[intro music]
Christine Schiefer: All right. All right. All right. All right.
Em Schulz: Uh, I would like everyone to know what the routine is when we get on here.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Oh, yeah. Please, enlighten me.
Em Schulz: Well, you know it, [laughter] everybody else, if you're wondering what it's... What it looks like five seconds before we get on, every time, almost 400 episodes in...
Christine Schiefer: Okay now...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Christine likes to... Just in case...
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Well, maybe...
Em Schulz: Just in case.
Christine Schiefer: If you wanted to step up and do one, you could do it, too.
Em Schulz: Do... To step up and do what?
Christine Schiefer: Okay. I thought you were gonna complain about how I do the ready, set, go or whatever.
Em Schulz: Oh, I wasn't gonna complain about it, I was gonna compliment it...
Christine Schiefer: You just...
Em Schulz: But we could get nasty, if you'd like. Damn. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Oh were... Were you? Were you? Were you?
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I don't know, in the past, you've really made some faces, so I was just reading between the lines. But anyway, go ahead. Go ahead.
Em Schulz: Uh, Christine likes to just double check with everybody, every time...
Christine Schiefer: Well, you... You, but yes, everybody.
Em Schulz: Me, me, and then like a, a distant Eva's ears, I suppose.
Christine Schiefer: Maybe, yeah.
Em Schulz: Likes to let all of us know, just in case, we're gonna press record and we're gonna go at the same time that the Zoom goes, that the video feature goes. And every time, which is interesting, I do black out right before. And what I... So it is helpful. And what I would like to say is, it's interesting how it mirrors the five seconds after we record, which is every single time Christine forgets what episode we were... We just covered. And...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, after we record. Yes. After we hang up or, like, after the episode ends, then Em has to announce the number aloud.
Em Schulz: I have to say the episode number, so Christine knows how to title her... Her episode.
Christine Schiefer: And then, two... And then four seconds later, I go, what was it, 622? And you're like, no, I said 371. And I'm like, oh, okay. So, it takes a couple times to really register, but I do thank you for your, uh, service in that regard.
Em Schulz: I, I think it's interesting that you're always just having gentle reminders right before, right before, not even a whole minute before. And then I always give a gentle reminder immediately after, not even a minute after.
Christine Schiefer: A gentle reminder. Yeah. I'm the one who needs a reminder. I, I think, I don't really know how to start the timing. I mean, I think we're supposed to clap also and I just, I do... I... It gives me so much anxiety to do the clap that I don't do it.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: And, uh, I don't know if... I mean, Jack, let us know. Are we making your life a living hell? I'm not sure. Umm...
Em Schulz: I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: But it seems to work so far. [laughter] We'll just keep doing it. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Well, someone's clearly in better spirits than last week. Uh...
Christine Schiefer: I mean, I am. Uh, I'm drinking tea, which just never happens. And you know that it's not a good sign, right? Like if I'm drinking tea and not coffee, something is awry. Umm.
Em Schulz: So you're still not feeling good?
Christine Schiefer: I'm feeling like trash, but I'm better. I'm better. I'm better. I'm better.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: I think the thing now is that I'm just like so deeply nauseous and, I, yes, to answer your question, I have taken 72 pregnancy tests because I'm just paranoid at this point. But I've been...
Em Schulz: Ugh, I didn't even think about that.
Christine Schiefer: Uh, I sure did. Uh, I've been nauseated for, uh, days and it's just getting worse because I can't really eat. And so I think I'm hungry but then like, if I try to eat, I just get sick. Anyway...
Em Schulz: Mm.
Christine Schiefer: So I'm drinking tea. Like what the fuck is that all about? Uh, anyway. I... So I'm okay. I'm just really nauseous, but I'm not pregnant. So, huzzah! [laughter]
Em Schulz: All right.
Christine Schiefer: That's the good news, folks.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Uh, Leona reigns for another day. All right.
Christine Schiefer: Literally yesterday in the car, Leona said, my whole family is here. And I said, yeah, it's mommy and daddy, and you're in the va... And she said, and I'm the baby. And, I, in my head, went, knowing I was gonna go home and take a pregnancy test, was like, oh god. [laughter] Please stay that. Please be the baby. I can't do it. I can't do it.
Em Schulz: Yup. Manifest that, girl. That's exactly right.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Girl, you stay the baby for now. Okay? Umm, and so, thank god. She's still the baby. And I'm still a big baby. Umm, and I'm... Umm...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: I'm... My womb is empty and I'm so thrilled. [laughter] Uh, but I can only drink tea. So, you know what, what good is it? I can't even drink wine 'cause I'm so ill. So, you know what...
Em Schulz: So, you might as well be pregnant.
Christine Schiefer: Might as well be pregnant. Nope, don't say that. Take that back. Nope, nope, nope.
Em Schulz: From the universe? [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Anyway. Okay. How are you, Em? I am in better spirits. You're right. As you can tell, I even put makeup on 'cause last time...
Em Schulz: Ooh.
Christine Schiefer: I went downstairs and Blaise said, you look really nice today. And I said, really? Em, tell me I look like shit. [laughter]
Em Schulz: I didn't mean it, but I will say, it was also through a camera. You're about this big on my screen right now, so maybe...
Christine Schiefer: I know.
Em Schulz: I was wrong. But I also, I think I just heard it in your voice, how miserable you were that any perception of you was gonna be bad.
Christine Schiefer: It was very funny because Blaise said it right afterward and I went, is that like his thing? Does he like my sickly Victorian look? Maybe that's what I need to...
Em Schulz: Maybe he's...
Christine Schiefer: Maybe he's into that?
Em Schulz: Maybe he's a little dastardly like that. Maybe he's into the...
Christine Schiefer: Mm, dastardly! [laughter]
Em Schulz: It feels like something Blaise would be.
Christine Schiefer: You're not, you're not. [laughter]
Em Schulz: No. [laughter] I'm very modern. I'm like, get with the program, Christine, let's go.
Christine Schiefer: You're like, put on some fucking rouge. Okay. Come on.
Em Schulz: Umm...
Christine Schiefer: How are you?
Em Schulz: Well, well not pregnant, also. So, umm, I haven't checked.
Christine Schiefer: Congratulations.
Em Schulz: I just got a feeling.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, god... Thank god.
Em Schulz: Yeah. You know when you know, you know, uh...
Christine Schiefer: No, I don't, 'cause I'm constantly in a state of like, is it possible? And then the world's like, no, you are... Like, you just had a baby four hours ago. And I'm like, but you never know. Like I, I feel like...
Em Schulz: I gotta say, people who are heterosexual and active, I would also be terrified constantly.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. It is...
Em Schulz: I don't think you get enough... Umm...
Christine Schiefer: I think from, from...
Em Schulz: Credit.
Christine Schiefer: The day I became sexually active, I... There are texts going back to like 20-whatever year, with Renee that are just like, phew, phew, phew! Like every couple months. [laughter] Like, and there wasn't even, it was like we were practice... Like I'm, I'm, I practice safe sex. Okay. It's just like, you know, there's that 0.01% chance...
Em Schulz: Yep.
Christine Schiefer: Right? That you're always like...
Em Schulz: And you would be the one who gets in that situation.
Christine Schiefer: Right?
Em Schulz: So...
Christine Schiefer: Thank you. You get it. [laughter]
Em Schulz: I, I'd be terrified if I were you. I don't know how you live in constant fear. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: I don't either.
Em Schulz: Anyway. I will... The day will... If I ever get pregnant, that will be a day to really just, the fear will ignite and I won't even... The world will, will absolutely just shiver. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: I can't wait for that... [laughter] I can... Just kidding. I can and I don't want it. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Oh, how am I doing? Umm, I'm sleepy. We're recording earlier than usual. Umm, I...
Christine Schiefer: Sorry.
Em Schulz: I mean, it's not your fault. I, also, uh, we're living in chaos, 'cause we just got sprayed, uh, last week for the roaches.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: And so we're just living in piles currently because everything had to be... Like all of our food, anything that's ever been in a cabinet, is all shoved into the fridge or the freezer or the microwave. Like, it just, like, it's...
Christine Schiefer: A microwave.
Em Schulz: I feel like... It just, just... It's just a little chaotic over here.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. But be, be careful when you turn the oven on, 'cause I've done that where I stored things in the oven and then I preheated the oven...
Em Schulz: I mean...
Christine Schiefer: So be careful.
Em Schulz: Do we not remember like episode one, when my very first, uh...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, yeah!
Em Schulz: Roommate on this episode, like left a toaster in the oven or something.
Christine Schiefer: That Egyptian guy set your kitchen on fire. I forgot about that.
Em Schulz: He melted it... He melted everything in there.
Christine Schiefer: Good times.
Em Schulz: It was... Well, I melted everything in there, but it's because he left everything in there. And I didn't know.
Christine Schiefer: He left a toaster in the oven. Who does that besides me?
Em Schulz: In hindsight, unbeknownst to me, I... Apparently that's a cultural thing. I've, I've been told that that's...
Christine Schiefer: Oh!
Em Schulz: A bit of... By a few people that like, apparently they just, a lot of people that are like Egyptian have used ovens as extra storage, which I guess makes sense...
Christine Schiefer: Oh! It does make...
Em Schulz: But at the time I had no idea.
Christine Schiefer: Well I've done it many times. I think it makes perfect sense. But I've just ended up with a fire extinguisher, you know, as part of the problem... As part of the solution and problem.
Em Schulz: Yeah. It never even occurred to me that it could... I, I get it, but I had not lived with that experience before...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: And I was just...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Just melted everything. Umm.
Christine Schiefer: And you know, it's like...
Em Schulz: Whoops.
Christine Schiefer: When they say like, go out and live in the world., [laughter]
Em Schulz: Yeah. Go learn something.
Christine Schiefer: Sorry. Go live in the world... You get it. Go learn a thing or two. And then like at the end of your days, you're on your deathbed and you're like, wow. I learned that sometimes in Egypt, [laughter] you used, you used an oven as storage. And sometimes my friend Christine did that also. Uh.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Yup.
Christine Schiefer: So, you know what? Uh, we've, we've really grown as people on this earth, I think.
Em Schulz: Uh, thank-thank god, first lesson, check it off. Umm.
Christine Schiefer: Check. [laughter]
Em Schulz: And what else? I, I mean, I don't really have anything going on right now. I'm about to go, uh, to Pittsburgh before you, do a little exploring...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Wait, are you flying out tonight?
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Wow. Like a red eye?
Em Schulz: Yeah. Which I'm kind of upset about.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: I, I wanted to leave earlier because now I'm only gonna have one full day before Pittsburgh to do stuff. I like to try to do at least one and a half, if not two.
Christine Schiefer: I love Pittsburgh.
Em Schulz: Umm, and I think I am probably gonna... Because I'm... There's a lot on my itinerary I'd like to get done and I'm not gonna be able to do it. And I'm really struggling with, like, like just fucking relaxing. I liked... I think I've been using travel as like a place to focus my hyperfixations.
Christine Schiefer: Mm.
Em Schulz: And I've been thinking like, oh, like I'm really gonna take advantage of travel this year and I'm really gonna take advantage of the fact that we're going to so many cities that are really cool, that I've never been to, and I wanna explore. So, if I only get a certain window of time, I have to...
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: Really carpe diem the shit out of that.
Christine Schiefer: Like make the most of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I got you. And so then that adds a pressure of like letting things slip through the cracks.
Em Schulz: I've been waking up super early and going to bed super late, just trying to do as many things as possible because I don't know when I'll be back in that city, to a point where I'm now like falling asleep backstage, [chuckle] because I'm like...
Christine Schiefer: You, literally, we were sitting there, I'm not kidding. Eva... Now, I'm only talking about it 'cause you brought it up but I was not gonna put you on the spot, but now I will. Uh...
Em Schulz: Well, Eva told me later, was like, you fell asleep backstage. And I like, didn't even notice myself nod off. I...
Christine Schiefer: Are you serious? Okay. You were genuinely like...
Em Schulz: Apparently I snored.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah, my friend. You were... We're sitting there just having a perfectly normal conversation, like literally 25 minutes before the show. Umm, what show was that? That was when we were up in that makeshift green room and they brought us all that great cheese?
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: See, that's how I remember shows. I don't know what town I'm in ever, but I know it was great. Umm...
Em Schulz: Yeah, we remember them by the green rooms.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. So we were back there and we were like, Eva and I were coloring the tarot cards you got her and having a grand old time, and talking real loud. And then all of a sudden, you hear...
[noise]
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And we look over, and I don't even mean over, like, I mean we're all three sitting in a little circle and Em is just sitting there in a chair with her head back and just like, [laughter] old man in a BarcaLounger, like asleep. [laughter] And Eva and I just like looked at each other and kind of started laughing. But then we're like getting a little loud, but then it's very clear, you're not gonna wake up, no matter what. So we just went back to our activities. But you really were just snoozing. And then Eva and I were so nervous 'cause we were like, well, we don't wanna wake up... Wake Em up two minutes before the show, then they're gonna have like a freakout. You know?
Em Schulz: Yeah. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Like, 'cause they haven't adjusted to the waking world. Their body has left the building. So, I don't know. You eventually woke yourself up and we just pretended like we didn't see you just snore for 10 minutes. [laughter] But it looked like quite a delightful power nap you got, you know?
Em Schulz: Yeah. Well, I, uh, yeah. I don't really know what happened there. Although, I mean, I've been trying this thing where I'm like, for a long time, up until this tour...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: I have been so, truly, I don't know another word, but catatonic.
Christine Schiefer: Yes.
Em Schulz: Paralyzed with fear at the idea...
Christine Schiefer: There doesn't need to be another word. Catatonic is, encapsulates the entire essence of your being. [laughter]
Em Schulz: I'm like, I'm not who... Like what you're hearing and, and to all the people who, like, are writing online, like, oh, I'd love to meet you. If you ever met me right before a show. You, you... I'm not this.
Christine Schiefer: And some have. And some have.
Em Schulz: And some have. And I feel bad... I still think about them. I'm like, oh my god, they got the worst experience ever because I'm...
Christine Schiefer: No, you... But you always apologize, which is so sweet. You're like, I'm sorry, I'm like this right now. [laughter] You're always very, very kind and understanding. But yeah, you, you really aren't feeling it.
Em Schulz: Well, I've always been, umm... Like I've been, I'm trying really hard, shoutout to Jordan, all the therapies, like going okay so far. I'm like, I'm, I feel like I'm a different person backstage than I have been in the past...
Christine Schiefer: You are.
Em Schulz: Umm, and one of the things that I'm trying to do is, instead of, in the past, I would just like lie in the hotel room and just like think about like, like at some point, today, I have to leave the hotel and get in a car, and go to the theater and, and...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Your, your anxiety is...
Em Schulz: You have to experience my [0:13:07.8] ____.
Christine Schiefer: Just cycling and cycling and cycling. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Yeah. So now, I'm trying to do a thing where like, I force myself to leave the hotel room and the show just feels like another thing for the day, where it just feels like...
Christine Schiefer: I like that, it's an errand.
Em Schulz: A to-do list, essentially.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Which like, not that I don't want other people to think, you know, anything negative on that, but I think my brain has to treat it as something smaller than it is. So I've been trying to...
Christine Schiefer: I think that's very, very smart.
Em Schulz: I've been trying to do a lot of stuff before and after, where I'm like, oh, I'm gonna have a whole day and then I'm gonna get to the theater, I do a quick little show, quick little show, quick little show, and then I'm like, gonna go to the bars and I'm gonna go out and try this restaurant...
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Okay. Okay, okay. Okay. I forgot about this. And this is so funny because I meant to bring this up. Blaise and I were just talking about this.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: And he reminded me, because I had been drinking. So, I was like, I don't totally, I mean, I... I wasn't blacked out, but I was like, there was so much going on I didn't really remember. But Blaise remembered in Chicago, [laughter] the day of the show... [laughter]
Em Schulz: What?
Christine Schiefer: It was so funny... The day... Blaise still talks about... The day of the show... Uh, so we did the show in Chicago. It was great. It was awesome. My sister came, umm, I found a peephole and like looked at everybody inappropriately like a little pervert. It was a whole thing. Anyway, we'll talk about that another time. But as we were leaving, the car was waiting outside. And uh, so we all get in the car and Em was like, oh, I'm... And Blaise, uh, came to the... Wait. Yeah. Blaise came to the show as well, so he got in the car with us and my sister and we're all heading back to the hotel. And Em was like, oh, I'm gonna go out and see some bars tonight and go bar-hopping and see some sights. And I'm like, I'm going to bed. And so we're on our way back and we're about to, the car's about to start and Em goes, oh wait, I just realized that the first place I wanna visit is only 150 feet from here.
Christine Schiefer: And so like Em, like yeets themselves out of the car and says, hey, you take the suitcase. And I'm like, okay. And Em runs off, right? So we're about to get going. We're like, all right, I think we're all set. Let's go. And like, the guy turns the car on, we're about to go, and Em comes right back, [laughter] leans through into the back row of seats, and goes, Christine, can I have $10 for cover? [laughter] And I'm like, [laughter] what am I, your dad? So I'm like, okay. So, and I like go through my bag and I'm, I mean, it's tour money, like it's money that like is communal for us to use. So, it wasn't like, I was like, loany, but you were like, can I have $10? And so I was like, here's $10, go buy yourself an ice cream. And you go running off into the middle of the night, like [laughter] 11:30 at night. And Blaise was like, it was the wildest thing. Em just ran back and asked you for 10 bucks and then just fucking bolted off to... Off to, I don't know, see the sights, uh, go live the nightlife. You know? Umm...
Em Schulz: I do remember thinking, I was like...
Christine Schiefer: It's one of the funnier...
Em Schulz: I was like, I don't think they've ever seen me run before, but I was running 'cause I knew I was about to miss the car.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, you were running, [laughter] you were running, you were like, I need that 10 bucks for cover. And I was like, first of all, the fact that you don't drink and they still want a cover from you is incredibly rude. Like...
Em Schulz: Yeah. Well, hey, I...
Christine Schiefer: Whatever.
Em Schulz: I can agree to that, for sure.
Christine Schiefer: Oh wait, I guess it's not, 'cause you're not gonna spend the money on booze, so maybe they want you to spend the money on... Anyway. Umm.
Em Schulz: I definitely spend more money on a cover than I do on my own mocktail that's $4 but umm.
Christine Schiefer: True. But I do think it's funny that like, first of all, I never have cash on me, ever. Umm...
Em Schulz: I know.
Christine Schiefer: I'm not saying that just to not...
Em Schulz: Uh, you would think covers these days, they would just have like the square and be like, just tap your phone.
Christine Schiefer: You'd think so. Because I, I, I was so shook that I even had 10 bucks, but it's only 'cause Willie Nelson has been apparently giving gas money to artists who are touring. And so sometimes, we go to a show.
Em Schulz: Yeah. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And a venue's like, oh, Willie Nelson gave this to you. And we're like, what? And they're like, well, he gave it to everybody, not just you, but it feels very special.
Em Schulz: Yeah, uh I... Willie Nelson, uh, is responsible for like half of the tour merch I have now. Like, and like...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, he, he...
Em Schulz: He's given us laundry bags for our suitcases and...
Christine Schiefer: Oh the laundry bags. Game changer. They even say, on the road, again, 'cause I guess he's doing this like thing with venues where he's like helping pay, kind of like offset the cost of like gas and things like that for when you're touring. So it's been awesome. But basically, Willie Nelson... I call him Uncle Billy. Umm, but he paid for your cover. I, I just kind of was the middleman, so to speak. You know. Umm...
Em Schulz: When that gets lost in translation, yes, Willie Nelson did come to a bar with me and he, he paid my cover charge.
Christine Schiefer: [laughter] He did.
Em Schulz: It was so nice.
Christine Schiefer: It was so thoughtful of him.
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, he wants you to have a good time. So I'm glad you're exploring more...
Em Schulz: Thank you.
Christine Schiefer: And having a, it seems to me, as an outsider, but it seems like you have really been, umm, I don't know, finding, finding your chutzpah again. Your love of life.
Em Schulz: Well. Thank you. All that to say, I'm a little, I'm a little bummed that I'm not gonna be having the amount of time that I would usually like in Pittsburgh, 'cause one day does not feel like enough.
Christine Schiefer: Well, Pittsburgh is only four hours from my house and I love Pittsburgh. So if you ever wanna do a little roadie trip...
Em Schulz: You could do a little roadie, roadie trip in the direction of the show you have the next day and you could come hang out with me.
Christine Schiefer: I am. I'm flying out tomorrow.
Em Schulz: Oh! I thought you were coming in the next day. Okay. Fine.
Christine Schiefer: No. I'm flying tomorrow.
Em Schulz: Fine. You... You win that one.
Christine Schiefer: Now you're trapped... Now you're trapped into hanging out with me.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Uh, quickly let's talk about a story before it gets like even hotter in here, all of a sudden.
Christine Schiefer: Change the subject.
Em Schulz: Oh god.
[pause]
Em Schulz: Okay. I ha... I do have a really, uh, a story for you. Uh, a, uh, one that I spent quite a lot of time on, I'm very excited about.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. Oh, uh, oh.
Em Schulz: Umm, I don't know how this hasn't been covered before, but we are covering the Dakota.
Christine Schiefer: Is that a boat?
Em Schulz: It sounds like a boat, but it's not.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I don't know what that is.
Em Schulz: I don't, I don't expect you to know.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. [laughter]
Em Schulz: But, uh, this is a building on Central Park West and West 72nd Street in New York.
Christine Schiefer: Gasp. I've heard of this.
Em Schulz: Oh, so you do know what's going on?
Christine Schiefer: Uh, I think so, a little tiny bit.
Em Schulz: Okay. I tried to add in a lot of fun facts for you.
Christine Schiefer: I can't wait.
Em Schulz: Okay. So this building was established in 1880 and was finished in 1884. Like it took those four years to be built. It's called the Dakota Building. And it's a luxury apartments for the rich and famous.
Christine Schiefer: Mm. That's why I know about it.
Em Schulz: And it's apparently, apparently very haunted.
Christine Schiefer: Remember what I knew about it, but really I thought it was a boat, so clearly, I don't know anything about it.
Em Schulz: The range of knowledge in the last two minutes from you has been interesting. [laughter] Because you went from, I don't know, to aha, aha, here we are.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I'm rich and famous, so I sure do know. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Uh, you're definitely not rich or famous enough for the Dakota, I'll tell you that. They would laugh in your face. And...
Christine Schiefer: Certainly not. I, again, once again, let me clarify, I thought it was a big boat. So, I am [laughter] I'm not the person to ask.
Em Schulz: I... I think if you tried to go in there, they would say, uh, you're not welcome here. But there is an old dirty boat you could probably sleep on somewhere. [laughter] So...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, you're looking for that Dakota? Yes. Please go under one of the bridges. You'll find it there.
Em Schulz: Uh, there... So this building was originally headed by Edward Clark, who was the sewing machine magnate. There had to be one and he...
Christine Schiefer: There had to be. What about Singer?
Em Schulz: He founded the Singer Manufacturing Company.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Okay. Okay.
Em Schulz: Uh, this building was also designed by the same guy who did The Plaza Hotel and the Waldorf Astoria.
Christine Schiefer: Ooh la la.
Em Schulz: So, immediately, swanky.
Christine Schiefer: Uh-huh.
Em Schulz: Edward Clark said, this is what we're doing and it's gonna be big.
Christine Schiefer: And it's gonna have beautiful little crown molding. Probably.
Em Schulz: Probably. Probably. Uh, the complex originally had 65 apartments. Umm, but when I say apartments, I don't obviously mean my like dirty roach-infested apartment. [laughter] I mean like, these apartments are...
Christine Schiefer: With a toaster in the stove.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I, like these apartments are Gossip Girl apartments where like they're...
Christine Schiefer: Ooh.
Em Schulz: Like they're... I, I, I've never understood. It's such a baffling concept to me when rich people are living in obviously not an actual apartment and call it an apartment, I get that it's like stacked homes on...
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: In one building. I get it. But like...
Christine Schiefer: Do you think they call it an apartment or do... Is there another word for it? Like this is my...
Em Schulz: Serena van der Woodsen did on Gossip Girl.
Christine Schiefer: She did. Okay. Yeah. Well that's...
Em Schulz: She's...
Christine Schiefer: That's that then, that answers that question.
Em Schulz: I don't know any tighter source. So...
Christine Schiefer: True.
Em Schulz: Umm, [laughter] but yeah. And they call it apartments all throughout every note that I found. I mean, they call them apartments and... But apparently, there were supposed to be 65 of them. Each of these apartments ranged from four bedrooms, poor, gross, to like 20 rooms each.
Christine Schiefer: All right. Acceptable.
Em Schulz: Yeah. [laughter] Umm, so originally, 65, each with like, let's say, an average of like a dozen rooms each.
Christine Schiefer: Pfft.
Em Schulz: And now, instead of 65 apartments, it's 103 because the stables that came with this, remember it was built in the 1880s...
Christine Schiefer: Sure.
Em Schulz: So they needed a place for their horses. Uh, those, that's... The stables have now been turned into their own condos, so that they added even more apartments after that.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my.
Em Schulz: One source said that this building is nicknamed "the Dracula" instead of "the Dakota" because of its dark menacing appearance...
Christine Schiefer: Gasp.
Em Schulz: Umm, and it was, it does look kind of like, it's a little spooky. Umm.
Christine Schiefer: It's like gothic style?
Em Schulz: Very gothic. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Mm.
Em Schulz: But it does have, obviously all the modern amenities. It's essentially a five-star resort. They had all the things that the van der Woodsen would love, with like uh clay tennis courts, grass croquet courts, a rose garden.
Christine Schiefer: Ooh!
Em Schulz: Soundproof walls, fireproof staircases, room service, a restaurant inside, a laundry system, uh, or a laundry service. A gym...
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: 24/7 round the clock housekeeping staff, elevator operators, and it had its own in-house power plant, so the AC would never go out or the heat would never go out.
Christine Schiefer: Oh! Okay. My priority is the laundry. I don't really care about anything else but the laundry service, man, I could use that.
Em Schulz: I could use that, too. But also, I wonder if they even have... Well in the 1880s, I was like, where are their own washing machines? Why do they have to have shared laundry services? I understand, in the 1880s...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Umm, the building also has original gas lamps from when the building was built...
Christine Schiefer: Whoa.
Em Schulz: And they're still at the front entrance and their boilers are so powerful, that they could heat everything in a four-block radius if it wanted to.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my god. But they don't want to...
Em Schulz: But they don't.
Christine Schiefer: No.
Em Schulz: We, we could help others but we won't. No, no, no, no...
Christine Schiefer: But why would we? [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Fun fact, Edward Clark, the founder of this place, his apartment here... This is so fucking bougie, had sterling silver floors.
Christine Schiefer: What? [laughter]
Em Schulz: Can you...
Christine Schiefer: So, they have to polish the fucking floors to make sure they don't tarnish?
Em Schulz: That's what I was gonna say. Can you imagine the polishing? I can't imagine a more inconvenient floor.
Christine Schiefer: I mean, truly, like the worst best, like if you're looking for like the most obnoxious material to use...
Em Schulz: Like proof of status.
Christine Schiefer: That's it. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Like you would have to hire, again, round the clock care for your floor. And like...
Christine Schiefer: Like.
Em Schulz: Also, it would always smell like shoe polish. It would...
Christine Schiefer: Silver polish. They'd be just like down there, like tiny little circles on the floor.
Em Schulz: Part of it would always look like gross 'cause they're just scrubbing into it.
Christine Schiefer: Huh...
Em Schulz: And also, are they on their hands and knees? Unless he created...
Christine Schiefer: For suresies.
Em Schulz: Unless he created some oversized...
Christine Schiefer: A Swiffer?
Em Schulz: Yeah. Mop or something.
Christine Schiefer: I doubt it. I'm sure they were down there.
Em Schulz: I doubt it, too.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Umm, another fun fact, I mentioned that there were fireproof stairs...
Christine Schiefer: Uh-huh.
Em Schulz: What I meant by that is that the architect wanted to avoid fire escapes. Yikes.
Christine Schiefer: Oh... Oh sure. So, unsightly.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Which I, one, probably 'cause they were unsightly, two, the... I think the plan from the beginning was the rich and famous would be living here. And so, I think it was supposed to be like a safety thing, in terms of creepy people like...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, to climb up? Okay. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.
Em Schulz: Like, let's not, let's not let people be able to get in any other way except through the front door.
Christine Schiefer: To access. Gotcha. Okay.
Em Schulz: But still this place is just like a walking fire hazard. Umm.
Christine Schiefer: Right, right.
Em Schulz: So they fireproof the stairs, the architect, literally, there's a quote, "Slathered mud from Central Park between the layers of brick flooring."
Christine Schiefer: What? [chuckle] So that...
Em Schulz: Just to, just to give it extra insulation or something? I mean, it soundproofed it and fireproofed them. So...
Christine Schiefer: Sure.
Em Schulz: And I do like the idea of a whole building for the rich and famous already being soundproofed, 'cause can you imagine the Gatsby parties and if you're a musician...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, imagine.
Em Schulz: If you're a musician, you know that you're not gonna bother your tenants.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. I like that.
Em Schulz: That's a fun little... Fun little thought.
Christine Schiefer: And if you're a... If you're a wealthy serial killer, nobody will know.
Em Schulz: Right. No one will hear your screams. Exactly.
Christine Schiefer: That's right.
Em Schulz: So anyway, the building, somehow, since the beginning has not needed fire escapes, which is lovely but there are 10 floors and over a hundred apartments and no fire escapes.
Christine Schiefer: Cool.
Em Schulz: So when the day comes, we'll hear about it.
Christine Schiefer: When... [laughter] Okay. Whoa. That's ominous.
Em Schulz: I mean, that's a be... That's a be... But... I mean, it's amazing, there hasn't been a single safety issue...
Christine Schiefer: Well, I'm sure nowadays, right...
Em Schulz: Since the 1880s.
Christine Schiefer: But they have to have like, but they have to have like updated it to code. Right? Like legally, somehow?
Em Schulz: I don't know, maybe... I... I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: I don't know.
Em Schulz: I didn't look that far. I didn't wanna know. I like the mystery.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Umm, another fun fact, because this place does look a little creepy, this building, was, did all the exterior shots for the movie, Rosemary's Baby.
Christine Schiefer: Gasp. That's why I've heard of it. And not that I've seen that film, obviously, but, uh, I have, I've listened to an episode on this, I think Lore or something, but it was very short one.
Em Schulz: Ooh.
Christine Schiefer: So I, I only know the bare bones.
Em Schulz: Well. Yeah. So, in the book, Rosemary's Baby, that I guess the movie was adapted from...
Christine Schiefer: Mm.
Em Schulz: In the book, the hotel or the apartment complex is called the Bramford, and I was a little confused. There was one source that I think said that the Bramford was inspired by this building. Like this is literally the Bramford that someone wrote about, and just changed the name in the book.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: Or this building just looked so similar to what people thought the Bramford would look like, that they filmed the exterior shots there.
Christine Schiefer: I see. Okay.
Em Schulz: So, I don't know, chicken or the egg. I don't know which one.
Christine Schiefer: Mm.
Em Schulz: But anyway, this is, if you've wanted to see it before, if you've watched Rosemary's Baby, you have seen it. Notable residents who have been here, uh, because these are like the upper class of the upper class, the, the echelon, upper echelon, if you will.
Christine Schiefer: Ooh.
Em Schulz: Notable residents of the Dakota have been, and since this started in the 1880s, these are people that maybe we don't know, but they were very famous for their time.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, great. [laughter] Okay. Gotcha.
Em Schulz: Uh, Lauren, Lauren Bacall, who was, umm, Humphrey Bogart's mom.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: Uh Ste... The Steinway family of Steinway pianos.
Christine Schiefer: Pianos.
Em Schulz: The au... The author, umm, Harlan Coben, Bono, Tchaikovsky.
Christine Schiefer: Jesus!
Em Schulz: Boris Karloff, who, uh, was uh Frankenstein or...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Which is like so interesting that Frankenstein moved into the, the Dracula.
Christine Schiefer: The gothic... Yeah. The Dracula. Yeah. True!
Em Schulz: [chuckle] Rosemary Clooney or George Clooney's mom.
Christine Schiefer: Rosemary's baby.
Em Schulz: Rosemary's baby... [laughter] Connie Chung, Judy Garland.
Christine Schiefer: Wow!
Em Schulz: And Mr. Maury Povich.
Christine Schiefer: Shut the fuck up! [laughter]
Em Schulz: He... He made it. I don't know how, but he made it.
Christine Schiefer: Come on, Maury. Okay.
Em Schulz: Umm, now here are some celebrities who have been rejected.
Christine Schiefer: Gasp.
Em Schulz: Umm, which is wild because when I think of like Maury Povich, I'm like, in my mind...
Christine Schiefer: Uh-huh.
Em Schulz: Even though he's rich and famous, I'm like, the echelon is dropping, I think.
Christine Schiefer: I feel like it's not like this... He's rich and famous, but I, yeah. I would say he maybe doesn't have like the same status. Uh.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm, the air. The air.
Christine Schiefer: In the social sphere. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Umm, hmm.
Em Schulz: But so he made it...
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: But guess who didn't make it?
Christine Schiefer: Who?
Em Schulz: Cher?
Christine Schiefer: No way!
Em Schulz: Guess who didn't make it? Billy Joel.
Christine Schiefer: Heh?
Em Schulz: Guess who didn't make it? Madonna. And, and...
Christine Schiefer: Is it... They're all singers. Is that something?
Em Schulz: I don't know. Maybe, maybe the...
Christine Schiefer: I don't know. Soundproofing...
Em Schulz: The property manager, she really liked watching Maury, you know. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Maybe... [laughter] Maybe the soundproofing wore off that they're like, we're not... Cher, get out of here.
Em Schulz: [laughter] Right. Exactly.
Christine Schiefer: That mud, that mud in the, in the floor doesn't really work very well. We forgot that. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Yeah. Uh, Cher, Billy Joel, Madonna, Carly Simon, Alex Rodriguez, or A-Rod...
Christine Schiefer: Gasp.
Em Schulz: Umm, Judd Apatow, and...
Christine Schiefer: Oh my god!
Em Schulz: Power couple, Antonio Banderas and, uh, Melanie Griffith, who, by the way, have a daughter named Dakota, umm, Dakota Johnson.
Christine Schiefer: Uh-huh.
Em Schulz: And I just watched her awful, awful movie, Madame Web in...
Christine Schiefer: I, I saw your TikTok.
Em Schulz: Beyond... I mean, I went in knowing it was gonna be bad.
Christine Schiefer: I love Dakota. I love Dakota, though. I love her.
Em Schulz: Her interviews for this movie are hysterical, 'cause you can tell that she's just...
Christine Schiefer: Is it awkward that she like...
Em Schulz: She's just fulfilling a contract. Like she, clearly, I think she also is not super stoked about this movie. [laughter] So...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, I saw your TikTok about it. I didn't know what was happening, but I read the comments and kind of figured it out. But [laughter] umm, there were comments, like, oh, poor Dakota. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Uh, it's very clear that I think she needed the paycheck or wanted a paycheck or whatever, and now she's just handling her obligations...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: But in the interviews, the things that she... She, [laughter] they're like, tell me about the movie. And she's like, well, it's a movie.
Christine Schiefer: She's like, do I have to?
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Uh, anyway, so those are some people who got rejected. Apparently, applicants have to go through like years and years and years and years of taxes and financial statements, just to.
Christine Schiefer: Oh!
Em Schulz: Like even qualify to live here. Umm.
Christine Schiefer: So now we know Maury is a very upstanding, financially-savvy guy, I guess.
Em Schulz: He's got, he's got himself a good money manager, I guess.
Christine Schiefer: Great for him.
Em Schulz: Umm, but apparently, some people have been leaving in the last few years. Uh, when they, when they sold their apartments, they said that they're noticing the building is no longer like, focused towards creatives. And it's more like they're just picking rich people, which, uh, I don't know really how I feel about that.
Christine Schiefer: Hmm.
Em Schulz: It's just a fun fact for everybody else, I guess. Umm, but I feel like I would also probably just... If, uh, if my whole thing is rich and famous people, maybe the famous part is really inconvenient, or like the creatives part is like, maybe it is really loud. I, I don't know. [laughter] So...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. And it's so...
Em Schulz: Or maybe it's supposed to be like a safe haven where, you know, they can all live in apartments and not feel like they're being stared at. I don't know what the upside of either side is.
Christine Schiefer: Do you also feel like, that must have hurt Maury's feelings.
Em Schulz: [laughter] He's like, I'm very creative. [laughter] He's like, well, where... Is that how I got in then?
Christine Schiefer: Hey. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Well, fun fact, uh, again, the Dakota is one of the most haunted buildings in New York or one of the most haunted apartment buildings in New York and it's even allegedly cursed. And this theory is a little wild, but not... I feel like it still gets like, at least like a little footnote. It's a fun little mention.
Christine Schiefer: Mm.
Em Schulz: That someone has the theory that because the in-house power plant has a, a lot of electrical energy, plus all of the celebrities that live here, their creative energy, together...
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: Go hand in hand, fist bump, and create powerful spiritual energy. And that's why this place is really haunted. Like, okay.
Christine Schiefer: Whoa! I think that's giving the celebs a little too much credit, but, you know, maybe not. I don't know.
Em Schulz: Or the power plant, I don't know. Umm.
Christine Schiefer: Or the power plant. [laughter] Yeah.
Em Schulz: So, the paranormal history goes back at least to the 1930s, which would be only 50 years of the building being around. It could be earlier, but we at least know through the 1930s, there were spirits here. In the 1930s, the ghost of Edward Clark, the founder himself...
Christine Schiefer: Mm.
Em Schulz: He appeared in the basement to multiple electricians who would go down there.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: Umm, there's one report of an electrician showing up and in the basement, running into a short, but very long-nosed man.
Christine Schiefer: Short, but long-nosed. Okay.
Em Schulz: And he had a big beard. And apparently this guy approached him, glared really intensely at him, and then ripped his own toupée off and started shaking it around.
Christine Schiefer: Oh dear!
Em Schulz: And apparently, it happened, I think like four times after that.
Christine Schiefer: What?
Em Schulz: Like, like electricians just kept having this happen to them in the basement, which like...
Christine Schiefer: Oh my god.
Em Schulz: What does it mean? Like, what...
Christine Schiefer: What does it mean?
Em Schulz: [laughter] What a cipher. I'll, uh like uh... [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: What the fuck? That is one way to leave a lasting impression as a ghost, I would say, uh. Wow.
Em Schulz: I I feel like, I feel like, umm, some of the, the sites I was looking at, their theory was like, maybe he was just so mad at how a previous elec... Uh, electrician did it, that there's residual energy of a time where he got so mad, he just started like.
Christine Schiefer: Oh [laughter]
Em Schulz: Rattling around. But like, why would you rip your own hair off and then shake it around?
Christine Schiefer: I mean, I've tried to rip my own hair out, out of frustration, but [laughter], yeah. I imagine someone with such decorum as this guy, as this very wealthy man...
Em Schulz: Mm.
Christine Schiefer: With sterling floors. That really surprises me [chuckle] that that's kind of his lasting image.
Em Schulz: It honestly doesn't shock me that someone with sterling silver floors actually was a bit of a loose screw, like this... Like... [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: That's... Okay. Fair... You know what? Fair point, fair point.
Em Schulz: A little too tightly wound.
Christine Schiefer: A little bit.
Em Schulz: So, apparently, they didn't know who this guy was until the electrician actually saw a painting of him and realized that it was the founder of the building.
Christine Schiefer: [laughter] And then they like covered up... He like saw a painting and then he like covered up the hair and was like...
Em Schulz: Yeah, they had to repaint it on.
Christine Schiefer: Oh yeah. That is the right guy. [laughter] Now I recognize him.
Em Schulz: There's a guy also, uh, that haunts this place named Joe. He thought that the... That the Dakota was haunted and when he died, more activity than ever kicked up in this building, doors would lock and unlock themselves, open and close themselves. The elevators would start and stop themselves. And this was at a time when they were like manually-operated elevators. The trash bags would levitate, which I didn't know you and I could levitate.
Christine Schiefer: Huh. Pfft. [chuckle] Thank you for including yourself in that.
Em Schulz: [laughter] Oh, I'm sorry. You and you, also, umm, 'cause why not?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. You... [laughter] Yeah. I knew that but...
Em Schulz: Cheap shot, but I had to do it.
Christine Schiefer: Good... Good for us.
Em Schulz: But yeah, just a bunch of like little random stuff would happen. People started noticing a darker spirit in the basement. And, uh, one employee apparently said that this big heavy shovel got thrown at him from across the room.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: And people started smelling pipe smoke when nobody was around. People started seeing a little girl in the windows, and small fires started mysteriously starting themselves.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, well, they're testing out this mud... Mud theory, I think.
Em Schulz: I know, like you would think the, the one building that doesn't have fire escapes, please don't be the one that also sets fires by itself.
Christine Schiefer: Please don't crack this... Your pyromania here. Thank you.
Em Schulz: Yeah. [laughter] Not the place. Please do it like...
Christine Schiefer: Not today.
Em Schulz: Down the road, at the boat with a, a fire escape, apparently.
Christine Schiefer: Put the... [laughter] The boat is in the water. Do it there.
Em Schulz: [laughter] Uh, one, this one's, I, I only got this from one source, but it was weird enough that it has to get mentioned. There's an elevator that apparently mysteriously gets knife cuts all through its interior.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah?
Em Schulz: And it has to regularly be refinished.
Christine Schiefer: Gasp.
Em Schulz: Because people just walk in and there's just small knife cuts all over the elevator.
Christine Schiefer: Ew! That's gross!
Em Schulz: The spirit that does this to the elevator has been nicknamed the Phantom of the Dakota and the Mad Slasher, but not the hash-slinging slasher, which is...
Christine Schiefer: [laughter] The hash-slinging slasher. I... Wow. That, the Mad... I mean, that's alarming. If you're in like a, a beau... It sounds like an episode of Only Murders in the Building. Like there's like...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: A slasher in the beautiful apartment complex. You know.
Em Schulz: Also like, imagine... Okay, if you work in hotels, please don't... You're... You didn't hear this part, but like, one of my favorite things to do when we're traveling is like, go exploring through the hotel at night.
Christine Schiefer: Sure is.
Em Schulz: And, but imagine, I mean that's just, it's... That's karma waiting to happen is you're just standing in an elevator that cuts itself. Like now...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: I'm in trouble. Well, I don't wanna be in that elevator by myself.
Christine Schiefer: No. I would sure wouldn't either. And like, is the knife there? Is the knife invisible? Is the knife... Float slowly?
Em Schulz: What if you're about to your like, lovely old sweet mother to dinner, you're riding the elevator and all of a sudden, bam! Cut. Bam! Cut.
Christine Schiefer: She's like slish, slash, dice.
Em Schulz: Yeah. That's when you take your enemy there and then you say, oh, I'll get the next one. And you just leave them in that elevator.
Christine Schiefer: You say, okay, hit the alarm... Hit the emergency stop button.
Em Schulz: And then you go, get her, boys. You know, it just seems...
Christine Schiefer: Good luck!
Em Schulz: [laughter] umm, I mentioned the ghost of a little girl. This little girl has apparently been seen quite a lot. There's the ghost of a girl wearing a yellow dress, bouncing a red ball... They're always bouncing a damn ball.
Christine Schiefer: Ugh god.
Em Schulz: And then...
Christine Schiefer: What is it with the ball?
Em Schulz: It feels like it was the halfway point between our fun and hoop and stick. It's like, well, [laughter] there was a whole era of ghosts, where they just had a ball and that was...
Christine Schiefer: It's like, man, they didn't, they didn't even know what they were missing.
Em Schulz: I know. [laughter] And they didn't even have internet to look back and hear about hoop and stick. They didn't even know what fun will happen before then.
Christine Schiefer: God, I'm telling you, it's just sad days.
Em Schulz: They just thought, this, this red ball's the most fun any of us have ever had.
Christine Schiefer: Ugh. Tragic.
Em Schulz: So she's bouncing this red ball. She's wearing a yellow dress. Sometimes she's seen crying.
Christine Schiefer: Uh-oh.
Em Schulz: And one time, a construction crew saw her, and this is the only time that I saw recorded, but when the construction crew saw her, she stopped bouncing the ball, she turns and.
Christine Schiefer: Gasp.
Em Schulz: Looks at them.
Christine Schiefer: Gasp.
Em Schulz: And then she says, today is my birthday.
Christine Schiefer: Pfft! [laughter]
Em Schulz: And then she leaves.
Christine Schiefer: [laughter] And you know it wasn't her birthday. She just wanted some attention. [laughter] That's me as a child...
Em Schulz: She just wanted to see if they give her a shiny nickel for the soda shop. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: She's like, I need a new ball to play with. Uh.
Em Schulz: Yeah. This one's losing its bounce. You know how it goes. Umm.
Christine Schiefer: [laughter] It's my birthday. Disappear.
Em Schulz: I feel like...
Christine Schiefer: That's kind of the funniest thing I've ever heard.
Em Schulz: I like that she was a little manipulative. I love it. But...
Christine Schiefer: I love it.
Em Schulz: So get this, after the group saw her and she's the only one that's ever up... Like turned to them, acknowledged them, said something...
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: Then shortly after, one of the guys of the construction crew fell down one of the stairs and died.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, shit!
Em Schulz: And so this led people to think that she is like an omen. And if she stops and talks to you, you're fucked.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my god. Okay.
Em Schulz: It's my birthday and I want to watch one of you fall. Like, what?
Christine Schiefer: And now you die.
Em Schulz: Yeah. So if you see her, maybe don't give her too much attention. Or if you do, just hope she doesn't say hi back.
Christine Schiefer: Just say happy birthday. I think that's all she wants.
Em Schulz: Oh! Unless that means I'm asking for it.
Christine Schiefer: Good point. I'll let you say happy birthday and then we'll see what happens.
Em Schulz: Okay. If we ever see her, we'll each react completely differently and see what happens. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: I will just watch you react and I will be, uh around the corner...
Em Schulz: Oh. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: For science.
Em Schulz: Well...
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: Eva, get in there. I'm excited 'cause I'll also be at the coffee shop. But you, you tell us how it goes.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Oh yeah. Sorry. Em is with me behind the... Around the corner. [laughter] Eva's there, talking to the ghost child.
Em Schulz: It's like at the Queen Mary, when we were both behind the corridor, while we watched her check us out early because you were too embarrassed. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It's happened before. It'll happen again. And she knows it.
Em Schulz: Uh, so this little girl, when she's not apparently a harbinger for doom [laughter], uh... She is seen smiling and waving to people. She's also seen walking into rooms and sometimes even closets. Because I wonder if blueprint theory, there used to be a room there.
Christine Schiefer: Gasp. Ooh, I like that. I like that a lot.
Em Schulz: There's one couple here who I checked. It is not who you think it is, but their last name was Weinstein and they were rich and famous...
Christine Schiefer: Oh shit.
Em Schulz: But it was not, it's not who we're thinking.
Christine Schiefer: Well, they're probably related, right?
Em Schulz: Uh, what's that?
Christine Schiefer: They're probably related, right?
Em Schulz: I don't know. All I know is it's not... It's not he who shall not be named.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, great.
Em Schulz: Umm, but, uh, a Weinstein couple lived, uh, at the Dakota. And they also said, this place is totally haunted. We hear footsteps in the apartment at night. Apparently, their chairs and their like heavy rugs would move on their own. Yuck.
Christine Schiefer: Ugh.
Em Schulz: Which like a rug is under other things. So is everything moving?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, that... Is it like they're just shifting it? Maybe they're trying to do that magic trick where you pull it, umm, [laughter] pull a, whatever, tablecloth...
Em Schulz: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hope so. That'd be fun.
Christine Schiefer: Mm, that'd be fun.
Em Schulz: And do it when there's like a whole dinner party on top of the rug and just knock everyone out.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. That would be, especially if you have some candelabras lit. This place is fireproof. Remember?
Em Schulz: Mm. Wow. You're really, you could, I know that you have already done the writing prompt for that last story, but this could be something. Remember this for your next contest you enter.
Christine Schiefer: [chuckle] Gonna be... Okay, write that... Eva, write that down, please. Thank you.
Em Schulz: Uh, well, it was already haunted, but one day the husband was coming home and he looked up at the window to see what was going on in his apartment and he saw a whole ass chandelier hanging from his ceiling, and he was like, oh, my wife must have bought a chandelier today and had it installed, which to be that rich, I can't even imagine. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, she must have installed... Had the new crystal, the Swarovski, I don't know. I'm trying to look fancy.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Exactly. Uh, when he got upstairs though, there was no chandelier.
Christine Schiefer: Heh?
Em Schulz: But when he looked closer, he looked at the ceiling and he saw that old bolts were installed in the ceiling...
Christine Schiefer: Gasp.
Em Schulz: Where chandelier once hung.
Christine Schiefer: Oh shit. So he like saw a phantom chandelier that used to be there.
Em Schulz: It's kind of like those, umm, stories we've talked about...
Christine Schiefer: Creepy.
Em Schulz: Where there's like a time warp or like you can see into a different time period...
Christine Schiefer: Yes. A slip. A time slip.
Em Schulz: Time slip.
Christine Schiefer: I love a time slip.
Em Schulz: Umm, this is probably my favorite story I'll tell is that Boris Karloff, who played Frankenstein, he was I think the first actor to move into the Dakota. And when he moved in, it very much matched his creepy vibe of being Frankenstein and now being in this really creepy building. But he... This... I guess, he reportedly once said that it made him sad that all the kids were scared of him because he's literally fucking Frankenstein.
Christine Schiefer: Aw. Is he Frankenstein or Frankenstein's monster? I would argue both are scary.
Em Schulz: Frankenstein's monster. But...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, okay. I didn't know... I genuinely didn't know if that's who he played or if he played like the guy... Dr. Frankenstein.
Em Schulz: I know, I know. But it, it's the...
Christine Schiefer: I, uh, I wasn't sure. Okay, I just...
Em Schulz: It's the one that the children would be scared of.
Christine Schiefer: Well, that's fine, 'cause now we'll get, we won't get the tweets, you know, so.
Em Schulz: Well he, apparently he once said that, like, it always made him sad that like, on Halloween he would leave out like a bowl of candy and nobody would ever come.
Christine Schiefer: Aw!
Em Schulz: Which like, can you imagine you literally live next to Frankenstein and it's Halloween. That's...
Christine Schiefer: Uh, yeah. Come on.
Em Schulz: Exactly where you go for your candy.
Christine Schiefer: Count your damn blessings, children!
Em Schulz: That's exactly where you go.
Christine Schiefer: Ugh.
Em Schulz: I can't imagine, like Devon Sawa, a ghost, Casper? Like...
Christine Schiefer: Ugh.
Em Schulz: Or, or, uh, uh, what's his name, Bela Lugosi, vampire, like...
Christine Schiefer: Oh! Now that would be creepy. Or like a witch.
Em Schulz: Like any, anyone who was ever...
Christine Schiefer: Like a witch.
Em Schulz: Bette Midler.
Christine Schiefer: Bette Midler.
Em Schulz: Anyone from Halloweentown.
Christine Schiefer: Mm.
Em Schulz: I feel like if you are living amongst, if you live next to one of the, the Charmed sisters and you don't...
Christine Schiefer: Mm.
Em Schulz: Go to their house first and last, and the... Uh, it's the only one in the middle. If you don't go there for your candy on Halloween, you're doing it wrong.
Christine Schiefer: You're doing it so wrong. Also, how many kids are in this building? Like two? I feel like...
Em Schulz: I know. [chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: This sounds like a place where kids are not really, kids are like frowned upon. You know?
Em Schulz: I feel like in the middle of all your financial statement meetings, they're like, mm, do you have those? You know, right?
Christine Schiefer: Ooh, yeah. That, that's gotta be, that's probably a big, like, red flag, if you're applying to this place, I would argue.
Em Schulz: Uh, I think it depends on the age. Like how troublesome are they gonna be to the rest of us? But then again, the, the whole place is soundproofed.
Christine Schiefer: Or have they learned... Have they learned to polish silver flooring? [laughter] Because if they're able to contribute in that way, maybe they're welcome.
Em Schulz: You know, I never saw a little kid in a single episode of Gossip Girl. Everyone was at least 14.
Christine Schiefer: Great point. No little ones.
Em Schulz: So, maybe you have to be a high schooler.
Christine Schiefer: No toddlers.
Em Schulz: So anyway, Frankenstein just really wanted the kids to...
Christine Schiefer: Sad Frankenstein.
Em Schulz: Like him. Which again, this, this is another writing prompt for a writing contest is like Frankenstein, the monster, just actually wants love. Umm.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I mean, I think that is the entire story of Frankenstein's monster but...
Em Schulz: Is it that he wants love? Well, Dr. Frankenstein wants a a person.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, it's... Yes. But then, it's that the monster is, I actually really liked that book. It was like one of the few that I actually read in high school. And it's really sad. He like, tries to find, uh, belonging. But the, the.
Em Schulz: Mm.
Christine Schiefer: The villagers are like, no! So it, it does feel like he's almost mirroring like...
Em Schulz: Interesting.
Christine Schiefer: His actual character.
Em Schulz: Well, apparently, one of the kids who did used to go trick-or-treating there, remembers a ghost story after Boris Karloff died.
Christine Schiefer: Gasp.
Em Schulz: Where she was going trick-or-treating with her friends. And, uh, she remembers going through the halls with her friends and feeling politely followed. And a few times even looked behind her and saw a very tall man, just kind of watching them from behind...
Christine Schiefer: Ew.
Em Schulz: And when they got to an elevator, the man who had been following them, in a way that didn't make her feel weird, I guess, but like was just like kind of keeping an eye on them...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: The... They got to the elevator, that same man got on with them, but all of them like didn't wanna look him in the face 'cause they didn't wanna like stare or anything. They just...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Knew that he was there. When they, when the kids got off at their stop on the elevator, they got off to let the man out, too. And he vanished.
Christine Schiefer: Gasp. Do they think it was him? Boris?
Em Schulz: I think they, they claim it was Boris Karloff checking on them and spending time with the kids on Halloween like he always wanted.
Christine Schiefer: He wants to have friends. That's all.
Em Schulz: Frankenstein turning into a ghost is the only Frankenstein plot twist I don't think I've heard of. [laughter] So... Another ghost that people see in the Dakota is a woman in white, of fucking course, but she's carrying a rose. And she said...
Christine Schiefer: Oh god, oh god. That's sinister.
Em Schulz: Uh, yeah. Isn't it? It's like something...
Christine Schiefer: I don't know why. It's just... Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: That one subtle change.
Christine Schiefer: Ugh.
Em Schulz: Umm, she's said to be the mistress of a married man who lived in the building.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no.
Em Schulz: And when he wouldn't end his marriage for her, she took her own life. And when she died, apparently in that exact same moment she died, her ghost appeared in front of the husband and his wife. Umm.
Christine Schiefer: Oh! [laughter]
Em Schulz: Oh, well. That's a power move.
Christine Schiefer: She's got the last word. Yep.
Em Schulz: Well, so freaked out, the husband then runs to her place just to be like, what did I just see? Finds her body.
Christine Schiefer: Gasp.
Em Schulz: And she's holding a rose. And so...
Christine Schiefer: Ooh, wa... Yuck. And you know, that was probably some symbolic thing between them, you know? Ugh. Ew.
Em Schulz: Well now it's said that only unfaithful men and their wives can see her. So if you're at the Dakota and you are a woman or a man; if you're married to someone and you're not cheating and you see her, they're cheating.
Christine Schiefer: Uh-oh!
Em Schulz: Well she...
Christine Schiefer: She is just wreaking havoc and I love that for her.
Em Schulz: Gemini. I already know.
Christine Schiefer: Mm. Indeed. No doubt.
Em Schulz: She's like, by the way, I'm stuck here for eternity. I'm gonna stir the fucking pot.
Christine Schiefer: Why not? You know, something to watch.
Em Schulz: I would, be like, oh, and another thing.
Christine Schiefer: Well, I would too, especially if it's in the name of like, umm, you know, protecting relationships. Although I guess she's the one who is also cheating... Well, no, she... The husband was cheating with her. Right? And so then.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm. I...
Christine Schiefer: So now she goes around and, and tells on people. Okay, gotcha.
Em Schulz: I, I wonder if it's because he wouldn't end the marriage and she got bamboozled. She's serving as a warning for other women. It's like, girl.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: If you see me run, and not because I'm a ghost...
Christine Schiefer: Just run.
Em Schulz: But because your husband is trash.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Don't run yet. Let me explain.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Umm, another notable resident here was Judy Holliday, who was an Oscar, Tony and Golden Globe winner. She lived here in just...
Christine Schiefer: With a name like Judy holiday, she better be.
Em Schulz: Right? I feel like some people are just born for the stage.
Christine Schiefer: It's gotta be a stage name. Right? Judy Holliday. What a name. Judy Holliday.
Em Schulz: I, I like to think, I'd be like, what's my stage name? But I don't know. I guess it's Em Schulz.
Christine Schiefer: I guess it's the Em Schulz. Okay. Wait wait.
Em Schulz: The Em Schulz.
Christine Schiefer: Guess what Judy Holliday's real birth name is.
Em Schulz: What? Uh, I, uh, I... It could be anything. Stella.
Christine Schiefer: Judith? Judith Tuvim.
Em Schulz: Yeah. It had to be changed.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, it had to be changed.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: But which is, it's really, uh, she was born Judith Tuvim. She took her stage name from yom tovim, which is Hebrew for holidays. Interesting.
Em Schulz: Mm, that is fun.
Christine Schiefer: So Judy Holliday. That's really actually a cool little twist.
Em Schulz: Uh, well, she lived there in the '60s and when she died, the new tenants of her place hired a crew for renovations. And if there's one thing we've learned in almost 400 episodes.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Gasp. Careful.
Em Schulz: You... Renovations bring the ghosts out for sure.
Christine Schiefer: For sure.
Em Schulz: Umm, the crew saw an apparition of a man body and a boy's face on the man body.
Christine Schiefer: A man... Ew!
Em Schulz: So, a grown-ass man, with a... Maybe he just had like a little like, baby face. I don't know. But apparently...
Christine Schiefer: Maybe it's for Frankenstein's Monster 2.0.
Em Schulz: Yeah. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Like Frankenstein was at it again, [laughter] with his hijinks.
Em Schulz: [laughter] He loves a hijinks.
Christine Schiefer: He love it... Loves it.
Em Schulz: Well, they see this guy and he never says anything to them, but they felt very closely watched for the rest of the day.
Christine Schiefer: Ugh.
Em Schulz: And the boy has been seen other times walking up and down the halls and apparently, always has a strange musty smell coming from him.
Christine Schiefer: Gasp. I don't like it.
Em Schulz: Me either. And like, and there's no explanation, so I don't even feel better about that.
Christine Schiefer: Wait so... Ooh, no, I don't feel better either. So wait, so it's a man's body with a boy's face on it?
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: And he smells musty?
Em Schulz: Smells musty, and just doesn't speak...
Christine Schiefer: That's upsetting.
Em Schulz: Just walks around.
Christine Schiefer: This sounds like a Goosebumps book or something. Ugh.
Em Schulz: It does.
[vocalization]
Christine Schiefer: Doesn't it? [laughter]
Em Schulz: Yeah. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Yikes.
Em Schulz: So one of the painters actually had to go back to the Dakota at some point and do a touch up. And I guess he was one of the people who saw this man boy. And he witnessed doors slamming by themselves, lights turning off on their own, and then he felt someone grab his arm and drag him towards the light bulbs he was working near.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no. Oh no!
Em Schulz: And you can believe it, he, he didn't come back. I wouldn't.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I, I wouldn't either. Certainly, I wouldn't have come back the first time.
Em Schulz: The second you're grabbed, never again.
Christine Schiefer: No, no, no. Don't touch me. You know?
Em Schulz: I was willing to tolerate a lot of bullshit until someone physically touched me. Now, now we're done, we're done here. Umm.
Christine Schiefer: Today, Leona said something so funny... I don't know, maybe it wasn't that funny, but to me it was very funny because she's never seen Frozen. Like I've, not for lack of trying, I've like tried to show her a few things, but she's like, Daniel Tiger only, you know, or Cocomelon lane only.
Em Schulz: A loyalist.
Christine Schiefer: But so... A loyalist indeed and uh, which I get, you know, you're, you're the same way, you only watch Degrassi or something like... Umm. [laughter] And so I get it but I, uh, today she asked me to draw a snowman and so I was like, "Do you want to build a snowman?" And she goes, Anna, stop. And I said, what? [laughter] First of all I thought she was saying, mom, stop but then she's like, Anna stop! And she threw her arm out and I was like, where the fuck did you pick that up? And then she's like...
Em Schulz: How did she learn that?
Christine Schiefer: So it turns out her teacher, when they're... When they're doing like potty time will sometimes play something on her phone...
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: To like make sure the kids, I don't know, stay put or something. [chuckle] She goes, Miss Abby showed me, and I was like, oh thank god, okay. I was really nervous for a minute, [laughter] when she...
Em Schulz: Did you just channel Idina Menzel?
Christine Schiefer: Anna, stop!
Em Schulz: Are you my Broadway muse? Like what happened?
Christine Schiefer: And I said, uh it was hilarious and then I said, Blaise, watch this. And I was like, "Do you want to build a snowman?" and she just like whipped around and said, Anna, stop. And Blaise is like, what in the world...
Em Schulz: No wonder she doesn't want to watch it. Uh it feels like school, probably...
Christine Schiefer: Oh may-maybe, I mean she loves school though, so uh maybe should be, maybe we should lean into that but anyway so, uh. Anna, stop. Uh.
S3: You know, that feels like you're gonna accidentally like Pavlovian-ly trigger her that every time she goes potty, she's gonna go, Anna, stop, but like, even as an adult. Like she's just gonna be on the potty, 'cause it...
Christine Schiefer: Oh the... I was like what does a potty have to do with it? Oh 'cause of it, yeah, yeah. That's not my... Listen, this teacher is setting this up, not me. Don't blame me.
Em Schulz: I'm not, I'm not blaming anyone. I'm just saying that she's gonna have an initial thought all the time when she goes, like...
Christine Schiefer: I sort of feel like that was bound to happen, so.
Em Schulz: Yeah, I guess of all things it's not that bad but that could be...
Christine Schiefer: It could be worse.
Em Schulz: That has to be so scary as a parent, just like every time your kid opens their mouth and says something new, you're like, where the fuck did you get that from? What's going on?
Christine Schiefer: You're like... But seriously how am I supposed to keep up? And then Blaise and I have to update each other because we're like, oh, if she says this, I finally figured out it means this, you know what I mean?
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Like, don't worry, she's not summoning a spirit, she's referencing some episode, you know. [laughter] Anyway, uh you never know, it's, it's all uh, it's all very chaotic, so.
Em Schulz: Good to know. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It just adds up.
Em Schulz: I feel like now even when I'm on the potty, I'm gonna go, Anna, stop.
Christine Schiefer: Anna, stop. I don't even know if that's how this... Song go or how they, whatever, it's... It made me laugh, anyway.
Em Schulz: It's very precious... Umm. [0:56:05.9] ____ oh, uh...
Christine Schiefer: I'm sorry, I don't know. I... That was my bad.
Em Schulz: I don't know how we got there because the last thing I said was someone grabbed a man and like dragged him to the light bulbs.
Christine Schiefer: You said, oh, he never came back... I don't know. I have no idea. I'm so sorry.
Em Schulz: Hey, your brain is also fascinating, Christine, that we should study...
Christine Schiefer: Is it? [laughter]
Em Schulz: That one's for sure.
Christine Schiefer: That we should study... I don't think so. I think that's a dangerous game.
Em Schulz: So anyway, all that happened, like all the the construction crew was dealing with stuff because they did renovations in Judy Holliday's apartment after she died so speaking of Judy Holliday's death, her death in the Dakota is part of a, an ongoing theory that this entire building has a curse.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Because many people who've walked through this building umm, have either died very early or had some other horrible demise.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: From the very beginning, first person in this building was Edward Clark, the... And he didn't live long enough to even see the building get finished.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: Umm, Judy Holliday, she, she died early at 43. Marilyn Monroe who got like...
Christine Schiefer: Ugh.
Em Schulz: Rejected from living here still had friends there and would visit often, and she did a photo shoot.
Christine Schiefer: That's gotta suck. She's like, I would have done something nicer with that mantelpiece but whatever.
Em Schulz: I already know what I would have done.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. She died.
Em Schulz: She apparently did a photo shoot at Judy Holliday's apartment.
Christine Schiefer: Gasp.
Em Schulz: So she's been in the building. And she died at 36. Umm.
Christine Schiefer: Aw.
Em Schulz: Umm, Judy Garland, uh Dorothy...
Christine Schiefer: Well, yeah.
Em Schulz: Lived there, and she died at 47. John Lennon lived there. He died at 40 and...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, he lived there, too. That's right. I did hear... Wow. Okay. This is getting creepy. I mean, how old was he when he died? Sorry, I think you just said it.
Em Schulz: 40.
Christine Schiefer: So I don't like that it's in the forties. That feels like when you're kind of like safe, right?
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Like, I mean, not safe...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: But it's like, it should be a very healthy decade, where you're an adult and you're... You figured shit out and and then all of a sudden, bam. You know?
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: It just, it's... Ooh!
Em Schulz: I feel like if you make it to 50 and you live there, you're like, oh, thank god. I'm I...
Christine Schiefer: You're like, oh, phew!
Em Schulz: I dodged a bullet. Yeah. Umm, also, just to add to all the people who died really early there, after the exterior shots of Rosemary's Baby was filmed there, the composer died from a head injury.
Christine Schiefer: Gasp.
Em Schulz: The producer had kidney stones so bad that they gave him, uh, pain that led to delusions, and he started shouting.
Christine Schiefer: They gave him pain?
Em Schulz: That he had so much pain from... He had a bout of kidney stones that was so painful. He ended up being delusional in the hospital later...
Christine Schiefer: Oh!
Em Schulz: Where he started shouting in the hospital, Rosemary, drop the knife!
Christine Schiefer: Ew!
Em Schulz: He just kept shouting that.
Christine Schiefer: Yuck!
Em Schulz: Then, uh, Rosemary's Baby was directed by Roman Polanski.
Christine Schiefer: Uh-huh.
Em Schulz: And a year after the movie came out, his wife, Sharon Tate, was one of the murder victims of the Manson family.
Christine Schiefer: Oh boy. Oh boy.
Em Schulz: So it just, it feels a little dark, but also you could...
Christine Schiefer: Sure does.
Em Schulz: Probably chalk it up... Well, and not really though, but I could see someone trying to make the argument of like, oh, well, the lifestyles of the rich and the famous, maybe they, maybe they're all a little wild and they have a higher risk for early death. I don't know. I feel like you could...
Christine Schiefer: Huh.
Em Schulz: Probably come up with some sort of argument, but it's still weird.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: It's still very weird.
Christine Schiefer: It is... I mean, I guess when it comes to drugs and stuff, but I feel like the the deaths that aren't drug-related are still, are, are especially odd.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Uh, but.
Christine Schiefer: Mm.
Em Schulz: Also, a lot of people moved in there and like, I think Boris Karloff died in the Dakota... I think maybe there was just also a lot of deaths, so it led to a lot of ghosts and maybe the ghosts bring the bad energy and then the bad energy just...
Christine Schiefer: Well, combined with that big nuclear power plant in the basement or whatever the...
Em Schulz: And all the celebrities' creative spaces, you know.
Christine Schiefer: That's right. Maury and all his... On all his ease... Many easels and watercolors. I imagine this place is just [1:00:03.7] ____.
Em Schulz: You know what, Maury is like a hundred years old and he's, is he still kicking?
Christine Schiefer: Uh... Well, you know what? If he's not, then we've got some apologizing to do, for the way we've [chuckle] kind of just thrown his name around. Uh, yeah, he's 85. Wow. I actually did not know. Oh. He is married to Connie Chung, that's why...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: They both live there. Okay. That makes sense.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, I forgot about that part of him. Uh, you know, I, I get him and Jerry Springer confused, which I know is blasphemous as a Cincinnatian, but... There, [1:00:34.3] ____.
Em Schulz: Maury was always the one I watched. Actually...
Christine Schiefer: Me too.
Em Schulz: Of all of them, it's Steve Wilkos. Steve.
Christine Schiefer: You were a Steve, Steve Wilkos. I was definitely a Maury.
Em Schulz: Umm, Maury and Steve. But Jerry, I never cared for.
Christine Schiefer: Well, RIP.
Em Schulz: Anyway. May he rest in peace. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Em Schulz: Umm...
Christine Schiefer: You wanna keep going?
Em Schulz: Well, okay...
Christine Schiefer: You wanna say some shit about Regis Philbin this time?
Em Schulz: No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Uh, the a-as I just mentioned briefly, the most famous spirit at this location is John Lennon, who lived here for five years with Yoko Ono, who was 91. I just looked up to see if she was still alive. She's 91.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: Umm, so.
Christine Schiefer: Cool. Elderly. Good for her... [laughter] I'm sorry. I'm just saying like, I feel like now we've talked about so many people who are 40 and died, and I'm like 90...
Em Schulz: Yes.
Christine Schiefer: Fuck yeah.
Em Schulz: She made it.
Christine Schiefer: Like live that senior life. Go!
Em Schulz: She made it. Umm, so in 1975, John Lennon and Yoko Ono bought five apartments in this building.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, shit.
Em Schulz: Uh, they bought two on the seventh floor that I guess they built into one, I am guessing, into one apartment. So so they had like 40 rooms. And then...
Christine Schiefer: Damn!
Em Schulz: They bought three more for storage, for work, and for entertaining guests. And apparently, this caused like a huge kerfuffle.
Christine Schiefer: I bet.
Em Schulz: It's like we only have 65 apartments now you've just bought...
Christine Schiefer: They're like, Marilyn Monroe's not allowed to live here, but I guess you can store your shit in this apartment.
Em Schulz: Right. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, I guess when you're a Beetle, you can do anything.
Christine Schiefer: Wow.
Em Schulz: But how did...
Christine Schiefer: I mean, yeah.
Em Schulz: How could a, a Beatle do that but Marilyn Monroe couldn't? I don't know. Umm.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Anyway, but uh, so they ended up buying this out, buying out a bunch of apartments. I think after them a rule got created that you could only buy one at a time. So... [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Uh-huh.
Em Schulz: When they first moved in, the people who owned the apartment before them was Robert Ryan and his wife Jesse, who died in the apartment. And her spirit is said to have haunted the Lennons.
Christine Schiefer: Gasp.
Em Schulz: Uh, eventually it got so wild that they called a psychic in to do a séance...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, shit.
Em Schulz: And the ghost, Jesse Ryan, came through and told the Lennons she was leaving, but she... Or she would not leave. Sorry, the opposite, [laughter] she said...
Christine Schiefer: She's like, what did you just say?
Em Schulz: I'm not leaving, but don't worry, I won't bother you, but I am gonna stick around. Which...
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Umm.
Em Schulz: I feel like you're bothering me by sticking around.
Christine Schiefer: Exactly. And I also feel like, couldn't you have just said, "Okay, bye, I'm leaving," and like not actually left and just pretended? I don't know. Just a thought.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Couldn't you read the room that you're clearly not wanted here? We've hired a outside help to come in and talk to you about this?
Christine Schiefer: No offense, but...
Em Schulz: Love that you feel safe here, that's excellent and perfect...
Christine Schiefer: I'm so happy for you.
Em Schulz: But it is not gonna work for me. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Not... Not today.
Em Schulz: John Lennon was apparently, because he was like open spiritually to all this stuff, he had no problem coexisting with the spirit, but...
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Uh... Also, I feel like you'd have to be kind of open to a coexisting with a spirit, if they just told you to their face, you're... That she's just not leaving.
Christine Schiefer: I mean literally if they say, I'm moving in and I... You can't get rid of me. Yeah. I guess there's not much else to do.
Em Schulz: And you just spent probably a $100 million here on five apartments...
Christine Schiefer: Right. Right.
Em Schulz: So we're both stuck.
Christine Schiefer: Yup.
Em Schulz: Uh, fun fact about John Lennon living here, uh, he claimed to see a UFO from one of the windows...
Christine Schiefer: Oh my god!
Em Schulz: Another fun fact is that apparently, $30,000 is rumored to be buried under the floor of their apartment, but the Board refuses to destroy the floor to find out.
Christine Schiefer: The floor board... [laughter]
Em Schulz: Because it's original flooring. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: You said "the board." Nevermind.
Em Schulz: Yeah, I know. I heard it. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Okay. It's not funny. I thought it was funny in my head. It wasn't, really. But, umm, do you, I mean... Hmm. I wonder how that rumor started. Like, did somebody say they witnessed this happen? I don't know. I wanna know about this.
Em Schulz: I don't even know if... I think John Lennon even made it up, because it sounds like it was from the previous residents.
Christine Schiefer: Oh! So... Oh, maybe that's why that ghost was fucking sticking around.
Em Schulz: [chuckle] Just like our... My last story where it's like, well, there's, I'm attached to something under the floorboards. Uh, I have to stick around.
Christine Schiefer: It's always under the floorboards.
Em Schulz: Always. But anyway, we'll never know. I guess not, for now, at least. Uh, another fun fact is that John Lennon, not only was he being haunted by that woman, but he used to see another ghost all the time that he called The Crying Lady...
Christine Schiefer: Ugh.
Em Schulz: Who was a woman with curly hair. And she would walk down the halls of the apartment building, just crying, and she wore, uh, outdated clothes that suggested she was from the late 1800s, early 1900s.
Christine Schiefer: Come on...
Em Schulz: One source says this might have been a beautiful, wealthy tenant. And her... She got depressed and threw herself out of the window. That's one of the stories.
Christine Schiefer: Uh-oh.
Em Schulz: The other story is that she might be, uh, Elise Vesely, who was one of the earlier property managers.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: And apparently her son died nearby when she was still alive, and she never recovered...
Christine Schiefer: Aw.
Em Schulz: So they think maybe that's why she's crying.
Christine Schiefer: Ugh!
Em Schulz: Umm besides John Lennon, other people have also claimed to see her wandering the halls, wearing an old gray gown. She cries, she quickly vanishes. And there was one article I read where a reporter actually got invited to a party at the Dakotas and like, said in advance, like, I'm gonna see this fucking crying lady. I wanna see this crying lady. So apparently, the reporter is hanging out in this, at this party, hears someone crying, and looks around and nobody else is reacting...
Christine Schiefer: Gasp.
Em Schulz: Looks at the corner of the room and sees a woman sobbing in a dress.
Christine Schiefer: Gasp.
Em Schulz: And you could see right through her but she still seemed real enough that it was weird to the reporter that nobody else was looking at her or noticing her...
Christine Schiefer: Oh. Creepy!
Em Schulz: And the woman walked out into the hall and the reporter followed the woman, being like, I'm gonna see how this goes. Runs out into the hall, sees nobody, but still hears a faint crying from down the hall. So, the reporter runs down the hall, is like, I'm gonna follow you. I'm gonna find you. Follows the sound of the crying down the hall and ends up at a dead end with an open window.
Christine Schiefer: Gasp.
Em Schulz: And the reporter sensed an intense sorrow and just knew in their gut that this was the window that she leapt from.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my god. That is quite a story.
Em Schulz: Last fun fact I have for you about John Lennon's time there is that while living in the Dakota, there's an interview that I just watched on YouTube, where he reads a fan letter. He's in the Dakota, I'm pretty sure he's like lying in bed with Yoko Ono, in a bed and doing this interview, and reading a fan letter in his own home...
Christine Schiefer: Love... Love that for him. Uh-huh.
Em Schulz: Love that for him. [chuckle] In the fan letter, he, the fan letter says, "I was using a Ouija board, and it predicted that you will be... That an assassination attempt will... Will be made on you."
Christine Schiefer: Oh, jeez.
Em Schulz: Well, in...
Christine Schiefer: Is there a clip, clip of that somewhere?
Em Schulz: Yeah, it's like 9 seconds long. It's, if you...
Christine Schiefer: That would be so...
Em Schulz: Look up, "John Lennon fan letter predicts death," which isn't...
Christine Schiefer: Ooh. That's so eerie. Okay. I didn't know about that.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I, I like when you cover your ears, when you get nervous. Your...
Christine Schiefer: I do. I cover... I know. I don't know why I do that. It makes everything louder in my ears, your story. [laughter] So I don't... It's like not helping me. I don't know why I do it.
Em Schulz: Well, so the eeriest part of it all is that he's reading that letter, reading, saying out loud, a prediction of his death, in the Dakota and in 1980, at the Dakota, Mark David Chapman.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: Who's mad at John Lennon, because he said that the Beatles were more popular than Jesus, in my world they were. So he was kind of right. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: John Lennon was the victim of Mark David Chapman's assassination attempts, which, by the way, it was inspired by the book, Catcher in the Rye.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm. He was carrying that book on him.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Fun fact.
Em Schulz: And so, uh.
Christine Schiefer: Fucking loser.
Em Schulz: He, I guess, hung around the Dakota waiting for John Lennon to leave the building. When he first saw John Lennon that day, he got him to sign one of his records, which is so eerie, like...
Christine Schiefer: He like, yeah, they like had an interaction. Ugh.
Em Schulz: Yeah. And didn't let him go, was like, oh, can you...
Christine Schiefer: Ugh.
Em Schulz: Sign my record? And then John Lennon left to go to a recording session, and when he came back that night, Chapman shot him five times, four hit him in the back. And this is a quote, "Chapman remained at the scene reading the Catcher on the Rye until he was arrested." Yuck.
Christine Schiefer: And he literally sat on the curb and was like, anyway, chapter seven.
Em Schulz: How, how... It's like nothing more premeditated than like, oh, before I kill him, I should get him to sign one last thing that I can have for the rest of time. Like, you know you're going to jail. So like, why do you have to even get that thing signed unless you want like a memento of the day? Yuck.
Christine Schiefer: Ugh. God, who knows? I mean, clearly, he was not, you know, in his right mind. So it's a, it's just sad and like, yeah. I remember, umm recently hearing like the full story of his assassination. Umm it was probably in that same episode, to be honest, whatever that was. It might have been Lore, but, umm is it true, I, I heard that Yoko Ono had like a... She was, like, playing the piano or something when he was shot.
Em Schulz: Oh, yeah. I have that here.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, you do? Okay. Sorry.
Em Schulz: Oh, oh, when he was being shot?
Christine Schiefer: Or I could be wrong. I don't know.
Em Schulz: Oh. I, well...
Christine Schiefer: I feel like I'm misremembering. I thought she had kind of a psychic vision when he was killed.
Em Schulz: Oh, I don't know about that. Maybe I have half the information and you have half the information, and we're about to put the story together.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, that would be a fun little puzzle.
Em Schulz: Umm, what I have is that ever since he died at the Dakota, or I saw one source that said, he died at the hospital or he was dead on arrival. But most people say that he died on the steps of the Dakota. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: So, I mean, he got shot four times.
Christine Schiefer: Ugh.
Em Schulz: Pretty point blank...
Christine Schiefer: I heard...
Em Schulz: So, umm.
Christine Schiefer: I'm pretty sure he like tried to get to the stairs too, which is like he really...
Em Schulz: Yeah. He like took a few steps and collapsed.
Christine Schiefer: Oh boy, oh boy.
Em Schulz: And I think Yoko Ono was with him because she left and came back from the recording session with him.
Christine Schiefer: That's... That's true. Yeah. I do believe she was with him. I think there's some story I read where like, either she had a vision or there was some bizarre occurrence that happened...
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: I don't know, with her and him, when he passed, like a, or maybe he, maybe his ghost came to her or something like that. I feel like maybe that was it.
Em Schulz: So what I have is that, ever since he died, now people will see his ghost outside by the archway where he was shot.
Christine Schiefer: Oof.
Em Schulz: Sometimes they see an eerie glow by the building. Sometimes they see like a body of energy where he died. People have seen his apparition walking by. They've seen it staring out, uh, out of the windows. Someone says that they saw him flashing the peace sign. Someone says that, uh, they saw him walking from the Dakota to Central Park, and then one...
Christine Schiefer: That would trip me up so... Oh, sorry.
Em Schulz: No, go ahead. Go ahead.
Christine Schiefer: I was just gonna say, that would trip me up so bad because you, you'd be like, I just saw John Lennon, but then you're like, what if someone was just prank... Like what if someone's wandering around dressed as John Lennon and like...
Em Schulz: Well, that's what I... So the next thing I was gonna say is that one hotdog vendor, [laughter] he swears that he heard the ghost singing, Give Peace A Chance. You don't think people go to that site every day...
Christine Schiefer: I know, exactly.
Em Schulz: And fucking play his phone... His song on the phone.
Christine Schiefer: That's what I... Feel like I would doubt myself if I actually saw John Lennon, I'd be like, that's just an impersonator.
Em Schulz: Yeah. It's someone dress-dressing the... The part or something.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Umm, what I think you're talking about is that even in the Dakota, people have seen his ghost...
Christine Schiefer: Mm.
Em Schulz: In the apartment building, including Yoko Ono who said that...
Christine Schiefer: Uh-huh.
Em Schulz: She saw John Lennon's ghost in their apartment, playing their piano. And he looked at her and said, don't be afraid. I'm still with you.
Christine Schiefer: Aw.
Em Schulz: And, uh, a lot of sites were saying like, since Yoko Ono saw him, we have to trust that it's real. And I'm like, I would argue that like the spouse, the bereaved spouse is, or the grieving spouse is probably the last one we should probably trust right off the bat. But everyone thought like, because Yoko Ono saw him, it's gotta be real. And I'm like, okay.
Christine Schiefer: I guess.
Em Schulz: But also, like, if someone I love died, I would be playing tricks with my head nons... I mean, it could be real, but it was...
Christine Schiefer: I mean, yeah... It... It's an odd argument to be like, well, she couldn't be wrong about that. It's an odd argument.
Em Schulz: Yeah. It's like, just because she was the closest to him. But it's like, I would argue that because she's the closest to him, her brain is like telling her a million different ways that he's still in the house, you know?
Christine Schiefer: [1:13:26.1] ____ Right, right, right. It could be just a trick of the mind. Yeah.
Em Schulz: But apparently, because she saw him, everyone's like, every other ghost story must be true.
Christine Schiefer: For what it's worth, I believe that she saw him. But, you know. Of course I do...
Em Schulz: And I believe that the hotdog vendor heard him sing. So...
Christine Schiefer: You know what? Me, too. Fucking justice for that hotdog vendor. Why don't they say, yeah, forget... Forget Yoko Ono. If that hotdog vendor saw it, then we know it's true.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: That's what I always say.
Em Schulz: Umm, I have one last thing to add to my notes, and then it will be your turn, but I... It was too good to not tell.
Christine Schiefer: Ooh.
Em Schulz: Umm, there was a source that I found that said the original owner of the Dakota, Edward Clark. Who, Mr. Toupée Man...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Oh, I, oh, I won't soon forget. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Well, since the building was made in the 1880s, it was kind of around, uh, the spiritualism time and apparently, Edward Clark liked to hold séances.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm. No. On his fucking silver floors?
Em Schulz: On his silver floor.
Christine Schiefer: Imagine that. That's so creepy. It probably like holds all the energy in it.
Em Schulz: There's gotta be something metaphysical with that. I don't know what it is but...
Christine Schiefer: Wait a minute. I think you're right. Maybe it is. Maybe it's like silver, vampires? I don't know. Just a thought maybe... Maybe he believes...
Em Schulz: It's interesting that it's called the Dracula and it has silver. Wait, isn't silver, werewolves? Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Just... No. Silver cross.
Em Schulz: Oh, I was thinking silver bullet.
Christine Schiefer: Also that...
Em Schulz: Silver is [laughter] apparently, and silver bolts in Frankenstein's neck?
Christine Schiefer: Okay, but maybe the silver was... Maybe [laughter] that's what they were trying to, trying to do is like prevent, I don't know, ethereal beings from entering the space, while he did his... Like bad ones. You know, while he did his séance.
Em Schulz: If you're a witch, umm, in 2024, can you please tell me what silver floors must be doing? 'Cause it's gotta do something. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: It must be doing something.
Em Schulz: Well, so I wanted to say, Edward Clark likes to hold séances here, and I don't know if they did this in the spirit of that, or they just happen... It happens to be a fun fact that that works here. But there's, there was a composer who used to live here named Leonard Bernstein.
Christine Schiefer: Mm.
Em Schulz: He had a three-bedroom apartment that eventually sold to a family called the Milsteins for $20.5 million. By the way...
Christine Schiefer: Jesus Christ.
Em Schulz: You're doing it wrong, rich people. Like at some point you're so rich, things... You start doing like not rich things.
Christine Schiefer: Like you just like lose your... Yeah.
Em Schulz: You're spending over $20 million on a three-bedroom apartment? You're fucking wrong. That's not how it works. [laughter] Sorry. Umm. But anyway, so Leonard Bernstein lived there. The Milsteins bought it and, uh, this is a, a headline from New York Times called...
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: "Young Socialites Conjure the Ghost of Leonard Bernstein at the Dakota."
Christine Schiefer: Gasp.
Em Schulz: And apparently, these like millennial or Gen Z rich kids...
Christine Schiefer: Wait, this is recent?
Em Schulz: I think it's pretty recent. Hold on... Let me tell, let me, let me see what year it was. I think it was pretty recent. It was giving Gossip Girl. So... Uh, 2017, so six years ago, seven years ago.
Christine Schiefer: Damn. Damn. For some reason when you first said it, I thought it was like from the 1940s, like so, young socialites...
Em Schulz: Oh, that'd be fun.
Christine Schiefer: Like they have a little séance, but...
Em Schulz: That'd be fun.
Christine Schiefer: This is like a TikTok era thing. Well, not quite, but almost a TikTok era thing.
Em Schulz: This is like... If it was seven years ago, then they're millennials. They're our age. They're...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. So, it would be like an Instagram thing. [laughter]
Em Schulz: An Instagram thing. But it's interesting. So I guess when the Milsteins bought it out from the Bernsteins, the Milstein millennial kids who lived in that house were like, well, he lived there, he lived here before us.
Christine Schiefer: No wonder they didn't allow kids in this place. They're just fucking... Having... Bringing back the dead and trick-or-treating.
Em Schulz: And I don't know if they knew about Edward Clark also holding séances here and so they're like well, if the original founder of this place did it.
Christine Schiefer: Mm.
Em Schulz: He would be okay with us doing it.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: Or if it was just a separate thing of like, oh, wouldn't it be fun if we like used a Ouija board...
Christine Schiefer: We're bored teenagers.
Em Schulz: And conjured our... The previous tenant. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I mean we've done it.
Em Schulz: But anyway, so so the New York Times' fashion section wrote a piece on this.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, oh.
Em Schulz: And it really is the most Gossip Girl thing I've ever heard in my life because...
Christine Schiefer: Please.
Em Schulz: Since it's the New York Times' fashion section and they're talking about the up-and-coming social elite...
Christine Schiefer: Uh-huh.
Em Schulz: It's almost like the spooky part of this doesn't even fucking count. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Oh wow.
Em Schulz: So here's, here's clips from the article. So this umm, is the, the Milstein kids who did this.
Christine Schiefer: I can't wait.
Em Schulz: Their names are Larry and Toby. They're now probably 29 and 31, so they're our age.
Christine Schiefer: Wow.
Em Schulz: And the Milsteins are a family that's estimated, back in 2015, they were estimated to be worth like $3 billion.
Christine Schiefer: Cool, cool, cool.
Em Schulz: So, just to give you an idea of where these people are. And they, I guess, wanted to host a séance in their parents' room and the New York Times went, we're gonna write about it, so.
Christine Schiefer: Ah, so they attended, basically, like the reporter attended this séance?
Em Schulz: The reporter I think... Yes, the reporter attended.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I thought it was just like a really casual like, let's get out a Ouija board but it was like, oh no, this is a soiree and we're wearing our finery. Okay.
Em Schulz: They're estimated $3 billion. I don't think they're in their Walmart sweatpants doing a Ouija board. No.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, fa-fair.
Em Schulz: They're hosting.
Christine Schiefer: I guess I just didn't know it was a premeditated Ouija board. I thought maybe like, oh, we found Mama's tortoiseshell, Galapagonian tortoiseshell Ouija board. We should play. No, they like planned this out in advance.
Em Schulz: Umm... Let me just read this quote.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. [laughter]
Em Schulz: "Young Socialites Conjure the Ghost of Leonard Bernstein at the Dakota." This is a series of quotes that I've jumbled into one for... All from the same piece.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: "Ms. Milstein for the séance wore a pink and gray striped halter dress and embroidered lace-up sandal booties, both by Fendi. Mr. Milstein, who graduated from Yale in May, paired a green Fendi blazer with a Club Monaco top, Rag & Bone trousers, and Gucci fur-lined leather slippers, personalized with tiger appliqués. The family fortune can be traced to Morris Milstein, who founded the Circle Floor Company in 1919. Family... Family lore has it that he ran multiple businesses with different names using a single set of stationery printed, 'Office of the Undersigned,' which... " Are you fucking kidding me? That's so badass.
Christine Schiefer: That is badass. I'm loving this.
Em Schulz: Then "to set the séance mood," I... Can you imagine... Okay, okay I'm just gonna read it. "To set the séance mood... "
Christine Schiefer: What... How much were the can... How much were the candles? Like was like one candle 3 grand?
Em Schulz: "To set the séance mood, a grapefruit-and-cucumber Tocca candle," [laughter] Tocca, Tocca, I don't even... I'm not that rich, I don't know, uh, "candles scented the air... "
Christine Schiefer: I was also just... Well, while we're correcting, uh appliqué, I think is what you meant to say.
Em Schulz: Appliqué? Okay. Cool. See, I, I am not worth $3 billion, umm. Okay. Uh...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, don't be so hard on yourself, Em.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: No, no. Put your chin up!
Christine Schiefer: No, no, not you, my... My dear Em. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Uh, to... I'm the person who has Walmart sweatpants and uses... And has a dirty Ouija board [laughter] that's what I've got, so. "To set the séance... "
Christine Schiefer: Well, you have the one I I drew for you on the back of a poster with a Shelby, so I don't know.
Em Schulz: "To set the séance mood, a grapefruit-and-cucumber candle scented the air, as a candelabrum flickered dramatically on the piano."
Christine Schiefer: Mm.
Em Schulz: "Crystal ice buckets chilled mini-Champagne splits alongside a bottle of Jack Daniel's and an arrangement of pastel macarons."
Christine Schiefer: Shut the fuck up.
Em Schulz: "The mood was simulta... The mood was simultaneously slo... Somber and expectantly gay, like that of a family dressed for the reading of a will, in which they're expecting good news."
Christine Schiefer: You can understand why I would have thought this was in like the 1960s or something, right? Like the way they're writing about it...
Em Schulz: And also a satire, yes.
Christine Schiefer: And also satirical, it really does feel outrageous. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Wait for this. "They assembled around the piano as if it were a coffin and Mr. Milstein distributed pages printed with the lyrics of songs associated with the Dakota's departed talents. The group touched glasses, and, accompanied by Mr. Peglar on piano, began a medley that included Mr. Bernstein's 'Maria' from West Side Story, 'Imagine' by John Lennon, and, playing along with the evening's theme, Taylor Swift's 'I Don't Wanna Live Forever,' recently popularized by Zayn Malik. [laughter] In ex- in execution, it was more Beyoncé than séance-y."
Christine Schiefer: Wow...
Em Schulz: "For 20... For 20 minutes, the only spirits present appeared to be the Jack Daniel's. But as the Steinway tinkled and voices filled the room, vibrations rose from deep beneath the earth, like a musical giant shifting in its grave. Or perhaps it was just the A train." Are you kidding me?
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Anyway, that's the Dakota.
Christine Schiefer: Whoever that is, I hope they run Vogue now.
Em Schulz: That... I mean I can't, it literally feels like something Serena van der Woodsen and Blair Waldorf would have like written up on Gossip Girl.
Christine Schiefer: It's honestly one of the funniest things I've ever heard and I feel like, Em, this is a sign... First of all, it also sounds like something, I've been watching, re-watching Schitt's Creek, which you can probably tell in some of the things I've said today, but uh it just gives such like Schitt's Creek vibes like, so. So ridiculous.
Em Schulz: Yes, very Moira Rose.
Christine Schiefer: Right? Like it's just like, what are you even doing? But I kind of love it but also it makes me wonder, first of all, are the richies coming for our spooky stuff, like the way? Second of all, are séances in again?
Em Schulz: Uh, I think so.
Christine Schiefer: I mean, this was clearly... What did you say? Seven fucking years ago? Wow. Okay. Seven years ago. But like, maybe there's a sign here that they are like...
Em Schulz: Oh. [chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: The elite are bringing back séances. Like how the... Back in the spiritualism days, you know, like maybe this is...
Em Schulz: Yeah, but you know what, you know what all that writing, not a single fucking note on what happened at the séance, except what the candles smelled like.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. 'Cause, yeah.
Em Schulz: So I feel like they, and also by the way...
Christine Schiefer: They're doing it wrong.
Em Schulz: Well, they're doing it wrong because I feel like anyone, I don't even know witchcraft well enough to tell you what they should have done, but I know well enough to know that the cucumber-grapefruit candle is not the candle you light for a séance. So...
Christine Schiefer: Okay. But, however, I will argue with that because I've read in my witchy books that...
Em Schulz: What?
Christine Schiefer: It does not matter what type of candle because you don't wanna get hung up in the details. I mean, they are hung up in the details. So there is that. But, you know.
Em Schulz: Mm.
Christine Schiefer: It's all about the intention. So it could be...
Em Schulz: What was their intention? I don't think a séance was it at the end of the day. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I think it was to get a a Fendi feature... It sounds almost like a promo for like Fendi, if Fendi ever needed a promo, I don't know. It's very weirdly, like, it feels sponsored. It feels like sponcon, you know? It's like...
Em Schulz: Yeah, and then all of of a sudden, I fall into like, what are the politics of like rich people in the newspaper? Because like, if you reached out to Fendi and said, my family's worth $3 billion. They're gonna do a piece on us in the fashion section...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: If you send me something from Fendi, I will make sure it's mentioned in the...
Christine Schiefer: Or if you pay me like...
Em Schulz: You know, then all of sudden, it all feels like...
Christine Schiefer: $10 million, I'll wear this Fendi dress. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Yeah. And they'll make a sent... They'll say... You'll say a sentence about it in the paper.
Christine Schiefer: I'm sure there's, so... This is why I love shows like Succession 'cause it's like, I, I don't even know if it's real or what, but just watching people with that amount of money, it's like aliens.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Yeah. I I wouldn't know what to do with it. I would, like, were you just wearing Walmart sweatpants before Fendi sent you a blazer to wear for the the piece?
Christine Schiefer: Oh, were you wearing them ironically? 'Cause that's kind of fucked up.
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: You know?
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: It's like, hmm. Hmm.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Anyway.
Em Schulz: Anyway, uh, I thought that was just about the best séance I never wanna go to [laughter] and 'cause they would've taken one look at me and then like, out you go.
Christine Schiefer: Bye-bye. [laughter]
Em Schulz: But apparently people like that are having séances, so you're right. I think people like us should having séances.
Christine Schiefer: I feel like they would have looked at us and been like, ghosts!
Em Schulz: Yeah. [chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: You know, they would've been like, dramatic entities. Get them out!
Em Schulz: Ugh! The poor! Like, something like...
Christine Schiefer: It's so dirty. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Go back to the boat! Umm.
Christine Schiefer: Go back to your boat! [laughter]
Em Schulz: Go back to the Dakota boat. Okay. So anyway, that is the Dakota.
Christine Schiefer: Em, that was a really good one. I really enjoyed that story. Thank you for sharing.
Em Schulz: Thank you.
Christine Schiefer: It felt like it had a million stories within a story, you know.
Em Schulz: It sure did. A lot of fun facts.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. I love a fun fact. Umm, I think you did an excellent job. Uh also, I meant to mention this earlier, but like, what is it with people saying, I am going to this place and I'm going to see a ghost, this specific ghost, and then it happens?
Em Schulz: Couldn't be me. I've tried.
Christine Schiefer: Should we try, should we test it? I'm nervous.
Em Schulz: Did I? I did mention on the show the, the little... When I asked for an heirloom.
Christine Schiefer: Yes. Yes. We talked about it. Yes.
Em Schulz: On the show? Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Yep.
Em Schulz: Yeah. That was the first time that I think I had been... I actually got an answer.
Christine Schiefer: Manifested sort of, like...
Em Schulz: Someone said, you just have to ask for it really specifically, and it will happen. And I was like, that has literally never happened for me, and it's the only time it's worked. So.
Christine Schiefer: I feel like it's very, the Secret, you know?
Em Schulz: You know...
Christine Schiefer: But I do believe we kind of create our own reality. So in a way, I am like, I mean, I guess if you try hard enough? I don't know.
Em Schulz: So Kylie Jenner, there was a, I don't remember which year it was, but I think it was 2020, 2019? No. Maybe, someone else weigh in. But Kylie Jenner, at the turn of a new year, she was reported...
Christine Schiefer: Turn of the century. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: She was, uh, filmed saying, this is gonna be the year of knowing things and realizing things. This is the year of realizing things. And maybe this is the year of asking things. Like, just saying.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: I'm asking for it and if you don't deliver, there is not much I can do, but I'm asking. So...
Christine Schiefer: I love that, Em, that energy. Let's ask for things. And if they don't, what's the worst that happens? They don't come to us, you know?
Em Schulz: Yeah. And then after asking for things, maybe it is also another year of realizing things, after we've asked for it.
Christine Schiefer: I feel like we've realized enough and I'm kind of over it.
Em Schulz: That's what a lot of people were saying, like through COVID and Trump and everything.
Christine Schiefer: Yes.
Em Schulz: People would take that meme of Kylie and they were like, I'm done realizing things.
Christine Schiefer: I'm done realizing.
Em Schulz: Like I don't want... I don't wanna realize anymore.
Christine Schiefer: She's like a modern day prophet [laughter]
Em Schulz: Okay. Well, tell Kris Jenner, I'm sure she will use that in something.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I'm sure she's already created like, I don't know, [laughter] trademarked that, so I can't say it anymore. Umm, okay, let's get to my story, shall we?
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: This is the story of the Murder of Mia Zapata.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Obligatory pause to see if you know it.
Em Schulz: Always, I think out of however many episodes we've done, maybe 10, I've had a reaction. So...
Christine Schiefer: Okay. But those 10, it's a fun time.
Em Schulz: They were important. [laughter] It was...
Christine Schiefer: Those are special.
Em Schulz: They are very significant. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah. Okay. So, umm, just as a heads up, uh there are a number of sources here, but, uh, one that I found particularly helpful was an episode of a show called Dead of Night, which is like a, you know.
Em Schulz: Ooh.
Christine Schiefer: Classic Discovery Plus situation. Umm, and the episode is called Sound of Silence, and I watched it on Amazon Prime.
Em Schulz: Cool.
Christine Schiefer: So, it was cool. Thank you.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Mia was born in Chicago in August of 1965, to parents Richard and Donna Zapata. And when she was a young child, her family moved to Louisville, Kentucky, where she grew up in a suburb, attended a college prep high school. Umm, her parents though, worked in the media and they made quite a bit of money. Uh, and so Mia lived a pretty comfortable life, like very, I wanna say like traditional Midwest vibes, but also, her parents had quite a bit of money. Umm, so, you know, she, she had a, what was described as a smart, polished, and sophisticated family.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: So keep that in mind.
Em Schulz: It's like Dakota quality.
Christine Schiefer: Dakota quality in Louisville, Kentucky.
Em Schulz: Mm.
Christine Schiefer: You know what I mean? Fun mix.
Em Schulz: I... I do.
Christine Schiefer: Yup. So Mia and her friends, however, were described as sophisticated in a less traditional sense, which also sounds like the meanest thing you could say in like 1895 or something.
Em Schulz: Dakota boat quality.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Precisely. So basically what that meant is that Mia was creative, intelligent, musically gifted, like, you know, a little weird, a little different, like colored her hair, you know. So, had polish and sophistication and money, but was a little bit different than her kind of traditional parents and siblings. So, because of her musical abilities, umm, she ended up going to school at Antioch College which is up here in Ohio, Yellow Springs, Ohio; very small liberal arts school, shoutout. And while there, she formed a band and this would've been 1986. So her band mates were Joe Spleen, Steve Moriarty, and Matt Dresdner.
Em Schulz: Joe Spleen was meant to be in a fucking band.
Christine Schiefer: [chuckle] Joe Spleen sounds like the fakest name from a sitcom network. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Joe... Joe Spleen sounds like, there was a, a band called Jackyl that my dad really liked...
Christine Schiefer: Uh-huh.
Em Schulz: And uh, they had a song called The Lumberjack. And, at, at... The whole song, instead of like a guitar, someone's just revving a chainsaw.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my god... [laughter]
Em Schulz: And that feels like something Joe Spleen does.
Christine Schiefer: Is Joe Spleen level... Yeah.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Absolutely, it does. In the garage. Like, yeah...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: For sure. [chuckle] He's like, how about this, guys? He revs the lawn mower and they're like, not quite the same. Not quite the same.
Em Schulz: He's like, I call this one "The Lumberjack."
[vocalization]
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: They're like, Spleen, we told... What did we tell you?
Em Schulz: It's like, you know, they call him Spleeny.
Christine Schiefer: You knew... I was gonna say, you knew, they call him Spleen. Like there's no way they called him Joe. Okay. That... No way.
Em Schulz: But Joe Spleen like on a poster is like...
Christine Schiefer: That's killer. That's amazing.
Em Schulz: That's the most, like, like, who's the guy with the jean jacket from Stranger Things like that... The rocker, you know, he's obsessed with Joe Spleen.
Christine Schiefer: It's got... Yeah. The, Joe Spleen, umm, the, what do you call it when you do, when you hand stamp, like uh, art? Turk... It's like...
Em Schulz: Turkey? Thanksgiving turkey?
Christine Schiefer: It's like, [laughter] it's just a turkey that says just Spleen. [laughter] It's just his preschool artwork that they sent home.
Em Schulz: Can you... Can you imagine... Can you [laughter] imagine if we had a, a band poster, like a metal ba-band? But it's just a little turkey hand print and it says, "Joe Spleen."
Christine Schiefer: Okay, but do you realize like... You realize Xenon is also just like a ham turkey, [laughter] but just green. Right? Like, you realize that, right?
Em Schulz: She's just a turkey at the end of the day. Aren't we all?
Christine Schiefer: She is, she is a big old turkey. Anyway, I don't remember what we were talking about. So let's get back to this.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Uh the band, uh so the band, she has Joe Spleen, et cetera, et al. So, Matt first heard Mia sing at a college open mic night and he said, "I was transfixed and overcome, I cried." Like that's how much her voice resonated with him. He cried.
Em Schulz: Wow!
Christine Schiefer: He said, "It was raw, honest, to the bone and from the heart." So, you're gonna really love this. This is the name of the band and it sounds like something you call me as like a fun little pet name...
Em Schulz: [chuckle] Okay.
Christine Schiefer: They called themselves "Snivelling Little Rat-Faced Gits." [laughter]
Em Schulz: Umm.
Christine Schiefer: Now this is, full credit, a Monty Python reference, but still very funny.
Em Schulz: Oh, wait, okay. So it was Rat... What was it?
Christine Schiefer: "Snivelling Little Rat-Faced Gits."
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Yeah, that sounds right.
Christine Schiefer: So, yeah, it sounds great. And it... Uh I love it even more. Umm, so I, I think I already said this but it is a Monty Python reference but I think I love it even more because ultimately, the band name officially became The Gits.
Em Schulz: Not the Sniveling Rats, but yeah, I understand, The Gits.
Christine Schiefer: No... [laughter]
Em Schulz: The Gits does sound cooler but...
Christine Schiefer: But, but I like The Gits 'cause you're like, you don't really know what it is. And then when you find the backstory, it's like a really fun little, you know, lore behind it.
Em Schulz: Yeah. That's fun. What is a git?
Christine Schiefer: Uh, I assume it's just like a little, a brat? I don't know.
Em Schulz: Like a, "get out of here?"
Christine Schiefer: Maybe, that's kind of what... When I first heard The Gits... Oh, an unpleasant or contemptible person...
Em Schulz: Ugh, that is you.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, here it is... Em is a mean old git. There you go. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I'm so glad. Thank you.
Christine Schiefer: So they shortened it to The Gits, which I love, and Mia, like I said, was a very musical person. She'd grown up deeply passionate about music, learning to play guitar, piano, at a very early age. She and her siblings would sing together and she kept journals where she would write down thoughts, lyrics, poetry. Uh she was especially inspired by blues, jazz and RnB. And she found influence in work by singers like Billie Holiday, Bessie Smith, you know, very old school traditional artists. But meanwhile, The Gits were a punk rock band. And they were trying to get in on this eighties, nineties grunge scene that was so big, So Joe played the drums. Andrew was on guitar. Matt played bass and Mia was the obviously, singer and lyricist. And she drew on some of her earliest inspirations for their songs. They had a sort of bluesy tone which was like an homage to her...
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: Her interest in the blues umm, and it was also a new twist on punk rock. Like punk rock usually didn't have kind of a, a traditional blues, you know, uh, bent to it.
Em Schulz: Did you ever listen to like those, umm uh, I think they were like charity albums uh called like Punk Goes Crunk and Punk Goes Rock?
Christine Schiefer: No.
Em Schulz: Oh my gosh. Punk Goes Crunk was crazy. There was uh, it was like a bunch of like Warped Tour bands at the time. They would all get together and like do a song...
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: But it was like they would do a cover of...
Christine Schiefer: Change genre.
Em Schulz: Of a different genre. And there was like...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I love that!
Em Schulz: I... Uh, I... The one I listened to was Punk Goes Crunk but I think there was like...
Christine Schiefer: Punk Goes Crunk. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Pop Goes, Pop Goes Rock or Rock Goes Pop... But it was, it always like a, a genre shift. And I guess, the...
Christine Schiefer: I love that.
Em Schulz: The CD would, they'd get like the top 20 Warped Tour artists to cover a different song and the whole CD, the proceeds went to something. So...
Christine Schiefer: I mean, I yesterday saw a TikTok where a person was singing the most beautiful acoustic cover of Lil Wayne. And I was like, [laughter] this is, like, this is what I'm talking about. I love this energy, this creative mishmash, swapping... Swapping the genres, you know? I love it. I love it.
Em Schulz: There's, there's one I still listen to, umm, that, it was by, do you remember The Maine as like a band?
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm. Of course.
Em Schulz: They did. Umm... Oh, 'I Wanna Love You.'
Christine Schiefer: God.
Em Schulz: And they did a... It was Punk Goes Crunk, but The Maine, 'I Wanna Love You' is still something I listen to in my car all the time.
Christine Schiefer: Wait, by Akon?
Em Schulz: Yeah. I think so.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, see? Now that...
Em Schulz: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Christine Schiefer: I... I thought you meant it was the name of a main song, and I was like, I don't know the names of the songs, but they sang...
Em Schulz: Oh, no... The Maine did 'I Wanna Love You' by Akon. And it's, to this day...
Christine Schiefer: That is perfect.
Em Schulz: It's like one of my top listen-to songs.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I'm gonna pull the... I'm gonna listen to that later, too. I love that. I love it. Oh... Akon.com.
Em Schulz: So blues... Something goes... Blues Goes Rock, is what this is?
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Blue, right, right, right. Punk Goes... Kerplunk? I don't know. I'm not, I'm not... I'm uh, [laughter] clearly, I'm new to this whole thing, okay? Umm, so, basically, they had this bluesy tone, and so, I tell you that to say, their punk rock, even though there were so many of these '80s and '90s kind of grunge bands, theirs stood out, because they had this kind of different element to it. And wouldn't you know it, Mia and the band in 1989 thought, where are we gonna go to try and really make it in the grunge world? Where's that, Em?
Em Schulz: Hollywood.
Christine Schiefer: Seattle, Washington.
Em Schulz: Oh, okay. That makes sense.
Christine Schiefer: That, that is where the whole grunge scene was, you know, the biggest. So, they moved there in 1989 to Seattle, just a few years before grunge, the grunge wave like hit the city with full force. And Mia and her friends were newcomers to what was becoming like this burgeoning scene. If they wanted to be part of the community, they had to uh, make a space for themselves. So, they moved from Ohio to Seattle, they moved into this like rundown property, which they fondly dubbed, "The Rathouse."
Em Schulz: Ugh!
Christine Schiefer: And, uh, you just gotta love them. You gotta love them.
Em Schulz: I love them. I feel like I'd be friends with all of them.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, for sure. We'd be... So, [chuckle] we'd be having... Meanwhile, these socialites are having séances at the Dakota and we're like in The Rathouse having a real séance. [laughter]
Em Schulz: And we'd be like, why don't they invite us anywhere? I don't get it.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Why don't they want us at their séance?
Christine Schiefer: How come Fendi never sends me a tasteful tennis... Tennis outfit?
Em Schulz: Yeah. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Damn, I don't understand. So, The Gits were quickly welcomed into the grunge scene. Uh, and one journalist named Adem Tepedelen said, "They were very involved in the music scene. They took care of the scene and took care of each other. They put out their own records, they put out records by each other's bands."
Em Schulz: Aw.
Christine Schiefer: Just a very supportive... I know, I love it, very supportive grunge scene. Umm, a couple other bands, uh, that were kind of in their same circles were DC Beggars and 7 Year Bitch. That's another thing you call me sometimes. [laughter] You're the DC Beggar and I'm the 7 Year Bitch.
Em Schulz: Oh, man!
Christine Schiefer: And like, these must be bands... I don't know them, but I'm also not like cool... Like I don't know if you know these bands or anything. I don't.
Em Schulz: I've never heard of 7 Year Bitch, but they're about to be like, my Spotify like Wrapped at the end is gonna be like Joe Spleen and 7 Year Bitch and the Rats. And...
Christine Schiefer: And, and Akon.
Em Schulz: And Akon. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And that one Akon song. Oh my god. Yeah, so I mean they knew what they were doing. Like you could just tell these were fun folks. Umm, so their house, the Rathouse, uh, as it will always be known in my heart, was a social spot for parties and support... It was kind of like a meeting house, you know, where people would meet and party and, and just get together. So...
Em Schulz: They had texting back then? What year was this?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Well, it was 19... Early '90s, so not quite yet.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Maybe a pager?
Em Schulz: You know, if they had texting, it would be like, meet me at the Rathouse. Meet me at...
Christine Schiefer: Meet me... [chuckle] but...
Em Schulz: Or like they... They'd have like a, a Facebook...
Christine Schiefer: Like on the pager...
Em Schulz: Fan page.
Christine Schiefer: It would be like, uh, MM at RH, and you'd be like, what does it mean?
Em Schulz: Yeah. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Oh, my pager is... My beeper says I have to get to the Rathouse. Oh, lordy! Or it'll just say like 7 and you'll know like 7 Year Bitch is around. You know?
Em Schulz: Oh. I immediately would understand that one. Yeah, for sure.
Christine Schiefer: Then you would go. Yeah, then you'd be there. So, uh, Elizabeth Davis-Simpson, speaking of 7 Year Bitch, uh, was part of that band. And she said that Mia would often pop into their rehearsals just to like give 'em a thumbs up and say, you're doing great. [chuckle] So she is just...
Em Schulz: All right.
Christine Schiefer: I know I love it. She's just very supportive, very, uh, friendly and outgoing person. Some people, however, described her as more stoic with like a very, uh, closely guarded private side. Umm, even the people closest to her felt like she had some darker parts of herself that she didn't like, you know, give up as willingly. But they also thought of her as very kind, with an extremely great sense of humor. Umm, she was obviously very serious about music, but wasn't afraid to laugh at herself. For example, when she was little, her family called her chicken legs because she was double jointed and kind of had like a wobbly walk.
Em Schulz: Oh my god.
Christine Schiefer: So, they called her chicken legs. And so, as an adult, she got a chicken tattooed on her leg.
Em Schulz: Oh, that's fun.
Christine Schiefer: Isn't that cute?
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: I just love that. I just love it.
Em Schulz: It's kind of like when you call me tarantula legs and one day, I'll have a tarantula on my...
Christine Schiefer: One day, you'll wake up and I will have placed a tarantula on your leg. It'll be great. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Oh! Okay. Well, the next move is mine, I guess, after that. So...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Oh boy. Okay. So she and her bandmates, uh, dressed up as court jesters for one of their filmed performances... That she was just a, a goofy, fun person, but she was also sentimental. She would collect keepsakes. Umm, like she kept the dress that she wore to her sister's wedding, even though like she was not kind of a frilly-dressed type girl.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: She... It was so important to her that she had worn it in her sister's wedding that she kept it, which I think is very sweet. Mia was also self-assured and determined to pursue what she wanted, what she believed in. Umm, she, her aesthetic basically was the polar opposite of the kind of rich, uh, wealthy, private... Privately schooled household she grew up in. But her family was still very supportive of her, which is, you know, kind of unheard of...
Em Schulz: Nice.
Christine Schiefer: So I love that. She had dyed hair, she wore thrifted clothes. Umm, she kind of decided to forgo wealth, and these are things that, uh, her family were like very proud of her for, you know, even though they didn't totally fall in the same camp.
Em Schulz: She still, she sounds like that cousin at Thanksgiving that you just want so badly to like you. And like...
Christine Schiefer: Yes. Oh yeah. That everybody likes. Yeah and that's like...
Em Schulz: And she just well... Or like, maybe she does, maybe she like, hasn't, like a...
Christine Schiefer: She probably does. That's the thing.
Em Schulz: Like, a, a distant understanding and appreciation for you, but it's not enough for you when you need the constant direct validation.
Christine Schiefer: Everyone's just kind of like, in their sunlight. Yeah. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Yeah. It's like, I just want you to take me on your next adventure.
Christine Schiefer: Just want you to notice me...
Em Schulz: Get me out of this town.
Christine Schiefer: I'll just leave my open journal out and be like, oh, did you, umm, see that song I was writing?
[laughter]
Em Schulz: It was called Dirty Little Rat or something. So, umm.
Christine Schiefer: It's called dirty... It's called, I'm a dirty... I'm a thirsty little rat, and I live in a, I live in the, the, the walls of the Dakota, umm...
Em Schulz: Yeah. Okay. [laughter],
Christine Schiefer: But the ship, but the ship, not the building. Okay. [laughter] It's a Fallout Boy song. That's why there's so many words. Okay. Anyway, [laughter] let's get back to this bullshit. Okay. So her family was very supportive of her, even though, you know, she kind of issued the things that they had raised her with. Uh, her father even claimed that he had worked to teach Mia as a young girl, to understand that people from different communities and life experiences were just as valuable and just as important...
Em Schulz: Aw.
Christine Schiefer: I know. And he said of Mia and her peers, "Their road is not easy. Society... " Imagine someone's dad. Like this should be, if you have, umm, you know, any sort of issues with parental approval, everybody out there, maybe listen, close your eyes. Listen to this and pretend like this is your dad talking. Okay.
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: So this guy said of his daughter Mia and her peers in Seattle, "Their road is not easy. Society in general is quick to judge young people on appearance first and quality of character, second. Mia was different. She never judged anybody," and he... He just supported her all the way... All the way through, which makes, of course, the story just that much sadder.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: So, The Gits, for what it's worth, attracted a loyal local following. Uh, even though they were kind of just doing their own thing, not trying to pursue fame or anything like that, they did get a local following, leading up to their 1992 debut album called Frenching the Bully [laughter], which is just...
Em Schulz: I literally just want to marry them. I have a... They...
Christine Schiefer: Right? They should be invited into the Dakota. That's how creative they are. [laughter], like, get them in there.
Em Schulz: They, like, they all have like bisexual energy, like, and like...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, for sure.
Em Schulz: It's, like they're all just way too fucking cool. I could never touch them with a 10-foot pole because they wouldn't even let me. Like...
Christine Schiefer: Being in the room, you would wanna like, melt into the wall. You'd be like, I don't wanna even step foot on this magic.
Em Schulz: I, I just wanna watch them work. I just wanna...
Christine Schiefer: Watch them work.
Em Schulz: I just wanna be in their glow. Like, I just, I don't need...
Christine Schiefer: I just wish Making The Band was around to film it...
Em Schulz: Ugh.
Christine Schiefer: So I could see what's happening behind the scenes. [laughter]
Em Schulz: This is, I mean, every, it just, it also feels like a very, like, maybe intentionally, maybe unintentionally, well-oiled system, where it just seems like their whole thing, like they just naturally all work so well together, it's like...
Christine Schiefer: It's so wholesome. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: It's not competitive, it's, it's more...
Em Schulz: You're just, they're all rooting for each other.
Christine Schiefer: Which I feel like is kind of something you hear, at least. I mean, I'm not in... I know this is gonna be shocking. I'm wearing a literal pink Fallout Boy t-shirt right now, but, uh, I'm not in on the punks, like the real, like underground punk scene. Right? But I have friends who are, or who have been, and they're like, oh, it's just all about like, you host a show in your, at your place, and we'll host yours next. You know, it's a lot of like...
Em Schulz: Well, I feel like...
Christine Schiefer: Building each other up, supporting each other, that kind of thing.
Em Schulz: Uh, again, I am not the, uh, the usual [chuckle] spokesperson for punk world, but I feel like anything I have ever learned about punk or like the, the culture of it, is like...
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: It's just warm and kind. And it's almost like they seem scary at first if you don't understand them. Just 'cause like the aesthetics of it all...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: But like, I, I've never met someone who was in punk, who wasn't just...
Christine Schiefer: Who was just like a total dick.
Em Schulz: Lovely and kind and just...
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: Who just wants the best.
Christine Schiefer: I mean, I'm sure there are. Okay. Like, I imagine there are definitely punk rockers who are assholes. Like, don't get me wrong.
Em Schulz: Sure.
Christine Schiefer: But I think you're right, that, like, from what I've seen as well, the people I know in those circles are like, no...
Em Schulz: The stereotype I have, I have...
Christine Schiefer: We're all... We all just like cheerlead each other on.
Em Schulz: Yeah. The stereotype I've built in my head of them is that it's just like, kind of like how ev... Uh, how every, umm, and I'm sure there's assholes who are the exception, of course, but same with like, growing up and like, in our childhood, hearing like occult and satanic and all those stuff, and like, it's so scary.
Christine Schiefer: Oh sat... Yeah. Satanists. Right, right, right.
Em Schulz: And it's like, I've never met a Satanist who I didn't wanna hang out with. Like, they just all seem so lovely or like people I meet...
Christine Schiefer: Right, who wasn't like very empathetic and... Yeah, exactly. It...
Em Schulz: Yeah. It's like, it's like the, the, the big headline of it seems scary, but then when you meet them it's like, oh, these are actually the loveliest people I've ever met, so...
Christine Schiefer: And I think the cutest part is like...
Em Schulz: I feel like punk falls into that.
Christine Schiefer: I agree. And I think the cutest part is like, her dad is like, yeah, hell yeah.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: You know, don't judge them. They're great people and they have such great character. And I'm like, wow. Most people, but many people's parents would just immediately close that door and be like, forget it, you've crossed a line. You know? But I just, I love how, umm, much support and love she had in her life.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, all the way back in Kentucky. I just love it. [chuckle] So, anyway, they release their debut album, Frenching the Bully, our favorite, and, uh...
Em Schulz: Amazing.
Christine Schiefer: [laughter] Just so good. And umm...
Em Schulz: It's giving a mortal portal, but not douche bag.
Christine Schiefer: But like, but... Right. But like on the good side.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: On, on the flip... The quite opposite of that. Yeah. So, Mia had a presence on stage that was, people described it as electric. Her voice was described, which my heart, "As a mashup of singers such as Bessie Smith, Janis Joplin," just a very, I don't even know the right way to put it, but like a very, umm, earthy sound, almost.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: I mean, remember that guy said, one of her band mates said, the first time he heard her sing, he started crying.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, she just apparently had a really incredible voice. And the band as a whole, was blowing people away with their sound. Umm, people described, [laughter] I mean, maybe there were drugs involved here, but people described their live performances as "transcendent," so...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I know, I'm like they were doing...
Em Schulz: Either way, it sounds great.
Christine Schiefer: Something... Right. They were either handing out the correct, uh, dose of Ecstasy or, and/or they were putting on an incredible show. You know, something they were doing was working wonders and people in town were loving it. So, uh, there was this guy named Tim Somm of Alan... Atlantic Records, and when he talked about this whole era of The Gits, uh, he said, "We were used to seeing dynamic, charismatic Punk rock performers in front of people. Rarely did they have voices as powerful or as rooted in rock and blues tradition as Mia. She was just this melodic, powerful foghorn at the center of this tsunami that was The Gits."
Em Schulz: Holy shit.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. So they were making waves, so to speak. And Mia herself, umm, fun fact, was obviously not a white male in a very white male dominated scene. She was actually identified as a Latina woman. And so this also kind of helped her pave the way for other women in her community to follow suit and start making music and join bands. It was like she, I don't know, led the way, led the way for for women of color to kind of participate in, in this men-dominated scene. So, by the summer of 1993, the band had made a strong name for itself and its newest singles were getting positive reviews from fans and even from music critics who are really into their sound. A lot of people expected them to "make it," and like you sort of said earlier, you know, go to Hollywood, like make it big, get signed by a label.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: They drove down to LA for another band's show, but while they were there, they met with Tim Somm, who I just quoted earlier. Umm, and at that point, he was the A&R representative, which stands for Artists and Repertoire.
Em Schulz: Oh!
Christine Schiefer: The A&R representative for Atlantic Records. So he is a bigwig, or was at the time. He later said, "Once I became aware of The Gits and I saw them perform, it was a no-brainer for me." So, Atlantic Records has eyed these folks.
Em Schulz: Mm.
Christine Schiefer: The Gits were signed, but not even a week later, everything came crashing down in the worst way.
Em Schulz: A week later?
Christine Schiefer: A week. Less than a week.
Em Schulz: Oof!
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah. So, around midnight, on July 7th, 1993, Mia was at Comet Tavern in Seattle's Capitol Hill neighborhood drinking with friends. And she admitted she was feeling down about her ex-boyfriend Robert Jenkins, because he had started seeing a new girl and she felt insecure and just bummed out about it. So, her friends, meaning well, suggested she go talk to him. And, you know, first, she said, no, I don't think so. But after a few drinks, she agreed. She said, I'm just gonna pop in, talk to him for a minute...
Em Schulz: Just see what it's about...
Christine Schiefer: See, just check and see, I mean, that's something I would fucking do...
Em Schulz: Drink in the scene.
Christine Schiefer: Drink in the scene, drink in some drinks, drink in the scene, see what's happening. Uh, so she agreed. She said, you know what? Yeah, I'll go talk to him. So according to Rolling Stone, 'cause they do a pretty full coverage of this whole story, Mia reportedly left the bar around midnight to look for Robert Jenkins, her ex, at a rehearsal space about one block away from the bar. And when she arrived, he wasn't there. So instead, she went to a friend's apartment in the same building. Right?
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: So she, she goes down the street, it's like a block away from the bar. She pops into the recording space, doesn't see her ex, Robert. So, her friend lives in the same building. So she goes there instead. She stays at this friend's apartment until about 2:00 AM and that would be the last time she was ever seen alive.
Em Schulz: Oh wow. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: So, it's not known to us what Zapata did for the next 80 minutes. Uh, she may have gone to a taxi stand. She may have continued looking for her ex, Robert Jenkins. But what we do know is that around 3:20 AM, a sex worker walking in the central area, almost two miles from the Comet, noticed Mia Zapata's body lying on a deserted street. Of course, authorities were called, first responders attempted to revive her, but it was too late. And horribly, investigators determined that Mia had first been raped and then strangled to death with the hoodie cords of her own Gits sweatshirt.
Em Schulz: Gasp. I didn't even know you could do that.
Christine Schiefer: Isn't that horrific? She's like...
Em Schulz: By her own hoodie strings?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah. By her own hoodie strings.
Em Schulz: Oh my god. I'd literally never even thought that was a possible way.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: That totally makes sense though. I mean...
Christine Schiefer: I mean, it does, unfortunately, but, ugh.
Em Schulz: That's a very intentional way to go. That wasn't an accident.
Christine Schiefer: It feels very... It feels very, especially 'cause it was her band shirt, right? You know.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: It's just, ugh.
Em Schulz: It also, uh, but it also just feels like it was like a very personal or like intimate way to... That's a very up close and personal way to hurt somebody.
Christine Schiefer: It sure, it sure does. Yes. So Mia didn't show up for rehearsal the next day, obviously, and that was not at all like her. So her friends started calling around town; they started calling hospitals, police stations. At this point, they didn't know, obviously, that she had been killed. And then finally, and this part just got me because I thought to myself, imagine being in this room where somebody finally says what everyone's thinking, which is, we have to call the morgues.
Em Schulz: Mm.
Christine Schiefer: They've called all the hospitals, they've called all the police stations. They've called all of...
Em Schulz: I wouldn't even think to call a morgue, that's innovative.
Christine Schiefer: Uh. Yeah. And it is, and I, I, yeah. I thought to myself, I don't know who would've come up with that, but that person would've had to break through an awkward silence, I imagine.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: So yeah, somebody suggests, you know, what we gotta call a morgue. And they did. And unfortunately their worst fears were confirmed when the medical examiner told Steve Moriarty, "It's your singer, I'm sorry. You should get someone to come down and identify her."
Em Schulz: Oh my god.
Christine Schiefer: And Steve, who had made this call to the morgue, uh, later said, it was a lifelong traumatic moment...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Which gave me goosecam, I don't know the phrase, "lifelong traumatic moment" is very chilling.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: So, of course, understandably, Mia's death shook the scene to its core. Uh, honestly, very similar to the way Kurt Cobain's death, uh, a year later would affect the grunge community as well. There was no evidence at the scene: No blood, no semen, no fingerprints, no footprints, no witnesses, and no leads. And so investigators are like, we have to consider everyone. So, they took Mia's journals and they searched for clues in them. Maybe there was a jealous ex. Was there a stalker that her friends didn't know about? Uh, was it a different band, like a rival band? Umm, could it have been one of her band mates and best friends? Umm, they couldn't imagine it being, but they had to... They had to check. And of course, knowing she'd been trying to find her ex, Robert Jenkins, they look into him immediately. Uh, but of course, he has an airtight alibi. He was with several other people. Joan Jett, actually...
Em Schulz: What?
Christine Schiefer: Of Joan Jett and the Blackhearts told Rolling Stone's magazine, "You can imagine this vibe that sort of came over Seattle when it happened. People just not knowing who did it."
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: So I ima... I imagine like we've been talking up this whole community as like so close and supportive and tight-knit, and then for something like this to happen, I imagine is very rattling because you're like, is it some, is it one of us?
Em Schulz: Yeah. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: You know, is it somebody that she took care of that, you know... Ooh, just creepy. So, you know, they didn't know who it was. They barely had any clues, or virtually zero. And the suspense and fear was very damaging to the people in Mia's life. Her friends and family, uh, continually spoke with journalists just trying to get the word out there for the killer to be caught. But there was an unusually number, high number of murders in the area that summer. And because of all of the, I don't know, the spike in crime, uh, police were overwhelmed with the number of inve... Of investigations and the case just kind of faded away.
Em Schulz: Really?
Christine Schiefer: And, yes.
Em Schulz: So was it like a cold case for a while?
Christine Schiefer: Uh, sure was.
Em Schulz: Wow. Oh my gosh.
Christine Schiefer: Yep. Yep. So women who either knew Mia or even knew about her were suddenly changing their habits. Umm, people avoided, women, especially avoided going out alone, especially in that particular neighborhood where she wa... Had been killed. And, you know, people were thinking if her murderer were an obsessed fan, uh, maybe anyone else in the music scene could be the next target, right?
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: So, the community rallied behind The Gits, which was Mia's, uh, chosen second family and Steve, Joe and Matt decided to organize benefit concerts, because they needed to raise money to hire a private investigator, because they wanted to get to the bottom of this.
Em Schulz: Smart.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, exactly. So they are, of course, as we know, very creative and they organized this benefit concert, which actually featured Nirvana as a special guest.
Em Schulz: Shut up. Wow.
Christine Schiefer: Uh, yeah. Yeah. So they, you know, Nirvana helped, uh, I think I've actually watched video clip of this like years ago, but Nirvana actually helped spread the word about Mia, trying to get some answers out there. And, uh, the... The money came in. They were able to hire a private investigator, umm, who started her own digging. And meanwhile, Valerie Agnew of 7 Year Bitch founded the Home Alive organization, which provide... Imagine like trying to get a loan for starting an organization. [laughter] You're like, hi, I'm Valerie of 7 Year Bitch. Like...
Em Schulz: Well, you know, they had to ask like, and what is your profession? Like, how can we... Where could we put the money?
Christine Schiefer: Right, exactly. What's your company name? Yeah. [laughter]
Em Schulz: It's 7 Year Bitch. 7 Year Bitch.
Christine Schiefer: She just, uh, yeah. Umm, so she founded the Home Alive organization, which provided self-defense information and resources to women, badass, love it. In 1996, The Gits released a benefit album called Home Alive, which featured artists like Pearl Jam and Soundgarden.
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: Like did this... Yeah. This, it had a big impact on this, on the, on the scene. 7 Year Bitch also released their second album, which was called ¡Viva Zapata! , with songs dedicated to Mia.
Christine Schiefer: Wow. That's so sad.
Em Schulz: Sweet. Joan Jett actually wrote her song 'Go Home,' uh, about Mia and the music video as well, and dedicated it to Mia, and it was released on her band's 1994 album. MTV played the music video, but refused to include the dedication to Mia at the end, but for some reason, they never said why. So we don't really know, but they took that part out.
Em Schulz: Mm. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: The Gits reached out to Joan and she recorded a live album with The Gits in 1995. And unfortunately, even though they had been able to hire this private investigator and pay her, uh, she was not able to dig up any... She, she dug up some weirdos. If you watch that show I mentioned earlier, there were some weird fans who, uh...
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: One, one, one guy she kind of was looking into had a notebook that said, god, Mia, death.
Em Schulz: Ugh.
Christine Schiefer: And so she's like, well, I think we found our guy. Nope, just a weirdo. Uh, so.
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: You know, she was kind of not getting anywhere. The case went cold, just like you, just like you guessed, uh, for nearly a decade. And, of course.
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: Mia's loved ones were just stunned. I mean, 10 years of just no answers whatsoever.
Em Schulz: Mm.
Christine Schiefer: Then we get to December 2002, and that is when the Washington State Patrol Crime Lab took a DNA sample that had been swabbed nine years earlier, back in 1993. Now, this was a saliva sample that, we've seen this a couple times. Thank god, a pathologist or a medical examiner, took the initiative to get that DNA swab and freeze it.
Em Schulz: Mm.
Christine Schiefer: Even though he, there was no way to test it back then, so...
Em Schulz: He just knew, we might need this. We don't know.
Christine Schiefer: He just knew, we might need it. Yes. Basically took more than... More than the evidence he needed, you know, and then when the time came and it was available for genetic testing, they had a sample that was frozen. So, wonderful. Love to see it. So, this DNA sample was sent to the lab, and, uh, it was such a small sample, had been around for so long, they didn't really expect, uh, all that much. And so, they sent it in and as expected, nothing; no hits, no match, until six months later.
Em Schulz: Gasp.
Christine Schiefer: Six months. In December of 2002, the lab called back out of the blue and said, someone's DNA was just entered into the system and it's a match.
Em Schulz: Oh. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: So, basically, this DNA sample didn't match anybody in the system and then only six months later, someone's DNAs gets added.
Em Schulz: It was just perfect timing.
Christine Schiefer: Perfect timing. So, thank god, uh, this hit came through and a 48-year-old Cuban-born Jesus Mezquia, who's a fisherman in Florida...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Is the match to this sample.
Em Schulz: Was he like a mega fan or in love with her and she turned him down, or?
Christine Schiefer: Nope.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: So, they look through old police records and they discover a 1993 Seattle traffic ticket in Mezquia's name. So they placed him in Seattle, even though he lives in Florida, they placed him in Seattle at the time of Mia's murder. And not only that, but he was actually staying with his girlfriend who lived 12 blocks away from where Mia's body had been found.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: So, they...
Em Schulz: Well, ding, ding, ding to me.
Christine Schiefer: Ding, ding, ding. They fly down to Florida but they don't wanna tip him off quite yet. So they make up a ruse. And I just, you know...
Em Schulz: Oh. I love a ruse, Christine.
Christine Schiefer: Love a good ruse... There's nothing like a ruse, nothing like it.
Em Schulz: Nothing.
Christine Schiefer: So, they make this ruse and they show him a number of women and asking if they've... If he's had sexual relations with them. And they show a number of women, then they show a picture of Mia, and he says, no, you know, he says no to everybody. And then he says no about Mia. And they say, are you sure? He says, no. I mean, yeah. He says, yes, [chuckle] I am sure that no, I have not had relations with this per... Well, not the Bill Clinton way but...
Em Schulz: I got you. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: He says, no. Uh, no no no no no. So, what they were doing is they were giving him one chance to claim that he had somehow been seeing Mia romantically, even though that would've been a stretch...
Em Schulz: Ah.
Christine Schiefer: But he could have used that as an excuse for why his saliva was found on her.
Em Schulz: Uh-huh.
Christine Schiefer: But since he vehemently denied any relationship, they said, well, then your DNA must be on there for an unwilling reason...
Em Schulz: Uh-huh.
Christine Schiefer: And we are gonna arrest you. So they nailed him.
Em Schulz: Good job.
Christine Schiefer: Good job.
Em Schulz: I love a ruse. Goddamn it. You know...
Christine Schiefer: A ruse, it's just so good.
Em Schulz: A plan, I'd rather not, but a ruse?
Christine Schiefer: Forget it.
Em Schulz: Oh, I'm locked in.
Christine Schiefer: Any day.
Em Schulz: Especially when it's like that, when it's, uh, we're gonna trick a man. Oh!
Christine Schiefer: When it's justice.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Oh. Done.
Christine Schiefer: Grunge justice. Try a ruse. [laughter] Okay. Anyway, so he's moved to Seattle for trial. He's sentenced to 27 years in prison after just three days of jury deliberation, that took place March 25th, 2004. And the sentence exceeded the maximum allowed sentence due to aggravating circumstances surrounding the attack, uh, which I guess, was violating a previous Supreme Court ruling. So then later, the sentence was overturned and Jesus was re-sentenced within the guidelines, but it ended up being basically the same amount of time. So, sometimes the legal system makes me wanna just bash my head in against a wall, but whatever...
Em Schulz: What?
Christine Schiefer: Uh, it's just confusing. Mia's wake was held in Washington and she was buried, uh, in her hometown of Louisville, Kentucky. On January 21st, 2021, her killer died in prison at 66 years old. And Steve, uh, who we had discussed earlier, told Rolling Stone, "I was actually thinking for years how I would react when he was released. He was a profoundly distracting influence on my life for the last 25 years. Good riddance."
Em Schulz: Mm.
Christine Schiefer: Steve is full of these zingers. He's the one who said, "a lifelong trauma" or whatever. Like he's...
Em Schulz: I feel like he should...
Christine Schiefer: He's got words for days.
Em Schulz: Get the band back together in 2002.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Or whenever it was. Even today. Get the, do a reunion show with all the people who helped bring the killer.
Christine Schiefer: Aw.
Em Schulz: You know and like bring, uh, Mia's killer to justice.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Like an honorary, like a tribute.
Em Schulz: Joan Jett isn't alive anymore though, is she?
Christine Schiefer: Oh?
Em Schulz: Is she?
Christine Schiefer: I thought she was, but maybe she's not. Let's find out.
Em Schulz: Who am I thinking of? Janis Joplin.
Christine Schiefer: Is this podcast just us figuring... Oh, Janis Joplin's certainly not alive.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: But, uh, Joan Jett is, yeah. She's only 65.
Em Schulz: Yeah. So Joan Jett and The Gits should get back together.
Christine Schiefer: Absolutely.
Em Schulz: Do a little beep boop bop. Look what we did. Fuck this guy.
Christine Schiefer: They should do a, uh, a grunge to kerplunge or whatever I said 'cause I feel like, [laughter] if they did a fun, like, twist on, uh, the genre... A genre twist, genre bender, if you will.
Em Schulz: I love it.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, well, I feel like I would... TikTok would eat that shit up, you know?
Em Schulz: That's what I'm saying.
Christine Schiefer: Just saying. Just saying.
Em Schulz: Anyway, if you know anybody who knows anybody who knows them, you let them know that, that was our idea and then they do it.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah.
Em Schulz: And then we get credit. That's what I'm saying.
Christine Schiefer: 'Cause I want, we're not very punk, we're not punk enough to say we don't want the credit for it. [laughter]
Em Schulz: What does, what does your shirt say again?
Christine Schiefer: It says, "Someone in Fallout Boy loves me." [laughter]
Em Schulz: Okay. So that's the kind of vibe we're... We're offering. And if you that's of interest to you, Joan Jett, then you let us know.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, you know, you... You get, you see... You get what you see. You see what you get, you know, that whole thing. Umm...
Em Schulz: Yeah. Nothing special. Just a couple of rats that are not welcome to the rat's nest or whatever it's called...
Christine Schiefer: A couple little dirty rats in our own rat nest. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Speaking of rats, everybody...
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Wait, my story's not done though.
Em Schulz: Okay. But you remind me when it's time.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Okay.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: We can drink the water now. I just didn't know if you thought that the story was over.
Em Schulz: No, I, I need to do it, uh, we need to do, uh, we need to do it afterwards. So, you, you finish first.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, after. Okay, great. Okay. So Steve said, uh, you know, he's, "This asshole murderer has been a profoundly distracting influence... Influence on my life. Good riddance." The Gits released a statement that said, "Mia Zapata was an extraordinary human being. She was a beloved friend, a gifted songwriter, musician, visual artist, and performer. Rather than focusing on her death, we prefer to remember her friendship, talent, humor, and the incredible art and music she left to the world." And thankfully, those things have not been forgotten. Mia and The Gits' music still continue to thrill and motivate fans and aspiring artists, new young people entering the genre. And the Home Alive organization has also left its mark, which is great because of course, they provide safety resources and support to anybody who needs it. Umm, and so, they've made a big mark as well. Mia, herself, is considered an important figure in the legacy of Latina women in the punk rock and Riot Grrrl musical movements. And according to Joan Jett, who's very much alive, as we just discovered, her, [chuckle] "Her legacy should be beautiful, strong punk-rock music coming from a woman's perspective, because that's who she was."
Em Schulz: Mm.
Christine Schiefer: Mia's emotions, music and voice were too powerful to be silenced and her own experiences that she shared through music still resonate with global audiences today, as you can probably tell. And that is a story of the murder of Mia Zapata.
Em Schulz: Wow.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: What, what a, what a character she is.
Em Schulz: That was, umm, you know, in the darkest sense, one of my favorite stories you've done.
Christine Schiefer: Really? Wow.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Yeah, I'm so...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. I'm so happy to hear that. I mean, yours was one of my favorites we've ever done, so.
Em Schulz: Oh, stop it.
Christine Schiefer: Eva, write that down, [chuckle] 'cause some... Someday we'll go. We'll never... We never like any of our episodes. And then Eva can be, like you said you liked this one on-air, so. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Also, Eva, can you write down the, umm, [chuckle] that one of the funniest things that's happened recently is last week, when I said, "Fee-fi-fo-fum," in reference to me, [laughter] trick-or-treating as a giant, as a child...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I forgot about... I absolutely forgot about that.
Em Schulz: For like an audio bit, that was...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. 'Cause that was unhinged, too.
Em Schulz: Just about one of my favorites. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: "Fee... " [laughter] Forgot about that. That was... Was that the same episode as [2:11:23.4] ____ Corny Sean Khan? Because I think we... [chuckle]
Em Schulz: No, Corny Sean Kahan, that didn't happen in that episode. That was in our...
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: After chat. No one knows.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, shit. That's for Patreon only, you guys can't know about it. It's so special.
Em Schulz: We're making shirts. We have to make a shirt.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, we have to make shirts. Gasp. Can that be our Patreon-exclusive item? Like you, you couldn't buy it unless you're...
Em Schulz: Yes. That could be our Patreon exclusive.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my god. Oh my god. Eva, Eva, Eva. Oh my god. Yes!
Em Schulz: Yeah, if you, if you join our Patreon, you just might be getting a, a shirt that says, [2:11:51.8] ____ ala Corny Sean Khan." And you won't even know what it means.
Christine Schiefer: You just might. You just might.
Em Schulz: You just might.
Christine Schiefer: You better get on it.
Em Schulz: It's kind of a big deal. [chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: It's kind of a big deal.
Em Schulz: Okay. Anyway...
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Anyway.
Em Schulz: With that, folks, [laughter] uh, thank you, Christine, for your, your grand storytelling and...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, wow. You're so welcome. Thank you for...
Em Schulz: I've already found them, and, umm, I, I've, I've already found them, I'm gonna go add them on Spotify and...
Christine Schiefer: The play... Yes. Hell, yes. I'm gonna do that, too.
Em Schulz: All right. Uh. And...
Christine Schiefer: That's...
Em Schulz: Why...
Christine Schiefer: We...
Em Schulz: Drink.
