbors with the catches from his fishing and hunting. Umm, and it was said that he loved water. He loved the woods, just like a very outdoorsy, kind of middle-aged man, essentially.
Em Schulz: Sure.
Christine Schiefer: Named Greg. Like, you can picture him.
Em Schulz: I, I, I I know exactly what he looks like yeah.
Christine Schiefer: You get the idea. So for a time he worked as the chief engineer on ocean ships, where he would often spend months out at sea. And, uh, as for his love life, he had actually met Susie when they were in their 20s, and they immediately fell for each other. Uh, she was a singer in a rock band, and she thought Greg was the kindest person she'd ever met. And then they kind of.
Em Schulz: Oh. I like that he's also like, she's kind of a bad girl.
Christine Schiefer: Like she's like a rock star. Oh my gosh.
Em Schulz: Oh my God. He's just, he's just at home tending to the, the cats, you know, just cats.
Christine Schiefer: Aw the stray cuts.
Em Schulz: Just doing what she needs to do. It's kind of like you and Blaise, you know, just.
Christine Schiefer: It is. I'm just jet setting, you know.
Em Schulz: Yeah. He's just, he's just.
Christine Schiefer: He's just tending to the cats.
Em Schulz: Catch and releasing, you know, just.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah. Same old, same old. So actually they met in their 20s, really liked each other. Then they ended up going their separate ways for a while. And it wasn't until years later when they were remarried and then divorced that they reconnected.
Em Schulz: Oh my gosh. Wow.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, they like...
Em Schulz: It's a long story.
Christine Schiefer: I know. So they, they went, they went, had their own lives, married separate people, and then years later they got back in touch and their love was the same as it was in their 20s.
Em Schulz: That's so sweet.
Christine Schiefer: And I know. It's a nice love story. And everyone who knew them said they just adored each other. They were a very happy couple. So when Greg and Susie got back together, he kind of settled down a bit. He left the, the seafaring behind, umm, and decided in, you know, all the seafaring. He decided to get into work with his brother Michael and go into business with him. So what they did is they ran a land management business. They dealt with minimal, minimal rights. They dealt with mineral rights, easements. You know, that old thing, that old chestnut.
Em Schulz: As that old chestnut. Oh, wow. Wow. Okay. You really took it to another level.
Christine Schiefer: I did. Uh, between private properties and the oil and gas industry, umm, you know, I don't know what the hell it means, but I imagine in Texas there's a lot of this kind of work. And, uh, when he would go home, he lived actually in Lafayette, Louisiana. And he and Susie get this, ran a bed and breakfast together.
Em Schulz: I... Okay, I know you're gonna make me just heartbroken because...
Christine Schiefer: I'm sorry.
Em Schulz: At some point someone's gonna get hurt, but currently their life feels like a lifetime movie of like...
Christine Schiefer: Yes it does. Oh yes.
Em Schulz: Oh, you know, me just like a young sailor, just, just whatever the ocean version of jet setting is. Yeah. And...
Christine Schiefer: Jet ski setting.
Em Schulz: And I've got me a, a cute little rock star waiting for me. And at the other end she's like, oh, there's this, there's this pirate boy, he's so nice. He's so nice.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. I'm gonna stand on my, uh, on my balcony with a white handkerchief and wait for him to come home from sea.
Em Schulz: And he actually comes home and she does not become a lady in white.
Christine Schiefer: Aww.
Em Schulz: And then you like, put them at a time machine. You see like where they end up and they're just a running a bed and breakfast together, kissing, holding hands.
Christine Schiefer: Is that not the most happily ever after thing you've ever heard. Yeah. Umm, so...
Em Schulz: Just don't can we end the story here? Can we go?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. I wish, I fucking wish. That would be nice. They, Greg and Susie, they ran this bed and breakfast in Lafayette. They loved hosting people from all around the world. They met people from all walks of life, but Greg worked so much that he would pretty much just spend his weekends at home. And then weekdays and nights would be spent in Texas, in Beaumont, which was about two hours away. And that's where his business with Michael was based. So he was kind of just going back and forth. And there, like I said, Greg was a regular guest at the MCM Elegante Hotel where he had what people described as a very, very predictable routine. Here's what happened. Every evening after work, he would return to his room, his hotel room. He never stopped at the hotel bar. He didn't like socialize in the lobby with other guests.
Christine Schiefer: Nobody ever visited his room. He just stayed in for the night, watched a movie, and he hit, he even had his own like little, umm, sync, uh, what do you call them? Idiosyncrasies. Like he would, he was very tidy in his hotel room. So he would put his dirty clothes in the closet. He would hang up all his clean shirts, and then he would keep like, live out of his suitcase with the rest. But he was also a big smoker. And so what he would do is he would set up this little, uh, like movie watching situation in bed. Umm, and so he would get a hand towel from the bathroom and he would use it as like a place mat. And then he would get, uh, his candy on one side, an ashtray, his cigarettes, the TV remote, like everything all set up. And then he would turn the air conditioner all the way up and watch a movie before bed. This was like, his routine anytime.
Em Schulz: Sounds nearly lovely.
Christine Schiefer: I know, I know.
Em Schulz: It's just, uh, there's nothing I love more than being in a hotel that's too cold and you're under those blankets, ooh.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, and you just like, don't have anywhere to be oh, it's the best feeling.
Em Schulz: Wait question. Do you like being a little too cold or a little too hot?
Christine Schiefer: I kind of hate both. I, I, I always say I prefer to be hot, but as I get older, I'm like, maybe that's not true. I don't know.
Em Schulz: Prefer to be hot.
Christine Schiefer: Yes, I know.
Em Schulz: I thought we were gonna like bond over something.
Christine Schiefer: I know everybody says that I'm a freak for that, but like, I just hate being cold. I hate being cold.
Em Schulz: I literally.
Christine Schiefer: I can't function when I'm cold.
Em Schulz: The idea of being at all warm at all is the, just the sickest torture you could put me through.
Christine Schiefer: Well, it's funny 'cause the, like the other day I was like, why am I freaking out? And it's 'cause I had like one extra layer on and I was just like, slightly too hot. And I was like, okay. I think I'm like developing more sensory issues as I get older. 'cause like now I cannot handle being too warm. But I think...
Em Schulz: Well when I was, when I was helping our friend move in, it was also like a little too hot in her apartment 'cause like the body heat of us, you know?
Christine Schiefer: Right. Moving.
Em Schulz: Moving in and out. And I was like, oh yeah, like, you don't, I, I asked the same question. I was like, oh, is it like, you don't notice this? She's like, no, I usually, I usually like, prefer to like run a little hot. And I was like. I didn't even, I was like, I, I don't think I have a response. I'm just grossed out.
Christine Schiefer: If the option is like, oh, the AC up and you're under the covers, or like, you're hot. I would choose AC and with under the covers, but I don't like to be cold with no option to get warm. Like, I hate...
Em Schulz: Sure. Well, like.
Christine Schiefer: I, I can't function.
Em Schulz: Okay. I'll, I'll rephrase the question. If you're in an apartment and you and someone else is in charge of the temperature, are you hoping at least I hope it's...
Christine Schiefer: Go cold. Colder. Colder.
Em Schulz: Okay. Thank you. I don't even know if I've forced you to say that, but I'm glad you said it anyway.
Christine Schiefer: No, no, no, I don't, I don't. No, no.
Em Schulz: Because there, there's nothing I hate more than like feeling tacky or sweatier. Like there's like a film on my forehead.
Christine Schiefer: The texture. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Ew. Oh my god. And like, at least...
Christine Schiefer: But I think like outside I would prefer to be hot than cold.
Em Schulz: No, because.
Christine Schiefer: Like if I have to stand outside for a long time.
Em Schulz: No, because then it's sweater weather. What are you talking about?
Christine Schiefer: No but...
Em Schulz: You could always layer up and look cozy...
Christine Schiefer: Everyone says that, but then you're still fucking cold and miserable.
Em Schulz: No you're wearing the wrong sweatshirts then. Okay. Here's the thing. If it's too chilly, then you at least can always warm up. But if it's too hot you can't cool down.
Christine Schiefer: Everyone, everyone says that. I don't, I don't agree. I don't agree because I, there are times where I'm like, I'm just fucking cold to my bones and I hate it.
Em Schulz: I just... I just usually respect everything you say. And today.
Christine Schiefer: No you don't.
Em Schulz: Not, not about that. That's.
Christine Schiefer: Nice Try.
Em Schulz: I certainly found a new winner. I certainly say. Okay, so that one I'd go, okay.
Christine Schiefer: I mean, Listen, I could list for you. I know exactly what's gonna, I I would never say that to you 'cause I know full well you would not have appreciated it. But now here we are, we finally come to this crossroads now, you know.
Em Schulz: Oh man, no, there's nothing I love more than a little chill. 'cause I'm like, oh. 'cause then get.
Christine Schiefer: Eventually, to get cozy.
Em Schulz: Enough layers are going to warm you.
Christine Schiefer: Yes. To Get. But a little chill is not what I'm talking about. I'm saying I don't like to be fucking freezing cold.
Em Schulz: Oh no. This whole time I'm talking about chili.
Christine Schiefer: And maybe you need to, to move back to a town where it gets fucking cold. And then we'll talk again about being cold Cold and layers. 'cause sometimes layers are not enough. Just saying.
Em Schulz: You say what you want my wrong little friend.
Christine Schiefer: All right, fine. When we get our car in another snow bank, then we'll talk. Okay.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Like, seriously. Uh, all right, let's see what's next. Umm, right. So he liked to keep his room cold. He liked to have his little, uh, his little bath mat from the to the little hand towel for like a place mat. Just all very kind of adorable little, uh, little habits he had picked up over the years. So the evening of September 15th, 2010, no different. He finishes up, he goes to his room number 348. He has with him a Reese's Crispy crunchy bar. He has a root beer and he has his pack of cigarettes. And he is going to watch Iron Man II.
Em Schulz: Holy shit. This is like a great night. Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: I know. I'm telling you, you'd be friends.
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: Uh, he read an email from Susie about filing a tax extension and, uh, if you needed another like Hallmark moment, he responded to her, you're doing great, babe.
Em Schulz: Oh Man.
Christine Schiefer: Isn't that nice.
Em Schulz: He's really after my heart. This is insane.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Well, unfortunately he would never be heard from again. The end. Uh, sorry for.
Em Schulz: I thought you, I think I misunderstood. 'cause earlier when you said the mystery would, was solved in my mind what you did say. You did not say this. In my mind. I heard everything's happy at the end. Don't worry.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, well, you did also just say someone's gonna get hurt. So you did know that was coming.
Em Schulz: I thought he'd get hurt and then get healed.
Christine Schiefer: Oh shit. No. Sorry. No, no. There's no, there's not a, it's not a happy ending. No, no. You should know better than that.
Em Schulz: One day you'll have a happy crime for me.
Christine Schiefer: You keep telling yourself that whatever helps you sleep at night. Uh, so anyway, he sends Susie this nice little note. Unfortunately, he'd never be heard from again, because on September 16th, the following day, Susie realized something was wrong. As soon as she started her day, she and Greg, of course, being who they are, spoke every single morning when he was away at work. And that morning she did not receive a phone call. And because he was such a creature of habit, as we've already determined, it was pretty hard to imagine he would just forget out of the blue to call her. And it was even more unlike him to not answer when she called him. Uh, but he did not answer. So she called his office in Beaumont to ask after him. And unfortunately the news she got was, uh, concerning. Apparently Greg had not shown up for work that morning.
Christine Schiefer: So she's getting nervous. She talks to his colleagues, they agree they're gonna go to the hotel to check on him, and they go to his room, they knock on the door and there's no answer. So now they're getting really worried. They find the hotel manager and he agrees to let them into the room to look for Greg. They open the door, and as they open the door, they see Greg. He is inside right near the door, lying face down between the bed and the door. Uh, there is a cigarette butt between his left hand fingers as if he had collapsed mid smoke...
Em Schulz: Holy shit.
Christine Schiefer: Onto the ground. Yeah. So paramedics responded quickly, but Greg had unfortunately been dead for hours. Umm, it's was reason that he probably passed right after he emailed Susie. Umm, like, you're doing great babe. And oddly, this is sort of like a locked room mystery.
Christine Schiefer: You know, those like, uh, kind of old timey like Sherlock Holmes esque, locked room mysteries, that's sort of like what this is. There were no signs of a struggle or violence in the room. Everything was exactly as Greg left it simple tidy. Nothing was stolen. Umm, he had a couple of hundred dollars cash in his wallet that was still there. And when a detective arrived an hour later, he thought everything looked perfectly in order in the room. There was a scrape on Greg's cheek, uh, where he hit the floor. But other than that, there were no visible injuries to his body whatsoever. So obviously there's no reason at this point to suspect any foul play or something out of the ordinary. The only thing that Susie kind of noted being off about the story that she was told is that the air conditioner was turned off when they found Greg. And it was pretty hot in there.
Em Schulz: Yeah. That wouldn't fly with me, but I.
Christine Schiefer: I see.
Em Schulz: It's, I, so I'm assuming it wouldn't fly with him, but like, could it be he was on his way to turn on the AC and that's when he dropped dead.
Christine Schiefer: So good detectiving. Let's, let's get into it. So like we said, he liked a cool room and Beaumont was pretty damn hot in September, but the detective was like, well, that's just like a little technicality. You know? Umm, the working theory now being that Greg had a heart attack, which made sense. He's a lifelong smoker. He didn't particularly eat well, you know, so it, it, he was young, 55 years old, and this was tragic, but he thought, well, it kind of adds up. So the detective kind of questioned some people in nearby rooms, umm, said, yeah, this guy died nearby. And they, everyone was kind of horrified. Umm, and, you know, it just seemed to, to click. Uh, his, even his own friends said, yeah, it tracked. He was like we said, a smoker. He didn't exercise, umm, heart failure, like it's sad and tragic, but it's not a shock.
Christine Schiefer: So a childhood friend named Miles Martin even said in an interview, I thought, well, those damn cigarettes finally snuck up on him. So everyone had kind of accepted that this is what had happened. Umm, there was a little comfort as well, knowing that he had lived his life the way he wanted. He died happy, he died content. He died with his crispy, crunchy bar. And Susie said that several times Greg had actually heard about someone dying like very suddenly and had said, lucky bastard, that's how I wanna go. So it's sort of like she took comfort in like maybe this was just a quick, like heart failure. He didn't feel it.
Em Schulz: Sure.
Christine Schiefer: Or suffered. So they're kind of grappling coming to terms with all this, his family. Meanwhile, Greg is transported to the Jefferson County Medical Examiner for just the routine autopsy. But when the medical examiner, uh, you know, turned in the report, uh, it listed a shocking manner of death. The manner of death was now listed as homicide. And when they took a look, it was specifically homicide by blunt force trauma.
Em Schulz: Huh.
Christine Schiefer: So what happened is, during the autopsy, the medical examiner discovered a small laceration on Greg's scrotum.
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: The entire area surrounding the laceration was swollen and bruised all the way to his hip.
Em Schulz: Jesus.
Christine Schiefer: Next, when he did the autopsy and took a look inside of Greg's body, he noticed that Greg had suffered massive internal damage to his organs.
Em Schulz: He was like, so something was like, like someone beat the shit out of him.
Christine Schiefer: That's what it appeared. So there were lacerations in his liver, his stomach, his intestines, there was blood in his abdomen. There was a hole in his heart which likely had burst.
Em Schulz: Oh, God.
Christine Schiefer: And it seemed as though this had been a traumatic beating. Even two of his ribs were broken. This was like the kind of injury that they kind of described it as, like a car crash would cause, you know, like it, it's, it's very, very, uh, extensive internal damage.
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: The chest injury alone would've killed him even without like the abdomen and the blood in the abdomen and the groin, all that. Umm, so the conclusion became, well, someone clearly beat Greg to death. So the medical examiner imagined that a really hard kick to the groin with steel toed work boots could have caused that damage, but they could not figure out like how the rest of the damage would've occurred, because outwardly there was not much visible damage to his body, like his chest, his stomach.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, even though his internal injuries were consistent with like a car crash or being crushed by something really heavy, the outward signs of his body didn't show that. So that was the first mystery. The second mystery was who the hell wanted to kill this guy so badly and like so brutally.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: So they talked to everybody that Greg knew essentially, and it left the detective scratching his head because Greg basically had no enemies. He was well liked at work. His family loved him, his friends loved him. He didn't, hadn't really burned many bridges in life. He'd never done anything like with, uh, untoward groups or anything like that. In fact, he was like the kind of person who wanted everyone to like him, umm, and had a lot of friends and nobody had a bad word to say about him. The next mystery was, well, how did they even have the opportunity to pull this off?
Christine Schiefer: Whoever it is. And however they did it, this couldn't have been a silent event. Right. So how had nobody heard anything?
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: There were these two electricians staying in the room right next door, 349. Umm, and they were actually staying there because there was this like, I guess electrician's conference going on. And so.
Em Schulz: I love that.
Christine Schiefer: I know. And so they would stay. And when Red Handed covered this, they talked about going to like some crime meetup and in the same bar as the true crime meetup they went to in London, uh, there was a, umm, an undertaker convention happening.
Em Schulz: That's so perfect. Wow.
Christine Schiefer: I was like, what?
Em Schulz: Weirdly hand in hand.
Christine Schiefer: What a, what a night. Umm, anyway, so they, they had heard someone coughing, but they said like, no, we were here all night. We did not hear like a brawl, a fight, anything like that. The only thing that was noted, however, in the logs is that a handyman had visited the room to fix a circuit breaker because Greg was microwaving his popcorn and he blew the circuit. So they thought, well, this handyman, we gotta look into this guy. He's one of the only people who were, who was face to face with Greg and maybe was the last person to ever see Greg alive. So they find this handyman and the story they figure out is that the handyman had gone to the room around 8:30 and had fixed the circuit breaker and moved on. And he unfortunately for police, had an ironclad alibi for the rest of the night.
Christine Schiefer: So it was basically a dead end, however.
Em Schulz: But they can't confirm at least that, oh, this guy was alive at 8:30.
Christine Schiefer: Alive at 8:30. And that it explains why the air conditioner was off, because when the breaker went out, the air conditioning shut off. And he may have forgotten to turn it back on before it got...
Em Schulz: Or not even noticed right away.
Christine Schiefer: Super hot, not noticed right away. And then by the time it got super hot in the room, he had already passed. So that was com like, like you said, just like a clue of the timeline and how this AC might've, why this AC might've been off. Umm, the microwave also incidentally blew a circuit in the electrician's room next door. And they also.
Em Schulz: But they know how to handle that.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, I was gonna say, of all people to experience that, they're like, someone's, they probably like look around, like lick their finger, put in the air. Like someone made popcorn on the baked potato setting. Again, umm, so, so their circuit blew as well. And they also experienced this kind of brief blackout, but they said they never encountered Greg or anything. Like they just said, when that handyman came up and fixed it, their lights turned back on. No problem. So the detective briefly considered like maybe one of them went over to complain about him messing with the circuits. And this escalated into like a violent confrontation, but like none of that ever panned out. And that kind of ended up just being another dead end. So months passed, the investigation just kind of went to a standstill. They had no motive, no suspect, and they didn't even know how the murder happened. So meanwhile, Greg's brother Michael, his business partner and brother consulted a private detective and former FBI agent from Houston.
Christine Schiefer: But that went nowhere, even though they paid out quite a bit of money for that. Then Greg's family offered a $50,000 reward for any information, and that didn't go anywhere. And it seemed like Greg's family just wasn't going to get any answers. Uh, but that was just unbearable to them. So Susie said, you know what, I'm gonna take another chance and hire a second private detective. But this time she found this guy in Florida named Ken Brennan, and now this Ken Brennan folk guy folks is like top tier like Sherlock Holmes level. Okay. There is a famous murder mystery he solved in the past, in the past 20 years or so that I'm gonna cover in the future, because he's like the king of these, like bizarre. I mean, he's like Monk, like he kind of looks at the world from a different angle, you know what I mean?
Christine Schiefer: Like he's, he's just a, he's on it. So Ken agreed to meet with Susie and go over the case. He talked to her about her relationship with Greg about their lives. He was not only getting to know Greg through this, but he was also trying to rule Susie out as a suspect. You know, that's kind of his sneaky underhanded plan here because he has to make sure that she's not in on it. So he asked about their business or life insurance. Uh, tried to figure out any way that Susie might benefit from Greg's death. 'cause that obviously could be a potential motive, but she could not find a single thing. And when he was finally sure that Susie was not involved in her husband's murder, Ken met with the detective on the case and said, let's go back to the hotel room. I wanna see this all in person. I wanna look at the autopsy. I want to talk to all the same witnesses, and I wanna see the crime scene photos. Like he wants to start from square one and see every little thing. So one of the theories was that Greg had been beaten to death elsewhere and placed back in his room, but Ken didn't believe the assailants would've thought to put a burning cigarette in his fingers. But the other weird thing is that the cigarette was in his left hand and he was right handed. So he only smoked with his right hand.
Christine Schiefer: So this is also a little strange. So he's like, I'm telling you, it reminds me of Monk, my favorite show. By the way, I am also rewatching it right now, folks. It's on Netflix. Just, just do yourself a favor. Um. But so they thought, well, it's weird that somebody would kill a man, then stage it with the lit cigarette. Like that just seems like very...
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: Involved and for what. But then also it's weird that the cigarette's in his left hand and people who talked, or people who knew him said he would never have smoked with his left hand. He only smoked with his right hand. So it was just a little bit odd. Umm, And it was lit. So, you know, who knows? Who knows?
Em Schulz: Like was it lit in a way though, like if, like it was still lit when the cops got there?
Christine Schiefer: No, no. It had just been smoke. Okay. Like, he had been smoking it. So it had been lit already. Umm, it was like actively something he had been smoking. It went out when he, when he died or when he fell.
Em Schulz: Thank God.
Christine Schiefer: Yes. Yeah. Umm, and so Ken believed that Greg did not die in a separate room or a separate building or separate area, but he had died very suddenly right there in the room. And he became convinced that because this happened inside the room, in this small contained area, that the electricians next door had to somehow be involved. He just.
Em Schulz: Interesting.
Christine Schiefer: I don't know if he's just intuitive or what, but he was like, I know there's some connection here. So the detective was like, all right. Uh, and he started reaching out to the electrician's coworkers to say, Hey, uh, you know, your coworkers who stayed in room 349, have any of them said anything weird to you guys? Like, have they, when they talked about their conference or their trip to Beaumont, did they say anything? Did they, did any of them let slip anything? 'cause there was a group of them and it's like, well, if a group of people knows something, one of them's gonna slip up. Or might slip up. So they reached out.
Em Schulz: Or just any of them at least know that one of them is like a, something weird is go like, is this guy a weirdo at work, you know, be honest.
Christine Schiefer: Something weird is up. And I feel like they did a really smart thing, not going straight to the electricians, but going to their coworkers to be like, Hey, you see this guy every day? Anything weird happen when he, after his conference? And most of them, only they said, oh yeah, that something did, something weird did happen. And the more they asked people, they said, yeah, that conference that night in Beaumont, they did talk about something weird happening, but it was all kind of secondhand. Like nobody really had like, details or concrete story. Umm, they just heard like, yeah, this guy died in the room next door. That's all we've heard. Like, we don't know the details, but it was just a little fishy. And so, umm, the private, Ken just kept, kept poking at it. He knew there was something there. So one of the men got this murder confused with another incident that the, uh, that the group had been talking about at work. And he said, oh, the thing with, with the gun. And Ken was like, the gun speak on that.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Oh, you, oh, you're looking for something odd. There is a gun story.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, you mean the gun thing? Yeah. So he's like, you know the story about the dead guy, like, or you know the story that crazy thing that happened when your coworkers were at this electrician's conference in Beaumont and everyone was like, yeah, yeah. The guy who died next door, one of them went, oh, the thing with the gun. And he said, no, I was not talking about that, but like, please elaborate and.
Em Schulz: Yeah, let's keep it, let's keep it going.
Christine Schiefer: Let's keep this train going. And so he had not thought anything of a gun yet, or heard anything of a gun. So the, the man he was interviewing didn't really have many more details than that. But this got in Ken's head and he was like, there's something here. So he goes back with the detective to the hotel room and they start looking for a bullet. They scour the entire room. There is no sign of a shooting. There's no sign of a bullet. Umm, and this had occurred like months before. So you know, any residue or dust or whatever probably would've been cleaned up. But they thought, you know, at least we might be able to find the bullet itself. If it got lodged somewhere, they could not find this thing. But then Ken was standing by the door just kind of assessing the room and he noticed a strong, a small indent, uh, on the side kind of where, you know, when you have a door with like a metal handle and they'll put a door stopper to prevent the door from punching through the drywall.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: So he noticed like kind of where that doorknob would, would go, a little indent. But he's looking at it and he's thinking, I don't think that's from the doorknob. It doesn't appear to be from the doorknob. It appears to be more like a hole. So he goes over and where it looks like the door handle had been bumping the wall, uh, when he actually moved the handle to line up with the hole, it did not match. So this is actually a hole from something else. So he goes next door to the electrician's room. 'cause he is thinking, okay, this is on the wall that was shared with these electricians. They go to the other side, look right where that hole is, and they find another patch spot on the wall. It is filled in with tissue paper and toothpaste.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm. Interesting.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm. This hole had not been patched by a handyman. It was just a small neat hole that had been stuffed with toothpaste. And in 348 the hole was a bit bigger, consistent with a bullet entering a wall and exiting through the other side. Ken believed they had their answer. Somebody, one of the electricians shot Greg through the wall while he was in bed watching his Marvel movie around 7:00 PM. When he was hit he probably, I mean, think about like the, like less than a snap of a finger, like how fast that would've happened. And of course, he wouldn't have known what happened. He was just suddenly in this tremendous pain, his body is like, being torn up from the inside by a bullet he doesn't even realize. And he stands up presumably to try to go to the door, which is why they believe that he handed off his cigarette to his left hand to go reach for the door. And that's when he fell and died pretty instantly, umm, of his injuries and.
Em Schulz: Damn. So, in this, in this version at least.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: Uh, or if this is the running theory, then the electricians didn't even know what they did. They were just hoping they didn't, the bullet didn't hit somebody.
Christine Schiefer: Ding, ding, ding.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Yes. So the issue of course was that the medical examiner had ruled the cause of death, blunt force trauma, not a shooting. And unfortunately, Greg had been ex... Uh, he could not be exhumed because he had been cremated. And so any hope to find the bullet in his body still was lost. 'cause he had been cremated. So...
Em Schulz: But wouldn't the autopsy have found a bullet hole?
Christine Schiefer: I mean, so they found a small incision on his scrotum, but it looked like just a cut. It went through his scrotum.
Em Schulz: Wait and also who beat the shit out of him, though. Like, that's like a whole other thing.
Christine Schiefer: Nobody.
Em Schulz: Where... All that... Just like the damage from just getting shot would just...
Christine Schiefer: The bullet literally shot through his scrotum up through all of his organs.
Em Schulz: Oh my God. It... I didn't understand that. I So, because he was lying on the bed.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: It would have gone horizontally through.
Christine Schiefer: Straight through his body. Is that not the most horrific thing you've ever fucking heard? Like...
Em Schulz: This whole time I thought maybe he was like standing up and like got hit by something. I'm like, wouldn't they have seen a hole for that? And then, and then I thought there was like a second part to this mystery of, and this is how we found out other people were beating him up. I, okay, I'm, I'm on board. Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: It's literally...
Em Schulz: So, he was lying down and he got hit from the balls up.
Christine Schiefer: A freak... It's a freak accident. The bullet went straight through the wall, straight into his scrotum and up his body.
Em Schulz: In his crotch. Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: Tore up all his insides to be consistent with a car crash or like a fatal car crash. Or being crushed by a really heavy, like, that's how...
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: How deeply the internal injuries were. It's, it's.
Em Schulz: Oh my god, that poor man.
Christine Schiefer: It's horrible. It's horrible. So essentially they realize now, like this bullet probably could, they, they didn't realize it that he had been shot. So they, they weren't really looking for a bullet. And also it could have been somewhere completely like random lodged in his body and they wouldn't have even known to look there. So, you know, all they had left was the autopsy photos. So they realized that this hole in Greg's heart was not a burst atrium from a beating, but a bullet hole in his heart.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: I mean, ooh. It gives me like...
Em Schulz: But you know what...
Christine Schiefer: The worst kind of chills.
Em Schulz: Terrible, terrible, terrible. But at least we're back to knowing that it was probably instant nearly instantly.
Christine Schiefer: I can only hope it was within, I think they said probably within seconds. 'cause he would've had the shock to stand up and that was about as far as...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Anything went. So at the very least we can hope that it was, you know, very quick. Umm, the forensics team also determined that the bullet's entry hole in room 30... 349 and exit hole in 348 did actually, they shined a laser through it. This Ken genius guy shined a laser and it would go straight to where he would've been laying on the bed watching Iron Man II and, uh, straight over the remote and his snacks. I mean, it was like, you could see exactly the track, track of this bullet.
Em Schulz: Oh, my God. Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. And so even though they now know what probably happened, they don't have proof 'cause they don't have a bullet and they don't have his body to prove that he was shot. So now they're thinking we gotta figure out how to get them to confess these electricians.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: And tell us what really happened. So they brought in Lance Mueller and Tim Steinmetz, and on June 1st, 2011, Ken and the detective, so Ken's the, uh, PI and the detective spoke with Tim Steinmetz and he said, oh man, yeah, that was crazy. I don't know anything about it. Umm, you know, he said nobody heard or saw anything strange. And then he agreed to sign an official statement, which was then notarized there and then by a local police officer. And as Tim signed the statement, stood up and said, are we good here? They said, well, we were until you signed that statement. And now...
Em Schulz: Ah.
Christine Schiefer: You've got a problem, [laughter]
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: So he told Tim, basically, we don't know what happened, but we know you're lying because you just signed a false statement saying that you saw or heard nothing strange. And we know that you saw someone shoot a gun in that room that night.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: So you are lying.
Em Schulz: Pretty immediately.
Christine Schiefer: Lying. You big liar.
Em Schulz: Come clean. Thank you.
Christine Schiefer: Come clean. Right now. Tim broke down immediately. According to him, the night of the murder, he was with his pals drinking in room 349. It was him, Lance, and a third man named Trent Pisano. And they were drinking beers. And Lance asked Trent to make a run to his vehicle, uh, which was out in the parking lot to grab some whiskey. He also said, Hey, why don't you grab my nine millimeter pistol also while you go down to the car? So when Trent returned with the whiskey and the gun, Lance took the gun and drunkenly started pointing it at the other men in the room as a joke quote unquote.
Em Schulz: Funny.
Christine Schiefer: I know, uh, obviously Tim or Trent did not find, it was funny. They are the ones on the, uh, receiving end of this gun waving around, and they're telling him like, cut it out. That's not funny. And you're drunk, like, put the, like, what are you doing? And so Lance is waving this gun around and Tim actually dropped to the floor because he was like, I do not trust Lance with this gun waving around while he's wasted. So Lance turned the gun on Trent as a joke, and then the gun went off.
Em Schulz: Of course.
Christine Schiefer: It shot off. Of course. It missed Trent, barely like by, you know, whatever they say, inches, centimeters, what have you. It, it went right past him, thank God, and went right through the wall. So Trent stormed off back to his room while Lance put the pistol back in his vehicle. I guess he realized even he had gone too far. And according to Tim, he was really freaked out. He was kind of in the middle, like on the ground while this had happened. He was like, oh God. He said, we, we went to the hotel bar afterward, and we were like, whoa, that's crazy. Uh, so Lance and Tim went to the hotel bar afterward they kept drinking. Umm, and they were saying they didn't even know if, uh, if anybody was in that room. However, I don't know if you recall, but they had heard someone coughing in there earlier.
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: And I don't mean like from the, the wound, from the shot. I mean, like they had heard someone coughing in there, so they knew someone was staying in that room.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: And they did not think to go, or they didn't dare to check. Umm, then the next morning when, uh, they're carrying someone out in a body bag, all three men realize what has happened. And...
Em Schulz: Can I can't imagine the, the stomach drop of.
Christine Schiefer: That, that drop.
Em Schulz: Holy shit. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Your heart into your butt. I mean, and I mean that. Holy shit. So they essentially all decided to get their stories straight and uh, that was what they were going on until Tim finally broke and told police, what had really, really happened. Umm, further investigation revealed that Lance had actually filled the bullet hole himself with toothpaste because for a while there was unclear whether the hotel had done it just because they were like, oh, there's damage, you know, we'll just cheaply fix it. But it looks like Lance himself. So he actively was trying to cover up the bullet hole.
Em Schulz: Yeah. He knew What was going on.
Christine Schiefer: He knew, he knew Lance, like I said, had also seen first responders wheeling a body bag out of the room next door. And he thought, oh shit. Did I do that? Yeah, you did. Uh, but he said nothing. Instead he asked his, uh, friend to hold the gun for a while and then he asked his attorney to hold onto the gun for a while. And he actually asked his attorney to not only hold for... What attorney is this.
Em Schulz: I know, I was gonna say.
Christine Schiefer: Asked the attorney to hold the gun for him. Uh, and he also asked the attorney to acquire the initial autopsy report to make sure that the cause of death was not a shooting. So when he heard to, to his credit, in a way, I don't like to say that 'cause it was his fault, but to his credit, he did get the autopsy report and it did say that the death was due to blunt force trauma. So he thought this must have been some freak coincidence that this guy had gotten killed.
Em Schulz: Murdered right next door to him murdered shooting a gun.
Christine Schiefer: Murdered. Exactly. So he thought, well, shit, I guess that wasn't my fault. So he did not contact the authorities, which ended up being a huge mistake because once the truth was out, prosecutors, you know, still they knew they had to charge him. They were hesitant to charge him with a felony. Umm, so Ken took it upon himself to convince them that Lance needed to be held accountable for drunkenly, mishandling a weapon he had. He had... If, if Lance had come forward at the start of the investigation saying, Hey, I'm sorry I shot a gun. I didn't, you know, maybe he would've gotten off with just a slap on the wrist for accidentally killing someone, you know, manslaughter rather than murder or cover. But whatever happened, it wasn't that. So instead he lied multiple times, he insisted nothing out of the ordinary happened. He hid the gun and filled the bullet hole in with toothpaste.
Christine Schiefer: It's clearly criminal intent. So that is what the judge decided. And that is what the judge decided. And the judge also decided that Lance was most of all responsible for grossly mishandling his weapon, his pistol. And ultimately Lance pleaded no contest to manslaughter. He received a 10 year sentence, in court Susie was able to make a statement to Lance directly. She said, I have waited over two years to look you in the face, eye to eye and simply have the chance to speak directly to you. You would never have come forward with the truth. You murdered him. No, you didn't intentionally seek him out to murder him, but you murdered him with every lie you told, with every intentional, selfish deception with every coverup over and over again. You saw his body taken out of the room in a body bag the next day you knew you killed him.
Christine Schiefer: He meant nothing to you. I would've spent the rest of my life tracking you down. And I found you Greg's murderer. I brought you to justice. So powerful stuff. Umm, you know, for what it's worth, Greg left behind, uh, a really nice legacy. I mean, it's pretty clear he was very well loved. Umm, when news of his death and memorial service were announced by his family, they requested that people instead of sending flowers, make donations to nonprofits, one of which protected, uh, and recovered wetlands in the area. And the other was dedicated to the humane and compassionate management of feral cat populations, which was something that he...
Em Schulz: That's precious.
Christine Schiefer: Really, really, uh, was passionate about. So that, that's the story of Greg Fleniken, AKA the body in room 348.
Em Schulz: You know, I well done on the story. That was a great story.
Christine Schiefer: Doesn't it sound like Agatha Christie? Basically like.
Em Schulz: Yeah, but also you.
Christine Schiefer: So wild.
Em Schulz: You did just officially give me and everyone listening a full fear of being in hotel rooms now.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. So that's what they talked about in Red Handed too. And I forget if it was Saru, I don't remember which one said it, but she said, listen, on the contrary, like people always ask, oh, does doing true crime shows make you like so paranoid or like, make you feel like you're prepared? And she said something like, no, it just makes me, umm, aware that like, you can die any day, anytime, any minute no matter what you're doing. Like you could just be eating a candy bar. So it's like who knows what to be afraid of anymore. Like they were in this town Beaumont with this high crime rate. This wasn't even like part of some organized crime. This wasn't like a drive by. This wasn't a mugging, this wasn't a, even a burglary. Like it was a freak accident, you know? It's just, just crazy.
Em Schulz: I'm definitely more scared of freak accidents these days.
Christine Schiefer: There's something so outta control about that, that you feel like you can't, you have no control on it.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Well, thank you for adding another one to the list.
Christine Schiefer: You're welcome. Just for you.
Em Schulz: Well if you wanna hear more of our, uh, rambles, you can head over to our after something dark, After Dark.
Christine Schiefer: After dark, because this was dark. And we're gonna talk about something after the dark. Umm.
Em Schulz: Okay, great. Umm, and if you're on Patreon, you can go do that. You can also see we have bonus videos and other things like that for you to go see and order our book. Get ready to see us on tour. You can find tickets at our website. And...
Christine Schiefer: That's.
Em Schulz: Why.
Christine Schiefer: We.
Em Schulz: Drink.