[intro music]
Christine Schiefer: The lag is gone.
Em Schulz: Is it? I hope so.
Christine Schiefer: I'm, I'm delighted. I've never seen you, heard you talk this promptly before.
Em Schulz: Oh, thank you. Well, I, I hope you're right, because right now it says uploading...
Christine Schiefer: Did you just freeze on purpose?
Em Schulz: No. Are you kidding me?
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God. No.
Em Schulz: Dude.
Christine Schiefer: I thought you were... I thought you were pranking me.
Em Schulz: No.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, you're fine now. Just... Okay. I'm just gonna stop talking about it. I'm clearly jinxing it.
Em Schulz: It says uploading 82%, 83, 85, 86.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. That might be an internet thing then. But congratulations on your new computer.
[chuckle]
Em Schulz: That may or may not be any more useful. Okay, maybe we have to get that recording studio faster than I thought. Um...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Do you, do you love, do you love her, the new laptop?
Em Schulz: I... This is my first time using her, so, uh...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, welcome.
Em Schulz: Currently, she's giving a bad reputation to herself with the...
Christine Schiefer: No, she's... Uhh to me, it sounds better than ever.
Em Schulz: Well, thank you. The, the audio is exactly the same because I haven't touched my, my RODECaster, and...
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: But the camera is nicer.
Christine Schiefer: I was gonna say, you look very clear in your camera now.
Em Schulz: Interesting. I... So much for that really expensive webcam I bought, but okay, great. I'm glad that this works better. You know, she's just, uh, surpassing expectations that we didn't have, and she is barely meeting the expectations that we did have, so...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. It's... Oops, awkward match up, um...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Maybe not soulmate level, but it's okay, um...
Em Schulz: It's okay. She's doing...
Christine Schiefer: I'm proud of her.
Em Schulz: She's doing good for...
Christine Schiefer: Uh, yours just got up to 99% uploaded, so I'm pretty excited.
Em Schulz: Let's, let's hope it stays there, 'cause I'm nervous...
Christine Schiefer: Why do I keep talking about it?
Em Schulz: 'Cause we're, we're both... We have, I think, a little trauma from the...
Christine Schiefer: I'm so sweaty.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: What people don't know is that for months, we have been constantly keeping an eye on my upload levels on my laptop, and it's never been good, which is what forced me to get a laptop last time, but now we're...
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: I think we're both just, like, primed to have to stare at it out of fear.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, I feel like this constant, like, uh, oh-oh, any time some things, even a little bit off...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: So I'm gonna, I'm gonna get over it, um, but in the meantime, I will just try to ignore it, um, but...
Em Schulz: Well, you know what we're supposed to talk about this week?
Christine Schiefer: I don't remember.
Em Schulz: It's okay, because it's been...
Christine Schiefer: Your new house?
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, great. Well, so can I say one thing beforehand, which I just wanna say...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Because it's not a big thing, I just wanna say it before I forget, and I know I'll get wrapped up in your new house, um...
Em Schulz: Okay. What...
Christine Schiefer: Happy Mother's Day to everybody who was, who i-is a mother, uh, identifies as a mother, uh, doesn't have any mother figures, and it's like you know, any, anybody out there, Happy Mother's Day whatever that means to you. And also, um, Blaise took... Blaise and Leona surprised me with a trip to the Appalachian Festival, uh, in... Over here in Cincinnati, so it was the best day ever, and highly recommend if you're in the area and you need something to do next Mother's Day, um, it's a great place. I bought a broom, um, and I bought...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm, sounds like a mother.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, well, it was like one of those like, hand-made, you know, brooms from people who... 'Cause they have a lot like living history displays and like, churning butter and shit, you know, and so there is... The guy is a broom maker, and it's like generations of broom makers. It's this gorgeous thing. I'm gonna like hang it up here, I think um... And the, like, like, teenager who sold it to me was like, "Oh, I don't know how much he charges for this. Grandfather!" And I was like, oh my...
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my gosh.
[chuckle]
Em Schulz: Living history, indeed. Wow.
Christine Schiefer: I was like, wow. And that was not like, not any sort of character, like that's...
Em Schulz: I would not be able to control my face if someone called their grandpa, grandfather, in front of me.
Christine Schiefer: Uh, well, I thankfully was staring at some brooms and was making other like... I just pretended I was just enamored by the brooms, which I also was. And I bought um, a little house that is made of like found wood scraps and there's a little light in it, and it plugs in to that...
Em Schulz: Precious.
Christine Schiefer: It's like a cabin with like logs. It's so cute. Anyway, so it was a great time. Um, we ate uh...
Em Schulz: What do you... What was the... Was it just like a living history festival or was there like...
Christine Schiefer: No, it's just... There's music. They had um, Native American dancing, they had a Navajo flute player, and I got like so enraptured by that, that now when I go to sleep, I just listened to Navajo flute music. Like, I've just...
Em Schulz: Oh, great.
Christine Schiefer: It was, it was so cool, and they had all different kind of aspects of Appalachian history, they had trinkets you could buy, they had different foods that uh, wooly, wooly beans? I don't know. Lots of stuff that um, is very Appalachian. And then they sold crafts, they had like a living history mu, kind of immersive part, they had lots of live music, dancing, like, um, a lot of uh... What do you call it? Um, oh my gosh, uh tap... Oh, no, clogging, clogging, I think? Uh...
Em Schulz: Sure.
Christine Schiefer: Just a lot of... It was just very cool and very... There's a lot going on, a lot of live music. Um, there was live storytelling um like, with older guys, all these two older men who bring their little like, storytelling truck around, and then they do like storytelling sessions with an audience. Anyway, so it was very cool, and um, I just wanna wish everyone a Happy Mother's Day. So now, let's talk about the more important thing, Em.
Em Schulz: Oh, well, I don't know about that. I just went... I only said it because I knew I would forget if I didn't say something. But uh, yeah, we have been... We have had a lot of things go on in our lives since we recorded that, um, and that includes you seeing the house, which I think we said the, the second half of this would be us, you giving a full review, uh...
Christine Schiefer: Yes.
Em Schulz: A Beach Too Sandy Yelp review, if you will, on the house.
Christine Schiefer: Five stars, would give it six if I could. I can't wait for the, the updates that you've already planned out, but I think it's beautiful. Like, you were not kidding. It is turnkey. You walk in, it's gorgeous. The woman who lived there before did a beautiful job renovating it. It even has like very millennial coded like floral wallpaper accents. Like, it's just beautiful, Em. And um, I was just very impressed, and I, I think it's gonna be a very happy home. It has a gorgeous little yard, um, with an... With, with a garage. I mean, it's just really beautiful. I'm just so happy for you.
Em Schulz: And the garage will one day be um, the studio...
Christine Schiefer: Yes.
Em Schulz: Or some element of it will be the studio.
Christine Schiefer: So they're renovating that whole space, which is gonna add a ton of square footage, um...
Em Schulz: Yeah, it's gonna like... I think we're... The goal is to like triple our square footage, or at least double it, so...
Christine Schiefer: It's like a wild thought that it's LA, folks. Remember that.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Yeah, we gotta build on top of it instead of out...
Christine Schiefer: You gotta build up.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Gotta build up, so, um...
Christine Schiefer: Build up, not out.
Em Schulz: It's... Yeah. It'll, it'll take a while. I'm... I... The last time you asked if I was happy and the answer was, I will be, and that's still the answer.
Christine Schiefer: And then afterward Em was like, "I hate when people ask me that," and I was like, "Oops."
Em Schulz: Well, only because I feel bad. I'm like, I'm like, I'm gonna bum you out with my awkward answer of no, but um, I... When I have a... I think it's also like, I don't have... I can't see it yet in my head, so like, when I see it, I'll be excited, but we haven't even figured out plans or anything. Allison's dad is coming at the end of the month, he's an architect, he's gonna help us, so, um...
Christine Schiefer: This is the fun part. This is the Pinterest stage. Come on, lean into it.
Em Schulz: I know, but I... I mean, I'm going to when he gets here, but he's not here yet, so uh, currently, I'm still... Like, technically, if I wanted to, I have the keys and everything, I could just go over there and sit on the floor if I'd like, but I...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, that's what I would do. I used to do that all the time. I would, like... When I, we got the keys to our new place in LA, and I would just go sit there, 'cause why not? I live here now.
[chuckle]
Em Schulz: Well, that's true. But also, there's no furniture or any comforts over there, so, uh... Oh, there's a TV. She left us TVs, which is nice, so...
Christine Schiefer: That's nice. That is nice.
Em Schulz: Yeah, Allison is more excited, but I think it's because she... I'm, I am, I'm just overwhelmed at like all the little steps, and Allison is a, is a task person, so it's easier for her to get over it, so, um, I'm hoping to...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, she's like, "I'm calling the gardeners. I've already called... I've gotten two quotes on this," and I was like, "Girl, what?"
Em Schulz: Like, okay, here's an example. And like, everyone, you can laugh at me, I don't care. But like, I'm in my 30s, I didn't... I never knew what it meant, 'cause I never had to, but like, when people are like, "Oh, just call the city." I'm like, "What the fuck does that mean?"
Christine Schiefer: Wait, what, what does that mean?
Em Schulz: I don't know. Like, things like that, like, that... I can't even...
Christine Schiefer: I've never heard of such a thing.
Em Schulz: Oh, I've been told that about 50,000 times in the last month. They're like, "Oh, you just need to call the city." And I'm like, "How does everyone know the number to the city?" What and how, who... That's...
Christine Schiefer: That makes me mad. I feel like someone's holding, holding out on me.
Em Schulz: It feels so gatekeepy, but then also, I'm like, "Maybe I'm supposed to know this, and nobody's told me."
Christine Schiefer: Well, if it's any consolation, I have no idea what the fuck that means, so...
Em Schulz: Because... Well, it makes sense, we're trying to get permits and you know figure out if we're able to do things, we have to keep calling the city. I'm like, what the fuck does that mean?
Christine Schiefer: Well, listen. We had, We had to... We have a historic district thing and the, "city laws," and we were doing, redoing a whole building and like changing the whole thing, so I know there were many calls made to probably the city, but I was like, "That's not on me. Sorry." Either Blaise or...
Em Schulz: Blaise probably has the city on speed dial.
[chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: I think the contractor had to do it, actually. Like, I don't think that was on us. Like, I think the contractor dealt with that.
Em Schulz: I, I think it can be on the contractor, but I think they... We were being told, "If you wanna figure out... "
Christine Schiefer: Allison's very excited. But Blaise and I are not phone people. She doesn't mind being on the phone. I... Blaise and I both...
Em Schulz: And she... And by the way, she, she obviously knew how to call the city, she had no problem with that, I said, "apparently we have to call the city," and she went, "Okay," and I'm like, "Do you just have their fucking number?" Like, how do... Do you just get me Burbank?
Christine Schiefer: I wonder if it's like a certain department.
Em Schulz: She's explained it to me and I still don't totally understand.
Christine Schiefer: Zoning? Is that a thing?
Em Schulz: Yeah, you call the city for zoning.
Christine Schiefer: I called... Okay, I typed in, city of Burbank zoning, and there's a phone number, so I guess you just call what you Google it.
Em Schulz: It's, it's... I'm sure it's that simple and yet I still... It's one of those things that immediately, um... Because it's something that seems so simple to everybody else, and yet I had to like...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, yeah. I'm not...
Em Schulz: Do the extra step of figuring it out, it's already like, discouraging of like, if I can't even fucking... If I don't know who to call and how do I get anything done. So I'm, I'm sure it's fine, but it's the, it's all the tiny little steps that add up that I just get stressed out, and I'm like, I can't even make the... I don't even know how to make the phone call, let alone build a house.
Christine Schiefer: I just... Well, then... But see, that's why you don't do that. You have somebody... You have a partner who is ready and willing and wants to do that. You're lucky. Blaise and I were like, "You call." "No, you call." "No, you call." Like, at least you have a partner who wants to. Blaise and I were just like, "No, I just wanna think about what color to paint the walls." That's about as far as I got and it's still exciting to do that.
Em Schulz: I don't know if she wants to, but she certainly knows that...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, she seemed pretty excited. I... She's like...
Em Schulz: She certainly knows she has to.
Christine Schiefer: "I've got these... " She's like, "I've got multiple contractors coming. I'm so excited. I'm getting two different, um... " Two different uh... What do you call it? "Quotes." She's like, "I already spoke with the gardener, I've decided where, which trees I want to put where." I was like, "Girl, get it. I wish you could come to my house and help me, 'cause I need help."
Em Schulz: Uh, no, she, she does seem on top of that. I know part of it is a slight guilt because uh, fun fact for everybody, the entire time that we were getting this house is when she was off the grid in the Amazon, so um, she did not really... With love, Allison, sorry, but she did not really participate at all because she just couldn't... She wasn't in the country or with internet access, uh...
Christine Schiefer: Or in the real world, in civilization.
Em Schulz: Yeah, so I think this is her paying me back of like I did everything and now she's like "I'm on it.".
Christine Schiefer: Well, she's always seem to me like a very get-it-done kinda gal.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm. It terrifies me.
Christine Schiefer: I mean, any time we had issues with our dorm room or our apartment, Allison was like in the off... The leasing office, like, laying down the law, and I was just hiding in the corner. So I feel like she's definitely suited for this kind of uh, activity, which I'm so happy for both of you that you have that because uh it's not my strong suit...
Em Schulz: I'll be, I'll be really useful when it comes to...
Christine Schiefer: Like, I'm scared to hire from Thumbtack 'cause I'm like, I don't wanna talk to a stranger ever, even if it's through an app and they come to my house, I like... I'm just such a chicken shit like... Trust me, I get... What I'm saying is, I get it, Em. I'm like, I get it. But there's fun stuff to do besides that, just like Pinterest.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I'll be really uh useful when it gets to organizing, and like, once everything is in the house, I'll be really good.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: But I always thought like after playing so much Sims, I thought like, I am prepared for this and um...
Christine Schiefer: I think. Maybe... No?
Em Schulz: Go figure Sims is not real life.
Christine Schiefer: What?
Em Schulz: Yeah, I was, I... There's... I'm not as prepared as I thought I was.
Christine Schiefer: Who locked me... Who locked me in the room full of toilets?
Em Schulz: I think you did that to yourself.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, that was me. You're right, my bad.
Em Schulz: Anyway, uh no, I'm, I'm glad that somebody...
Christine Schiefer: Can somebody tell me how to find a handy person, sorry, as I'm asking somebody on listeners helped me find a therapist, so now I'm just thinking, can somebody help me figure out how to find a, a handy person. You know a handy man is the generic term. That's fine. I don't know what's like appropriate, but uh like a handy man. Like I would just like somebody that I can text right and be like, "hey, um the baby gate on top of the stairs broke, could you come fix it? We don't have time." Does somebody know how to do that? Is that on Thumbtack?
Em Schulz: If you live in Kentucky, I feel like there's a lot of dads out there who just know how do all that.
Christine Schiefer: I know but how do I find... Like how do I... Like I know they're around, but how do I link up with them?
Em Schulz: A poster on a telephone pole, I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: Oh I don't know about that.
Em Schulz: Just go, help me.
Christine Schiefer: I've done that. It doesn't, it doesn't work. I've tried that over and over again.
Em Schulz: Oh hmm...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, well, if, if somebody has a recommendation like Thumbtack or like Task Rabbit or whatever, just let me know how this works. Okay, bye.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Same here. Same here in Burbank.
Christine Schiefer: I just come for life advice. Um.
Em Schulz: I'm currently, our our handy man right now, his name is Jonathan, and he's not very good at his job, but he does better than what Allison and I could have pulled off.
Christine Schiefer: That's kind of what I want. Just somebody who can pop in and out and like... I just, it's just like understood, when you have a minute, can you come over and like fix this curtain rod, you know...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: I don't know.
Em Schulz: I will miss that about apartment life, uh just things getting addressed quickly, but um...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. That's why I'm like, maybe I need a handyman.
Em Schulz: Anyway, you let me know 'cause I also need a handy man.
Christine Schiefer: I'm assuming it's just on like Thumbtack? I don't know. Now, I'm stressed out. I've lived here for four years, I'm like, I already stressed out. Uh. Okay, and leave it to Em to make everybody stressed out about something that we were all excited about five minutes ago.
Em Schulz: Uh you know we can all slowly build to excitement together because um it... Once, once I at least have a floor plan, I'll get excited. But we don't even have that yet. So it's just like, it's just, it's all just a blob of like mystery.
Christine Schiefer: And you know, now they have a lot of, fun fact they have like apps and and stuff. I was gonna say CD-ROMs. Oh my God, okay.
Em Schulz: Yuck.
Christine Schiefer: Yuck. They have like apps and software where you can um... I'm sure, they have CM-ROMs. Where you have take a picture...
Em Schulz: They have a Rosetta stone.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. You have to take the CD-ROM to your local library and they're gonna look at you like, what the fuck is that? Um. Uh. Where you can take a picture of your room and it'll, then you can change the walls and change the paint color, it's really fun and like add different furniture from different stores.
Em Schulz: I've heard of those. I'm excited when... Again, when I have walls, I will be very excited about that, but um...
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: It'll just take time...
Christine Schiefer: You have walls.
Em Schulz: Not, not, not the part we're building. That's not the... We're keeping...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, oh I know. I just mean the inside of the house, like the current house.
Em Schulz: Oh yeah. We're not really doing anything to change anything in there. Um.
Christine Schiefer: Oh okay, okay, okay, okay.
Em Schulz: It's just the, it's just the garage we're turning into a whole two-story building that's gonna be a rough one.
Christine Schiefer: Well, that's gonna take some work. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Um. Anyway, I'm glad you got to see it because it was uh... We were keeping it a secret for quite some time.
Christine Schiefer: It's beautiful Em, I'm so proud of you.
Em Schulz: And uh and as, as time goes on, I will become more and more excited. So.
Christine Schiefer: I hope so for your sake.
Em Schulz: Standby.
Christine Schiefer: And it's fun.
Em Schulz: I just, I just, I like to control things and I currently feel out of control, that's all. All right, uh why do you drink? Other than having a great Mother's Day, do you got anything going on?
Christine Schiefer: Oh um I have a weird rash. Does that count?
Em Schulz: Where? It matters where.
Christine Schiefer: Here.
Em Schulz: Oh, your arm. Yeah, that's... I wanted it to be somewhere a little juicer, but um...
Christine Schiefer: It's my inner elbow, and it's my left inner elbow. This is always where I get rashes when I'm allergic to something like red food coloring or if I eat too much citrus, so I don't know...
Em Schulz: You need to get that checked out though, that's been around for like a week and a half now.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, it's been around for like two months.
Em Schulz: Girl, doctor.
Christine Schiefer: Help...
Em Schulz: I know one number and it's 911.
Christine Schiefer: Help me. Help me. I don't understand. Like...
Em Schulz: That's rough.
Christine Schiefer: Thumbtack?
Em Schulz: I think my... The dad across the street in Kentucky...
Christine Schiefer: Handy man.
Em Schulz: I would I mean my fir... I would type in allergist or something.
Christine Schiefer: That's what Blaise said too, but I think it's like uh um, I think it's just dermatitis, like I think, 'cause I have it... I don't know, it happens every now and then, so I'm like, I think it's just I get these... Yeah, I don't know. It doesn't matter, that's why I drink, I guess. Why do you drink Em?
Em Schulz: Mm, um. I drink because we've done a lot recently behind closed doors and...
Christine Schiefer: Yes. You and I meaning... Right?
Em Schulz: Yes, yes. Umm and...
Christine Schiefer: What?
Em Schulz: No, I'm just... I'm just, I'm looking around at my room, I feel like the the task list just goes on and on and on, and I can barely do one task. I can't even call the city, so I feel like this...
Christine Schiefer: Okay, well, again, that feels like a big daunting thing that most of us probably can't do so don't worry.
Em Schulz: Which like this brings me back to like, why don't we have like classes in school that actually teach you how to do things like that?
Christine Schiefer: A, fucking men.
Em Schulz: Because I feel like... I feel like such a dummy and like I'm, I'm, I'm living an experience that is very common but like I still feel like a dummy.
Christine Schiefer: But I think we're all doing that. Like we're all winging it. Like nobody really knows. Everyone just thinks everyone else knows.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Although Allison really made it seem like she knew. So...
Christine Schiefer: Well, it's Allison. That's different. She just went to the Amazon by herself for two weeks. That's not the average person...
Em Schulz: I don't know how I ended up...
Christine Schiefer: Em.
Em Schulz: I don't know how I ended up with someone so capable. But...
Christine Schiefer: Because she's capable and it's like, oh, what a good match, so she can do that weird hard red tape stuff that we don't know how to do.
Em Schulz: Well, so anyway, we're going through uh you and me, we've been doing a lot behind closed doors, and now, now I feel like now that I'm back, I was like, oh, I can take a little rest, but... No, no, no, it's only just begun, so I'm just um... I think I'm gonna get myself a fun little treat later and then I'm going to crack into it, but uh the reason I drink in a good way is that later I will have a fun little treat.
Christine Schiefer: I'm so proud of you.
Em Schulz: But later, after that, I will have to work all night, but that's okay, 'cause I'll have my FLT.
Christine Schiefer: Honestly, that's the way it works. I'm proud of you.
Em Schulz: And uh and speaking of Mother's Days, uh update on little Leona. What's she up to these days? What's her favorite color? What's her favorite snack?
Christine Schiefer: Yellow and uh Sesame Street cereal bars.
Em Schulz: Great. And what's your favorite color these days according to her.
Christine Schiefer: According to her, it's red, and I don't think I've... I've kind of had to uh I've kind of had to just acknowledge and accept the fact that I won't ever be able to change my own favorite color um because it's just been so ingrained... It's almost like I've been brainwashed into thinking, it's my favorite color. So it's like she's creating my reality now, so whatever.
Em Schulz: Does she have a favorite, a favorite prank these days? A favorite gag, like she was all about slip, what slippery mountain or whatever it was called.
Christine Schiefer: Wobbly mountain.
Em Schulz: Wobbly mountain. What, is she...
Christine Schiefer: I posted a cute picture of Leona and me all dressed up, and people and somebody said "The Queen and Princess of Wobbly Mountain."
Em Schulz: Precious.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I think I'm the princess 'cause Leona is the queen of...
Em Schulz: Of course.
Christine Schiefer: Of course. Umm she loves to uh try to run away toward a dangerous thing...
Em Schulz: So do you.
Christine Schiefer: 'Cause she thinks it's very funny.
Em Schulz: Mommy daughter date.
Christine Schiefer: I know, right? I'm like, wow, this is very familiar. When I was little, I used to play that fun game with my parents. Um.
Em Schulz: Give her a fake social security card and just see what happens.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: See what happens. Yeah. Yesterday, I gave her a piece of bread like with butter and jam on it or something, and she was and I was like, "oh, do you wanna dance with me?" And she was eating it. She's like, "sure". And she just literally... It was unbelievable. Like slow motion, just chucked it and it like flew through the air, landed face down, she didn't even look, and I was like, "Leona, you just chucked that on to the floor," and I look over and she's like shaking her butt and I'm like, well, okay, this is my life. Why am I even fighting it.
Em Schulz: Yikes.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Well, okay, great. Sounds like she's doing good.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, she's having fun.
Em Schulz: Well, Happy Mother's Day. And uh...
Christine Schiefer: Thank you.
Em Schulz: I'm glad you had fun. I also had fun. I didn't have to do anything um but Allison hung out with my mom, so again...
Christine Schiefer: Oh how did that happen?
Em Schulz: She's in DC right now...
Christine Schiefer: Oh!
Em Schulz: Allison is.
Christine Schiefer: I didn't know. Okay, great.
Em Schulz: She's gone for another two weeks.
Christine Schiefer: See she's taking all the hard work off your hands.
Em Schulz: I know, she spent Mother's Day with my mom.
Christine Schiefer: Damn!
Em Schulz: I like I get to [0:21:12.4] ____ and relax over here.
Christine Schiefer: Veg out. Eat a fun little treat.
Em Schulz: I... And I will actually... So...
Christine Schiefer: And uh and you deserve it.
Em Schulz: Okay. I'm ready to tell you a story, 'cause I'm noticing that we hit our 20-minute mark, and I don't want to lose the audience...
Christine Schiefer: I love this arbitrary mark that you've created, but I'm, I'm in...
Em Schulz: I push it, like five more minutes every year, so...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, great.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Uh. And here's another thing um for why I drink is that I don't remember doing these notes because we were supposed to do this episode a long, long time ago, and then I had to get a whole new laptop, so um this is out of my memory. I officially don't know what's going on. So we're going to...
Christine Schiefer: Fantastic.
Em Schulz: Learn together today. This is so fun. Um. Now, this is uh the story of the... Drum roll? No. Okay. Hannah House.
Christine Schiefer: Hannah House. What's that?
Em Schulz: Well, let me tell you Christine.
Christine Schiefer: You gave, made me do a drum roll and then you're like, anyway, here's the thing you've never heard of.
Em Schulz: Um I had you drum roll for the mystery because we're, we're gonna dive in together, so my first note from past Em says, in 1858, this house was built for the Indiana State Legislator, Alexander Hannah. So that's where we get the Hannah.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Fun. This is a mansion with 24 rooms, all of which apparently have fire places. Um. That's a lot of chimneys, or do you think they just all web into one...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, no, I think they go to... Yeah, I think they meet in one. That would be hilarious if a house had 21 chimneys on it.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Um. Yeah, the fire hazard's insane. I mean think about the fire hazard of houses back then where everyone has to survive off of fireplaces. Like how were people...
Christine Schiefer: Okay, but there's no, nobody's wearing polyester. So that's a plus.
Em Schulz: In a lot of ways.
Christine Schiefer: In a lot of ways. That's the only bonus I have. I don't really know, I don't really know.
Em Schulz: I'm just surprised at just how...
Christine Schiefer: I guess people knew how to deal with fire though. Like I think people were more apt to deal with a fire... Like nowadays, I'd probably be like, "I can figure this out" and watch a YouTube video and then like blow up my home. You know.
Em Schulz: I guess that's true. And also fires back then, maybe were even less often than now because now we have electrical fires like maybe...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, yes true. Yes, true. Umm...
Em Schulz: So in the we... So maybe their's was just, if it's not happening near the chimney, it's not happening anywhere. You don't worry about it.
Christine Schiefer: And I think it was a necessity, that's how they warmed themselves when it was cold.
Em Schulz: Yeah, but that's what I'm saying like you would think if there's constantly a fire to warm yourself, you would think there would be more fires, like accidental fires but...
Christine Schiefer: I think they probably might have been. I don't know though. I don't know.
Em Schulz: Historians weigh in. Thank you.
Christine Schiefer: Thank you.
Em Schulz: Arsonists, weigh in. Thank you.
Christine Schiefer: Thank you.
Em Schulz: The mansion had 24 rooms and thus maybe 24 chimneys. It also had a two-story kitchen which think of the sandwiches you could store in there. Um.
Christine Schiefer: Oh but think about how much work it would be to make a fucking sandwich if you left the left mayonnaise upstairs.
Em Schulz: Ugh, the mayonnaise would just have to rot up there on the counter. I would never go back.
Christine Schiefer: Sure does. Sure does. Forget it.
Em Schulz: And the house had multiple parlor rooms and sitting rooms, and now, this is where I obviously did a mini deep dive, and I wanted to ask you if you knew the difference between parlor rooms and sitting rooms.
Christine Schiefer: No. I don't.
Em Schulz: Great, I'm looking and I don't think I figured it out either. Okay, so...
Christine Schiefer: Congratulations! We both don't know.
Em Schulz: According to Reddit, well, there are drawing rooms... Do you know what a drawing room is?
Christine Schiefer: I know...
Em Schulz: Because my thought is this is where you would sketch...
Christine Schiefer: I know what Amelia Bedelia thought...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: When she was drawing.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Amelia Bedelia because I apparently think the same things.
Christine Schiefer: Drawing the curtains, I don't know.
Em Schulz: Oh okay, so apparently, I really fully Amelia Bedelia it, I thought, oh, this is... It must be the sunniest room 'cause that's where you can sketch or something, like it's like the brightest room, so this is where you do all your art. Apparently, it's where you withdraw...
Christine Schiefer: "Gasp." Oh, okay.
Em Schulz: Uh-huh, and apparently, it's...
Christine Schiefer: I did not know that.
Em Schulz: For special guests only. So it's a, it's a small offshoot room...
Christine Schiefer: Oh it's like you're invited in to have a cigar in the drawing room.
Em Schulz: Yeah, so like if you're having a party, you can go up to someone who you wanna speak more one-on-one with, and you can take them into the drawing room, so you can withdraw from the party and have privacy.
Christine Schiefer: And you can be like I have a McClelland's batch 800 Louis the XIV scotch whiskey, if you'd like some...
Em Schulz: I have an ice cold Nesquik waiting for you if you want to come into the drawing room.
Christine Schiefer: Oh shit. Is it strawberry?
Em Schulz: It's whatever you want it to be. It's imaginary.
Christine Schiefer: Well, fuck yeah.
Em Schulz: But yes, you got it.
Christine Schiefer: Thanks for living in the fantasy with me Em.
Em Schulz: Um. As long as you don't say banana, you're still invited to the drawing room.
Christine Schiefer: Uh. Well, that was my next... I'll just keep my mouth shut then.
Em Schulz: That's right. Um. Okay, so a sitting room is a modern living room, it was, or I guess it was their version of a living room, so it was a leisure space for casual guests, so anyone could come to the sitting room.
Christine Schiefer: Gotcha.
Em Schulz: And people are probably hanging out in the sitting room, whether or not guests are there.
Christine Schiefer: Gotcha.
Em Schulz: Now, apparently there's a whole other room called the morning room and not mourning like sad, 'cause my first, I was a funeral parlor, all houses had funeral parlors in them, but now this is like a morning, like good morning room.
Christine Schiefer: In the morning. Okay.
Em Schulz: And it was what I thought a drawing room was, and it is the sunniest room in the morning.
Christine Schiefer: Oh 'cause you're, you're getting up and you're having your tea or coffee in the morning room. Okay.
Em Schulz: I don't know the difference between a morning room and a day room. And I also don't know difference between a day room and a sun room, so we've really got a lot to work with.
Christine Schiefer: For God's sake I mean it's like not... Imagine the percentage of people back then who actually had all these rooms was so small, you know what I mean, like any of us who lived past lives during that time probably never even went inside a drawing room because like...
Em Schulz: I know!
Christine Schiefer: We wouldn't have had access to that. So it's just a wild thought like, now we have to learn about it, we never even got to use it.
Em Schulz: Well, also like how many of these rooms were actually synonymous or were they really truly different rooms? Because...
Christine Schiefer: Is it like they served different purposes during the day, like throughout the day. So you would change the name of it from the morning room to the parlor, or is it like literally a separate room? So many questions.
Em Schulz: And also like is there a room... Is there a house out there that had one of each, because this place had 24 rooms and it's only saying it had sitting rooms and parlors, you couldn't find room for a fucking morning room? One out of 24 wasn't the sunniest?
Christine Schiefer: Right? Why are there 20 bedrooms, explain yourself to me.
Em Schulz: Yeah, so apparently there's a morning room, I don't know how that compares to other things. Architect's weigh in. Thank you. Allison's dad, weigh in.
Christine Schiefer: Handyman, weigh in. I guess. Arsonist.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Kentucky fathers, weigh in. So there's, the thing that I said was sitting rooms and parlor rooms. So the sitting room, like I said, is a, is the old version of a living room.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: The parlor room is the one that's a symbol of status, it's the best room in the house, and it's where you go with guests to make good impressions.
Christine Schiefer: So it's like the, like the, the fancy living room, like in the '90s when people would put like plastic on the couches and you weren't allowed to go into that room.
Em Schulz: Like the room that a lot of houses had when I was growing up, where it was like a room, everyone had a room you don't sit in and everyone had a room don't eat in...
Christine Schiefer: You don't wear your shoes in there. Yeah. Don't eat on the couch in there.
Em Schulz: The room you don't sit in is a parlor. Although what's so interesting is I guess that would also be sitting room because it was, it was just a bunch of fancy furniture you weren't allowed to sit on. So I guess it's not a sitting room?
Christine Schiefer: No, no. It's a parlor 'cause it's for fancy only.
Em Schulz: My mom always called it the phone room because that was where she sat to talk to people on the phone.
Christine Schiefer: Oh!
Em Schulz: That was its only purpose.
Christine Schiefer: That's creative.
Em Schulz: Um. Speaking of which, speaking of which there's one piece of furniture I want so badly for this house that I got, and I can't get it in this house because we just don't have enough room, but I want you to know in a dream world where I could expand the square footage, the first thing I would be purchasing is a gossip bench, which I'm wondering if...
Christine Schiefer: What?
Em Schulz: They used to be in parlors. Gossip benches. Like the, the chairs with a table attached to them, so like you would put like...
Christine Schiefer: Oh I don't know about this.
Em Schulz: Your telephone on it. Oh look up gossip benches.
Christine Schiefer: I mean I'm so so in.
Em Schulz: So like they were like low benches with a table on it, and that's where you would keep your telephone and your phone books, so that's where usually...
Christine Schiefer: Oh my mom has one of these.
Em Schulz: You'd put your little...
Christine Schiefer: Like a really antique one.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm. It was where you would gossip.
Christine Schiefer: And she has the rotary phone on it.
Em Schulz: Yeah. So I want one very badly, just so I have a reason to gossip.
Christine Schiefer: Oh they're not that big. You could... It's just like a, it's a teeny little thing.
Em Schulz: Yeah, I, we'll see how the rest of the house pans out first, but if I can squeeze my way into one, I will find it.
Christine Schiefer: I'm already on Victorian gossip bench, eBay.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I want... They also make modern-looking gossip benches, which is super fun, which is also kind of ironic 'cause nobody needs it.
Christine Schiefer: Oh yeah, Wayfair sells a lot.
Em Schulz: But umm that's all I want, and I'd like to think that would be in the parlor, but maybe, maybe not because the parlors classy and the gossip bench wouldn't be classy.
Christine Schiefer: That depends on what kind of gossip.
Em Schulz: Oh yeah, you're right. About the Queen. You could put a gossip bench in there for the Queen.
Christine Schiefer: For sure. She would love that.
Em Schulz: Okay. Anyway, the house has a lot of rooms, that's where we got. The house also has, uh later got an addition that had a summer kitchen because the two-story kitchen wasn't enough, uh a wash house, a smoke house and a milk cooling room. Bitch, that's a fridge, but okay. I'm sure, milk cooling room.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: A milk cooling room.
Em Schulz: Um. That's what I'm gonna call my refrigerator for now.
Christine Schiefer: I feel like it's something the Kardashians have...
Em Schulz: Yes.
Christine Schiefer: For like their protein powder or something like... Oh, it's just like a... Keeps it dry and keeps a perfect amount of moisture. It's like oh my God. Why?
[laughter]
Em Schulz: It does sound like something Chris Jenner would put in her immaculate kitchen.
Christine Schiefer: Something like unnecessary. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Uh. So the house was built in 1858, and this was for Alexander Hannah. He was born in the 1820s, and he became a harness maker, which again blows my mind what you could do back then. So he was a harness maker. He moves to California during the gold rush for a little bit, he ends up uh owning a ranch, and then he moves um back to Indiana and works for the railroad. There's one source that said his dad was the president of the railroad, that feels similar to me as call the city, but um...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, it does. It does.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Uh. Some other sources said that his dad just worked alongside him, so I don't know if he worked for his dad or with his dad, but he ended up back in Indiana at the railroad.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Umm a year after the house was uh... Or the year the house was built, Hannah bought the property to build the house. He built, he bought 240 acres. Um. I don't know what you need with that much acreage, but okay, he apparently also bought this from his dad, so I like to think is dad probably actually was the president of a whole railroad...
Christine Schiefer: It sounds like it. Yeah.
Em Schulz: To be able to own that much land. He builds his house. All the brick, fun fact cost only $585...
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Uh. For a 24-room mansion, 585 bucks.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my gosh.
Em Schulz: Umm he started farming again and he started using... 'Cause remember he co-owned that ranch, so now he's built the house, he starts farming on this new acre she just bought using "the newest scientific techniques in agriculture." So obviously, I was like, "What the fuck does that mean?" And so I decided to look up the, the newest hip happening scientific techniques in 1860s agriculture, and uh this apparently, uh this is from ThoughtCo. The early 1860s witnessed a dramatic change from hand power to horses, which historians characterized as the first American agricultural revolution.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: And then the USDA says that this was also when commercial corn and wheat belts were developed.
Christine Schiefer: Ooh la la.
Em Schulz: Okay? And uh in 1862, the US Department of Agriculture, um they established the Homestead Act, which gave free land to willing farmers this was...
Christine Schiefer: I remember this. I remember this from AP History.
Em Schulz: Yeah, so this was when sharecropping was replacing slavery.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: And Alexander was an abolitionist. Okay, and he allegedly used his basement to help hide enslaved people running away...
Christine Schiefer: Oh wow.
Em Schulz: And so he actually used his property as... Allegedly... We don't know. There's no documents because I guess why would you document this...
Christine Schiefer: Why would you? Right.
Em Schulz: And get in trouble, but allegedly his house and especially his basement was a stop on the underground railroad. Um.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, great. I mean, if that's true that's pretty kickass.
Em Schulz: Yeah, so in 1872, he ends up marrying a woman named Elizabeth. They only have one child. Apparently, her name was also Elizabeth, um and the, the legend, if you look up a bunch of like sites, most of them will tell you um that the baby was stillborn, but the uh truth is that she was born alive but died two days later, I think from complications.
Christine Schiefer: This the baby Elizabeth?
Em Schulz: The baby. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no.
Em Schulz: Umm so that's the, that's the main crux of the story, is that he got married, only had one child and and the child didn't survive. So uh there's a family plot that they're all now at, um including the baby. And Alexander was later in the Indiana General Assembly. At different times, he was a postmaster and a sheriff. It's giving ADHD.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: And he also worked for, again, a toll road, so he went from a railroad to a toll road. Um. It was the first toll road in their area, he collected tolls from people passing through, which like I feel like in my mind, that at the time when like... I don't really think of highways as a thing in the 1800s, I just feel like he's standing on a dirt road and he just stops people and he's like I would like a nickel...
Christine Schiefer: He just has a bag. Yeah. He's like uhh you owe me. Wait for what?
Em Schulz: It's very like just trust me bro.
Christine Schiefer: Trust me.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: It's like trust me, I work for somebody else and you need to pay before you can go any further on this cobblestone path.
Christine Schiefer: It may or may not be my dad who is the president of the road. Um.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: But either way, you owe me a nickel, just keep, keep moving.
Em Schulz: Just keep it moving, keep it moving. So umm fun fact though, the road that he would collect tolls on is now one of the major streets in the area, it's still near his house, and it's called Hannah Avenue.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Well, okay, so literally, his dad might have been the fucking president who knows.
Em Schulz: Of all roads maybe.
Christine Schiefer: Of Hannah Road. Yeah, or maybe all the roads. Who knows.
Em Schulz: So in the 1880s, 1890s, um Elizabeth and Alexander both die, but the house ends up being taken up by a jewelry business man, um a jeweler, I suppose, and uh th-this guy's name, his name is Roman and his wife Marie, they buy the house after um the Hannahs die.
Christine Schiefer: Did you say... Sorry, what year was that? They move in?
Em Schulz: Uhh 1890s.
Christine Schiefer: 1890s, okay.
Em Schulz: They end up living in this house until the '60s. Or no uh...
Christine Schiefer: Wow.
Em Schulz: Sorry, they, Roman and Marie buy it, their daughter ends up taking over the house and she lives there through the '60s, so it's in the family through the '60s, and the mansion was then vacant but owned by another guy named David. And never mind, I guess you didn't get the joke. So...
Christine Schiefer: I heard it. I felt it and I just let, let it happen, and then it was like, never mind, it got stopped in its tracks.
Em Schulz: Yeah. I was like, it's time to just keep it going.
Christine Schiefer: Good for you.
Em Schulz: So in 19, in 1968, uh a couple named the O'Briens, they moved in and I think they were... So it was owned by the Hannahs, then it was owned by Roman and his wife, Marie. Then it was owned by David, although it was vacant at the time, so I think the next family, the O'Briens rented while David owned it.
Christine Schiefer: I see.
Em Schulz: So it gets kind of complicated 'cause I kept seeing David and then the O'Briens...
Christine Schiefer: Like there's owners who are leasing it out...
Em Schulz: Yeah, it overlapped, but I think it was... I think they just rent. So um they moved in. The O'Briens did in '68, and they opened it as an antique store downstairs in the mansion, but then they lived upstairs, and they were...
Christine Schiefer: Ooh!
Em Schulz: The first ones to actually encounter spirits there...
Christine Schiefer: Oh!
Em Schulz: Probably because they were messing up the house so much by making it into an antique store.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, "they're like, this is the parlor, I mean the sitting room, and you're turning it into an antique room what are you doing." They probably messed it all up.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Yeah. So I feel like um and also the house at this point was already over like 100 years old, so now you're in a centenarian house that's now an antique store, like talk about the spirits your bringing in.
Christine Schiefer: Oofa doofa.
Em Schulz: Umm so the people who owned the house, they wanted to get uh the house on the national registry of historic, historic places, so they started fundraising. Um so they started holding parties there, including murder mystery dinners, they started doing music performances, Easter egg hunts. They had flea markets there and art shows, and it was like a wedding venue. They even had a haunted house in the house.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my.
Em Schulz: Which is so meta. A haunted house in a haunted house. Um.
Christine Schiefer: I mean places do that think about like um Waverley or those places where it's like already haunted, and then they're like... Or Queen Mary, and then they're like...
Em Schulz: You're totally right.
Christine Schiefer: And now we have dead bodies hanging from the ceiling, it's like, oh, did you need...
Em Schulz: Ha, ha, ha.
Christine Schiefer: Did you need that? It feels like there was already enough, but...
Em Schulz: Yeah, there was already enough corpses here at some point.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yikes.
Em Schulz: We're good.
Christine Schiefer: But for the murder mystery parties, excuse me, heartburn, yikes. Okay, the scariest thing I'll talk about today. For, for the murder mystery parties uh/Halloween haunted house things, they apparently go so far as to build a secret passage way into the house. And I say this now because a lot of people apparently go to this house and say like this house is super creepy, even when the family lived here, there was a secret passage way, and like so just to shut it down now, the... If you ever go, the secret passage way was intentionally built for the creep factor.
Christine Schiefer: In addition. I see, okay, okay, okay. That's interesting because I guess that could get complicated with the underground railroad uh you know rumor or lore about it, maybe there was a secret entrance that was used, I feel like those can get conflated really easily if it already has this like kind of underground railroad story behind it. So it's good to know that that's not part of it.
Em Schulz: Um. Yeah, that's... Oh yeah, totally, didn't even think about that element.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: I will tell you to um... You already know the answer to this. There is one thing I'm, I am very excited about already for the house.
Christine Schiefer: For your house?
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Yes...
Em Schulz: You know what it is?
Christine Schiefer: Yes, I do know. Of course, I know.
Em Schulz: Say it.
Christine Schiefer: "Gasp." Okay. Em and Al are creating a... Okay. So am I allowed to talk about it. I feel like it's like off, off the record. Um.
Em Schulz: It's not a panic room, yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Are creating a panic room but it's actually called... It's called a spook easy, okay and it's just like this kind of little annex off the main hallway, and what they're gonna do is put a secret passageway in the door so that you get to enter into the spook easy with the secret door uh secret passageway. I'm so excite... And apparently their contract or their uh realtor's uh husband already like makes... That was his COVID project, was learning how to make secret entrance, secret passageways. So they were like perfect, we're in. Oh man.
Em Schulz: Yeah. He... We're doing...
Christine Schiefer: Oh man.
Em Schulz: It's uh... Well, because I love my apothecary stuff, Allison's like one big hobby is mixology.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: And we both love the Halloween vibe, and we honestly, if we could pick a dream house, we would have gotten like the creepiest Victorian mansion possible. Like that's that's the dream. And so since we live in Los Angeles, tough, tough house to find.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, that's why I moved to halfway across this damn county. I was like, I can't give up on my dreams.
Em Schulz: Well, so now we're like, let's compromise on you know reality, um and we'll make one room look like you're inside of spooky Victorian mansion.
Christine Schiefer: I mean, genius.
Em Schulz: And it will be our apothecary bar you know...
Christine Schiefer: And like you guys...
Em Schulz: Allison can have her whole space.
Christine Schiefer: That will be perfect 'cause you are so good at like... You especially with your prop history, just so good at um designing everything to be just right. I'm really excited about it.
Em Schulz: It's also somehow being shared as Allison's office, so we're gonna have to figure out like hidden tracks or something, so it gets hidden. 'Cause right now, if she were to go on Zoom and be inside a haunted bar, it will look not like great for her corporate job.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, but as Al said, just blur the background, it's easy, that's what it... That's why that exists. So many people live in like studios in New York and stuff and have you know things in your background. Yeah, so...
Em Schulz: Anyway, yeah, I'm very excited about my secret passage way, and I'm very excited about um...
Christine Schiefer: Me too.
Em Schulz: Retiring to the spook easy every night.
Christine Schiefer: Oh God. I can't wait till you walk in and I'm in there, I'm like, I needed to drink.
Em Schulz: Well, we're trying to turn it into like a mini tavern with a whole like table top and chairs, so that way people can...
Christine Schiefer: It's gonna be...
Em Schulz: Come be there.
Christine Schiefer: Perfect, I'm gonna be there. See you soon. I know.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Uh. So um anyway, oh yeah, secret passage way. So people think it as a creepier origin to it than it does. And that's not the case.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Umm but so many people have said that you know as they're constantly coming through, that a-activity has increased ever since they started doing renovations for the Halloween space and the m-murder mysteries. Um and in 1878, uh the owners finally got what they wanted and put the house as a, it was a historical landmark and put on the registry, and in 1980, the mansion was also used as a haunted house for preservation funding, um and through that paranormal activity also grew, so I think it's just... I don't know if it's like mo-mocking the house or just so many people are coming in with like vulnerable, you know they're afraid to be kinda scaredy cats and that's allowing things to open up.
Christine Schiefer: And probably like stirring stuff up, just even asking it to come out and asking to interact with it and stuff.
Em Schulz: And uh the Hannah House is now also rented out for social events I guess, or it was for a time period.
Christine Schiefer: Cool.
Em Schulz: Now, now investigators are some of the main tourists here. The owner has even hosted events here on national paranormal day, where like a bunch of investigators all come out at once.
Christine Schiefer: Ooh!
Em Schulz: And investigators can actually book the location and the house offers haunted tours, overnight investigations. At s... At one point it, I don't know if it was because they were so desperately trying to bring people in, so that way they could get more funding, but they like wanted people to ghost hunt here and they were trying to like sell it to people as "if you go ghost hunting here, we will give you free pizza."
Christine Schiefer: Oh! Okay, I mean fuck it, I'm in.
Em Schulz: I mean if you've got a summer kitchen and a two-story kitchen, why not...
Christine Schiefer: Why not?
Em Schulz: Throw some pizza down in there.
Christine Schiefer: Summer kitchen. Do you know how much... Talk about Nesquik, that milk, that milk cooling room is probably just full of Nesquik strawberry and banana, just for me.
Em Schulz: Oh, you know what, I, I hope it's being put to use. So I hope it was put to use in good ways other than just cooling milk, I... You, you gotta get adventurous, if you're gonna build a whole room for cooling, you know you gotta be able to...
Christine Schiefer: You got to multi-purpose that, you know.
Em Schulz: I would also suggest that if it's gonna be hot there every now and then, maybe it's just a human cooling room. It feels like...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, good call. You could just hang out in there.
Em Schulz: If they didn't have air conditioning back then, they only had one cold room, wouldn't you just...
Christine Schiefer: Very good point.
Em Schulz: Oh and milk happens to be here. That's what I would think.
Christine Schiefer: Just, just ignore the milk 'cause that's not part of it.
Em Schulz: Yeah, it would be air-conditioned rooms featuring milk.
Christine Schiefer: Damn.
Em Schulz: That's a dream room for me.
Christine Schiefer: That is actually... I kinda hate it, but good for you.
Em Schulz: And I, I've never seen a place desperately want people to go ghost hunting that they'll also fund pizza for you, that sounds like a Chuck E Cheese event for adults if I've ever seen one.
Christine Schiefer: It sure does. My dream.
Em Schulz: Now, here's a fun thing that I put in there. Past Em was wise, because I have a fun fact in here that says uh fun fact about the Hannah House, the first ever horror comedy soap opera was shot here.
Christine Schiefer: What?
Em Schulz: It was called 'Creeporia.' It is on YouTube. It is bad.
Christine Schiefer: What?
Em Schulz: It is not good.
Christine Schiefer: What is... When was it from?
Em Schulz: Uhh I don't know when it was from, but it feels like early 2000s...
Christine Schiefer: Oh my.
Em Schulz: Um. And allegedly, it was developed by the same guy, his name is John Semper Jr. Umm this guy like wrote for shows like 'Smurfs' and 'Fraggle Rock' and 'Rugrats' and 'Spider-Man' and 'DuckTales,' like, so like he had a really good resume, and then I saw 'Creeporia' and now I'm kind of like judging like what he was about. Um.
Christine Schiefer: Flew too close to the sun.
Em Schulz: I feel like maybe his own kids were in it and he was like, oh, I guess I'll help, and it, it's just not good.
Christine Schiefer: It's not good, okay.
Em Schulz: If you want something to cringe at, you can go watch 'Creeporia.' Another fun fact is one of the portraits above the mantle here is a postmortem portrait of a child...
Christine Schiefer: Oh dear, oh dear.
Em Schulz: Umm her name is Hazel. She was apparently related to some of the owners of the house, so she's not even like uh someone who died in this house, they just had... The owners happened to find it in their own attic and then thought it was creepy enough to just put in this haunted house. So... Umm. And apparently, her eyes had to be drawn into the portrait...
Christine Schiefer: Oh God.
Em Schulz: Because they were closed.
Christine Schiefer: Oh God.
Em Schulz: And people say her eyes that were drawn into the portrait follow you when you walk around the room. So that's the first potential ghost thing that happens there...
Christine Schiefer: I don't want... I don't...
Em Schulz: Or people are reading into it.
Christine Schiefer: I don't love that.
Em Schulz: As for that, 'cause Hazel did not die in the house, but the people who did die in the house, one was Alexander Hannah himself. He apparently had a heart attack in the house, then Marie, who was the one of the people who owned the house after him, and again, the Hannah's baby died...
Christine Schiefer: Okay, yeah.
Em Schulz: From complications in the house.
Christine Schiefer: Elizabeth.
Em Schulz: Yeah. They were um... The main deaths or the, the main deaths here are when it was part of the underground railroad, so you've got those three and then the main deaths during the underground, underground railroad were allegedly seven to eight, they think... Their, their best guess is seven to eight enslaved people were hiding in the basement one night, and someone tipped over the oil lamp.
Christine Schiefer: "Gasp."
Em Schulz: And the basement caught on fire and they were stuck in the basement. Um. They were either trapped or they were too afraid to run, umm but they all died and somehow, it was actually from smoke inhalation and not the fire itself. I think I don't even ever really realize how often smoke inhalation is...
Christine Schiefer: Yes.
Em Schulz: Actually the cause of death.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Umm and so their best guess is just under 10 people. Umm when Alexander came back to check on them, they assumed he was either at work or in his house, and he just didn't know what was going on. Umm when it happened and he saw all these people had passed in his home, because they were runaways, he couldn't tell anyone what happened, and so part of the legend is that he ended up burying what was left of them in that basement where they died.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: Umm and now the basement is concreted over, so there's no way to know, I guess. And there's still no document of it...
Christine Schiefer: I guess you can use ground-penetrating radar.
Em Schulz: I guess so. But there's no... Unless they do that, there's no documentation of this, it's just a story...
Christine Schiefer: A story.
Em Schulz: And like you, not that you hope that that happened to people, but you hope no one's faking that story either. Um.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. It's almost like I hope it's not real because what a horrifying tale, like...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Maybe it just got blown out of proportion from another story or it just like built up some sort of lore over time. I don't know. That's sad.
Em Schulz: The only evidence that does exist is that near their property, there are partially collapsed tunnels that nobody originally knew about, and so it suggested that there really was an underground railroad pass... Or like a um p-point...
Christine Schiefer: Oh wow.
Em Schulz: Checkpoint...
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Through that area. So we don't know, but it's um told enough that it's become part of the house's legend...
Christine Schiefer: Damn.
Em Schulz: And now just for the ghosts, um people here have heard huge crashes like breaking glass in the basement, and when they check, nothing has happened. Umm I should mention too, some of the jars in the basement, 'cause there's a whole wall that still looks like someone is canning goods there, and they're from like one of the uh one of the original owners of the house, like there, and they've also passed away. So their own canned goods are still just sitting on the shelves.
Christine Schiefer: Whoa.
Em Schulz: Umm, yeah. So anyway, people hear huge crashes like breaking glass down there, and then there's nothing that has gone amiss. Silverware will fly across the room, pictures will swing on the walls by themselves, doors will open and close even when they're locked umm, or when they're left locked. The O'Briens who created the... They lived there and also turned it into an antique museum or an antique shop, uhh their daughter, I guess, moved in at one point, uh or the family moved in and brought their daughter when she was very young, and she would talk to somebody on the stairs. And she said that he looked grand fatherly and called him dad, like in front of her own dad, like wow.
Christine Schiefer: Rude.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Umm but so she would just talk. And then I, I hope they just never brought that kid back to the house, so...
Christine Schiefer: I hope so also.
Em Schulz: People hear voices and footsteps, and uh I feel like I always... Name an episode where I don't say voices and footsteps at some point, but people, people also hear rustling clothing as if someone is moving around the house, people feel cold drafts, umm other doors and windows are seen opening and closing. People hear loud scratching from inside the walls, um electronics will turn on and off by themselves, including the stereo, which has been known to play music.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-mm.
Em Schulz: Umm and then I guess the ghosts don't like the music and they just pull the fucking cord, they're like nope, no music.
Christine Schiefer: They're like, where's phono... Where's my... Where's my old time-y... I don't know they listened to.
Em Schulz: If you're not dancing to the Charleston, it's not music.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, exactly, exactly. You get it.
Em Schulz: People smell cigar smoke in some of the rooms and they smell roses in others, which is interesting because I am... It's kind of all coming back to me. As I was looking up the sitting rooms versus parlor rooms thing, it would have made sense for the house to have a parlor room for men and a parlor room for women, because they apparently didn't actually... Men and women didn't sit in the same rooms together.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: So if some rooms smelled like cigar and some rooms smelled like roses, it could be...
Christine Schiefer: It makes sense to me.
Em Schulz: That there were separate parlor rooms. Some people have also smelled candles, um and... But here's the thing, they, they say they smell candles, but really they smell candles being blown out like sulfur...
Christine Schiefer: Oh...
Em Schulz: Um. And they also smell rotting flesh, which is very demonic. My guess with the candles and sulfur is that they're actually smelling the fire.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, Jesus Christ.
Em Schulz: Um. Because of this rotting flesh smell, I feel like this is something I would throw in as like a true or false, and it would obviously be a throwaway false, but apparently, this is an actual facthood of the house, because it's so known for smelling like rotting flesh, there is a rumor that this house is a nicknamed throughout town as the house that reeks of death.
Christine Schiefer: Whoa! Wait, there's a rumor that it's called that or, or...
Em Schulz: I'm saying it's a rumor because I saw it on actually weirdly too many sources, but I still can't really believe it, so I'm like, okay, there has to be a rumor, it can't be real.
Christine Schiefer: No. That's...
Em Schulz: But apparently...
Christine Schiefer: I feel like that's probably they... They'd call it that.
Em Schulz: Maybe. Okay, well then the house is called...
Christine Schiefer: People call weirder words.
Em Schulz: The house is called the house that reeks of death. Um.
Christine Schiefer: Jesus. Like let me see what happens if I... Have you ever just typed in the house that reeks of what, death?
Em Schulz: Of death.
Christine Schiefer: It said cat pee. Is that what you wanna look up? I'm like, uh...
Em Schulz: Oh...
Christine Schiefer: Maybe.
Em Schulz: May-maybe not.
Christine Schiefer: Umm... Oh, okay, maybe not. It's not coming up.
Em Schulz: Type in Indi...
Christine Schiefer: Indiana.
Em Schulz: Indiana though.
Christine Schiefer: No, so apparently I could not find anything about it, so... Who knows?
Em Schulz: Oh, okay, well...
Christine Schiefer: You might be on to something.
Em Schulz: See, now I'm gonna go back to saying rumor.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, you're onto something. Yeah.
Em Schulz: So um one news crew came out and uh the staff in the dining room, they said, "wouldn't it be wild if the camera crew uh caught the, the room's chandelier swinging."
Christine Schiefer: Wouldn't it be wild?
Em Schulz: While you're in here, wouldn't it be so silly if you saw the chandelier swinging?
Christine Schiefer: So silly.
Em Schulz: And then it happened. As soon as they said it, they were like...
Christine Schiefer: "Gasp." Ooh, we should try that more often.
Em Schulz: Someone is listening. Wouldn't it be so silly if...
Christine Schiefer: It would be so silly.
Em Schulz: There was like a demonic possession. Wouldn't that be so silly? Umm crews also... Oh the same crew, sorry, the same news crew that came in and got the chandelier, they also witnessed a portrait lifting off the nail in the wall and fall to the ground. You and I can attest to that.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: We have seen that as well.
Christine Schiefer: Certainly have.
Em Schulz: And uhh the attic is uhh apparently the most haunted. Some people have actual trouble getting in there without feeling really sick, and like they shouldn't be there. Some say the darkest energy in the house is up there and shadows will peek around corners at you. Some of the staff is just afraid to go to the attic, they won't even mess with it, and what's weird is there isn't any, anything that's happened historically up there, so we don't know what, what happened for there to be such a dark energy up in the attic.
Christine Schiefer: Hmm.
Em Schulz: Umm in the basement, there are apparitions of enslaved people, uh shadows hiding, which is so sad if it's shadows hiding...
Christine Schiefer: That's horrible. Horrible. Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: As if they're like they still think they have to hide. Umm and a woman, presumably Elizabeth, his wife, is seen looking out the window and sometimes pacing the porch. People have said that they're just standing on the stairs and looking out the windows, and there's just a woman hanging out on the porch and they assume she's just another person...
Christine Schiefer: Whoa.
Em Schulz: Visiting the house. People driving by have claimed to see a man walking around in the front yard and sometimes even riding a pony...
Christine Schiefer: Whoa!
Em Schulz: Umm and it's just clear as day, I guess, and they're like, "oh, look at that man riding a pony in the frontyard."
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God.
Em Schulz: And it's actually...
Christine Schiefer: Full body apparition of the pony too.
Em Schulz: I know. What did the pony do?
Christine Schiefer: That's kinda fun.
Em Schulz: He should be... A fun for him.
Christine Schiefer: Well, I hope it's just a re... What do you call it? Residual like maybe image, you know, that's what I tell myself.
Em Schulz: Yeah, yeah. Okay, that's true, that's true. On the stairs, people have seen a man who we think is Alexander, he's in old fashion... Uh. In an old-fashioned black suit, uh and he is sporting some really thick mutton chops...
Christine Schiefer: Ooh...
Em Schulz: On his head apparently. And he fades away on the stairs after you see him. Now, I have bolded the word mutton chops, which tells me in my notes, I have something to say about mutton chops.
Christine Schiefer: Oh I can't wait.
Em Schulz: Oh, here we go. Okay. This is... I love past Em. Because it literally says note, note for mutton chops, trie to look up history of it, found nothing but did find fun fact about sideburns.
Christine Schiefer: I was gonna say...
Em Schulz: Oh look at me go.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, Burnsides. General Burnsides, right.
Em Schulz: Okay, well, that was the fun part.
Christine Schiefer: Sorry, I thought we all learned that in history class. I thought, I thought I was getting an A plus for my test.
Em Schulz: Well, you are the teacher's pet currently, where everyone's like "boo. We didn't even get to hear... "
Christine Schiefer: I'm sorry.
Em Schulz: "The prompt."
Christine Schiefer: I'm sorry. You could cut it.
Em Schulz: No, no, no. Uh. But yes, apparently sideburns were originally called burn sides because of the uh Union General Ambrose Burnside and he he wore that as a hair style.
Christine Schiefer: Unique facial hair style. Yeah.
Em Schulz: So yes, there's my fun fact. There's your fun fact. Uhh so when the O'Briens lived here, they saw Alexander standing on the stairs also, he had his mutton chops and he would just walk around upstairs, he'd like just kind of have in his own day, and they would also hear voices so often that they just started yelling at him to stop. They, they were like, "you're pissing me off." They would hear moaning, whispering, mumbled voices...
Christine Schiefer: Jesus.
Em Schulz: From empty rooms, like apparently so loudly they couldn't even watch TV at night and that's what really set them off.
Christine Schiefer: Well, that's infuriating.
Em Schulz: I know. Umm people have gotten grabbed and pushed, they have gotten pictures of clear as day figures, which actually I watched a YouTube video of one of the tour guides there, and she showed a picture of her phone where it was by the the secret passageway, and there's a full ass person in the picture, and she's like, no, nobody was in this.
Christine Schiefer: Ugh.
Em Schulz: Umm weird lights appear in the basement, staff have a hard time breathing and sometimes even feel overwhelmed in certain rooms, like overwhelming emotions. Usually, the whole house has welcoming vibes, and in the main areas at least, and it said that in the main areas that's more feminine energy, but the basement and the attic feel very different. They feel very intense. Umm there was a movie called a 'Witch House,' which filmed here, and the crew kept hearing kids running around upstairs and they thought someone brought their kid to work, I guess, so they kept saying, "whoever brought the kids, they need to leave."
Christine Schiefer: Shut up.
Em Schulz: And nobody had brought kids. But imagine being the sound guy and your whole job is to get clear audio and you just keep hearing... 'cause I mean if you have the big headphones on and you're listening in real-time, you're probably hearing EVPs in real time, and nobody else can hear the footsteps, and he's just like, "can you get these kids out of here?" And everyone's like, "what the fuck are you talking about?"
Christine Schiefer: Like what are you even talking about?
Em Schulz: Umm women are heard humming in the halls, uh and when you ask for it to happen again, people have gotten knocking on the walls, uhh there are EVPs, such as... This is just... The the EVPs impressed me. I feel like all of them are like full sentences.
Christine Schiefer: Really long.
Em Schulz: Yeah. So one of the EVPs people have gotten is can you get, can you get out of here? Yikes.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Another one is help me, which is so sad. Another one is, hey, Robb, and Robb apparently used to work at the house.
Christine Schiefer: Hey Robb.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Hey Robb. Uhh and then another one is can't you feel me?
Christine Schiefer: Eww. Eww. Eww. That means they're up close. Oh no.
Em Schulz: That means they want you to feel them too. Ugh.
Christine Schiefer: No, no, no, no.
Em Schulz: Umm on the show... Okay, oh this is... I did have a note about this too. The Paranormal Files is a show on YouTube. They did a pretty incredible job at, at this house, but it was a two-hour YouTube show, I did not watch all of it. I only watched a chunk of it, but the chunk that I watched was really good, if you are someone who was cleaning today or if you've got chores going on in the background, you wanna put something on on your TV, uh watch the Hannah House episode of The Paranormal Files on YouTube, because it's, it's two hours of really good stuff. Um.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I'm gonna watch that too.
Em Schulz: It's uh... Equipment was freaking out the entire time, almost all of it came through from intelligent responses, uh their Ovilus said Manitoba, which umm they...
Christine Schiefer: Manitoba.
Em Schulz: I guess... So one of the next stops, I guess, on the underground railroad after this was getting to Canada, getting to...
Christine Schiefer: "Gasp." Whoa.
Em Schulz: The Ovilus also said, we live in the shadows.
Christine Schiefer: Ewww.
Em Schulz: It also said, there's evil everywhere.
Christine Schiefer: Ewww.
Em Schulz: They got a lot of yes or no responses from uh the Rem Pod and the Ovilus even said yes a lot, like just openly yes to their questions, when they asked, were there ever enslaved people in the house, they got on the Ovilus, the word agree, and then they have this thing called a Dead Bell where if you... Uh. It's like an EMF, but it's like an EMF machine, but instead of spiking like a... Instead of having like a bright light go off any time that the machine says yes, it has, it looks like a literal bell and it will ding in response to you...
Christine Schiefer: Like a, like a bell on like a counter top or like a swing bell?
Em Schulz: Like a, like a... Like you're at a concierge of a hotel. Ding.
Christine Schiefer: And you're obnoxious and you're like...
Em Schulz: Yes.
Christine Schiefer: I need customer service. Okay, got it.
Em Schulz: Yeah, so that it'll go off as yes or no responses, and they were able to get a lot of response from the bell, umm they got word, they got phrases such as people can't hear me.
Christine Schiefer: "Gasp."
Em Schulz: Little boy around you. There are children around here.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: Absolutely. And then they said, "can you ring the bell if the person in the attic will hurt us?" And the bell rings.
Christine Schiefer: Great.
Em Schulz: And then the Ovilus said, look above.
Christine Schiefer: No! No, thank you.
Em Schulz: They were right under the attic.
Christine Schiefer: No, thank you.
Em Schulz: Then two different devices at the same time, said brother and sibling to kinda like confirm that the machines were getting the same energy or the same kind of vibe. Umm they were trying to figure out someone's name and then uh they got the words fill up, and so they think that maybe they were trying to use the words fill and up and the machine to say Phillip, and when they said, "oh, maybe his name's Phillip," then the Ovilus said jackpot.
Christine Schiefer: "Gasp." Ooh, jackpot. That's pretty good.
Em Schulz: Then they asked...
Christine Schiefer: Then and then were like, maybe his name was Jack Pott. And it was like, no, you've gone too far.
Em Schulz: Uh. Then they asked, "Is it an angry man that's upstairs," and the Ovilus said untrue. And then they said "ring the bell if it's an angry woman," and then the bell rings...
Christine Schiefer: Ooh.
Em Schulz: Then they got the phrases hide and you're being followed.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God. It's almost hard to tell what's like with the history, like hide to the, to the enslaved...
Em Schulz: Yeah, it's like and...
Christine Schiefer: People or is it like...
Em Schulz: Hide and you're actively being followed.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: It's like hide, you're being followed and you're on the underground railway...
Christine Schiefer: Right, is it that or is it like currently, you're in danger as you stand there. Yeah, yikes.
Em Schulz: So um anyway, that was, that was just a very small chunk of a two-hour show, I did not watch all of. So if you wanna... There's a shout out to Paranormal Files.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, maybe we can... I texted it to the group, so maybe we can put in the show notes, and that way I can also remember to watch it.
Em Schulz: Oh, good. Well, anyway that is the, the Hannah House.
Christine Schiefer: That was so good Em. Wait, can you remind me what town it's in in Indiana?
Em Schulz: I don't know where in Indiana, I just...
Christine Schiefer: Oh okay. I'm curious.
Em Schulz: I should know. Um I can just...
Christine Schiefer: Hannah House. Let's see. Uh. Oh okay, sorry, that's also the name of like a treatment facility, Indiana. Um it looks like it is in... Oh, Indianapolis.
Em Schulz: Oh, fun.
Christine Schiefer: That's not far from me.
Em Schulz: You know, Indianapolis uh is one of the only places on tour, I didn't get to spend a lot of time in.
Christine Schiefer: Oh well, well, well.
Em Schulz: Wow, wow, wow.
Christine Schiefer: Looks like we have somewhere to go now. Would you ever wanna...
Em Schulz: That's true.
Christine Schiefer: Do an investigation there?
Em Schulz: Sure.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Is there anywhere you're like absolutely not. I'm just curious.
Em Schulz: Hmm, that's a good question.
Christine Schiefer: I don't know why why I've decided now is the time to ask that, but...
Em Schulz: No, uhh we're still learning about each other. I love that. Um.
Christine Schiefer: We are. Isn't that romantic, after all these years.
Em Schulz: Where do I not want to go?
Christine Schiefer: Do you like pina coladas?
Em Schulz: I do like getting caught in the rain.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, do you?
Em Schulz: And I like vir... I like virgin pina coladas.
Christine Schiefer: And I like virgins.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Oh, well...
Christine Schiefer: Sorry.
Em Schulz: Depending on your definition, I'm right here. Um.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I'm sorry that was so inappropriate.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Um, uh. Intrusive thoughts win again.
Em Schulz: Let's see um... Where... Is there a place you wouldn't go? I feel like I...
Christine Schiefer: Maybe some like very demonic place that is like... People get possessed there all the time, you know like that kind of freaks me out, like where people leave and say, "oh, it followed us home and it ruined my life." Like I'm like, I don't think I wanna play that game. You know.
Em Schulz: I mean, that's like a fair one, that's...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah, so anything like... Like if Zac Bagans is just like, "I don't ever wanna go back. I'm terrified," which I feel like you know sometimes he says for for clout or whatever. But if it were like a real spot where investigators were like, "oh no, it damaged my life pretty badly." I think I'd be like hmm no, I'll pass.
Em Schulz: I feel like Zac, Zac Bagans is actually like a good um...
Christine Schiefer: Barometer.
Em Schulz: Gauge for that. Because he's, he's so... He gives off such like the vibe of like, I'm not afraid of anything.
Christine Schiefer: Tough guy.
Em Schulz: If he is actually afraid and like doesn't say, I don't wanna go back just to go back and like make it a whole spectacle...
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: If he really never goes back...
Christine Schiefer: He just silently stops going...
Em Schulz: I would not go there.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, it's almost like scary if he doesn't make it a big thing, just it's like, nope, we're not even gonna address it.
Em Schulz: Yeah, like he... Actually, in Indiana, I think one of the houses that he said, he'd never go back to was um...
Christine Schiefer: Oh yes, yes, in Gary.
Em Schulz: The, the Aiman's house, and it was like a, like the demon house, it was called the demon house, and that was why he had to start wearing glasses 'cause something like flew across the room and hit him in the head and now his eyesight is all fucked up.
Christine Schiefer: Sorry, I can't... I laugh 'cause these are the most obnoxious glasses and it's like okay. Uh.
Em Schulz: He went from I don't wear glasses to look at my glasses.
Christine Schiefer: To like you can basically define me by my glasses now, umm which listen, that's his prerogative okay. Wow.
Em Schulz: Umm yeah, I think if there was a place that other people are just like, don't even fucking try it...
Christine Schiefer: No.
Em Schulz: I mean I think about um the Sedamsville rectory, that's nearby you, and like there was a lot of possession situations there...
Christine Schiefer: Oh really?
Em Schulz: People were like standing in corners like the Blair Witch Project...
Christine Schiefer: Oh no, no, no. Ew. Gives me the heebie jeebies.
Em Schulz: Like their faces were in the corner and they would stand there for like... They would lose hours of time and like they would just stand there. Or like...
Christine Schiefer: Forget it.
Em Schulz: They would go... Like the owner once, I think, like went over to like check the mail and didn't even plan on going inside, and then like six hours later, his wife was like, where the fuck did he go and went to the house and found him just sitting in the basement silently.
Christine Schiefer: Eww. Okay, fuck, I have chills. That's horrible.
Em Schulz: Like shit like that that, I'm like, man not for me...
Christine Schiefer: I think not.
Em Schulz: And then... And then they try to turn that shit into an Airbnb afterwards too, and I'm like how... I'm like do you put out a release? Are you just hoping to not tell anybody. Do you want any...
Christine Schiefer: I will, I will take it upon me to stand right off the property, one centimeter off the property and tell anyone coming to look at this Airbnb or this apartment building like let me know. Here's a pamphlet, this is what you're getting into, 'cause that's not fair.
Em Schulz: Yeah, yeah.
Christine Schiefer: All right, so Em, I have one of those cases for you today that drives us both crazy, which is an unsolved case.
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: "Gasp." Man, I can already tell I'm gonna need two FLTs after this. Okay.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: You might. Umm I'm gonna have an FLT as well, and it's my little seltzer. Um.
Em Schulz: What... I was gonna say, what's your FLT of choice?
Christine Schiefer: Okay, well, I'm drinking my Cycling Frog, Wild Cherry THC seltzer, and I wanna give a heads up 'cause some people get... Some people get all antsy that I'm always high in the episodes and I'm like, I think one time I mentioned that I will sometimes take like half an edible and stuff, not during, when recording really but just in general. And then people have started translating that to like Christine's always high, and the podcast has changed and I'm like "no, I'm just my normal way of being," um and sometimes it probably sounds like I'm high, probably before I ever even tried weed before, so don't worry. Um. But yes, so I'm gonna drink this, it's very low uh THC, and it probably um won't kick in anyway till the end of the episode, so. Don't expect any funsies.
Em Schulz: Just in time for you to...
Christine Schiefer: Just in time for my dad to come over 'cause he's visiting and I'm like, ugh uh okay.
Em Schulz: Excellent. Excellent.
Christine Schiefer: I don't, I don't know how to entertain you, 'cause...
Em Schulz: Hey man, I would not know how to entertain my dad. I'd be like...
Christine Schiefer: I guess I have a parlor... A sitting room.
Em Schulz: You can go home.
Christine Schiefer: I don't know what it's called. I have a living room.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: You have... Your's is a... Your's I think was supposed to be a parlor, but has become a sitting room.
Christine Schiefer: Yes. Oh okay, wait, so which, what's a parlor. Is that the fancy one?
Em Schulz: A parlor is like the fancy one where like people only like really get up to your...
Christine Schiefer: Yes.
Em Schulz: Front door and then...
Christine Schiefer: I think it was traditionally a parlor. Like it was meant to be just really fancy Victorian furniture and like you weren't supposed to sit in there 'cause it has this like crazy fireplace in the ceiling, it's probably meant to be like the show offy part. Um.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: And then we have like the TV, which is where we actually just lay around and watch TV.
Em Schulz: The sitting room. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: The sitting room, exactly. Uh.
Em Schulz: Um. Yeah. Your... It's definitely become a sitting room ground because I feel like any time I go over to your house, that room gets used...
Christine Schiefer: Which is funny 'cause...
Em Schulz: Just as often as in other room.
Christine Schiefer: No, but I, but it's only... Oh, but it's only when people come over, like we never sit in there unless it's like visitors are there. Which is interesting.
Em Schulz: Yeah, but it's weird that you have... You have um really leaned into whether it's on purpose or not. You really leaned into the, let's hang out in the sitting room energy.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, well, and it's also Leona's office. Actually, I'll be honest, she calls it Leona's office, and so... Or she calls it her office, so um essentially, if we're like... Like we'll literally day-to-day be like, "oh, have you seen my iPad?" "Yeah, it's in Leona's office." Like we literally call it that 'cause my mom said it one time, and then Leona was like, "yeah, that's my office." Umm so I think we like to hang out there... I, I mean I do use it when people come over because it's like prettier and usually cleaner, 'cause we don't hang out in there, so I'm like... And it's sunnier, and I'm like, let's sit here, it's such a prettier spot.
Em Schulz: It is also the day room.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, exactly.
Em Schulz: But the morning maybe.
Christine Schiefer: And over in the other part of the house it's just like dog slobber everywhere and toddler crumbs, and so it's, it's kind of like...
Em Schulz: And where I nap. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: And where you nap. So it's a cleaner spot, so I think that's usually why... Anyway, sorry. So...
Em Schulz: Oh no. Go ahead.
Christine Schiefer: That's where I'm at. That's where I'm at.
Em Schulz: I was just gonna say, you're, you're, you are the only person I know like on our generation or like, like my mom's friends. You're the only person I know who like encourages that we sit in the room without a TV, which I...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I like every time I go over my... 'Cause I think just like out of reflex now, my thought would be, oh, we're gonna go hang out, like put something on the TV...
Christine Schiefer: You know what's so funny is...
Em Schulz: And talk over the TV...
Christine Schiefer: I just never did that, like growing up. Like I feel like that's what normal families do when Blaise's parents come over, they always like turn the TV on and I'm like, "What are you watching?" And they're like, "I don't know." And I'm like, "What do you mean?"
Em Schulz: Well, it's like how we watch Ghost Adventures, but we don't really watch Ghost Adventures.
Christine Schiefer: But I struggle with that so hard, 'cause I'm like, well, then I feel like I have to pay attention. Like I don't know, I'm, I'm mentally ill. In case you're wondering.
Em Schulz: I think it's, I think it's intentionally to block out any awkward silences that these days it's like, oh well, we put a a thing on, then once there's an awkward silence, we can just you know defer to the show and be like, "oh, here's a comment I got about the show."
Christine Schiefer: Oh when you put it that way, it sounds great, although...
Em Schulz: I thought that was what we were all doing but okay.
Christine Schiefer: Maybe it's too late for me now, I don't know.
Em Schulz: Maybe, I don't know. Anyway, tell me a horrible thing that I'm gonna get mad about.
Christine Schiefer: Great, so this is the disappearance of the Klein brothers, and it takes place in the '50s. So we're going back in time a little bit. The year is 1951, and Elizabeth, also known as Betty Klein, and her husband Kenneth Klein lived together in a neighborhood called Hawthorne on the north side of Minneapolis, Minnesota. They were raising four sons together, nine-year-old Gordon, eight-year-old Kenneth Jr, six-year-old David, and four-year-old Daniel. All four boys were best friends. Adults described them as inseparable. Uh. The three youngest especially looked up to Gordon who was nine years old, and uh he almost took on that like older sibling nurturing role, which is so sweet to think of like four little boys and the oldest is like nurturing...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: For the three youngest. I just think that's adorable. Especially when you think of the '50s, 'cause I feel like there's always that kind of idea of like boys have to be tough and you know beat each other with sticks.
Em Schulz: Like he's like... Yeah, there's... Sadly, especially in the '50s, at least the last thing you think of with boys is like nurturing and...
Christine Schiefer: I know. I know. So that that made my heart kind of kind of full. Um. He was... Gordon, the oldest was a very responsible child, uhh and Kenneth, their father worked at Northland Dairy Company, which provided his family a pretty stable home and income, and he was also very close with the family. He made sure to spend time with them. He taught his sons to fish, for example. And Betty meanwhile did the classic '50s you know role. She stayed home raising the boys, and she was actually pregnant with her fifth child at this point. Um and when she was busy, she could count on Gordon to keep an eye on the younger, younger boys, 'cause he was just good at being the responsible older brother.
Christine Schiefer: He often took his younger brothers to Fairview, which was a park that was just a few blocks away from the house, um many children in the neighborhood spent their time there, oftentimes, unsupervised by adults. It was just like you run a block down the road, and you can play at the park and meet your friends. It was close enough to home that they could walk there pretty safely, especially in groups with older children, um and instead of taking the sidewalks, it was pretty common for kids to take shortcuts through people's yards, uh for a more direct route to the park. So Betty... Actually, fun fact was one of nine... Or sorry, one of 10 siblings.
Em Schulz: What in the Duggar? Okay.
Christine Schiefer: I know. I know. And her younger brother, Jim, the boys' uncle was pretty close to his nephew's age because she was... There was such a big age gap between her and her younger brother, that her younger brother was actually close in age to her own kids, which is kind of fun, you know when there's a aunt or uncle...
Em Schulz: Very Duggar.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, that's true, that's true. Umm and so he sometimes spent time at their house in the city playing with the other boys, like they were his own brothers, and they loved him and took him in like he was one of their own. All four Klein boys were known in the neighborhood to be very well-behaved boys who followed the rules, nobody ever really worried about them. Uh. Saturday, November 10th, 1951, is when everything went south. So this day was cold. A very cold day. And when you're thinking Minneapolis, I imagine cold takes on a whole other level of meaning, uh a cold day in Minneapolis, but for whatever reason, David, Daniel, and Kenneth Jr., desperately wanted to go play at the park. But Betty was very busy and she was seven months pregnant with her fifth child.
Em Schulz: Yeah, she's like leave me alone.
Christine Schiefer: She's like it's cold as F out there, and you want me to walk over there, and Gordon was busy too. Um. Sources differ on what he was doing, but he later said in an interview that he was repairing the sheath of his hunting knife because the side had come undone and because he was, he was only nine, but he was very responsible and he wanted to stitch it back together and get the project done by the end of the day.
Em Schulz: Was the Allison of the group it seems.
Christine Schiefer: He was. He's like I actually have to look at my spreadsheet for a little bit.
Em Schulz: He, he would know how to call the city I'll tell you that.
Christine Schiefer: He absolutely would know how to call the city. And so he said, "you know what, why don't you boys go to the park to his brothers and I'll meet you afterward." So the young boys went ahead and he said, "I'll be there soon." After a lot of begging, Betty relented said, "all right, fine. Uh. As long as Gordon meets up with you, you can go early." So the boys actually had an established spot at the park where they always met each other, like if if two of them were meeting up later, they would go to the same specific spot to meet up with their other brothers, and it was this large old tree uh beside a sandbox at the north west end of Fairview Park. So the three of them set out in their winter coats, Kenneth was wearing a bright red jacket, and so was four-year-old Daniel, but his was a snow suit. Pretty soon after Gordon finished his project and left to meet his brothers, but when he got to the park, they were nowhere to be seen.
Christine Schiefer: At first, he wasn't worried because again, he's just nine years old, he's thinking like, oh, maybe I, they just forgot to meet up at our spot, so he assumed he would run into them soon enough. He searched the entire park, especially near the rendezvous spot by the tree, and when he felt like he'd been as thorough as possible and checked every single spot, he ran home to tell his mom that he couldn't find his three younger brothers. So she called Kenneth at work and he drove straight home, left work to look for his sons. He took Gordon with him to help look, and they started driving around the neighborhood in case the boys had gotten sidetracked somehow between the house and the park, maybe they had stopped at a friend's house, who knows? And of course, you know it's understandable that young children could get distracted or lost, but these kids had gone to this park from their house so many countless times that it wasn't like, oh, they would have just accidentally took a right turn instead of a left turn, like there's some, somewhere along the path...
Em Schulz: Something had to have happened.
Christine Schiefer: Something... Exactly. Something must have happened, um otherwise, it's not like they're wandering on the wrong street, like they knew where they were going.
Em Schulz: At home, Betty called the police who pretty much brushed her off saying that they couldn't start a search until the boys were missing for 24 hours, which even though it was protocol back then, it's pretty shocking because this is a Minnesota cold... A cold day in Minnesota. And the youngest boy is four years old and they're like out missing, and it's like the police were like, "no, we have to wait 24 hours." And to me, I'm just like, who made that call? It's just a stupid fucking call. Umm so a couple of police officers reportedly did drive through the neighborhood, um but they didn't like really search. They just kind of did like a loop and patrol didn't see anything and went back, but thankfully, the Kleins had neighbors who are willing to jump into action and help. So together, the neighborhood searched by car, on foot, and they looked everywhere for these three boys, at the time, neither Betty nor Kenneth even considered foul play. It was not even at the top of anyone's mind at this point in time, um they assumed maybe the boys got lost or injured somewhere and were stuck, but with night falling and temperatures, like swiftly dropping, they would be in danger even if they were just sitting on a sidewalk somewhere. You know perfectly unharmed.
Em Schulz: Right. I mean it was already... It was already cold when they wanted to go to the park.
Christine Schiefer: Yes.
Em Schulz: At night, it's gonna be frigid.
Christine Schiefer: Exactly, and it's I mean Minnesota winter, like this is no joke...
Em Schulz: Yeah. And it also makes you...
Christine Schiefer: And it's dark early.
Em Schulz: And i-immediately, it's not like, oh, they just ran off and forgot the time, it's so cold that like they would have wanted to come home by now, so...
Christine Schiefer: Yes, true. It's not like they're out having fun for 12 hour... Exactly, that's a good point. Like they would have wanted to be somewhere warm at this point. Um and so by dark, unfortunately, there was still no sign of the three brothers, so people were basically forced to go home and give up until the sun came up the next day, which... That's always a thing I think about with these cases where it's like, when the sun goes down, there's just... You feel helpless like I just have to wait. And who knows what could be happening out there. It's just terrible.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: So late at night, the police called the Klein home for an update, uh they said, "oh, did the boys make it home?" And they were like,"no, they didn't make it home. They're still... "
Em Schulz: Said that a little too chipper...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, like, oh, they made a home right? Nope. They were assuming they had just run away, but no, they had not made it home, so the police finally said, "all right, fine, we'll get organized and start our search in earnest." So the next morning, that is what happened. The official search began. The boys disappearance was immediately major news. Umm it had front page coverage on newspapers in several major Midwest cities and one new station sent reporters to the neighborhood to cover the story. Um and this was a time period when just 9% of American households had TVs. So if television coverage was made of an event that was a really big deal, like the fact that a TV station sent a reporter down means like it was big news because there weren't a million channels and everybody could report on the hippo...
Em Schulz: Sure.
Christine Schiefer: Being born at the Cincinnati Zoo. You know this is like a really big deal. Not that the hippo was not a big deal, but you know what I mean.
Em Schulz: Yes.
Christine Schiefer: So Betty made an appearance on television at this point, and you can still listen to it, it's, it's very hard to watch, at least for me. She said "look everywhere, in your basements, in your attics, any place. They could be there. I'm sure they're cold." Oh, it just makes me feel terrible.
Em Schulz: Ugh, I'm sure they're cold is hard to hear.
Christine Schiefer: It's horrible. It's horrible. She said, "I'm very grateful for all the help that we've got," and she sounds almost like... I don't know if she was sedated, but she sounds almost sedated by like either shock or, or medi-medicine, I don't know, but she just sounds very forlorn and like...
Em Schulz: She's probably already fried of being...
Christine Schiefer: Yes, yes. That's exactly the word. She probably hasn't slept. She's probably desperate. Like it just sounds so detached almost, and it makes it extra sad in my opinion. Um so she genuinely believed that her sons were still alive or holed up somewhere, that somebody could find them in their shed or you know somewhere they were hiding out and bring them home, and she still had not considered foul play. And like if you think about it, back then, it just wasn't a widely publicized thing that people that kids got kidnapped from, in the bright light of day, you know that just wasn't...
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: Really something people considered until like, I think probably the '70s when that... There was kind of that surge. So the Hawthorne families or the neighborhood families were all on edge. Um. This was really an unthinkable occurrence. Uhh kids played outside on their own all the time, and this park was just a couple of blocks away, all of their kids... All the neighborhood kids played in the park and walked there and back with no problem, and now people were like suddenly on edge, nervous, protective. One man who was a child in the neighborhood when the Klein brothers vanished, later said he remembered that his mom would actually accompany him all the way to the park and back, even though that was like unheard of before this event. Um.
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, he wasn't allowed to go out on his own or with other kids anymore, even in a group uh without any, without, without an adult present. Um. And this is just how people kind of shifted their lifestyles.
Em Schulz: That's how it worked for um when we moved to Fredericksburg, I guess, like the year before I got there, or the year that we were there, it was originally like, oh, play outside and I, I don't care, and I'm not even gonna think about where you are, but within... Like right around the same time that we got there, there were two girls that lived in our area, and they were abducted and like killed...
Christine Schiefer: "Gasp." Oh my God. What?
Em Schulz: And there was like, and there were two girls my age apparently, so my mom panicked and was like, "fuck that, like you're just not gonna go outside unless I'm with you." So I, I feel like it's probably a common thing in neighborhoods where this, where this happens...
Christine Schiefer: Oh sure.
Em Schulz: It's just like the parents just completely restructure how they think about safety.
Christine Schiefer: Oh yeah, because it's so close to home. And you think like, if them, why not my kid? You know like... It's like that could happen any day to anybody. Yeah, I feel like that really brings it home, and I mean, growing up like Celine and I would wander all day. Like by the time we were eight and she was six, we would wander everywhere. We would wander into the inner city of Cincinnati and sell Girl Scout cookies on door steps, like we were just everywhere, and there was no trackers or anything, and looking back, I'm like... I mean, it was fine. Nothing really happened. But I'm like, I couldn't do that nowadays. I'm way too paranoid nowadays.
Em Schulz: I, I literally... Even with the advent of like find my friends, I don't know how my mom survived me like going to college, like I just... Even just like the small things, like regardless of like how safe an area is, the fact that we've gotten so good at being able to find people whenever we needed them.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: The fact that... I mean not only was there no GPS, but like texting wasn't even what it is today or like calling wasn't even what it was today, and so I'm just like, man, I can't imagine just hoping...
Christine Schiefer: Just letting them out.
Em Schulz: Everything is going well.
Christine Schiefer: Letting them go. Yeah, and I feel like...
Em Schulz: If I don't hear something, I guess it's okay.
Christine Schiefer: It's funny, I just think about it like my mom was pregnant, she was like working full-time getting her degree, like of course she couldn't just accompany us everywhere right and she's a single mom. So it was like, we would just go play and she would just let us and it was fun and awesome, and like we got so much independence, we got to explore, we got to... But you know it's funny now, I'm like, I don't think I could do that like for my own anxiety, I don't think I could do it, but we'll see. I mean Leona is not big enough yet anyway, but I have a feeling I'm gonna be a lot more um...
Em Schulz: I feel like the second you see her as a six-year-old, you're gonna be like I would never... I, I couldn't...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, she's so little. Who's, who's letting her wander around the neighborhood knocking on... That was the other thing, we would knock on stranger's doors and do dumb shit, like pretending... We would do this thing where we would pretend we thought it was Halloween, this is so embarrassing, and we would go up and knock on a door and be like trick or treat, and they'd go like, it's like Octo... Or it's uh like September and we'd go "What? We thought it was Halloween." Like we literally would play this game and people would be like, okay, what do you want. We'd be like candy. Somebody gave us a can of peaches, somebody gave us um an old watch that was broken. We collected all sorts of random shit doing this activity.
Em Schulz: It's actually... It's just trick or trick. It's just...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yes, yes. Yeah, that's actually a good point. We were just tricking around. Um. Anyway, so we got to wander everywhere, but I think uh I think it's I would be a little bit different about it nowadays. Um so anyway, they did not consider foul play at this point yet, uh but the kids who lived in the neighborhood remembered, later remembered that this shifted how the whole neighborhood... Probably the whole town you know uh let their kids out and about. So the hours ticked by, there was no sign of Daniel, David, or Kenneth Jr., and like Betty, the police had not once considered an abduction or foul play. Their working assumption was that the boys were lost or that they had run away, and Betty and Kenneth just couldn't entertain the runaway theory for even a second. Um even if the two youngest were following their older brother's lead, like why would an eight-year-old run away with his two younger brothers from like a perfectly safe and healthy and happy home?
Christine Schiefer: Um. And none of the other kids had had any of this type of behavior before. They'd gone to the park so many times. It just to the parents didn't feel right. So a couple of days after the disappearance, a woman named Margaret Goodwill made a report that she had seen three young boys sitting on a curb the day the Klein brothers vanished and she said she believed one of the boys was crying. So police brought a dog to the spot and the dog led them on two trails. One trail passed the police station and ended not far from the Klein's house, and the other ended near the banks of the Mississippi river, near the Lowry Avenue Bridge.
Christine Schiefer: The brothers and other neighborhood children sometimes played at the bridge in summer weather, but they would not be allowed up there without Gordon, their older brother. Gordon and his parents didn't think that the boys would have gone on their own without permission, especially in the winter when this was usually like a summer spot. But maybe they got kind of bold and wanted to climb up there without their older brother and like test their independence you know. Um. And so may-maybe that's what had happened, but the Kleins pretty quickly began to question these scent trails that the dog had followed. The first issue being that there was no confirmation that the children Margaret Goodwill had seen were the Klein brothers anyway, so that's the scent that the dog was using to track. And like, who knows, these three boys could have been any other three boys, so it's not even confirmed that...
Em Schulz: Sure.
Christine Schiefer: It was them to begin with. Umm...
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: I know it just like feels like a constant roundabout, like back to square one.
Em Schulz: Yeah, especially 'cause so many kids are playing in the park. It's like they have no idea.
Christine Schiefer: Yes, that too. So many kids, and based on her description of these kids, it really could have been any kids in the neighborhood, any three kids just like bundled up...
Em Schulz: Sure.
Christine Schiefer: You know. She couldn't like see that many specific features. And then the next issue was the route itself, because the dog led police on a long meandering journey that totally, totaled nearly seven miles, and it was hard to imagine a four-year-old walking seven miles in a snow suit for any reason. Like it just didn't quite add up. The third issue is that the dog had found two scent trails, which went totally different places, so it's like well, which one is it, you know?
Em Schulz: Like did they part ways? Like did they split it or?
Christine Schiefer: Right, good point. Could they have split up, um which one of these could be trusted, could any of them be trusted, was it even the three boys, the Klein brothers, that this woman had seen. So it was all just kind of a lot of question marks, and finally, 62 hours after the disappearance, a railroad worker found the first real physical clue, which were two children's knit winter caps that were laying at the banks of the Mississippi river on top of an ice patch.
Em Schulz: Oh, oh shit.
Christine Schiefer: Yes. Yes. And unfortunately, Kenneth confirmed they were his son's hats.
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: Yes, but they didn't, something didn't feel right because he thought it almost seemed as though they had both been placed there next to each other uh on this ice bank by the river. And so he felt a little odd, like it didn't look like they had just been tossed off like a little boy would do it seemed like somebody had taken them and pla... Carefully placed them there, um but regardless, police immediately had developed this new theory that the boys went to play in the river, fell in and drowned.
Christine Schiefer: Uh. So what they did next is they utilized the dams to lower the water level along that stretch of the river, so they could conduct an aerial search, and the pilots reported excellent vision that day. Uh because a lot of the Mississippi river is very wide, deep, incredibly murky, but this area was actually crystal clear and when they lowered the water level, you could basically search the whole thing from the air and see everything.
Em Schulz: Oh wow.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, so I feel like that never happens with these stories.
Em Schulz: No, no.
Christine Schiefer: So the pilots said they could see everything from toilet seats to sunken tires all the way at the bottom of the river, like they could see crystal clear. Two of the boys had been wearing bright red, like I mentioned, which is an ideal color when you're searching for someone in the water, but the pilots did a thorough search of this whole area and found absolutely nothing, no clothing of the boys, no accessories, no more hats, nothing, no red jacket.
Em Schulz: And they're... Was it like cold, like there was snow, like did, could they get like footsteps anywhere.
Christine Schiefer: I don't know that there was snow. There was an ice patch where the hats were found. I don't think um...
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: I don't think...
Em Schulz: Like from a previous snow maybe...
Christine Schiefer: I don't think there would have been... I don't think there would have been footprints. Um as far as...
Em Schulz: Okay. 'Cause maybe they like were just looking for... 'Cause my, my...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, what are your thoughts?
Em Schulz: Maybe they were, maybe they were looking at the, the water and then they decided to leave, but they just forgot their hats, it didn't occur to them to put them back on. I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: Like they had taken off...
Em Schulz: But also aren't you, aren't you so cold that you would want to take... You would never even wanna take your hat off, but maybe if you walked four, seven miles or whatever...
Christine Schiefer: You get heated up...
Em Schulz: You were over heated. I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah, and it's interesting because the trail that the dog followed led to the bank, the river bank.
Em Schulz: And it happened... Like what, what a... But what a coincidence that the dog would pick up a scent and coincidentally find two of your kids' hats.
Christine Schiefer: Mm. No, somebody else found the hats...
Em Schulz: So it had to be...
Christine Schiefer: Um. On a different day.
Em Schulz: Oh shit.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, so it's like either... I don't even know which river bank it was, it could have been a totally different river bank. Do you know what I mean? Like maybe...
Em Schulz: But also I feel like that's... Maybe I'm over thinking it, but it feels a little like... So if someone just called the police and said, I found two random hats, or they were on a search and found the two hats.
Christine Schiefer: Um. So let me re-read the bullet, let's see.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: So I say it properly. So 62 hours after the disappearance, a railroad worker uh found two children's knit winter hats at the bank of the Mississippi river on top of an ice patch.
Em Schulz: I feel like, I feel like if I saw two hats, there have been so many times I'm like walking in a park and like oh...
Christine Schiefer: Right, but this is a town...
Em Schulz: A random glove...
Christine Schiefer: Where they knew... They knew this was going on, right?
Em Schulz: Oh, oh, oh. Right. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: So people who lived in town are highly aware of...
Em Schulz: On top of it.
Christine Schiefer: Anything that might be out of place, and because it was such big news across the entire Midwest, like this is a, this was a big story. So everybody probably would have known um that this was something worth reporting. You know what I mean?
Em Schulz: Sure. Sure. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: And he didn't touch it. That's why like, when the dad said, "Oh, it looks like they were placed there," it's because the railroad worker knew to call the police before grabbing them, you know, and...
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: And was able to show how they had been placed there. Um, yeah, so he, the, the pilots are looking in this water, they see absolutely nothing except for the usual just kind of like trash and other things, but no sign of any three of the boys. And think about it too, there's three boys, like you'd think if even one of them fell in or something happened, like, there would at least be a shoe or you know, something kind of laid around, but I guess the hats were the only thing that they found. Um, so investigators continue to search dams, bridges and the undercut banks like anywhere, maybe their bodies could have gotten stuck if they had fallen in the river and were swept away. Um, and as I've kind of already alluded to, and most people in the US or at least who've lived in the Midwest know the Mississippi River is humongous. Um. It spills out over 1,000 miles south of the Gulf of Mexico... At the Gulf of Mexico. Um, and so it's, it's very possible that somebody could get swept downstream and then perhaps get caught on some debris and never, you know, just end up in a very random spot down the river and never surface again. But it was also unlikely that this would happen to three boys that disappeared at the same time. It's almost like...
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: You'd think a sign of one of them would be discovered eventually on this river bank, on a river bank, somewhere along the Mississippi, um, but they didn't.
Em Schulz: I feel like even there should be like, in the, in the trees, like the twigs caught like, some of the fleece of their hat or something, like...
Christine Schiefer: Exactly, any... Exactly, anything caught by like a branch or a root, or just like a bridge, or like, underneath a bridge where it's shallower, you know but they just... There's nothing. They, they trace the whole river, um, anywhere there... They could have gotten stuck and found nothing. And as they waited, no reports of children's remains or any other signs of the kids, uh, were discovered along the river. And despite no concrete evidence that the boys drowned, the police decided to rule the deaths accidental and closed the case. And this was just five days after they disappeared, so...
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. So very fast, open and shut, even though they didn't solve it. Um, the Kleins couldn't believe it, they were like, "We do not think our kids went to the river that day." Uh, they didn't believe that the dog's track was reliable, uh, the one to the banks, and they just couldn't accept that the police were like, "Oh well, they drowned. Case closed." And so it was one of Betty's neighbors who actually mentioned to Betty, which what a fucker, this neighbor, first of all, said, "Oh, they were probably abducted."
Em Schulz: Oh, thanks, Bud. Thanks, girl.
Christine Schiefer: First of all, thanks. Thanks.
Em Schulz: Thanks babe.
Christine Schiefer: So now, Betty's like, "Oh shit, like I had never thought that before." And so from that moment on, I mean, it's almost a good thing because it was... Well, not a good thing, but you know, it at least got them thinking.
Em Schulz: Yeah, helpful.
Christine Schiefer: It was helpful in the moment of like, "Oh, this is another possibility." And so she and Kenneth, Betty and Kenneth were suddenly convinced, "Oh wait, we think somebody took our sons, that's the only explanation to us that makes sense." And so in the days after the case closed, uh, they are just sitting there wishing they could figure out a way to do something when a post card arrives in the mail.
Em Schulz: Oh no.
Christine Schiefer: The postcard reads, "Dear Mr. And Mrs. Klein, I suppose you are worrying about your three children who disappeared Saturday. Don't worry, they will be all right, if you raise $15,000 by Tuesday, November 20th. If you don't raise the money by November 20th, we will have to dispose of your three children. If you want your three children, drive out on Highway 169 at 11 PM, 10 miles north of Princeton, Minnesota, you will then see a blue Ford by the roadside, inside will be your three children. If you have the $15,000 with you, they will be yours. Don't try any tricks."
Em Schulz: My God. Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: So somehow the FBI got wind of this or caught wind on this, and they got involved.
Em Schulz: Good.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, so on the 20th of November, several FBI agents trailed Kenneth as he went to the rendezvous point, designated on the postcard, and nobody was there. And when the FBI searched the area, they could not find a single person uh, who may have been suspicious in this area.
Em Schulz: Ow.
Christine Schiefer: So potentially, a hoax. Uh, which is...
Em Schulz: Oh, that's so fucked up.
Christine Schiefer: So fucked up. Yes. Um, or they got spooked, who knows. But for whatever reason, they're not, they were not there. Strangely though, when looking back at the case reports, it seems as though the Minneapolis Police were not involved and they didn't even know about the ransom letter, it's like the FBI came in and then like, nobody updated the police, so...
Em Schulz: What? Okay.
Christine Schiefer: They never re-opened the case because they never really caught wind of it. And so the case remains closed as an accidental drowning. But now, of course, the Kleins not only have like, their nosy neighbor making comments, and also... They also received this postcard and the FBI got involved, so now they're definitely convinced that their boys had been um, abducted and they're not even convinced the boys are dead. Uh, so instead, Betty starts thinking, "Well, maybe this is an illegal a-adoption ring." You know, maybe they were abducted and sold uh, into some kind of adoption, uh, situation, uh, a human slavery thing. Who knows? They thought perhaps like, another family had, had split the boys up, and maybe that was why they were hard to find, because it wasn't three of them together, maybe they were separated. And poor Gordon who was nine, had to tell himself that maybe his brothers were being raised in a happy home somewhere, and that was like the only way...
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: He could like, assuage his own guilt, you know.
Em Schulz: You know, as soon as you said, "Oh well, he wanted to sharpen his knife... "
Christine Schiefer: I know. I know.
Em Schulz: "So he wasn't gonna go with them that day,"
Christine Schiefer: You can like, feel it. You feel it.
Em Schulz: I was like, I could just smell the survivor's guilt. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: It's terrible.
Em Schulz: Ugh.
Christine Schiefer: He thought maybe they ended up in a home with more wealth, and as he put it quote, "more opportunities" than they had with their parents. That was like, his only hope of a silver lining. He spent his childhood convinced that one day they would find their way back and just walk in the door and the family would be whole again, which is so sad.
Em Schulz: I mean, you, you think like, at least one of them has to know their address.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: So at some point they're gonna grow up and check out the address. Like it, it seems...
Christine Schiefer: Like, an eight-year-old would know his parents names, you know.
Em Schulz: Yeah, if they're abducted down the block, like, they will eventually return like your thought is they'll...
Christine Schiefer: You think so? Yeah.
Em Schulz: Oof. Oh my God, poor Gordon.
Christine Schiefer: I know, it's really sad. He was obviously very, very affected by the loss. Um, Betty and Kenneth ultimately decided to move to a town called Monticello, which was just an hour, uh, just under an hour northwest of Minneapolis, to try and give Gordon a fresh start. Um, but this was also like an incredibly gut-wrenching decision for them because they...
Em Schulz: Yeah, 'cause what if...
Christine Schiefer: They come back?
Em Schulz: What if the kids come back?
Christine Schiefer: Yes.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: And so they essentially ask the family that lived there to "please, like, keep us updated. If anybody stops by, any weird male, anything suspicious, anything even remotely like intriguing, please let us know." Um, and they have roots and family connections in their new town, Monticello, so they were hoping that maybe their sons could find them there as well, because a lot of their extended family lived there, so maybe like, if they were in this area, they at least knew that this was where they had family. But unfortunately, years went by, and even though the search was fruitless, it essentially consumed Betty and Kenneth's lives for the rest of their lives.
Em Schulz: Sure.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Every year on November 10th, they took out ads and papers, searching for leads. They did this for decades, every single year on November 10th. And every year, calls came in about the boys from all over the country, nothing really led to any real outcomes. They sought help from private investigators, elected official, psychics. Any time they thought there was even a slight chance that a lead could be legitimate, they followed it. Um, it's just, it's just so sad to see like, how this just unraveled you know, a whole happy family because they spent decades with their other children... Because in the meantime, um, they had their son named Donald, who was, who, uh, was seven months in gestation when the older boys went missing. So when Donald was born, he never actually got to meet his three older brothers.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: He only knew, um...
Em Schulz: And I can't imagine being parents to a newborn who needs a lot of your time and energy, and...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, yes, yes, yes.
Em Schulz: But to still be racked with this whole other situation that like, you can't get in... I'm sure there were times where like, they felt like they couldn't give both their energy in the right way or...
Christine Schiefer: And then... And I think to Gordon, like, he's older, so he's probably more self-sufficient, especially if he's responsible, and... So he probably just got kind of pushed to the wayside in a way, you know, it's like... There's so much going on, he probably was like, "Oh, focus on the baby and on finding my brothers." And he kind of...
Em Schulz: Or imagine the responsibility complex of like, I need to take care of this brother even better...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, yes.
Em Schulz: Because the last ones, you know, it's like...
Christine Schiefer: Right. Like, you'd be so nervous about it. I mean...
Em Schulz: The nine-year-old guilt, yeah. Imagine like, not being able to bond with your new brother, 'cause you're like, "Well, I was close to the others and they, they left, so... "
Christine Schiefer: And I let them down or whatever.
Em Schulz: I don't wanna get close to this one. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: So the youngest brother, Donald, said in an interview that one of his parents was always at home when he was growing up, in case one of his brothers that he never met showed up. Um, the family never, ever, throughout his entire life, went anywhere together as like the complete unit, because somebody always stayed behind. And unlike his brothers who learned to fish with their dad, Donald, uh, learned to fish from his mom and do a lot of other things with his mom, so that his dad could continue the search out in the woods and you know, on foot. In 2013, uh two sheriffs from another jurisdiction started looking into the case and they were not officially able to re-open it, only the Minn-Minneapolis police could do that, but they were allowed to use law enforcement resources to investigate it on their own time, as sort of like a research project on the side. And unfortunately, they noticed that much of the original information about the case was lost. For example, boxes containing evidence like the hats found at the river went missing at some point in the decades afterwards.
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: So it's just gone. Nobody knows where it is.
Em Schulz: Jeez, so you can't even do any like, new testing on it.
Christine Schiefer: And that's so sad, 'cause I feel like that happens a lot when things just get kind of shoved into closets and then... Or dusty storage rooms, and then when there's a move, they get left behind or thrown away.
Em Schulz: As in the shuffle. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, in the shuffle. They did, however, get access to some files from a retired police sergeant, including interviews and notes from the original case, and so they were able to actually put together a profile of several suspects, even though these suspects were now deceased. One suspect was the Klein's neighbor when the boys went missing. And several other neighbors reported behavior at that time from that neighbor that they found odd. For example, one day just after the brothers disappeared, the man's neighbor noticed him unloading many sacks of concrete from his truck, and when asked, he said he was laying a new concrete floor in his dirt basement.
Em Schulz: Nope. Nope, don't like that.
Christine Schiefer: One of his friends was scheduled to help him pour the cement, but he cancelled and said he'd rather do it himself, and he stayed up all night pouring the concrete over the dirt floor on his own.
Em Schulz: Nope.
Christine Schiefer: The next day, his friend's wife went to his house and suggested he joined the neighborhood search party to find the Klein boys. He refused and told her they aren't worth looking for.
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: Hello?
Em Schulz: Couldn't, couldn't even fake it? Jeez.
Christine Schiefer: Deserves a punch in the nose. People in the neighborhood wondered if he had perhaps killed the boys and buried him in the basement. Um, he'd also, at that...
Em Schulz: That's my first thought.
Christine Schiefer: I know, right? He also, at that time, replaced the wooden panels in the bed of his pickup truck, uh despite the wood being, having been new and in great condition. It didn't seem like it needed replacing, but he replaced them anyway, according to witnesses. Um, but again, this is all conjecture and like, who knows if neighbors are just like pointing fingers, who knows? Because...
Em Schulz: And probably no like... If, maybe... Oh, sorry.
Christine Schiefer: No, no, no. Go ahead. Sorry.
Em Schulz: You... Go ahead. I was gonna say, maybe... I'm just trying to think of every scenario, but I'm like, what if the, the kids weren't abducted, but what if that guy like hit them with his car and like, and got freaked out that like he killed them by accident and just like took them, and...
Christine Schiefer: Right. And didn't wanna get... Yeah, and went too far.
Em Schulz: Didn't wanna get caught.
Christine Schiefer: You know, I've heard of that kind of thing happening, where it was a freak accident and then the person's just trying to cover it up. You know what I mean?
Em Schulz: Yeah, 'cause I'm thinking like, if he had to replace the wood in there and everything, maybe like, there was blood he wasn't expecting to get in that area, or... But then when you find blood on the concrete of like... If something happened... I don't know, I'm over thinking it, but...
Christine Schiefer: Well, he would have buried them in the basement and then laid the concrete, 'cause his base...
Em Schulz: No, I'm saying, I'm saying on the road wherever he hit them.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, on the road. Oh, I see.
Em Schulz: I don't know, and it's also like a... Anyway, my thought is like maybe he was just like, so ashamed that he couldn't even think about...
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: I don't know. It could also not be him.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, it's possible. It's possible. It could not be him, it could be him. Yeah. It's just too many question marks. Uh, 10 years later, a woman who once lived in the neighborhood reported that she actually believed that same man that we were just discussing had once molested her young daughter. Uh.
Em Schulz: "Gasp." Oh.
Christine Schiefer: So she had accused him of that. Uh. But hearsay was not enough to re-open the case, uh and he died in 1975 anyway. Then there was another suspect, a man who used to work at Fairview Park, and the boys sometimes spent time with this man at the park, and he'd even take them to a nearby hill to go sledding in the winter. And shortly after the boys disappeared, he abruptly moved away to Chicago. And while living in Chicago, he ended up as a suspect in another investigation, the infamous Peterson-Schuessler murder case, involving the murders of three young boys in 1955.
Em Schulz: "Gasp." Uh, ding, ding, ding.
Christine Schiefer: See? Isn't it wild though, because you feel like the first one is like an obvious yes? And then you hear another one, you're like, "Well, no, it's this one." And then you could probably hear the other one where it's like, "Shit, it's definitely that guy." Like, it really makes you think like, man...
Em Schulz: They were all ding, ding, dings in my mind.
Christine Schiefer: I know.
Em Schulz: I... And it could be none of them.
Christine Schiefer: I know. It could be, it could be a freak accident and they fell in the river, but...
Em Schulz: They could have really just gotten lost and never found their way home. I like... I don't, I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. It's, it's like this could have just been all a coincidence, but it's very strange. The, the parallel of him being a suspect in this three young boys murder case in a totally different town, um, but no strong evidence ever linked him to the Klein boys disappearance and he died in 1962, so there's no following up on that. Um, and then this ransom note that the Kleins received, like, this is still kind of a wild card because it could have been a hoax, like the most fucked up hoax ever, um, it could be just someone trying to profit from the tragedy as like, a hoax to get money. But the FBI, for whatever reason, found it believable enough to treat it as legitimate. But then you know, why didn't the person show up? So it, it's... It feels like another twisty dead end that we don't really have answers for.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: So until their deaths, Betty and Kenneth remained certain that their sons were still alive and that they would one day find their way home. When Gordon, the older brother was 75 years old, he did an interview saying he would never get over the loss, but he too believed his brothers were abducted and sold, not drowned or murdered. So the sheriffs investigating the case on their own time, collected DNA from Betty before her death along with the DNA of her other surviving family members, just in case. And although the case is still closed, they did list the boys in databases as missing persons to make the information, uh, and access to the DNA and other resources accessible for potential future investigations, or if they find a John Doe, you know, anywhere. As of today, the case is still considered orphaned or closed. The sheriffs don't have the jurisdiction to open it, and the Minneapolis Police Department doesn't feel it has the cause to open it, so it's just kind of there with no oversight, really. Unless very new strong evidence comes to light, uh the case will likely remain close, so we can only hope.
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: But in 2019, an author, named Jack El-Hai, published his book on the case called "The Lost Brothers," which then became a six-episode podcast called Long Lost, and he actually first began speaking to the Kleins in the 1990s, and for decades, the case and the Klein's endless hope compelled him to like, keep telling their story. And he actually worked with them side by side throughout the rest of their lives to tell their story, and he shared their hope as well, that publicizing the case to a wider audience now with this book, with the, you know, TV series, with the podcast series, would maybe jog somebody's memory, um, or, or let somebody out there know that you know, they might have a missing piece to this puzzle.
Em Schulz: Yeah, well, in today, in... Today, even the youngest boy missing would be in the 70s, right? So...
Christine Schiefer: Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Did you already say that? Sorry.
Christine Schiefer: No, I did not. They... He'd be, I think, like you said, 70... Yeah, it is early 70s. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Yeah, so we don't even know if they're alive anymore, if they survived this whole time.
Christine Schiefer: If they had survived, yeah. So that's the story. It's really, really, um, a fucking bummer, but you know, that's what I do.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Good job.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, thanks.
Em Schulz: Good job bumming me out.
Christine Schiefer: You're welcome.
Em Schulz: Um, man. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like I usually have a, a good guess at this point, but I got nothing, so thank you for your storytelling, Christine.
Christine Schiefer: Yes, and I feel like when it comes to the people getting lost in the wilderness, I feel out of my depth 'cause I'm like, I don't know, nature is scary and wild, and I don't know what could have happened. I don't know what's reasonable. Like, I don't feel like it's my place to be like, "They didn't drown because this... " Like I don't know anything about Minnesota winter.
Em Schulz: Right. I certainly wouldn't survive in nature.
Christine Schiefer: Right, right.
Em Schulz: Even with the best source, resources, I wouldn't be able to do it, so I, I feel like for them to be three little children, no way.
Christine Schiefer: Terrible.
Em Schulz: But maybe they survived it and they just got adopted by somebody and... There... I just watched a Law & Order episode where someone got adopted and they found out later that, um, they had been kidnapped.
Christine Schiefer: Oh yeah.
Em Schulz: But they... But like even the people who adopted them were just like, kind of just convinced them over time. So I don't... It could, it could really be anything. Um.
Christine Schiefer: I know, I know. I hope that some day, there's... I always say this, but like, I hope some day there's just some unexpected advance in technology or, or research that... Like, like DNA evidence, for example, something like ground-breaking that maybe can give answers.
Em Schulz: Time travel.
Christine Schiefer: I mean, yeah.
Em Schulz: I mean, think about... Think of the crime department in time travel, in the time travel industry. Like, we wouldn't even need detectives anymore, we would be like, "Okay, let's just go back to this date, and just... "
Christine Schiefer: They'd be time detectives, time crime detectives.
Em Schulz: I swear to God, if that were a job, I would, I would quit this podcast today and become a crime time traveler, a crime traveler.
Christine Schiefer: You and me both.
Em Schulz: And just like that, that's my dream job. Uh. Wow, we would be so good together if we were partners.
Christine Schiefer: Think of the power...
Em Schulz: Partners in time.
Christine Schiefer: Holy shit. Crime travelers, partners in time.
Em Schulz: Literally, if we don't get shirts that say that, I will cry.
Christine Schiefer: I am writing the book, TM, TM. I've never really meant it before, T the fuck M.
Em Schulz: If you have a cricket machine right in front of you and you don't make me a shirt for my birthday in a month that says, Partners in time.
Christine Schiefer: Oh I'm on it baby.
Em Schulz: Crime Traveler. I, I mean, the way, the way that I need that so badly.
Christine Schiefer: I don't think it's even a shirt. I think... I mean, it will be a shirt, but I think it's a bigger... I think it's bigger than a shirt.
Em Schulz: It's a novella, it's a, it's a trilogy.
Christine Schiefer: It's a novella. Wow. [laughter]
Em Schulz: It's, it's another horrible uh horror, comedy, soap opera like that one I mentioned earlier. Um...
Christine Schiefer: No, it's not.
Em Schulz: Oh, except it's good. Um.
Christine Schiefer: It's, it's a novella. I like the first option better.
Em Schulz: Oh, okay. Well, I hope that was the worst part of your day, telling that story. What, what do you have to look forward to for the rest of your day? But seeing your dad.
Christine Schiefer: Well, I'm finally gonna drink this THC seltzer while we do our after hours, 'cause I have a topic for it already. Um.
Em Schulz: Oh, good.
Christine Schiefer: Can I tell what it is here so that in case people wanna know? So the topic I'm gonna discuss on the after hours today is places to look in old homes for hidden treasures or hidden items and documents that families may have uh hidden away.
Em Schulz: Um, okay. I love that you said that because I was going to end on the fact that I just went looking through an old part of my closet and found a shitload of gift cards. So um...
Christine Schiefer: [laughter] Imagine like, in 200 years, it's like, "Look for under floor boards," and then people find like an iHop gift card, and they're like, "This is treasure."
Em Schulz: Well, that's how I got my drink today, I've got a... So I've been, I've been tearing through these gift cards this week, so...
Christine Schiefer: Where were they in your closet?
Em Schulz: Uh I had them in a like little pouch that I think... I, I know myself well enough to know that the pouch was supposed to go somewhere else, but it just got thrown in the wrong box and so hat's kinda how I found it.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, so it wasn't like, hidden in the walls or anything?
Em Schulz: No, but I can dream. I can dream.
Christine Schiefer: Why was I thinking that? Okay, so... But I'm gonna tell people about like, places in the house to look like, under, you know, in actual infrastructure of the house, so we will do that in the after hours and we'll see you there. What do we call it again now, after hours.
Em Schulz: Last call or something, I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: Shit. I had such a good name for it, but Eva wasn't around, so then I just didn't commit... Uh. It's something creepy. Come check us out at at patreon.com/ something, what is it?
Em Schulz: And...
Christine Schiefer: Tell me what it is first.
Em Schulz: I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: ATWWD podcasts we're terrible at promoing this.
Em Schulz: So after dark is that what we're calling it?
Christine Schiefer: After dark, is that it? Is that what you just said? You just say it.
Em Schulz: That's what Eva said I have no idea what it's called.
Christine Schiefer: That probably right. If Eva said it, I trust it. Uh. Okay, cool. See you there.
Em Schulz: And...
Christine Schiefer: That's...
Em Schulz: Why...
Christine Schiefer: We...
Em Schulz: Drink.