[Intro music]
Christine Schiefer: Hi.
Em Schulz: Oh Christine.
Christine Schiefer: What? [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Nothing. We just... We just... We just recorded. We were just being silly and it was...
Christine Schiefer: It was goof... A couple of goof... A couple of goofballs.
Em Schulz: Couple of silly geese, you know?
Christine Schiefer: Hmm...
Em Schulz: How are you? I feel like so much has happened since I've seen you, but also not really. Like...
Christine Schiefer: Well, you know, I'm recovering from herpes, as you can see on my face.
Em Schulz: Are you actually?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, I have uhm...
Em Schulz: Do you... You have herpes? I didn't know that.
Christine Schiefer: Well...
Em Schulz: Simplex 1, 2? What's the situation?
Christine Schiefer: The cold sores? I don't know. I don't know what they're called. But it fucking sucks.
Em Schulz: Hmm. It sucks.
Christine Schiefer: I've had them since I was a baby, but yeah. So I'm... You know, I'm okay. Thank you for asking. I've been... I've looked like uhm quite a gremlin for several days now because I really just had like cold... Okay, it's 'cause we've been doing so much traveling and we were so overwhelmed and like it was just...
Christine Schiefer: And Blaise and Leona came, which is like awesome, obviously, but then there's the downside.
Em Schulz: Also exhausting.
Christine Schiefer: It's so much more work, and like packing and you know, just... Like, I don't know, all the logistics. And it's been just been a very crazy couple of weeks for our touring. Uhm.
Christine Schiefer: And the last day of the trip, I woke up and my whole face had just completely...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Broken out in, in like these fucking giant cold sores. My whole body like shut down. I was like, "Okay, I've clearly been overwhelmed."
Em Schulz: I think it... I think uhm... I mean I obviously didn't have the exact same situation, but I think it's, I've accepted at this point that like, okay, after a tour, like I'm gonna burn out. Like I'm gonna have...
Christine Schiefer: It's wild. It's a lot.
Em Schulz: Well also it's 'cause it's a lot of uhm short travel hopping where like...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: I feel like when I'm at home, I'm just on a really long layover. Like it...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, and you don't really get a minute to like breathe and, you know. We were in New York and it's just so much craziness happening back to back to back.
Em Schulz: And also, this isn't... This isn't me trying to like make our, my sob story worse than yours because this just happened to be uhm... Just because these last shows happened to be on the East Coast, it just, for me and Eva in particular, it's a harder travel.
Christine Schiefer: Oh yeah.
Em Schulz: Because it's two extra travel days, which happens to you when you come to the West Coast. But its, man, it's just from going to Florida to then having, to coming home for like basically to pack, just to go back to the East Coast. Phew. It's a doozy.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. I'm shocked you don't have herpes too. I gave you hand-foot-and-mouth. I'm waiting.
Em Schulz: Well, we did make out after that show, so.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, right. True. So it's just bound to happen. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Uh, no, but you know what, I'm gonna... I did... It's interesting you bring that up, and I don't have what you have, but to bounce back to a few episodes ago when your baby gave me hand-foot-and-mouth, is that what it's called?
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: I just, every time I say it, I sound like my mother. 'Cause every time I say the name of it, it's three different body parts, I'm like, "Leg, arm and tongue." You know?
Christine Schiefer: Elbow, knee and, yeah.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: But so, uh...
Christine Schiefer: Look at us naming body parts. We're so impressive.
Em Schulz: Look at us.
Christine Schiefer: What a hilarious comedy show we do.
[chuckle]
Em Schulz: Well, so uh recent developments, after all of, you know, that cleared up on my face, obviously I've been fine for a while, but uhm I still had uh blisters that were healing this entire time on the bottom of my feet.
Christine Schiefer: Hmm.
Em Schulz: And yesterday, they decided that it was time to open. And...
Christine Schiefer: Cool.
Em Schulz: Uhm. Are you one of those people who likes to see gross pictures, or no?
Christine Schiefer: Yes.
Em Schulz: Okay, I'm gonna show you a picture and we maybe...
Christine Schiefer: Unless it's a needle and then I don't want it.
Em Schulz: No, no, no, no, no, but I will show you, uhm... I'm glad I asked first because this is a real doozy.
Christine Schiefer: I'm glad you asked first too. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: So basically my entire heel became one big, big open blister.
Christine Schiefer: Cool.
Em Schulz: And I'm just gonna text you, I'm not gonna text...
[overlapping conversation]
Christine Schiefer: I was gonna say, we did not get the consent yet from Eva.
Em Schulz: I am pretty sure Eva is not a gross image voyeur.
Christine Schiefer: Also like as our... As her employer technically, I feel like...
Em Schulz: Oh yeah. [chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: That's kind of a line that maybe we should leave her out of, you know?
Em Schulz: Okay so that's...
Christine Schiefer: Body part pictures.
Em Schulz: So that's what it looked like. And that's how I knew it was time.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, hold on. Oh boy. Oh boy. [chuckle] It's a gnarly one.
Em Schulz: So both of my feet looked like that.
Christine Schiefer: Oof. You know what it looks like?
Em Schulz: What?
Christine Schiefer: Those things you put on your feet.
Em Schulz: It looks like an infomercial for like when you're...
Christine Schiefer: And then all the skin comes off? Yeah.
Em Schulz: Yeah. But like literally like...
Christine Schiefer: Oof. [chuckle] I just got the second...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Oh Eva, I'm jealous of you.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It's gnarly.
Em Schulz: It does look like my foot had been sitting in like leather or something and just the whole foot fell off, so... Uhm. It's very disgusting. But that's what happened to me as soon as I got off the plane and I was like, "Oh, okay. Well, at least now I think we can finally say that the disease has run its course.
Christine Schiefer: It's passed. Yeah, it's run its course.
Em Schulz: It's officially done. So I'm sorry that you're not suffering with sores on your face. Been there.
Christine Schiefer: Anyway, I don't have any great photos of it for you, but uh...
Em Schulz: Do send them though, because I love a gross picture.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah, they're not fun. I've been getting cold sores since as a baby. It just sucks. You know? I'm sure everybody...
Em Schulz: Does it just feel like canker... I've had canker sores. Like the ones in your mouth?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, it's similar, but it's almost like... They're just so painful, like they're really painful. And anything that touches like, so I'll get them on one part of my lip, but then it's like it spreads 'cause anything it like touches, so it's like your whole mouth just gets...
Em Schulz: What's the radius? Like if it, if you touch the sore and then you scratch your face, can it happen up here? Or just...
Christine Schiefer: I don't think so. I know you can, because... [chuckle] Never mind, I shouldn't say. Uhm. I know... Hmm, how do I put this delicately?
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Uh, I know that it is possible to be transferred from mouth to someone's genitalia.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm, yes.
Christine Schiefer: So I know that that's a thing. Uhm. But I think it spreads like on your skin. I think it's like typically your mouth and your down there.
Em Schulz: Uh-huh. Understood.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Understood. Well...
Christine Schiefer: Listen, that's what Google tells me. Okay, people? I don't do have any other answers for ya.
Em Schulz: Well, I'm sorry you're going through that, so I don't know how to make it better for you, but uh...
Christine Schiefer: I know. You can tell me a ghost story.
Em Schulz: What a segue.
Em Schulz: Uhm. So interestingly, my story this week, I actually did these notes before like our Florida show.
Christine Schiefer: Whoa.
Em Schulz: So we're gonna be learning together.
Christine Schiefer: Oh great.
[chuckle]
Em Schulz: I have definitely forgotten this information. Uhm. But so I do remember the way that I got to this information is because I was... Something happened in the news. At this point, I feel bad because when I did these notes, I thought I would be recording soon and the information would be relevant and topical, but now it's probably been a little while and people are over it. I don't care.
Christine Schiefer: And then it's gonna come out in like a month and we're gonna be like... Well...
Em Schulz: Yeah so we're discussing it now. Sorry, folks. But people kept tagging me in this news that there was an incident with a Ouija board and several students. And...
Christine Schiefer: I don't know anything. I'm shocked that I didn't see this. Usually I'm like tagged every now and then in these, and like I just see the glimpse of it. Uhm. But no, I have never even heard of this.
Em Schulz: Well, so I looked that up and I thought, "Okay, maybe I'll cover it as a whole story," but it ended up kinda just being like a short news article that was getting copy and pasted to every source, and...
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: More or less the same article every time I looked it up. So I am gonna talk about it real quick, but the... What ended up happening afterwards, so I was like, "Wow, that was really interesting. I wonder what else is going on in paranormal news?" And that leads into today's actual story.
Em Schulz: So just to update everybody, in case you're Christine and did not know about this Ouija board incident, uh, this happened February 27th of this year, 2023. And there were 28 girls in Colombia, at, I hope I'm saying it right. Uh, Galeras Educational Institution. Uh. So they were students at the school. And all 28 girls were hospitalized after having anxiety and fainting episodes.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no.
Em Schulz: And many parents of the girls blamed a Ouija board that the girls were playing with right before they passed out.
Christine Schiefer: So, Is this a school... Are you... You're telling this story, right?
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Before I ask questions that are obvious? Okay.
Em Schulz: You can ask the questions anyway.
Christine Schiefer: I was just wondering, is it like... How old were they? Was it like high school or like college?
Em Schulz: High school.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, high school. Okay.
Em Schulz: High school. Uhm. So it's unclear if the Ouija board was like used at school for a class? Or if someone like brought it in or something?
Christine Schiefer: Ooh. Professor Em's... No, not professor... Professor Christine's class.
[chuckle]
Em Schulz: Yeah, yeah. Definately. Professor...
Christine Schiefer: You would not allow that behavior. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: If you and I were professors at the same school, I'd be like, "I request the building across. As far away as possible."
Christine Schiefer: You, we would have feud. It would be so wild.
Em Schulz: Uhm. So the protocol that, you know, came out of this was that they sent the children to the hospital. And the school, as of when I did these notes, is now awaiting medical reports before any updates for the public.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. My oh my.
Em Schulz: But two of the students uhm, that were hospitalized had pre-existing medical conditions, but not the other 26. So...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, and also like same, but, you know.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Is it specifically a fainting disease? Maybe. I don't know.
Em Schulz: Hey, I'm going through it right now. So maybe. [chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: That's true. You literally are. Yeah. That's a great point.
Em Schulz: Maybe it's because of that time you made me play with a Ouija board, Christine.
Christine Schiefer: Wait, don't you dare piggy-back on these people.
[chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: Don't you dare. I'm not participating in that.
Em Schulz: Well, so this story, which like I'm, it could have been... It could have been as simple as like, "Oh, group of girls that all go to the same school together, played with a Ouija board."
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: And then it is weird that all of a sudden they all started having a fainting, fainting spells.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Uhm. But the story kind of started spreading like wildfire, and the head of the school, he asked people not to spread any more information 'cause they were causing hysteria in their like community.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no.
Em Schulz: Especially because there's no evidence of Ouija board-caused illnesses, to be clear. Uhm. But there's this one guy who enters the scene, which I thought was so odd, his name is Chris DeFlorio, and he's a former NYPD cop. Uhm. And he gave up his life as a cop and became an exorcist.
[chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: Sorry. We were just talking about, uh, what is it called? The Death Files? Or Dead Files? And the cop who like...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Now does a ghost show. And I'm like, his name is also like De-Something-No. Like they're all...
Em Schulz: It's always like a, like a tough bookie kinda.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, what is the...
Em Schulz: I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: Hold on. I wanna look up "Dead Files cop". [chuckle]
Em Schulz: A tough and rumble kinda guy.
Christine Schiefer: DiSchiavi. So it's like, what's this guy? De-Something-O?
Em Schulz: DeFlorio.
Christine Schiefer: DeFlorio, DiSchiavi, they're all leaving the force to...
Em Schulz: They should have their own, their own tag-team, like Law & Order paranormal...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, interesting. I would watch that on Discovery Plus, for sure.
Em Schulz: I would... I would for sure. Uh. But anyway, he became an exorcist and he runs a non-profit in New York called The Demonic Investigation.
Christine Schiefer: Sorry [chuckle] non-profit. Okay.
Em Schulz: I know. And he, uh, he claims that what happened is when the girls were using the Ouija board, they opened the doorway to evil, which...
Christine Schiefer: Oh no.
Em Schulz: That seems kind of like you didn't have to become an exorcist to guess that.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: I feel like a lot of people probably guessed it that kept their jobs.
Christine Schiefer: But he probably did have to become an NYPD cop to figure that one out though. You know what I mean?
Em Schulz: Yeah, he had... He had a hunch and...
Christine Schiefer: The Academy really taught him about...
Em Schulz: They love their hunches.
[chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: Portals to evil.
[chuckle]
Em Schulz: So I feel like he had that hunch on a different case and they were like, "You should leave this job and go be something else."
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, "Maybe you should find a new... New hobby." [chuckle] And he did.
Em Schulz: So he now travels the country performing exorcisms with his wife, so that's a power couple right there.
Christine Schiefer: This sounds like whatcha-ma-call 'ems?
Em Schulz: The Warrens?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, a little bit. Or just like the, those power couple type thing.
Em Schulz: I think because there's so few power couples in the paranormal world. [chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: That's true, else similar except the ghost part, yeah.
Em Schulz: So uh, he travels with his wife, they do exorcisms. And uh, when asked about the case, he said it is not an isolated event that these 28 girls ended up hospitalized from using a Ouija board, because there are officially five schools in Colombia that have had incidents... Incidents? Incidences? After...
Christine Schiefer: I think it's "incidents". It's one of my pet peeves 'cause it's like "an incident".
Em Schulz: Incidents. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: So it's "incidents".
Em Schulz: You're right.
Christine Schiefer: I don't know. I hope I'm right, otherwise Twitter will tell me.
Em Schulz: Anyway. They said... He says that there are officially five different schools in Colombia that have had a Ouija board caused incident.
Christine Schiefer: What the fuck?
Em Schulz: One included a group of teenagers after playing with a Ouija board. All having abdominal pain, muscle spasms and then passing out.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: And 11 students were injured and five were hospitalized.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my god.
Em Schulz: So that's one of the other cases that sounds similar, I guess, to him. It happens to be in Colombia, they're high school students, and it's all after they've played with a Ouija board.
Christine Schiefer: That's weird.
Em Schulz: Uhm, most of the cases, I will say have been dismissed as like they were playing with a Ouija board and then came in contact with contaminated food or water, and it could just be like food poisoning.
Christine Schiefer: Are they just like constantly playing Ouija boards down there and it just happens to be the only thing they can point to? It's so odd.
Em Schulz: Yeah, I have no idea. But we do leave off on a quote from him that says, "One possibility is that something evil is happening in the area, that is targeting children spiritually and is not being addressed." But a lot of people are also like, it's just...
Christine Schiefer: Food poisoning. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Contaminated water. Yeah, it's just food poisoning.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no.
Em Schulz: Anyway, that all made... That's the story of what's going on. There are 28 girls and we don't know any updates. So it became kind of a bit of a dud for me to cover it fully.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I see. Oh, I see. Okay.
Em Schulz: So then I was like, "Well, what else is going on in the paranormal world?" And that's when I learned... I never learned how to say this word either, uhm, so...
Christine Schiefer: I'm ready, I'm ready. I'm ready, I'm ready.
Em Schulz: Well, it's the production company that does all the scary movies. So is it Blumhouse or Bloomhouse? I say Blumhouse.
Christine Schiefer: Shit. I don't... Blumhouse, I think?
Em Schulz: I think it's Blumhouse. I don't...
Christine Schiefer: I don't know. Maybe it's Bloom... I don't know. I don't know.
Em Schulz: Microsoft Christine, I thought you were gonna handle it with the words?
Christine Schiefer: Well, I'm sorry. With the proper nouns, I'm no good. You know what I mean?
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So... Okay. So I was looking into paranormal news, and it said that Blumhouse acquired the rights to the story of The Moffitt Family Haunting. So since they've acquired this, the story to this haunting I never heard of, I was like, "Okay, well, I'm gonna look into that." And that's how we get to my topic today, which is the Moffitt family story.
Christine Schiefer: Oh man. I can't wait.
Em Schulz: So there is the mom, Deborah, and uh there is a daughter, Jessica, that's mainly who we talk about today. Uhm. And in 2015, Deborah wrote a book called, Unwelcomed: The True Story of The Moffitt Family Haunting.
Em Schulz: And seven years later, last year, 2022, Jessica published an article about their story in Huff Post, and I gotta give this article specifically a shoutout because this was Jessica's first-hand account. A lot of quotes from this from my notes come directly from her. Uhm.
Em Schulz: And one thing that I wanna mention is that uh, in some of the sources I saw, it said that they called the ghost that was haunting them, Mr. Entity.
Christine Schiefer: Ew. I hate it. Hate it.
Em Schulz: But... But I never saw that in her actual article, so I don't know if that's true or maybe that's like...
Christine Schiefer: Maybe that's like a Blumhouse uh...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Like revision, you know? Just like a little artistic license.
Em Schulz: That same thought too.
Christine Schiefer: And I'm saying "Bloomhouse" 'cause you're saying "Blumhouse", so that one of us is right.
Em Schulz: One of... One of us is right. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Just for fun. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Makes total sense. Uh. But yeah, so in theory, the spirit is called Mr. Entity, but I didn't see that...
Christine Schiefer: Uhg.
Em Schulz: Come out of Jessica's article, so I just didn't really say anything about it. Uhm. But anyway, I'm gonna start out hot with a quote. "My grandmother constantly warned my brothers and me never to speak about anything we witness in our home."
Christine Schiefer: [gasp] "And here I am writing an article on huffpost.com"
[laughter]
Em Schulz: "Sorry, Grandma." So uh, the family lived in Rancho, and it was...
Christine Schiefer: Rancho.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Which by the way, has a Minor League team I'm obsessed with, the Rancho Cucamonga Quakes.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Uhm. And so Jessica lived with her brothers, her mom, her dad, and then her grandma named Lee. And uh, Jessica says that the house was very creepy, the family definitely had PTSD living there as far as she can remember, but she didn't totally know why. She just remembered, especially her dad and her grandma being freaked the fuck out in their house, for what she thought was no reason.
Em Schulz: She was just like, "They are so paranoid and I don't know what's going on."
Christine Schiefer: Weird.
Em Schulz: And here's a quote about that. "The strangest sight of all was the unexplained behavior of my family. At sunset, Dad would creep through the halls like a trespasser. After dark, he wouldn't leave my parents' bedroom unless mom or one of the kids escorted him. Grandma gave a panicked once-over to every room she entered, no matter the time of day."
Christine Schiefer: Oh my god, that must be traumatizing alone as a child, to be like, "Why are my parents so scared?"
Em Schulz: Oh, so then she goes into saying that this behavior and the secrecy of like, "Don't talk about what's going on in the house," even though she didn't know what was going on in the house, except them acting weird. Uhm. This behavior made Jessica a little bit of a like a recluse for a while.
Christine Schiefer: Aw.
Em Schulz: Like made her really introverted, she became really reserved. Uhm. And she even said she would hide away in the house instead of make friends. Uhm. And she often danced around speaking her mind because she didn't... She was always like kind of, "Am I gonna slip up if I say this? Am I gonna slip up... "
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I thought you meant She danced around the house speaking her mind. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Oh, oh. No.
Christine Schiefer: I was like, that doesn't seem very reserved to me, but I guess in Em Land that is not extroverted enough.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: To dance around speaking your mind. "I think you guys are crazy," so she said to her dad and grandma.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Oh boy.
Em Schulz: Pas de bourree, pas de bourree. "You're crazy. You're crazy."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Well, let me guess. MacBeth's tights also had a part in the fucking...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Okay. No, she metaphorically danced around...
Christine Schiefer: I understood. Okay.
Em Schulz: The concept of speaking her mind.
Christine Schiefer: My bad.
Em Schulz: Sorry, I really need to figure out how to speak at 30 years old.
Christine Schiefer: No, it's not you. I think my brain just sometimes combines things and goes, "What a cool visual image," and then realizes that's not what's happening.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Well, unfortunately, no. But so, and then basically her behavior, it made her feel really introverted for a while, and after her grandma and father passed away, it was just her and her mom at the house. And her mom was cleaning out the bedroom closet and found a bunch of old photos.
Christine Schiefer: Hmm.
Em Schulz: So Jessica said, this is a longer quote, but very crucial to the story. Uhm. So it's just the two of them after everyone's passed and her mom has found these photos. And Jessica says, "I assume she was reviewing the happy memories from her life with my father, but when I looked at the photographs, I didn't understand what I was seeing."
Em Schulz: "Every photograph was strange, some horrifying. A knife thrust into a picture of my grandmother on the wall."
Christine Schiefer: Huh?
Em Schulz: "A group... A group of bizarre shapes scratched into a door. Bright words written on a mirror that read 'Lee die'."
Christine Schiefer: Ah.
Em Schulz: And all of a sudden it's now clicking like something is going on in this house.
Christine Schiefer: What the fuck?
Em Schulz: One... One photo, uh, I guess there were a few photos, but one that I saw. Uhm. On the floor, there was like... It looked like powder. Looked like baby powder or something. That was drawn into like weird shapes. It was like a squiggly arrow one time.
Christine Schiefer: Ugh.
Em Schulz: It looked like, like all this was being written out basically in baby powder either on the rug or like somehow on a bathroom mirror. But it was always this weird white writing.
Christine Schiefer: Gross.
Em Schulz: Uhm. And it was all over the house when she was a kid, so now she's seeing pictures of it and it's in an eerie way and... So her mom says this, this is a quote from her mom, "I can't believe your father kept any of these photos. He and your grandmother were afraid to talk about it. They thought we'd bring it back if we did. You're going to... You're going to have a hard time believing what I want to tell you."
Christine Schiefer: No.
Em Schulz: Maybe I shouldn't. You and your brothers have come along this far without knowing, but something horrible happened to us a long time ago. It's up to you if you want to hear it. There was something with us for a long time. Some people told us it was a ghost or a demon, we only knew it as the entity."
Christine Schiefer: Okay. [chuckle] Let's just take a breath. [chuckle] I'm really freaked out already. Just like, "Oh, uh, it's up to you if you wanna know." It's like, "Well now I have to know. Thanks a lot, Mom. Jesus."
Em Schulz: I feel like after I saw pictures of like a knife stabbed through...
Christine Schiefer: True.
Em Schulz: My grandma's face, I'd be like, "Hmm, I don't know if I wanna know." [chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Like maybe let me just live in my own world where this is all a fun play, a skit, that they were doing.
Em Schulz: I feel like that one quote from that one article is what Blumhouse was like, "We have to get the rights to this."
Christine Schiefer: Totally.
Em Schulz: Uhm. But yeah, she was like, "Something happened to us a long time ago." And Jessica asked, "Were we haunted?" And the mom said, "We were terrorized."
Christine Schiefer: [gasp] Goosecam.
Em Schulz: Goosecam. I wonder if that will be the first clip of the movie? So...
Christine Schiefer: What, me saying, "Goosecam"?
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It was like, "Oh yeah, I doubt it," Em. "But maybe."
Em Schulz: It was actually of Jessica pas de bourree-ing through the kitchen, so brave with her speaking of the mind.
[chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: So brave. Aw.
Em Schulz: So in 1987, this is where the story now takes place, in 1987, before Jessica was born, uhm, it all started with that white writing that appeared on the mirror in the bathroom. And it was the first time that there was ever writing on this mirror. And it said, "No escape."
Christine Schiefer: Oh cool. Good start.
Christine Schiefer: Eventually the home would see regular poltergeist activity, uhm, and it was all documented in the saved pictures, which Dear Christine, I just might have for you.
Christine Schiefer: No.
Em Schulz: Alright.
Christine Schiefer: Eva, You don't need to consent to these, okay? Don't worry, I don't think they're as scary as Em's foot.
Em Schulz: Nothing's as scary as my foot. That was...
[chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: That's the ultimate trigger warning.
Em Schulz: Uhm, okay. So these are a lot of pictures, I gotta be honest. Uhm.
Christine Schiefer: That's fine.
Em Schulz: But I'm... I would rather us post some of them like maybe throughout the episode, like put them in the corner or something, so people can see, and then we'll put some on Instagram too.
Christine Schiefer: Ooh. Okay.
Em Schulz: Okay, so here is the first sign of activity.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: Uh, okay, so that was the first one. And then here's uhm some of the arrows, this is like some of the other white writing that they would find around the house.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, no. That's not good.
Em Schulz: And then, as I just said, they were dealing with a lot of poltergeist activity, such as this.
Christine Schiefer: You know that creeps me out by the way, the poltergeist shit. Oh my god! Oh my god. Okay, folks. It is a four-poster bed that has just been like, oop, tilted diagonally and put up.
Em Schulz: Yeah, it's like maybe leaning against a wall or something, but it looks like it's flying off the floor.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, like diagonally almost. It's very unsettling to look at.
Em Schulz: So that just became part of their norm in the house. Uhm.
Christine Schiefer: Geez.
Em Schulz: And apparently, the photos were, quote, "show... " Uh, the photos that Jessica is now seeing while hearing these stories of like paranormal assaults on the house.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Apparently the photos, quote, "Showcased daily damages levied against our house with symbols gouged into walls and whole rooms tossed into disarray."
Christine Schiefer: What the fuck?
Em Schulz: So here's another picture, this is uh, of their bed just completely ripped apart. And then...
Christine Schiefer: Oh my god! Something has just like torn the foam out of the mattresses, like just the shredded the mattress.
Em Schulz: It looks like Wolverine came into your bedroom.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: And then here are some of the uhm, shapes that were being etched into the walls.
Christine Schiefer: Ew.
Em Schulz: Uhm.
Christine Schiefer: It looks almost like chalk or like... Oh no, like they scrape through the paint. Oh god.
Em Schulz: Yeah. It's real crazy. And then uhm...
Christine Schiefer: It's like an arrow and a rectangle and a plus sign.
Em Schulz: Yeah, and so... Yeah, so there's a bunch of weird writing going on on the walls, on the floors. Things are being lifted off the ground, being torn apart. And more writing would later appear to the family, instead of just "no escape" and these weird little shapes.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Uhm. Eventually, the writing would turn into, quote, "Demands, insults, threats. Every message conveyed was a chilling human intelligence."
Christine Schiefer: I don't like that.
Em Schulz: If the family to leave, by the way, because a lot of people say, "Well, why didn't you just leave a house like this," uhm, the entity would follow them. And apparently it would leave these same words and signs on windows where they were staying.
Christine Schiefer: So basically, they're just screwed?
Em Schulz: Yeah. It's following them everywhere. And the leading theory seems to be that it was following wherever grandma went.
Christine Schiefer: Ah. I see.
Em Schulz: And noticeably, out of all the activity, Grandma Lee was the prime focus of the spirit, and she would be terrorized by this thing. She would feel chased. There were items of hers that would move or be broken. Uhm. Literal knives were found in her furniture.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: I don't know if that was like... Like she might accidentally sit on it or something? But then as I mentioned, they're... Here, I'll send you that picture. This is a knife in their family tree.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. In the family tree is very spooky, 'cause it's like a picture of her on the tree and the knife is directly in her picture only.
Em Schulz: And in a wall.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, there's a little dog down there. At least it didn't go to the dog.
Em Schulz: Yeah. So now they're just walking around and finding knives in their walls.
Christine Schiefer: Cool.
Em Schulz: Uh, and so again, she would feel chased, things would happen to her. And she allegedly thought that the spirit was a punishment from God because her dad was apparently, like all of ours, apparently, a hitman for the mob.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. [chuckle] I was like, "What are you about to say? All of our dads are what?"
Em Schulz: Well, it sounds like all of us are somehow connected. And...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah.
Em Schulz: But so apparently her dad was a hitman for the mob, and so she always thought that the spirit was coming after her as like a punishment for her relationship with him. And even creepier, one time, some of the writing on the mirror said that the grandma belonged to the entity.
Christine Schiefer: I don't like that one bit.
Em Schulz: So the family reached out to anyone in the paranormal world that would be willing to help. Apparently they even reached out to the Warrens, and Lorraine said uh, that when she went into the house, that it was a powerful demon. Which like...
Christine Schiefer: Duh. Thanks. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: I don't need to be... I don't need to be a Lorraine Warren to tell you a random knife and my face on a wall is like not good news.
Christine Schiefer: But you do need to go to the police academy and join the NYPD, 'cause that's where you learn all of this stuff.
Em Schulz: And then quit, to become the excorsist...
Christine Schiefer: And then quit.
Em Schulz: I've always meant... have always been destined to be.
[chuckle]
Em Schulz: So a parapsychologist also investigated and believed that the spirit was so active, this is like where it gets maybe a little true crime-y, Christine, so.
Christine Schiefer: Oh boy.
Em Schulz: A parapsychologist investigated and said, "Okay, there is something here, but it must be so active. Because the only way it's this active is because someone is allowing it to be here and giving it permission to stick around the house."
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: So now we got a "whodunnit" kind of thing, of...
Christine Schiefer: Whodunnit.
Em Schulz: Who is keeping this door open between both worlds?
Christine Schiefer: Interesting.
Em Schulz: And uh, that parapsychologist was onto something, maybe, but it definitely uhm led to a... It led to a new theory. Because the parapsychologist said, "Oh, someone here must be keeping the worlds open for this thing to come through."
Em Schulz: But what really happened is the mom later found out, she walked into the bathroom on time and caught her father, the grandpa wiping off writing that he had left for the entity on the bathroom mirror.
Christine Schiefer: Oh! Okay, I thought you were gonna say we caught him being the perpetrator, like he's the entity, like he's writing the things. But you're saying he's egging it on almost.
Em Schulz: I... So obviously, we won't know. I think in a more realistic world, it sounds like maybe grandpa was...
Christine Schiefer: That's what I thought we were going to learn. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: That might be my personal theory, but the... What we're reading here is that it seemed, originally at least, like grandpa was egging it on.
Christine Schiefer: Gotcha.
Em Schulz: Instead of being the one causing all this.
Christine Schiefer: Gotcha. And like was... He wasn't in the picture later, right, when it was happening?
Em Schulz: He was not in the picture later because... Well, I'll just say this. Apparently... Apparently the conversation that grandpa left on the mirror was urging the entity to kill his wife, Grandma Lee, so that he could get her money.
Christine Schiefer: Oh! I thought he was like defending her, like, "Back off," and it was like egging it on. You're saying he was like in cahoots, either with the demon itself, or he's in cahoots with the entity.
Em Schulz: Yup.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: And because uh, Deborah found this out and learned this about him, she kicked him out and he left.
Christine Schiefer: Good.
Em Schulz: So that's why we don't hear about him again.
Christine Schiefer: Because he's asking the devil to kill his wife. Yeah, I guess that's a good enough reason.
Em Schulz: Uhm, but here's... So that's, all of that to say my thought was, okay, maybe he wants her money and he's trying to set this all up to look like it's a paranormal attack, but he really plans on killing her himself for the money?
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: Like it was just like a really creative true crime.
Christine Schiefer: Weird ruse, yeah. Okay.
Em Schulz: But even after he left, this is where my theory is flawed, is after he left, the activity continued.
Christine Schiefer: I see. Okay.
Em Schulz: So eventually, Deborah, uhm Jessica's mom, she, I guess was just like over whatever was going on, and she just straight up told the spirit to leave. Uhm. Which, bold, considering there's been knives at play.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: And uh, I wonder though, Deborah sounds like she's more of like the force to be reckoned with, and the grandma and Deborah's husband... Or Jessica's mom was the force to be reckoned with, while Jessica's dad and grandmother were too afraid of this thing.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Em Schulz: So I think Deborah was like, "I'm just gonna tell it to leave and let's see what happens." And I guess on the mirror later, there... It said that it wanted to stay. And I wonder, are you just standing at the mirror waiting for like a word to fade in?
Christine Schiefer: Right? [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Or do you close the door and come back? Like...
Christine Schiefer: Or do you blink and it's there and you're like, "Dammit."
Em Schulz: Yeah. [chuckle] Well, it said it wanted to stay, and Deborah was like, "Tough shit. GTFO."
Christine Schiefer: It's like, "Please, give me one more chance."
Em Schulz: Yeah, "I'll be good."
[chuckle]
Em Schulz: And at the time, uh... So she said it had to leave, and it just apparently did.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: So the time, a paranormal researcher was staying with them to study activity, 'cause they were bringing in whoever was willing to listen to them.
Em Schulz: And this researcher, I don't know what the situation was here, but he was now attached to this entity and wanted the entity to follow him home so he could keep... So he could keep researching.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: I was like, "Okay, that's odd. But sure, whatever."
Christine Schiefer: That's not a great idea, but you do you.
Em Schulz: It's like, but you want him and I don't, so.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, exactly. Like I'm not gonna trade places with you, let's just say that.
Em Schulz: No questions asked. So when he left the house, uh, after Deborah said leave, and then the researcher left because she was like, "We're not doing this anymore, I told the thing to go away."
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: The researcher left and once the researcher left, and I guess maybe said something like, "Oh, you can come follow me." After that there was never activity in Deborah and Jessica's house again.
Christine Schiefer: Wow.
Em Schulz: The last message written on the mirror was, "Goodbye, my family."
Christine Schiefer: "Goodbye. You kicked me out."
Em Schulz: [singing] "Goodbye my lover, goodbye my friend."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: That's what's her name dancing around the house.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Speaking her mind. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Well, so the entity may have left, but the damage, as we know, had definitely traumatically been done to, especially Jessica's father and grandmother who had PTSD for the rest of time in that house, always afraid that it would come back. But again, when grandma and the dad passed, it was just Deborah left with the kids and Deborah didn't wanna not talk about it anymore.
Em Schulz: Or the two people who were the most scared weren't there, so Deborah's like, "I'll say something." And her kids were very supportive and didn't want to live in secrecy, uhm, so they end up telling all their friends. Their friends were very open about it and encourage them to go public.
Em Schulz: And that is when they remember feeling for the first time that they didn't have to dance around with their words.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: And for the first time, uh, Jessica felt, quote, "The thrill of being free from secrets."
Christine Schiefer: Aw.
Em Schulz: And Deborah and Jessica have now been actively... They talk to the press and they've shared their stories with people in the paranormal world, and they do, they deal with their share of skeptics, but Jessica has said, "I just want others to know what happened."
Christine Schiefer: Wow.
Em Schulz: Now everyone's gonna know because Blumhouse bought their story, so.
Christine Schiefer: Or did Bloomhouse? Nobody knows.
Em Schulz: Who... Someone did.
[chuckle]
Em Schulz: And that is The Moffitt Family Haunting.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Well, this is exciting because it's like, well now you've presented two stories that are gonna have updates, presumably.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: The one in Colombia, we're waiting on more information. And then this movie's gonna come out, which is I'm sure we'll spark a whole new interest in it.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Cool. Em, nailing it.
Em Schulz: Yay. Anyway. I hope you liked it. I enjoyed learning with everybody because that was uhm, a pre...
Christine Schiefer: You did get...
Em Schulz: A pre-Florida-show research. [chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. It did not occur to me that you did not know what was going on, so.
Em Schulz: Good. I tricked you.
Christine Schiefer: You nailed it. [chuckle] Okay. I am to tell you about a cold case. Ish.
Christine Schiefer: Alright, so I have a story for you today, Em. I'm a little nervous now to tell you what it is, because about two minutes ago when I told you for the first time, your computer froze and it looked like you were just staring at me blankly and I was like, "Wow, you hate this already, and we're one line in."
[chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: But you're back and moving again, so I'll try.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, this is the story. It's a cold case. Ish.
Em Schulz: You know I love/hate a cold case.
Christine Schiefer: Exactly, exactly. So I'm hoping the "ish" maybe adds a little bit of comfort? We'll see.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: This is the Lewis-Clark Valley killer.
Em Schulz: I don't know what that is. I thought for a second you were gonna tell like the true crime of like Lewis Clark, and I was like, "Oh, I know that guy." And then...
Christine Schiefer: Well, that's two guys, Lewis and Clark, but yes.
Em Schulz: Lewis and Clark, shit.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, but...
Em Schulz: Okay, well I don't know, apparently.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It makes sense because that's who this area is named after, Lewis and Clark, so you're on to something, and I'm sure that true crime deserves to be covered as well, but for today, we're doing a more modern day story. Not quite modern day, but '70s, '80s.
Christine Schiefer: So uh, the documentary I watched about this, it's a two-parter and it's called Cold Valley on Discovery Plus or Amazon. Uhm. It's very good, I really enjoyed it. So if you're looking for, uh, more of a deep dive on the story, I would watch that.
Em Schulz: Cool.
Christine Schiefer: Uhm. And that's where a lot of this information came from. So the Lewis-Clark Valley killer was active from 1979 to 1982 in the Lewis-Clark Valley. And this valley, as we've kind of already discussed, is named as such because it's where Lewis and Clark once, uh, camped when they were cross-country trekking. And so it's on the border of Washington and Idaho, at the convergence of the Snake River and the Clearwater River.
Christine Schiefer: And there were three towns in this valley where these crimes occurred. There was Asotin, which is A-S-O-T-I-N, Asotin, Clarkston and Lewiston. And this whole area is very rural. At the time of the three towns, Lewiston had the biggest population at just under 30,000, Clarkston had 7000 and Asotin didn't even have 1000 people in its town.
Em Schulz: Oh wow.
Christine Schiefer: On the census in 1980. Yeah, so very, very small. And because it's the '70s, it's just very small town. You know, obviously nobody's locking their doors. Uhm. You know, a lot of these places to this day, you don't really concern yourself with, you know, the big city dangers.
Christine Schiefer: Uhm. And so locals who grew up there said it was a great place to grow up. Kids would bike to each other's houses, to school, unsupervised. Obviously, nobody locked their doors.
Christine Schiefer: So on a pretty average day on April 28th, 1979, uh, 12-year-old Christina, she's also known as Chrissy, set out on her bike alone. Uh, so Chrissy White, she was very excited to go to a like street festival or like a county fair, like a small county fair, and so she had gone to a morning parade with her mom and her 6-year-old sister.
Em Schulz: Oh, okay.
Christine Schiefer: She planned to hang out with her friend, Rose, after the fair, and you know, she was kind of... Her brothers called her a tomboy, she was kind of just an independent little kid. Uh. Her brother explained she wasn't squeamish about putting worms on her hook, like she liked to be outdoors and, you know. In that day, it was a slightly more unusual, I guess, for girls to be that independent and they called it a tomboy.
Christine Schiefer: And so she was just a easy-going fun-loving 12-year-old girl. She's on the walk home from the parade, and she and her mom part ways once she reaches her friend Rose's house. And a few hours later, Chrissy called home and said she was sick from the heat.
Christine Schiefer: So according to Chrissy's brother, she was not great about drinking water or keeping herself hydrated, and so she sometimes in the summer...
Em Schulz: None of us are. By the way.
Christine Schiefer: I know. I was gonna say, relatable, I guess.
Em Schulz: Reminder, everyone. This is your... This is your daily reminder to drink some water.
Christine Schiefer: Sip sip.
Em Schulz: Hmm. Just I couldn't imagine a better segue into that, so.
Christine Schiefer: Right? I know. We needed a little hydration.
Christine Schiefer: So she was the type to get overheated pretty easily, and this was nothing new, so her mom told her, "Okay Honey, drape yourself with cool wet towel and lie down for a while and then come home when you feel better," if that makes sense.
Christine Schiefer: So when Chrissy didn't call back later on, her mom just assumed she and her friend Rose had gone to the fair together. But Chrissy never came home that night. And Chrissy's family reported her missing that evening, but at this point, it's been hours, so the odds are already against them.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: What's more is that the Chief of Police at the time had only been on the job for six months, he'd never even trained as a police officer, he never been to academy, and he basically says in this documentary like, "I was not sure where to start," like he's brand spankin' new, never done any sort of official police training, and now they're like, "There's a missing child." So this is like...
Em Schulz: This poor guy, oh my god.
Christine Schiefer: I know, in this tiny-ass town. So this is like totally out of the ordinary. Uh. So searchers assumed they would find her, you know, just out on her bike, maybe lost or hurt. Uh. And so that is where they started. They started looking.
Christine Schiefer: The last place she had been seen was sometime between 07:00 and 10:00 PM, biking near her house. So they took flashlights and they went out searching everywhere they could, but there was absolutely no trace of Chrissy.
Christine Schiefer: So in the following days, her father used his friend's helicopter service and they were able to do an aerial search of the valley. Again, they found not a single trace of her. It was as if she, poof, ceased to exist. Just vanished in thin air.
Christine Schiefer: So it was three weeks later that they've got their first and pretty much only piece of evidence in this case. Uh, a farmer named Mr. Flynn was out in his pasture when he came across some papers and they had Chrissy White's name on them.
Em Schulz: Oh. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: And they were her... It was her homework. Like her school work.
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: I know.
Em Schulz: Well, that's heartbreaking.
Christine Schiefer: It's heartbreaking, and like when you watch the documentary as well, they do kind of a close-up on it in the evidence bag and it... It has like a "B plus" in red pen. Like you can even see the writing on it. It's just really heartbreaking.
Christine Schiefer: And so here's the weird thing, though. It's been three weeks since she vanished, but these papers are in like great condition, as if they've just been dropped there like that morning.
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: So he immediately obviously calls authorities and he, you know, he's a farmer, this is his land, he knows that if these papers had been out there for more than two days, they would have been, you know, roughed up by the weather...
Em Schulz: Covered in dirt and muck and all that.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah. At least some sign of being outside, but yeah, he said they couldn't have been there for more than two days. And so this was like the first break they had.
Christine Schiefer: So now they're wondering, you know, did the abductor keep Chrissy somewhere nearby for a while? Uh. Or were they just now... Or had they already killed her and were just discarding evidence? Like nobody could really figure out, uh, what was going on.
Christine Schiefer: And unfortunately, those papers were the only physical evidence ever uncovered in Christina White's case. So to this day, no sign of her, no other clues. It's just really shocking. Like she just vanished.
Christine Schiefer: So, after this, of course, a small town like this is rattled. And you know, the way people behave, changes. Parents start driving their kids to school instead of letting them go by themselves. Uhm. People start, you know, being much more careful of where their kids are, who they're with, what house they're at. You know, just keeping track. Uhm. And so it was, people were on alert, if you will.
Christine Schiefer: And one big part of that was, "Is this person somebody we know? You know, is this person somebody in our community? Or could this person have just been passing through and, you know, discard the evidence and moving on?"
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: So things kind of settled and people got back into their normal day-to-day routines. Uhm. Until a few years later in 1981, when another girl vanished.
Em Schulz: Em Schulz: Oy.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, it's almost like the minute things start to just settle uhm, you know, among families...
Em Schulz: It happens again.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Just like, bam, another... Another hand grenade. So 22-year-old Kristin David was a college student at the University of Idaho, and she was another girl who was known to be independent and outdoorsy and did a lot of things on her own. She was very athletic, she enjoyed biking.
Christine Schiefer: And on June 26 of '81, she decided to set out on a three-hour bike ride from Moscow, Idaho, uhm, which is where she was at college, to Lewiston, Idaho, which is uh, where she is, was from.
Em Schulz: Oof.
Christine Schiefer: So 30-mile trek, but...
Em Schulz: Oh my god.
Christine Schiefer: Downhill most of...
Em Schulz: Sorry.
Christine Schiefer: Most of the way. [chuckle] But, you know.
Em Schulz: That means uphill back. That means, later...
Christine Schiefer: This is true, I like to think that her mom was gonna drive her back or something after the downhill part, but I don't know.
Em Schulz: Oh, okay, that makes more sense. I was like, at least you downhill second. Jesus.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, no, downhill... Downhill is the only way I would like to participate in biking.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Me too. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Even at like a spin class, just turn it this way. I don't know how the spin class works, but you know.
Em Schulz: Just let me on a downward incline on a mechanical bike.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Or just put me on a bench and I'll just watch. 'Cause I actually don't wanna be...
Em Schulz: Actually, lie me horizontal on, like on the floor, and then roll me back... Roll me to the car and I'll drive home.
Christine Schiefer: Actually, just leave me alone 'cause I just don't wanna change clothes or get out of bed.
Em Schulz: Actually, cancel my gym membership.
Christine Schiefer: Actually... [chuckle] Oh I never wanna move. Okay, so anyway, this young girl decides she's gonna bike home, see her family. It's a three-hour bike ride, 30 miles, and she told her mom, "Okay, I'm leaving around 10:00 AM," but she never arrived in Lewiston.
Christine Schiefer: So she had work, and so her family was like, you know, "Well, she probably went to work and we just haven't heard." But her work called. Her job called her family and said, "Where is she?" And they said, "Well, she's with you." And they said, "She never showed up for her shift."
Em Schulz: Yeah, "Try again. I'm calling you."
Christine Schiefer: Right, try again, you know? And so this is one of those things where you hear it from a third party perspective and you think, "Well, what's the big deal? She didn't go to work." But her family and her employer said she has never missed a shift, she has never like no-showed or no-called. Like she has never...
Christine Schiefer: And even her sister described like hearing that she wasn't at her job and thinking, "Something's terribly wrong, because in this family, we call each other, we don't leave each other hanging." So they knew pretty much immediately something was wrong.
Christine Schiefer: The problem was she was 22 years old, so police were like, you know, "She's an adult, she's a college student, there's every likelihood that she's just, you know, out and about and is coming back."
Em Schulz: That's... I mean, I get both sides, but like as a mother, I would be freaking the fuck out.
Christine Schiefer: Exactly. I waffle between that too, because it's like, "Well, what the hell. Go... " But then there are probably so many instances where it really is somebody just kind of...
Em Schulz: I mean, we've talked about it before, but like in... When I was in college, like I was up to a lot of no good. And like there were just times where I just didn't answer my mom and she had no idea where I was.
Christine Schiefer: Exactly.
Em Schulz: So it very well could have been shrugged off as, "Well, maybe you just don't know where she is and she's fine."
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. And it's horrible, 'cause it's like of course that's what they wished it were, you know?
Em Schulz: Yeah, yeah.
Christine Schiefer: But unfortunately, it was so much worse. So her family called police and they said, "Sorry, we have to wait 48 hours because she's, you know, probably just running around and she'll show up eventually." But her family was like, "Hell no." So they took it into their own hands and started a search party.
Christine Schiefer: And the way Kristin's mom remembers it... This is also heartbreaking. She said, "I absolutely knew we would not find her. I think it was someone that saw her riding along the highway and grabbed her."
Christine Schiefer: So her mom already is losing hope very quickly.
Em Schulz: Sure.
Christine Schiefer: And after several weeks with no answers, you know, things are looking very grim, and her sister said, "I gave up hope on July 3rd and the next day, that's when they found her."
Christine Schiefer: So at this point, it's been several weeks, it's 4th of July, some fishermen find a garbage bag in the Snake River near Clarkston, which is about 6 and a half miles downstream from the Red Wolf bridge, and inside this trash bag, they find human remains wrapped in newspaper.
Em Schulz: Oh my god. Wow, that... Okay.
Christine Schiefer: It's upsetting and, you know, this is a time before cell phones, and so it takes them a while to get home and call police. And so by the time police get out there, it's dark. Uh. But by the next day, they were able to go out and do more searching and they collected five total bags.
Em Schulz: [gasp] Oh my god.
Christine Schiefer: Yes, and these were the remains of Kristin David, unfortunately.
Em Schulz: Oh my god.
Christine Schiefer: And it's horrible, but it's worth noting that after looking at the body and the way it was dismembered, detectives thought the killer seemed to, "Work with purpose and with knowledge, as if he had prior experience."
Em Schulz: Ugh.
Christine Schiefer: And some of the examples that they gave were a hunter or a butcher, like somebody who knows how to take apart an animal or a person.
Em Schulz: Oh my god.
Christine Schiefer: It's so dark. Uh. It reminds me of actually, the Black Dahlia story, just like that gruesome like precise, you know, precision of this.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: And when they asked about the newspaper in the documentary, they describe it as almost like somebody packing it tightly so that it's not like getting...
Em Schulz: The smell.
Christine Schiefer: Or the evidence like in their car or somewhere. Like they're trying to keep it contained.
Em Schulz: Right, right.
Christine Schiefer: Uhm. It's just really so sick to talk about. Uh, there's no good way around it. So of course, this is devastating, devastating to the family, to the community, and now they're kind of going back and thinking, "Wait, shit. So this is happening again that somebody disappears, a young girl, from our area. And could this be someone in town?"
Christine Schiefer: So now this fear is just sparked all over again.
Em Schulz: I can't imagine, especially in a small town where like you, if you don't know everybody, you at least are always like 2 degrees away from everybody, and like...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: So I can't imagine walking around looking at every person, being like, "Is it you? Is it you?"
Christine Schiefer: Or like your kid says, "I'm going to So and So's house," and you're like, "Shit. Like who's there? Who are their parents?"
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Oof. It's, it's... It's something I can't imagine either, but it sounds like a life of, honestly, constant fear. I feel like I'd just be so anxious all the time.
Christine Schiefer: Uhm. So a man named James Archibald at this point, comes forward and he is perhaps the last person to see Kristin alive. Uhm. I imagine he had some kind of survivors guilt in a way, but we'll get into it.
Christine Schiefer: So basically, he was driving down the highway and he was passing a van, a brown van with Oregon license plates. There was a blonde woman on the ground beside her bicycle next to this man, and he described it as one bicycle wheel was still spinning.
Em Schulz: Ugh. Oh my god.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah.
Em Schulz: That's like right out of a horror movie.
Christine Schiefer: Yes, it is. Ew. It paints a horrible picture. And as he passed, he kind of noticed her and realized she looked to be unconscious, she was not moving at all. The driver was out of the van walking toward the woman, and so this guy, you know, who's driving past thinks, "Oh shit, this man hit this cyclist by mistake."
Christine Schiefer: And uhm, you know, my first thought was, "Well, oh, you should stop," but then there's no cell phones. So he's like, "So I went to the next town to call police."
Em Schulz: Oh, right, right. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Which makes a lot of sense. You know, call paramedics, at least 911, call paramedics. And so he drives past, but what he kind of thinks about later is that as the man turned, he saw that the guy had a huge grin on his face.
Em Schulz: [gasp] Oh my god! Ew.
Christine Schiefer: Isn't that fucking gross?
Em Schulz: Oh my... Oh my god.
Christine Schiefer: And he said it almost like... He's much older now, so they interviewed him and this documentary came out in 2018, and you know, he's kind of remembering and he's like, "He had this... " He actually described it as a "big ass grin." And the police officer who was interviewing him is like, "He had what?" It just seemed almost like an afterthought.
Em Schulz: I can't imagine. Oh my god, there's nothing creepier. It's, it's... It's the... Ugh, I don't even... Terrifying.
Christine Schiefer: It's horrible.
Em Schulz: Terrifying.
Christine Schiefer: And, and they did try to do a sketch... Oh, so anyway, let me just get back to the actual timeline. So he calls 911, and he apparently gets reamed out. He gets in trouble with, over his CB radio. Because they're like, "What the hell? We all came out there with paramedics and there's not a single person, not a bicycle, nobody." And so, you know...
Em Schulz: Why would he get in trouble for that? Like...
Christine Schiefer: Well, I think they were like, "What the hell? Like you either gave us the wrong location... " Like I think it didn't occur to them at first that this was... He just said like, he called police, they all rushed over there and they were like, "What the hell, man? Where is this... "
Em Schulz: I imagine that was so common though, back then, if like... If you're witnessing a crime and then 10 minutes later, cops show up, but it's not there. If feel like it had to be normal for... You know?
Christine Schiefer: That's probably true, I guess maybe in this town, it's not like somebody gets hit by a car and... Yeah, I don't know, I guess, yeah, you could see it both ways. But I mean, you're kind of onto something because pretty immediately they were like, "Oh shit, no, he did see this, it was just a different kind of crime than we thought."
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: And so, ooh, still gives me the creeps. Uhm. James, the man who saw this incident happen, uh, says, quote, "Had I gone back, would that guy have lied to me and just drove off? Or would I be in the brown van with her?" So there's also that fear of, "Well, maybe this guy would have done something to me."
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Uhm. And so he goes...
Em Schulz: Especially with a grin, like that guy was deranged.
Christine Schiefer: Deranged.
Em Schulz: Like there was... Or like what would that guy have said if you pulled over? Like, "No, it's fine."
Christine Schiefer: "She's my child and I'm taking her home."
Em Schulz: Someone's on the ground. Oh god.
Christine Schiefer: It's horrible. Uhm. And so they did a sketch because, you know, he had seen his face, but when they did the sketch, he said, "It was really hard, and the guy tried to keep his face turned away from me as I passed." So he barely caught a glimpse, but he described him as being under 6 feet tall, about 150. Uhm.
Christine Schiefer: And so that was about as good as they could get as far as, you know, identifying this guy. And so this time, you know, this is obviously just horrific, they've now found her body, uhm, in five plastic bags in the river, and so now the FBI and investigators from both Washington and Idaho and three counties get involved. And they do a deep dive on this, find absolutely nothing.
Christine Schiefer: So people are now terrified. You know, kids are growing up with this boogie man in their midst. Like they don't know who's gonna be next, or if they know this guy. Uhm. And investigators are meanwhile like on edge because they know if this guy got away with it twice, he's not gonna stop. You know?
Em Schulz: Yeah, yeah, sure.
Christine Schiefer: So it's almost like a waiting game. And Kristin's sister said, "I felt like the devil had moved into Lewiston and I was scared for every human being in that town."
Em Schulz: Oy. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Gives me the serious creeps. So they were right because it wasn't long. Uh. September 12th, 1982, which was the following year, that three people went missing in one night.
Em Schulz: [gasp] Three? Oh my god.
Christine Schiefer: Three.
Em Schulz: Wow, that makes you really panic. Like, I mean if you live in a town that's like...
Christine Schiefer: Right, strength in numbers, you think?
Em Schulz: Yeah, yeah. And also you would think like, "Oh, it's been pretty quiet." And now of a sudden, it's worse than we ever thought.
Christine Schiefer: It's tripled. Yeah, yeah.
Em Schulz: And it's like, so is he now working with other people? Are there multiple people we should be scared of? Or did he have it in him all along? Or if I was only scared of one of us being come after, now it's three, what if I'm only worried about it being three, but next time it's 10? You know? Like...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Oh my god. Like you don't even know what to be scared of.
Christine Schiefer: No, and you don't. And it's almost like this feeling too of like, well, you feel this comfort, this like false sense of security if you're with a group or you're with friends and...
Em Schulz: Yeah. Fuck that. That's out the window.
Christine Schiefer: Apparently, so. And another part that I'm just gonna skip ahead to real quick is that one of these three was a man and he was over 6 feet tall, and so...
Em Schulz: Oh yeah, that I will do it.
Christine Schiefer: So now there's that fear of like, "Well shit, we're not even safe with a physically really capable young person to defend us." It's... Yeah, it was just absolutely terrifying for everybody involved. Uhm.
Christine Schiefer: Three people in one night. So they were from Lewiston. It was 21-year-old Kristina Nelson. Uh, and the first, uh, the first girl who went missing, I'm gonna call Chrissy just 'cause it's... It's like a lot of Chrissy, Kristin, Kristina.
Em Schulz: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Christine Schiefer: So we got a, Chrissy was the 12-year-old girl, then Kristin, uh, on the bicycle, and now we have Kristina Nelson, who's 21, and her 18-year-old step-sister, uh, Jaclyn Brandy, who went by Brandy Miller.
Christine Schiefer: And they had set out that evening from home to do laundry and go get groceries at the local Safeway, which was only a few blocks away. Kristina left a note at home to tell her boyfriend where they were going, but nobody really knows whether or not they ever made it to their stop. Uhm, to either stop. Because they never came home.
Christine Schiefer: And so when Kristina didn't show up, Kristina's boyfriend called the police to report both of them missing. And it was that same night that 35-year-old Steven R. Pearsall also vanished.
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: So after a party, Steven's girlfriend dropped him off at the community theater, it was called the Civic Theater, uh, which by the way, has since been condemned and looks absolutely terrifying and...
Em Schulz: Oh geez.
Christine Schiefer: Utterly creepy and probably very haunted. Uh, so dropped him off, his girlfriend dropped him off of the Civic Theater where he worked as a janitor, and Steven told her, "I'm gonna do my laundry and I'm gonna practice my clarinet at the theater," 'cause it had a nice space for him to practice. Uhm. And his girlfriend said he was in his usual good mood when she left him and nothing seemed out of place.
Christine Schiefer: And this is when people started to realize this theater was almost like its own character in the story. It was the focal point all of a sudden. Because, uh, first of all, these three are linked in a way that they didn't realize at first.
Christine Schiefer: So Steven is actually Kristina's neighbor.
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: And they had the kind of friendship where it's like a big brother, little sister friendship. And what's more is Kristina also worked at the same theater as Steven. And this theater just happened to be on the way to the grocery store.
Em Schulz: Okay, good to know.
Christine Schiefer: So it could be that Kristina and Brandy were like, "Oh, let's pop in and say hi to Steven on our way to the grocery store, or let's, you know, stop in and see who's around."
Em Schulz: Yeah, yeah.
Christine Schiefer: And so this is kind of the going theory. So months go by without any clue whatsoever. Uh, no sign of Steven, Brandy or Kristina. And uh, you know, there was a possibility at first, maybe they ran away, but pretty quickly that was like obviously not what happened.
Christine Schiefer: Steven had left his wallet, uh, some un-cashed paychecks in his car at the apartment, and both women had left their purses and wallets. So it just didn't seem likely that they did this willingly. And investigators said, "All we had at that time were just three missing people." So they were like totally confounded.
Christine Schiefer: And uh, as you said, people were more scared than ever, especially because one of these people was a, you know, 6-foot strong, physically capable man, and if he wasn't safe, then like who is? You know?
Em Schulz: Yeah, even like fathers who are like, "Oh, I have to protect my young children," even though, for all you know, you are both in danger, yeah.
Christine Schiefer: It's like, you're also a victim. Right. So it was very suddenly like that any false sense of security was shattered. So during the search, Kristina's brother remembers the feeling sinking in that things, "Probably wouldn't end well."
Christine Schiefer: And you know, he's interviewed throughout this documentary, he cries. It's like the most heart-wrenching thing, uhm, to watch all these family members talk about this.
Christine Schiefer: So March 19th, 1984, the family gets the news they were dreading, which is that they found Kristina's and Brandy's bodies. And their bodies had been found, uh, in a rural area outside of Kendrick, Idaho, which was about 40 miles northeast of Lewiston, where they were last seen.
Christine Schiefer: Uh, both were largely skeletonized.
Em Schulz: [gasp]
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, it's a horrible word to say. But they uh, still had clothes and personal items like jewelry on them, but there was no sign of Steven. Intriguing.
Em Schulz: Oh, okay. Yeah, that immediately throws up some interesting flags.
Christine Schiefer: Right? Okay, so that is exactly where their heads went immediately, 'cause they're like, "Wait a second. These two go missing, we don't know where... We find them dead. We don't know where Steven is." He's suddenly a suspect in their disappearance or in their murder.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Or he's at least treating his body differently than the women and the girls, and that, that also freaks me out too.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, that's no good either, uhm, obviously. But now they're thinking, "Well, maybe Steven's the one who abducted them and is on the run." You know? And so Steven's cousin was interviewed and he describes... [chuckle] It's like not funny, it's just so bananas, but describes hearing over the radio while driving that his cousin was a suspect in this like double homicide.
Christine Schiefer: And he's like, "What the hell?" And he cannot even imagine that this guy is capable of this. His sister thought it was like some sort of sick practical joke when she heard the news. Uhm. Basically, you know, this is kind of cliche, but everyone who knew him was like, "Uhm no, like this guy?"
Christine Schiefer: Like his mom even said, "Once we sent him to the vet because the dog had to be euthanized and he like could barely hold it together, like he could barely function, you know, letting this dog die, let alone like hurting another person." Which doesn't necessarily prove anything but, you know, gives a little character statement.
Em Schulz: Well that's what we all hope, right, that we're at least a person that if we were suspected of murder, the people who would be interviewed about us would very confident, confidently be like, "No, no fucking way."
Christine Schiefer: That's exactly it. Yeah, because...
Em Schulz: That's my goal, that's my dream.
Christine Schiefer: A hundred percent, that is the dream. Because I feel like the alternative is like, "Well, he did, he was always a little shady or iffy." Or you know, there's uh, definitely red flags, uh, to be had if your mom is saying that about you.
Em Schulz: Yeah. [chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: So everyone who knew him thought of him as very soft-hearted, very kind. His best friend said, "I could never see him getting violent, I never saw it in his personality, I never saw it in his eyes." Which again, you know, these are... That's a white man. Maybe, maybe somebody doesn't react to you the way that...
Em Schulz: Someone's not looking at you that way.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, maybe you just would never have been in that sight, in that anger. So, I don't know, I'm kinda iffy on that. But here's the thing, there was one more person in the theater the night Steven, Kristina and Brandy vanished.
Em Schulz: Oh shit.
Christine Schiefer: Who didn't vanish. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: And he admitted to police he was in the theater and he told police he didn't see or hear anything out of the ordinary. Now, in the documentary, this is where it's like kind of... I had to do a little bit of decision-making because I wasn't sure how to approach this. But in the documentary, he is not mentioned because police hadn't released his name publicly.
Em Schulz: Oh, okay.
Christine Schiefer: But in a 2011 documentary, his name was revealed, it's on Wikipedia, it's on basically any forum about this. So I'm gonna say his name because I feel like it's quite relevant and it makes the story easier to tell. I will also give the caveat that this is fully alleged, he has not been charged with anything, he is just a person of interest. Which just means somebody related to this case that police think might have information.
Christine Schiefer: So that being said, this man who happened to be in the theater that same night, his name is Lance Jeffrey Voss.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Now, Voss says in an interview with police that he was in the attic of the theater working on the light rigging when he fell through the plaster floor.
Em Schulz: Holy shit.
Christine Schiefer: Yes.
Em Schulz: Wow, okay.
Christine Schiefer: And he says the adrenaline rush gave him the shakes, so he went to the green room to lie down on the couch, and that's where he dozed off. So this was his kind of backstory for a while.
Em Schulz: So he got out of... He got away before...
Christine Schiefer: So he said he was sleeping in the green room of the theater, uh, and he saw or heard nothing.
Em Schulz: Right, okay.
Christine Schiefer: Now, this is a little shady because Voss said, "Oh, I don't even hear Steven come in, I didn't know if he came in," but police thought that was odd because multiple people saw him enter the theater, and his girlfriend who had driven him there saw him enter through the door to the green room, like enter into the theater...
Em Schulz: Oh wow.
Christine Schiefer: Through the door of the green room. And from her car, saw him turn the lights on. And then she's like, "Okay, he made it in, "and she left. And it would be hard to sleep through that, but not only that... Uhm. Oh, by the way, a police officer also saw him entering the theater at the same time, so there are multiple witnesses saw him go in.
Christine Schiefer: But also he was there to do laundry and play his clarinet. Like I imagine this guy would have woken up if, if Steven had gone about his business as planned.
Em Schulz: Sure.
Christine Schiefer: So it's just a little odd. It was like they weren't really buying it. They were like, "Wait a second, this guy is going to play his clarinet and you're saying you slept through him bursting in, turning the lights on, all this?"
Em Schulz: I will say, I can sleep through just about anything.
Christine Schiefer: That's true. Okay, you know what? That's a great point.
Em Schulz: I... To date, I have slept through four fire alarms. Uhm, so...
Christine Schiefer: Oh god. You need to get...
Em Schulz: It's not a brag, I'm just saying it's... 'Cause there's nothing to be bragging about there, but I'm just saying anything is possible when it comes to...
Christine Schiefer: I also... I also imagine if you fell through a plaster ceiling, you would...
Em Schulz: You deserve a deep nap.
Christine Schiefer: You would probably not wake up for a while 'cause you'd be like, "I need to recover in my REM cycle."
Em Schulz: Or like if I... If something like that happened, I just wouldn't wanna be bothered, so even if someone came in and turned the light on, I would just...
Christine Schiefer: That's true.
Em Schulz: At least keep pretend sleeping so I didn't have to interact with them.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, but then when you were at the police station, wouldn't you be like, "Oh yeah, I saw him come in and I was just ignoring him."?
Em Schulz: Oh yeah. I see your point.
Christine Schiefer: I do see what you're saying, and I do think that's a fair argument. You know, maybe he's a really deep sleeper?
Em Schulz: I'm just saying, a good nap can do incredible things, so.
Christine Schiefer: You know what, you are making a good point and I concede that to you. Here's the other thing that I think you might have a tougher time explaining. But maybe. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: So it's just a weird coincidence, but Voss, this person of interest just so happened to be the last person to see 12-year-old Kristina Chrissy White alive two years earlier in 1979.
Em Schulz: Oh shut the fuck... Okay, yeah, that's a little wild.
Christine Schiefer: That's weird, right? Uh, hmm.
Em Schulz: A little wild.
Christine Schiefer: And I have even more details, because he had actually been dating Chrissy's friend, Rose's mom, so he was basically like Rose's pseudo stepdad at the time. So when she went to Rose's house, he was there.
Christine Schiefer: He told detectives that he was the one to give Chrissy a wet towel to cool off before she biked home. So he has already admitted that he was there, he interacted with her, he was the last person to see her alive. And now he's claiming this is all just a big coincidence that he just happens to be, you know, in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: It's a little shady. Uh, apparently his behavior was also a little shady because after Chrissy went missing, he got like really involved.
Em Schulz: Aha, interesting.
Christine Schiefer: Which is just, at first I thought, "Well, what's the big deal about that?" But I guess after hearing officers describe it as like, This is not how a person usually responds, you know, they don't try to insert themselves necessarily, unless there's some other motive, I thought it was interesting.
Christine Schiefer: He was apparently very insistent about helping the search party, but he also kept trying to lead the search parties to specific parts of town, uhm, which almost gave off the vibe of like, he's just trying to misdirect where the search party is going.
Christine Schiefer: So investigators asked Voss to take a polygraph, but he hired an attorney and the attorney told him to cease all contact with authorities.
Em Schulz: Oh, okay.
Christine Schiefer: So he never did a polygraph. In 1990, uh, Chrissy White's case was cold, filed away in storage, when a new investigator kind of made that link between Lance Voss and Chrissy's case and then Lance Voss working at the same theater where three people disappeared on one night.
Em Schulz: Right, yeah. All of a sudden he's involved in like four of the five.
Christine Schiefer: Four, yeah. It's crazy, it's crazy. So in 1995, investigators announced that Steven Pearsall, the third... The man who disappeared, was no longer a suspect in the deaths of Brandy and Kristina.
Em Schulz: Oh, wow. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: So they started with a whole new theory, and this theory is that Brandy and Kristina stopped by the theater on their way to the grocery store. Voss, who also worked there, was there. Attacked them, because he has these predilection or whatever. And then Steven just happened to walk in to do his laundry and witnessed the crime or the aftermath of the crime.
Em Schulz: Interesting.
Christine Schiefer: And was then killed as a witness. Because obviously this guy wouldn't want him running his mouth.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: So that is their new theory. Uhm, at the time...
Em Schulz: And then where... It's weird that they still wouldn't... He wouldn't last bring Steven wherever he brought the other women though. Like if he killed all of them, wouldn't he just bury all of them next to each other, or?
Christine Schiefer: You know, you'd think. But also, you know, there could be an element, and this is not confirmed, but if there's an element of, you know, sexual assault and it's sort of like, you know, he has these targets in mind. This guy was just like a... What do you call it? Collateral damage. Like he wasn't the intended target.
Christine Schiefer: You know, he could have treated them differently, so to speak, than the guy. Like he could have just been disposed, and he wanted to like either spend time with the girls. Or maybe he kept them alive, like who knows?
Em Schulz: I wonder if there was a way to send a, like a picture of, of younger... Not Steven, the guy, the theater guy?
Christine Schiefer: Voss, yeah.
Em Schulz: Voss. I wonder if there was a way to show a younger picture of him to the guy who saw a guy grinning running towards the girl?
Christine Schiefer: I mean, there are pictures. Quite a lot. Uhm. So yeah, I mean it's probably possible.
Em Schulz: I wonder where that guy went.
Christine Schiefer: Somebody should get on that. But again, like, I mean it won't get to this, but there's so much circumstantial stuff, but nothing hard, no like real hard-hitting evidence.
Christine Schiefer: So even if that guy was like, "Yeah, that does look like him," like it probably wouldn't confirm anything.
Em Schulz: Yeah, it would still be hearsay.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. So this is our theory now, that he's... That Steven was, stumbled into like either a crime scene, the aftermath of a crime, and then was murdered as a witness and disposed of. Uhm.
Christine Schiefer: And so at the time of the crimes, Voss actually owned several properties, including a vacant house near Chrissy White's home. He also owned other more rural properties where neighbors had complained in the past of his incessant digging at night.
Em Schulz: [gasp] Bye.
Christine Schiefer: Bye.
Em Schulz: That'll do it.
Christine Schiefer: Are you kidding? I mean, come on.
Em Schulz: I'd be like, "Can you please point out the spots where you saw him digging?"
Christine Schiefer: Seriously.
Em Schulz: So we can go look.
Christine Schiefer: I mean, it really is. Like, so at this point, they're kind of honing in on him, and they realize he has recently had concrete flooring poured in the basement.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Wow, that's very convenient.
Christine Schiefer: I know. But they dug up some of the concrete flooring and found nothing. So it's like they felt like this is it, and then they didn't find anything. But they are still, for obvious reasons, convinced, this is the police talking, uh, convinced that he's the culprit.
Christine Schiefer: So I actually have some other like little anecdotes about this guy, just to give more of like a, I don't know, a well-rounded understanding of how creepy he is.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Uhm. So there was this realtor who apparently was taking a look at one of his properties that he wanted to sell, and this is the one with the special basement he had poured a concrete floor in.
Em Schulz: Oh, that one. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: You've heard of it? [chuckle] So apparently he was telling this realtor like on and on how great the basement was, how much work he had put into it, and he's like, "Right this way, let me show you."
Christine Schiefer: Okay, this creeps me out so bad. He's walking her to the basement, he's like, "After you." She turns around to like say something to him and realizes he has his hand raised, and he whips his hand back behind his back.
Em Schulz: Truly. Fuck no. Absolutely not.
Christine Schiefer: Talk about a fucking nightmare.
Em Schulz: Oh my god, yeah. How quick... But also at that point, like how do you even get out...
Christine Schiefer: I don't know. I would be... I don't know.
Em Schulz: I think I'd accept defeat. I think I'd be like, "Well, I think I just witnessed what's about to come."
Christine Schiefer: And it's awkward 'cause it's not like you can be like, "Anyway, I didn't see anything." Like you... You know what I mean? Like now you both know that you know, that they know. It's, ugh, it's...
Em Schulz: It's almost like you're more likely to be hurt now. You don't know how...
Christine Schiefer: That's right. Like you're a... It's almost like a witness thing again. I don't know. Maybe he thought she just really didn't see what he was holding. Uhm. But apparently...
Em Schulz: Yeah, maybe she got out of it with like, "Oh, are you stretching? I'd like to stretch too."
Christine Schiefer: "Isn't stretching the best? I'm gonna stretch all the way to my Honda outside and leave." Uhm.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: "See you later. Never."
Em Schulz: I'm gonna go ride downhill all the way home on my mechanical bike.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: But downhill only for the rest of my life, 'cause I'm incredibly traumatized.
Christine Schiefer: And so she turns around just to say like, "Oh, so what... " And he's fucking ready to bash her brains in presumably. This is all alleged. To be clear, we don't know what he was planning to do. But so she's like, "What are you holding?" And apparently, he holds up, he shows her what he's holding, and it's a blunt object that looks like it came from like a bed post or is like part of a bed post, like a big blunt object.
Em Schulz: Oh my god.
Christine Schiefer: Which, she's like, "Cool. Why are you holding that?" Uhm, you know?
Em Schulz: What did he say?
Christine Schiefer: He just was like, "Oh, I was just putting this away," he explained it and she got the fuck out of there.
Em Schulz: How do... I don't even know how you gracefully...
Christine Schiefer: I don't either.
Em Schulz: Disengage. Because if...
Christine Schiefer: I wish she would explain that to me 'cause I'm like, we could all use that lesson of how you got out of there.
Em Schulz: 'Cause I would think, "Oh, I'm gonna sprint out of here," but then obviously you're onto something and then you're in trouble.
Christine Schiefer: Obviously your foot is blistered, so you're screwed.
Em Schulz: I couldn't even if I wanted to. I would have to throw part of my foot skin at him and hope that...
Christine Schiefer: Ew. [chuckle] Wait, that would just probably do the trick. Nobody would...
Em Schulz: That would make him wanna kill me faster.
Christine Schiefer: He'd look at your foot and be like, "Get away from me. Uhm, is it contagious?" "I don't know." Uh, you could just tell him you have my herpes and maybe he'll leave you alone, but.
[chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: But sounds like he, he somehow got spooked. Like she... You know what I mean?
Em Schulz: She's so lucky. She's so lucky.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah I feel like there's either luck or she did something right. Or not right, I shouldn't say, but you know what I mean? Like something that disarmed him almost.
Christine Schiefer: Because like the other guy walked in and he was killed. So it's like she... He probably could have physically overpowered her. Very, very scary. But again, this is all circumstantial, it's just an anecdote. Like it's not gonna prove anything. Uhm.
Christine Schiefer: So here's another. This... This guy, listen whether or not he did these specific crimes, he's a creep. So I think I can confidently say that without getting sued, uhm, I'm not positive. But I consider him to be a creep.
Em Schulz: "Creep" is a vague enough word. I think we're okay.
Christine Schiefer: I feel like, you know? Uhm.
Christine Schiefer: Anyway, in June 1972, this is... [chuckle] Okay, let me see you how to broach this story 'cause it's so bat shit crazy. Okay. So let's say he's in an interview with police, like I think it's his second interview, and they're like, "Hey, we're talking to you about these crimes and you're, you know, on the list of suspects. Or at least not suspects necessarily, but people of interest. You might have some information."
Christine Schiefer: And they're like, "Have you ever been in trouble with the law?" And he's like, "Well, yeah, but I was in the wrong place at the wrong time."
Em Schulz: Ugh. Wow, heard that one before.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, right? It sounds familiar. And so they're like, "Hmm. What do you mean by that?" And this is where he tells them of an incident in June of 1972 in San Jose, California at the Willow Glen Mortuary. And this was a funeral home that, uh, Voss was caught breaking into.
Em Schulz: Aha.
Christine Schiefer: Aha. And so inside...
Em Schulz: Interesting.
Christine Schiefer: Inside this funeral home was the body of 17-year-old Antoinette Anino. And this young girl had gotten into an argument with her boyfriend uh, at a beach outing, and they were sitting on the beach talking, and after 10 or 15 minutes he told her, you know, "Once you feel better, once you've calmed down, like come find us." It was him and her brother and her brother's girlfriend.
Christine Schiefer: And he's like, "I'm gonna go join them. Whenever you're feeling up for it, come back and join us. You know, we'll be up there," wherever they were hanging out.
Christine Schiefer: So a little while later, security comes up to the group and says, "Oh, we're closing the boardwalk. You know, you guys have to head home." And they're like, "Okay, let's go find Antoinette, we don't know where she is."
Christine Schiefer: They go back down to the beach. They cannot find her. So they head home, and it wasn't until 02:30 or 03:00 AM that night that a couple walking the beach saw a body in the water.
Em Schulz: Ugh.
Christine Schiefer: And she was wearing a gold watch and a necklace with a cross, she was otherwise totally nude. There were no signs of her clothing anywhere. Uh, and yet her death was ruled a suicide by drowning. Uhm. Presumably because of this argument with the boyfriend.
Christine Schiefer: Although, you know, the details still didn't add up. People still wonder like where did the clothes go? They don't just vanish. It's just so... It's just an odd story.
Christine Schiefer: But so keep that in mind, uh, her body was in the funeral home, and there is an attempted break in.
Em Schulz: Right, right.
Christine Schiefer: And who could it be, but this Lance Voss. And so the people who live above the funeral home catch him trying to slash through a screen window and break in, and he's carrying a flashlight, a camera and a knife.
Em Schulz: [gasp] Okay. Wow. Wow.
Christine Schiefer: It gets worse. They asked him, "What are you doing?" And he says, "I'm trying to get in to see my girlfriend one last time."
Em Schulz: With a knife? Girl, what are you doing? That's no, no, no. That's wild.
Christine Schiefer: And the other part of it is, Antoinette was the only body, only deceased person in the building. So it wasn't like, "Oh, he was referencing someone else."
Em Schulz: He could have like maybe gone in to try to like... 'Cause you said he... Somehow it seemed that these bodies were professionally or expertly butchered. Like maybe he was going in like thinking he could like practice or something? On a dead body.
Christine Schiefer: So here's the theories.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: The two main theories that I thought were interesting are, one, he killed her at the beach and wanted to... And, you know, it was ruled a suicide, but he took her clothes or what have you. And he wanted to go in, I mean, he has a camera with him, and it's like pre-cellphone days, so presumably take photos?
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Uhm. Perhaps do more horrible things to her body. And then the other theory is that he didn't have anything to do with her death, but he heard that... He knew there was a young woman's body in the funeral home and wanted to, you know?
Em Schulz: Do something to her.
Christine Schiefer: Assault it. Yeah.
Em Schulz: And the knife was like a precaution in case somebody caught him or something?
Christine Schiefer: Well, I think the knife was just to get through the screens.
Em Schulz: Oh, okay.
Christine Schiefer: But he... He had a camera, which is like very unsettling to me.
Em Schulz: Oh yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Like why are you going to see your "girlfriend" one last time. And to be clear, it was not his girlfriend, the boyfriend was someone else. But uhm, he just kinda said that as an excuse, and he was like, "What do you mean by that? And why do you have a camera?" Uhm.
Christine Schiefer: There's no other reason that in the middle of the night, you're breaking into a funeral home. Like there's nothing good coming of that.
Em Schulz: Yeah, something bad is happening.
Christine Schiefer: So he told police, "Well, I was just in the wrong place at the wrong time." And...
Em Schulz: That's fucking something I've never heard come out of his mouth before.
Christine Schiefer: Talk about a stretch. Like, come on. Uhm.
Em Schulz: Stretch.
Christine Schiefer: A big stretch. Uh. So just really fucking shady. And so now we fast forward to 1996, uhm, and there is another weird anecdote that doesn't turn into any physical evidence, but also just gives an idea of how creepy this dude is.
Christine Schiefer: So it's 1996. Uhm. A local girl named Crystal, she's a teenager, and she's interviewed, she gives her, uh, account of the story, she had a very weird experience with this person of interest, Lance Voss.
Em Schulz: Mmm. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: She's out camping with her family in the middle of nowhere, uh, and it wasn't like a regular camp site that people went to, it's just way out in the middle of nowhere, just her family, you know, were going there. Just a random spot in the woods by the river.
Christine Schiefer: And Crystal's family is fishing near a bridge, but she was kind of standing alone about 50 yards away, when a man pulls up in a truck and asks her for directions. And she says, "You know, I don't really know the place you're trying to get to or where it is. But, you know, my family is down under the bridge, if you wanna drive over and ask them, they might know."
Christine Schiefer: And so he says, "Hey, why don't you hop in and I'll give you a ride back to your family?"
Em Schulz: Hey. Uh, no.
Christine Schiefer: Hey. Uh, no. Right. And she's like, That's when I started to get creeped out, because it didn't make any sense, like they're 50 yards away, it's not like you need a ride to get, you know, that far. Uhm. And so she says immediately she was like, "This is nothing good." Uhm. And so she says, "Nope." And uh, he kind of peaces out.
Christine Schiefer: So he leaves and uh, she said she thinks he saw her dad and maybe uncle and was like, "Never mind. This isn't worth it." You know?
Em Schulz: Yeah. Got creeped out. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: And so he never got his directions, he never even asked the family, so clearly that was not the real intention. Uhm. And she left with her parents, but apparently two of her family members, I think it was like an uncle and his wife stayed to camp the night, and apparently, the man came back.
Christine Schiefer: So they're at their campsite and the woman goes, "Hey, there's that creepy man from earlier today." And he just kind of pops his head out.
Em Schulz: This is worse than what I thought was gonna happen.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, this is not like a public campsite, this is just like...
Em Schulz: So he's been like ogling them this whole time.
Christine Schiefer: Lurking, yeah. And so at first, the, the guy, I think his name was Daryl, did not see anything, and then the guy like popped up again, and this time Daryl was like getting really freaked out.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: He's like, "This guy is lurking around our campsite. You know, nothing good can come of this." So they got so freaked out that the gun they kept on hand, uhm, they grabbed it and held it while they packed up and they left in the middle of the night. They were like, "We're not sleeping here."
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: So some time later, I don't know if it was weeks or maybe months later, uh, Daryl and his wife are at a street fair and there's a band performing, and they look at the stage and they go, "Oh my god, that guy was the one lurking at our campsite."
Em Schulz: Ew, he's... Oh god.
Christine Schiefer: He's in a band and he's performing, and apparently the person next to them at the fucking street fair says, "Do you know who that is? That's Lance Voss, the guy who's like a person of interest in all of these crimes."
Em Schulz: [gasp]
Christine Schiefer: And they're like, "Oh my god." 'Cause they had no idea that it was the same person.
Christine Schiefer: So just like really weird dude, whether or not he's a murderer, which is unclear so far.
Em Schulz: And it seems like there's a lot of times he said, "Oh, uhm, I was just in the wrong place at wrong time." And that seems to follow him through multiple times in even a short span of time.
Christine Schiefer: He's either like unluckiest like standby to a serial murderer, or he is the luckiest serial murderer, because he's getting away with it.
Em Schulz: It's, it's one of the two. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, it's bizarre. And like I think that's the kind of pattern they kept mentioning in the docu series as well, is like there are too many coincidences. Like it doesn't... It's just too much to write off, you know?
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: It's a little too weird that he is so connected to everybody.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Uhm. So as of the documentary, uh, which like I said, came out in 2018, detectives are still convinced that Lance Voss is responsible for these five abductions and murders, but there is just an absolute lack of physical evidence. And like, you know, now they're trying to get any DNA they can. Uhm.
Christine Schiefer: They even found his old car that he had driven at the time and tried to find DNA evidence, but uh, all of this is currently with the FBI, so we don't know if any of these have panned out. Uhm. But they are still looking and they are still trying to gather DNA evidence since they didn't have that 30 years ago.
Christine Schiefer: And disturbingly enough, several men have tried to confess to Kristin David's murder, the one who was dismembered. Uh. And all of them have been ruled out. And it's just that same gross thing of like people confessing to crimes they didn't commit.
Em Schulz: [sighs]
Christine Schiefer: Uhm. It's gross.
Christine Schiefer: So in 2017, a cold case unit launched a new effort to solve uh, the... The, what do you call it? Civic Theater Three, I think they called it, which is Brandy, Kristina and Steven.
Christine Schiefer: And although they acknowledge a strong link between these cases, the FBI is actually investigating Kristin David's murder separately, because they think it might be a different person just based on the way she was dismembered and it just seemed like a different MO.
Em Schulz: That'd be crazy, if there were two...
Christine Schiefer: I know.
Em Schulz: Murderers in the same small town that both got away with it.
Christine Schiefer: It's wild 'cause like the profiler they interviewed from the FBI was like, you know, "This is a very specific type of person who dismembers someone like this, and that's part of their whole thing, but the other ones weren't." So his theory is that it's two different people.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: But then also like that's wild too. Like you said, what, there's two of them running around? So who knows. But the FBI is treating it separately, uhm, but they do acknowledge there are links.
Christine Schiefer: And then finally, Detective Jackie Nichols, who's kind of like the main character of the show, uh, she is the, uh... She is a detective with the Asotin County Sheriff's office, and she says to this day that she has not given up on Chrissy White. Uhm. She actually works the case off the clock quite a bit.
Em Schulz: Oh wow.
Christine Schiefer: I know. And keeps a photo of Chrissy on the bulletin board in her office because she doesn't ever wanna forget who she's fighting for. And the families and friends of all five victims, you know, a lot of them have passed, especially the parents, which is heartbreaking, but they all hope that, you know, some piece of evidence will come through and crack the case open, and they'll finally be able to bring this to trial. Uhm.
Christine Schiefer: Pretty much everyone interviewed, and this might just be a bias of the show, but pretty much everyone who's interviewed was like, "I'm confident that that is who did it."
Christine Schiefer: And throughout the whole show, they say like, they like either bleep out the person's name or they say like "the person of interest". Uhm. But since it's so, you know, widely google-able, I figured it's okay to mention uh, who is the... He's not a suspect. Who is this person of interest that uhm, people are looking at. So it's...
Em Schulz: Yeah. Wow.
Christine Schiefer: It's something. You know?
Em Schulz: It's wild that there's also no physical evidence, it's like how lucky and unlucky can you get all the same time if you're getting away with multiple murders and there's no... Especially, let's say that stretch thing where he was going to like hit that one woman over the head.
Em Schulz: It's like he clearly is... If he... If that was really what his plan was, was to hurt this person, he's fine with a little blood splat... Splatter.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, true.
Em Schulz: So like... So like how are you cleaning it up so well? Like what's happening, you know?
Christine Schiefer: It's really true. That's one of the things they said too. Like it would have to... He would have a space to feel comfortable doing these things where people aren't gonna see it or catch him. Uhm.
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: And you know, they interview him on, they play the old interviews and it's extra creepy because they put the voice modulator on because it's like they don't wanna reveal this person's identity. Uhm. But he says all these weird details when they're discussing like, "Okay, so you fell sleep on the couch in the green room," and they're asking these questions and he's responding and he has all these weird details that are like a little strange like why would you say that.
Christine Schiefer: For example, he said, "Oh, I heard the phone ring, but I didn't answer," and the Detective Nichols, she's convinced that it's because either his wife... 'Cause he was married. Either his wife said to him like, "Oh, I called and you didn't pick up."
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: And so could say, "Oh yeah, I heard it, but I was napping." Or there's some... You know, he's trying to fill in the gaps before people, you know, ask more questions. Uhm. But it's just a very strange story, and you know, again, as of now, he's innocent until proven guilty, but we'll see.
Em Schulz: I also wonder like if it was him, how... Why would he go... Why would he have a moment with uh, the first, the very first victim, why would he have done that? And then it was so apparently expertly, you know, handled by him at the end, that it implies there's more that we never saw.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: And then why would there be this massive gap where he didn't do anything, at least that we know of, and then he goes into three people. It's all the behavior is just all over the place.
Christine Schiefer: It's all over the place, and that is also another pattern throughout the whole show, that pretty much everyone agrees there's no way that this is his only... These are his only crimes.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: There's no way it's only isolated to this area, because he moved from Chicago.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: There's no way that it's... That he stopped and hasn't done anything. Unless he's like physically incapable or there's some other reason. Uhm.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: But like the profile said like his compulsions would not be kept in check. If... You know?
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: So I don't know, it's very disturbing to think about this person still out there, and again, we don't know that it was this guy, he's just somebody that the victim's families are eyeing and the police are eyeing. But we don't have any hard evidence. Uh, so, you know, until we find that... Or not we, but somebody smarter than me. Uhm. We don't know.
Em Schulz: Wow. Great story.
Christine Schiefer: So that's why it's cold case-ish, 'cause I was like a lot of people are like, "We know who did it," but obviously we don't really, uhm, for legal reasons and otherwise.
Em Schulz: It's a good story, but horrible that it's a real story. Uhm.
Christine Schiefer: I know. I know. I wish it were fictional, I wish I could say, "Just kidding."
Em Schulz: Yeah. Well, anyway, thank you for the bum out I was hoping for.
Christine Schiefer: You're so welcome. I hope you feel great.
Em Schulz: I was a little too happy today, so.
Christine Schiefer: That's right, I saw it in your eyes.
Em Schulz: The glint, the glint of joy and you were like, "Let's bring you back down to Earth." Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: "Let's extinguish it."
Em Schulz: Well, uh, to end on a happy note, I found one of my old uh. Magic tricks. Whoa. And it changes colors. I bring it with me on planes and stuff to like entertain babies 'cause then I hope they won't cry, you know?
Christine Schiefer: Aw.
Em Schulz: But I don't think babies understand the concept, so.
Christine Schiefer: I don't think you're supposed to understand the concept, I think that's the fun of a rainbow scarf. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: I guess so, but I like to think like, Oh, if I had... If I were sad and someone had this on a plane, I'd watch them for like an hour.
Christine Schiefer: Maybe this is our new ending, you just do a little magic trick?
[chuckle]
Em Schulz: Well, maybe. Sure.
Christine Schiefer: I guess audio-wise, it doesn't do much for people, but... [chuckle]
Em Schulz: It's me... It's me tugging on a scaring, and it's not so magically changing colors before everyone's eyes.
Christine Schiefer: It's pretty magical to me.
Em Schulz: But anyway, I... I found this, I've been digging through my closets and organizing my cabinet, so I'm, I'm finding a lot of good little trinkets, so hopefully I find something... Actually, I found one already that's supposed to be a gift for you and I forgot to give it to you for Christmas.
Christine Schiefer: Ooh.
Em Schulz: You've got... You've got things coming for that birthday of yours in less then a month.
Christine Schiefer: Less than a month 'til both our birthdays.
Em Schulz: When does this come out? When is our birthday episode?
Christine Schiefer: Oh shit. I hope this isn't it.
Em Schulz: Is this our birthday episode?
Christine Schiefer: Uh, lemme look. 329. Can you imagine?
Em Schulz: Is it?
Christine Schiefer: Oh, no. It's the next one though.
Em Schulz: Our birthday is next episode?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, 330, which is, comes out Sunday, June 4th. So your birthday was last night, so it came out at midnight between our birthdays.
Em Schulz: Oooh! Oh my gosh.
Christine Schiefer: Come on, do you what that means? That it's... So that means it'll be my time, my birthday, your time, your birthday, Pacific. It comes out on both our birthdays.
Em Schulz: That's bananas. Wow.
Christine Schiefer: That's adorable.
Em Schulz: So when you hear this, I'm 31. But this is coming from a 30-year-old voice, so maybe I sound very petite.
Christine Schiefer: You do sound very youthful. I do say. You do.
Em Schulz: Thank you. Wow, okay, so we should figure out something to do for your, for the B-day.
Christine Schiefer: Oh wait, I just realized... Never mind. This comes out... Yeah, it comes out the week before or birthdays, so you will not be 31 yet. You'll be 31 next week. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Oh shit. Okay. Next week you will hear me speaking with the voice of a 31-year-old.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah.
Em Schulz: And uh, we'll have to figure out something. I'll have to come up with something. 'Cause last time... No, two times ago was Hircine Shifter and I can't do that again.
Christine Schiefer: Oh geez.
Em Schulz: That would be too obvious.
Christine Schiefer: Oh geez, yeah.
Em Schulz: Oh man. Well, we'll see what I conjure up. [chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: Me too. I'm like, Uh-oh.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Alright. And
Christine Schiefer: that's
Em Schulz: why
Christine Schiefer: we
Em Schulz: drink.
