[intro music]
Em Schulz: Oh look. Another fine day of Em and Christine's voice in your ears.
Christine Schiefer: Ahh! That's how I feel today.
Em Schulz: Uh, we... We did our usual thing where we were... We essentially did a sad, happy hour before we got on here. And usually we're done recording by now, and now we're starting. So, umm, my brain's a little shot, which should make this for... Make an interesting episode. I guess.
Christine Schiefer: I got to say my Zoloft is not working today, you know what I mean?
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm. No.
Christine Schiefer: I...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: No, umm, I was talking to Eva about this before you hopped on, and the Zoloft has helped so much with my tummy aches.
Em Schulz: Ooh.
Christine Schiefer: Like, I used to get a tummy ache with even the slightest, like ner... Excuse me, slightest nerve.
Em Schulz: Girl, [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Girl. Delete that Jack. He's not gonna delete it. Is he?
Em Schulz: Not gonna delete it.
Christine Schiefer: A!. Umm, I used to get a tummy ache with even the slightest, like anxi... Like nerve, you know, like my tummy would just be constantly flipping upside down.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: And the Zoloft has really stopped that from happening when it's unnecessary. But sometimes something breaks through the Zoloft and I'm like, no, my tummy. And we've just had it like, kind of a weird week, you and I, and like back from... I'm back from my trip and I know not everybody listens to Listeners episode, but if you wanna hear what I ate on my trip...
Em Schulz: Oh right.
Christine Schiefer: You can go listen to that. [laughter] Umm, but yeah, I just feel like we're in a weird space. I don't know if this is my Saturn return. I'm not really sure what that means, but maybe that's what's happening. I don't know. I feel like I'm... I'm unsettled, I'm like reeling sort of?
Em Schulz: Mm.
Christine Schiefer: And so I think I need to take, umm, a little bit of anxiety medication and I'm sorry about it, but I... I... It's just been a long time since my tummy aches won't go away.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm. Is it like you need like a... Like a potty or your tummy aches just... You just have a constant flipness?
Christine Schiefer: Umm, both, but thankfully for you, I'm drinking a venti coffee, so that'll help.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I don't know about that, but, okay. Umm, I... No, I feel the same way. I feel reeling is a good word and I don't know why.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm!
Em Schulz: I feel like there's something going on in time and space.
Christine Schiefer: I keep saying tailspin, like I feel like I'm in a tailspin almost.
Em Schulz: You too.
Christine Schiefer: I feel like we're...
Em Schulz: You've said it a lot today.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. You're like, yeah, please stop. It's annoying. No.
Em Schulz: No, it's just... It's become the theme of today.
Christine Schiefer: Well I used to... I described it while I was describing... Or I used that term while describing something that happened in the car. And then I went, wait, wait, wait. I wanna clarify. I was not literally in a tailspin [laughter] because I was driving my toddler home. I was not in a tailspin, but mentally indeed I was. Uh, but yeah, it feels like we're reeling. I don't know. Isn't it weird? I feel like something's off in the...
Em Schulz: Something feels very off.
Christine Schiefer: Atmosphere. Right?
Em Schulz: It's...
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: So if anyone else is feeling that way, umm, and we're back to recording on our usual programming.
Christine Schiefer: Last minute.
Em Schulz: So when... When you hear this, it is... If you're listening on the day that it releases, it's pretty close to the time...
Christine Schiefer: It's like same week. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Yeah. This isn't like months in advance anymore. So like we, if you're feeling it, we're feeling it. Can someone confirm that you're also feeling it?
Christine Schiefer: No...
Em Schulz: 'Cause something's going on.
Christine Schiefer: Tell Saturn to knock it off.
Em Schulz: Is it Saturn's fault today?
Christine Schiefer: I don't know, man. I just keep seeing the word Saturn return and it sounds cool.
Em Schulz: Okay, great.
Christine Schiefer: [laughter] Umm... [laughter] Also...
Em Schulz: Uh. Would you... Yeah, go for it.
Christine Schiefer: Ah! I was just gonna say, how are you? Why do you drink? What's the haps what's the tea?
Em Schulz: I don't know what the haps is. I was supposed to have another vein surgery tomorrow and I canceled that shit 'cause I'm over it.
Christine Schiefer: Yes!
Em Schulz: Umm, And I...
Christine Schiefer: You can't have a vein surgery amidst your Saturn return. Okay. Like, let's all be real.
Em Schulz: Girl, please. Please That's what I told them on the phone.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And they said, "This is LA we get that a lot."
Em Schulz: And they went, "You're like the third person today. We totally get it." [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Umm...
Christine Schiefer: We'll wait for the planets to align.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: No, I wanna get a second opinion because I really... I think I complained about this to you. I don't know if it was on the show or off the show, but like, it was kinda, I don't wanna say shady. I would like to trust that they knew what they were doing and they never like, implied that they didn't know what they were doing. But every time I went in for a checkup, they would say like, "Oh, you need another ablation." And I'm like, you should have fucking told me about that by now. So.
Christine Schiefer: Oh I see.
Em Schulz: It feels a little, my... My spidey senses are going up. So I'm gonna go to a different doctor and get a second opinion.
Christine Schiefer: Trust that gut you know. Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: Umm, anyway, uh, what's going on with me? [laughter] Not much, but I... It really not. Today's Monday. What? It's not for people listening, but for you I mean it's Monday.
Christine Schiefer: Congratulations. [laughter]
Em Schulz: And well, Monday is my cleaning day. And so every time that we record, I also know it's cleaning day. And so I get a little overwhelmed because I used to take a nap after we would record. Uh, and now I like have to go into like kind of an intense cleaning mode.
Christine Schiefer: Why?
Em Schulz: 'Cause I'm not one to... 'Cause I... I wanna... I have to clean once a week, but I...
Christine Schiefer: I never clean. It's terrible.
Em Schulz: It's part of my, umm, agreement with myself and also with Allison. I'm trying to contribute more. And I don't... Not that she... There wasn't like any like big kerfuffle about it. I just wanna be better about that. And so I realized that I can't... I'm not one of those people who can do like one room a day. 'Cause then I just feel like I'm constantly... I have a task that's never been finished.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: So I... I have to clean everything in one horrible day and then I have a week to relax in my very clean space.
Christine Schiefer: That sounds terrible.
Em Schulz: Yeah. That's how I feel right now. Where I'm like, "Ugh, I have to do a lot of cleaning after this." So...
Christine Schiefer: I feel like your... All house is always clean, but I don't know.
Em Schulz: Girl.
Christine Schiefer: I mean, I live in a da... [laughter] That looks more like it now that I can relate to.
Em Schulz: For those of you on YouTube, this is the Troll Hole. This is why I have a new background recently because I just look like, I don't know, my closet and my suitcase all vomited. So. I can clean that...
Christine Schiefer: Okay. I feel better about myself because that is almost what... That is what my house always looks. Like always looks like. Like it is not clean.
Em Schulz: You have... First of all, and that's not true.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: And also you're... You have a baby, a dog, two cats and a Blaise. And yourself. So it's like...
Christine Schiefer: It's a circus. What do I do?
Em Schulz: And in your house you also like are one of those like '90s sitcoms where you live right next door to all your family members who are always coming in and out. À la Kimmy Gibbler style.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Like you've got... You...
Christine Schiefer: I am telling you, I don't and I don't clean, I don't... I'm not good at it. I'm bad at it. I wish I were better at it. I should probably make an agreement with myself and Blaise. 'Cause he cleans everything and does all the dishes and all the laundry. And I sit there and go, ahhh!
Em Schulz: Blaise is such a Superhero.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Like, I don't know, I'm in a tailspin. What am I doing? I'm literal just spinning on my tail.
Em Schulz: Well, it's Saturn. It's Saturn. It's Saturn.
Christine Schiefer: It's Saturn.
Em Schulz: Well so...
Christine Schiefer: Why doesn't anybody understand? Now I'm... Oh.
Em Schulz: I will say...
Christine Schiefer: I picked up this dirty shirt I was sitting next to. So.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I was like, what am I holding?
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I will say, I feel like this agreement I have, uh...
Christine Schiefer: I like that. It's smart.
Em Schulz: What?
Christine Schiefer: That you have that. Like, I think that's a nice structure.
Em Schulz: Oh, thank You. Well, it'll have to change when we move one day because... I mean, I only have like 1200 square feet I have to care about if I had your house...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, that's true.
Em Schulz: I wouldn't even be able to begin to clean 'cause...
Christine Schiefer: It's not even funny, I just leave it alone. Like I just let it.
Em Schulz: It'd be so overwhelming. It'd be so overwhelming.
Christine Schiefer: Like the other day I walked upstairs and they have like a vent on the side of the wall. And I looked at it and I went, oh my God. It was like just animal hair.
Em Schulz: Oh. We have one of those...
Christine Schiefer: Filthy.
Em Schulz: It wouldn't have animal hair. It's just like dust 'cause like we're...
Christine Schiefer: It just accumulates.
Em Schulz: We're a couple that... Umm, some people are not as lucky as we are, but I made one very specific demand when we moved anywhere. And I was like, "We have to have central AC we have to."
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: And then it has to be running constantly.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Even if it's cold outside and like... And so it's just collects so much dust. It's just disgusting.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. I walked past and went, "Oh God, how many of those or a similar, uh, trinkets are in my house that I don't even notice."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Day to day? And I'm like, oh my God, there's an entire new animal built out of dog hair.
Em Schulz: Oh, I... I am... Honestly, if I had an animal, I would also be more overwhelmed because just the human dust that... That it is like, on things I get so overwhelmed. Like I have like all my little chachkas. I'm sitting next to like a million of them and I just know... Hang on, like, just for fun. Let's see. The finger swipe.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no, don't do that. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Yeah, like I got... I got clean.
Christine Schiefer: Let's see.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no, it's hanging off my finger.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It's hanging off it, if you can see that. Yeah. Nasty. I... I...
Em Schulz: We're dirty little rats.
Christine Schiefer: Well yeah, I'm a dirty rat and that is why I drink. Also, I'm home from Sweden. I don't have too much to say except that was wonderful. Umm, and I'm home. And, umm...
Em Schulz: And to reiterate, because it is a... A miracle story that your baby was lovely on the plane to and fro.
Christine Schiefer: She's a fucking delight. I mean... Okay. It wasn't like easy, but it wasn't as stressful or hu... I mean it was stressful. Umm, I haven't even told you. We got on the plane and we had a layover in Detroit and then an overnight flight to... Into Amsterdam, right? We get to Detroit an hour late, miss our flight by like two minutes to Europe and they're like...
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: The next flight is tomorrow evening. And we're like...
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: It's two o'clock in the afternoon. And they're like, "Well the next flight's tomorrow at 6:00." So we got stuck in Detroit for a whole day and I had to do an Instacart from Walmart to get like new clothes and... 'Cause I'm not one of those people who follows the rule of pack, you know, your toothbrush and everything and pack your... In your carry-on. I just don't do it. And so I had to order clothes from Walmart.
[chuckle]
Em Schulz: Can confirm. As someone who's traveled quite a lot with you.
Christine Schiefer: I just like, don't... I'm like, "Well then I'll just buy a toothbrush." I don't know. I don't have time to coordinate whatever. So anyway, we're literally in Detroit. I'm supposed to be... I'm getting like emails. So the reason I went to Europe, by the way guys, is I got, umm, a new car for the first time ever. I was very excited about it. It's a Volvo. Am I allowed to tell people that? I guess, right. Umm, and I... I wanted...
Em Schulz: Sure.
Christine Schiefer: I want... So I've been driving my Ford for many, many years. I love the car a lot, but I needed a bigger car. So I was getting a Volvo. And then we found out that for free, fun fact, you can get... Well not for free, it's for the price of the car, which is pricey.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: But you have to... You can... They'll fly you to Sweden, they'll pay for your ticket. And so since Blaise and I... And then you get to drive the car there. So since Blaise and I were already going to Europe this year to visit my family in Germany and bring his parents to Germany for the first time, we were like, perfect, we'll just combine the trips. Well, so I'm getting emails from Volvo being like, "Your pickup... Your... Your factory tour of the Volvo factory is in an hour." And I'm like, "I'm in Detroit!"
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Like, uh, I don't know of... Airport hotel. It was just... So basically we got to Sweden, we had about 12 hours there. Umm, which was a real bummer 'cause it was so cool for the 12 hours we were there and drove through Denmark, got on a ferry to Germany.
Em Schulz: Mmm.
Christine Schiefer: Drove to Austria and drove back to...
Em Schulz: Really broken the mileage on that Volvo. Huh?
Christine Schiefer: I think it was 2,600 kilometers.
Em Schulz: I don't know what that means.
Christine Schiefer: I don't either.
Em Schulz: Kilometers.
Christine Schiefer: Anyway. And now they're like, I guess shipping it back to me. Umm, and I have to pay for it.
Em Schulz: So they just give you a little test, spin.
Christine Schiefer: It's a test spin. I went through four countries with it. It was pretty cool. It's a cool program. So if you're looking into getting one, umm, it's a cool idea. It's a cool concept. Umm, I am very fortunate I was able to do it, but it was very... Uh, chaotic. And... But Leona, I'm telling you, she's a trooper. We... I feel like we hit every possible like roadblock that you can hit traveling. Like we literally ran out of diapers 'cause I didn't pack enough.
Em Schulz: Oh God.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Like every little thing. And she was just such a trooper. Umm, we forgot the adapters for the European outlets. So we got to Amsterdam and I was like, we have to charge Leona's tablet so she can watch Dino Ranch. And then the tablet died and I said, oh my God, duty free shop is out. They're sold out of the adapters. It was like every little stupid thing. Umm, but all that said, she did great. It was really fun.
Em Schulz: I... The idea, and this is... This sounds like me whining about what it would be like to have a child, but it's supposed to be a compliment to you as a parent because I... I... The idea of just packing enough diapers to go out of the country for several days, weeks, I don't know. [chuckle] I... That alone, I'm like, that's its own suitcase. I don't wanna lug it. I can't do this. I like that...
Christine Schiefer: It was a lot. I was...
Em Schulz: How many diapers do you pack for something like that?
Christine Schiefer: I don't know. I mean... But to be fair, there's diapers everywhere. So like, you know. We...
Em Schulz: But that thought alone would over... I can't... I can't even figure out how many shirts I need to pack to go somewhere. I can't imagine packing for another person and they have so many more needs than me. Oh my God. Like I... Brava. Just, well done.
Christine Schiefer: Well tha... Well thank you. It is... It is a lot. And hats off to people who tra... Like my mom used to travel solo with us as a single mom to Europe.
Em Schulz: Two kids?
Christine Schiefer: Fuck that! And I'm like... With both of us. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And this is pre tablet days. You know? Like, she... Like, I don't know.
Em Schulz: [laughter] Pre Dino Ranch.
Christine Schiefer: Pre Dino Ranch. Can you even imagine? So it was just like, uh, a hat's off to you. And I am very well aware that... Like, I had... I mean, Leona had both sets of grandparents there. Like Blaise's grandparents... I'm sorry. Blaise's parents were there. My mom and stepdad were there. And then we visited my dad in Austria. So like at all times there were multiple grandparents and my brother went... You know, so it was like, there were plenty of people around to help. So that was part of why it was manageable. Umm, but...
Em Schulz: How long of a flight is it to all the way over there?
Christine Schiefer: I think it was like seven and a half, eight hours.
Em Schulz: Oh, that's not as bad as I was imagining. It's...
Christine Schiefer: No. So it was like, uh...
Em Schulz: It was like flying to LA.
Christine Schiefer: No, LA's like about four.
Em Schulz: From where you are?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. It's three hour, 45 minute, I think. Exactly.
Em Schulz: What?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Dude.
Em Schulz: That's crazy. To... To Richmond or DC it's like a... It's like a six hour flight.
Christine Schiefer: Well, to... For me, DC is about an hour and a half? An hour.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: So maybe that's why. I don't know.
Em Schulz: I don't know. I don't know. Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Hmm.
Em Schulz: Anyway, is... This is the least interesting conversation you would wanna listen to.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, anyway. Uh, I just loved my time there. It's been a long time since I was able to go to... Uh, to Europe. So it was nice to be there. And I drank a lot of beer and, umm, I had a great time. So, uh, I'm back and I'm ready to get back into the swing of things. If Saturn will ever give it a rest.
Em Schulz: She won't.
Christine Schiefer: She won't.
Em Schulz: She's an evil, evil dirty rat.
Christine Schiefer: She knows what she's doing.
Em Schulz: Speaking of dirty rats, this is your weekly reminder to drink you thirsty, dirty little rats.
Christine Schiefer: I'm drinking some coffee with a pumpkin in it.
Em Schulz: I am going to [soda can cracks open] crack into it.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, we're doing that again. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: With my beveragino a San Pellegrino. Uh...
Christine Schiefer: Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Em Schulz: It's our favorite combined flavor.
Christine Schiefer: Those are my favorite, Em.
Em Schulz: I bought orange.
Christine Schiefer: I love orange.
Em Schulz: They're also my favorite. I, umm... We just bought like, our first like, multi-pack of these. I feel like I've only ever bought them as like... You've like walk past them in the store and there's like the individual cans.
Christine Schiefer: Ohh. I buy the boxes of them.
Em Schulz: This is my first time having multiple at my leisure. 'Cause usually I see in the fridge and I'm like, "I'm gonna save that as a little treat when I do something good." But now I have so many, I just can just drink it whenever I want. Love the freedom.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. You can.
Em Schulz: Okay. Well, let's tell a story?
Christine Schiefer: I guess. How does this work? I forgot.
Em Schulz: This is... Let's see, what's my topic?
[chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: We don't even know.
Em Schulz: Oh, Yeah, I... I did know it. And then I went to bed and then I woke up and I forgot it.
[chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: Oh, okay. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Umm, Okay. So this is, uh, another one of those. I don't know what to call them. In my mind, I call them amalgamation stories.
Christine Schiefer: What a word.
Em Schulz: Because... Because, uh, I... I prefer the stories where I've got like a beginning, middle, and end and like, these are the ghosts and this is how the house, you know, got haunted. But there's some places where it's just really like, there's a lot of ghosts. And so it becomes one of those. I'm just kind of spitting out random bullets.
Christine Schiefer: Like a smorgasbord.
Em Schulz: Smorgas... An amalgamation actually. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: I'm so sorry. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Anyway, here's your, uh, smorgasbord of ghost stories in Yosemite.
Christine Schiefer: Yosemite?
Em Schulz: National Park.
Christine Schiefer: Whoa. I didn't know there were ghosts in... In there.
Em Schulz: Oh, okay. I... There was... I was like, do I have to tell you what Yosemite is?
Christine Schiefer: No, I'm sorry. It took me a minute. I was like, in Yosemite and then I thought you were gonna say like, hotel or something.
Em Schulz: Like Sam.
Christine Schiefer: Sam. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Yosemite Sam?
Christine Schiefer: I bet you were gonna say like, Oh it's, uh, Yosemite official hotel. I don't know.
Em Schulz: I should have said...
Christine Schiefer: The whole park.
[chuckle]
Em Schulz: I should have said Yosemite National Park as like the closer but...
Christine Schiefer: Wow. Okay. I'm... I'm... I'm now in it. I get it. I'm following.
Em Schulz: Okay. Well, yeah, so apparently there's, umm, a lot... A lot of spooky stuff going on there. I will say in advance, this is like me prefacing the fact that, uh, at a lot of national parks, any of the spooky stories end up having some sort of vague indigenous roots.
Christine Schiefer: Hmm-mm.
Em Schulz: And a lot of times that maybe they're true, but also I don't totally love the idea of me a White person parroting like alleged curses.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: You know, like, I don't like that. So I...
Christine Schiefer: Especially 'cause a lot of times... I mean, it's hard to like put into words, but I know exactly what you're saying. And I feel like the way I've heard it best explained was on Lore podcast once Aaron Mahnke said something like, uh, you know, it is kind of a cheap cop out to just blame any sort of...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Paranormal, you know... And again, I'm... Now I'm just trying to reiterate what he said. But he basically said it in a really like, umm, just a very, uh, poignant way of like...
Em Schulz: Eloquent way.
Christine Schiefer: Eloquent. Yeah. Very eloquent way of just saying, you know, like, it... It just is a easy cop out. And it also puts such a bad spin on something that like... It's like fear mongering almost, you know what I mean? Like to... To say it's.
Em Schulz: Well just emb... Emboldens, like othering them and... Or like.
Christine Schiefer: Yes. Exactly. Exactly.
Em Schulz: Es... Especially, I mean, with how... And this isn't like new information, I don't think I'm like giving like a particularly.
Christine Schiefer: No, no, but it's...
Em Schulz: Original. PSA here, but like... Just like how in times where I've covered, umm, burial grounds or even haunted houses, and they claim that there was some sort of, you know, indigenous tribe that lived there and they curse the land or something. It just... It's always gives me a weird feeling to talk about it.
Christine Schiefer: And it... It... It turns out it's like, oh, they're the... They're the bad guy. They're the enemy. It's like, that's...
Em Schulz: Also that they're... They're spooky and they're eerie and they're taboo. Like, it's just... It really paints a really bad...
Christine Schiefer: 100%. Yes.
Em Schulz: Just... It just paints additional negativity on like...
Christine Schiefer: I like how you said it... Like it...
Em Schulz: A group that's already suffering. So.
Christine Schiefer: Like. Right. Exactly. That... That's the last thing they need. And I like the way you put it of like, it emboldens people. I didn't know you were so eloquent. Emboldens people to...
Em Schulz: Amalgamation.
Christine Schiefer: Continue...
Em Schulz: Embolden...
Christine Schiefer: Othering them.
Em Schulz: Beveragino, San Pellegrino.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Okay. All right. Calm down now.
Em Schulz: That one sounds like a little... That one sounds like an actual curse. So.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: That one. Now I feel like you're cursing me 100%. Yeah.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: No, but, uh, just as I'm telling these stories, like I'm not trying to perpetuate anything. I just... If I'm gonna give you the facts, I just want you...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: To also know like where the lore is coming from.
Christine Schiefer: That's great.
Em Schulz: Umm, okay, so Yosemite National Park, this is where I also wanna mention that this was once and still is, uh, an ancestral homeland to the Southern Sierra, uh, Miwuk Nation.
Christine Schiefer: Mm.
Em Schulz: Umm, they still exist today and in 1851, can you guess what happens to them?
Christine Schiefer: No.
Em Schulz: They're forced out of their home.
Christine Schiefer: Something great. Not...
Em Schulz: They're forced out of their home.
Christine Schiefer: Fucking horrible.
Em Schulz: And many of... Here's like the extra, like weird kick in the pants where I feel like this was like, supposed to be like a... I don't know, some sort of like perk to it. I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: Like a redeeming?
Em Schulz: Uh... Yeah. Some... Some sort of like...
Christine Schiefer: Or a bright side?
Em Schulz: We're kicking you out, but, and it's like not even really totally worth it, I guess.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: Umm, so they were forced out their homeland and many of the original indigenous names of the area were kept. So, you know, there's like a lot of canyons or whatever.
Christine Schiefer: So they're like, you can't live here, but we'll name it after you. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Exactly. Exactly.
Christine Schiefer: Great...
Em Schulz: It's like... Like, that's just a big fuck you.
Christine Schiefer: Super.
Em Schulz: Umm, and the one name that they did not keep was Ahwahnee, which is the name of the valley that became Yosemite.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: So they... They renamed Yosemite.
Christine Schiefer: After Sam...
Em Schulz: But let everything.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I get it now.
Em Schulz: Uncle Sam, you know?
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I'm sorry. Yeah. Uncle Sam indeed. Womp womp.
Em Schulz: Yeah. So they dubbed it Yosemite, it used to be, uh, Ahwahnee. A-H-W-A-H-N-E-E.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: And it was then original name of the area. So Yosemite, here's an additional kick in the pants on top of the other kick in the pants.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: Yosemite is a word that is like a corrupted European word for grizzly bears, which is what they called people in the indigenous tribes.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, fucking hell. Okay. Wow...
Em Schulz: Not like, 'cause there were grizzly bears. God forbid.
Christine Schiefer: I... That's what I thought was gonna happen, but it was so much worse than that.
Em Schulz: They could've also, like... They could've just never... They could just said, oh, for the grizzly bears, and then just like, not fucking added onto that what they had...
Christine Schiefer: Like why even, right? Yeah.
Em Schulz: Man, I'm just... I'm just so sorry. Umm, after that people moved into the valley, uh, I'm sorry. White people moved into the valley.
Christine Schiefer: [laughter] Well, people... People discovered it, you mean?
Em Schulz: Yeah. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Sorry. I'm like... I'm telling you, Saturn is making me real, feel...
Em Schulz: I like how it's...
Christine Schiefer: Real catty. Today.
Em Schulz: This is where like Blaise would roll his eyes because he is like, "it's not Saturn, it's your Zoloft." Like it's... [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] You... Uh, are jet lagged in taking your Zoloft at the wrong time of day. Christine, that's literally all it is. [laughter]
Em Schulz: So, uh, yeah. So that by... By the way, like, Yosemite being like... Like a clunky version of grizzly bear, which they used as a slur, like makes me not wanna...
Christine Schiefer: That's disturbing.
Em Schulz: Call it Yosemite? Like...
Christine Schiefer: No, that's disturbing. I didn't know that.
Em Schulz: Umm, after that, so white people move into the valley and, uh, they move basically into the Sierra Nevadas for gold and tourism becomes this huge industry. So by the early 1900s, uh, hotels are making pretty good money in the area. And in 1927, umm, a hotel opens there, which got to love another kick in the pants. The hotel is called the Ahwahnee Hotel.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: So they'll call the ho... The hotel ran by White people probably...
Christine Schiefer: If... If they can make money off of it. Right?
Em Schulz: I'm assuming White people owned it. 'Cause it just feels like an extra mean thing to do. Maybe indigenous people opened it and this was like an homage. I don't know the situation, I don't know the history of the name, but it just feels like a, Hmm. We could call the hotel that, but not the actual fucking area that?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I get it.
Em Schulz: Fun fact. The interior of this hotel is allegedly the inspiration for the Overlook Hotel in The Shining.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp] No way.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm. And I...
Christine Schiefer: Cool.
Em Schulz: Especially like that because the... The Overlook Hotel was haunted and so was this hotel.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, there we go.
Em Schulz: So some of the ghosts in this hotel are, uh, a former manager of the hotel named Mary Curry Tresidder. Umm, she was a manager who lived on the sixth floor. I like that one of her perks was just like, living in her own hotel.
Christine Schiefer: I love it.
Em Schulz: Umm, I actually really do like that because if you... It's kinda like being of the people. It's like, I know what it's like to live here. It's...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. It's like a undercover boss.
Em Schulz: Yeah, It's exactly... She was the original undercover boss, I guess.
Christine Schiefer: She's like, "You're not dusting the blinds well enough."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And I can see it...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: With my own eyes.
Em Schulz: It's like your blinds... Our blinds look like Christine's shelf where dust is dangling off our fingers.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Oh no. Just hanging off of it. That's part of the mystique, you know?
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It's part of it.
Em Schulz: So Mary, uh, she lived on the sixth floor and when she died, her... The space that she lived in ends up becoming several guest rooms. So I guess she maybe had like the biggest room for it to become multiple rooms.
Christine Schiefer: Good for her.
Em Schulz: Umm, she's still known to check on the guests, which makes me sad that even in the afterlife, I feel like they're trying to make it like, "Oh, she just loved being here so much." But also like, maybe she's stuck in some eternal work hell, you know?
Christine Schiefer: I... You know, and I feel like you, you tell those stories a lot where it's like, people who worked at a bar and now they're still serving drinks and we're... And people are always like, Aw. And it's like, no, that's terrible! They're working.
Em Schulz: The only job I can imagine is fulfilling, umm...
Christine Schiefer: In forever?
Em Schulz: Even... Yeah, forever is being a podcaster it's like just...
Christine Schiefer: I mean, literally.
Em Schulz: It's just getting to hang out with your best friend.
Christine Schiefer: And talk.
Em Schulz: That's...
Christine Schiefer: And even that would get old after [laughter] 500,000 years.
Em Schulz: Even that's... I'd still only haunt you like once a week, just like we do right now.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, only right. A limited amount of time for sure, yeah.
Em Schulz: But I can't imagine like a physical labor or like a constantly being worried about other people.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, so much work.
Em Schulz: Ooh, you're supposed to rest from that now, but not her, she's still chugging.
Christine Schiefer: No, not a break.
Em Schulz: So she'll... She'll check on guests, she cleans up after them especially if you're on the sixth floor, a lot of people will wake up to their clothes folded and their rooms tidied, which feels like such a fuck you.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: It's like, I just couldn't... I couldn't wait for you to leave because this was so...
Christine Schiefer: It's like those... Yes, it's like those tropes. Oh, I almost had a different... But yes, I now see what you're saying. Like, oh, like, okay, let's wrap it up. To me it's like that trope of like your mother-in-law visiting, and to be clear, I don't have the situation, thank God. But like your mother-in-law visiting and like cleaning up her way, you know, 'cause like your way isn't good enough like... Oh...
Em Schulz: Yeah, yeah. And like she can't get it off her mind, like she's Monica Geller-ing. Like, she's just very...
Christine Schiefer: Yes, she's like, "Oh, I'm sorry, I noticed that there was a bit of a mess so I handled it for you," you know, that kind of thing is the vibe I get from somebody else coming into my room and folding my clothes.
Em Schulz: In that world, Allison is so lucky because [laughter] it's like if you don't mop...
Christine Schiefer: If you don't clean her shit. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Well, I was gonna say if like we're doing the in-law trope of like someone coming and cleaning for you...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, right.
Em Schulz: Allison does not have to worry about that with my mother because my mom like barely has any vision left.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, God.
Em Schulz: And so... Well, it's... It's a normal fact in our family.
Christine Schiefer: I didn't know that.
Em Schulz: But she really... She has only like maybe 20% of her vision, 10% of her vision.
Christine Schiefer: What? I just saw her, I had no idea.
Em Schulz: She makes it look easy apparently I don't know. She...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: But she's always... She... And she really... I, uh, I feel like we forget a lot that she like really can't see all that well. She doesn't have her, umm, peripheral vision or her depth perception. So she's just kind of walking around with a third of her vision.
Christine Schiefer: Cool.
Em Schulz: Umm. Cool. But it's always worked out as a child because like if things were messy, she never noticed, it was really... It worked out very well.
Christine Schiefer: She couldn't even see the dust hanging off my fingers.
Em Schulz: That shit.
Christine Schiefer: Meanwhile, my mom walks around and goes like, "Umm, the hell is that?" And I'm like, "What?" She's like, "That giant stain and of purple on the floor." And I'm like, "Hasn't that always been there?" And she's like, "It's all wet." And I'm like, "Oh, it must be juice."
Em Schulz: You know what's wild though is for a long time my mom had like heightened senses but now she also needs like hearing aids. So like it's getting easier to trick her, you know? [laughter] It's getting easier.
Christine Schiefer: That's just great, I'm sure she'll love to hear that. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Oh no, it's... It's become a bit of a running thing in the family.
Christine Schiefer: Excellent.
Em Schulz: But she's... She's, umm... She's got like a real bloodhound like nose though which it's... It's scary, what she can smell.
Christine Schiefer: That is actually frightening.
Em Schulz: It's crazy. I'm like... I'm like, blown away by her nose every time. But, uh, with her eyesight though, it was always like... Even like cleaning up the kitchen like it was a very lax life that I lived because no one was ever... [laughter] As... If you told her it was clean over there, she doesn't have her peripheral vision, she'd just go, "Oh, it's clean, it's great."
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, you know I was...
Em Schulz: It worked out very well.
Christine Schiefer: It was also lax in my world 'cause my mom just cleaned everything and then...
Em Schulz: Oh yeah, that's another good way to look it.
Christine Schiefer: I became an adult and I went, "Wait, I don't wanna do it and no one else is gonna do it." [laughter]
Em Schulz: Well, it also be... Well it's also like the opposite would happen too where if I actually did clean, she wouldn't even notice, so it didn't even feel like worth it.
Christine Schiefer: True. So what's point?
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: You're a hundred percent right. What's the fucking point?
Em Schulz: I was... I just spent like multiple weeks with her and I... Now that I'm constantly in my like I've got a clean zone...
Christine Schiefer: Yep.
Em Schulz: I would clean and then she'd come home and just like not even notice. And I was like, "Well this isn't worth it, so I'm just not gonna do it."
Christine Schiefer: No, fuck me then I guess. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Umm, no. So it's, uh, I wonder... I wonder if she was in this hotel, if someone was folding up her clothes, if she'd even notice, she'd be like, "Oh," I don't know, she also...
Christine Schiefer: I know, the lady would be like, "How dare you? I put a lot of work into this."
Em Schulz: I know. Yeah, no, but, uh, in... In the trope of an in-law, Allison's got it made in the shade 'cause we can just tell my mom the place is clean, she's like...
Christine Schiefer: Fuck yeah.
Em Schulz: Excellent. You have to clean this place for a change.
Christine Schiefer: Just put a bunch of Febreze since she can smell so well. Just spray Febreze everywhere.
Em Schulz: Honestly, the only thing you have to do is take out the trash.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, there you go.
Em Schulz: She's good. She's good, she's set.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: It's perfect. Umm, anyway, so this person would be... This ghost would be really disappointed if my mom were in the room and didn't appreciate what she's doing for her.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: But other people have noticed that all their stuff is like moved around or that their clothes are hung and that things just look a little neater than they left it. Umm, on top of that, she's also seen walking through the halls, which is like kind of its own usual ghosty thing, just walking through halls. But she opens doors, she flickers lights. Does she... I think it's like they say that she's just checking in on guests, which makes me think she also peeks around doors, which freaks me out.
Christine Schiefer: Nope.
Em Schulz: Umm, and in the 1960s... Oh, so we're done with her apparently.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, my.
Em Schulz: This is part of the amalga... This is part of the amalgamation situation. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I see. This smorgasbord is ha... In action, okay.
Em Schulz: It's like there's no good flow to it. I'm just like, "Oop and that bullet's over, next." [laughter] So in the 1960s, JFK stayed here apparently.
Christine Schiefer: Sure.
Em Schulz: And he had back pain so he requested a rocking chair. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: That's what... I feel like nowadays people are like, "I request painkillers and a massage, but I guess a rocking chair."
Em Schulz: Can you imagine at a hotel... I don't... Could you even request a rocking chair anymore?
Christine Schiefer: If you're the president probably.
Em Schulz: That's true.
Christine Schiefer: But I don't know.
Em Schulz: Or we could just pull a Christine and just like Instacart Walmart a rocking chair.
Christine Schiefer: I will find a rocking chair and I will not have to speak to a soul, which is my superpower. If I can avoid talking to any human souls, I... I can still get you what you need. A rocking chair? I'm on it.
Em Schulz: There's nothing Christine loves more than getting like settled after a flight and doing a Target delivery.
Christine Schiefer: Just the best. Just fucking go for it.
Em Schulz: And then also a Drizzly drop off.
Christine Schiefer: Of course. All si... And then they all show up at the same time and I'm like, "Oh, it's all for me." And they're like, "Umm, are you okay?" And I'm like, "No, thank you, bye."
Em Schulz: Christine has... I don't think there's ever been a time you've come to Los Angeles and didn't have both a Target and Drizzly order already prepared. [laughter] You're just waiting to press order when you get...
Christine Schiefer: I do it on the plane. Yeah, I do it on the plane. [laughter] It's only four hours as you know now.
Em Schulz: Uh, well... Yeah, apparently. So, in the 1960s, JFK requested a rocking chair when he stayed at this hotel and once he left, the chair was removed from the room but apparently people still hear a rocking chair.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp]
Em Schulz: And one will just straight up appear and vanish at random times. Now that would be a fun trick on my mom. I'd be like, "Oh, where's the rocking chair?"
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: That's mean.
Em Schulz: Uh, no, but like, apparently just shows up...
Christine Schiefer: That's...
Em Schulz: And then...
Christine Schiefer: So weird. So it's like... Do you think it's 'cause JFK was in it? Like, I don't understand why.
Em Schulz: I don't know. I have...
Christine Schiefer: It's so strange to me, like why?
Em Schulz: A lot of... Oh, there's some stories that say that they think JFK is like coming back, which I... Okay. I've never loved a hotel enough where I'm like in the afterlife I'm definitely gonna come there...
Christine Schiefer: Especially if you're pain while you're there. Right? Like if his back was hurting.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Well they say...
Christine Schiefer: I'm sorry, but I don't think a rocking chair fixed it.
Em Schulz: They say either he...
Christine Schiefer: No offense.
Em Schulz: Umm, they say either he, uh, comes back, or... This is my personal favorite, is that some other ghost saw him in a rocking chair and like saw that that was like something, I guess he could now do...
Christine Schiefer: An option, an upgrade. [laughter]
Em Schulz: So now he... He haunts with his own rocking chair. Apparently I don't.
Christine Schiefer: What? Okay. [laughter] He's like, I'll bring my B-Y-O-R-C.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: He's like, "I'm just gonna bring my own rocking chair."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I'm gonna do that to the next hotel we go to. Just like, "Oh, I brought my own rocking chair." Don't mind me.
Em Schulz: If... Honestly, in today's world, there's nothing I love more than like smart tech and like smart gear, like tech gear.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: And a lot of shit is like collapsible. If they could make a collapsible rocking chair.
Christine Schiefer: Ah-huh.
Em Schulz: I would eat that shit up. I would travel with one every day.
Christine Schiefer: I know you would. And now I'm worried that it exists and someone's gonna tag you in it. And now we're gonna have to add it to our fucking luggage list. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Can you imagine if there was a collapsible giant Adirondack chair?
Christine Schiefer: No. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Can you imagine?
Christine Schiefer: I kind of think they are collapsible, right? Like, isn't that part of the...
Em Schulz: No well, if you take the nails out, they collapse pretty good.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, okay. I thought some of them fold up.
Em Schulz: No, not that I know of.
Christine Schiefer: I mean, I could be wrong.
Em Schulz: I think they... Oh, I know what you're saying. I think they... They do fold up, but they're still so wonky and like clunky.
Christine Schiefer: They're still very bulky.
Em Schulz: And big.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: I'm thinking like you like lift up a ha... Like there's like an arm piece or something and then all of it just kinda like folds into a perfect little bundle.
Christine Schiefer: Uh, like my travel stroller where you hit one button and it like, broop. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Oh. I'm so glad you actually have that. I've been wanting to ask you 'cause it's all over my algorithm. 'Cause I...
Christine Schiefer: Which one?
Em Schulz: The collapsible troller.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, there's a lot of them. I don't know which one.
Em Schulz: There is? Oh, there's only one...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: That keeps popping up and it blows my mind every time. I don't know if it's yours or not.
Christine Schiefer: Ooh, can you send it to me? [laughter]
Em Schulz: Yeah. It's really tiny. It's like it ends up being like this big.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no, that is not what I have for sure.
Em Schulz: Oh, oh, so mine's better. Okay, got it. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Your stroller is better than mine. What else is new?
Em Schulz: So anyway, apparently there's a ghost who's just like, ran with this... And theoretically its ran with this rocking chair idea and it's like, that's not that bad of an idea, President JFK.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: I'm gonna do that now. So people just see it, hear it, and there's a haunted rocking chair.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. I mean, it is spooky.
Em Schulz: Uh, the next thing, next bullet is in 1857, there was, uh, a park ranger named Galen Clark, and he was on a hike when he heard a wailing crying and he said it sounded like a lost puppy.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp] Oh no.
Em Schulz: He ends up running into a group of indigenous people who were hunting and asked if they lost one of their hunting dogs. Umm, and they apparently told Galen, "Oh, that's not one of our dogs. That's actually the spirit of a little boy that drowned nearby. And people still hear him crying."
Christine Schiefer: [gasp] Ooh.
Em Schulz: And but...
Christine Schiefer: Oh. Don't worry about that. It's not our dog. It's something much more sinister.
Em Schulz: It's actually much worse. Don't you wish it was one of our dogs?
Christine Schiefer: It's actually upsetting. Don't you wish my dog was lost? Oh my God.
Em Schulz: Umm, and apparently people will hear this wailing out in the woods by themselves.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, that's horrible.
Em Schulz: But if you try to get in the water to save somebody, then apparently you'll get pulled under.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp]
Em Schulz: And you become one of the ghosts that haunts the area.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no.
Em Schulz: Umm. Also this was in 1857. I wonder if they knew about like whirlpools and riptides and shit. Like maybe it's not a ghost of a little boy. Maybe you just get yanked thunder.
Christine Schiefer: Ohh.
Em Schulz: I don't know. Maybe it's the little boy, we'll fucking find out.
Christine Schiefer: They didn't know about riptides [laughter] They were just like, it's a ghost. [laughter]
Em Schulz: I don't know. Or maybe it's part of like, really like... It's like important lore. I don't know what the... I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: I get you.
Em Schulz: All the importance of it, but in my mind, I feel like today someone could just say like, "Oh, dangerous waters."
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: And...
Christine Schiefer: Right, right, right. Yeah, I understand what you're saying.
Em Schulz: If I heard Lost puppy, I wouldn't be consoled to then hear, nope. Dead boy. Like so.
Christine Schiefer: No, certainly not.
Em Schulz: I'd just be like, that's just the sound of the water. Ignore it.
Christine Schiefer: It's like literally worst case scenario.
Em Schulz: Anyway, uh, today that spirit is still known ever since the 1850s or whatever. It's still known as the crying ghost of Grouse Lake.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: And people still hear him.
Christine Schiefer: That's sad.
Em Schulz: Umm, also in Yosemite is, uh, Tenaya Canyon, Tenaya or Tenaya, I think it's Tenaya. Umm, and it's also known as the Bermuda Triangle of Yosemite.
Christine Schiefer: What?
Em Schulz: Which I've never covered the Bermuda Triangle, but I do have notes that I'm building for that.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp]
Em Schulz: So I'd like to talk about that soon.
Christine Schiefer: You do?
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Now that I'm excited for.
Em Schulz: Uh, it's called the Bermuda Triangle of Yosemite because that location is known for its many helicopter rescues, disappearances and fatalities.
Christine Schiefer: Oh shit.
Em Schulz: And exploring this canyon is heavily discouraged.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp]
Em Schulz: It's so dangerous because the terrain has waterfalls that you have to climb. Mandatory swims, mountains you repel down and ice like slippery cliffs.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. This doesn't seem much like Bermuda Triangle, more just like a very dangerous area. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Yeah. It just seems like... Yeah. Bermuda Triangle. I feel like part of that is there's a mystery too.
Christine Schiefer: It's myster...
Em Schulz: But there's a mystery here...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, exactly. Like this is like, uh, I know why people go missing here.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Umm, others say the ca... The canyon is very dangerous because again, it is allegedly cursed, uh, by, uh, the native people who lived here. Uh.
Christine Schiefer: Sure, sure, sure.
Em Schulz: Allegedly.
Christine Schiefer: Sure.
Em Schulz: The chief watched his son be murdered and then the chief, umm, like cursed the murderer.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: But then that doesn't make sense because if he only cursed the murderer and not the land, then why would this land still be problematic?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. It doesn't quite track.
Em Schulz: So. Anyway, true or not, this curse has become like classic urban lore for climbers and backpackers. And they'll say like, oh, well my hike didn't go well, but it... It's because of the curse. Not like, 'cause you're like under prepared or like... [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Because I have to climb a waterfall has nothing to do with that.
Em Schulz: Right. Umm, another indigenous curse here is said to be of Pohono who is a spirit who will lure hikers to the edges of cliffs and push them over.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp] Oh no.
Em Schulz: Pohono is said to lure you with a quote, "hypnotic rainbow in the mist." And those who fall end up haunting the cliffs.
Christine Schiefer: Uh-oh. I was gonna say, what could possibly drag you to a cliff? And then I was like, Ooh, A rainbow [laughter]
Em Schulz: That's what I thought. I was like hypnotic rainbow in the mist. That sounds...
Christine Schiefer: Fuck yes.
Em Schulz: And I've seen them before and they are luring...
Christine Schiefer: Em and I are screwed. [laughter] We'll walk right off that cliff.
Em Schulz: Totally. There are also plenty of ghost stories on the general campsites. So people... People will hear like howling and footsteps and screams and wails at night.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: Some campsites have their own legends, umm, including campsite number six where someone allegedly died and now if you look out of your tent in the middle of the night, you'll see them peek... Peeking at you from behind the trees.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, that's bad.
Em Schulz: In 1965, another hotel opened, uh, for Yosemite tou... Tourists and it was called Wawona Hotel.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: The Wawona Hotel is known specifically in the... When it comes to the spooky stories, I don't know much about the Wawona hotel except for the fact that it has this suite called the Moore Cottage.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: So in the 1920s, a pilot actually crashed a small plane near the hotel.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp]
Em Schulz: And they brought him in and let him stay in the Moore Cottage until a doctor got there. But he ended up dying from his injuries.
Christine Schiefer: Oh shit. Oh no.
Em Schulz: Today people still see a pilot wandering around Moore cottage and they see him in like full flight garb.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp]
Em Schulz: So he is in like his scarf and helmet and goggles.
Christine Schiefer: That's creepy.
Em Schulz: And some say he might be a residual spirit because he doesn't actually acknowledge anyone or anything. He just appears and vanishes. But he was also like incredibly injured when... When he was there. So why is he just walking around, umm?
Christine Schiefer: Well, but so don't they say that that like ghosts sometimes come back in like a more healthy form.
Em Schulz: Maybe. Another theory...
Christine Schiefer: But also I fear that's usually when people are like getting visitations and stuff.
Em Schulz: Right. Another theory is that, umm, his spirit has healed but he's confused about where he is so he actually can't cross over.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. Well that's sad.
Em Schulz: Yeah. But I don't know. I'm reporting the news, man. I don't know what to tell you. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: How dare you tell me that.
Em Schulz: But no, I... I hope it's just a residual spirit of him less injured...
Christine Schiefer: Me too.
Em Schulz: Versus like him actually not being able to get anywhere, you know.
Christine Schiefer: Being lost. Yeah. That's sad.
Em Schulz: In 2018, there's a review of the hotel online that says one of the guests in Moore Cottage actually claims to have witnessed the residual haunting or reactions of the crash of the plane crash.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp] Whoa.
Em Schulz: In the middle of the night, they heard people rushing around outside of their hotel room, umm, shouting outside of the door, lights turning on by itself. Footsteps. It just sounded like a whole party was like running through the halls, freaking out.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp]
Em Schulz: And the next day the guest asked about what was happening and he found out he was the only person in the cottage that night.
Christine Schiefer: Nooo. Ew. Do you think that's why it was able to like play out 'cause it was just so empty?
Em Schulz: [gasp] Ooh.
Christine Schiefer: Do you know what I mean? They were like, okay, there's plenty of room to replay this scenario. Ooh.
Em Schulz: Ooh. I hated that Christine. That sucks.
Christine Schiefer: It gets me the shivers. Gives me shivers.
Em Schulz: I don't know. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: That sucked.
Em Schulz: Or do you think maybe it happens all the time and you just don't notice if it's...
Christine Schiefer: That's true. If there's like a lot of people around maybe. Yeah. That's fair.
Em Schulz: I like... I like to think yours. Yours seems more powerful.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Oh. In the worst way. But...
Christine Schiefer: In the worst way. For sure. For sure.
Em Schulz: The next day the guest asked about the, oh, party next door, found out they were the only guests that night. Uh, in 1985, guests in the same hotel room were watching TV when a 10 foot rug in their room levitated off the floor and floated towards them. Ooh.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp]
Em Schulz: Another time in this hotel, uh, there was one night where the manager...
Christine Schiefer: I can show you the world. [laughter] Sorry.
Em Schulz: Can you Imagine if you just hopped on it? Oop.
Christine Schiefer: I wonder what would happen.
Em Schulz: Yeah. What it... Like floated towards you to do what? Like what? Also...
Christine Schiefer: To take you on a magical ride. I don't understand.
Em Schulz: Also a 10 foot area rug wasn't being held down by anything? Like how big is this fucking hotel room?
Christine Schiefer: That's a great point. Like not even a single table leg was on it.
Em Schulz: You're right. Anyway, okay. Just money bags. That sounds great.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Fine. All right. All... All your big rugs everywhere.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I couldn't afford a 10 foot area rug. Oh my God. I've got this little dinky IKEA one. I was like, "That's too much damn money." And it's by the way, held down so it can never levitate towards me in a million years.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It cannot levitate. That is why I put furniture on my rugs just in case they float away. You know.
Em Schulz: You never know.
Christine Schiefer: You never know.
Em Schulz: Uh people have also claimed to get, uh, pictures of weird things in these hotel rooms, including one guest who allegedly captured a screaming face in her window.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, no.
Em Schulz: And one night the manager was alone in the kitchen and the fire pole station, umm, its alarm went off. And this is some sort of alarm that has to be physically activated so it doesn't just go off by itself.
Em Schulz: Ooh.
Em Schulz: Umm, and they were alone in the kitchen and this alarm goes off. So the manager goes to turn off the alarm and realizes that the pole station that had been activated was only 10 feet away from him.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp]
Em Schulz: Yeesh.
Christine Schiefer: Yeesh.
Em Schulz:Another mystery in Yosemite is of course, say it with me, the severed deer heads. Umm, and...
Christine Schiefer: Ooh.
Em Schulz: In 1998, there was a ranger who was hiking several miles from his car. Umm, and he came across a deer head that was not on the deer's body. Umm.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, no.
Em Schulz: And he realized that the deer head had been... It wasn't like, I don't know in what world this is of natural causes, but he realized very quickly it wasn't of natural causes and that the deer head had been freshly cut with some sort of blade.
Christine Schiefer: Eugh. Ooh.
Em Schulz: The Ranger has then been quoted saying, "Any type of hunting was and is illegal in Yosemite. And as I was looking around wondering what was going on, the hairs on my neck really started to stand up as I realized the body of the deer was nowhere to be found".
Christine Schiefer: Oh. Ew. It wasn't like nearby? Ugh.
Em Schulz: And there was no blood at the scene. Mm-hmm. That meant that someone had intentionally killed the deer somewhere else and then intentionally taken the head and left it right there in the middle of the trail.
Christine Schiefer: And it happened to be seen... You said he is a ranger, right?
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Yikes.
Em Schulz: So the ranger buried the head and kept walking and found another severed deer head.
Christine Schiefer: Noo.
Em Schulz: He then buried this one too, and he started to think that whoever was leaving these might be watching nearby.
Christine Schiefer: I was gonna say, you would... That would be my first thought that I was being watched.
Em Schulz: Me too, fresh blood pouring out of a deer head. He then finds a third severed head, but this one is now mainly just skull because it's decomposed over the last few weeks. So that let him know that this is happening now and was happening a few weeks ago.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Good point. Okay.
Em Schulz: The ranger tried to radio in about this to other rangers, but he didn't have a code word for severed deer heads.
Christine Schiefer: No. You don't say. [chuckles]
Em Schulz: And so he ended up being afraid that maybe someone was watching him and over...
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: Was overhearing him.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp]
Em Schulz: So he didn't wanna say anything that would startle anyone and he just said, "Never mind," and just finished his patrol and walked away and it never got figured out.
Christine Schiefer: I just picture it when you say never mind that he was trying to hint at it like taboo. You can't say certain words.
Em Schulz: No severed heads here.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. And they're like, "That's good." And he is like, "You know what? Forget it. You guys aren't picking up what I'm putting down."
Em Schulz: I feel like he probably just got frustrated. Yeah. Uh, that's why you gotta have a code word. You gotta have code words with the people that matter.
Christine Schiefer: Everything, including severed deer head.
Em Schulz: You and I actually probably need a code word. Allison and I have a few code words, but...
Christine Schiefer: I... I was gonna say we don't even have one. I feel you and I would... Would be the first culprits to have our own code word and we don't have one. Wait. Yes, we do. We do. We do. We do. Now I have to tell you the code word without telling you the code word.
Em Schulz: [chuckle] I know.
Christine Schiefer: Hang on, let me... Let me text it to you.
Em Schulz: Okay. I could... I can't even... Whatever it is, I've... It's been lost to me and I would've never even thought to say it.
Christine Schiefer: I think you would. I think that once you realize.
Em Schulz: Wait. Hang on, I'm still waiting for it to come through.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. I just sent it.
Em Schulz: It's not coming through to.
Christine Schiefer: To the group chat.
Em Schulz: I'm looking.
Em Schulz: [laughter] Okay. Yeah. You're right. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: I knew Eva remembered. Eva said, "Oh, my god. I was about to send it." Yeah. That was the one we came up while traveling 'cause we were like, "If we don't want anyone to talk to us, like each other... If we're having a crisis, if we're in a tailspin, this is the word we use."
Em Schulz: Yeah. If... If one of the three of us needs to be left alone and not spoken to. This is...
Christine Schiefer: And it's not like, not, Oh I need to fix what's going on. It's like, just don't talk... Don't come to near me. I don't think...
Em Schulz: I hasn't...
Christine Schiefer: We ever really used it.
Em Schulz: Because we're too polite.
Christine Schiefer: I think we ended up using it...
Em Schulz: We ended up using it as an over... An overall, like a catch all word for when other people were pissing us off. We would use it amongst each other.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. We used it in... Completely incorrectly from its original intention, intent.
Em Schulz: It ended up being if any of us were overwhelmed by like something going on at the venue.
Christine Schiefer: Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Which was a lot.
Em Schulz: By the way. This is not like... It was like all backstage stuff. So if anyone's like getting paranoid, you did not do anything.
Christine Schiefer: No. No. No. No. No. It was... Was either... Either like our luggage disappeared or, you know shit like that.
Em Schulz: Or people like... Like certain venues where, uh... Let's just say going on tour, we've learned quite a lot about the ways of venues and we learned that there's quite a lot of, uh, misogyny and...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. There's some, cute mishaps. Mis... Mishaps that occur.
Em Schulz: When... When three people who walk in and sound very feminine are the only three that they can speak to, uh, we found out that a lot of people don't like to take orders from...
Christine Schiefer: Sometimes, things go wrong.
Em Schulz: Women or feminine presenting people. Uh...
Christine Schiefer: I know it's hard to believe.
Em Schulz: Anyway, that's when we would start using that code... That code a lot so they didn't know what we were talking about, but we'd warn each other. Eva would come up to us and just give us the code and that's how we knew that it was gonna be a bumpy ride.
Christine Schiefer: Red alert. Red alert.
Em Schulz: Okay. So anyway, where were we? Severed heads.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: So apparently the, uh... He just left and then it never got solved. I don't know. That makes me think that no one was watching because they definitely watched you pick up multiple severed heads and then like oddly not mention it on a radio. You know?
Christine Schiefer: I would think so. Yeah. Unless he's covering for himself and he did it, I don't know. But that doesn't really make sense either.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm. Now that's the true crime brain of Christine Schiefer.
Christine Schiefer: I'm just saying, you know, he who smelt it, dealt it and that applies...
Em Schulz: How convenient.
Christine Schiefer: To severed deer heads.
Em Schulz: How convenient that he'd be the one to find these heads.
Christine Schiefer: Extremely convenient.
Em Schulz: So fun fact, Yosemite is also where people saw the second sighting of the Fresno crawlers... Nightcrawlers.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp] That's right. I remember the video.
Em Schulz: So I actually have the link for you so you can rewatch it.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, this video creeps me the F out dude.
Em Schulz: It creeps me out too. I think I forgot how creepy it is.
Christine Schiefer: It's incredibly unsettling.
Em Schulz: Because... It actually like, does not make fucking sense. Like...
Christine Schiefer: No. It's like really uncomfy to watch, like really uncomfy.
Em Schulz: I just sent it to you.
Christine Schiefer: It's okay, I'm gonna go watch it.
Em Schulz: It's... And we'll post it on our Instagram for people but, umm, it just makes no goddamn sense.
Christine Schiefer: I'm gonna mute it, and watch it... It's so unsettlingly creepy.
Em Schulz: So for those of you who are...
Christine Schiefer: And it's kind of smooth.
Em Schulz: Yeah. It's...
Christine Schiefer: Like glides. And then there's another one I forgot about the other one.
Em Schulz: It feels like it has to be like drunk people wearing sheets or something. Like it looks...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: A little a drunken stroll. But...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. It's almost like too intentional with its legs. Like...
Em Schulz: Yeah. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Here I go. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Well, so for those of you who are not on YouTube or on your Instagram right now...
Christine Schiefer: Oh. I hate it. I hate it.
Em Schulz: Umm, basically in 2011, after the first sighting, uh, in Fresno of the Fresno Nightcrawlers in 2011, the second sighting was when a couple aimed their security cards at their... Uh, their security camera at their driveway to monitor potential break-ins, and they caught in their yard, these two Fresno Nightcrawlers walking very weirdly.
Christine Schiefer: Ugh. It's so creepy.
Em Schulz: And these, uh, anyway... So that's... That's... I just wanted to mention that because we have talked about the nightcrawlers before. That was episode 277. If you wanna go listen to it.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. That was a great episode.
Em Schulz: Umm, the nightcrawlers are also some of the most beloved of the cryptids. So a lot of people say that they're just very friendly and sweet. Although there's some people who say that what you're seeing in the video of them walking like that, that's them walking slowly. And if you... And they can actually like charge at you if they wanted to.
Christine Schiefer: Why would anyone know that? I wanna ask the person who... Who explained that to be like, okay, what's your fucking, like, resume that you can tell me that? [laughter] Like how would you know that? How could you possibly know how fast they can walk? Like what do you mean you're not...
Em Schulz: Maybe that... Maybe that was a Fresno Nightcrawler in the basement, just typing it out. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Maybe because I don't understand how else anybody would know that, but I hate the thought of it.
Em Schulz: I also hate the thought of it.
Christine Schiefer: And I'm mad. I'm mad about it. So...
Em Schulz: Not... Not only does Yosemite have potentially nightcrawlers, but they also have theories about aliens and UFOs. And there... The main reason that people think there could be aliens and UFOs beyond the fact that it's like this big eerie mountain where there's caves and, you know, all that good stuff is that there are a significant amount of missing children's cases.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. Shit.
Em Schulz: And this is another thing where I'm saying like, aliens and UFOs is like maybe a more lighthearted way to try to look at that, but it's...
Christine Schiefer: Sure.
Em Schulz: Still like really intense trauma that children...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, it's horrific. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Go through. So, umm, maybe it's aliens, maybe it's something much more real. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Maybe it's us trying to make ourselves feel better by saying it's aliens. Yeah. I got you.
Em Schulz: Well, so I will say if there's a good thing to these abduction cases, uh, they all follow this really weird similar pattern where all the kids are usually hold just... You're... You're gonna be fine. Hang on. The kids are usually 18 to 24 months old that are going missing, and they disappear near huckleberry trees. But...
Christine Schiefer: What?
Em Schulz: The real wild thing is that all of the kids, or at least most of the kids are found completely unharmed.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp]
Em Schulz: But the weird part is that they're in unexplainable locations.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. I've heard about this phenomenon.
Em Schulz: It... It's very weird, like multiple, like tens of miles away from where they went missing and they have no...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. And I've heard like that they...
Em Schulz: No scratches, no dirt on them.
Christine Schiefer: They're perfectly clean and like fed. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Yeah. They're barefoot, which is weird sometimes.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Umm, one boy was found 12 miles away, but also two mountain peaks away. So like he had...
Christine Schiefer: Oh. Come on.
Em Schulz: Like, he would've had to have climbed two fucking mountain peaks to get where he was.
Christine Schiefer: Uhhh, explain that.
Em Schulz: Some of the kids have also been found thousands of feet higher in elevation, which would've required like professional climbing gear and the ability to do that.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. And I've also heard with those cases as well, it's like, uh, there's like a natural instinct for humans. Like if you're lost, there's like a very natural instinct of trying to find your way and...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: This does not follow that pattern at all. Like, they end up...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: In very weird places that don't like fit where a kid or a person would normally try and find their way back.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Just weird, weird shit. Ugh.
Em Schulz: So people have blamed aliens, like picking them up and then like five seconds later realizing they don't want their responsibility and dumping the kid back or something.
Christine Schiefer: This is a lot of work. It's true.
Em Schulz: People have also said, apparently there's a pterodactyl like cryptic that has been known to lurk around the mountain.
Christine Schiefer: What?
Em Schulz: So they think they're getting picked up and dropped by kids? Umm, or...
Christine Schiefer: And like it's just taking their shoes?
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Yeah, I guess so. Uh, people have also said, I mean that there's... Apparently Bigfoot is an option and then...
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: The most realistic besides like hikers. Oh.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Well Besides Bigfoot.
Christine Schiefer: Besides Bigfoot.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Besides actual hikers, maybe truly trying to abduct children.
Christine Schiefer: Right?
Em Schulz: Umm, they also think that it could be really big birds picking them up thinking they're prey and then they're too heavy and dropping the kid, but then that wouldn't explain why they're not dirty or crying or bloody or scratched up.
Christine Schiefer: And why they didn't say, umm, big bird picked me up.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Right. Well, to the same reasoning, a lot of people think that maybe it's bears, umm, because...
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: All of these kids are being taken by huckleberry bushes. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Ooh.
Em Schulz: But also, like most of them are being found completely unharmed. So anyway, it's very odd. It's just a really weird thing.
Christine Schiefer: It is odd. It is very odd.
Em Schulz: Speaking of Bigfoot, a lot of people have seen Bigfoot out here, or at least some sort of big hairy monster. Again, could just be bears. But one camper in Yosemite has heard heavy footsteps heading for his tent and saw what he called it a furry Goliath.
Christine Schiefer: Ooh.
Em Schulz: My favorite thing about this story is that it's like a one sentence story of like, oh, I saw what I thought was Bigfoot, and it ends with both of them screaming and running away from each other.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Wait, both of them?
Em Schulz: It's like they... It's like they, like Freaky Friday'ed or something and scared each other. Umm, there's also a creature out there called the Devil Ape or Devil Fang, but it's also been recently called the Watts Valley Wolf Ape because it's been...
Christine Schiefer: Ooh.
Em Schulz: Seen near the Watts Valley cemetery and this Wolf Ape...
Christine Schiefer: I've never heard of that.
Em Schulz: Me either. It just sounds kind of like, umm, kind of another Bigfoot where...
Christine Schiefer: Like either skunk ape type thing?
Em Schulz: Yeah. Yeah. So it's this gray-mange-haired human-ape combo hybrid kind of thing.
Christine Schiefer: Sure, sure, sure. Sure, sure.
Em Schulz: He apparently coughs and foams at the mouth. So we're thinking rabies or COVID with all the coughing that freaks me out.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: COVID. Oh no.
Em Schulz: Uh, and one time a photographer was in Yosemite and actually saw a pack of them run up to his tent, and then we don't really hear how that ended. All these stories...
Christine Schiefer: Oh no.
Em Schulz: They... You never hear how they ended. I wanna know they...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. I'm like, if this happened to me, I'd be like, you better believe I'm telling you every single fucking second of what happened.
Em Schulz: Yeah. It's like the fact that it was anti-climatic every time at the end makes me think this story isn't real.
Christine Schiefer: They're just like... Don't feel like finishing the story? Like, come on.
Em Schulz: It's like, oh, first of all, a pack of them? So there's more than one? A pack of them...
Christine Schiefer: Are you leaving us hanging? Fuck.
Em Schulz: Run up to you and then you just like went to bed. What? Okay. Umm... Another time a Wolf ape, uh, went into a one-room schoolhouse that apparently is in Yosemite, which now I need to know more about.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp] Yes, you do.
Em Schulz: And it terror...
Christine Schiefer: Imagine you are at a one-room schoolhouse and a cryptid shows up. Like I now that.
Em Schulz: I would die out of bliss, I'd be like, well...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. That'd be your dream.
Em Schulz: That's it. Now I've seen it all.
Christine Schiefer: Well, that's it.
Em Schulz: Uh...
Christine Schiefer: I peaked.
Em Schulz: So there's a one-room schoolhouse, which I need to figure out where that is. [laughter] And a Wolf Ape apparently came charging in and terrorized the students and the teacher, and the teacher like locked themselves in a closet at...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, it was during school? Oh, God.
Em Schulz: During school. No, for fun, the students and teachers hang out together at the schoolhouse.
Christine Schiefer: Well, and I thought it was like a current story.
Em Schulz: Oh, oh, oh.
Christine Schiefer: Like it's just a one-room schoolhouse that was like historic or something. I don't know.
Em Schulz: Uh, it sounds like they, like, literally were trying to put all their desks on each other... On top of each other to like try to like blockade this Wolf ape from getting in.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: Umm, again, guess what? We don't know how it ends, but I guess at least...
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God.
Em Schulz: Someone survived to tell the tale. Umm, and then the last time one was seen, it was in the 1990s, a Wolf ape was said to be drinking water out of Bass Lake. So anyway, that is just a sampling. A smorgasburg and amalgamation of the [laughter] creeptures and the spookiness. That is Yosemite National Park.
Christine Schiefer: Yo. What a fucking adventure. What a journey you just took me on.
Em Schulz: Thank you. Well, I'm about to take myself on another journey when I figure out what this schoolhouse is all about. [laughter] Umm, oh. Before we even get into your story, I gotta say, speaking of schoolhouses. Oh, that was Gio. Yes?
Christine Schiefer: Sorry.
Em Schulz: Uh, speaking of schoolhouses, I. Uh, got back in touch...
Christine Schiefer: Where's this going? [laughter]
Em Schulz: Oh, well, no... Nowhere really that special. I just wanted to... This is where the podcast becomes more of a phone call where I'm just telling you things and I don't really...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, great.
Em Schulz: I don't.
Christine Schiefer: You guys.
Em Schulz: No one really wants the update but...
Christine Schiefer: You don't want to... You don't need to listen to this part. Just pretend we're talking. It's pretend you're eavesdropping.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Just, umm, make some small discussion groups around... Amongst yourself and we'll be back in a second. [laughter] Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Talk amongst yourselves for a moment.
Em Schulz: But while I have you, Christine.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Uh, so fun fact, my... Before I went to the school I went to... And my kindergarten and my preschool were a schoolhouse. And so I recently got back in touch. Apparently there's like an alumni Facebook group of people who went to my schoolhouse.
Christine Schiefer: Like your preschool?
Em Schulz: Yeah! Like it was like...
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God.
Em Schulz: Preschool and kindergarten alumni. Umm, the group was created by actually a friend of mine.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God.
Em Schulz: And I didn't even know that. I was scrolling down to see how long this group has been around. It said like that... Like someone I know created it and I was like, I didn't even know that this was a thing.
Christine Schiefer: Why didn't they invite you? That's awkward.
Em Schulz: Oh, I know. We're fighting now. [laughter] They don't know that though. Umm, but anyway, I got back in touch with my, umm, like the... I don't know if they were the principal or whoever, but, uh, it was a married couple who ran the schoolhouse and...
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God.
Em Schulz: Their names were Mr. Rick and Ms. Vicky and.
Christine Schiefer: Stop. Not Ms. Vicky.
Em Schulz: Ms. Vicky was a peach. I love Ms. Vicky.
Christine Schiefer: How cute.
Em Schulz: And Mr... Mr. Rick and I are Facebook friends now.
Christine Schiefer: Mr. Rick. I mean, come on. That's adorable.
Em Schulz: And I literally in the group... In the alumni Facebook group, umm, I like still feel weird as like a 31-year-old person to call him anything other than Mr. Rick.
Christine Schiefer: I know right? You get that weird like, Leona's teacher, it's like Ms. Blank...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Like Ms. Kate or Ms. Whatever, and it's like, it feels so weird to say that, but it also feels weird to just say like, Kate or, you know.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: I'm like, do I... On one-on-one? Do I call you Ms. Kate? I don't know.
Em Schulz: Well, so I always... I always wanted to know like the history behind, like why we went to school in a house. Like what was it... Whose house was it? What was the story? So I was... I wrote into the Facebook group and I was like, Mr. Rick, can you tell me about the house? [laughter] Like [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Wait, that's so cute. Did he respond?
Em Schulz: Yeah, he responded. He told me all about it, but, umm... Anyway.
Christine Schiefer: Aw. Was it his house?
Em Schulz: It was not his house. It was a... A cardiologist's house. Umm, and he... It also used to...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, how the tables have turned, Em. You should go back.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I know. And it... It used to be a farm I guess, and so they ended up...
Christine Schiefer: How cool.
Em Schulz: He ended up moving away, I guess, but it used to be his house and he had his office there. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Mmm.
Em Schulz: And then I guess when his practice closed and he was like retiring, it just... They bought it and turned it into a school. But yeah, it was like a three room schoolhouse and I... Now I... And I'm starting to wonder like, is that why I'm so into schoolhouses? So anyway.
Christine Schiefer: I didn't, I... I don't wanna say I didn't know you went to, 'cause maybe I did. Maybe you mentioned it, but like, I don't remember that fact about you.
Em Schulz: I don't think I... I mean I knew like, because I'd been in the building, but I never actually like called it out loud a schoolhouse before and then I was like, interesting. Maybe that's why I like the one-room schoolhouse thing.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Makes sense.
Em Schulz: Because mine was so like... It was tiny and cozy and there was... I can still remember like each room very specifically and I'm also going through a lot of my, umm, old family pictures right now. So I've found a bunch of pictures of the schoolhouse.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: So anyway, that's what led me to looking it up online, finding the group... Facebook group.
Christine Schiefer: I love that.
Em Schulz: The end. Anyway, that was just like something wholesome before you tell us something really awful.
Christine Schiefer: Umm... Excellent. Uh, good timing. 'Cause now I have something awful to tell you. Umm...
Em Schulz: Yeah. Okay. [laughter] [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: This is the story of the Costa Concordia sinking.
Em Schulz: What the hell is that? I mean, it's a sinking.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I was gonna... I was gonna ask if you remembered it. Umm, I guess not. Uh...
Em Schulz: That implies we've talked about it before.
Christine Schiefer: No, no, no. Like if you remember it when it occurred in the news, I meant.
Em Schulz: No, no, I don't.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, so it was 2012. Umm...
Em Schulz: Oh. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: We were busy being young and stupid probably.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm. I was 20.
Christine Schiefer: So yes.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Definitely young and stupid. All right, so before I tell you this story, also, there's something I wanted to mention up top that I completely forgot, so I'm gonna throw it in here. Umm, that Megan our... Megan [laughter], our wonderful social media person, even though it really irks us to say that with a name like Megan.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, has actually made, uh, like show pages... Like a page for all our episode, like an episode guide on the website.
Em Schulz: Oh yeah.
Christine Schiefer: So like, because when you were mentioning, umm, like the episode you did on the Nightcrawlers and all that, umm, Megan like totally revamped it. Like, let me go. If you click into... Let's see. How does it work? Oh, I don't think she's even posted it yet. But if you like click in, you can see all the different, uh, like show notes and links and stuff in each episode. It's very cool. And it's something I'd always hoped to have and just thought, we'll never have time for this. Umm...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: So I'm very, very thankful for that. So if you want more information, you can, umm, go on the website and the episodes will now have like all the deets there. So...
Em Schulz: Nice.
Christine Schiefer: That being said, this is the newest one to add to the page, the Costa Concordia. So the Costa Concordia was an eight year old Italian cruise vessel sailing under Costa Cruises, which was a subsidiary of Carnival Cruises.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: And you know how well things go for these cruise companies in the news. [laughter]
Em Schulz: I have an opinion about Carnival Cruises. Yes, I do know.
Christine Schiefer: Do you? .
Em Schulz: Oh yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Why?
Em Schulz: No comment. No comment.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: You can't say I have an opinion. No comment. [laughter] I guess you can.
Em Schulz: Why?
Christine Schiefer: You just did. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Look, as I've gotten older, I am aware that... You know cruises are...
Christine Schiefer: I know nothing about cruises. Like, I've never been on one. I don't know anything. I'm totally outta the loop.
Em Schulz: Well they're... They're... I'm... I... The... The older I get the weirder I feel about them. 'Cause I know they're like definitely, like they represent a lot of not so good stuff. But at the same time, I used to be... I'm from a cruise family.
Christine Schiefer: You were a cruise fam. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Em Schulz: Umm, and I... You know... When I think about just selfishly what I enjoy, I do love a cruise.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Umm, and we were always told that Carnival was like the party one. And it was... There's some good things to it where like, if you've never done a cruise before, it's a very... This is so like uppity, but this, this is a regurgitation of what I've heard my whole life. And I was ne... Always told, don't... Don't do a Carnival Cruise. You gotta do these, these, these. But apparently Carnival Cruises are like the party cruise. And since I was always with...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, it's kinda like the...
Em Schulz: The 20, like, once you can drink, it's the cruise to go on. But I think because a lot of people who go on there are a little younger and make maybe not the best choices sometimes apparently. Umm, there's a lot of incidences on the cruises. Like they catch on fire a lot 'cause people just like... [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Oh, good.
Em Schulz: Like, it just sounds like, umm, like a house party on the water, which to some people is great, but I was always with my cruise family, AKA... A... A more shi-shi group, if you know what I'm saying.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I see.
Em Schulz: And they were... They were not interested in the Carnival Cruises. So I was always told to have an opinion about them. But...
Christine Schiefer: Oh wow.
Em Schulz: To be fair, I've never actually been on one. So for all I know, I need to like, just shut the fuck up.
Christine Schiefer: I mean, I have no idea. Like, I don't know how much you know about Beach Too Sandy, Em, but it's another podcast I do. Umm... [laughter]
Em Schulz: I was gonna say I've heard about it. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: I've heard of it. Uh, and I have this whole running gag where I found this forum called Cool Cruiser... Called cruisecritic.com. And it's all these...
Em Schulz: My mom runs that I think. [laughter],
Christine Schiefer: She might, it's all these cool cruisers. That's what like their usernames, so they're called Cool Cruisers.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: And it'll be like Ms. Vicky Cool Cruiser since 2012, you know, [laughter] And it'll be like, and it, they have a lingo. And so it'll be like my DH my dear husband. That would be Mr. Rick, obviously.
Em Schulz: Obviously.
Christine Schiefer: Uh, DH wanted to do a Carnival cru... But they always say Eek! And like my brother hates it because every [laughter], every... I'll like, read a forum and like every five minutes I'll just scream, eek. And they have like emoticons, but they don't show up on my browser. So they'll just say like, colon, like colon smiling, waving.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: You know, like colon eek. And, uh, there's sometimes people don't get it. And so they'll write like colon sits down at bar and orders a drink. [laughter] And I'm like, that's not how the emoticons work. Umm, but it's like a delightful place because it's so much fun to read their like... It... It's just chaotic in there. And so my only knowledge of cruises is from that forum, which I learned more than I ever thought I would without having to go on a cruise. Umm, for what it's worth. But... Yeah, there's a lot that goes into the... I mean, people have like countdowns for like, months, years.
Em Schulz: Oh yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Like it's intense.
Em Schulz: We're... We're in that group. We've...
Christine Schiefer: It's like a lifestyle.
Em Schulz: My... My grandma was also a... A big cruiser and we would just get told... She always knew the day. She'd be like, "Oh, 108 days left until this cruise. Oh, 97 days until this cruise." [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God.
Em Schulz: It's like a big thing. And like... So anyway.
Christine Schiefer: Was it fun though? Like for you?
Em Schulz: Oh, they're... To me, they're the... The best. I love it because I love doing... I... Well, first of all, I was also very, very fortunate that I was like the kid that got to like, just follow my parents on the luxury cruise lines with every amenity you could possibly imagine.
Christine Schiefer: Sure.
Em Schulz: It was very like, just deliciously grossly lavish. And so, uh, I just remember having a lot of really good memories as a kid of like, they have so many floors. Like, I mean, especially like... We're a Royal Caribbean cruise line family, and so they, or... If...
Christine Schiefer: Beautiful. I like that it just has the word royal in it, I don't know anything about it, but Royal. It sounds right.
Em Schulz: Well, Royal Caribbean. So I feel like these days it's kind of, I... I don't know what it is anymore, but I know that like the top one was Norwegian Cruise lines.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: And that one, I never... I never did one of those. Those were even more lavish, but that was also very like, elegant old money. And Royal Caribbean was supposed to be more for like the family experience where they had things for all ages. So they had literally like carousels. They had full...
Christine Schiefer: What the fuck?
Em Schulz: Like a whole floor looks like a circus. Like they have...
Christine Schiefer: What?
Em Schulz: Umm, they have carousels. There's a whole... Umm, they have ice skating rinks, they have rollerblading rinks, they have movie theaters, multiple movie theaters. They have like 10 pools. They have... Uh, they had one bar that wasn't like, uh... I forget what the bar was called. It's called like the Sky Deck or something, but it's a bar that's an elevator. So they have this massive elevator and put a bar in it so you can go up and down and it's glass walls so you can see all the floors of the cruise as you're... I mean, it's like... It's like... I don't know it... It way too, shi-shi. But as like a 5-year-old, it was like a magical fairyland. It was like, I didn't even know things like this existed.
Christine Schiefer: Well, you know, my dad...
Em Schulz: They have like mini golf on the roof, everything. Basketball courts...
Christine Schiefer: Fuck.
Em Schulz: Tennis courts.
Christine Schiefer: It does explain a lot about you because sometimes you'll... No, I'm serious.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Like... And I don't mean that in a bad way at all. I just mean sometimes you'll be like so excited about something kind of random. And I'm like, what? And then I'm like, oh. 'Cause it'll be like, oh, there's mini golf on the roof. And, Em will be be like, "That's the most amazing thing I've ever heard."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And I'm like, okay, this is making a lot of sense now that you had these experiences. And it's like reminiscent of those like family vacations and stuff.
Em Schulz: Yeah. It was also like I... 'Cause I loved water stuff, but I hate the beach, so...
Christine Schiefer: Right. Oh, well there you go.
Em Schulz: There was a way to be on the water and like go...
Christine Schiefer: It's like a water park. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Literally. No...
Christine Schiefer: It has chlorine in it. So don't worry. [laughter]
Em Schulz: You... I'm... I'm not kidding. A lot of the Royal Caribbeans on like the top deck now they have like, uh, two to three water slides and like... I mean, it's everything you can imagine from every type of theme park or destination or whatever. And then after... Like in between every other day you like dock at a whole new town, so you get to get off the ship and like explore. And then when the day's over you... You're still on this whole ship with a bunch of crap to do. So anyway, I very much liked the cruise life as a kid. I was very lucky to be a cruise kid.
Christine Schiefer: I get it. Yeah. I mean, I get it. I always had like a... I was told to have opinions about them as well and I don't think they were necessarily fair. I just don't know. I don't know much about them. I get why they would be so fun. And I'm sure as a kid I would really wanna do one. I've heard a lot of horror stories now, so I'm slightly more skeptical. However, here's my however...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: What if we did a fun little like cruise? Like a... I don't know, a true crime cru... No, that sounds bad. Umm, but what...
[chuckle]
Em Schulz: It's a murder.
Christine Schiefer: No, like a paranormal cruise. Well, that already exists.
Em Schulz: Like a Jim Herald's paranormal cruise.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, I know. I'm like, I... Like I would do that. I would do something fun if it were like themed or built into like, uh...
Em Schulz: I would do Jim Herald's paranormal cruise with you.
Christine Schiefer: I would love to do that. That would be my dream.
Em Schulz: I do.
Christine Schiefer: We have not been invited. But I would love to do it. [laughter]
Em Schulz: I do. Uh, I know eventually my mom and I have always talked. 'Cause my... So my grandma was the big cruise person and my mom became a big cruise person. And because of that I like cruises. I don't do them now because that means I'd have to pay for them, umm... [chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: Right. Sure.
Em Schulz: But, uh...
Christine Schiefer: Which is why I'm saying we should do it for work so that I don't...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: We don't have to pay for that. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Well, so I think... I think, umm... So my, my grandmother who I think she's... So there's certain like memberships, not memberships, but umm, like a... Like a gold medallion something. Whatever.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I know. All about those people post their... They get trophies...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: And shit. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Yeah. So my mom... My grandma I think was only like three away or something from a hundred cruises, something crazy.
Christine Schiefer: Oh shit.
Em Schulz: And so she's... Once you hit a certain number, you're silver, then your bronze... But, so I don't know what the numbers are, but I know once you hit a hundred you're gold.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: I think. And, umm, she's... She's still here and she's still with it. So I think we're gonna try to do three cruises to get her the 100.
Christine Schiefer: Fuck. Yes.
Em Schulz: And then that might be the end of my cruise life.
Christine Schiefer: How cool is that Em.
Em Schulz: I know. So that's... Fingers crossed, that's like the... Probably the last of my cruise era. But it would be cool to like be with my grandma on her 100th. That'd be cool.
Christine Schiefer: I'd love that. And you know, my dad is actually going on a cruise for the first time. He's in his 70s. He's going on a cruise for the first time this week in his life.
Em Schulz: What... Which cruise line? Do you know?
Christine Schiefer: He's doing a very fancy one in Alaska. I don't know the details.
Em Schulz: Ooh.
Christine Schiefer: All he... All he said was, it's not like a normal cruise. And I said, I don't know what that means. [laughter] 'Cause you've never... And you don't know what that means. 'Cause neither of us have been on a cruise before. But he said that...
Em Schulz: If he's on it, it's not gonna be a normal cruise.
Christine Schiefer: It's not a normal. That's true. That's true. And so he's like, uh, he's going to Alaska and then they like do a week on land and then they do like a week.
Em Schulz: Oh, interesting.
Christine Schiefer: I don't know. It sounds crazy. I was like, "Have fun." I don't know.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: I don't really understand what's happening, but, umm, he's doing his first in his 70s, so it's not too late for me in my 30s. You know...
Em Schulz: That's the truth. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: I can still... Still get it in there. But, umm, I hope this doesn't come off. Umm, you know... Uh, what's the word? Like glib because this is, uh, obviously a very tragic story I'm about to tell. Umm, so...
Em Schulz: Sure sorry. I really came... I came and hot by saying I had an opinion about car... Carnival Cruises that was...
Christine Schiefer: No, no. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Probably the most elitist thing I'll ever say in my entire life. But, umm, [laughter] anyway, the end.
Christine Schiefer: No, no, I... I... I... I've... We needed to get it in there 'cause like I know cruises are something you and I have always had like, such intense, varying opinions on just for...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Me with my lack of experience. You with your [chuckle] just massive amounts of experience. Umm, so I knew we had to get that in there somewhere. So basically Carnival Cruises owns, uh, the... The Costa Cruise line, and I believe this is like a European subsidiary. Umm, and so it's an Italian vessel, this Costa Concordia. And essentially it is one of these massive ships that you describe Em. I don't know if there's like a fucking carnival on it. Uh, or carnival... Uh, what do you call it? A, uh, what did you say? It was on one of the floors? Like a circus or something?
Em Schulz: I mean, a car... It's in... It's ironic that I... I won't go on a...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Carnival cruise, but I will go on the carnival on a cruise.
Christine Schiefer: You want... You want a carnival...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: On your cruise? You don't want...
Em Schulz: Yeah. [chuckle] Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. [chuckle] So I don't know like what all was involved in the ship itself. Umm, but it was 114,000 tons and it carried 3,206 passengers.
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: And so this cruise was scheduled to be a 7 day Italian cruise from Civitavecchia, which is a port in Rome to Savona. And this is January, 2012. And, umm, I wanna say again, I don't know, I... I just wanna be clear here, with all our blabbering about cruises, you know, hard line here, this becomes very se... Very disturbing and upsetting and I don't want people to think we're taking this lightly, if that makes sense.
Em Schulz: Sure.
Christine Schiefer: Umm... So in addition to the passengers, there were 1023 crew members, so total 4252 people aboard. And this is a big-ass ship. The captain of the ship was 52-year-old Captain Francesco Schettino. And he had grown up on the Mediterranean coast and came from a long line of ship owners and seafarers. And according to his sister, Francesco loves the sea. He has always worked as an officer. He has a long career behind him. So he began his career working for a ferry line and was then hired by the parent company Carnival to work for Costa Cruises in 2002. And at first, he worked for a while as second-in-command on a ship. And in 2006, he was promoted and became captain of Costa's brand new cruise ship, the Costa Concordia. On the day of its launch, some superstitious people already felt like there was a little bit of a red flag in the air.
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: And as someone who does not think I'm superstitious but then has like deeply rooted OCD compulsions and...
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: And, uh, ticks, umm, I am probably not one to deny anybody they're superstitions. Uh, I feel like it was something people were like, ooh, that's not a good sign, but then didn't take it super seriously if that makes sense.
Em Schulz: Sure. Yeah, that makes sense.
Christine Schiefer: Basically, which we talked about on the Queen Mary... Uh, on the Queen Mary tour when I originally did the... The history of the Queen Mary, there is a maritime tradition. Do you remember the maritime tradition to like a... To...
Em Schulz: No.
Christine Schiefer: When a new ship is about to embark on its journey?
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I don't remember. What?
Christine Schiefer: You smash a bottle on the hull of the vessel.
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: You smash like a champagne bottle.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: On the hull. And so this is like an 18th century maritime tradition. They did it on the Queen Mary. Umm, and this was part of the tradition. So typically, the bottle is smashed and then they announce the ship's name. And this is like like the welcome to the... It's like its own umm, debutante ball..
Em Schulz: It's like a ribbon. Uh-huh. It's like... It's like a ribbon, a ribbon cutting.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, it's like presenting them to the world, you know what I mean? Like a ribbon cutting.
Em Schulz: Can you imagine if you just hit someone in the face with a champagne bottle and went, "This is the name of this person. Welcome." "Introducing our special TED talkers."
Christine Schiefer: Introducing welcome to society. Now, who wants to marry this beautiful bell of the ball? Okay, so sorry, she's covered in glass. [laughter] Umm, so... So they smash the bottle and announce the name of the ship. And the ritual traditionally is supposed to invoke fair winds and calm seas for future sailings. On smaller ships, they usually smash the bottle against the hull by hand. But on big cruise liners like the Concordia, the bottle is actually tied to a rope and then released like a pendulum.
Em Schulz: Damn.
Christine Schiefer: And it's meant to swing down and dramatically explode on the hull.
Em Schulz: Love it.
Christine Schiefer: So in 2002, the Concordia's champagne bottle was dropped, hit the hull, and did not shatter.
Em Schulz: [gasp. Oh, so everyone should... Red flag.
Christine Schiefer: Red flag. It actually bounced off. And in the video, you can hear the onlookers kind of make sounds of disappointment like, oh, it's supposed to like dramatically explode.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: And according to tradition, this was a terrible omen for the ship's career at sea.
Em Schulz: Mmm.
Christine Schiefer: Just saying. In 2008, the ship suffered serious damage when high winds in an Italian port pushed it into a dock. And there was also an issue in general with the crew. So in 2010, Francesco, the captain, allegedly caused damage to another crew's vessel when he entered a German port going way too fast. And a leaked letter that came out that was sent from his employer to him accused him of damaging the ship. So they kept it hush hush, but later this letter was leaked, revealing that he had like sped into a German port and damaged another ship.
Em Schulz: Mmh.
Christine Schiefer: Francesco wrote back in this letter, "I did not know the speed limit and have not received notification of an infraction from the relevant authorities." So there's no real conclusion here, but it's also not comforting to read that the captain admitted he didn't even know the speed limit and was just like bursting his way through. Like that's something you can find out, you know?
Em Schulz: Okay. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: And especially if you're driving a 71,000 ton ship, like maybe check the speed limit instead of saying, "Well, I didn't know the speed limit." Like that doesn't get you out of a ticket.
Em Schulz: I... I...
Christine Schiefer: So why would it get you out of smashing into another ship?
Em Schulz: I can't imagine the... I mean, I can't think of a worse excuse of like, "Oh...
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: "Well, I didn't know how to drive this." What? You...
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: What?
Christine Schiefer: I didn't check the law. It's like...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Well, that's okay. That doesn't really work. But all right. Umm, oh I guess it did because it seems like that kind of got brushed under the rug. Umm, so on Friday, January 13th, did you catch that?
Em Schulz: On Friday the 13th.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm. You caught that. Uh, nobody seems to mention that, but it was the first thing I saw, uh, you know it's...
Em Schulz: Interesting. No one else cares the... The way that we care about that.
Christine Schiefer: I mean, I'm sure people noticed it. I don't know. I think it's pretty ominous, but... I guess.
Em Schulz: I feel like if this is a story already rooted in superstition.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: I mean, yeah, well, whatever. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Maybe it was just not the news. Maybe the news articles were not really... You know.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Pitching that angle. Umm, so Friday the 13th, January 13th, 2012, the Concordia was underway on its six day journey. Around 9:00 PM, the ship would pass the Tuscan Island of Giglio. And many ships pass the island on their routes, usually two to three miles away from shore. And the Concordia's route that night was meant to take the ship past the island, get this, six miles from the shore.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: However... So the planned route, six miles away from shore, right? However, some vessels participate in sort of a sketchy tradition which...
Em Schulz: I reckon.
Christine Schiefer: You just love to hear it. Uh, a sketchy tradition called a sail-by. And on Giglio Island, uh, this practice is known as an inchino or a bow, and it involves lighting up the ship as bright as possible, deviating from the planned route.
Em Schulz: What?
Christine Schiefer: To sail much closer to shore, and honk the horn as like a spectacle for all the people on the land.
Em Schulz: Oh God. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: So this is sort of like a... A wink wink. Like we just do this, we kind of deviate from the route for a few miles and put on a little show and then go back to the route. Apparently this is something a lot of ships do, and officially it's not a recognized practice, but the mayor of Giglio, this island, said many of them pass close to Giglio to salute the local population with blasts from their sirens. It's a very nice show to see, the ship all lit up when you see it from the land. Now...
Em Schulz: And I feel like as a person, I... I would be get... As a person on shore, I'd be so stoked. It's kinda like when you're on the highway and you just like pull your hands around the trucks.
Christine Schiefer: Yes! Yes. Yes.
Em Schulz: And they would honk back and you get thrilled.
Christine Schiefer: Like a personal route. Absolutely.
Em Schulz: Yeah. I could see why it would be fun to put on that show for people.
Christine Schiefer: Yes. I totally, totally get it. And... And adding onto that, the sail-bys were also sort of salutes to crew members of different ships who often retired to the island. So they're like living on this island...
Em Schulz: Mmmh.
Christine Schiefer: And they see their ship go by or like another ship and they're sort of... It's sort of like a wink wink at like the people who were in their same field, you know, like.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Retired cruise, I don't know, captains or whoever was, uh, part of the staff in the past who's retired, now you can give them like a little like nod of acknowledgement and go on your way. And so yes, it's nice in theory, however, deviating from the route, uh, which was pretty intentionally created to keep the ship safe, uh, obviously can be hazardous. So, I mean, I probably don't even need to tell you this, but there are rocks. Uh, there are...
Em Schulz: Right. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Shallow water. Uh, things that are not meant to be driven over by a 71,000 ton ship. So on January 13th, Francesco finished his dinner and headed to the bridge at little af... A little after 9:00 PM. And this is from marineinsight.com because I didn't know what a bridge was. Uh, do you know what a bridge is on a ship?
Em Schulz: Uh, in my mind it's like the captain's la... Like where he goes to bed or, or like the...
Christine Schiefer: I...
Em Schulz: Where you like watch the wheel and the speedometer and everything. No?
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I don't... Ma... Oh yeah, I think you're probably right. 'Cause I was thinking the brig and I'm like that's a different thing, right?
Em Schulz: Oh, like a jail?
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. I'm like isn't that a dungeon? What's happening?
Em Schulz: I think going to like... Uh, going to the bridge is like the area...
Christine Schiefer: It's like the...
Em Schulz: With all the like equipment.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. I think you're right. So I copied and pasted the definition here from marineinsight.com. The bridge is the main control center of a vessel. You're so smart. From where the captain...
Em Schulz: Well, I watch a lot of... I watch a lot of Below Deck also, so.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, that's right. I was gonna say you've been on so many ships, but you've just watched a lot of reality tv. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, so Eva probably knew that one right away. She likes that show. I know that.
Em Schulz: Well, that's why I also thought it was like the captain's like lounge or where he goes to sleep because on yachts they're these... A lot of times the same spot.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, they're connected.
Em Schulz: So that way the captain's always near the bridge.
Christine Schiefer: Now what if you knew that about yachts 'cause you've spent so much time on yachts. That would be funny. [giggles]
Em Schulz: It probably would not sound any better than me spending a lot of time on cruises, so.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Uh, it'd probably be worse. Uh, okay, so let's see. The bridge is the main control center from where the captain and officers are able to man the entire operations of the vessel. Is generally located in a position with an unrestricted view and immediate access to the essential areas of ship. So yes, you were right. So he goes to the bridge around 9:00 PM to initiate this sail-by of Giglio Island. At 9:34 PM, he told the helmsman Jacob to turn the radar to manual mode. He then phoned up former Captain Mario Polomba, who he used to work under when he was second in command, and Mario had basically pioneered like created the sail-by tradition. So Francesco was like, "Okay, I'm calling you, you're like the expert on this sail-by thing. What's the safe distance from shore?" Uh, Mario tells Francesco, "You'll be all good, uh, if you're 0.3 to 0.4 miles off the island." That's 1500 feet. They're supposed to be six miles off the shore.
Em Schulz: Yeah. They're really, really flirting with trouble.
Christine Schiefer: Now they're 0.3. Like that is a dramatic distance off route.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: In my opinion. So Mario's like, "Oh yeah, you're totally fine if you're like 1500 feet away from the shore." So Francesco sets the radar for 0.5 miles from the shore, but then he started using his binoculars to estimate the distance manually.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Now the conditions at this point were not ideal either. The wind was really rough, uh, so the water was choppy and that obviously makes it very difficult to see hazards like rocks, that kind of thing. Uh, it was also partially cloudy and nighttime. So like just not the ideal time, uh, to kind of go off route, uh, for funsies.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: So Francesco once said in an interview quote, "I wouldn't like to be in the role of captain on the Titanic having to sail in an ocean of icebergs. These days everything is much safer. It is easier to navigate thanks to modern technical instruments and the internet." So what he does is he turns everything off and decides to estimate it with his binoculars.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: So basically he just said... I don't know if you caught the irony there? He basically said, driving a ship... I don't know if you drive a ship, do you drive a ship?
Em Schulz: I think there's a wheel.
Christine Schiefer: That's true. You captain a ship. He said, I would not wanna be the captain of Titanic. Everything's manual. You don't know if there are any hazards, but at least now we have technology. And now he's turning off all the technology to do it manually.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Just to clarify. So he is relying on his senses, very dangerous, over technical instruments to navigate a dangerous maneuver. Uh, ironically, fun fact, the date was only a few months away from the 100 year anniversary of the Titanic sinking.
Em Schulz: Oh, Okay. Well there's also a... That's also a really sad, fun fact.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Terrible. So in an interview, former Captain Mario said that Francesco was always a daredevil who frequently had to be put back in his place. And that was his former boss. So that's not a good sign.
Em Schulz: Mmm.
Christine Schiefer: Now obviously when sailing people use the term knots to denote speed, umm...
Em Schulz: Sure.
Christine Schiefer: We're gonna use miles per hour, just...
Em Schulz: Thank you.
Christine Schiefer: So we are not constantly trying to convert them. At 9:40, Francesco told Jacob, the helmsman, to increase the ship speed from 3.5 miles per hour to 18 miles per hour and to turn toward 310 degrees. Now at this point, the ship was still following the route on the radar passing about half a mile away. But Francesco ordered the helmsman to deviate from that course to follow his own like manual eyeballing. He's like, just go that way, like by sight. And this is where some controversy starts with Jacob, the helmsman. Okay. Because ships have what is called a work language. I did not know this. And that is the official language of that ship that crew members are all expected to speak and understand at least somewhat fluently to make sure everybody can communicate. It's for safety reasons.
Em Schulz: Geez. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Do you know what I mean?
Em Schulz: I would think all ships would have the same language.
Christine Schiefer: Well, no, no, no. Like I'm talking like English, Italian.
Em Schulz: Oh. Oh.
Christine Schiefer: French.
Em Schulz: I thought you're saying there's like a work jargon that every individual ship has.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no, no, I'm sorry. I mean like each ship has to have an official language that everybody...
Em Schulz: Got it.
Christine Schiefer: Needs to speak.
Em Schulz: Got it, got it.
Christine Schiefer: To be able to like effectively communicate with...
Em Schulz: It makes much more sense.
Christine Schiefer: The entire... Yeah. 'Cause it's like over a thousand people on the staff and they were all expected to know the same language. And on this ship, the language was Italian. Makes sense. It's an Italian ship, most of the crew is Italian. And so this common language was meant to be used in emergencies so they could understand orders so that they could direct passengers. Everybody could be on the same page. And like I said, the Concordia's work language was Italian. So everyone on the bridge, especially the helmsman, should be fluent in Italian. But because English has become, you know, pretty ubiquitous, uh, there are sometimes this assumption that everybody should speak it or does speak it even when their first language is not English.
Christine Schiefer: But there was no reason that Jacob, the helmsman should have been expected to speak English when the work language was Italian. However, Francesco claims that helmsman Jacob barely spoke English or Italian, which caused miscommunications in the bridge. However, recordings from the bridge seemed to contradict that claim. Basically...
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Uh, Jacob was not fluent in English and Francesco's kind of using that as an excuse.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Even though he was supposed to be speaking Italian 'cause that was the language of the ship. So, the ship's black box recorded Francesco giving commands at critical moments exclusively in English, which was not the language Jacob was expected to know. At 9:40 PM he ordered Jacob in English to direct the ship to 325 degrees. Jacob repeated, "315?" And the first deck officer, who also apparently struggled with English, corrected him with yet another incorrect number saying, "No, 335."
Em Schulz: Oh, okay.
Christine Schiefer: So these are already three different numbers being bandied about here. Francesco then repeated 325 and Jacob finally understood and said, "Okay, 325." Minutes later, Francesco gave another bearing in English saying, "350." Jacob repeated, "340?"
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: And Francesco told him, "No, 350." He said, "Otherwise we'll end up on the rocks." Soon the boat was half a mile closer to the island than initially planned.
Em Schulz: Oh God.
Christine Schiefer: So Francesco looked ahead, realized there was a problem. There were waves breaking against rocks straight ahead and they were basically on collision course with disaster.
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: He started giving orders to Jacob to turn the ship to 350 degrees. But there was another major issue because now they were going 18 miles per hour, which is way too fast to turn efficiently. So Jacob directed the boat to the correct bearing, but they were still only turning 327 degrees, uh, which is still under what they needed to avoid the rocks. Oh God. What was that?
Em Schulz: She found it on the web.
Christine Schiefer: Who was that?
Em Schulz: Umm, probably, that was Siri. What are you talking about?
Christine Schiefer: Was that your Siri?
Em Schulz: No, that was your Siri.
Christine Schiefer: It was not mine.
Em Schulz: It wasn't mine.
Christine Schiefer: That is so weird.
Em Schulz: We both heard her, right?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. But it came from like over here.
Em Schulz: No, but it came from over here. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: What the fuck?
Em Schulz: That's weird.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. So they start to turn, but they're going so fast that the turn... They're not gonna make the turn in time, if that makes sense.
Em Schulz: Right. They're still going under the amount that they need to get away from the collision track.
Christine Schiefer: Precisely. Exactly. You got it. You're so smart.
Em Schulz: I know.
Christine Schiefer: Uh, you know, obviously way more about boats than I do, even though I had took sailing lessons for years, that's my douchey thing to say. I took sailing lessons for years. I fucking hated it, 'cause it was always summer vacation and it was like 6:30 in the morning and my stepmom would make us go out 6:30 in the morning to sail. I'm like, I'd rather do literally anything else. Umm...
Em Schulz: Why? Well, whatever. I probably saw you on a cruise ship and waved. I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: And [laughter] yeah, honked your horn. And then our test at the end was that we had to take our parents on a sailboat by ourselves. I was like, nine.
Em Schulz: That's... That is illegal.
Christine Schiefer: I know.
Em Schulz: That has to be illegal.
Christine Schiefer: And...
Em Schulz: Of like... And for your final test, we're going to watch you kill everybody.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Guy li... Guy literally sat on the shore. I was like, this can't be right. I'm nine.
Em Schulz: That can't be right of like... He literally... That can't be right of like...
Christine Schiefer: I'm like, you know I didn't pay attention.
Em Schulz: Put everybody you love on a boat and sink it. Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: The only thing I remember is starboard... Starboard and...
Em Schulz: Starboard.
Christine Schiefer: Starboard. That's what I said. And... [laughter] And port.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Left and right?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Which one's left?
Em Schulz: Uh... Port.
Christine Schiefer: Yes. That's all I know. So anyway.
Em Schulz: Okay.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Okay. So let's get back to this. So he is saying, umm, steer further and further to the right starboard... Star... Are you sure it's not starboard?
Em Schulz: Star? Well, starboard.
Christine Schiefer: It's starboard.
Em Schulz: I don't know anymore.
Christine Schiefer: Whatever. Okay. It's, uh...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It's starbo... It's to the right. And so...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: He's saying it's...
Em Schulz: It's not port.
Christine Schiefer: It's not port. I wish it were 'cause...
Em Schulz: Not port side. Not port side.
Christine Schiefer: I could say that very easily. So he keeps instructing him to steer further and further. And as they passed the rock, uh, the captain ordered Jacob to center the rudder, and then port 20, which is 10 degrees to the left. But Jacob mistakenly turned right instead of left for about eight whole seconds. And to me, eight seconds is a long time to be turning in the wrong direction.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Right? Like if you're trying to avoid...
Em Schulz: That's a lot of Mississippis.
Christine Schiefer: Yes. If you're trying to avoid a rock? Oh my gosh. So eight seconds in the wrong direction. So he turned hard left because he realized he was going in the wrong direction to correct the error, but it was too late. The second deck officer shouted that the ship was going to hit, and then there was a loud crash as the rear left side of the ship collided with the rocks tearing open a 174 foot long hole in the hull of the ship.
Em Schulz: Oh my God. Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: Immediately, thousands of tons of water began flooding the ship. Upon impact, the ship's speed reduced to 9.5 miles per hour and lost propulsion of both engines. And the Concordia was now officially adrift.
Em Schulz: Mmm.
Christine Schiefer: Only 22 seconds after impact, all engines were flooded and had all failed. And there was a ship wide blackout.
Em Schulz: [gasp]
Christine Schiefer: Keep in mind it's nighttime. It's like after 9:00 PM.
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: It's like 9:30, 10:00 PM something around there. Francesco ordered the closing of all watertight doors. Crew ran to the lower decks to assess the damage, and found that in only six minutes, water had entered the workshop and the engine room affecting the main electric switchboard and the emergency switchboard.
Christine Schiefer: So the crew stood in oncoming water and used a screwdriver to manually reboot the emergency power system. But damage to the cooling fan made the safety system continually override their attempts because a high temperature warning kept shutting it down. So they would like try to manually start it, and then the emergency device would say high temperature and shut it back down. So they like could not access the emergency protocol, emergency power system. So the ship, like I said, had a ship wide blackout. They lost all power, meaning lights, rudders, Even the bilge pumps, which are meant to push water out in case of flooding, all of them fai... All of them were shut off. So this thing is just now floating and taking on water.
Em Schulz: Oof. Yeah. And also no one else can see them 'cause like someone else could hit them.
Christine Schiefer: True. And they don't now it's dark, right, true. No lights. So at 9:54 PM the bridge made a ship wide announcement that there was simply an electrical issue and they were addressing it.
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. So this is where this becomes more of a true crime story, unfortunately.
Em Schulz: Mmh.
Christine Schiefer: Although Francesco should have already been initiating emergency protocol, he instead assured everyone on the ship that everything was under control and they could just go about their business.
Em Schulz: But they know there's like a massive hole in the hull and the boat is sinking?
Christine Schiefer: I don't know if they know that. No.
Em Schulz: Okay. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: 'Cause again, it's one of these massive ships where like 170 feet is big, but maybe not...
Em Schulz: Well, not compared to the rest of the ship.
Christine Schiefer: Right. Maybe not big enough that you would... If you were in your room playing cards, you maybe not know that what that noise was, and then the power went out.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: And maybe you just think, oh, they just had like a system failure, you know. Then they announced, oh, it's just an electrical issue and you trust the captain of the ship, right? Like it's an abuse of power really. Umm, so internal emergency batteries within the ship shortly were able to at least return power to the lights and communication, although everything else was utterly functionless so they had no way of, you know, pumping out the water, nothing like that. So those like, Em, who have been on cruises will know, which I did not, that on the first day onboard the cruise, everyone has to go to... And tell me if this is true, Em. Everyone has to go to their designated meeting spot and listen to the crew discuss emergency protocol.
Em Schulz: Yep.
Christine Schiefer: Is that right?
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: And it's sort of like the talk, uh, that flight attendants give. You know, like if anything were to happen, oxygen mask, blah, blah, blah, like the... That sort of a emergency protocol conversation. That way in the event of an emergency, everyone knows where to go. Having felt the crash, like you mentioned, many passengers were already kind of leaving their cabins and putting on life jackets and going to the designated emergency spots, uh, thinking, well, we've been told what to do in case of an emergency, so let's follow that instruction. But when they arrived to their emergency spots, they were told to return to their cabins because nothing was wrong.
Em Schulz: Ugh. Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. The deputy chief officer contacted the bridge to inform the captain that at least three of the ship compartments were flooded, and the ship began to list to its left side. And, uh, for those who don't know, that just means to... To shift, like to... To lean to the left side. Francesco called the Costa company's crisis coordinator and reported the incident and said that water had reached the main electrical panel. Costa headquarters misunderstood which compartments were flooded, didn't realize there was a blackout, and suggested...
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: They just use their propellers to steer the ship to safety. Now people ashore who were expecting this big, like light show and like honking, you know, uh, could tell that the Concordia was in trouble. I mean, now it's literally like leaning sideways.
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: The Civitavecchia, I hope I'm saying that right, harbormaster contacted the ship to assess it's situation. Francesco told the harbormaster that they were addressing a simple blackout and everything was under control.
Em Schulz: Oh, that's the worst of it.
Christine Schiefer: Like he's blatantly lying.
Em Schulz: That was when he could've asked for help.
Christine Schiefer: He's like... They said, do you need assistance? Do you need rescue? He said, oh, it's just a... He didn't even tell them we drove into a giant rock.
Em Schulz: That... That was... That's the moment.
Christine Schiefer: That's a crime.
Em Schulz: Because that's...
Christine Schiefer: That's a true crime.
Em Schulz: That's when you should have said, I need help. Thank you for seeing there. And like, this isn't the Titanic when you're in the middle of fucking nowhere.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. People are...
Em Schulz: Like people can help you!
Christine Schiefer: You're... That... That's what makes it so dark too, is they were so close to shore. Like that's...
Em Schulz: And people are watching these people now on their way to death.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. It's horrifying. Exactly. I mean, you've really just nailed it. That's exactly what's happening. Which makes it so much more dark, 'cause it could have been... It could have been saved, you know.
Em Schulz: Like at what point does like someone on the... On shore just be like, fuck what this guy is saying, we need to go out there and check on them?
Christine Schiefer: I don't know. Like how...
Em Schulz: I don't even know if you're allowed to.
Christine Schiefer: How would you? Like, how would you?
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: The ship is so massive. Like, I don't know how you... Maybe if you've sent like your own boats out to get people, but there's only so much I imagine.
Em Schulz: Well, like they could have called like, like the Coast Guard or something...
Christine Schiefer: True.
Em Schulz: To come in and help. Like anything.
Christine Schiefer: They might have, I'm not really sure. I mean it sounds like their version of the Coast Guard called out and said, what's going on?
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: And he just blatantly lied. Said it's just an electrical problem.
Em Schulz: Oof.
Christine Schiefer: So in fact, the first deck officer and deputy chief engineer had just determined that four of the ship's compartments were now flooded. And at this point there is no saving the ship. They were like, "This ship is going down, we cannot save it." Minutes later, Francesco contacted the fleet crisis coordinator to tell them, uh, let me guess... To tell them that the ship is going down. No, no. He told them, actually, it's all good. It's just a blackout. Don't worry.
Em Schulz: Oh my God. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: And I'm just thinking he's trying to save face, I'm assuming, and like...
Em Schulz: Like he's just... He's just embarrassed and his ego is pricking up.
Christine Schiefer: His pride. His pride got ahead of him. Yes. It's... It's tragic. The passengers on board started contacting family members to tell them something didn't seem right. The ship...
Em Schulz: Oh, God.
Christine Schiefer: Was listing to its side more and more. Passenger's families then called the police who contacted the Coast Guard. Good call, Em. There was back and forth again with Francesco, his crew and Costa headquarters. But still nobody at Costca... Costa or I almost said Costco. Nobody at...
Em Schulz: I was gonna say, no one at Costco what?
Christine Schiefer: Kirkland! No. Nobody at Costa or in the bridge had declared any actual emergency, prepared passengers to disembark the vessel. Even the ones who by the way were prepared to disembark and put their life jackets on were told to go back to their rooms.
Em Schulz: Mmh.
Christine Schiefer: They even told the harbormaster that they were not in an emergency and nothing was going on. Just don't worry about it. But the harbormaster was suspicious, obviously. So he sent out a boat to assess the state of the Concordia. And at nearly 10:30 PM Francesco finally contacted the Coast Guard, but requested only tugboats to tow the ship. He lied...
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: And told them that the flooding was confined to compartments that protected the ship from sinking and everything was under control. He also said there were no deaths or injuries, which was a lie because he didn't... He had no way of knowing that. He was just saying it.
Em Schulz: Right. He was just guessing.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, he was just guessing.
Em Schulz: So like, well the boat isn't totally underwater, so everyone's probably okay currently.
Christine Schiefer: Everyone's fine. Yeah. He was hoping everyone was fine. Many have speculated that at this point Francesco was in absolute denial about the situation. Refused to believe things were as dire as they really were. Uh, however others believe he knew the gravity of the situation, but was trying to lie to protect his reputation, uh, to, like we said, his ego, his pride got in the way. Especially 'cause he was the one who had instructed them to go close to shore. You know what I mean? Like, this was his idea. And I think he's trying to backtrack. So indeed minutes after he told the harbormaster that everything was under control, he called Costa headquarters and told them the real situation. But Costa didn't contact emergency services either. Now the ship is beginning to list to the right and water starts moving upward through the ship. And by now, this gives me actual chills, the kitchen and elevators were underwater.
Em Schulz: Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: Is this not terrifying? I mean.
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: Ugh. So by this point, as you can imagine, it is total chaos aboard the ship. Passengers are now very aware that the ship is sinking, but staff keeps telling them everything's under control and even ask them to return to their cabins.
Em Schulz: What the fuck... Can someone, is someone not like, umm, I can't get to my room because the elevators have water in them.
Christine Schiefer: It's under water. It's just...
Em Schulz: My room's under water. What do you mean nothing's broken?
Christine Schiefer: Hello? Nothing's wrong? You want me to go swim into my room? It doesn't make any sense. So the passengers were like, fuck you, fuck this. We've had enough. And they started loading...
Em Schulz: So there's... There's jumping?
Christine Schiefer: They started loading each other into lifeboats themselves...
Em Schulz: Aww.
Christine Schiefer: Because they were like, the staff is not... The crew is not putting people on lifeboats. We're gonna put ourselves on lifeboats.
Em Schulz: And you know one fucking person on that ship was like, I've seen the Titanic. Like...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Bye.
Em Schulz: Mmh.
Christine Schiefer: Bye. We're getting on a boat. So they started to load each other onto lifeboats themselves and wildly local television stations were broadcasting the scene live from shore and they're showing a sinking ship and they're sowing... Showing passengers like putting each other on the lifeboats.
Em Schulz: Oh my God. First of all, round of applause to like the humanity in those people.
Christine Schiefer: Ser... Seriously. Uh, yeah. You're gonna round of applause for somebody in a minute too, which is... We'll get there. The chief engineer told Francesco it was time to give the order to abandon ship, but he didn't.
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: Meanwhile, the engine crew working in the lower decks contacted the bridge for permission to abandon their stations, which were flooding and they were going to die. And Francesco told them, "No, stay at your station."
Em Schulz: I'd be like, fuck you, I'm leaving. Anyway.
Christine Schiefer: Seriously, finally a safety officer actually took over. Like a mutiny almost, and told the engine staff to evacuate. If they had actually waited for Francesco's permission, they would've drowned. No doubt, they would've drowned.
Em Schulz: Oh, my God.
Christine Schiefer: So despite Francesco's command to wait, other crew members began to take... Take charge and it became technically a mutiny. They basically, you know, he's the captain. The rest of the crew said, "We are no longer listening to the captain's orders, we're...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: "mutinying and we are taking over."
Em Schulz: Good. Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Wow. Yeah. Good, good, good.
Christine Schiefer: If ever a mutiny was in order, I would say it would be now.
Em Schulz: I'm for it. Yeah. This is it.
Christine Schiefer: Absolutely. So at 10:33, the general emergency alarm was finally raised. And another announcement informed passengers that the situation was under control. And so it's almost like they're fighting back and forth. Like, he's like, "No, everything's fine." And they're like, "Nope, there's an emergency." Finally, minutes later, the passengers were told to go to their emergency stations. This is nearly a full hour after impact.
Em Schulz: Oh, my God.
Christine Schiefer: If they had just evacuated at impact, probably everyone would've survived.
Em Schulz: Oh, my God. He should be so lucky that people are defying him or else he would be in jail for a lot of death.
Christine Schiefer: A lot. So the ship then sent a distress signal... Signal finally to the Coast Guard who prepared to send rescue units to assist the evacuation of the ship. The captain told the Coast Guard, he was trying to maneuver the ship towards shore to aid evacuation, which was a lie because there was no power to the engine or rudder, so he couldn't navigate the ship anywhere. So he was just lying. Uh, at 10:50 PM more than an hour after impact, Francesco finally decided to give the abandoned ship announcement.
Em Schulz: Mmh.
Christine Schiefer: But he was afraid it would sound too intense, so he rephrased it.
Em Schulz: Oh, my God.
Christine Schiefer: And the new announcement was, "Let passengers onshore."
Em Schulz: Oh, oh okay.
Christine Schiefer: So just no sense of urgency whatsoever.
Em Schulz: If they feel like it, like no pressure you know.
Christine Schiefer: If they feel like it, like let them off if they want. Taking control, mutiny, his second in command, got on the intercom and shouted, "Abandon ship."
Em Schulz: Good.
Christine Schiefer: Imagine hearing that.
Em Schulz: Good job.
Christine Schiefer: They're like, uh, let passengers off-board. And then another voice grabs the mic and says, "Abandon ship." That must be so scary.
Em Schulz: I've also... Like I wanna know, like, is anyone in the room with the captain at this point? Like, are they looking him in the eyes being like, "Are you this fucking stupid?"
Christine Schiefer: Yes, they are. And they're saying like, no, we are giving this command. And he's like, "I'm the captain." You know? And they're like, "We don't care. People are gonna die."
Em Schulz: Like in my mind, he like kept being in a room by himself at least. So like...
Christine Schiefer: No.
Em Schulz: Nobody else had to deal with this bullshit, but like him being in, so... Like it... At one point it was maybe... In the beginning. Okay, well he doesn't know how bad the damage is on the ship. And now it's like he's fully blatantly lying 'cause he... 'Cause of his pride. But that makes me rethink how early on did he know there was a problem and he was in denial 'cause like, I wanna give him the benefit of the doubt, but I feel like wherever I was giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. But also...
Em Schulz: He probably knew before that.
Christine Schiefer: But he's the captain. Like he's the one who gets all of the information. Like nobody is like forgetting to tell him, you know what I mean? Like they told him...
Em Schulz: Yeah. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Right away, "Hey, our emergency system is down and we can't turn it on."
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Hey, there's a ship wide blackout and there's tons of water coming onto the ship.
Em Schulz: You know, when like his second in command would abandon ship, you know, he had the nerve to look that guy in the eyes and be like, "How dare you say it like that."
Christine Schiefer: I'm captain.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Did you not hear me already tell them that? Well you thought you could do it better. You know, he had some sort of nasty snide remark.
Christine Schiefer: Some sort of. And the wild part was they announced abandon ship, but they gave the command in English. And again, this is an Italian vessel, the language...
Em Schulz: Oh, my God.
Christine Schiefer: Is meant to be Italian, you can't just expect the thousands of people on board to... To know what abandon ship means if they're prepared for an Italian phrase that means abandon ship.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: So it's just all a big clusterfuck. And the ship began to drop lifeboats to transport passengers to shore. Luckily, due to the very cause of the sinking, the shore was only a couple hundred feet away. So at the very least, like the ones that were able to get onto the lifeboats could make it to shore pretty easily.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: But unfortunately they'd waited far too long for a rescue mission and the ship began to list so dramatically to one side that lifeboat evacuation became nearly impossible.
Em Schulz: Oh, my God.
Christine Schiefer: The boats that had already dropped started making trips back and forth, unloading passengers onshore and then picking more up from the ship. And to get onto the lifeboats, passengers had to climb down the side of the ship on a ladder, but the ship was nearly completely sideways with half of it...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Underwater. This is so upsetting. Uh, other passengers started jumping off the ship into the dark seawater where some were rescued by coast guards, but others were pulled underwater by the suction created by the sinking ship and drowned.
Em Schulz: I was gonna say, yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Like, it probably looked like a good option 'cause you're not far from shore and you can probably think, hey, I'm a good swimmer, I don't wanna take a spot on this lifeboat. But if you jump in and there's that top... Rip tide basically pulling... That current, pulling you under, you know, what are you gonna do? I mean...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: It's... It's horrific. And this is when, earlier today Em heard me just gasp when I, umm...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Was... Was looking, uh, up photos. Umm, I'm gonna send you a photo of, uh, what this... This...
Em Schulz: Someone jumping?
Christine Schiefer: No, no, no. It's just like what the ship looked like. And we can also put, umm... It's on Instagram. It's just like a shocking site, uh...
Em Schulz: Oh, Jesus.
Christine Schiefer: It's like fucking sideways.
Em Schulz: I... I cannot believe. So was the captain like hanging sideways?
Christine Schiefer: I know right?
Em Schulz: And like, making decisions that the boat was fine?
Christine Schiefer: And saying, "Oh, it's just an electrical issue." It's like the fuck.
Em Schulz: Like an electrical issue, you're fucking at 180 degrees. What are you talking about?
Christine Schiefer: I mean...
Em Schulz: Oh, my God. Yeah, well the lifeboats, you can see other lifeboats they can't even use hanging off the side...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Because they waited too long.
Christine Schiefer: It's too long. It's too late.
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: There's some really upsetting photos like, you know, if you want to Google it, but, umm, there are also photos, uh, inside the wreck.
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: I'll send you one of those which are like really unsettling. I mean, it makes you think of like... I mean, it makes you think of the Titanic, you know, like...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: The... The sight of... Of... Like what it, how fun and cool it was now turned into like such an eerie wreckage.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Like here's, umm... Oh my Lord.
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: Here's a picture of like slot machines, you know? And they're just... Ugh. It's so dark.
Em Schulz: It's just infuriating that someone just like didn't have like the...
Christine Schiefer: For their own to save face. Really? Was it worth it? You know.
Em Schulz: Like you don't even have the morality to just... Just fucking say, I need help.
Christine Schiefer: Just, Exactly. Exactly.
Em Schulz: Wow. Oh my god.
Christine Schiefer: Umm. Just... You know, people trust you. You're the captain of the ship. They trust you with their lives.
Em Schulz: Mmh.
Christine Schiefer: It's incredibly dark. Umm, so anyway, uh, like I said, the ship is really going down now. Umm, people are trying to climb out of the ship. Jumping out of the ship, but they're getting pulled underwater, dying drowning, you know, from the suction. At 11:30, the crew abandoned the bridge giving no more announcements or orders. There are still 300 people aboard the ship. And they just were like, bye. The island's deputy mayor arrived and actually took a lifeboat. This is the mayor... Took a lifeboat back to the ship and climbed aboard the ship himself after the crew had.
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: Abandoned the ship.
Em Schulz: Now that's a man of the people, right? That is... [laughter] That's a hero. Wow.
Christine Schiefer: He took a boat. He's like, fuck this. He took a boat, climbed aboard the ship as it's like dramatically sinking and like, guys look at the photos. We'll put them on Instagram. He searched the ship for someone in charge because he was like, we need to go over the evacuation plan. Guess what? Everyone had already peaced out. The whole crew was gone. So he... He found nobody. However, there were still 80 people aboard the ship. Francesco though was nowhere to be found. He had, get this, changed out of his captain's uniform and put on a suit.
Em Schulz: Why? To go down with a ship or something?
Christine Schiefer: No. To get on a lifeboat and not look like the captain of the ship.
Em Schulz: [gasp] Oh. My God.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: So he's... He wasn't in that much denial. He knew what was going on.
Christine Schiefer: He was ready to do a costume change.
Em Schulz: Wow. He was literally about to disguise himself. And by the way, for all of this, I'm the captain. I'm the captain. You're abandoning your post while letting other people die in the ship. Crazy.
Christine Schiefer: Crazy. Uh, really like beyond. Yes. Basically put on a suit, jumped in a lifeboat with other passengers, just kind of sailed away while there were still people aboard the ship needing rescue.
Em Schulz: So he'd already snuck off.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. He had snuck off. Yes.
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: Yes. Yes. Uh, basically went to save himself, uh, as his ship continued to sink behind him with people aboard and didn't even have the gall to the... The... The cojones, I don't know the right word to own up to being the captain that he was so proud of a minute ago.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: So the deputy mayor gave up his search and started direct... Like start... Gave up his search of the crew 'cause he wasn't gonna find them. They were gone... Directing people... He started directing people to safety with the assistance of a single officer and a ship's doctor. The only two people who stayed behind.
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: One officer, one doctor. Both of them helped rescue efforts until the very end. The Coast Guard called Francesco and asked him why he abandoned the ship with passengers still aboard. The Coast Guard's like, "Hey, fuck you. Why did you leave?" And he claimed... This is a real thing that he said, Em. He claimed he had, he claimed he had fallen into a lifeboat by accident.
[cackles]
Em Schulz: Oh my God. I'm sorry. It's not funny. It's not funny, to be clear.
Christine Schiefer: It's just like the most outrageous thing I've ever heard.
Em Schulz: What?
Christine Schiefer: It's absurdity...
Em Schulz: What?
Christine Schiefer: At its finest. He's like...
Em Schulz: That's like when people who are... Like, who cheat on someone, they're like, oh, I accidentally slept with them. What?
Christine Schiefer: Like, I.
Em Schulz: Tell me how.
Christine Schiefer: I accidentally fell into them? It's like, that's not...
Em Schulz: Yeah. What?
Christine Schiefer: No, that's how none of this works. I fell into a lifeboat and I accidentally fell into my, uh, citizens, my... My regular citizen uniform. Not my...
Em Schulz: I fell in... I fell out of the bridge into my tuxedo.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: And then all the way onto the other side of the ship into a lifeboat and onto shore. Whoops I just...
Christine Schiefer: Before I knew... Before I knew what happened.
Em Schulz: I rode like a can of Chef Boyardee all the way home.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: All the way home. Without any understanding of what was happening. Umm, he said he fell into a lifeboat by accident. And the Coast Guard, this is...
Em Schulz: Don't tell me they believed it.
Christine Schiefer: Paraphrase... Nope, paraphrased for English translation told Francesco, "Get the fuck back on the ship."
Em Schulz: Yeah. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Yes. This line became so famous in Italy that people started selling t-shirts that wore the phrase, get the fuck back on board.
Em Schulz: That's great.
Christine Schiefer: So this t-shirt went viral. Get the fuck back on board. However, shocker, Francesco refused to get back on board. He instead took a taxi back to his hotel.
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: And he was interviewed on the way there, and he told the news he was the last one to leave the ship.
Em Schulz: [gasp] What a piece of shit.
Christine Schiefer: What a piece of shit. But everyone...
Em Schulz: And you know, he still... He still doesn't think he did anything wrong. Probably.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. He's probably talked his way into like, I did the right thing. But everyone could plainly see that people were still being rescued and still dying. And this guy's like outside his hotel in a suit saying, "Oh yeah, I was the last one aboard." Like blatant lie.
Em Schulz: And they, I want... They had to interview him and be like, "Why aren't you in your captain's outfit?"
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: And he had to be like, "Oh, I fell into my suit. Sorry."
Christine Schiefer: I fell into this pants. I don't even know where they came from.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Uh, I swear it's shocking. Umm, now the rescue operations were declared complete at 6:17 AM.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: So like the crew abandoned the ship at 11:30 PM.
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: And now it's 6:15, 6:17 AM the following morning, and they're finally declaring rescue operations complete. Now the ship came to rest halfway underwater, lying on its side against submerged rocks 24 hours later while banging on cabin doors in the part of the ship that wa... Was not submerged, that was still...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Up like above water. Rescuers found, get this a 29-year-old couple on their honeymoon...
Em Schulz: Uh!
Christine Schiefer: Who had slept through the whole thing.
Em Schulz: Ah, I fucking love them. Good for them.
Christine Schiefer: That's you. That's you.
Em Schulz: That sure would be, I... I certainly hope so.
Christine Schiefer: That's you for sure. Being able to sleep through something like that.
Em Schulz: Which like where your... Your bed flops onto another wall like [laughter] you're still asleep.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah. You're literally sideways now. And you're like, huh, what happened?
Em Schulz: I wonder if they just got like, really just like pissed drunk the night before...
Christine Schiefer: Maybe.
Em Schulz: And they were just like, so like, like unconscious, like they are...
Christine Schiefer: Like deep sleep.
Em Schulz: Having the best sleep of their life.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. They apparently woke up, which must be absolutely traumatizing. Woke up in this like, ruined ship, but they couldn't get outta their room like they were trapped.
Em Schulz: Well, yeah, because the door is facing the floor now, right?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah exactly. So they don't even know what happened. They can't get off the ship. They're just stuck in their room. So when they were finally rescued, they were apparently cold and wet, but uninjured...
Em Schulz: Aw.
Christine Schiefer: And in good spirits. [laughter] So that's nice.
Em Schulz: Thank God. Oh my God. I mean, hey, talk about a... Not trying to like, totally make fun of this but like think about the two truths and a lie you get for the rest of your life on that one.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, geez. For real. Like, my honeymoon was a little more dramatic than most people's. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Yeah, yeah. Well, I... Okay. At least they're unharmed, but that still had to be... I can't even imagine the... When you wake up and like your whole room is upside down and you're like on the ceiling...
Christine Schiefer: And you know...
Em Schulz: You have to think you survived a shipwreck. Like...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. You know, you're on a ship, like, you know what has happened. There's water in your...
Em Schulz: And it's silent because there's no one else.
Christine Schiefer: There's silent, there's water in your room. Like they were all wet. I mean, it must be terrifying. And I mean, of course we're... It's a silver lining, but unfortunately there would be no more happy endings for the remaining missing passengers.
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: As divers searched the submerged cabins. Umm, ultimately 32 people lost their lives in the disaster. Several people were discovered underwater on the lifeboat decks where they had been waiting for crew instructions that never came.
Em Schulz: [gasp] Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: Because the crew said, "Don't worry, we've got it handled." And they trusted them.
Em Schulz: So how many... How many people in total passed away?
Christine Schiefer: 32. Uh, 32 people lost their lives.
Em Schulz: And is that... Go ahead. Sorry.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, no, no, no.
Em Schulz: I was gonna say, do you know... I don't know if you know this, but does that include everyone, including the people that went missing with the suction under the water?
Christine Schiefer: Yes.
Em Schulz: Like... Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Yes.
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: So others that they found were waiting on one deck and were told to walk back through the sinking ship to another deck to access the remaining lifeboats, but while trying to navigate the treacherous halls, they were sucked into flooded elevator shafts by moving water.
Em Schulz: [gasp] Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: And were drowned.
Em Schulz: Oh my God. Oh my God. That's awful.
Christine Schiefer: One waiter who worked aboard the ship drowned while helping passengers escape, and yet another man died after giving up his spot on a lifeboat to someone else.
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: It's horrible. In the wake of this tragedy, uh, survivors had other problems to face, uh, because many of the crew came from disadvantaged circumstances and their families back home relied on these earnings they were making. And cruise staff are often underpaid, work long hours and remain on ships for weeks or months at a time. One crew member said they were all paid in cash and with no way to deposit the cash when they were on sea, they would keep the cash in their lockers until they went home. So they lost six months of savings in the sinking, and that was meant to feed their family back home.
Em Schulz: Oh my gosh.
Christine Schiefer: So following the sinking Giglio, locals were commended for their assistance in the rescue efforts. There were almost four times as many people aboard the ship as there were residents of the island. So it required monumental community effort to support the survivors after the rescue, like to bring them in, get them food, shelter, water, like heat. And so they were definitely commended for that. Also, Francesco, of course, maintained his innocence and insisted he simply fell into a lifeboat. Uh, he became, of course, a social pariah and was blamed...
Em Schulz: Sure.
Christine Schiefer: For the entire incident.
Em Schulz: Duh.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Costa and its parent company Carnival were happy to use him as a scapegoat, uh, despite their own failures during the incident. Umm, it also turned out there was no protocol which required the captain to have route changes approved. So technically Francesco hadn't even violated any rules when he diverted to... Toward the island. So like...
Em Schulz: Wild.
Christine Schiefer: He wasn't even breaking the rules at that point. Still he and several officers had carelessly endangered thousands of lives and then failed to react at all according to emergency standards. And the reality, which is the sad part of this, the extra sad part, is that the crew had plenty of time to get everybody safely off the ship.
Em Schulz: Everyone could have survived.
Christine Schiefer: Everyone could have survived, especially considering how close they were to shore. Not a single person needed to die, but the captain's failure to act, the lack of organization failed everyone on board. And even the people who did survive. Like, think about if you have kids with you, like how traumatizing, especially like you don't know if you're gonna survive. I mean, this is like a life-threatening like...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Terrorizing experience. So it's also been suggested that the presence of a non-paying passenger named Domnica Cemortan played a role in the captain's response, or lack thereof. This woman was a dancer that Francesco brought aboard because they were having an affair.
Em Schulz: Hmm. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: She was on the bridge during the sinking and was later caught on camera telling passengers to stop recording the incident because they weren't allowed to.
Em Schulz: What? Okay.
Christine Schiefer: In July 2013. So basically they're saying he had this woman on board they were having an affair.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: And maybe he didn't want it to leak that she... She was... Like he brought this woman on board without... You know, he brought basically his mistress aboard.
Em Schulz: Sure. He just didn't wanna get caught. He didn't wanna get caught.
Christine Schiefer: No he didn't wanna get caught. Exactly. In July 2013, five people were found guilty of manslaughter, negligence and wrecking. Roberto Ferrarini, the Costa crisis director received a two-year 10 months sentence. Several officers were also sentenced to serve prison time as well as Jacob the helmsmen. But Jacob fled Italy to Indonesia to escape prison time. Francesco insisted that Jacob's error was the cause for the crash, which like, I would argue that's one small piece of a much bigger issue.
Em Schulz: Yeah. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And... And once again, he blamed his lack of language skills, but he was giving commands in English and the ship's language was Italian. So...
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: That's a bullshit excuse. But a naval admiral testified that no matter how Jacob steered once the ship was on the course, that it was on... The one that the captain himself had set, it was doomed to crash no matter what they did. So basically...
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: His initial directive was the cause of the crash. Now get this. This was the worst cruise disaster since the 1912 sinking of the Titanic, and that...
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: Was almost exactly 100 years earlier.
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: And he had even said in that interview, I would hate to captain a ship like the Titanic where there's no technology to help avoid disaster.
Em Schulz: Right. Right.
Christine Schiefer: It's just wild to me.
Em Schulz: The irony.
Christine Schiefer: It is so ironic. So Francesco was found guilty and ultimately sentenced to 16 years in prison, which he is still serving in Rome.
Em Schulz: Good.
Christine Schiefer: And that is the story of the Costa Concordia.
Em Schulz: Wow, certainly a wild story very... I don't know what to say. Just sad.
Christine Schiefer: You know, it's... It was sad. And it's... It's horrible, because you really trust someone like a captain of a ship? I mean, you're... What else can you do as a passenger? Like, you trust the person in charge, who's supposed to have your safety at like, top priority.
Em Schulz: It's also... It could be really an easy transition into, umm like, talks about, like, conforming to authority, and like...
Christine Schiefer: Yes.
Em Schulz: Things like that. And I mean, like, just because someone's wearing a white coat doesn't know that they... I mean.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Em Schulz: I'm not trying to like poo-poo all doctors, but there... There is a... A significant amount of people who will just blindly follow whatever someone in authority has to say to you. And there have been a few times where... Even with my veins right now, it's like, I know, a doctor is telling me that things are wrong, but like, I'm gonna get a second opinion.
Christine Schiefer: Yes. Always.
Em Schulz: Because just our doctor. How do... How do I know that they actually paid attention that day in vein school? You know, like...
Christine Schiefer: Yes, totally and... And it's dangerous here to think like, on a ship, you don't really have a second opinion. You know, and if... If a ship... Ship is sinking, and you don't know what to do, 'cause you're a lay person, you look to the captain. Like, who else are you gonna look to?
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Like you don't even have a choice.
Em Schulz: Yeah, you don't have... There's no plan B. Either you listen to the captain, or maybe... Either you do or you don't. And either you survive, or you don't. So...
Christine Schiefer: Yes. And... And even if... Even if you take it upon yourself, you follow the people jumping off the ship, and then get sucked under and die.
Em Schulz: And you don't know... You don't know about water suction...
Christine Schiefer: No.
Em Schulz: And the tides and things like that. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: So it's like you're supposed to be guided to safety. And you were left to your own devices. It's very, very, very, very tragic. Umm...
Em Schulz: Just like how this could be an example on like, following authority. It... Which by the way, like, I was not trying to like victim blame there. It's was just an interesting...
Christine Schiefer: No, no.
Em Schulz: Example.
Christine Schiefer: I... I understand. Because it's like that's... That's when it becomes dangerous. You know, this, like, people in authority, that's when it can become so dangerous.
Em Schulz: It's also umm... I mean, I don't think it would surprise anyone here that listens to us. But it would also be a really interesting example to you know, the male fragility of pride and like...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Oh, you're a captain and you messed up and you're afraid to admit it, and how far are you willing to go before you ask for help? And apparently 32 deaths is still not the answer so...
Christine Schiefer: Isn't that horrible? It's like not one person...
Em Schulz: It's wild.
Christine Schiefer: Needed to die. Mmm.
Em Schulz: Mmm. Well, man, what a disappointment. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: I know. I know. It was...
Em Schulz: It was fun to start in good spirits with you, Christine.
Christine Schiefer: I know it always says isn't it? Umm, well, I will tell you this, uh...
Em Schulz: What?
Christine Schiefer: I have some fun, umm, little quiz. A... A true crime related personality quiz for you for our After Chat. Umm, for our...
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: What are we calling it? I meant to write in we... We polled up Patreon we got some great names. Umm, you and I liked the same ones I remember on Slack. Ah...
Em Schulz: Oh good.
Christine Schiefer: But I'm trying to remember...
Em Schulz: Uh, uh... Closing Time.
Christine Schiefer: Closing time.
Em Schulz: After Hours.
Christine Schiefer: After Hours. I think Last Call is good too...
Em Schulz: But Last Call, The Hangover or something. I think Last Call or After Hours.
Christine Schiefer: I like Last Call or... Because closing time just makes you think of that song and it'll get stuck in everyone's head.
Em Schulz: I think maybe After Hours 'cause it's an homage to our After Chats.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, okay. After Hours. Yes, I love it.
Em Schulz: Are you like Last... Oh, okay, great. Cool. Cool.
Christine Schiefer: I was just picturing it in my mind's eye. And That's Why We Drink, After Hours.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: I love it!
Em Schulz: Oh, great. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: We could do a little neon sign. After Hours.
Em Schulz: Zzz. Zzz.
Christine Schiefer: Pzzzzz. Pzzzzz. Zzz. Yeah. Okay, I love it After Hours. I'm writing in...
Em Schulz: And we will see...
Christine Schiefer: Here on Slack, After Hours it is. Even though nobody knows we're like even talking about it. Okay.
Em Schulz: Well, if you're on Patreon and you've been following our After Chats, apparently now we are turning that into After Hours. And probably because they are... Our after chats turned into multiple hours. [laughter] Umm, but if you'd like to go listen to this week's After Chat, umm, you can do that and...
Christine Schiefer: I will be giving Em a personality quiz about, uh, true crime.
Em Schulz: Excellent.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: And then I guess next week, it'll be my turn to prompt you with something.
Christine Schiefer: I can't wait.
Em Schulz: Okay, and...
Christine Schiefer: That's...
Em Schulz: Why...
Christine Schiefer: We...
Em Schulz: Drink.
