[intro music]
Christine Schiefer: You beat me to it, Emothy. My next...
Em Schulz: I...
Christine Schiefer: My first question was, what the hell is this?
[chuckle]
Em Schulz: It's been sitting in your home for like over a month now, I feel like, or something. I don't know. W-whenever you left for Sweden, I mailed it just about the day after, I think. No, even before that. I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: Really? Okay. Here's...
Em Schulz: I sent it, I sent it the day... How long ago was it when you texted me that your sister would be picking up your mail? 'Cause that's how long it's been there.
Christine Schiefer: Well, h-how long? Uh, so long that I have no memory of that conversation, but I guess...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: It doesn't mean much. I will say, I walked into my home and I found this box, um, Francisca crossed out the return address, wrote Em, then wrote, "Read the label. If you open early, Em will come and beat you up. No touch. Only open when recording with Em." And I was like, "Whatever... "
Em Schulz: Yeah. That was, um...
Christine Schiefer: "I don't know what this is." My sis... It was my sister's handwriting. I was like, "What the hell is going on?"
Em Schulz: That was definitely some artistic license on her end. Um, I never said...
Christine Schiefer: Oh was it. What a shock.
Em Schulz: I, I didn't fully threaten a beat-up. That would be too much of like a, like a flight and a hotel. That's, that's a lot to get to.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, what about a hotel? Oh, flight. [laughter]
Em Schulz: It would just, it would take a lot to get there. You know what I mean? So...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, wait. I have great news. I'm sorry, this is such a diversion, but it's so important. I have, uh, it's worth it for you to come beat me up because there is a new place, usually, uh, there's a specific place you stay and where Eva stays when you visit me, right?
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Uh, there's a new location opening up, uh, next door to that building or nearby it.
Em Schulz: Uh-oh. What is it?
Christine Schiefer: It's called...
Em Schulz: Well, you were saying...
[overlapping conversation]
Christine Schiefer: The Jimmy... What?
Em Schulz: Oh. I was gonna say, can you tell us?
Christine Schiefer: Jimmy... Shut up. [laughter] I need a clean take. Introducing Jimmy Buffett's Margaritaville and Resort coming to Newport, Kentucky, 2025. [laughter]
Em Schulz: [sigh] Well...
Christine Schiefer: Just for you.
Em Schulz: I'm pretty sure I'm gonna be the very first person moving in. And by moving in...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I mean I'm getting the penthouse, I'm never leaving.
Christine Schiefer: Eva just texted, "Shut up."
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So...
Christine Schiefer: I was so mad at first. I was like, "What a fucking stupid thing to put in my neighborhood." And now I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna embrace it and drink margaritas and have a great time.
Em Schulz: That honestly feels like, um, uh, uh, uh... I mean, that, that's a beacon. Everybody's gonna know where I'm staying when I visit you.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: So you might as as well tell everybody like it's...
Christine Schiefer: True. We might as well. [laughter]
Em Schulz: It's clear. Um...
Christine Schiefer: I... Okay. I was talking...
Em Schulz: But... Okay. I can't breathe.
Christine Schiefer: I was like bitching... I was bitching about it in the mountains of Austria because I was like, I cannot imagine, like I'm in this beautiful scenery and I just found out my brother kept cackling and I'm like, "What?" And he's like, "Guess what's coming to Newport?" And I was like, "What?" I was like, "It must be something bad." And he's like, "It's a Jimmy Buffett Margaritaville."
Em Schulz: No, it's something great.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: It's something great.
Christine Schiefer: And so, at first I was all pissy about it. I will say they, they did a bad, bad thing. And they did, uh, kick out...
Em Schulz: Why?
Christine Schiefer: A lot of low-income housing that was like very, uh, important to the area.
Em Schulz: Ohh.
Christine Schiefer: But honestly, which Jimmy Buffett Margaritaville probably hasn't? Or, or I don't even wanna put it on Jimmy, but you know, or James I should call him. But any...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Big resort thing I'm sure, uh, is not without its, uh, moral and ethical problems. So, you know, it's worth mentioning. But at this point, what am I gonna do? I mean, I guess I have to go drink a margarita. It's, uh, it's quite a development.
Em Schulz: I think...
Christine Schiefer: Literally. Um...
Em Schulz: I think I'm the only person who will ever say this, but I will make a plan to visit you just to check out the Jimmy Buffett Resort. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I don't think... I think you might not be the only... Like I think it sounds like you might be the only, and then as it happens, people are gonna be like, "Actually Em was onto something." Um...
Em Schulz: Like I'll have the nerve to be surprised by other people are trying to book out the very first night there. Like...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Like, Em, it's crazy, it has like two... Okay, 250 rooms. It says it's gonna have like multiple restaurants, like not just Margaritaville, like multiple restaurants. I don't know. It, it sounds crazy. I will say I was kind of bitching about it as I said, um, in the beautiful mountainscape of Austria. And my mother-in-law was like, "Yeah, imagine like in the morning in your bedroom like you open the blinds or... " Or, no, sorry, "At night you're like going to sleep, and this, there's just this flashing and it's like the parrot, like beaconing."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: The stupid neon parrot. And I'm like, "Oh, my God, that's my future. There's gonna be fucking like neon parrot flashing in my face." Uh...
Em Schulz: I... Have you... Did you ever go to a Cheeseburger in Paradise?
Christine Schiefer: I don't even know what that is.
Em Schulz: Oh. So...
Christine Schiefer: I mean, another song.
Em Schulz: So he had a... He is really also like o-of the business acumen, it seems, because he...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, for sure. He's all over it.
Em Schulz: He... He had a r... A restaurant chain for a long time called Cheeseburger in Paradise...
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: Where they sold cheeseburgers and the whole place was Paradise themed. It was amazing! And I feel like...
Christine Schiefer: That's like a very easy one-to-one, uh, business idea, I feel like. [laughter]
Em Schulz: It was like, it was like a no-brainer. And so...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: And by the way, it was delicious. And so, um...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: They used to have one at, uh, in my hometown and then I guess it didn't do so hot. Whoops. It's 'cause I left. I moved to Boston, they lost a lot of business.
Christine Schiefer: I was gonna say, yeah, you probably brought all the business away. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Well, so I wonder if they're gonna revive that and have a Cheeseburger in Paradise in that hotel. Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. I mean, probably, it said multiple restaurants. And I was like, "What possible multiple restaurants?" Okay. That makes sense.
Em Schulz: All of his, yeah. [chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Em Schulz: Margaritaville, they also... He has a, I think a bar brand named Margaritaville. Um...
Christine Schiefer: Oh yeah, that one, that one I know is for sure. 'Cause that's like the main chain. I've been to those before. Um...
Em Schulz: Ugh. Jimmy Buffet. Oh, my God.
Christine Schiefer: It's, it's gonna be something else. And it's like right on the river, so people are gonna flock to it. Um... Hmm.
Em Schulz: Christine, if one of the restaurants is not a Jimmy Buffett buffet...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I'll fucking lose my mind.
Christine Schiefer: If the breakfast at the Jimmy Buffett Resort is not a buffet style, they've done it so wrong. [laughter]
Em Schulz: If they don't call it the Jimmy Buffet, I'm through with this world.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I'm through.
Christine Schiefer: Wait... Then, you know what? Then, first of all, he's failed at business and life, if he does not come up with that. Second of all, we have succeeded and we're gonna move in next door [chuckle] and open up the Jimmy Buffet.
Em Schulz: Eva! Get me Jimmy Buffet. I need to talk to him. I need... Also, why isn't there like, uh, uh...
Christine Schiefer: Get James on the horn!
Em Schulz: Why on Bob's Burgers isn't there like a person named Jimmy Buffet to like make fun of Jimmy Buffett? Like he lives on the island...
Christine Schiefer: It's pretty good.
Em Schulz: You know... I mean there's Jimmy Pesto, but Jimmy Buffet is maybe, maybe that'd be a copyright situation.
Christine Schiefer: Maybe his like cousin or something. Yeah. Maybe it's copyright.
Em Schulz: Whoo...
Christine Schiefer: Maybe he has copyrighted Jimmy Buffet.
Em Schulz: Yeah, I'm about to.
Christine Schiefer: I know. [laughter]
Em Schulz: If he doesn't, I will.
Christine Schiefer: Should we look it up? The internet says, "Did you meet Jimmy Buffett?" I did not.
Em Schulz: I want to.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: No, I just wanna eat at his buffet. Um. Okay. Well, well, thank you for the update. I am buying ti... Flights in 2025 immediately.
Christine Schiefer: I knew it. I knew it. So anyway, I'm so sorry that was a di... I knew that was a diversion, but it was worth having. But that's, uh, that's the context of, you're not gonna... You are now gonna beat me up 'cause you have a place to stay. Um...
Em Schulz: Thank you. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: But you're not gonna beat me up 'cause I didn't open the box. I didn't even...
Em Schulz: I'm very...
Christine Schiefer: Open the tape.
Em Schulz: Proud of you for listening.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: So, um, this was a purchase. And I wanna preface, uh, I did get Eva the exact same thing, and I have already had her open...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, how special. I feel so special.
Em Schulz: You'll understand why.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Just kidding.
Em Schulz: You'll understand. Um, but I have already had her open it on purpose because I needed her to open hers before you. So you opening it during the show didn't ruin the surprise for her.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, okay.
Em Schulz: So, so Eva knows what's coming. Um...
Christine Schiefer: I need to...
Em Schulz: Why don't you just open her up?
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Let me get a... Uh, sorry. Elevator music. I need a knife.
Em Schulz: What a dusty, rusty nail to like...
Christine Schiefer: I need a rusty... [laughter]
Em Schulz: S-scrape it open.
Christine Schiefer: I need...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I need a rusty... [laughter]
Em Schulz: I know, you... Either you... Either you have a dull butter knife, a rusty nail...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Or a fucking box cutter, like...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Like a...
Christine Schiefer: I need a...
Em Schulz: Like a sharpest one.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I have a rusty staple that I found...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: In the trash. I'll be right back. Elevator music.
[ATWWD elevator music]
Christine Schiefer: I'm sorry.
Em Schulz: Wow. There were... As soon as...
Christine Schiefer: I'm sorry. My butt did it.
Em Schulz: As soon as Christine left, we had a lot of technical difficulties. So thank...
Christine Schiefer: Okay. No, it was, I threw myself back on the couch and I think what I did is I hit my mic and maybe a button on my Bluetooth keyboard and everything just went haywire. Um... So I...
Em Schulz: Well, we already... Thank God we already addressed that elevator mu... Like we're coming back from elevator music. So...
Christine Schiefer: Like... Like... Literally like what a perfect [laughter] segue to just shut down the show by accident.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Um, so I actually was very quick in retrieving my tool, uh, because I wanted to prove you wrong about fishing for a dirty staple in the carpet. Um, so instead I found, uh, uh, obviously a corkscrew, um, from Trader Joe's.
Em Schulz: A classic from Christine.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. I also have a lot of tools for my cricket that are sharp, but I feel like that might be more of a danger zone. So I left those alone.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Um... Okay. So I should... So I had a guess actually as to what this was, Em, and I...
Em Schulz: Okay. Right. Right.
Christine Schiefer: I'm assuming I'm wrong because you said you got Eva one too. Um...
Em Schulz: Yes...
Christine Schiefer: But what my assumption was that you got me one of those creepy dolls that got sent to our business manager by mistake.
Em Schulz: Oh, no. So this is a... Let's just put it this way, this... Take a guess after I tell you this.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: This is something I got from my hometown.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp] I know exactly what it is. [laughter] I'm so excited. [laughter] I thought a haunted doll was living in this box for like the last three weeks. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: No, it-it's more haunted to me.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, it's so much better and so much more cursed. [laughter] You... Oh my God! You guys, it's my very own trick or treating bag with opossums all over it. It's...
Em Schulz: It's a Ouija board possum bag. It's Sesame the Opossum.
Christine Schiefer: I know. It's, it's Sesame. Um, this is...
Em Schulz: Inside the bag is worse stuff.
Christine Schiefer: What is inside the bag? Shut up. [laughter] Okay. Wait, first of all, okay, this is stuffed opossum wearing flannel. Okay, let me just explain, real quick.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: We received a text from Em that said, th-they were at the... What is the possum store called? Possum-bilities?
Em Schulz: I... I'm gonna do a whole little spiel after you open your thing. It's called...
Christine Schiefer: Got you. Okay.
Em Schulz: Po... It's called Possum-bilities. And it is a possum...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Marsupial-themed store in my hometown...
Christine Schiefer: In your hometown. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Of Fredericksburg, Virginia.
Christine Schiefer: And Em went undercover, sort of, like, just like incognito. And it was like...
Em Schulz: I didn't have the heart to say I'm not a...
Christine Schiefer: Promptly recognized.
Em Schulz: I didn't have the heart to say I'm not a possum fan, but I did say two people that are very dear to me are massive possum fans. So...
Christine Schiefer: I have a serious question. How did my mouse get into this bag? Like my, like computer mouse?
Em Schulz: It's like you were meant for sleight of hand. You tricked yourself.
Christine Schiefer: I'm like so bad, [chuckle] but I sleight of hand myself. Like I impressed myself.
Em Schulz: I love that a mouse was in a bag of possums.
Christine Schiefer: I know. It's really weird.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, my gosh.
Em Schulz: So it's a bottle opener. Or no.
Christine Schiefer: What!
Em Schulz: A bottle... A bottle holder. It's a bottle holder.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. [gasp]
Em Schulz: And it looks like a possum hanging upside down.
Christine Schiefer: It's a hanging upside down poss... This is the funnest little gift box. Oh, they're surpri... More surprises. [gasp] A y'all means all possum stinker. They're...
[overlapping conversation]
Em Schulz: They're very queer-friendly. They're very queer-friendly there.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I love that. You know, um... Oh, here we go. A Ouija board that says, "Ahhh!" with possum hands...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: On the planchette. Come on. The possum ter... Em these are amazing. This store is kicking ass. Um, also this reminds me so much of the New Orleans store, obviously they have like a connection, right? Like don't they have like a partnership or something?
Em Schulz: Is it with Sesame or, or is that what you're talking about?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 'Cause, uh, 'cause Cocoally Vegan is the Sesame. Um...
Em Schulz: So, uh, apparently in the possum world, all the possums know each other. That's what I was told. So apparently they're friends with Sesame's owner.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I like how my mouse just wants to be part of it, you know?
Em Schulz: Yeah. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Um... [chuckle] This one says, "Transphobes ain't welcome in this here town," with a hedgehog. Um, I might give that to my brother. That's delightful. Um, this is probably my favorite that I'm gonna put on my computer immediately. It says, "Digging for tr... " It's a raccoon, it says, "Digging for trash and compliments."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I'm gonna put that on my computer immediately. Um, "Possum sucks" with little baby possums. This is...
Em Schulz: And then the...
Christine Schiefer: Just great.
Em Schulz: I... That's my favorite, the bottle holder, 'cause it looks...
Christine Schiefer: Is this...
Em Schulz: It's a hanging possum.
Christine Schiefer: It's... And it's like clearly crochet... Like hand crocheted. Like this is fucking gorgeous. Wait, I'm gonna put my Liquid Death in it.
Em Schulz: And the... And the, uh, possum in its flannel, the little plushy it got you, apparently on its back...
Christine Schiefer: I love the possum.
Em Schulz: It, it says some phrase on it, I think, on the...
Christine Schiefer: It says, "Anything is possumble." Some phrase. You mean...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: My new life advice to everyone, "Anything is possumble"?
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So... Okay. Here's the story behind all of this...
Christine Schiefer: Peep, peep.
Em Schulz: Oh, God. Do you know, I can't believe I spent money to ship all of this to you.
Christine Schiefer: The pain, the suffering you must be going through right now...
Em Schulz: The love.
Christine Schiefer: Is delightful to me.
Em Schulz: The love. And I...
Christine Schiefer: Honestly, the sacrifice. Also, look at this. Hold on.
Em Schulz: I mean, there she is.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I have such a... Like artists and creative people are the backbone of this country. And you can...
Em Schulz: So here's this...
Christine Schiefer: So you can put that on 2024... Christine 2024.
Em Schulz: Okay. [chuckle] Here's the story...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, there's one more thing.
Em Schulz: What? Oh.
[cackles]
Christine Schiefer: What the fuck is this print? Oh, my Lord.
Em Schulz: So...
Christine Schiefer: It's a Harry Potter possum.
Em Schulz: So there are, um... Uh...
[chuckle]
Em Schulz: Sorry, I'm trying to, I'm trying to get through all my pictures so I can explain better.
Christine Schiefer: I'm sorry, I keep derailing you.
Em Schulz: No, you're, you're unfortunately very fine and very good. Um, so basically I go to this... I go home to visit my family.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: And I... I'm trying to get to the spot so I can explain more about that, [chuckle] that print that I gave you. Um, so I go home, I already knew there was this possum store. I've discussed it before...
Christine Schiefer: Sure.
Em Schulz: And I... I'm walking around downtown. I didn't... It didn't even occur to me, I was walking past it. I was trying to like meet someone for a, like lunch, or I think I was getting a haircut. And I walked past it and I'm like, well, I've talked about this place on the show. And my, my step-sibling actually worked there at some point. And so I was like...
Christine Schiefer: Oh yeah.
Em Schulz: "I'm gonna go in and, and just see what this is all about." Oh my God, Christine has it perched like a parrot on her shoulder. Um...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, sure. It even has a little tail that I could like hook onto myself.
[chuckle]
Em Schulz: Oh my God. So, um, I go into this store and immediately, I, I'm telling you, I've never seen a... I've never seen something more possum-themed and like some... Like there were prints, there were, there were backpacks. I almost got you a whole backpack that just had a random possum just sitting on the backpack. Like I, uh...
Christine Schiefer: Oh yeah.
Em Schulz: There... I mean, there was just, there was...
Christine Schiefer: This is like what...
Em Schulz: I can't even begin to... There was so much art madness, everything...
Christine Schiefer: Eva and I tried to explain about the Cocoally. There are like probably similar situation where you walk in and it's like you lose your damn mind. Like you lose your mind.
Em Schulz: Uh, I think so. I... And I... So I go in. And within about a minute of being there, all of a sudden two people come up to me and they go, "Are you Em Schulz?"
[laughter]
Em Schulz: And I went, "Yes, you've caught me red-handed." And...
Christine Schiefer: "Nope. Not me." [laughter]
Em Schulz: So they were from Ohio and they came...
Christine Schiefer: Shut up.
Em Schulz: All the way to Fredericksburg, Virginia, to see this store that I'd mentioned on the show. And they happened to run into me in the store. And I was like...
Christine Schiefer: The d... The one time you ever went, by the way, like the one day...
Em Schulz: The one...
Christine Schiefer: You happen to be in town. I mean, that's weird timing.
Em Schulz: And so, I was like, "You really hit the jackpot if like I'm the reason that you came here and now I'm standing in front of you."
Christine Schiefer: That's pretty crazy.
Em Schulz: And so they watched me shop for you and Eva. Um, which...
Christine Schiefer: Oh my gosh.
Em Schulz: And as they asked for like a picture or they said... They said something like, "Oh... " Like, and they're very kind and sweet and... But it was obvious that they recognized me. And the storekeeper heard this, like overheard...
Christine Schiefer: Uh-oh.
Em Schulz: And came over and went, "I'm so sorry, but, uh, you know, who are you?" Which, humbled. But, um...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: No, I really... I... It... It's... That was a stupid joke. But, um, no, she asked who I was and I was like, "Oh, I... You know, I have a podcast." And then she goes, "Oh my God, are you from And That's Why We Drink?"
Christine Schiefer: [gasp]
Em Schulz: And I went, "Yeah." And then she said, "You're the reason so many people have been coming into this store." [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Shut up. See what you did, Em, you tried to be a hater, a possum hater. And did she... She probably didn't even know that you're not into the possums.
Em Schulz: She did not know. I mean, she... A-and, like, again, like I feel so weird about it now because she was so helpful and so kind. And as soon as she found out that like, you know, I'd already talked about the store on our podcast and, you know, I was in there, like, all she wanted to do was like, show me everything. She's like, "Look at all these bags. Look at what we've got. Look at this." Like, like, "Local artists made this thing." She was very lovely. She's so queer-friendly. I mean, as you know, by the stickers, they had like queer stuff everywhere. It was very much a safe haven. And, um, she was very lovely but she's...
Christine Schiefer: For everyone but people who don't like possums. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Or queer people.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Well, okay.
Em Schulz: So...
Christine Schiefer: Fair point, fair point.
Em Schulz: And so, uh... But anyway, she was very lovely and she said like, "Ever since you mentioned it on the show, we've noticed like a boost at our store and we didn't know where it was coming from. And a bunch of people kept mentioning your podcast when they'd come in." And so, um, all that to say that I, I asked if there was any way that she could like, you know, return some sort of favor to the listeners. And so, if you do go to Possum-bilities now, um, and if you mention our podcast, then you will get a 20% off discount on all the retail.
Christine Schiefer: Are you shitting me?
Em Schulz: So not on the art, because she has a bunch of local artists. I actually don't know their pronouns, I shouldn't be assuming, but they have a bunch of local artists. And, um... And so they just said like, "I can't give you a discount on that because I don't wanna take away from others, but for retail, 20% off if you mention And That's Why We Drink inside the store.
Christine Schiefer: That's delightful, Em, what a beautiful... This is the best sponsor we've ever gotten, and I didn't think it would be, uh, your doing. Um...
Em Schulz: Me either. And so... And I got to take a picture with the possum. So every... By the way, they have Marsupial Mondays. They have, um...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Where, where they... They always have a different possum in there that's like being, uh, taken care of or like healed back to health or something.
Christine Schiefer: Oh yeah, we're burying the lead. Em sends us a fucking photo holding a possum. And Eva, I... I don't think I've... Like, I've... I laughed so loud and hard because like of all three of us, the first one of us to hold a possum was not gonna be you. And then like, lo and behold, we get a photograph and it's Em holding a possum. And I'm like, "Em is in a weird sort of pur-purgatory right now where they don't know how to say, 'I don't really wanna touch this thing's tail.'" But is trying to be a good sport. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Luckily... Luckily we... I... Like, I... It didn't even occur to me, but because this cre... Little creature was like being taken care of and like healed back to health or something, or is... You know? I didn't have to hold the possum, I just gotta take a picture next to the possum. Well...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I thought you held it. Okay. Okay. Nevermind.
Em Schulz: I thought that's what was coming. And I don't know if like, maybe the storekeeper could tell, or if like that was just the rule that like I wouldn't, you know, hold the possum. I took a picture with the possum, it was very close to my ears. And, um, I...
Christine Schiefer: Em looks. [chuckle] unimpressed...
[overlapping conversation]
Em Schulz: I'm smiling for you, to be clear.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, you are, you are. Uh, it's a hilarious photo.
Em Schulz: I was trying to be... I was trying to be a good sport. It'll be on Instagram for you guys. I'll... I actually took a...
Christine Schiefer: Actually, you were like grinning in this photo.
Em Schulz: I knew how ridiculous the whole thing was.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, and you pet one, you pet one.
Em Schulz: I did pet him while he was sleeping. Um, it...
Christine Schiefer: But he's like sweet.
Em Schulz: He was very sweet. I, I am not a possum person, but that doesn't mean I can't see the character. And the possum was a very lovely moral being. Um, but I, I took a bunch of pictures of the whole store so we can post that to Instagram later. Um, and...
Christine Schiefer: Oh my Lord.
Em Schulz: Oh, I wanted to tell you about the prints that... The print that I got you. 'Cause I got Eva a different print.
Christine Schiefer: Oh yeah.
Em Schulz: So there are a bunch of different, um, possums, like local possums that they take care of and during, I think Marsupial Mondays, they bring a different one in every time for you to like pet and take a picture with. Um, so there's Sweetpea, the possum.
Christine Schiefer: Aww.
Em Schulz: There's Porkchop, which I got Eva...
Christine Schiefer: Aww.
Em Schulz: A picture of Porkchop. There's Panda, Nugget, Margot, Oliver, and I think there might be someone else. But the... I wanna see, the picture I gave you is of Panda, the possum.
Christine Schiefer: Aww. I love him.
Em Schulz: And I think Panda's the one I got to meet. I think that's Panda in the picture with me. Um...
Christine Schiefer: [gasp] Panda's so special.
Em Schulz: And they also... In case you're interested in going here, folks, they also have things like possum yoga. I'm not kidding. They also have...
Christine Schiefer: Stop it.
Em Schulz: They had a sign that said, "Meet Vega, the turkey vulture on a certain day." And then they also have...
Christine Schiefer: Yes.
Em Schulz: And then they have Hedge-U-cation and adoption events for hedgehogs. So...
Christine Schiefer: Like, like I swear, I mean, Em, wow, you really did a good thing.
Em Schulz: And they have... And, and they have the, the coolest art upstairs. It was all like, some of it was like critter-related and some wasn't, but it's very worth going. And, you know, especially in Fredericksburg, we don't have a lot of like unique like small stores and small businesses. Like we have some, but nothing like Possum-bilities?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Like support small businesses, this is the best way to do it.
Em Schulz: Anyway, I really went on a very long spiel, but, um, I, I did say, I was like, "If you thought you were getting business, now, wait until I do a whole spiel where I have my... "
[overlapping conversation]
Christine Schiefer: We do an unbox thing.
Em Schulz: "Co-host open presents." Yeah. [laughter] So... Anyway. And they're...
Christine Schiefer: I love her.
Em Schulz: They're very, very lovely people over there. Even the possums are lovely, despite me not totally being a fan of...
Christine Schiefer: Despite the eye roll.
Em Schulz: The... If it's not a dog or a cat, I'm usually not a fan. But the possums, they were very sweet. Um, so please go check them out and you know, they could use your business, so...
Christine Schiefer: I love my little possum...
Em Schulz: And Christine's rocking... That's... I, I think that is... Would you have a name for that one?
Christine Schiefer: Hmm. No. Does it have a name?
Em Schulz: No. I thought the pink flannel was a nice touch though. I thought that was very you.
Christine Schiefer: I love that. It reminds me of like Warped Tour.
Em Schulz: Yeah, that's what I thought.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Anyway...
Christine Schiefer: I'm gonna come up with a Warped Tour-related name.
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Hmm.
Em Schulz: We'll shop it.
Christine Schiefer: We'll shop it. Um, well...
Em Schulz: Anyway, that's why I drink and maybe why you drink.
Christine Schiefer: Whatever... Okay. That's definitely why I drink. But also, whatever happened to my haunted doll, that you sent to our business manager by mistake?
Em Schulz: You know, that's very interesting because they never even told us. They've still never even said anything, have they?
Christine Schiefer: Not to me!
Em Schulz: Yeah. I think they just kept it. Uh, maybe they thought it was a gift. Ooh. And now they're like afraid to say something.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Is that why they haven't been speaking to us for months?
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Just kidding.
Em Schulz: Right. Yeah, I don't know where that haunted doll went. I swear I bought it, and it definitely went to the wrong address.
Christine Schiefer: Wait. Okay. The plot thickens. Sorry, I'm like eating almond butter. The plot thickens. Eva says, "I literally asked for it." So Eva went to their office... By the way, b... This is like our acc... Like basically our financial people. Eva says, "I walked around their entire office looking for it and couldn't find it. She disappeared."
Em Schulz: She... Her two legs worked a little too well. She ran off.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, my gosh. Now I'm, I'm afraid she's like walking across the country for me! Looking for me.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: What was her name again?
Em Schulz: I remember sh... Well, I don't even remember, but I'm, I'm out. But I hope, if she's looking for one of us, it's not me.
Christine Schiefer: Hey, you did this. [laughter] Em's like, "I'm out."
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Oh. Well...
Christine Schiefer: Anyway.
Em Schulz: Anyway, with that, um, very long intro. Sorry, everybody. But if you're in the area or apparently from Ohio, people from Ohio were able to show up. So I think other people could probably drive...
Christine Schiefer: That's crazy, that coincidence of coming there and meeting you on the one day you happened to go into that store.
Em Schulz: Isn't that wild? It-it was...
Christine Schiefer: It's bizarre.
Em Schulz: But it's definitely... I mean, it was definitely worth it. It's not even like a small store. Like it is a two-floor, I think it used to be like a house or something. And the whole thing is like possum-themed. It's very wild. Um, anyway, please go check them out. And with that, I've got a story for you, Christine. This is a kind of an urban legend, it has some like actual roots to it though, so I don't really know where it fits. But, um, this is the story of La Lechuza, which is, um, the...
Christine Schiefer: That sounds so familiar.
Em Schulz: It sounds a lot to me like La Llorona. But it's La Lechuza...
Christine Schiefer: No, but I've heard, I've heard of La Lechuza I think.
Em Schulz: So, it... They're also known sometimes as the witch owl. Does that spark any?
Christine Schiefer: Ha. No, but I like it.
Em Schulz: Okay. Well...
Christine Schiefer: I'm immediately intrigued.
Em Schulz: Well, let's... [cracks soda can open] crack into it.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I'm sorry. Are we getting back to that? I tried to make it a thing for so long. Maybe that's what it was...
Em Schulz: It's only...
Christine Schiefer: I finally stopped and then you were like, "Now I'll do it."
Em Schulz: It's only when I happened to have a, an unopened can next to me, that seems to be the, the thing. But...
Christine Schiefer: You would sometimes be like, 'Let's get into it." And I was like, "Come on, Em."
Em Schulz: Well, I'm bringing it back temporarily, maybe permanently. Probably temporarily, 'cause I can't ever be consistent.
Christine Schiefer: We've been looking for some new, uh, merch slogans. No, I'm kidding. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Here's one. My beveragino Pellegrino is back for another episode. So...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: That's... I'm vetoing that immediately.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Why? I think you just don't like that you didn't create it, that's all.
Christine Schiefer: No. Sure. Let's go with that.
Em Schulz: So La Lechuza, uh, is from Mexican folklore. Um, she's also seen not just around Mexico, but in Southern California, the Rio Grande Valley of Texas. Um, she kinda apparently is popping around in a bunch of different spots. So, um, Lechuza is a Spanish word for owl. It is one of the many words for owl. Um...
Christine Schiefer: Maybe that's why I know it. Maybe I just have too many bird books.
Em Schulz: Oh. I didn't think of that.
Christine Schiefer: Like literally. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: What's the... What's a group of owls?
Christine Schiefer: A hootenanny. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: That's hysterical. Um...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Thank you. I don't know.
Em Schulz: A hoot-enanny.
Christine Schiefer: Didn't we talk about this already?
Em Schulz: Not about owls, I don't think.
Christine Schiefer: Ooh! A parliament!
Em Schulz: Oh my God. So regal. Oh my God. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Wow. So wise and so regal.
Em Schulz: Okay...
Christine Schiefer: I feel like that's probably they're giving themselves a little too much credit.
Em Schulz: Oh, because they're so wise?
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: A hootenanny's hysterical. We have to bring that...
Christine Schiefer: Thank you. Let's make a petition. [laughter]
Em Schulz: So, uh, Lechuza is, uh, one of the Spanish words for owl, but cultures all over have some sort of like owl-themed omen to, you know, their culture. Um...
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: So owls are often seen as like a dark creature or a mysterious creature, or some sort of threatening omen. It's seen in the Bible, it's seen in Aztec and Mayan culture. It's seen in pre-Incan civilizations. It's seen in...
Christine Schiefer: Ooh.
Em Schulz: Ancient Greece and ancient Rome. It's seen in China, Egypt, Argentina, Korea. I mean, it's... There's...
Christine Schiefer: Wow.
Em Schulz: Everywhere seems to have something about owls. Um, in Mexican lore, uh, barn owls are often most associated with the devil and evil magic.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: And alle... Allegedly, barn owls and cats, I assume it's probably just all owls, but especially barn owls and cats can actually be witches who have made deals with the devil. Um...
Christine Schiefer: That's so sad for them, but... Okay.
Em Schulz: I don't... Imagine just being a fucking cat and you're like, "Yo, what... "
Christine Schiefer: Just like, "Leave me alone."
[laughter]
Em Schulz: It's like, "It's not my fault." Um, so although lechuza literally means owl, uh, La Lechuza is a specific known figure. Sometimes she's considered a cryptid or an urban legend, but she does have a long history with Indigenous roots. So this is again, where I like tread lightly, 'cause you know there's only...
Christine Schiefer: Hmm.
Em Schulz: I don't... I don't know where it ends and where the other begins. But...
Christine Schiefer: Right. Yeah.
Em Schulz: You know? So, in more of the lore side of things, La Lechuza is often a barn owl, sometimes just a general owl. I've heard that it's either a jet black owl, or a pure white owl. So it-it seems like there's quite a spectrum here, [laughter] it's a bird? I even saw on one source that sometimes it's even an eagle in rare occasions.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, come on.
Em Schulz: Like, I like how in rare occasions it's a rarer bird, but... Okay. Um...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So, uh, often a barn owl has very pale feathers and huge dark eyes, and she can be 100% an owl, or she can be a hybrid of an owl and a woman with an owl's body and a woman's face with long white hair.
Christine Schiefer: Ooh. Spooky.
Em Schulz: She's known to be very large. Uh, sometimes she's seven feet tall with a 15-foot wingspan. So she's a big girl.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. Geez.
Em Schulz: And sometimes she can be, uh... I keep s... I'm gonna say the word "sometimes" probably the most in my life today, because...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: There's so...
Christine Schiefer: You can say, wait, here try this, occasionally, every now and then.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Thank you. Thank you. I really, I was that kid who actually brought a thesaurus to class because I just would just lean into one word and ride that high.
Christine Schiefer: I remember when people would figure out that you could do, uh, right-click like synonyms on Microsoft Word. And I remember there was one girl...
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: Who had to be called out because she would right... She would like just right-click and then find like the most obscure word. And our teacher would be like, "Half the time that's not even like what you're saying, you're just picking the longest word." [laughter]
Em Schulz: She... She pulled the Joey Tribbiani, uh, where he...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which... [laughter]? She, she's like, "This sounds smart."
Em Schulz: It's... He said something in like a... He was like writing a letter and he was trying to say like, "My heart's very full." And he said like, "I have a, an oversaturated aortic pump" or something crazy.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like that. And our teacher was like, "I know you're not writing this. I know that's not a word you know." And she's like...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: "Yes, it is."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Uh...
Em Schulz: Well, uh, so, insert sometimes, every now and then, occasionally.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Uh, just based on different ver... Like regions versions of the story, La Lechuza can sometimes be, um, can be a full owl, of any kind apparently. It can be a hybrid between a man... Or a woman and an owl. Sometimes they actually say that La Lechuza is actually a shapeshifter who switches between human during the day and an owl at night.
Christine Schiefer: That would explain some of the mix-ups or the confusion, I guess.
Em Schulz: Yeah, I think s... I mean, that of what doesn't logically make full sense, it's still...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: It's like, oh, they can walk around during the day unassuming, and then at night, you know, they...
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Makes sense. She's also known as the witch owl, but it sounds like that is not the phrase of choice because it implies that you can spot this person because of their like witchy stereotype. Because...
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: The... So La Lechuza is known to be, for the most part, an older-looking woman, um, and kind of just has some, like, whatever the trope of a witch, features. Um...
Christine Schiefer: Warts.
Em Schulz: W-warts, green skin. I don't know. I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: Cool. [laughter]
Em Schulz: I, I... It... The... They don't actually say she has green skin. I'm going off of the Wicked Witch of the West. Um, but they say that she... By calling her a witch owl, it implies that you can guess who La Lechuza is in her human form because she looks like a witch. But it's more...
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: It's not about her looks, it's more about like her witchy capabilities and her magical powers and her... The gifts that she has. So anyone could be La Lechuza. It doesn't matter if she looks like a witch or not. But... And to say...
Christine Schiefer: Ooh.
Em Schulz: And to say which owl implies that you could clock them, when you can't.
Christine Schiefer: I see, I see. But you don't even know. Nice try.
Em Schulz: Exactly. So even though she's often described as an older woman, anyone could be La Lechuza and just... It doesn't have to be a stereotype of the witch...
Christine Schiefer: You hear that, kids? Anything is possible.
Em Schulz: You mean possumble.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God. Wait a second, Em. The [laughter] anything is possumble. You're so right, Em...
Em Schulz: Uh...
Christine Schiefer: I'm so glad that you have now made that motto your life's work.
Em Schulz: Uh, uh... Well...
Christine Schiefer: Thank you.
Em Schulz: Anything for a small business, my friends.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So instead it's more that, um, La Lechuza sometimes isn't even an actual owl but can... Uh, this is just another theory is that it's, La Lechuza is not an owl but can possess owls to do her bidding.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Um, so it's kind of in the territory of like familiars.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah.
Em Schulz: And it's kind of in the territory of like an astral travel or something, because in this version, La Lechuza just kind of lays down and meditates, um, until she is able to spiritually take over the owl, while her body...
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Her physical body lays somewhere.
Christine Schiefer: That's very cool. And so... But it's like any owl, right? It's not like a, a familiar where she has like one owl. It's like...
Em Schulz: Exactly. It was... It's...
Christine Schiefer: She's gotta find an owl.
Em Schulz: The... It sounds like she can take over any owl, but maybe she's like walking in the woods one day and sees one she likes and she's like, "That's the one I'm gonna take over every time."
Christine Schiefer: "You're coming with me."
Em Schulz: So then maybe it becomes her familiar. But I don't know like if... I don't know how animal consent works in that way. I... I... Look, I'm digging too hard into it. But...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Wow.
Em Schulz: I, I was just like, "Could the owl... "
Christine Schiefer: You keep going.
Em Schulz: "Is the owl chill with this?" I don't know. In many stories, La Lechuza is known to be very vengeful, very dangerous. Um, but different regions all have different backstories for her. So she is often seen as a scorned woman turned bad. Um, some say she was wrongfully blamed for a crime in her town. And the way that her community responded was that they killed her child.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. What?
Em Schulz: As... So I don't know what crime she committed...
Christine Schiefer: Jesus.
Em Schulz: But apparently, it was enough for them to wanna hurt her kid. And so because of that, one of her, you know, uh, trademarks now is that she goes after other people's children.
Christine Schiefer: Ohh.
Em Schulz: She's especially known to take children who are out late when they're not supposed to be, or she can even try to draw them out so she can take the child for herself. Um, one story is that La Lechuza sold her soul to the devil for some magical power, which she now uses to take control of the townspeople. And another version, she was actually a good magical healer, but because witchcraft was so associated with devil worship, she ended up being punished anyway, even though she was a good person.
Christine Schiefer: Hmm.
Em Schulz: And because of that, the town came together to try to kill her, and now she comes back as an owl to get revenge. In a different version, her child was killed by a drunk driver. Um...
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: And so, this, I think there's probably some... This feels like a more modern version. Uh...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, already.
Em Schulz: Uh, because I think in these areas where this is the story, people will say, "Don't drive drunk or La Lechuza will come find you." So it's...
Christine Schiefer: I see. I mean, that's, that's actually a very good like moral of the story. Like, I'll go with that version if it, if it does any good, you know?
Em Schulz: Yeah. Yeah. They say, um, that her kid was killed by a drunk driver. And so now as an owl at night, she flies between different bars and lurks outside waiting for drunk people, so she can attack them or something like that.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Um, La Lechuza was also said to be drawn to negative emotions, especially anger. So if you are...
Christine Schiefer: Uh-oh.
Em Schulz: In a negative headspace, she is more likely to come find you. She will apparently lurk between like houses to see if there's any like arguments going on in the house, or if she hears yelling, she will approach. Allegedly, if she goes to a house and hears a couple fighting, if the couple comes outside at all during their spat before they've made up, she will pick them up and carry them back to her lair. Which, like, I don't even know what this lair looks like. Is it a nest?
Christine Schiefer: Whoa!
Em Schulz: Uh... I, I don't...
Christine Schiefer: Uh, I like hate to make this as a connection, but I just can't help notice it. The story of the staircase murder where the woman was... Where the, the defense was that, an owl...
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: Attacked her and it got the husband off on the charge.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: I don't know, it's just interesting. Um...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Hmm. Weird.
Em Schulz: Interesting.
Christine Schiefer: Hmm. Just a thought.
Em Schulz: I don't know where to go from there, but I wanna think about it harder.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: But I also have a podcast to record, so I can't be silent like I want to be...
Christine Schiefer: It's the never-ending problem, you know?
Em Schulz: With my thoughts. Um, something to chew on after we're done recording.
Christine Schiefer: Something to chew on.
Em Schulz: Uh, if you want to get her attention, apparently whistling will summon her. Which it sounds like you just have to be a drunk driver, an unattended child or a yeller. But...
Christine Schiefer: Or mad. Yeah. [laughter]
Em Schulz: But also if you wanna get her attention and none of those things work, you can whistle, that usually summons her. Especially...
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: If it's at midnight and you whistle three times.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. Interesting.
Em Schulz: Whistling has been said to be an omen, like, uh, way before this. So it's not much of a surprise that whistling is involved. Many cultures believe that nighttime whistling summons spirits.
Christine Schiefer: Ooh.
Em Schulz: Um, I know in like mountainous areas, a lot of people that have lore say like, "Don't, don't whistle in the woods." Um, also different regions think that whistling can summon the devil. It can lure ghosts to follow you home. It can attract bad luck.
Christine Schiefer: Eugh.
Em Schulz: Um, some people have said if you whistle at night, then like your house can burn down or you lose all your money or someone's gonna get sick.
Christine Schiefer: Geez. Why doesn't anyone warn me about this? I mean, I can't really whistle, so I'm, I'm fine. But nobody warned me of that.
Em Schulz: It's a gift that I don't know how to whistle, 'cause I'd get myself into some trouble.
Christine Schiefer: Me too. I'm like, thank goodness.
Em Schulz: I had a teacher in seventh grade, that man could whistle, like it was no one's business.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I still think about it.
Christine Schiefer: It's weird 'cause he, he would come to school covered in feathers and it looked like he lived in a lair of an owl.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I don't know how like it's happening.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I didn't particularly like him, which was so weird 'cause he was like the popular teacher. 'Cause he was like 20...
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: He was 23. He looked like a lax bro. And he probably was five years before...
Christine Schiefer: But I never liked the popular teacher, 'cause I was like, "Oh God, they think they're so cool."
Em Schulz: He knew he was cool. He knew he was the favorite. Especially amongst like all like, like the lax bro seventh graders, like...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: They all thought he was so cool. And I did not really care for him at all. But, um, man, he could whistle.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Man, he could whistle. I still think about it.
Christine Schiefer: [laughter] But that whistle.
Em Schulz: He... Like his whistles had like a vibrato to it. And he could, like, he, he had a wide range. Uh, he could whistle anything. I was just amazed.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Wow.
Em Schulz: I still think about it. It's like 20 years later. Um...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I can tell.
Em Schulz: And he... [chuckle] Like, yeah, I'll never be the whistler like him. So, um, some believe that whistling, uh, uh, in some way is dangerous if you do it at night. And a lot of people think that whistling can be a general warning of like an impending disaster, which we covered this in, um, the Haunted Mines episode where people would hear whistling right before a mine would collapse, or explode.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp] Oh. Ooh, that just gave me the creeps. And I don't...
Em Schulz: You know... Right.
Christine Schiefer: Whistle reminds me of interestingly, like, kind of going off that is, right before an explosion or a bomb, like that whistle sound.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Like a, a firework or like a dro...
Em Schulz: Oh, yeah.
Christine Schiefer: A dropping bomb. Like that kind of like, Fooooo...
Em Schulz: Foooo.
Christine Schiefer: Whistle sound.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Like that to me, like makes me tense up, like something's gonna [poohh] Go boom. You know? So I wonder if that has anything to do with like the lore of whistling. I don't know.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm. No, that's interesting. 'Cause that is... That does imply impending doom. I mean...
Christine Schiefer: Right?
Em Schulz: That's what the Wile E. Coyote sounded like falling off the cliff.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, true. Yeah. True.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Yeah, that's interesting. I wonder if, if people know that connection or if we're just...
Christine Schiefer: Something to chew on, again.
Em Schulz: Something to chew on. Are we discovering a connection? I like to think we're capable of that.
Christine Schiefer: I like to think so.
Em Schulz: Um, some people also believe that La Lechuza can also control the weather or create warning, or create or warn people of storms, which again brings us to one of our very first Rituals episodes...
Christine Schiefer: Uh-huh.
Em Schulz: "May she rest in peace" Rituals.
Christine Schiefer: RIP. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Um, that we talked about weather witches and how witches...
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: Were known to control the weather. So it's interesting that this new witch owl has the same type of...
Christine Schiefer: That's a very interesting connection.
Em Schulz: One story of La Lechuza controlling, not controlling the weather, but warning of it. Uh, this is like, I guess it's not very modern... It's not very modern now 'cause it's 2023, but to me it feels very like up-and-coming news. But this was in the...
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: The '90s, early 2000s. Uh, because a 9-year-old was at home watching SpongeBob, which that's the, the first...
Christine Schiefer: Uh-oh. It feels very modern to me too. We're old. [laughter]
Em Schulz: I've never heard a more current storyline to a haunted story I cover...
Christine Schiefer: To an urban legend. Yeah.
Em Schulz: So 9-year-old's at home watching SpongeBob. They...
Christine Schiefer: Like you just referenced Wile E. Coyote and now it's like...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: SpongeBob.
Em Schulz: I'm on a roll.
Christine Schiefer: Wow.
Em Schulz: So, uh, watching SpongeBob and they heard a noise outside and thought it was their dad coming home, so they go outside to like, you know, see what's going on. And, goes outside and on their picnic table sees this owl staring at 'em.
Christine Schiefer: Eugh.
Em Schulz: And for like a very long time, like several minutes long and then the owl flies away. Um, this kid thought that maybe the bird was there as a warning. Um, they told their grandma about it and their grandma freaked out and thought like, "Oh, that's La Lechuza."
Christine Schiefer: It's... Yeah.
Em Schulz: And the kid was like, "Oh, maybe it was a warning 'cause it didn't hurt me." Um, very soon after this though, a storm came in and damaged everything, but the house and the picnic table the owl was sitting on.
Christine Schiefer: Ohh.
Em Schulz: Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So while being associated with whistling, um, just to get back to that, La Lechuza said to try and trick people by whistling first, so that maybe they'll whistle back to her. So if...
Christine Schiefer: "Gasp." Ooh.
Em Schulz: Which sounds very similar to our least favorite thing in the world, when a spirit is mimicking someone's voice you recognize.
Christine Schiefer: Yep. Horrible, Em. Horrible.
Em Schulz: Whoo. I hate it. Um...
Christine Schiefer: Gives me chills.
Em Schulz: So if you ever hear someone whistling at night and the song doesn't finish, it might be a trap, if you're... If you think you need to be the one to finish off the song.
Christine Schiefer: And then I'll go... [blows into mic]
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: 'Cause I can't whistle, and they'll be like, "Forget it."
Em Schulz: Yeah. Do you think the whistling has to sound like a whistle or do you think the effort of wanting to whistle is what summons her?
Christine Schiefer: How tone-deaf can you be like to participate, you know? Yeah. Like, does it need to sound good? I don't know.
Em Schulz: Like, am I safe or am... Is it if I wanted to whistle and I'm just manifesting my... Like I'm just putting in the, the gusto...
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: To try and whistle, am I now not safe? Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Is it just the air? [blows into mic]
Em Schulz: Do you need the high pitch or you just need someone wanting the high pitch?
Christine Schiefer: Hmm. That's an excellent question.
Em Schulz: I'll talk to her later. So even...
Christine Schiefer: Somethin' to chew on.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Even if there's, uh, not any whistling nearby, or like we said earlier, unattended children or negative emotions, La Lechuza can still attack people. It doesn't have to be one of those three things that happens. Um, she will go after whoever she's feeling vengeful for, whoever she... Maybe if she's really child hungry, um... She'll...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, God.
Em Schulz: I mean, she's been known to like try to go after babies that, you know, just by grabbing them up with her talons.
Christine Schiefer: Eugh.
Em Schulz: And I don't know what she does with people after she's grabbed them. Like, is this just kind of like a game of catch and she's just...
Christine Schiefer: Right. Like they go to the lair and then what? Like... She's like...
Em Schulz: She'll like play cards? Like what happens?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. [laughter]
Em Schulz: She will not only whistle to try to make people finish the whistle and thus accidentally summon her, but she'll also make baby crying sounds so people leave their homes to investigate.
Christine Schiefer: Hmm. That's bad. That's not fair.
Em Schulz: And if for some reason you hear the crying, but you don't see her, then maybe she wasn't there to hurt you, but she was still there to forewarn you of imminent doom.
Christine Schiefer: This reminds me of a, a banshee a little bit. It's like...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Do we like her? Do we not like her? Is she mean or is she just warning us? You know?
Em Schulz: She...
Christine Schiefer: I don't know.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Is she a girl boss? Is she just lonely?
Christine Schiefer: Right, right.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Um...
Christine Schiefer: Is she just lone... Is she a girl boss or is she just lonely? A memoir, by Christine Schiefer.
Em Schulz: You could be a, a lonely girl boss. Yeah. Totally.
Christine Schiefer: True.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: She, um...
Christine Schiefer: All of the above.
Em Schulz: She's, uh... Yeah. I don't know. Again, uh, something else to ask her later when I... When we stop recording.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, great. When you guys are playing cards in the lair.
Em Schulz: I'll, I'll whistle to her and she'll give me a free ride over to her lair. [chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: That's nice.
Em Schulz: Um, so she will pretend to cry so that people will come out so she can grab them. Um...
Christine Schiefer: Ugh.
Em Schulz: But like I said, if you only hear her and don't see her, it might just be a pro... Like a... Uh, some sort of omen. And if you dream of her, that's another omen where she might be warning you about a death coming your way. Uh, if La Lechuza wants to be particularly aggressive with somebody, she will literally fly after cars. And then...
Christine Schiefer: Oh no.
Em Schulz: Even, I don't know if it's telepathically or magically, but she will mess with people's cars, so that way they have to pull over. She will swoop in front of your car in owl will form to make you swerve off the road. Um, but she will do what she can to make you be alone on a dark road at night. So if a bird has ever done this to you, it might be La Lechuza.
Christine Schiefer: Uh-oh.
Em Schulz: One night there were three women who were driving when a massive owl swooped in in front of their car, circled the car, and did it again and kept swooping in front of their car until they finally pulled over.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my.
Em Schulz: And the woman, uh, which I feel like maybe the bird was just like into the light or something. I don't know. Like, but kept circling this car.
Christine Schiefer: Weird.
Em Schulz: They pull over, and when... And the car ended up stalling out. Um, basically they just sat there and they n... Did not get out of their car. I don't know if they'd heard the story or they were just afraid to get out of their car on a dark road. But only once the owl flew away did the car start itself again, and they were able to drive home. And...
Christine Schiefer: Oh. Like what was the problem? Like what did it... Like, were, were they...
Em Schulz: I think maybe it was hoping they would get out of the car to investigate and then could grab them.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. Ooh.
Em Schulz: But because they stayed inside, the bird gave up and the car started again.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. I wonder if, um, they were drunk driving, 'cause that seems to be one of her pet peeves.
Em Schulz: Interesting. Interesting. Another time there was a couple driving at night and their windshield wipers turned on by themselves. One guy who'd heard the story said, "Oh, it must be La Lechuza." And as he said that, the couple drove by a big owl sitting on the road staring at them.
Christine Schiefer: Eugh.
Em Schulz: Uh, if you don't get out of your car, she can't get you, just like those three women. But in other places, uh, she might try to fight her way to you if she thinks that she can still get into an entrance. So she's been known to flap her wings and scratch at doors to get inside. So a lot of people have said, "If you see unknown scratches on your front door, that means La Lechuza was there trying to get in."
Christine Schiefer: Eugh.
Em Schulz: Which is like somehow a nicer story to me than like someone was breaking into your home. Um...
Christine Schiefer: Exactly. Like it could be something so much worse scratching your door.
Em Schulz: This is why, um... Like this is not a sponsor, but this is why Ring doorbells are probably important.
Christine Schiefer: I was about to say, now that we have these video doorbells, man, uh, I hope we catch that little, little chickadee.
Em Schulz: Yeah. If there's a, anyone has a Ring doorbell with footage of an owl trying to break into your house, you might be onto something.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: If there are windows... So she can't get through the front door. There have been times where she's tried to break in through windows, um, and often does this apparently at nurseries to try to get babies.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp] Ew. She needs to get it together.
Em Schulz: I've also heard specifically, um, that it is unbaptized babies.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, come on.
Em Schulz: I know. Always gotta bring them in. Don't bring me into this.
Christine Schiefer: Why'd you gotta bring that in? Don't bring Em into this. [laughter]
Em Schulz: I didn't do anything.
Christine Schiefer: Early on, I guess.
Em Schulz: So, uh, there are many stories of enormous owls breaking into closed windows to scratch up babies because they're trying to scoop up the baby and can't grab them and k-keep scratching them.
Christine Schiefer: It's so horrifying.
Em Schulz: So how do you get rid of La Lechuza if you see her? Like... And this is where I tell you some...
Christine Schiefer: Baptize your baby.
Em Schulz: That's one. Don't drink, don't yell, don't whistle. It sounds like we've already figured this out.
Christine Schiefer: I'm screwed!
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I feel pretty safe. I can't whistle. I don't have a baby. I don't drink. I've... I don't...
Christine Schiefer: Damn, Em. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Yell too often unless it's about like Jersey Shore. Um...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It's not fair.
Em Schulz: I'm pretty free from her. I think we're okay. Um, but unfortunately, if you are trying to get rid of her, this is where I warn you, that apparently anything you do to her, she does to you. And it actually sounds worse than that. It sounds like anything you do to her is a reason for her to just kill you on site. So...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, cool.
Em Schulz: There are accounts of people trying to shoot at her, but she deflects bullets. So fun fact, she's bulletproof. Um...
Christine Schiefer: Great.
Em Schulz: And then the people who shot at her died the next day, like out of nowhere. So sounds like she won. Um...
Christine Schiefer: Uh-huh. That sounds like a bad trade-off.
Em Schulz: There's another story of a guy named Mr. Kantu who, uh, saw an owl following his daughter and he thought that she might be bewitched. He really took a lot of leaps there with his thinking...
Christine Schiefer: The owl, not his daughter, right?
Em Schulz: He thought h-his daughter might be bewitched...
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: Because an owl was following her.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, oh.
Em Schulz: Which like... It's okay.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Sure.
Em Schulz: Okay. So it sounds like this guy was just looking to shoot at something. Because he tried...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Shooting at the owl after that. He thought maybe the owl was bewitching his kid, tried shooting at the owl to get this spell broken. And he used a bullet, which this is some dedication, he carved a cross into the bullet. Okay? Because he thought...
Christine Schiefer: How long was this owl following his daughter?
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Apparently long enough he could cr... Like carve a whole cross in a bullet...
Christine Schiefer: Whittle his own little b-bullet. [laughter]
Em Schulz: And then to say, "Fuck you, witchcraft," he ended up trying to shoot this owl.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp]
Em Schulz: Um, and he hit the owl in the wing and brought it home.
Christine Schiefer: No.
Em Schulz: Uh... And then when he got home, he saw that the owl had two braids of human hair d... Running down its back. And its beak was actually a human nose. First of all...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I'm sorry. [laughter]
Em Schulz: First of of all, why do you have to...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Why do you have to catch an owl to be able to see that it doesn't have a fucking beak? Like...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: That it has like braids, like pigtails? I mean, come on.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: This fucking owl has pigtails and he's like, "Sorry. I shot at it before I realized."
[chuckle]
Em Schulz: I feel like... I...
Christine Schiefer: I can't do this. This is like one of those bad taxidermy accounts you see where like they just s... Glue on some human hair.
Em Schulz: It's like an Ec... Etsy furby project.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. [laughter] It's like those creepy models.
Em Schulz: I, I mean, I feel like I could be on the other side of like a football stadium and notice if a bird had a human nose and pigtails.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: But he just had to be sure.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Some, somebody draw a picture of that, please.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Oh, that's good. I like it.
Em Schulz: Someone do a, a loose recreation of like... Someone just like throw some pigtails onto a Google image, like stock photo of an owl.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: And a human nose, by the way.
Christine Schiefer: It literally sounds like that is like, "We love the moon," uh, guys.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: What? What?
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: We love the moon.
Em Schulz: That doesn't help. That doesn't make it more understandable.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: What are you talking about?
Christine Schiefer: Oh, fine. I'll say it in a language you understand. Those Quiznos monkey things.
Em Schulz: Oh! The Quiznos monkey things. Okay. You should have said that...
Christine Schiefer: But they were a thing before Quiznos decided to s... Before they decided to sell out to Quiznos, but they would sing, they would play banjo and go, "We like the moon, because it's very close to us."
Em Schulz: Oh...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Immediately, I, I know so much more about what you're talking... Okay. I didn't know. And all you... All I saw was you go, "We love the moon." And I was like, "That's a troll."
[laughter]
Em Schulz: That's a... That's...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: That's a crazed person in the middle of the night.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Okay. I, I'm on board.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Oh, God.
Em Schulz: Um... Okay. Anyway, this, this little birdie's got two braids.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Braids... The two braids are crazy town.
Em Schulz: And a human nose. Which begs to the... The question. I mean, at this point, if it's... She's got a whole hairdo going on.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Is her human nose, like, is there like a, a little ring in there? She's got a septum? Like...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. [chuckle] Is that why she can whistle so well?
Em Schulz: She just goes, Me, me, me, me.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Like, hole from the nostril.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Also, like, who braided her hair? I wanna know.
Em Schulz: Yeah. That's the magic. That's the real magic.
Christine Schiefer: Who the fuck braided that hair? 'Cause I doubt that her little talons could figure that out.
Em Schulz: I don't think any bird's wings could figure that out. Which means it had to have been that girl. He was... She was probably following the girl home who did her damn hair.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, shit. They were having a slumber party. Okay. It makes a lot more sense.
Em Schulz: And then she gets shot by her dad, her friend's dad. Jesus.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Oops! [laughter]
Em Schulz: Uh, so he shoots the bird down, hurts its wing, drags it home, ties the owl to a tree out back.
Christine Schiefer: Ugh!
Em Schulz: And then, and then the next morning, the owl's gone. And so he's like, "What the fuck happened?" And the neighbors say that other owls helped free it. Which I'm wondering, are those like her girlies? Like is that the squad? And, uh, do they also have braids? Like...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. What... And noses. Like, are they the ones who braid... Do they have fingers to undo the rope and also braid her hair? Like, tell me what's happening. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Yeah. Like apparently just a bunch of other birds. You know who, who I'm envisioning, Birdie from McDonald's. Remember like Ronald McDonald's old like friend group?
Christine Schiefer: Oh, yeah. Wait, so this is like a whole parliament, I'm sorry, a whole hootenanny of birds with noses and pigtails. Like, just...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Like, what is that... What... Wha... Okay.
Em Schulz: They saw one, one of their homegirls was in trouble, so they came, came flying down together, they set her free.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God.
Em Schulz: Um, and then guess what? The daughter died a few days later.
Christine Schiefer: What!
Em Schulz: The one that the bird was following. And so...
Christine Schiefer: That's horrible.
Em Schulz: So after all this, the dad...
Christine Schiefer: She didn't even do it.
Em Schulz: So get this, this is the most fucking, like, patriarchy thing I've ever heard in my life. So, this... To recap, this girl, she found a bird, they became best friends. She did the bird's hair. They're like best friends now.
Christine Schiefer: Cute.
Em Schulz: They're hanging out together.
Christine Schiefer: Playing MASH.
Em Schulz: You know, probably gossiping on their way to Starbies. Bam! Dad shoots the bird in the wing.
Christine Schiefer: Fucked up.
Em Schulz: Fucking holds it hostage. The bird escapes. The daughter dies, I'm assuming of a broken heart. But also realistically in the, in the culture and in the, in the world of this, maybe the bird was an omen in some way to warn her like, "Girl, you're gonna die in a second."
Christine Schiefer: Hmm. Or this is a punishment now for him that he lost his child now.
Em Schulz: And then, the dad, apparently after this is so distraught that his daughter has died, that he studies owls and magic, and helps cure others that are cursed by Lechuzas. So explain to me how...
Christine Schiefer: Oh Lord.
Em Schulz: He was so fucking scared for his daughter that he whittled a cross into a bullet and shot a bird because he thought it was magical, and then goes on to study magic and becomes this well-known healer that helps others cursed by Lechuzas.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. But it sounds almost like he's more not studying magic in like the good way. It's like, he's like, "I'm gonna just cure people of magic." It sounds like he's saying, "This is like bad sorcery and I'll fix it with religion or something." Like, doesn't it sound more like...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: He's like anti-magic and he's just trying to squash it?
Em Schulz: I see. I see.
Christine Schiefer: You know what I mean?
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: I don't know.
Em Schulz: I still hate it that he be... He becomes a well-known healer, specifically in this department.
Christine Schiefer: Oy vey. Okay.
Em Schulz: Um, and then eventually he ends up dying. And we have... There's no like cause, there's no reason to this, he just dies in this story. And the story goes that a bunch of Lechuzas got together and killed him because they were tired of him trying to kill them.
Christine Schiefer: I mean, how do you... Okay. Serious question...
Em Schulz: I feel like someone really took a leap with all this. Yes.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. You don't say. Um, I just can't understand how a, an owl... I, I imagine when an owl would kill you, like its talons, but then also its beak. But if it has a nose made of cartilage...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Like that limits its attack c-capabilities in my mind. And now it just has to...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Whip you with its braids and like claw you. I guess the talons probably hurt.
Em Schulz: Whips... You know, like hair whipping you can hurt, man. But also you're right, because like if I ever head-butted someone with my nose, I'd be the one in pain. Not that...
Christine Schiefer: Bad news. Bad news for you.
Em Schulz: And also, the story goes that he died because he must have been killed by a bunch of Lechuzas. It's like, wouldn't they have killed him the second he tried to shoot at one of them?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. And like held one of them hostage. But, uh...
Em Schulz: Whatever.
Christine Schiefer: Uh, whatever.
Em Schulz: So, that's a fun little story for all of us. Um, on... There's one story too where, uh, one man was driving, when La Lechuza swooped too close to his truck and hit his windshield. And I guess this guy knew that it was a La Lechuza on the hunt, he runs the owl over and like...
Christine Schiefer: Ah!
Em Schulz: As like in a horror movie, backs up, hits the bird again to make sure that she's really dead because...
Christine Schiefer: Jesus.
Em Schulz: He thinks it's La Lechuza. In hindsight, could have just been an owl, and well, that's...
Christine Schiefer: Sad.
Em Schulz: Animal cruelty. Um, this is from a podcast called, uh, Mexico Unexplained. So he hits the bird, reverses, hits it again, which if this were actually an evil human being trying to hurt you, that was the right move. If it's an owl, I'd... No.
Christine Schiefer: No. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Um...
Christine Schiefer: Wrong. [laughter]
Em Schulz: So, uh, however, the owl apparently still gets up completely unharmed and flies away. But I guess as a... Like, this was obviously La Lechuza and not just a normal owl. As the bird gets up and flies away, the driver instantly suffers a heart attack and dies.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God.
Em Schulz: So, she got up...
Christine Schiefer: Wait. How do we even know? Then how do we know?
Em Schulz: The passenger... A passenger in the car told the story.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. The passenger's like, [chuckle] "I was just witnessing this whole thing."
[chuckle]
Em Schulz: Yeah. But yeah, talk about double traumas, like, you thought...
Christine Schiefer: Traumatic event.
Em Schulz: Oof. So, uh, in the 1970s, La Lechuza was said to actually try breaking into a woman's house when all the neighborhood dogs chased the bird away.
Christine Schiefer: Hmm!
Em Schulz: And the next morning, I guess as punishment for trying to chase off La Lechuza, every dog in the neighborhood was dead.
Christine Schiefer: Oh! I mean, wow. These are like extreme reactions all these people and creatures are having.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm. Well, so then here are some ways that if you were actually to run into La Lechuza, this is how you might be able to defeat her. This is just three different ways. One of them is salt. They say that if you leave salt by your entrances, then she can't break into those entrances. Some people say cuss at it until it leaves, but that feels like you're asking for...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: You can't whistle, but you can cuss. Like, what?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, right. And she's like, "Damn, the one thing I'm impervious to."
Em Schulz: "They got me. Ah." Like, it's like swiper no swiping, he's going, ah, shucks.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. "Damn it." I mean, "Dang it."
Em Schulz: Yeah.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Um, the other thing is a lot of people say that you can go to a curandero, which is a, uh, traditional healer in Mexico, and their practices have roots predating any colonization. So it's, um... There... It, it goes way back.
Christine Schiefer: Hmm.
Em Schulz: Um, they're also known to treat anything from physical to spiritual situations, and they can ward off bad spirits or break curses.
Christine Schiefer: I've heard that they, um, have some practices with eggs. Right?
Em Schulz: Yeah. Yeah. I've heard a...
Christine Schiefer: That you let the egg... Yeah.
Em Schulz: I've heard even like, um... I... One of my, uh, friend... Family friends out here, I'm friends with a whole family of, uh, like people that, like all their grandmas say that like, there's like something with eggs to like suck out bad spirits...
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: And bad energy and... Yeah. So I... And, 'cause one of them was talking about it, and I was like, "What? That's crazy." And then, like, they were... And then like...
Christine Schiefer: It's like a pretty...
Em Schulz: Yeah, everyone showed up and they were like...
Christine Schiefer: Common thing...
Em Schulz: "You're the crazy one for not doing that." [chuckle] So I was like, "Oh, okay."
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, dummy.
Em Schulz: Yeah. So, apparently eggs are a thing. Um, I don't know if it's like the shell traps bad energy inside or something, but people like...
Christine Schiefer: Well...
Em Schulz: Will rub egg on themsel... Like, the, the full egg.
Christine Schiefer: Well, so I've heard of it almost as like a, um, like a fort... A fortune telling or, not fortune telling, it's not... Um, like a diagnosis, almost, like...
Em Schulz: Oh. Interesting.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. I've heard of stories, I think on Spooked podcast, which is one of my favorites, by the way, you guys, it's so good. Um, they were telling a story where, or somebody told a story where they had a, uh, an egg, like they had this performed on them. And then when they opened the egg, there was like a dead mouse inside or something. And the, the healer was like...
Em Schulz: What?
Christine Schiefer: "Um, you're in fucking trouble." [laughter] Like crazy shit like that.
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: Or like the egg was like black inside or just like creepy things. Like they have you bring the egg, and then like they use it on you and they can tell. Anyway, it's really fascinating stuff.
Em Schulz: I'm looking it up right now. Uh, uh, so there's egg cleanses that relieve...
Christine Schiefer: Mm.
Em Schulz: Negative energy. Um, a family's holistic healing and cleansing practice. "My grandmother called my..." Uh, blah, blah, blah, blah. "To treat," uh, blah, blah, blah. "The unbroken egg in conjecture with a prayer... " Yeah, there's... Sorry, there's too much to like g-get into it here, but there's a whole thing on n-nursingclio.org.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, here. Oom... It's called oomancy, ooomancy, um, or ovomancy. Divination by eggs. Um...
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: So you essentially can either read the shapes, sort of like tea leaves, but like the shape of, of a yolk or an egg white.
Em Schulz: Oh. There's also... Okay. So this is from popsugar.com, but it's also, "A Latina Bruja's Guide to an Egg Cleanse".
Christine Schiefer: Yes.
Em Schulz: "An egg cleanse is a pretty straightforward ritual that packs a lot of power in Latinx culture. Uh, an egg cleansing is deeply rooted in respect for its ability to remove dark and dense energies. The process can be performed by a healer, spiritual practitioner, or even yourself," or apparently your grandma.
[chuckle]
Em Schulz: Um, you don't need to have superpowers to start incorporating these little cleansings. Uh...
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God. Can I read this? Sorry. I feel like this relates to so... Or like reverberates probably with so many of our listeners. I know we've had people write in about like egg cleanses and things and tell us in-person. It says, "You've likely landed here because of some childhood nostalgia. You've recently recalled a past memory of your abuela or a family member who used to perform the egg limpia on you and all your primas. You have no clue... You had no clue what was happening or had any feeling that it was brujeria or negative. It was just a thing your family did." [laughter] Which I'm like, that feels like something in my family where I'm like, "Oh, that's just not the egg, but something different." Like, oh, I don't know. We just did that.
Em Schulz: Well, that, that also makes sense, 'cause the first time I ever heard about it with my own friends, half of them were like, "I don't know why we did that." But then, the, the other half...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, that's funny.
Em Schulz: The other half were like, "Oh, it removes evil." And I was like, "Holy shit. Okay." So I just always... I...
Christine Schiefer: Well... And, and the, the other ones were like, "Oh, okay." Like nobody ever asked [laughter] what's happening.
Em Schulz: "It is believed that the egg is a capsule that absorbs negative energy from the body and aura. This is why the egg is rubbed all over the body while performing actual rituals and worked over specific areas of ailment." Well...
Christine Schiefer: [gasp] I think it's so, so cool.
Em Schulz: Depending the... " The egg as a vessel, think of the egg as a divination tool. The egg is going to energetically absorb all the unwanted energy and reveal if it was successful, successful or not." And then it goes on to, I think, show you how to do it. Yeah. How to, how do you prepare for an egg cleanse, how to prepare. Wow. Okay. So anyway, everyone go listen or read that article if it's of interest to you.
Christine Schiefer: That is really cool.
Em Schulz: Anyway, so, uh, maybe that's something they also do. Uh, I'm not too sure, but, um...
Christine Schiefer: We'll put the, the link to that in the chat so we can add it to the show notes.
Em Schulz: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Perfect. Um, go to a curandero. They help treat anything from physical to spiritual. They can help, uh, ward off spells. You can also recite special prayers. Um, and some have to actually be recited both forward and backwards. Um, and different religions used... Or not different religions, different regions use different prayers. Some are actually even closed practices that only that community knows about.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. Cool.
Em Schulz: Um, another way, which is interesting, is if you apparently tie seven knots in a rope and hang it on your door, which apparently is a sign of respect.
Christine Schiefer: Hmm.
Em Schulz: And if you're ever face to face with her, people have also done the Catholic prayer, The Twelve Truths, while tying a knot into a string. Um...
Christine Schiefer: Whoa.
Em Schulz: You do that every time you recite each Truth, so it ends up being 12 knots for The Twelve Truths.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Here's a story. In 1908, there was a guy named Antonio who was farming in the Rio Grande Valley, and a new guy from Mexico was vomiting blood at work.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp]
Em Schulz: But only on Thursdays and Fridays, which, like, I don't understand that.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I'm sorry. It's called, uh, Taco Tuesdays catching up with you.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: You know?
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Um...
Christine Schiefer: Womp womp.
Em Schulz: Yeah. I don't know if there's, like, some sort of, like, religious meaning behind Thursdays and Fridays, but I... Like, it's like, "Coming up on the weekend, I'm vomiting blood."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It's too bad. [laughter]
Em Schulz: So another guy named Francisco, he said, "Oh, this man must be under the spell of someone from his old town."
Christine Schiefer: Whoa.
Em Schulz: "So, I, Francisco, I am now going to do a ritual on you to heal you."
Christine Schiefer: That's nice.
Em Schulz: So, on Friday, I guess a day that he's throwing up blood.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: Um, the other guy, Francisco, goes to a farm and gets horsehair. The next day he tied 12 knots into the hair while reciting a prayer between every two knots. So he...
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Tells a prayer, knot knot, tells a prayer, knot knot. And while doing this, he is walking towards a tree where he sees two owls sitting in it, thinking, I guess a Lechuza might be involved.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Okay.
Em Schulz: Once he gets to the base of the tree, he ties the last knot, um, in this hair. And when he tied that last knot, the owls drop out of the tree.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp] Oh. Oh, no.
Em Schulz: So sorry to report this, but Francisco then takes a stick and beats them to death.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, for God's sake...
Em Schulz: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
Christine Schiefer: Jesus Christ. I mean, like, they're already dropped out of a tree. Like, I think they're probably struggling enough. But... Okay.
Em Schulz: Didn't it already work? Yeah. Um...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Francisco... Francisco then tells the man who is vomiting blood, "Hey, I've done half the ritual. Now your job is to go home, build a fire, take all the ash and move it to the side, so that way there's like a hole in the middle of the... So like, there's like, an open center amongst the ash."
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: "Take all your clothes, put them in that little center, recover, re-scoop all the ash into the center and cover your clothes. Burn the clothes." After that, the man then is told he has to go all the way back to his hometown in Mexico and burn whatever clothes he had there because there...
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: There couldn't be anything attached to him after this.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: The man does all this. And after the ritual is complete, he never vomited blood at work again. First of all...
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: Maybe because he was afraid he'd have to do that whole fucking ritual again.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. He's like, "I didn't do... I didn't vomit at all." Uh...
Em Schulz: Yeah. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: "I was just vomiting normal. There was no blood, I promise." [laughter]
Em Schulz: Right. Like, I can't ima... It's like, "I can't take more time off of work to go back to Mexico to do part of this. Like, I have to be here and I'm gonna throw up through it, probably."
Christine Schiefer: "This is my new job and I'm going to be fired. Um, please... "
Em Schulz: Also...
Christine Schiefer: "Leave me alone."
Em Schulz: Also, like maybe he never threw up blood again because he just, after the weekend was like, fucking fine. Like, maybe... I'm not saying the ritual did or didn't work. I'm saying...
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: Though, like, there are other way... Other reasons why maybe he never vomited blood.
Christine Schiefer: Why perhaps. Yeah.
Em Schulz: It's like the old timey, um, stories of like, "Oh, well, if you take this like, this crazy chemical liquid for 14 days, you won't have a cold by the end." And it's like, "Yeah."
[laughter]
Em Schulz: "'Cause 14 days later the cold is gone."
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah, it's magic. Um...
Em Schulz: Um...
Christine Schiefer: No. And I'm not trying to also bash this ritual practice at all. I'm just salty that he beat two birds to death, um, and I'm not happy about it. And I feel like he didn't need to go that way. You know?
Em Schulz: Exactly. That's what I'm saying. I'm like, it's, it's not that the ritual did or didn't work. I'm just saying there could be other circumstances for why it didn't happen again.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah, perhaps.
Em Schulz: Um, another story is that from the early 1900s, a woman used to turn into an owl at night and fly around practicing witchcraft. And the neighbors wanted that to stop. So...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: They, they were like, "We're so tired of this."
Christine Schiefer: Why is that so funny? I don't know.
Em Schulz: So they got together to pray her down.
Christine Schiefer: Uh-oh.
Em Schulz: Like from the sky where she's flying around. They got underneath her while she's like flying in a circle. And they litera...
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Literally, somehow in this story prayed her down, like, like her... Their prayers tugged her back down and like...
Christine Schiefer: Powerful.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm. Gravity-defying. Um...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, it is like that s... That m... That song from Wicked.
Em Schulz: Yes. She... Like a witch.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: So when she finally is tugged all the way back down to the ground, she becomes human again. Their prayer is so powerful. Wow.
Christine Schiefer: Wow. It's amazing. The power of prayer. You know what I mean?
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: T and P.
Em Schulz: Uh...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It works.
Em Schulz: Uh, she becomes human again, starts begging for mercy and says, "I have a kid. I promise I'll never practice witchcraft again." And so they spare her. And then apparently, the epilogue is that her son ends up growing up to do witchcraft, which is hysterical to me. Um...
Christine Schiefer: Oh. [laughter]
Em Schulz: So that's another story. You might know if someone is La Lechuza if an owl is hit in the wing or the leg or somewhere on their body, and the next day a woman in town has the same injuries in the same spot. Um...
Christine Schiefer: Aah.
Em Schulz: So that's how you know. That's how you know. Legend also says that owls gather in groups of seven. No more than seven, apparently, seven is the max. Um...
Christine Schiefer: No more in the hootenanny. There's no more room.
Em Schulz: Seven per hootenanny.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Um, and they get together. And I love this. This is so like girly energy. Apparently, the legend goes that owls gather together in groups of up to seven to discuss important matters. Like, I love that, just like gossip hour.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: That's called the parliament, though. Like...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: That one's not the hootenanny. Like the hootenanny is after-hours. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: That's... Well, it depends on if they're talking about politics or if like they're a little fucked up. You know? Like if they're...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Uh, hootenannies for card game time.
Em Schulz: Uh, yeah. If they're a little fucked up, that's a hootenanny. But if they're like talking about like the king...
Christine Schiefer: Things are serious right now...
Em Schulz: Uh...
Christine Schiefer: It's a parliament.
Em Schulz: But anyway, apparently the more gr... Owls in a group, the more dangerous they are. Which truly does just sound like a mean girl squad. Like the more mean girls in a group of mean girls, the more dangerous it can be for you.
Christine Schiefer: Like, for sure. And I'm threatened just thinking about it, you know? I feel threatened.
Em Schulz: Think about a hootenanny of like seven 13-year-olds. You would not fucking get near them.
Christine Schiefer: No. Think about how many braids between them.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: So many braids, and they're all French braids, and they're all fishtails.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: They're all the cool ones from the Klutz book that I never learned how to do.
Em Schulz: The Klutz book.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Why did you just... Why did you... First of all, how dare you know...
Christine Schiefer: You... [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Know in your heart that we all know what you're talking about without any questions?
Christine Schiefer: 'Cause you've deeply triggered me with your comments on mean girls. [laughter] I can't get over it.
Em Schulz: Klutz book. Truly... How dare you?
[laughter]
Em Schulz: That was... That felt, that felt so fucking violating to like...
Christine Schiefer: That was such a pull. I'm sorry.
Em Schulz: That was really bold of you to assume I wouldn't...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: It's like you... I didn't give you consent to reach into the folds of my brain like that.
Christine Schiefer: I know, I'm so sorry. It was like a lot to throw at you. I'm sorry.
Em Schulz: You just said Klutz book and all of us kind of went, "Ah!"
Christine Schiefer: Next...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I'll warn you next time. Okay. I'm sorry.
Em Schulz: Ah. So, um, uh, another story of, uh... Is that a farmer once heard laugh... This is from, uh, if the hootenanny of seven owls are... How dangerous they are in numbers.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: One farmer once was walking by a tree and heard laughter coming from the tree, turned to look and saw a bunch of owls laughing out loud together, and he took off.
Christine Schiefer: At him probably.
Em Schulz: Again, is that not mean girl energy? Like...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. No, it is like they're clearly laughing at you, not with you. And that's hurtful.
Em Schulz: If I were at a Starbucks right now and I saw three teenagers laughing and then I looked over and they looked at me and kept laughing, I would literally just fall off the face of the earth.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp] Literally, my heart just sank into my stomach. Like I'm scared of that.
Em Schulz: So owls are mean girls, but like we kind of love that for them. Unless like you're the victim, you know?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Right.
Em Schulz: Um...
Christine Schiefer: Like I'll stay far away, but good for you.
Em Schulz: Yeah. [laughter] Exactly.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: So, uh, if La Lechuzas are actually owls that are possessed, remember they're... The one theory is that...
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: Uh, someone is possessing them versus being a shapeshifter.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, so then it's a bunch of witches...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm. So, uh...
Christine Schiefer: Trapped in there.
Em Schulz: And one of the thoughts is if you kill the owl being possessed, you will also kill the witch, uh, at a remote location that's possessing it.
Christine Schiefer: Ohh. Okay.
Em Schulz: So that's one of the ways, that's why everyone's killing all these fucking birds and like hitting them with their car and beating them with sticks. It's 'cause they think they...
Christine Schiefer: 'Cause they wanna murder people. Got it.
Em Schulz: Bingo. You nailed it.
Christine Schiefer: Nailed it.
Em Schulz: Um, so if you try to kill an owl, and... Or if you do kill an owl and someone in your town dies mysteriously that same day, they might have been a La Lechuza and you didn't know it.
Christine Schiefer: Interesting.
Em Schulz: I feel so stupid by I saying, "A La Lechuza." I know how stupid that is.
Christine Schiefer: A La Lechuza.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Um, in the 1950s, locals were trying to kill La Lechuza in their town and did it by using a child as bait.
Christine Schiefer: Oh Lord.
Em Schulz: Um, and it came... When the owl swooped down, they tried to shoot at it, but it survived.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God.
Em Schulz: And the next day they went to the house of the, of the woman they thought was La Lechuza, and she in fact did have a bandaged leg. So... But like if you... Well...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Just like a classic, like, "See?" [laughter]
Em Schulz: It's the most like self-fulfilling prophecy or whatever it's called.
Christine Schiefer: Yes. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Um, or it's like circular thinking and so... I don't know. But also if you were trying to kill La Lechuza and you knew she was La Lechuza, why don't you just kill her since you're so cool with murdering for no reason?
Christine Schiefer: Right. Since it doesn't seem to matter. Um... Hmm.
Em Schulz: So despite stories of La Lechuza being evil, some say that she stemmed... Most say she stemmed from Indigenous people's spir... Uh, spirituality. And some say, in particular, it's Indigenous people's spiritual partnerships with animals such as owls.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, okay.
Em Schulz: Um, and that's where the beginning of this all comes from. So in this theory, uh, when the Spanish colonized and enforced Catholicism on Mexico, they also condemned Indigenous spirituality. Um, therefore, uh, relationships with animals became a bad thing.
Christine Schiefer: Hmm.
Em Schulz: And the association between animals...
Christine Schiefer: Classic.
Em Schulz: And spirituality ended up warping into something very dark. So...
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: Once the associations were set in place that, uh, the devil is like in cahoots with nocturnal animals.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: Then owls became omens, and La Lechuza became evil.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Um, but keep in mind owls were seen as omens across multiple cultures, even pre-colonization. So some think that this theory isn't right because owls being bad has been a thing since before this. Um, or, uh, owls being scary and dark in some way has been a thing forever. So it's unsure...
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: If La Lechuza was good pre-colonization and then twisted into something else, or if she was always ominous. But some say that owls can be both good and bad, and either way La Lechuza is, um, someone many cultures and legends say to be on the lookout for. So that is La Lechuza.
Christine Schiefer: Whoa. What a fricking doozy, Em.
Em Schulz: It's a good one.
Christine Schiefer: I swear, you said the word, I was like, "I feel like I've heard of that." I did not know all of that, for sure. Um, that was news to me.
Em Schulz: Ah. Well, I'm glad I could give you something to chew on.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: You did. I am, um, reeling a little bit. That was, uh, that was quite a lot of chaos that just happened in the last hour. Um...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Well, I have to tell you, Em, that I have probably one of the wildest stories I've ever covered, I think.
Em Schulz: [gasp] I love when you have wild stories.
Christine Schiefer: It is... Like, I just don't even know where... I'll just begin. I was gonna say I don't know where to begin, so I'll just begin.
Em Schulz: Okay. That's usually how it works.
Christine Schiefer: This is the s-s-story... Oh yeah, that's usually... That usually does the trick. So let's, let's hope. This is the story of Malcolm MacArthur.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Malcolm MacArthur's grandparents moved from Scotland to County Meath Ireland in 1906. And they had actually come from wealth. And when they moved, they purchased a 100 achy... Achy... [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Achy breaky.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: 180-acre estate. Um, and despite their wealth, they kind of had a hard time, uh, inserting themself into the new community. Nobody knew anything about them. Um, this was kind of olden days where you couldn't just hop on Bumble BFF and make a pal. So it was a struggle to get, uh, acquainted with their neighbors. So Malcolm, who was born in 1946, grew up as a pretty lonely child. He did not have many friends, his family didn't have many friends, and his parents were very busy, so the estate's housekeeper spent a lot of time raising him. When his parents did, however, pay him notice, uh, it was almost worse than when they ignored him, because...
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: His father was very violent and, uh, beat Malcolm often, and once so severely that he needed stitches.
Em Schulz: Yeesh.
Christine Schiefer: So although his grandparents had come from wealth, uh, the family's wealth had dwindled over the generations. Um, so even though he started in private school as like a young boy, um, as he got older, uh, he had to be pulled out of these lavish private schools with childrens of lords and politicians, and, uh, ended up going to just a local school near his home. And even though he got along with his classmates and they liked him fine enough, he just wasn't very sociable. Um, and in photos that you can see, he never seems to be standing like with a group of friends, it's sort of like he's just kind of there.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: It's, it's a little bit sad. Like you can tell he's like in the group or the club, but he is kind of like not, uh...
Em Schulz: That's like...
Christine Schiefer: With them, socially.
Em Schulz: One of the worst feelings. Like you're, you're physically next to people, but just mentally totally on your own.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. And it's like it's not one of those classic bullying things, like they did include him, he just wasn't really...
Em Schulz: Connecting.
Christine Schiefer: So... Connecting. Exactly. So in the late '60s, uh, 1960s here, he got an Economics degree in California, and inherited a small fortune when his father died in the early '70s. And they're not entirely sure how, uh, how much exactly, but the sources range from what today would be anywhere from $500,000 to a million dollars, um...
Em Schulz: Whew.
Christine Schiefer: When his father died. So he immediately used this money to start living a flamboyant lifestyle. He was always flaunting expensive fashion and bold statement pieces. He would hang out at fancy bars and lavish restaurants. Um, he loved the Dublin art scene where he'd spent time with painters and writers and like rubbing elbows. Uh, he also decided he was kind of an expert in all these random subjects like astrophysics. It reminds me of like, uh, I don't know, like... [chuckle] I almost said Leonardo DiCaprio? Uh, Leonardo da Vinci, or one...
Em Schulz: Please.
[chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: One of those guys who like just happened to know about inventions and art and like a, like a Renaissance man. You know what I mean?
Em Schulz: A Renaissance man.
Christine Schiefer: Like he, he fancied himself a Renaissance man like Leonardo DiCaprio.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Um, so...
Em Schulz: Okay. Sure.
Christine Schiefer: He decided he was like an expert on things like astrophysics, like things he had not studied. Uh, he spoke...
Em Schulz: Okay like he... He's like he's decided he is an expert. It's like...
Christine Schiefer: He's decided. Like he just was like, "I have money now, so that's me, an astrophysicist."
Em Schulz: Uh... I wonder if he thinks that's how it goes. Like, "Oh... "
Christine Schiefer: Maybe.
[chuckle]
Em Schulz: He just... Once you have the money, I guess you just say whatever you want.
Christine Schiefer: Like who could stop you? You know?
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: And he spoke with such authority that people actually did believe like the things he said. So...
Em Schulz: All right.
Christine Schiefer: He was so confident that people were like, "Oh, okay." Um, with the way he spoke, dressed, and spent money peop... Some people actually thought he was like part of the aristocracy in Ireland. They just...
Em Schulz: Damn.
Christine Schiefer: Were like, "Well, it matches." So despite his, you know, fancy, uh, cravats and all this business and the way he spent money and spent his time, he still was not connecting with people, he was still not like that social butterfly. And one person who knew him actually said, "He was very aloof and withdrawn. He's not someone you can just go have a friendly chat with."
Em Schulz: Mmm.
Christine Schiefer: So it's like he was always there, again, but like just not connecting with people. Many people felt that talking to him was like trying to talk to a wall. Um, he would only really talk to you if he thought the topic was interesting enough, otherwise, he would just avoid conversations altogether. However, he would still go to all these parties and social gatherings, and he would literally, Em, stand alone by a wall.
Em Schulz: Aww.
Christine Schiefer: 'Cause he just like wanted to be there, but he didn't want to participate in the conversations. So I'm like... I mean, to an extent, I get that. It sounds, it sounds almost like neurodivergent. Like you wanna be...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: In the circle, but you're just like, "But the talking part's not for me." Like I can get that for sure. Umm, and if that's where it had stopped that would be great, but unfortunately it gets so much worse. So eventually he meets a woman named Brenda Little, and they become long-term partners and have a son together. And Brenda didn't realize it at first, but Malcolm was being extremely, as we could have guessed, irresponsible with his money. Umm, you know, he got what was like 500,000 to a million dollars, but he's spending it like crazy.
Em Schulz: Sure.
Christine Schiefer: Uh, he's spending it without any plan and he doesn't have a job. So he... By the end of the '70s, basically within the decade, his, uh, funds were all drained.
Em Schulz: Mmm.
Christine Schiefer: In 1982, he and Brenda moved with their seven-year old son to Tenerife. And Tenerife is a Spanish island off the coast of Northwest Africa. For six weeks Malcolm spent his time in this like... Tenerife by the way is a very touristy area. Umm, a lot of people, uh, go down there for spring break, summer break, that kind of thing.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: So he's there in this big tourist hub, and he is becoming more and more obsessed by the day over his finances and trying to come up with a way to restore his wealth. And he becomes obsessed with this idea that like he, his family had all this money, they lost it, and he wants to have the money back because he does not want to work. He, he...
Em Schulz: Sure.
Christine Schiefer: He's never really had to.
Em Schulz: He's like, "How do I make this stretch as long as possible?"
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Or not even stretch, like, how do I just get as much money so I don't have to stretch it? Do you know what I mean?
Em Schulz: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. So instead of like sitting down and saying, "Well, I got uh an economics degree I could probably use that to help," uh, he decided instead that it would be easier to rob a bank.
Em Schulz: Okay. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: So now... Okay. [laughter]
Em Schulz: All right. Let's see where this takes us.
Christine Schiefer: This is where all the mean girl owls in their braids just start laughing at him like, oh my God. [laughter], who do you think you are? Rob a bank?
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: In your ascot. Really?
Em Schulz: That's so true. Oh my god. If anyone was wearing an ascot, every owl I think would laugh.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, you'd be mocked relentlessly.
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: Uh, wow. Painful. So not long after he and his partner and son moved to Tenerife, Malcolm tells Brenda, "you know what? I have a trip to Switzerland I have to take care of. Umm, so I'm gonna hop over to Switzerland to sort out some of our finances. I'll be back soon." Instead, he hopped on a ferry and decided to drop back to Ireland and do some nefarious activities.
Em Schulz: Like robbing a bank. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Like robbing a bank. [laughter] So he is like, "I'm going to Switzerland. Bye honey." And she's like, "okay, bye." And he hops on a ferry back to Ireland. This is July 8th, 1982. On this ferry he's cooking up the world's wildest plot ever, to rob a bank. So he stays in Dublin. Uh, he avoids all the places where he usually spends his time 'cause he doesn't wanna be recognized. Okay. That's a good start. Uh.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Uh, so far we're on the right pick. I mean, as someone who's never robbed a bank so far it sounds like he's doing it right.
Christine Schiefer: You're right. Like step one.
Em Schulz: Incognito.
Christine Schiefer: Create an alibi. I'm going to Switzerland, be incognito in Ireland. You've got it. Step one is complete. Umm, so, right. He doesn't want anyone to see him. 'Cause then they'll know he is there. He wants people to think he's either Tenerife or Switzerland. So he becomes like, again, seems slightly neurodivergent, like hyper fixated. He becomes hyper fixated on this new identity as like a robber, like a bank robber, a rogue, a rogue criminal. Umm, and so what he does is he grows out his beard and he gets these glasses as a disguise.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, and as part of it, he would, he started wearing these like giant heavy wool sweaters and...
Em Schulz: What?
Christine Schiefer: It's like fucking middle of summer. He is...
Em Schulz: Why, why is he doing this?
Christine Schiefer: Sweating buckets to, to create his new identity as like a, a rogue villain, a, a criminal.
Em Schulz: I feel like, I feel like his, his new identity is kind of fucking not kind to his own body.
Christine Schiefer: It's like a wizard or something.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: It's like.
Em Schulz: You think you like.
Christine Schiefer: A long beard.
Em Schulz: A fisherman on a boat or something in the Winter?
Christine Schiefer: Yes, you're right. No, it literally sounds like he's becoming a Scandinavian fisherman is what it sounds like. Um.
Em Schulz: It's wild.
Christine Schiefer: But, yeah. So he starts wearing these like crazy heavy sweaters thinking by the way, he's gonna be incognito. And it's like, you look more obvious now than when you were just wearing a t-shirt, but okay. I guess now you're wearing a giant sweater and it's 90 degrees. So Malcolm spent a few weeks, literal weeks plotting for this, uh, new venture of his.
Em Schulz: Uh-huh.
Christine Schiefer: And his first step, this is now where you and I kind of think, okay, we're all on the same page of robbing a bank and he just takes a fucking hard left in the wrong direction. Okay.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: So despite spending weeks plotting this bank robbery, the first thing he decides is, oh shit. Well, I need a car.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: So he says, you know, I need to steal a car to pull off this robbery, like a getaway car. Right? So he could have just stolen a car off the street. This is the '80s. Like you could hot wire or something. Umm, but no, that wasn't enough for Malcolm. He decided he wanted to steal a car and also murder its owner.
Em Schulz: Hmm. That's a...
Christine Schiefer: So.
Em Schulz: An elevated risk as uh...
Christine Schiefer: It seems...
Em Schulz: Some might say.
Christine Schiefer: Unnecessary, right? Like it's...
Em Schulz: Yeah. Logic, logic is on its way to taking a tumble.
Christine Schiefer: That's exactly right. It's about to fly the coop. It's like teetering on the edge of the coop. Umm.
Em Schulz: Like we could, we could have done this in a more benign way, you know?
Christine Schiefer: For sure. Like if you were just like, ha... In this fantasy world of yours, we could have done it a little less violently. Umm, but no, uh, it gets very horrific now because 27 year old Bridie Gargan was a nurse at St. James Hospital in Dublin and happened to be from County Meath as well. On July 22nd, she was sitting in the park sunbathing, just like after a really long shift of nursing, sat by her car, basking in the warm summer sun, eyes closed, had no idea that Malcolm had been stalking her from nearby and had decided to attack her and steal her car.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Somebody, however, had taken notice of Malcolm. I mean, to be honest, it's hard not to when he's wearing like a giant sweater and stalking a woman through the park.
Em Schulz: Was it the hootenanny of owls?
Christine Schiefer: I honestly, you know, it was like, we, like, they, they didn't say anything, but they're like, oh, we saw that coming a mile away.
Em Schulz: They whispered to each other. They're like, oh my God, what's he about to do? That's gonna be so embarrassing.
Christine Schiefer: What is he wearing? It's so embarrassing.
Em Schulz: Whatever he's about to do is so humiliating. He's gonna be so humiliated.
Christine Schiefer: He thinks he's like so cool. [laughter] Did you hear that his parents got divorced? [laughter] Oh wait, no, sorry. That's, that's a bad memory of mine. [laughter] Okay, so... [laughter] Anyway, umm, so somebody had noticed him and it was a gardener named Paddy Byrne, and he was watching Malcolm because Malcolm was moving really fucking strangely across the park in a giant sweater. Like, weirdly slowly kind of like he was trying to be like a, a predator and...
Em Schulz: Yeah. This is...
Christine Schiefer: He was wearing like heavy tweed, uh, and a hat.
Em Schulz: Yeah. He's not being as incognito as he originally planned.
Christine Schiefer: No! He's being cognito out, out cognito [laughter], I don't know the word, but he's being very cognito right now. And so he also is wearing this like, dramatic bow tie. I mean like, this man stands out like a sore thumb. So several people had taken notice of how out of place this guy looked. And so this Paddy, this gardener is watching and when Malcolm reaches Bridie, he pounces on her and drags her, shoves her in the backseat of her own car. Paddy, who's now like witnessing this and it's too late to do anything, watches in horror as Malcolm pulls out a hammer and begins attacking Bridie with it.
Em Schulz: [gasp] Ugh. Gross. Awful, mean, terrible.
Christine Schiefer: Horrible.
Em Schulz: Disturbing. Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: Horrible. So the gardener jumps a wall, rushes to the car, and when he gets to the car, this fucking guy...
Em Schulz: What?
Christine Schiefer: Is sitting inside pretending to read a newspaper.
Em Schulz: Okay. That feels in its own way disturbing 'cause it's like...
Christine Schiefer: It's like I just saw you smash a woman's head in.
Em Schulz: Well, it's also disturbing because it implies that he knows. Like, it's like, oh, I have to look like I'm doing something normal to make up for whatever people might have just noticed. Like...
Christine Schiefer: Yes. It's like a weird...
Em Schulz: It feels like like he knows he could have gotten caught if he's already paranoid about looking... Like he could have just killed her and then drove the car away. But like the fact that he wanted to sit.
Christine Schiefer: Right. No, now he's pretending, he's like playing along.
Em Schulz: Yeah. It's like he's like trying to add to his persona he's created.
Christine Schiefer: Ugh. Yeah. It's like he read "Harriet the Spy" when he was five and was like, I know how to do it. And like completely missed. It's like when Leona tries to hide, but she really just like puts like a, a hand to her eye.
Em Schulz: Yeah that's the... That's a pretty perfect, it's like we can all see you. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Like, we'll pretend as long as you're not murdering somebody, but okay. Umm, yeah. So he gets there, like he literally has just watched this man pull out a hammer and beat this woman in the back of her own car. And he runs up to the car and Malcolm is sitting there pretending to read a newspaper with the bloody woman behind him in the backseat.
Em Schulz: Is he not also covered in blood?
Christine Schiefer: So he's literally covered in blood. She is back there having just been bludgeoned with the hammer.
Em Schulz: Ugh
Christine Schiefer: So what he does is he tosses a few pieces of newspaper over her in an attempt to cover her up.
Em Schulz: [gasp] Which like, like this is not to be insensitive, but like a newspaper is the thinnest material you could put put on a bloody mess. Like, it's not even.
Christine Schiefer: Exactly like, it doesn't.
Em Schulz: Well thought out.
Christine Schiefer: It's not... Right. It's not like he's planned this. It's just kind of like, oh, this'll do. And it feels so callous and just like, who gives a shit? You know?
Em Schulz: It feels like it was an afterthought of like, oh, I guess have to cover you...
Christine Schiefer: Afterthought.
Em Schulz: With something.
Christine Schiefer: Yes. And like it obviously, like you said, does not even work. So now he has this like bloodied mess in the backseat and and unfortunately, I hate to say this, but Bridie is still alive and.
Em Schulz: [gasp] No. Oh my god.
Christine Schiefer: Barely. Barely. And I want to, before I get everyone's hopes up, she died in the hospital a few days later of her injuries.
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: But at this point, she is still slightly conscious and is trying to speak.
Em Schulz: Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: And it's horrific. Like this turn, story just turned so dramatically. I like to be honest, as I was researching this, I was like, somebody tell me he had a head injury or like...
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: An aneurysm. Like something is so 180 about this story. I just can't wrap my mind around it.
Em Schulz: Ugh.
Christine Schiefer: So Paddy runs up, he sees this is happening, right? Like she's still alive. Malcolm pulls a gun out on Paddy and tells him to back off. So Paddy goes and tries to lunge for the gun, but as he's outside in the heat and he is been working and he is been running over this fence, he's all sweaty. So he tries to grab it, but he, he has bad footing and he, he does not manage to get the gun out of his hands. So Malcolm advances Paddy falls down into a ditch and Malcolm takes off in the car and leaves him behind. And...
Em Schulz: He didn't get shot though.
Christine Schiefer: No, he did not get shot.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, he just got away at this point. So he is in Dublin traffic with this car. And this is like, Em, this is like stuff that if you wrote it in a book or movie, people would be like, that would never happen. So he's driving through traffic and there's an ambulance passing by in like the kind of slow traffic. They glance down and see the bloody mess in the back of his car.
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: And this is an ambulance. And the crew in the ambulance also notices that because this is Bridie's car, there is a St. Joseph's Hospital badge on the rear view mirror, like a, sort of like a parking pass.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: And they think that Malcolm is taking a patient to the hospital.
Em Schulz: [gasp]
Christine Schiefer: And they think he's a doctor and he plays along. So they kind of like...
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: Signal him, turn on the lights and escort him to the hospital.
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: Like it, it's like if this were written in a script, you'd be like, that's so ridiculous.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: You know, like, how would you even see the St. Joseph sticker or whatever, but like, they genuinely thought, oh, this must be somebody on the way to the hospital. Clearly there's been an emergency, so they turn on the lights, you know, do the right thing, lead him to the hospital and he fucking follows them there.
Em Schulz: Right, I guess he's like, he must be like, I'm gonna follow the lead, follow the lead. Like, or.
Christine Schiefer: Right. Like now what? Right. You're like, you can't just, uh, be like, nevermind, I'll take my own route. I'll take the scenic route.
Em Schulz: He's like, he's like I gotta roll with the punches now and just kind of whatever.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: However the story pans out, whatever keeps me out of trouble. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Because, see like, as we've already mentioned, basically, or alluded to, like, he has not planned this even though he allegedly spent weeks planning it, like there's no plan here. He just attacked a couple people, jumped in the car, got escorted to the hospital by an ambulance, and as the ambulance pulls through Malcolm veers and speeds away.
Em Schulz: Oh, well then, umm, I hope and pray that immediately they knew something bad was going on.
Christine Schiefer: Uh, yeah. Right. They were like, hang on.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Yeah. Wait a minute.
Christine Schiefer: That doesn't that does not seem correct. Then he just abandons, he dumps the car and he leaves Bridie in the backseat.
Em Schulz: Ugh. Which like, I guess for him originally, I was gonna say, that's a s-stupid move. You should have just played along with this, but honestly that might've been for his plan, the best thing...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: He could have done because it's like, you're gonna be distracted with this body. I have time to get away.
Christine Schiefer: True. It's like at least I, and that's kind of what happened. He basically decided to go back to square one. And the part that like really, I don't think I've ever said this, grinds my gears about this story is like he decides, eh, that didn't work and like decides to go back to square one and not even necessarily need a car anymore. And it's like, okay, so you just brutalized and ultimately murdered this woman, you know, for what?
Em Schulz: Or, or, yeah. Like, and or maybe it was like he was gonna turn this into a, well, that was my practice and now I'm gonna have to go kill somebody else for their car, and like, I'll do it better.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. He didn't even, right. He didn't, he was like, actually on second thought, maybe I don't need a car.
Em Schulz: This was too messy. This was too hard for me.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. And it was like, I guess I don't need a car after all. I could have skipped straight from step three to step five, you know? And it's like, this just makes, I mean, not that obviously it would be any better if he actually successfully robbed a bank because of this, but like, it's just something so like afterthought, like, eh, on second thought, that's not my plan anymore, so I'll just leave her here. You know? And so really, really fucked up. He, he left the car with her inside it and headed for a bus station. He decided to catch a ride to Edenderry in County Offaly. And he was going to answer an ad in the newspaper by a man named Donal Dunne. And this man's ad in the newspaper was for selling a shotgun. So he stopped at the bus station to ask about bus times.
Christine Schiefer: And the attendant, uh, was like, this guy is acting very highfalutin.
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: He has a cravat. He has like a very, quote unquote, what they called "cultured accent" and speech. And the bus attendant is like, immediately, I know that this guy is not from here, does not fit in. Something is off.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: But he goes on his merry way and he stops at a pub where he shaves his beard off in the bathroom. Maybe that's when he decided the beard suddenly was not the disguise he thought it would be. And then he took the bus to Edenderry. Meanwhile, authorities find Bridie's car in the backseat she is still alive.
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: The attack, of course, made headlines the next day, and they put a photo of Bridie as the front front picture. It's it's horrible. She fought for her life for four days in the hospital, but ultimately succumbed to her injuries. And now, as I've already told you, Malcolm has become a murderer. From like a, a half-ass plan on the ferry to rob a bank, and now he's wanted for someone's murder. Like it's just, I'm telling you, there must have been a head injury. I don't know. So police pulled a fingerprint from the scene of the car, but because he had never been in trouble for anything before, it was like at, at the time, a complete dead end. They had no suspects, they had no motive. The fingerprint didn't match anyone on file. And so they started searching for the killer on the roads, thinking he was hitchhiking, and maybe someone had spotted him, but in the meantime, he had hopped on this bus to pick up a shotgun in Edenderry.
Christine Schiefer: So Saturday, July 24th, he arrives in Edenderry, and at 10:30 AM he meets up with this man, Donal Dunne, who had put this ad out in the paper for a shotgun. So they meet at the post office and then, uh, I guess, I don't know for sure, but my assumption is Malcolm asked to try out the gun, like test it out.
Em Schulz: Mmm. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: So Donal drives him out of town to a bog to demonstrate the gun and let Malcolm try it out before buying. Well, as soon as Donal handed Malcolm the gun, Malcolm turned it and shot him from three feet away directly in the head.
Em Schulz: Damn. Wow.
Christine Schiefer: Just execution style straight to the head. Kills him from three feet away.
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: He he barely, I mean, again, this is like the same pattern over and over. He just barely covers his body with a few brambles. Like, he doesn't even...
Em Schulz: I mean it's...
Christine Schiefer: Take the time.
Em Schulz: I mean, it's very much like putting a newspaper over the other one's body.
Christine Schiefer: Yes. Yes.
Em Schulz: It's like.
Christine Schiefer: It's like why even do it at all? You know what I mean?
Em Schulz: Yeah. Bare minimum effort to try to show some sort of humanity when you don't have it.
Christine Schiefer: Or not even humanity, but just like hiding, like hiding the body. You know what I mean? Like, even if it wasn't like, for moral reasons, but it was like, oh, I don't want anyone to stumble upon this body. Even that he doesn't give a shit. He puts like...
Em Schulz: Yeah, logistically it doesn't make sense at all.
Christine Schiefer: No. I'm like, what is he doing? So, like, he could barely be bothered to even put like a leaf on this guy. So he takes Donal's car now and the gun of course, and flees the scene. This is horrible. Once again, that evening a family was picnicking by the bog when their seven-year-old son found the body of Donal.
Em Schulz: A seven year old?
Christine Schiefer: A seven-year-old on a family picnic out in nature, like that day too. So it was like clear, still a bloody scene, you know? So police jump into action and at one point there are 300 police officers searching the area for a gun. Uh, any sort of evidence that could be linked to this, just like shocking crime of this local guy. And in town witnesses pretty immediately came forward to describe the strange man they'd seen, uh, Donal with right before he was shot in the head. Uh, people were like, yeah, it was this weird dude with like these big sweaters on. Like, he looked completely out of place and very sweaty, presumably he had this strange accent and he talked all high and mighty. And so police in Dublin and Offaly were like, wait a second. This sounds like a similar description.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: So they're starting to maybe make a link between Donal and Bridie's murders.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: And that is when they pull a fingerprint from a discarded newspaper that witnesses had seen him reading in the town of Edenderry, and that matched the print from Bridie's car. So they knew this was the same guy.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: But they're like, why? Like they're like this guy in this one town and this young woman in this other town, one is beaten to death with a hammer, one is shot in the head. Like, who is this? And why are they doing it? Like they just cannot figure out the motive. They cannot link the two victims.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: They're utterly confounded.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: So, papers at this point are going wild for the story. They're advertising huge rewards for information leading to the killer. And uh, in the meantime, Malcolm was like, okay, I've done it. I've accomplished steps 1 through 15. Now it's time for step 16 to rob a bank.
Em Schulz: Mmm.
Christine Schiefer: So on August 4th, he drives to the home of US diplomat Harry Bieling. And Malcolm told Harry Bieling that he'd been at a party at this guy's house months earlier. And he was back to photograph some of the lovely views he admired. So Harry was like, my house does have nice views, doesn't it come on in.
Em Schulz: [laughter] Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Literally lets him in. And Malcolm pulls a shotgun and says, give me money.
Em Schulz: [gasp] Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: So Harry, the diplomat says, okay, let me go grab my checkbook. And Malcolm says, okay. And the guy fucking runs. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Yeah. This guy... I... Okay. The more you're, the more you're telling the story, the more I'm realizing this guy ha... Like something is up. Like, I don't know if it's...
Christine Schiefer: It's like... Yes, there's like a disconnect.
Em Schulz: Something's not clicking the way that maybe it would click for most people I don't... Like, obviously they're trying to get away. I mean also like from plan A of like, oh, go incognito. And then you start wearing a costume with an accent. Like that's...
Christine Schiefer: It's so odd.
Em Schulz: It's... Yeah. It just feels...
Christine Schiefer: And it's not like what a person that you would think with like a college degree who you know, is pretty well educated. Like it's not what you'd think they would concoct after weeks of planning. Like...
Em Schulz: But also, like you were saying earlier, the like for both... Umm, for with both previous murders, the like, not even thinking through like the cleanup, like, or the...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: It really does seem like it's not... It doesn't feel just impulsive. It feels like they're like, something's missing. Like...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, true. It's like it because...
Em Schulz: The first...
Christine Schiefer: Think what throws me... Oh sorry, go ahead.
Em Schulz: No, I was gonna say the first thing if even in my fake hypothetical imagination.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: If I were to commit a murder, my first thought is how do I get away with it? Not how do I set up myself to murder somebody? It's like...
Christine Schiefer: Exactly. There's a weird way of thinking.
Em Schulz: My first thought is how do I clean it up so no one ever catches me?
Christine Schiefer: I mean yeah.
Em Schulz: And like for that to not be the first thought is kind of wild.
Christine Schiefer: And it's weird 'cause it kinda was the first thought 'cause he immediately created an alibi for his future crime by saying I'm going to Switzerland. But then like didn't plan any... It was like his first thought was, okay, I'll pretend I'm in Switzerland. And that's the end of his like planning for how...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: To get away with it.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: It's like he just skipped a hundred steps. And I think what weirds me out too is... Or like what throws me off is that he spent weeks in his hotel hiding out and planning this. And I'm like, weeks? Like...
Em Schulz: Yeah, weeks to plan nothing.
Christine Schiefer: If you told me 5 minutes, I'd hardly believe you, but weeks? Something about this is just so bizarre.
Em Schulz: Yeah. So, okay... So... Now this, this other guy...
Christine Schiefer: So he lets this guy fucking run [laughter], like just run out the house and like, you know, our wonderful researcher Saoirse wrote, I know this is not funny at all, but it feels almost comical how trusting both of them are like this first diplomat guy, just lets...
Em Schulz: Both of them!
Christine Schiefer: This man into his house. Yeah. And then he's like, okay, let me just grab all my money for you. And he's like, sure, go for it. Like it's a weird comedy of errors, you know?
Em Schulz: I know this is not how it is in, in reality, I know that. But in a trope I would say that's like a Canadian crime of like.
Christine Schiefer: Oh yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure.
Em Schulz: Of like, oh, like both people just...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, after you.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Complimenting each other.
Christine Schiefer: Or that like into... Yeah, into the cr... Into the murder. It's like that Midwest like stereotype too. Like...
Em Schulz: Very Midwestern. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. [laughter]
Em Schulz: But also... So I'm confused now. So is he like just doing murder for sport at this point? Because like, he could have just like said, oh, you have a lovely home. And then when the guy goes to the bathroom, just stolen his checkbook or something.
Christine Schiefer: But remember he could have just gotten into Bridie's car and driven away, but instead he walked up...
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: To her, dragged her into the car.
Em Schulz: Yeah. That's the part.
Christine Schiefer: For no reason. Like if he had just gone up, grabbed the keys, but at... He had a gun with him, you know, why didn't he not shoot it? Whatever. So he basically walks up, he could have gotten the keys hopped in the car and maybe genuinely gotten away with some of this, but like, why drag her into the car? It doesn't make any sense. So like what you're saying, yeah, that would make a lot more sense to say I'm photographing the view and then steal his checkbook. But no...
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: He has to hold a gun to him and let him run away. Just crazy. So, uh, he finally figures out this is taking a long time to get the checkbook. I think he ran away [laughter], And let him go. Uh, he flees the scene and he decides to hitchhike to the home of his partner, Brenda... Okay. So gargoyles out.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: His partner, Brenda's, so you know, his, his long-term partner, Brenda, mother of his child, her best friend.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Is the attorney general. And so his name is, is another Paddy, which is why it's a little confusing.
Em Schulz: Oh, okay.
Christine Schiefer: Paddy Connolly is the attorney general also happens to be a best friend of Brenda. So Malcolm's like, I'll go to his house, so...
Em Schulz: Okay. He'll understand.
Christine Schiefer: [laughter] He, he hitchhikes to his house and he said, "oh, hey buddy. I just," but like some things he sticks to, he says, "I just got back from Switzerland." Like he's literally trying to like implant this weird alibi even now. So he says, "I just returned from Switzerland and I really need a, a place to stay." And Paddy was like, "Okay, sure. Come on in."
Em Schulz: Wild. So...
Christine Schiefer: [giggles] This is like so bat shit crazy. So Malcolm then decides to set the stage, unfortunately, I mean, I think he set it a long time ago for his own undoing, and that is because Harry was still alive, the diplomat and could obviously identify him. So Malcolm's like, man, how do I deal with this, uh, with this issue? I know. I'm gonna call Harry the diplomat real quick.
Em Schulz: Okay. [laughter] What?
Christine Schiefer: That's how he, he picks up the phone and he calls Harry. He's like, I'll explain, I'll explain it, don't worry.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: So he calls Harry and he says, "Oh, I'm so sorry. You thought that was a robbery? That was just a prank." [laughter]
Em Schulz: Girl. What?
Christine Schiefer: I'm sorry. It like cracks me up.
Em Schulz: I...
Christine Schiefer: He basically [laughter] he tries to convince him it was all a practical joke.
Em Schulz: That's, I mean, I can't, you know, who else does that as like an eight year old who gets in trouble and they're like, "no, no, no. I was just kidding." Like...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, an eight year old also says it was my imaginary friend. And he could have gone with that too, you know, at this point. Like...
Em Schulz: Yeah. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God. He, he genuinely, umm, calls him and says, "oh, that failed robbery. That was just a practical joke." Uh, and then he's like, you know what? I should also let the police know. [laughter] So he calls the police. [laughter]
Em Schulz: He [laughter], he's like trying to, he's trying to, like, he is inviting himself to the interrogation room, so he looks better. He's like.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, right? Like, I mean, yes. He's like, let me introduce myself. Look at my, have you seen my ascot? You know? Umm, so he basically calls the police and he's like, "Oh, I just called Harry to let him know too, but just so you're aware, I tried to rob him earlier. Umm, oh, did I tell you my name? Umm, yeah, it's Malcolm. So anyway, I tried to rob this guy earlier and, uh, it was all a big joke and it's a misunderstanding." Okay.
Em Schulz: You know, I wonder, I wonder the, 'cause it seems like up until now we haven't gotten, we hadn't seen any indication that he knew he was making a lot of mistakes along the way.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: And it's interesting that something in the last hour...
Christine Schiefer: Yes!
Em Schulz: All of a sudden he senses guilt or that he slipped up and he needs to like own it?
Christine Schiefer: I think it's, yeah. It, it's weird because like other people have also witnessed him, you know what I mean? It's not like this is the first guy to like... Like the Paddy guy had witnessed him...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: After he beat that woman. So I don't understand like why he's suddenly so worried about getting recognized, but...
Em Schulz: Like, and honestly he walked right into his, that trap on his own because now that he's given them the police, his name.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. He literally by the way, said Mal, I'm Malcolm MacArthur, like gave his full first and last name.
Em Schulz: What a fucking lollipop. Like, he like...
Christine Schiefer: [laughter] Indeed.
Em Schulz: Like, I mean, 'cause at this point he's, they're gonna remember just, you know, he does such a, he is, maybe he just has a lot of anxiety because one of the things I do a lot with my anxiety is I try to overcorrect and I end up looking worse. And so...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. I know totally what you're saying. Yeah.
Em Schulz: And so I feel like maybe he's like, he's trying to be incognito and therefore he needs a fully different disguise of what he's used to and then it's like too much.
Christine Schiefer: Right. And he's trying...
Em Schulz: And so this time is like...
Christine Schiefer: Too hard to be incognito that he's adding so much bullshit to his...
Em Schulz: Yeah. And so like, maybe he's also, umm, like in this case now, he's like, oh, that didn't go the way I planned, so let me beat anyone to the punch and and call and out myself so it doesn't look as bad later.
Christine Schiefer: I'll... Yeah. I'll explain it. Before it...
Em Schulz: But all that...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: All that combined, I mean, him calling and saying his name and trying to talk about a prank is very much the verbal version of him trying to be incognito and have him disguised.
Christine Schiefer: Yes.
Em Schulz: But now he's sticking out and so I like, 'cause now in the same 24 hours he has outed himself to the police in a way, just like his disguises. They're gonna remember that because it was so off.
Christine Schiefer: Oh yeah, 100%. You're right. It's like the weird stuff he's pushing in people's faces.
Em Schulz: And like he's, umm, it's interesting because in the same 24 hours he has made this weird phone call that makes him stick out. And if they haven't called the police yet, that ambulance is super calling the police to be like, something really weird happened today.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. [laughter]
Em Schulz: He doesn't... He doesn't think that like those two things might land at the same...
Christine Schiefer: That's what it's, it's like there's no bridges between the thoughts.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Or the plans or the...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Like none of it connects...
Em Schulz: Hoo...
Christine Schiefer: In a way that makes sense to me. And I don't know how it makes sense to him. 'Cause I, it makes no sense at all.
Em Schulz: Mm.
Christine Schiefer: So he basically, like you said, is be giving the police all like all they need to know, like this...
Em Schulz: Yes.
Christine Schiefer: Guy is fucking.
Em Schulz: He might as well have given his fucking description and been like, I'm covered in blood from earlier.
Christine Schiefer: [cackles] But it was a prank though. So it's fucking...
Em Schulz: But it also looks different than what I usually look like. So it's a disguise, right?
Christine Schiefer: Right [laughter], Yeah. But there's some on my very real mustache wink. [laughter] Like exactly, Em, it's like all of this, all of this it, it's so outrageous. So anyway, he calls Harry and the police and tells them this is all a big joke. Haha. You've been punked, [laughter] umm, and of course the police officer like does not buy this at all. And he hears that there's classical music playing in the background. Like, because he is staying at this attorney general's house. [laughter] So Harry Bieling the, uh, diplomat that he had tried to rob and failed to... Also like why didn't you just take stuff from his house after the guy fled? Whatever. Okay.
Em Schulz: Also, if you know an attorney general, why don't you just go there first...
Christine Schiefer: Great point.
Em Schulz: And then wait until he went to bed and take his money?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. 'Cause you know him and he will invite you in e-exactly. So Harry had told police, uh, yeah. He was this like well-spoken, sharply dressed guy and the officer is on the phone and he hears this classical music playing and this guy's calling and saying, I'm Malcolm and I did a prank. And so he's like, okay, I am feeling very weird about all of this. I'm going to call the detectives who are covering Bridie's and Donal's murders.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: And check in with them. And he said, "Hey, we had an unusual aggravated burglary here. And the more I think about it, the more I think the fellow that did it is your man." So they're immediately having these bridged connections that he doesn't seem to be expecting.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Police start canvassing neighborhoods looking for a man they described as well-dressed and soft spoken. Uh, they told people he was exactly the opposite of who they would suspect of murder. Uh, can you imagine someone coming to your door and being like, do you know anyone who is really nice and normal and fancy, umm...
Em Schulz: But likes a prank every now and then.
Christine Schiefer: But likes a prank. [laughter] Also like you, you just said, no, you don't know a murderer, but think about someone who would not be a murderer. Do you know that person?
Em Schulz: [laughter] No I don't.
Christine Schiefer: I'd be like, oh my God is everybody. Yeah. [laughter] anyway, so they're like, it's who you don't think it is. And people are like, what the fuck? We don't know who you're looking for.
Em Schulz: What riddle is this? Yeah. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It's like a riddle. So the man who gave Malcolm a ride, the guy he hitchhiked with to Paddy Connolly's recognized the description where like, oh, I drove him to that fancy attorney general guy's house, uh, earlier today. So they go there and of course they find Patty and on the way they [laughter], Em, like, this is where last night I had had half an edible and I was reading this and I was like this, I need to highlight this 'cause I have to reread it in the morning. And I reread it in the morning and I was like, "Nope. Says the exact same thing." It is, [laughter] So bizarre. I'm like, what does this mean? Okay. So they're on their way to Paddy Connolly's house where they're gonna find him. Uh, and on the way they, they, they intercept, intercept, uh, a taxi driver and they're like, "Hey, where are you heading?" And he says he's heading to the attorney general's house to meet a guy named Malcolm. And they're like, "oh, what are you, why are you meeting him?" And he said, "I have a delivery for him. I'm delivering him some hacksaw blades." [laughter] I'm sorry.
Em Schulz: What? That's all I got.
Christine Schiefer: And so...
Em Schulz: What?
Christine Schiefer: It's like, but I don't even understand, like, did he DoorDash them from like a yellow cab, like...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: The taxi driver's like, I'm on my way to deliver some hacksaws for a guy named Malcolm. I don't know how that works. Early DoorDash, I guess.
Em Schulz: That, that, that does... That does sound like if I were high, I wouldn't, I'm not even, and I would be like, am I high? What the hell am I reading?
Christine Schiefer: [laughter] Yeah. Exactly. I was like, I feel like that doesn't make... The words don't make the sentence I think they mean, uh, I think they make and they do, they do. This guy was delivering saw blades, hack saw blades, and the police apparently knew what was going on before I did because they assumed he was going to be sawing off the shotgun that he had stolen from...
Em Schulz: Ohh.
Christine Schiefer: Donal. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: 'Cause I was thinking he's gonna start chopping limbs off of people or something.
Em Schulz: I thought he was gonna saw a human being. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: A human. Yeah. No, apparently they were a little calmer about it and realized he was probably just trying to mess with his shotgun that he stole. So anyway, they get there and they see Malcolm walking around inside the windows and Paddy is not home, so they kind of scout out the place and as they're waiting, uh, he arrives home to find a bunch of police sitting outside his house and they tell him what's going on and they storm the house and...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Malcolm, for what it's worth, gave up easily. He went quietly. And, uh, Paddy, who I can only assume had gone to the store to pick up like some sirloin steak to cook up for his special guest that night, umm, was left behind just like, what the fuck just happened? I let my best friend's husband stay with me and now he's being, umm, carted off to prison for murder.
Em Schulz: Oof. Oy. Beyond.
Christine Schiefer: So, uh, in case you needed, uh, more succinct words to put to that, Paddy was later interviewed and said, "it is very difficult to exaggerate how dumbfounded I was." [laughter] And he was like, I think I'm going to put that on a t-shirt.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: It's very difficult to exaggerate how dumbfounded I am. Umm.
Em Schulz: That's true. I can concur on that.
Christine Schiefer: So it, it's a great line. So Paddy, the attorney general, this is when he makes a bad PR move because he had planned a vacation for the following day. And he hopped on the plane and went on his vacation and people were pissed because they were like, you just housed a murderer and this is really bad taste for you to just like hop on a trip the next day and not even care. You know.
Em Schulz: Yeah. It looks like you're fleeing. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: It looks like you're just like, I'm outta here. You know? Uh, so in the end, Paddy actually ended up resigning because the controversy was so bad...
Em Schulz: Oof.
Christine Schiefer: And it essentially ruined his career. On the way to the station, Malcolm was very chatty with police. He seemed casual and calm. Umm, police were like, he was actually pretty condescending to us. [laughter] Uh, in his questioning, he admitted to both murders and seemed to have no remorse whatsoever.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: So the case against him was obviously overwhelming. Uh, they had fingerprints, witnesses, both stolen cars, both murder weapons and a signed confession. So they were like, well...
Em Schulz: Damn. Ding, ding, ding.
Christine Schiefer: Nailed it. But they were also thinking if the court determined that Malcolm's not violent and he wouldn't offend again, he would probably only serve a few years. Because apparently some murderers at the time were only serving seven years of their sentence and then released on good behavior.
Em Schulz: Oh, okay.
Christine Schiefer: But, uh, either way the public was pissed. Uh, a mob attacked Malcolm at one end of his pre-trial court appearances and his defense team, they were like, "You know what? He has no chance whatsoever to get a fair trial. And the fact that he has two murder charges make it hard to argue that he's not violent." So they were like, "You know what, can we put in a plea deal? We're gonna plead insanity. Umm, and we're gonna argue that Malcolm was in a dissociative state and unaware of any of the events that transpired." That's their new angle. However, detectives then discovered a clear handwritten plot that Malcolm had written to murder his own mother.
Em Schulz: What the fuck? Okay.
Christine Schiefer: So they were like, well, there goes that plea deal.
Em Schulz: This also like really negates that he ever wanted to rob a bank. It's like official that he just wanted to murder people.
Christine Schiefer: Great point. Whatever happened to the bank?
Em Schulz: Yeah. He just wanted to murder people.
Christine Schiefer: Right. Like it... There's no other explanation.
Em Schulz: 'Cause why else are you robbing multiple people like at gunpoint?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: It's like, and then not taking the money. Like if I were robbing someone's house and they ran away from the house I'd be like, [laughter] "Well, that's a much easier way to rob this one. "
Christine Schiefer: Jackpot! [laughter]
Em Schulz: And he just fucking left. Like he just wants to kill people.
Christine Schiefer: The... You're right. Like there's no other reasoning behind it. And he has not stolen anything successfully besides a car barely.
Em Schulz: So he's...
Christine Schiefer: So he hasn't even stolen money.
Em Schulz: So it's like three people are dead, two people are dead, and like a, and a letter, yeah about his mom soon to be dead, but no dollars, he's taken no money.
Christine Schiefer: Got $0. He just like stole another car 'cause he messed up the first time. It, it's bananas. So the defense is like, "You know what? That's not gonna work." Uh, basically pleading insanity won't work because he just admitted that he's trying to murder his mother and it's written down.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: So they're like, "Okay. You know what? He clearly knows... He wasn't dissociating 'cause he is still planning to murder people."
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Uh. So instead they... This is shocking. They secured a plea deal for Malcolm where he would plead guilty to Bridie's murder, but then they completely dropped charges for the murder of Donal.
Em Schulz: The... For the three feet away execution style murder?
Christine Schiefer: Yep. Yes.
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: They just completely... They were like, "Okay, fine. If you plead guilty to Bridie's murder then we won't charge you with the other one," which like...
Em Schulz: Can you...
Christine Schiefer: People were shocked.
Em Schulz: Imagine being that person's family?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, exact... I mean, that's exactly how the story ends. Like that they just still don't have justice.
Em Schulz: Mm.
Christine Schiefer: Like it's, it's baffling. I mean I literally listed they have two stolen cars, his fingerprints everywhere, he admitted to it, how can you get off... How can you not be charged with something you've already said, "No, I did that and I signed the paper?"
Em Schulz: And what's the reason again for why they don't wanna charge him with it?
Christine Schiefer: His defense was able to talk to the judge and say, "We want a plea deal," and he said, "Okay, fine. If he admits to Bridie's murder... "
Em Schulz: Ugh.
Christine Schiefer: "Then we won't charge." Like it doesn't even make sense.
Em Schulz: So there's not, there's not even a real reason.
Christine Schiefer: No. They would've easily slam dunked both murders. So it's very, very odd. Umm, very odd. The prosecutor filed something called nolle prosequi for the second murder charge, which is an official abandonment of action and basically completely took him, his name out of that case whatsoever.
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Uh, the public was outraged so was Donal's family, as you can imagine. Umm, the evidence was like undeniable. Uh, it didn't make... Made no sense basically to drop the second murder charge. Umm, and at his sentencing, the prosecution stood to read the evidence against Malcolm, but the judge wouldn't let them. He was like, "Nope, we're dropping it so you... We're dropping this case so you cannot even talk about, about it at all." And just...
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: Completely shut him down. It made no sense. And so a lot of rumors began to circulate about cover-ups, secret deals, uh, like class privilege, political controversy. They've never proven anything, but like people are pretty sure something very shady happened to be able to get...
Em Schulz: Sure.
Christine Schiefer: The second murder just taken off the books. So Malcolm's guilty plea for Bridie's murder did require a mandatory life sentence. Umm, and because the prosecution was not able to read the charges against this guy, read the evidence, the public was even more pissed, umm, and this controversy just lasted for a very long time. So he ended up serving 30 years in prison only, and he was released in 2012 at the age of 66.
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: And, uh, for, for many years he was silent and, uh, no matter how many people asked why he did what he did, uh, or for an apology they got nothing. And it wasn't until 2020 when a writer named Mark O'Connell approached him on the street in Dublin and said, "I'd like to write about you." And so they spoke for months. Uh, Malcolm told him everything about his life, the killings and so we do now have at least some clarity. Umm, Malcolm insists that he did in fact feel remorse for the killings even though he never showed it and he says he thinks people want him to get emotional to prove that he feels guilty, but he prefers to be dignified.
Em Schulz: Barf.
Christine Schiefer: Uh, he... Yeah disgusto. He also spoke about how important it was, uh, to be polite and well-mannered. Umm, somebody...
Em Schulz: Also barf.
Christine Schiefer: Who just bashed a woman's face in with a hammer. Okay, you're gonna be...
Em Schulz: Yeah that's dignified.
Christine Schiefer: Well-mannered and polite and dignified? So when Mark commented on that Malcolm said, "Well, it confirms my knowledge of myself. I think of myself as a normal person. People who know me well regard me as a very likable person. I have a high likeability"
Em Schulz: Name three. [laughter] Name three.
Christine Schiefer: Name one. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Name anybody who likes you.
Christine Schiefer: He literally says Em, quote, "I have a high likability factor." [laughter]
Em Schulz: Bitch where?
Christine Schiefer: This guy.
Em Schulz: Like what are you talking about?
Christine Schiefer: Bitch where? Name three. Okay.
Em Schulz: That's what the owls would say.
Christine Schiefer: I have a that... [laughter] I feel like I'm becoming an owl. I feel like I'm a wannabe owl you know.
Em Schulz: That's when it... Like when he said, "Oh, people like me," as an owl I'd go, "Who?"
Christine Schiefer: [cackles] We've become the owls. [laughter] I'm just cackling at your stupid puns and we're in our little hootenanny.
Em Schulz: It would be... And, and there'd be seven at max of all of us going who, who, who, who, who, who.
Christine Schiefer: Who, who, who, who, who. [laughter] That is so good, Em, oh my God. I've like cry laughed a lot today. [laughter] Whoo. [laughter] Oh my God. Okay, somebody better make some, some fun drawings out of this episode because umm, it is long. Okay.
Em Schulz: Pigtails. Mean girl. [laughter] Bitch who.
Christine Schiefer: Bitch who, who, who. So anyway, he says, "I have a high likability factor and I like people. I'm very good with people." This sounds like Donald Trump honestly. [laughter] "I like people, I'm very good with people. I am sympathetic and empathetic and all those things. I have always deplored language or behavior that is sexist or misogynistic, that is disrespectful or objectifying or crude." And then he says, and you can quote him on this, "I don't think I've ever been unmannerly in my life." And then there was a pause, and then he said, "apart from the criminal episode itself, yes, those were crimes."
Em Schulz: [laughter] I'm pretty great, except for the multiple murders. [chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: You're right, that was a crime. Nobody's questioning whether it was a crime [laughter]
Em Schulz: Before you call me out. That's a fair fight. But...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Em Schulz: Other than that, I'm pretty good.
Christine Schiefer: It was also a big prank, prank. And I thought it was hilarious, but nobody else did.
Em Schulz: Even the police didn't laugh...
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: I don't understand.
Christine Schiefer: It's so weird. The judge was not amused. So Malcolm still to this day, lives in Dublin as a free man. He, uh, seems to believe that his explanation, his motive for the killings has been made clear to everyone, and that his actions made total sense. He says he needed a money, a car, and a weapon, so he killed for them. And of course, the victim's families are like still so shaken and rattled by this. And the fact that he's like, "Oh, I think it makes perfect sense why I killed them" is like really, really awful for them to live with.
Em Schulz: Fully delusional.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, totally crazy. And Donal's family petitioned for charges to be brought back against Malcolm. And even though they got 10,000 signatures, it failed to inspire any movement on it. And he still has not been charged with Donal's murder to this day.
Em Schulz: Mm.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, of course they've never let the crimes go. Umm, and they said their pain just is never ending, especially once Malcolm was released in 2012, and they feel like they're never gonna get justice. So at the time, umm, the head of the Irish government, uh, Taoiseach, which is like sort of the prime minister or president, uh, famously called the crimes. Now I think this is actually a good ender called the crimes. And his name is Charles Haughey. Hohi, Haughey?
Em Schulz: Hmm, Haughey.
Christine Schiefer: He famously called the crimes quote, "Grotesque, Unbelievable, Bizarre and Unprecedented." And the acronym GUBU became notorious in Ireland. And it's become a word to signify scandals, like especially in politics.
Em Schulz: Oh, okay.
Christine Schiefer: The word GUBU for, I feel like that is the T-shirt that the owls wear. It says GUBU and it stands for...
Em Schulz: What's... It says GUBU Hoo?
Christine Schiefer: GUBU Hoo [laughter] Yeah. It stands for Grotesque, Unbelievable, Bizarre and Unprecedented. Which does sound like something the hoot nanny would say, uh, behind the scenes.
Em Schulz: Yeah. For sure. Wow. A GUBU.
Christine Schiefer: So upon his release... [laughter] GUBU Hoo? So upon his release, Malcolm returned to Dublin and got back to the life he always enjoyed spending his time at bookstores, libraries, and art shows, and being a fancy man about town. And that is the story of Malcolm MacArthur.
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: All done.
Em Schulz: Well done. [laughter] But still psychotic.
Christine Schiefer: Uh. It's just, it's, it's beyond really. I mean, I don't, and I feel bad that I, I even watched a video to figure out how to pronounce that man's name Haughey.
Em Schulz: It, it...
Christine Schiefer: I don't know, doesn't matter but.
Em Schulz: When someone has to come up with a new acronym to describe how fucked up your situation was, like, how dare somebody in today's world walking around right now go, "I feel like I was justified." If every other person on Earth like doesn't agree with you...
Christine Schiefer: And I feel like it's obvious. Yeah.
Em Schulz: You're, you're the common denominator, babe. Like, you're, nobody's agreeing. Like you're, you stand alone here.
Christine Schiefer: You're... It's so bizarre. And then he is like, I've never been rude in my life.
Em Schulz: You fucking bashed someone's head in. What you talking about?
Christine Schiefer: Right? Like, imagine hearing that from someone who murdered your daughter, your 27-year-old daughter. Like, like, "Oh, I, I've never been rude. I'm such a dignified person."
Em Schulz: Go to the family, the family members of the people you brutally murdered for no reason. And by the way, also for no fucking money.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: And tell them I've, I didn't do anything wrong. Anyone could have done this. What?
Christine Schiefer: Anyone, anyone would've done this. It's like, are you serious? And he's like, "Ooh no I feel bad."
Em Schulz: Go tell it to your mom who you fucking wrote a premeditated murder note about.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, what the fuck!
Em Schulz: What are you, what are you talking about? I guarantee you she doesn't fucking spend time alone in a room with you now. And you wonder why.
Christine Schiefer: No this is, this is why I read it and was like, I genuinely don't know if somebody bashed him in the head by mistake. Like, I cannot figure out what the fuck happened to this guy unless he's just always been a narcissist and was able to like, pull it off long enough and then snap. I don't know.
Em Schulz: It's just shocking that there are people out there who murderers or not, like that you just are just, just awful morals, no morals and like, you're just like but...
Christine Schiefer: No morals.
Em Schulz: Everyone understands. What are you talking about?
Christine Schiefer: Like, you get it. It's obvious.
Em Schulz: Says who, says who? What are you talking about?
Christine Schiefer: Who, who, who, who? [laughter]
Em Schulz: Oh God. Anyway, great story Christine.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Name three people. Name three people.
Em Schulz: You, me and the birds. The trees. We speak for the trees. [laughter] umm.
Christine Schiefer: Are we both high? What's happening? [laughter]
Em Schulz: I feel like I am that, that story made no fucking real sense so.
Christine Schiefer: I'm serious.
Em Schulz: Umm, well thank you for that story. I, I do love when you bring a real humdinger to the plate. So thank you for the home run.
Christine Schiefer: You're so welcome.
Em Schulz: And, uh, I guess anyone who wants to hang out with us even further for some reason...
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: You can hop over to Patreon and listen to us hang out during After Hours?
Christine Schiefer: After Hours.
Em Schulz: And, umm, and we can, we can talk more. But unfortunately our time has come to an end here. Umm, I know. Don't let me go, but [laughter] umm, well, we'll, we'll be back...
Christine Schiefer: Sorry shouldn't have laughed so hard.
Em Schulz: [laughter] We'll be back next Sunday with some more bullshit for you, and...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I love the sign-off, that's...
Em Schulz: Why...
Christine Schiefer: We...
Em Schulz: Drink.
