[intro music]
Em Schulz: Uh, hi, Christine. Welcome to my humble troll hole on-the-go abode.
[chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: Your troll hole on-the-go?
Em Schulz: Yeah. Well...
Christine Schiefer: That's a Shark Tank product, if I ever heard one.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Well, umm, my...
Christine Schiefer: Forget [0:00:25.5] ____, we've got troll hole on-the-go.
Em Schulz: I'm, I'm... Really, what it is, is I'm in my stepbrother's closet and...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, woah. [chuckle] That's weird. Okay. It's not what I was expecting.
Em Schulz: And he's been very kind to, umm, leave. I think I woke him up and I went, "You're gonna have to wake up and go somewhere else." So, umm, so thank you to Brandon.
Christine Schiefer: What, what's happening with the... Did you put that sheet up?
Em Schulz: I did. This was from last time. I was...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: I'm trying to keep a consistent mom's house background which is...
Christine Schiefer: I see... I, I... It's very familiar, that tie-dye, yeah.
Em Schulz: Yeah, it's my bed sheet from seventh grade, so...
Christine Schiefer: Oh. [laughter] Look how much use it's getting.
Em Schulz: I know. Hey, you know, I, I always knew it was meant for something, so...
Christine Schiefer: Is that like a PB Teen situation or...
Em Schulz: It was PB Teen.
Christine Schiefer: I knew it. I used to just circle all the PB Teen stuff. I don't think... I... Oh, my mom once bought me... She, she finally caved and brought me a quilt from there that I still have, umm...
Em Schulz: And I still have my blanket. See, every... I don't understand...
Christine Schiefer: It's a prized possession.
Em Schulz: Why were parents so against PB Teen when like clearly in our...
Christine Schiefer: It was expensive as shit, dude.
Em Schulz: Yeah, but if you grow math it and we're still using it in our 30s, it was like a buck-50, umm, you know?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. But if you're a single mom [laughter] and you can't afford anything for but cereal, the generic kind, then yeah, you know, I guess a quilt is expensive. Okay, Mom, I get it. Jesus.
Em Schulz: But it... It even out, so I don't know what we were complaining about, you know?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. I still have that quilt. I've wore her down, which is not a...
Em Schulz: Yeah. [chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: I guess I was proud of it a moment ago, and now I'm not proud of it anymore when I say it out loud in that context.
Em Schulz: I'm so proud of mine, so you know what, we can, again, breakeven. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Fantastic, fantastic.
Em Schulz: How are you Christine? I feel like I haven't talked to you in a million years, but I know that's not true. But when was the last time we talked?
Christine Schiefer: Well, it is true, 'cause like we were supposed to record multiple days and then we just kept putting it off. Umm...
Em Schulz: Yeah. Maybe...
Christine Schiefer: Not putting it off, but like stuff kept coming up.
Em Schulz: I feel like I got my hopes up that I was gonna see you like three times in a row, so now this time feels...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, but then you're the one playing the tease 'cause you're the one that said, "Oh, I can't record," you know? So it's like, man, you really got my hopes up.
Em Schulz: Uh-huh. That's very nice of you to say. I like being missed. But... [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: You're forcing my hand by saying, "Let's record. Oh, never mind." And I'm like, "Oh, okay, never mind."
Em Schulz: Well, anyway, I, I don't know... I don't know what to say to that except sorry. But, uh, other than that... [chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: You don't have to say anything. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad I'm here. I almost was like, "We're not even gonna record today, I bet." I just had a feeling. I was like... I don't know. I feel like three... We had three recordings planned, I think, for this... Or two or three, and it's Friday right before Christmas and I was like... I mean, if any day to bail on recording, it's a Friday before Christmas, but...
Em Schulz: I know. Uh...
Christine Schiefer: Oh well. We made it. I'm so proud.
Em Schulz: We made it. What are you drinking, Christine?
Christine Schiefer: Umm, I'm drinking my little THC seltzer. Isn't that fun?
Em Schulz: You were having a real moment with your THC stuff.
Christine Schiefer: I, I am, 'cause I'm, I'm really trying to cut back on the drinking during the holidays. I mean, I'm still drinking, don't worry everyone, but you know, I'm trying to find other ways to just, uh, take the edge off, you know. Umm, and since I can't do it in a healthy way like my therapist suggests, then I just do it with substances. So I don't know what else to say. That's just the honest truth.
Em Schulz: Umm, I am drinking... Well, I... Okay. So I went to my mom's, umm... Not closet. What do you call them? Garages? I went to her garage...
Christine Schiefer: You need to stop going in people's closets. It's like an invasion of everyone's privacy. [laughter]
Em Schulz: You know what, it was... The... A lot of these closets were mine before a whole other family moved in. Leave me alone. So...
Christine Schiefer: You spent enough time in the closet. You don't need to go back, okay?
Em Schulz: That's a good argument. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Umm, with...
Christine Schiefer: Which, all of these closets were mine. [laughter] That's also a good argument, I guess.
Em Schulz: It's like, well, we got... One of my step-siblings there like, they have grown up here since they were 9, but any time they like try to act like they like run the show and I'm just like a guest here, I'm like, "Let's be clear, I lived here for 20 years before you're even born. It's like, relax."
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Like, "Shut up." [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I would be like totally thrown by that. It's like when my brother moved into my old bedroom and turned it into his office and we're not allowed to call it my, my room anymore. And I'm like, "Well, it's my bedroom." And he's like, "No, it's my office." And I'm like, "Okay, I don't like this game."
Em Schulz: Yeah, relax. It's... Come on. Like... Anyway, so, uh, I like to assert dominance wherever I can, which is why I've decided this closet has to be my kingdom now.
Christine Schiefer: This is mine now.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Umm, and... By the way, the room that I'm in, my stepbrother's room, it was... Before it was my stepbrother's room, it was the new and improved kids' club.
Christine Schiefer: No. No, it wasn't. I knew it. Okay. I know...
Em Schulz: So please like, again...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Again, this was my fuckin' domain. Relax, Brandon, you know?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Did he pass the test? Because I tried to take the test and I fucking failed.
Em Schulz: You know what, of all the people who would... Very few would pass the test. I think considering we've looked back now and the kids' club test was just a math test, he would pass it. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. By the way, uh, and folks, if you're not on Patreon, we did an after hours where Em like revealed the binder of the folder of, umm, kids' club, uh...
Em Schulz: Documents. Official documents.
Christine Schiefer: Documents, thank you. Thank you. Portfolio, umm, the ephemera, if you will, and one of the sheets of paper was indeed the test. Well, there's a song. It was a whole thing. Umm, but I took the test and, umm, I failed the test because it's a literal algebra... It's like a fucking algebra test and I was like...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Why... So you would pass this around. Anyway, so if you wanna witness that, it's on Patreon. But it was probably the hardest I've laughed in a very long time. Umm...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: It was not embarrassed I've been in my life.
Christine Schiefer: You were so embarrassed, but I'm over here like, "How do you expect me to carry the two like on a... " I don't know. I, I feel like you and I were both just out of sorts, but, uh, it was a delightful time.
Em Schulz: I, I had a, I had a whole list of, umm, like rules that you had to follow...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Oh, God.
Em Schulz: And after all these really strict rules about what... That were like really like military rules. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: It was intense. And they were like kind of rude too, by the way.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: And the, the very last one was, "Have fun".
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. [laughter] That's right. It was like, "Clean up after yourself. Don't make a mess. Like you can't touch anything unless we tell you to, or I tell you to. Most importantly, have fun." It's like everybody's terrified now, but sure, Em.
Em Schulz: I feel like I'm actually gonna [0:06:33.3] ____. It's like I can't tell if it's out of shame or laughter. But, umm, yeah, it was really... It was embarrassing. It said a lot about who I was as a child. And again, I was trying to assert dominance, so there's a little pattern there.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. And again, we, we've, we've delved into a little bit of the psychology there of like, you and I both had this kind of like bossy streak, which I think probably came about when the parents got divorced and you know, we're trying to like assert some control over people and...
Em Schulz: I just... We were trying to control things where we could. Yeah. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Our environment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you know, we have all been there. I mean, by we all, I mean you and I. I don't know about anyone else.
Em Schulz: Just you and me, yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Just me and you. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Umm... Uh, okay. So anyway, all that... I went to my mom's garage and I was expecting to get me a D-Peppy, but all she had was cherry coke, which is essentially the same thing.
Christine Schiefer: I love a cherry coke, though.
Em Schulz: I love cherry coke.
Christine Schiefer: That's a good choice. That's a good choice.
Em Schulz: Umm, so that's what I'm drinking today. Do you have...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, wait. This is a... This... Oh. I thought it was cherry. It's not. Hmm...
Em Schulz: What flavor is it?
Christine Schiefer: Black currant. [laughter]
Em Schulz: They feel the same to me.
Christine Schiefer: They seem the same. I think it's the same.
Em Schulz: Umm, what are you drinking for? Why do you drink this week?
Christine Schiefer: Oh, gosh. Well, Em, I don't know. I feel like bad complaining to you because you have been traveling and been in, under a lot of stress.
Em Schulz: Complain.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. I don't know. I don't even have anything real except that I'm just so overwhelmed by life and baby, and she's you know, just having a growth spurt or something, and we're just all very overwhelmed. And yesterday she coughed so much that she threw up in her bed and I'm like... I just am... I'm just... Wow. I'm just... I'm just tired. And I'm behind on my life, everything. So...
Em Schulz: Really, on everything?
Christine Schiefer: You know, I feel behind.
Em Schulz: Just so you know, to everybody else, you look beyond on top of it.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, that's really very nice. Thank you. I, umm, I did shower this week, so that is a plus.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: Thank you. And I have... You know, you know, we... You told me this one. So, umm, usually I would never admit this, but I feel like you and I have talked about this. Like sometimes with the ADHD, you, you, you, you neglect like some of the basics, you know?
Em Schulz: And by sometimes you mean every second of every day.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah. So like you taught me that. So I feel like so out of sorts and it's not helping because I'm like... I just like don't... I've been bad about brushing my teeth. I've been bad about like washing my hair. I've been bad about... Just like everything feels like it just fall... I just feel like a little bit out of my mind.
Em Schulz: Well...
Christine Schiefer: That's all.
Em Schulz: One of the other consistent things that I deal with with ADHD, which is uh, another, umm... This is, I think, a universal experience with ADHD, especially the worse your ADHD is, you probably experience this, but the consistent underlying shame of like never... It's just, it's just underlying shame constantly that you're just not keeping up in the ways that "normal" people can.
Christine Schiefer: Well, isn't that... I feel like that's also a very millennial, #millennial thing, because I mean, I don't know, they've done so much... I've, I've read so many articles about this where it's like, we were raised in this kind of environment of like, work hard and you'll like achieve your goals, and like it was always just like you know, just work, work, work, work, work and I feel like that really got into our, our heads a lot of the time. So it, it can be hard to, to remember that that's not necessarily always the priority.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: But you can at least, umm, give yourself uh, a pat on the back, a gentle pat that uh, if you're struggling with self-care tasks, there's something making that happen for you. So...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Just like Christine's not brushing her teeth either, okay? So you know what, that's fine. And there's a dentist that lives across... Not lives across the street. I don't know where she lives. [laughter] Okay, sorry. Sorry, I don't know where you live. But there's a dentist like uh, in my neighborhood, the office, okay, and, umm... Actually, I do know where the other, the, the retired dentist lives 'cause he has, uh, a license plate that said something about, about pearly whites.
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: So anyway, so he roams around the neighborhood. Umm, but the dentist in my neighborhood, I'm like, every time I walk past... Walking Geo, I'm like, "Oh God, I know I should go to the fucking dentist, but like, I should probably brush my teeth first." Anyway, it's just a constant reminder.
Em Schulz: I understand.
Christine Schiefer: But, uh...
Em Schulz: No, it's, it's, it's, it sucks. But, uh, I'm, I haven't come up with a name yet, but I want to name my ADHD, so that way I could just blame things on her.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, that... Oh. Well, did you have a, umm, an imaginary friend? 'Cause I could just say Alice did it.
Em Schulz: I didn't have an imaginary friend.
Christine Schiefer: Really? Even as a... An only child? I almost said a single child. Umm...
Em Schulz: As a single child, yeah, I didn't have any imaginary friends. I, I... But I also I never got to have a drunk persona, so I feel like I wanna give her... They both have the same energy to me, like a...
Christine Schiefer: Sure, sure.
Em Schulz: Uh, so I, I need to come up with a name for her, but every now and then I'm like, "Man, that, that fucking guy. Like I just wanna wash my hair, you know?"
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah, and it's like... And, and, and they're just forcing me to watch Call the Midwife again.
Em Schulz: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Christine Schiefer: Damn it. Damin it, Alice.
Em Schulz: Well, I'm... Well, I'm sorry you feel, umm, overwhelmed. I also like... No one as... Especially as a mom of a toddler, you will never earn shame from anybody about that. Like I can...
Christine Schiefer: Well, I, I do...
Em Schulz: Overwhelm is part of the process.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, it definitely feels like it comes with the territory. And, umm, you know, everyone out there... We're recording this December 22nd. I know it doesn't come out for a few weeks, but you know, I feel like I've met a lot of people recently who are like, "Hey, I'm really struggling to get shit done and survive the holidays," and I'm like, "You know what, I know it's already, allegedly, past the holidays by the time this comes out, but you're doing great, okay? You're doing your best. You got out of bed. Or even if you didn't get out of bed... "
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: "You're breathing."
Em Schulz: You're breathing. You're breathing. That's...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Have a sip of water, as Em says. What's the thing? Say the thing.
Em Schulz: Oh, oh, oh. Uh, drink some water, you thirsty little rats.
Christine Schiefer: Look at this fucking giant thing.
Em Schulz: Your hydro jug. I still have mine too.
Christine Schiefer: Hydro jug.
Em Schulz: Hmm. Like a... I'm chugging soda when I say drink some water, you... But whatever.
Christine Schiefer: Usually I'm the one drinking coffee, so you know what, it's fine.
Em Schulz: Anyway, uh, and that's why you drink. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Why, why do you drink?
Em Schulz: I don't know what I drink. But I also feel a weird underlying overwhelm and I don't really... I mean, I have a lot of reasons for what it could be, but...
Christine Schiefer: Not to be like a crazy person or you know, just be totally off the wall woo-hoo, but, uh...
Em Schulz: Here we go.
Christine Schiefer: You... I feel like sometimes I know, and I don't know if it's just picking up on cues of like your communication style...
Em Schulz: I know I've been sucking ass at getting back to you.
Christine Schiefer: No, no, no, that's not what I mean. That's not what I mean.
Em Schulz: Oh, oh.
Christine Schiefer: I just feel like sometimes I can tell there's like a, just like, uh, a stress, a stress there. Because I feel like sometimes when you and I don't respond to each other for a while, which happens all the time, me too, but it'll be like, oh, well, like someone's in town, you're having a good time. You're having fun. I feel like I've just gotten the sense this past week, like Em is like just frazzled, yeah...
Em Schulz: That's the truth.
Christine Schiefer: And I don't know if I was just projecting, but, uh...
Em Schulz: Have my eyes just been twitching a little more every now and then?
Christine Schiefer: Well, I haven't seen you at all, first of all, but secondly, I just get the sense. I was like, I just feel like with the... The stress you had leading up to the travel and then the radio silence, I was like, "uh-oh. Em's a little overwhelmed." [chuckle]
Em Schulz: I, I've been going through it. And also there was a whole time period, I feel really bad about where like I, I did go full radio silence and uh, the first half of it was psychological, and then the second half was physical. I was in a place with terrible reception.
Christine Schiefer: Hmm.
Em Schulz: I just, uh, combined it looked really bad, but also no, you're, you were still picking up on the right things that I, I'm just... I don't know. I feel like there's a million things I wanna give 100% to and I can only give like 10% to each...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, that's kind of...
Em Schulz: And then I get...
Christine Schiefer: That's a great way to put it. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Yeah. I just feel really like I'm letting... Not letting everyone down 'cause no one's really expecting too much of me right now, but if someone were expecting something of me, I like can't do it.
Christine Schiefer: Do you know what it feels like, sort of? It's like you can't really check anything off your list 'cause you're like sort of handling multiple things, but you're not really like completing or giving your all to like in priority mode. Yeah. I feel like it's just a lot... A big to-do list and we haven't got the satisfaction of being able to like cross things off yet.
Em Schulz: Every, everything feels half-done and I feel stunted to be able to complete anything. So it just...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Yeah. No, you're picking up on the right things. Umm, and I, I, I think maybe after Christmas, half the issues will go away. Like maybe I'm just worried about people's presents and things getting here on time, and did I forget anybody and like general holiday stuff...
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: But it feels worse right now and I don't know why. Umm, then obviously... I haven't even begun thinking about our tour, but I'm sure...
Christine Schiefer: Me neither. Like that is... Maybe it's subconscious, but like I have not even... My brain hasn't even gone there, which like...
Em Schulz: Yeah. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Wait till it finds out about that.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God, this is gonna be a doozy.
Em Schulz: My brain is kind of like that little meme of the dog sitting at the table and everything's on fire.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: And it's like... Uh, my brain knows like I need to pay attention to the fire soon, but...
Christine Schiefer: Your, your brain's like "It's getting toasty in here. That's weird." [laughter]
Em Schulz: "It's getting warm, but we'll talk about it later." umm, yeah, just... And everything feels off. Like I, I... You know what I'm upset about too, let's...
Christine Schiefer: What's that?
Em Schulz: Is that back in like October or November or something, I got really stressed about something... I don't even remember what it was at this point. I got really overwhelmed and I was like, "You know what, I have been doing a lot and I think I just deserve one Em's day of fun, and I said I'm gonna have a day of fun, I'm gonna do this, this, this, this and this and this, and then I had to keep pushing the day of fun, and I still haven't had my day of fun and now it's almost...
Christine Schiefer: No.
Em Schulz: New Year. And so I'm just... I need to have my day of fun.
Christine Schiefer: This is a day of fun, talking to me in your stepbrother's closet.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: That is, you know, the dream. But, uh, no I want a day where I, I already have it all planned out, I already know what I'm gonna eat that day, I know what I'm gonna watch on TV that day, I'm gonna play Startenders. Like I got a whole day figured it out and I just haven't found... I, I don't like that I have to schedule my fun. So anyway, I...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, that's being an adult, by the way, 'cause, uh...
Em Schulz: Yeah. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I don't... I get to schedule my fun, but it's very you know, sporadic, umm, and you have a deadline. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Have you had... Have you any fun recently, or do you just feel like it's overwhelm and before that goes away, there's more overwhelm, and before that goes away, there's more?
Christine Schiefer: Uh, you know, it feels like I get little waves of like... I mean, we're having fun. Like I'm happy. I'm lucky. We're, we're doing well, everything's okay. We're, we're all alive and you know, healthy enough. But it's just like, you know, I'll, I'll be going out... I'll get invited to drinks with my stepmom or something, and then it's like, oh, that'll be fun, but then it's just like, shit, now I need to do stuff before that, and I need to find someone to babysit. Like it just feels like even the fun stuff is like kind of a chore or like a...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Like it just adds to the stress even though it's supposed to be like a relaxing thing.
Em Schulz: Like it has pre-chores.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. And even like we went to the zoo yesterday for Festival of Lights, which was really fun and... Oh, I got recognized umm...
Em Schulz: Fun.
Christine Schiefer: As I was leaving, which was very sweet. Uh, but I... I was... It was just crazy. And then as my mom was leaving, there was like a shooting in the parking lot 'cause like this...
Em Schulz: Holy shit.
Christine Schiefer: Guy jumped out of the car and started screaming about the traffic being backed up. Like it was... It just feels like anything that we do that's fun also has like its own edge of stress built into it, you know? And maybe that's just the holiday. Maybe it's like...
Em Schulz: Or maybe it's also like just being in the year of 2023 and like...
Christine Schiefer: Maybe. Right.
Em Schulz: There's no... Even on your relaxing days, you don't get to relax 'cause you have to be on high alert constantly, so.
Christine Schiefer: Right. There's always internet, so you're always finding out the bad news. There's always... Like there's always something that is like...
Em Schulz: Maybe it's just burnout, man. Maybe we're just...
Christine Schiefer: Maybe it's just our life.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Maybe it's just the world, man. That's why I'm gonna... I'm gonna open this fucking THC soda 'cause it's killing me that I haven't opened it yet.
Em Schulz: Do it.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, can you say, "Let's crack into it"?
Em Schulz: Let's crack into it. Christine, my story for you, she's a shorty, but she's a goodie.
Christine Schiefer: Hmm.
Em Schulz: And I thought maybe you're not stressed enough. So...
Christine Schiefer: Okay. You know what? You also read the cues correctly. Good job.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So with that, uh, let's talk about an exorcism.
Christine Schiefer: Ooh! Ooh! Okay.
Em Schulz: Okay. So this is the exorcism of Clarita Villanueva.
Christine Schiefer: Hmm.
Em Schulz: Now, this story, uh, Saoirse also definitely wants me to note that this is a very difficult story to know what really happened. There's a lot of versions to it. It's basically...
Christine Schiefer: I see.
Em Schulz: The worst version of telephone ever. Umm, and so I'm gonna try to give you the straightest version to this, umm, but it seems like there's a lot of plot points missing. You know what I mean?
Christine Schiefer: Yes, I do.
Em Schulz: Okay. So anyway, the notes mostly come from a Filipino writer named Ian Spike, who, uh, seems the most, uh, committed and have the most vested interest in trying to tell an authentic version of the story.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: So thank you, Ian. And the notes also mention a minister named Lester Sumrall, who does not seem to be a very reliable source, but...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: No, so thank you, Lester. Got it.
Em Schulz: So yeah, umm, it, it seems like uh... I don't know. We'll find, we'll find out how, as Lester comes along in the story. So...
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: In 1935, Clarita Villanueva was born in the Philippines and had a mother, four brothers, lived in poverty, and had an especially hard life during World War II because that was when Japan occupied a municipality of the Philippines and their headquarters was right where, uh, Clara's mom worked.
Christine Schiefer: Wow.
Em Schulz: Umm, so there was a lot of like occupation movements and all that.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: Clarita's mom worked as a fortune teller, fun fact.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: And so, interesting that of all the kids in the world to need an exorcism, that'd be someone connected to spiritualism.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. It's sort of like, oh, that's a... That's a good... That's good. But then also like, well, maybe that's why.
Em Schulz: Yeah. [chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: I don't know. Never mind.
Em Schulz: It's like if this were an urban legend, you could see very quickly what the... Like...
Christine Schiefer: Where the... Where...
Em Schulz: That there's connections to the...
Christine Schiefer: Correct. Right, exactly.
Em Schulz: So sometime after the war, Clarita's mom died and her brothers abandoned her, and that's all we have of that drama. Like I just...
Christine Schiefer: Clarita's brothers abandoned her?
Em Schulz: Abandoned her.
Christine Schiefer: Oh fuck.
Em Schulz: I'm like, that is its own story I'd like to know.
Christine Schiefer: What the hell?
Em Schulz: Umm, like what did she do? Or were they just assholes? I mean, I wanna know, you know?
Christine Schiefer: It sounds like they're assholes, I'm just gonna call it.
Em Schulz: Fair. Uh, it's said that this is when she began "sex work" to survive, although let's remember, she's a child, so...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, no.
Em Schulz: It's not really, umm, sex work if it is a whole ass child having to do this.
Christine Schiefer: Right, and you can't consent anyway, right?
Em Schulz: Exactly. Umm, there's no... The good part of this is that there's no real evidence to this part of the story. It's just...
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Added into the story these days.
Christine Schiefer: So we can hope that maybe that wasn't really the case. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Right, right. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: It seems like the best we can hope for is that the storyteller wanted to make her life seem even more tragic, and so they were like, "Oh, let's add sex work to this."
Christine Schiefer: Congratulations. Yeah, you did it. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Umm, so in 1950...
Christine Schiefer: Was that Lester who did that? I'm just asking.
Em Schulz: Yeah, it sounds like that's a Lester move for sure. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: That's such a Lester move. I just wanna make sure. Okay.
Em Schulz: In 1950... She is now 12, so let's keep in mind that her "sex work" was pre-12.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yikes. Bad, bad, bad.
Em Schulz: So in 1950, at 12 years old, she has now traveled hundreds of miles to Manila in search of her father, hoping that maybe he would want to know her. That is literally the saddest thing I've ever said in my life.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, oh. At age 12?
Em Schulz: That's so sad.
Christine Schiefer: That's fucking horrible.
Em Schulz: Finding him was obviously more difficult than she imagined. I, I feel like at 12 years old, you just go up to a person and say, "Do you know my dad?" And...
Christine Schiefer: I mean, that's what the books say, right? Are you my mom? Are you my dad? That's like all you... Yeah.
Em Schulz: Right. So she ends up not being able to find him, and as time went on, she took up work as a maid.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Umm, at one point, she was with a guy who seemed pretty serious, umm, and they planned on getting married. Uh, this is not when she's 12, by the way. She's gotten older. Umm, they were supposed to get... They were supposed to be engaged, and then she found out he was already married.
Christine Schiefer: [0:23:17.7] ____ gasp.
Em Schulz: Again, I need the storyline.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no.
Em Schulz: She becomes a dance hostess, and, uh... I think a dance hostess is like a go-go dancer.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Umm, and this is where multiple versions of the story really starts splitting off.
Christine Schiefer: I see.
Em Schulz: Umm, version one... There's many. I'm just going off of the two main ones that people hear. But one of the versions is that at, at 17, she went to see a movie on her own, and then when walking home alone, the police profiled her as a sex worker and arrested her.
Christine Schiefer: Oh God.
Em Schulz: So many problems in that sentence.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Umm, another version is that Clarita lost her job after she ended the relationship with a married guy, and then became homeless and was arrested for being a vagrant.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, great, okay.
Em Schulz: So either way, to me...
Christine Schiefer: She fell on hard times or...
Em Schulz: Unfairly arrested just by looks.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Can you imagine?
Christine Schiefer: Right, right, right.
Em Schulz: Umm, whatever version is true, she ends up being sent to what is now Manila City Jail. At the time, it was called The Old Bilibid Prison. Umm, in 1953, this is when Clarita gets there, and it was notoriously overcrowded, had outdated facilities and poor hygiene measures in this prison.
Christine Schiefer: Great.
Em Schulz: When she arrived, she suffered some sort of strange incident, and this is the beginning of the potential supernatural spin to this story.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, okay. I see.
Em Schulz: Let's just put the PSA now, out now, that I am aware that this story could very easily just be written into a psychology textbook on mental health.
Christine Schiefer: Hmm. Okay.
Em Schulz: Okay. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Good caveat.
Em Schulz: Yeah. [chuckle] Uh, but for the supernatural spin, she gets to jail, she suffers an incident where witnesses say she just starts screaming for no reason...
Christine Schiefer: [0:25:16.1] ____ gasp.
Em Schulz: And then collapses.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: When she comes to, she said that she had been attacked by two men, but this was the women's ward of the jail and no guards had been present during the incident...
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: And this is when the story very quickly turns into these attackers being entities.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, okay.
Em Schulz: Which, honestly, I don't know which is uh worse. Probably if like there were two men who snuck into the women's ward and they just got away with it because now we're blaming ghosts. But, okay.
Christine Schiefer: Right. Yeah, it's hard to say. I mean, none of it's good, as we say, it's all bad.
Em Schulz: None of it's good.
Christine Schiefer: It's all bad.
Em Schulz: That's what we should have called this podcast.
Christine Schiefer: It's all bad. Uh, we say it all the time and I'm like, that really would have been a good name. It's all bad. Maybe that can be the spin-off, And That's Why We Drink: It's All Bad.
Em Schulz: You should have a wine glass that says, "This is because it's all bad."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I drink because it's all bad.
Em Schulz: It's all bad. Umm, so anyway, she gets attacked by what are now deemed entities, because all men have been written off from being potential suspects.
Christine Schiefer: Sure.
Em Schulz: Still, Clarita swears that she was attacked. One of the beings was a very tall male...
Christine Schiefer: Uh-oh.
Em Schulz: With dark skin, dark hair, uh, dark hair covering pretty much all of his body...
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: And long things.
Christine Schiefer: Oh!
Em Schulz: The other person was much smaller, only three feet maximum...
Christine Schiefer: Oh!
Em Schulz: With cherub features. Can you imagine a little cherub attacking you?
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Isn't these... Aren't these the guys from Hercules?
Em Schulz: Oh. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Right? [chuckle]
Em Schulz: I, uh, I could see where you're maybe getting at, but... You mean Pain and Panic?
Christine Schiefer: Yes, that's their names. I forgot their names.
Em Schulz: So Pain and Panic are green and purple...
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: And have no hair on their bottoms.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, well... Okay. Well, they're demons...
Em Schulz: And they're both three feet tall. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And they have fangs, whatever. Okay. Go ahead.
Em Schulz: That's right. No.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I just figure, one's really skinny, one's really like chunky, they're just kind of like...
Em Schulz: I think the cherub one, the cherub one you're thinking of when you're thinking of is Baby Hercules who was with them. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Okay. That's maybe where I'm getting a little mixed up, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the, the horse with wings... Oh, wait. No, that's Pegasus.
Em Schulz: He's a good one.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Also, can you imagine though, like what in my mind looks like Baby Hercules attacking you? Oh my God. Umm...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I mean, no, I can't.
Em Schulz: So the second one was three feet tall with cherub features, also white hair, a mustache and no, no fangs.
Christine Schiefer: No fangs.
Em Schulz: No fangs. So... Oh, fuck, I was supposed to look up how to pronounce these and I forgot to. Umm, the first figure, the tall hairy one with fangs, he is similar to the Filipino folklore creature called the Kapre, Kapre.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: K-A-P-R-E. Kapre.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: Umm, and that creature is somewhat of a tree spirit, but before uh, it's known as a tree spirit, but that was also before umm, Spanish colonizers kind of perverted folklore that existed before them. Umm, they ended up creating these caricatures of darker-skinned indigenous people and enslaved African people in the Philippines.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: And, uh, so the Kapre, Kapre, Kapre, I feel really bad I don't know it. Umm, it, was originally a troublemaker who liked simple pranks, like moving household items. They were very protective of herd animals, and, uh, they were very peaceful unless their tree or their homes were cut down.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Umm, and then they became more vilified in racial politics and their stories ended up including pranks like abducting women and cannibalism.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, great.
Em Schulz: Umm, so even its name has roots in words used by the colonizers to describe enslaved African people and indigenous people with darker skin.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: Umm, so yikes. Uh, originally though, they sounded pretty charming. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Not so bad.
Em Schulz: And again, the same writer I talked about earlier named Ian Spike who we're getting a lot of our notes from, said that in essence, this being was an extreme corruption of indigenous Filipino's image that served as our own Boogeyman. So...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, okay.
Em Schulz: But the first being she's describing happens to be this one that now is known now as like evil in some way. So...
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: The second creature who is smaller with the cherub features...
Christine Schiefer: And the mustache.
Em Schulz: And the mustache, and is not Hercules or Pain or Panic...
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Uh, this one might be compared to another folklore creature called the Duwende, uh, which is an...
Christine Schiefer: I have heard of that.
Em Schulz: Which is an old man with white hair and a small child-sized body, and they're closely linked to the Earth, and they're offended when folks walk on their home. I would also be offended if someone's walking on my home, so...
Christine Schiefer: I get it.
Em Schulz: Umm, Duwendes can both curse people to make them sick to a point of insanity.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: Casual.
Christine Schiefer: No, not good.
Em Schulz: But also, they, uh, can be extremely kind and bring good fortune if they like you, so...
Christine Schiefer: Well, that seems like unfair 'cause, you know, just pick one lane, you know? I'm like, how am I supposed to know?
Em Schulz: Duwendes feel like that one friend we all have who's like, umm, problematic where you can't even defend them anymore, but you want them on your side when you go through some trouble, you know?
Christine Schiefer: Fair point, fair point, fair point.
Em Schulz: We've all got one where it's like, oh, I can't... I can't back any of their behavior, but also like if we end up like with a dead body near us, you want her in the situation because she'll figure it out.
[chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: Like, finally, it's our time to shine.
Em Schulz: So, umm, anyway, that's the, the energy I'm getting from Duwendes. If a person gets sick, especially having a fever or they're bloating and medical treatment doesn't work, they say that the person might be cursed by a Duwende. So...
Christine Schiefer: Hmm.
Em Schulz: I like how it's a fever or bloating, which like I have both of those all the time time. So like...
Christine Schiefer: All the time.
Em Schulz: Uh-oh. They'll need to seek help from a healer uh, who has expertise in herbal medicine and supernatural afflictions, which you know, in the western world, I really wish there were more of those.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: Uh, the same writer, Ian Spike, says that, "Western monotheistic religious cultures have introduced the concept of evil invasive demonic possessions to the Philippines' culture," when I guess that wasn't really a thing before. So...
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: Umm, and after the first attack, Clarita began battling with these figures every day, so...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, boy.
Em Schulz: So we can once again thank ourselves for creating the idealization of... Or not idealization, but...
Christine Schiefer: The vilification?
Em Schulz: The vilification of these beings and now they have been deemed demons in some way.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. I mean, we're literally demonizing them, like vilifying them.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Exactly. So this is, uh, one of the stories where we get to thank white people. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Finally. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: It's about the time they get their, their due, you know? [laughter]
Em Schulz: Yeah. Well, I don't... Yeah. We're certainly somewhere in there were to blame for sure. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I'm not surprised.
Em Schulz: After the first attack, she's now battling with these figures every day, who we have now demonized, of course. Umm, although they were two separate entities and they seemed to be in cahoots with each other, and they were these separate beings, they collectively became known as the thing.
Christine Schiefer: [0:32:43.0] ____ gasp.
Em Schulz: Yeesh.
Christine Schiefer: Ooh.
Em Schulz: So Clarita would suffer fits of agony where she would convulse on the floor and scream, cry and violently fight these invisible opponents, or the thing. She would allegedly see them when no one else could, and she would enter trance-like states for long periods of time before going into convulsions.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no.
Em Schulz: I am very aware of the, uh, similarities to epilepsy, by the way, everybody.
Christine Schiefer: Sure, yeah. True.
Em Schulz: Umm, but no, they are demons, obviously.
Christine Schiefer: Obviously.
Em Schulz: So, uh... [chuckle] This one's wild. This... I even wrote, eww here.
Christine Schiefer: [0:33:21.4] ____ gasp. Okay.
Em Schulz: One of the things that would happen to her with the thing is that she sometimes started laughing uncontrollably because she said that the attackers were tickling her.
Christine Schiefer: [0:33:30.8] ____ gasp. Ah!
Em Schulz: I call that a firm goddamn pass.
Christine Schiefer: Oh!
Em Schulz: Wow. I...
Christine Schiefer: No, thank you.
Em Schulz: See, there's nothing that makes me more mad, like instantaneously... Like the thought of someone tickling me...
Christine Schiefer: Fury.
Em Schulz: I'm... Like I'm thinking about you tickling me and I'm already so mad at you. Like...
Christine Schiefer: Fury.
Em Schulz: Oh my God. And to know that...
Christine Schiefer: By the way, we're not tickling any more folks. That's... It's... You know what, it's strange when...
Em Schulz: It's not consensual.
Christine Schiefer: It's not... Unless... Like sometimes Leona says, "Tickle my belly," and I'm like, "Okay." And I'll like...
Em Schulz: That's very precious.
Christine Schiefer: But that's... Or, "Tickly my footsies," she says. But that's it. Don't... Like you know, when kids get their laughing, but it's like an involuntary reaction, it's, it's not good. Don't, don't tickle unless you know, they're, they're into it. [laughter] Okay?
Em Schulz: You know what I heard about tickling? I don't know if this is real or not, but it makes kind of sense to me, umm, is that, parts that... Is that the reason we tickle or the reason why, umm, tickling exists is because it's to practice, or back, you know, forever ago, it was to help our kids practice to go into the fetal position if they were in danger, because...
Christine Schiefer: What?
Em Schulz: You would like tickle like the armpits or the belly or behind the knees or the feet, or the things like you curl up on, and it was...
Christine Schiefer: Curl up.
Em Schulz: It was to practice tensing up and protecting your most like sensitive spots.
Christine Schiefer: It is a sensitive spots. Yeah, that's really interesting.
Em Schulz: Yeah. I don't know if that's real, but it makes sense. It's like...
Christine Schiefer: Anthropologists, weigh in on this one 'cause I'm very curious, honestly.
Em Schulz: Yeah. But it was supposed to, I guess, teach you to get into the fetal position when you're in danger. And so...
Christine Schiefer: I mean, that's fascinating.
Em Schulz: Yeah. I, again, I don't know, but I'm, I'm rolling with it. So...
Christine Schiefer: Let's roll with it.
Em Schulz: Umm, anyway, so these things were now tickling her, and when they're invisible and demons, I guess you can't tighten up and they go away. So I don't know what to tell you.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: Umm, she also began to destroy religious imagery.
Christine Schiefer: Uh-oh.
Em Schulz: So she couldn't stand this religious statue in her cell, and so she destroyed it, as an example. Umm, when guards would see these attacks happening to her, or these incidents happening to her, they reported saying human-like bite marks appear on her.
Christine Schiefer: [0:35:41.8] ____ gasp.
Em Schulz: And they believed it was a spiritual assault.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no.
Em Schulz: Not only did the bite marks appear before their eyes... This part, I can't explain. This is kind of crazy.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Umm, not only did the bite marks appear before their eyes, but there were also parts of Clarita... They were on parts of Clarita that she couldn't have possibly reached on her own.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no.
Em Schulz: So they're like on the back of her neck and stuff like that.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no, no, no, no, that's not good.
Em Schulz: It's certainly not good because if the rest of this is epilepsy, someone else is biting her and getting away with it.
Christine Schiefer: Something bad... Right. Something bad is happening either way, yeah.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm. Uh, Clarita was now getting worse. She told her cellmates that the thing was going to kill her...
Christine Schiefer: [0:36:19.2] ____ gasp.
Em Schulz: And eventually, her story hits the papers.
Christine Schiefer: Oh boy.
Em Schulz: It drew international interest. The mayor of Manila didn't believe it and thought that it would cast a negative or superstitious light on the city, and so tried to kind of avoid bringing up the story even further than it needed to go.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Either way, complete side bar, but I said the word mayor and now I have to tell you.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: There's a new mayor in Burbank, my, my hometown.
Christine Schiefer: [0:36:46.6] ____ gasp. Who is it?
Em Schulz: Mayor Schulzt. I'm not kidding. There is a mayor, and his name is Mayor Schulzt, and he is the mayor of Burbank.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God. Literally thought it was you and I was like, "I can't do this, Em. I'm sorry."
Em Schulz: Okay, Christine. I literally, I have... Okay. I told, I told Allison this a long time ago...
Christine Schiefer: Oh I know.
Em Schulz: And I still believe it to my very core that I could be a mayor. I couldn't be...
Christine Schiefer: I know you do. I know you do. I know this is part of your internal monologue with, dialogue with yourself. I know that about you just inherently.
Em Schulz: In the long, in the long con, I couldn't go further than mayor. That's too much. But...
Christine Schiefer: Of course.
Em Schulz: But all I wanna do is end up in a small little cobblestone water town where everyone knows each other's name and I wanna be the mayor.
Christine Schiefer: And instead you're in Greater Los Angeles.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: But... Okay. But there's already a Mayor Schulzt in Burbank, which means that like it's been done before, you know. Like that's assigned to me. This is where people start to see that I also am mentally ill, but like that's...
Christine Schiefer: You're like, "Oh well, they, they, they ran so I could also run."
Em Schulz: It's clearly possible that Burbank could have a Mayor Schulzt. And you know what would happen if I were the next Mayor Schulzt?
Christine Schiefer: I don't want to know.
Em Schulz: I would become sister cities with Idyllwild or whatever it's called, where they have Mayor Max, the golden retriever...
Christine Schiefer: Oh right.
Em Schulz: And the two of us would have mayoral floats together and we would just...
Christine Schiefer: Mayoral float.
Em Schulz: We would go to the coffee shop, we'd discuss city politics, you know? It'd be a good time. Anyway, so vote for me, Mayor Schulzt in the upcoming election. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: That is pretty bananas, Em. I... Did you vote for Mayor Schulzt?
Em Schulz: No. I found out on Instagram. They were like...
Christine Schiefer: What?
Em Schulz: "Welcome, Mayor Schulzt," and I was like, "What?" And so, umm, let's just put it this way. Okay. So here's the situation.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: He, he spells it with a T. Ugh.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, well, so it doesn't really count. No offense.
Em Schulz: T is for trouble, I tell you. And so...
Christine Schiefer: That's exactly right. With a capital T and it rhymes with P and it stands for... You know that song?
[laughter]
Em Schulz: No. What are you talking about?
Christine Schiefer: With a capital T that rhymes with P, you got trouble.
Em Schulz: Are you okay?
Christine Schiefer: Right here in River city. You got trouble, my friend with a capital T and rhymes with P and that stands for Pool.
Em Schulz: I don't know where... Did that... Did you just rap it for me? Is that your new free-flow? What was that?
Christine Schiefer: Right here in River City, right here in River City with a capital T that rhymes with P and that stands for Pool. That stands for Pool! It's from The Music Man.
Em Schulz: When you're, when you're a jet, you're a jet all the way. I don't know. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: It's from The Music Man.
Em Schulz: Not that at all. Well, here's the situation about Mayor Schulzt. I told Allison, and Allison, if you're listening, which I know you are, you better do this or else, I'm gonna scream.
Christine Schiefer: [0:39:27.7] ____ gasp.
Em Schulz: That's usually my... That's my threat to her usually.
Christine Schiefer: I'm gonna scream. I mean, it's a terrible threat because like we can't...
Em Schulz: 'Cause I'll do it.
Christine Schiefer: 'Cause we can't have that. We know you'll, you'll follow through.
Em Schulz: My regular threat is "If you don't do this, I'll scream." And a lot of times, it's like I'll scream until you're screaming to not hear my scream any longer.
Christine Schiefer: And then we're all in trouble.
Em Schulz: And then we're all in trouble. Here's the thing, Allison, if you're listening, and everybody, please weigh in, make sure Allison knows about this if you need to, I don't know, reach out to her however you can, thank you. I need a shirt that says Mayor Schulzt of Burbank, now that that's a thing, but we're gonna have to cross out the T in some way. So...
Christine Schiefer: Well, you know I have a Cricut machine. I don't know why you're bringing Allison into this.
Em Schulz: Well, Allison, if you're listening, text Christine. It's possible. I don't know...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, text me. We'll, we'll probably talk about something else, but text me anyway.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I want a Mayor Schulzt shirt so bad. I'm like such a monster about this. Okay, anyway.
Christine Schiefer: You're a lunatic is what you are, but okay, sure. So the mayor is like, "I'm not into this ghost thing," which like you would be the opposite. Okay, got it.
Em Schulz: It'd be like, "We have a demon on our hands."
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, sure you do.
Em Schulz: "We're gonna have to have a panel, uh, a town hall meeting with Zak Bagans. See, I would be great at being mayor.
Christine Schiefer: And the dog. And the dog.
Em Schulz: This is gonna be used against me during my election, this whole audio, I already know.
Christine Schiefer: Em, the whole podcast... Like this audio? I'm like, what do you mean this audio? Last week, we... A few weeks ago, we talked about like playing weird sex games as children. So I think like we're done for in any sort of office capacity.
Em Schulz: You know what... You know what my platform would be? I, I may be unstable, but I'm just, I'm just the average... I'm the common man, you know?
Christine Schiefer: Sure.
Em Schulz: I'm relatable. I, I'm honest. Like all my deepest, darkest secrets are on this podcast, so you...
Christine Schiefer: Hmm.
Em Schulz: You, you're not gonna find anything else, you know? So...
Christine Schiefer: No skeletons in that closet. Well, actually, except for the ones that, that we buy for the tour. Yeah.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Okay. Anyway, anyway, anyway, yes, okay, so the mayor of Manila, he's like, "We're really worried about turning our people into looking like we're a superstitious group. I don't... This could give us a really bad light." So this is now a few days later, Clarita was brought to the city...
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: Like taken out of the jail. By the way, was she's still in fucking jail this whole time sort of looking homeless?
Christine Schiefer: It sounds like it.
Em Schulz: Jesus Christ.
Christine Schiefer: She... Well, yeah, 'cause she even said like... Yeah, that's terrible. 'Cause she even said, umm, like she was talking... Told her cellmates she was getting worse.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Oh, this poor girl. Okay. So she was brought to the city, and not just any part of the city, not even like town hall, she was brought to the city's morgue.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: To be evaluated, but like...
Christine Schiefer: What?
Em Schulz: [0:42:02.9] ____ or just like a hospital? Okay.
Christine Schiefer: A doctor? Whatever.
Em Schulz: She gets taken to the morgue. Doctors, psychiatrists, politicians and reporters all come out to see one of her attacks. So now she's like... Her incidents are being exploited.
Christine Schiefer: Oh boy.
Em Schulz: In front of everyone, she does suffer another attack and she was held down. The mayor saw bite marks appear on her finger and her neck.
Christine Schiefer: [0:42:24.4] ____ gasp.
Em Schulz: Uh, Clarita was pricked with pins, which we've talked about before.
Christine Schiefer: Oh God, no, I hate that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Em Schulz: Used to be a test that if you reacted to the pins, then you... It wasn't an authentic possession if you...
Christine Schiefer: That's just Bananagrams, dude, but whatever.
Em Schulz: But she did not react to the pain, so they thought, "Okay, a devil must have taken over her body since she doesn't feel pain to this." umm, they asked Clarita to draw the thing, but when she was given a pencil, it was ripped out of her hands by an invisible force.
Christine Schiefer: Ooh!
Em Schulz: The second time they said, "Okay, draw the thing so we know what it looks like," she ate the paper.
Christine Schiefer: [0:43:03.2] ____ gasp.
Em Schulz: I can't explain that.
Christine Schiefer: I mean...
Em Schulz: Everything so far has been epilepsy. This part, I don't understand.
Christine Schiefer: I mean, it could be just mental health stuff.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: You know, mental illness. But...
Em Schulz: Totally.
Christine Schiefer: But also it's, it's, it's disturbing... I'm sure it was upsetting to watch.
Em Schulz: The mayor was like, "I did not sign up for this."
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. The mayor was like, "I just wanted to sit on a float with a dog, and now here I am in the morgue."
Em Schulz: Right, exactly, exactly. You know, you gotta call Mayor Maxim for things like this 'cause he'll...
Christine Schiefer: That's right.
Em Schulz: He'll sniff it out.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: That should be his tagline. "I'll sniff it out."
Christine Schiefer: "I'll sniff it out." I mean, I feel like that's probably the tag line of like every childhood book about the dog, but you know, still works.
Em Schulz: I know. Do you remember his actual tagline, Mayor Max?
Christine Schiefer: Uh, no, actually. What is it?
Em Schulz: "The paw is the law."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Okay, that's good. That's good. They don't need to change it.
Em Schulz: He has a shirt too, by the way. If, if Mayor Max can have a shirt, I need a shirt. That's all I'm saying.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, sure. 'Cause you're just as special as the dog who's become mayor. That's right, Em.
Em Schulz: And he's... And I'm, I'm not even actually a mayor and he is. I literally...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, I, we know, but thank you, thank you for reminding us. Oh, I'm not even a mayor. Really? That's weird.
Em Schulz: Shut up, Christine. Just let me be. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Allison, please text me. I'm desperate now. I need somebody to like just, I don't know, relate to this over...
Em Schulz: If you guys could get me a Mayor Schulzt shirt and then get Mayor Max to somehow be in on this, I'd just lose my mind. I would just...
Christine Schiefer: All right. I'll heat up the Cricut.
Em Schulz: Ah! Okay. Okay, okay, okay. Sorry. We're really getting away from like this really sad story.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah, we are.
Em Schulz: I'm not trying to be... I'm, I just... I'm not trying to be an asshole. I just also have never gotten to really talk about this too much except for that other time. Okay.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: They... Yeah, yeah. They pricked her, pricked her with pins, which by the way, if I were... Even if I were possessed, if I saw needles coming at me, I'd be like, "No, I'm awake, I'm awake. I'm... "
Christine Schiefer: Bye. Yeah, I'd be like... Uh, if I were the demon, I'd be like, "Wait, just 'cause I'm a demon doesn't mean I want you to poke me with needles."
Em Schulz: Right, exactly. I've never understood this, this version of things. But...
Christine Schiefer: Wait, Em.
Em Schulz: What?
Christine Schiefer: Mayor Max died.
Em Schulz: [0:45:10.1] ____ gasp. What?
Christine Schiefer: Well, in 2022. Unless there's...
Em Schulz: No, he didn't. There's a Mayor Max...
Christine Schiefer: Are you sure?
Em Schulz: Yeah. His son is also Mayor Max.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, oh, oh, it's the three... The third.
Em Schulz: Oh my God. Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: I'm so sorry. I just like Googled him and it said RIP and I was like, uh-oh.
Em Schulz: Oh my God, Christine.
Christine Schiefer: Well, okay.
Em Schulz: We're okay.
Christine Schiefer: I'm just... Okay.
Em Schulz: We're okay.
Christine Schiefer: Are you sure?
Em Schulz: We're okay. The Mayor Max...
Christine Schiefer: Are we positive.
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, okay. I apologize.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Oh my God. No, I've...
Christine Schiefer: I'm, I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to upset anybody.
Em Schulz: I was like, I just watched one of his livestreams two days ago.
Christine Schiefer: Oh okay, good, good, good. So you're... So he's fine.
Em Schulz: He's fine.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, great. Never mind. Sorry. Phew. I'm so sorry for that. I didn't mean upset anybody.
Em Schulz: Sinful. That was fucking awful.
Christine Schiefer: I'm, I'm sorry, okay?
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: I'm taking my name off the ballot.
Em Schulz: Evil.
Christine Schiefer: Yes, I was gonna run against you, but now I won't. I'll give it to you.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Okay, but wait, like can we... Wait. Can we both, umm...
Christine Schiefer: No. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Uh, okay. I was gonna say, what if we made like a fake ballot and like we just let our like our, our uh, our audience vote.
Christine Schiefer: For just either you or me? They'd probably put in, write in candidates for like anybody else.
Em Schulz: No, we would... Well, we'll each have a platform, like what would you do if you were the mayor of And That's Why We Drink, you know?
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I see. Okay.
Em Schulz: Like what would you do? You'd make everyone get drunk. I think you'd win, actually. I don't wanna play anymore.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I don't wanna play anymore. Yeah, Em's like, "Christine, you're so competitive. You're such a sore loser," and then the second Em creates their own game and decides, "Never mind, I don't wanna lose."
Em Schulz: I just, I just wanna be the mayor somewhere. That's all. That's all. Just...
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Listen, I won't take that from you, I promise.
Em Schulz: Thank you. Okay. She tries to draw the thing, she eats paper. That's where we left off.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Em Schulz: A doctor there believes that she's faking all this. Wow! Yikes. A doctor thinks she's faking it, which like, I guess, but also you couldn't even try the theory that she's ill? Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, but... Yeah, yeah.
Em Schulz: Yeah, yeah, but yeah is exactly right. Umm, Clarita, here's the doctor saying she's faking all this, she turns to him and growls that he's going to die.
Christine Schiefer: Uh-oh.
Em Schulz: And the rumor has it that the next day he had a heart attack and died.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. I was gonna say, how many days till the heart attack happen? Okay.
Em Schulz: One.
Christine Schiefer: Yikes. That is scary. If that's true, that's very frightening.
Em Schulz: Another employee at the prison who was cruel to Clarita, which, holy shit, used to kick her while she was convulsing...
Christine Schiefer: What the fuck?
Em Schulz: Died from a mysterious illness after Clarita growled at him too. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Uh-oh.
Em Schulz: Before he died though, he said that Clarita asked where his own crucifix was because it had gone missing from him...
Christine Schiefer: [0:47:52.1] ____ gasp.
Em Schulz: And then later she said to check his pockets and it was there. So now she's able to like...
Christine Schiefer: She's Chris Angel. She's David Blaine.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: At will, she's just removing things from you and then putting them in your pants.
Christine Schiefer: That's kickass. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Umm, so she at least like royally freaked him out before wishing him death. So...
Christine Schiefer: Before growling at him and causing a heart attack.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Rumors spread very quickly that Clarita was a witch and she could vengefully kill anyone that she wanted, umm, which like, I love that the mayor was like, "I don't want us to look superstitious," and now the paper's like, "She's a fucking witch."
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. This... I feel like this is the, what do you call it, the Streisand effect, where it's like, "Well, let's keep this on the DL," and then suddenly like, "Wait, it's gotten so much worse and everybody knows about it now."
Em Schulz: It snowballed everywhere.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no.
Em Schulz: Umm, apparently though she... And I don't know, I don't know where, where this is when it comes to mental health or spirituality, but at the same time all this was happening, Clarita was also really scared of her possession, which doesn't surprise me because, first of all, if you are, if you're truly possessed, you'd be scared, and if you had a mental illness that no one was taking seriously, you'd be fucking scared.
Christine Schiefer: You'd be scared. And even if you thought it was some sort of demonic possession because you didn't realize it was a mental health thing, that would also be fucking scary.
Em Schulz: If you're like uncontrollably convulsing and this was at a time when like epilepsy maybe wasn't as, as big or as well-known...
Christine Schiefer: It wasn't as popular back then. It wasn't as well-understood. Yeah. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Or like if, if, if the best you've got is demons are inside of you and that's what everyone's rolling with now, and also now the world thinks you're a witch, so now you've got real physical fear to be scared too.
Christine Schiefer: Now you're in danger. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Oh. And so, despite her aversion to religious symbols, someone actually gifted her a rosary, which she would hold during spiritual attacks. So she was trying to cling on literally to...
Christine Schiefer: Wow.
Em Schulz: Religion wherever she could. Umm, and medical experts couldn't agree on a diagnosis. Some said that she was having genuine spiritual attacks. Others thought it was, like we said, epilepsy or psychosis. Umm, some suggested that this was all because she was extremely malnourished and dehydrated, umm, which would cause the incidents. I don't... Uh, I could see that being like maybe an additional trigger just to...
Christine Schiefer: Hmm. Couldn't help... It probably didn't help. Yeah, sure.
Em Schulz: Umm, the story eventually found its way to Lester Sumrall, umm...
Christine Schiefer: Oh boy.
Em Schulz: An American evangelist pastor.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Yes. He evangelized uh, for 50-plus years in nearly 120 countries. And he basically founded Christian TV, and he made the very first 24-hour Christian station.
Christine Schiefer: How do I not know this guy? Lester Holt?
Em Schulz: Lester Sumrall.
Christine Schiefer: No, that's Dateline. Sorry, Lester.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, I don't know...
Em Schulz: It's actually Stone Phillips umm... I haven't heard that name in a million years. Uh, Lester...
Christine Schiefer: I have no, I have no idea who that is.
Em Schulz: Oh really? Oh...
Christine Schiefer: No.
Em Schulz: He was like a big... I, I feel like I knew a bunch of moms who had a crush on him.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God. Oh okay. Yeah, so you're right. Co-anchor of Dateline. Wow, you are in the retro years here.
Em Schulz: Yeah. I remember him going, "And I'm Stone Phillips."
Christine Schiefer: Okay, yeah. Now, when you say it in that voice, I definitely know. I know, I'm Lester Holt. That's usually my go-to.
Em Schulz: Yes. Uh, so Lester Sumrall is the guy that we're talking about.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: He was evangelizing nearby when he heard about Clarita and decided he was the person to intervene, 'cause I bet Jesus told him to do it.
Christine Schiefer: I'm sure. I'm sure.
Em Schulz: He thought if he were successful in exorcising her... I love that he didn't even need experience in this, he was just like, "Oh, I'm gonna exorcise your demons out."
Christine Schiefer: Great.
Em Schulz: He thought it would be a very convenient tactic to draw people to his new church because he saved the Philippines from, from her with Christ.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God, this is... Well, that mayor is probably having just like all his hair is falling out. He's so stressed. He's like, "I really was trying to keep this on the DL and now... "
Em Schulz: Well, I don't know about that, because my very next bullet point is he and the mayor agreed that if he helped Clarita, then Lester would get to preach the gospel in front of Manila City Hall for the next six weeks.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: What the fuck?
Em Schulz: So the mayor has totally leaned into this and was like...
Christine Schiefer: All right.
Em Schulz: I wonder if it's because he was so stressed out about it, he was like, "You know what, get whatever you want if you can put the story to rest."
Christine Schiefer: Right, right. He probably could have asked for more. He probably could ask to be mayor.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: "Take my job." Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Honestly, yeah. He'd probably like, "You know what, I'm over it. You can have it."
Em Schulz: You know, as mayor, by the way, just to like give you a little snippet into what I could do for the community...
Christine Schiefer: What, what it's like for you to be mayor, right, sure.
Em Schulz: I just want everybody to know that if you vote for me in the next mayoral election, just know that I would never give up my job for an evangelist. Let's just be clear.
Christine Schiefer: Oh okay. I do... Honestly, this is the first thing you said that makes me wanna vote for you, so thank you.
Em Schulz: You're welcome. So just know that I stand firm. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Lester also says, I'll do you even one better, and I'm gonna get myself a permit free of all legal and administrative fees to build an enormous church in your city.
Christine Schiefer: Oh boy. Okay.
Em Schulz: That church still exists today.
Christine Schiefer: No way.
Em Schulz: Which, by the way, like what are the... Like if I were gonna go to a church, I'd kind of wanna go to the one that was built like and there's somehow a story of an exorcism attached to it.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. It feels like it has quite the lore behind it, like they could do tours of it, you know?
Em Schulz: Yeah, totally, totally. But at the same time that I'm like, "Oh, but I'd be going to a church that was built on the back of one woman who had a horrible life."
Christine Schiefer: And I'd be like, "Oh, I'd be going to church." [laughter]
Em Schulz: Oh, right, yes, of course. That too. Umm, so when Clarita met Lester, she reportedly said, "I hate you."
Christine Schiefer: Oh!
Em Schulz: Atta girl. And she said it in English, even though she didn't speak English.
Christine Schiefer: [0:53:39.8] ____ gasp. Okay. So this demon is a multilingual. Okay.
Em Schulz: Exactly. So people saw it as her speaking in tongues.
Christine Schiefer: Oh wow. Okay.
Em Schulz: Because now she's speaking a language that she couldn't before.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my. Okay.
Em Schulz: I love that even the demon was like, English is the way I'm gonna go with this, but, uh I hate you, Lester.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, "I know this one." Yeah.
Em Schulz: While most witnesses say she only said, I hate you, the story was later embellished that she ended up saying many insults to Lester in English. But even if she had, Clarita would not be unfamiliar with English because she was born into and raised under US occupation. So...
Christine Schiefer: Hmm.
Em Schulz: There's a chance she knew the words I hate you, umm, or at least the insults. I mean, if you ask me to say anything in a language chances are it's a swear word.
Christine Schiefer: Exactly. We only know the bad ones, right, exactly.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Umm, well, because of this, Lester is like, girl, you need an exorcism because you're speaking in tongues.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: And probably because you're challenging me or humbling me in front of people.
Christine Schiefer: And you hate me, so like that can't be right. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Exactly. You clearly don't have enough Jesus, so we're gonna give you an exorcism.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, let's fix that.
Em Schulz: He worked with two other ministers during the ceremony. He took Clarita's rosary that she loved and said it was idolatrous because he was a Protestant. What?
Christine Schiefer: Okay, calm down.
Em Schulz: The exorcism took over three days of prayer and singing as Clarita suffered more assaults. This is a reminder to everybody that she's having like compulsive episodes and nobody's helping her. They're just chanting over her.
Christine Schiefer: Right. They're just singing, yeah.
Em Schulz: And at one point, she said the demons left out of the window, and maybe she was just like desperate for them to stop and she was like, "Nope, they're gone. You win. They're right."
Christine Schiefer: Oh geez.
Em Schulz: But then she had another attack in front of them, so they knew that... They saw it as she was lying.
Christine Schiefer: She just... Oh, she probably just wanted it to stop.
Em Schulz: That's what I'm saying. She was probably like, "You win."
Christine Schiefer: That's terrible.
Em Schulz: After the three days, Lester considered her saved, which, what did she have to do to prove that?
Christine Schiefer: Sure.
Em Schulz: Umm, and he told her that it was up to her in the future to keep the demons out if they ever came back, which is such a gross gaslighting, victim-blaming situation.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, like take all... I mean, he's a good businessman. He's like, if anything ever happens, I'm not liable.
Em Schulz: Right, right. But he's also like, "By the way, if they come back, just know that that, that was on you." Like, ugh.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. What the fuck?
Em Schulz: It's said that a while later, Clarita began to scream and told a prison guard, so I guess she went straight back to jail after all this, Jesus Christ. Umm, she told a prison guard that the thing was back and standing behind the guard.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no.
Em Schulz: She started swinging on these like beings behind him, but then the guard told Clarita to remember Lester's instructions to just ignore it, which like, is that not the most like your dad saying to get over depression thing?
Christine Schiefer: For God's sake. Yeah, just ignore it. Pretend it's not there.
Em Schulz: Uh, so she tried to push away the demons.
Christine Schiefer: Pray the gay away.
Em Schulz: Exactly. She tried to push away the demons, uh, and Clarita eventually passed out. When she fainted, a medical exam allegedly found a two-inch long black hair under her fingernails...
Christine Schiefer: Eww.
Em Schulz: And the doctors tested the hair and proved that it was not Clarita's and not even human.
Christine Schiefer: [0:56:40.1] ____ gasp.
Em Schulz: And there was no DNA evidence, by the way, to confirm or deny this. They just decided that this must be a non-human hair.
Christine Schiefer: Hmm.
Em Schulz: Umm, and I guess removing that one hair was all it took, because once they remove that hair from her fingernails, the demons ever came back.
Christine Schiefer: Wow, that's convenient.
Em Schulz: So, uh, if you apparently are either possessed or have epilepsy, just check your fingernails for one hair, decide it's not human, and then remove it. And...
Christine Schiefer: I mean...
Em Schulz: Obviously, it'll be done.
Christine Schiefer: It probably is not human, uh, at least if you have a cat or a dog or...
Em Schulz: Right. I was like, especially like uh, not too long ago, a lot of prisons had like cats to like get rid of the mice and stuff. So...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Oh, by the way, speaking of, we got... I don't know if you've opened your mail, but I got a umm... Oh, shoot, I have to go check him... I'll check later who uh, sent it, but a umm... What's his name? Is his name Dennis the cat?
Em Schulz: Oh, Dennis the cat.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Like a, like, umm, I think it was a sticker or something, or a patch. It was a patch and it...
Em Schulz: [0:57:37.3] ____ gasp.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, it was really cute.
Em Schulz: Oh hell, yeah.
Christine Schiefer: So you should check your, you should check your mail, 'cause I'm sure you got one too.
Em Schulz: Okay. Eva, you're still in LA, go check my mail. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Oh yeah. You're not even there. Okay. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Umm, a judge sent Clarita to live essentially in an orphanage for a formal education. 'Cause remember, all this happened before she was 18.
Christine Schiefer: Right. Yeah. Well... Okay. That's mindful...
Em Schulz: So I don't even know the storyline as to how she got out of jail because she went to jail for really no reason, then she was possessed and had to go back to jail after staying at the morgue with this fucking Lester guy.
Christine Schiefer: Geez.
Em Schulz: All after her apparently like selling herself for sex, which, what does that even mean?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: And now... At some point she was relieved from jail and now she's going to an orphanage. Like life just couldn't get worse for this poor girl.
Christine Schiefer: I mean, for real.
Em Schulz: Umm, meanwhile, Lester used Clarita's story to push his evangelism and he called Clarita in his own testimony, a harlot, a demonized little country girl.
Christine Schiefer: Eww!
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm. And he used that...
Christine Schiefer: What the... Grow up.
Em Schulz: He used that story to push his own agenda, and he accused Clarita's mother, umm, as not being a real fortuneteller and ripping people off, umm, just to like salt the wound, I guess, so like, "Oh, and her mom was playing with... "
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Was not only robbing people, but playing with spirits, and that's what caused this harlot demonized girl...
Christine Schiefer: What a fucking asshole.
Em Schulz: To have all these problems. His testimony pretty much suggested that Clarita was attacked by demons because her mom worked in the spiritual world and it's why she sold her body.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, sure.
Em Schulz: Umm, apparently, he also claimed that when Clarita fainted in front of him, he would wake her up by slapping her upside the head. So now he's also admitting to hitting children.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God!
Em Schulz: He... Keep in mind, like you're a child, your mom is gone, your brothers are gone, you've had to experience sex with adults, and uh, by that I mean fucking rape, let's be clear.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Em Schulz: Then you go to prison with adults for being on the street, then you are having convulsive episodes, no one's taking care of except they're telling you, a child, that they're demons, then you're...
Christine Schiefer: And they're bringing you to the fucking morgue and back to jail.
Em Schulz: Then they take you to the morgue, then this guy showing up and while you're having convulsive episodes and you're scared 'cause you're a kid, he's also hitting you and saying, this is all your fault. And then you go back to jail, and then you go to an orphanage, and then you hear across the, the country that this man is using your story and calling you a harlot and you were asking for it because your mom was a thief and a fake and also was playing with ghosts.
Christine Schiefer: This is disturbing.
Em Schulz: And then you turn 18. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Happy birthday.
Em Schulz: Yeah. So he also said that he was the savior and he helped Clarita get out of prison, he helped her find medical care, and now because of everything he did, the savior, she is now a happily married woman.
Christine Schiefer: And wouldn't you know it? That's amazing.
Em Schulz: Wouldn't you know it?
Christine Schiefer: I'm so, I'm so impressed.
Em Schulz: It's all because of him.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: So in 1967, she's 32 years old, she's our age, and she said that she was seeking help pursuing royalties from media outlets who financially profited from her story and...
Christine Schiefer: Yes.
Em Schulz: And other than Lester's story on what happened to Clarita after her exorcism, there was pretty much no information and that includes if she ever got compensation. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: To this day though, Lester Sumrall continues to use Clarita's story to bolster his own legacy, of course. And his website, like on the About page even says that, "In one revival in the Philippines, Dr. Lester Sumrall was the catalyst of God to deliver a demon-possessed girl that resulted in over 150,000 souls coming to Jesus Christ in just six weeks' time."
Christine Schiefer: This guy sounds like a fucking idiot.
Em Schulz: Many believe that Clarita, including us, I assume, is, uh, is more of a victim of an American man's desire for fame power...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Than an actual victim of demons. And wherever she is now, she deserves all the medical care, all the therapy... I... Deserves it all. So anyway, that is the "exorcism" of Clarita Villanueva.
Christine Schiefer: That's a wild tale. Like sometimes your stores really do veer into the true crime and I would, I would argue this is one of them. Umm...
Em Schulz: Yeah, definitely.
Christine Schiefer: Yikes. Well, you know, I don't know what she was going through, whether it was paranormal or not, but umm, yeah, like you said, I, I hope she's... I hope ended up, you know, with a fulfilling life.
Em Schulz: Me too.
Christine Schiefer: I do. I hope that for her. Umm, wow, okay. What a story, Em. Uh, let's switch to my side of things. This is the murder of Brenda Powell.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Now this is a very recent case, okay? Uh, we're talking 2022. And so...
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. A lot of it is very, umm, what do you say... How do you say it? Uh, it's like in, in progress. TBD. TBD.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: So you know, there's, there's some gaps in information and timelines.
Em Schulz: That's interesting, you usually, uh, go for the cases where you have all your information.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. I feel like this one is... You know, I do usually wait, and I think that's oftentimes with like the really big nationwide cases...
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: That are getting like a ton of coverage because I'm like, I wanna wait to see how everyone else kind of covers this. I wanna see like, you know... I don't wanna jump on it and just like side with whatever I'm hearing from the news...
Em Schulz: Sure.
Christine Schiefer: But in this case, like really barely anyone's ever covered, has covered this so far. It's not really gaining like widespread, you know?
Em Schulz: Oh okay.
Christine Schiefer: Traction or anything. So there's really not that much about it. Umm you can... If you search for it on YouTube, a couple of people have covered it, umm, and then you can also watch the live court testimonies, which I did, which is you know, is where most this information comes from. And Saoirse watched them as well. Uh, so you know what? We're doing our best. We're doing... As far as we know, as of 12/22/23, this is the most accurate information we have.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: So Brenda K. Powell, she was born March 19th, 1969 in Salem, Ohio. Woo-hoo.
Em Schulz: Oh. There are so many damn Salems in this country.
Christine Schiefer: I know. I just think there's so many repeat names 'cause nobody can be creative, you know?
Em Schulz: Yeah. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, so maybe if you can't make it mayor over there, you could be a mayor of Salem, Ohio, and you can just say Mayor of Salem.
Em Schulz: Oh. Christine, don't even, don't even test me.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's try it. Umm, I can see the t-shirt now. I can see the float. Oh, I've so many plans.
Em Schulz: I do too.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. So Brenda grew up in Salem, Ohio. She grew up as a very compassionate person, very well-loved by her family and friends. She went to University of Akron, and then began work as a child life specialist.
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: So do you know what this job is?
Em Schulz: A child life specialist? I... Uh, some sort of child therapy? I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, sort... Yeah, sort of. So it's it's basically a very unique and of course, important healthcare role, uh which focuses on helping families and children cope with serious childhood illnesses or injuries.
Em Schulz: Oh wow. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: So essentially, you know, she would use strategies like therapeutic play to work through fears about children's medical needs and, and procedures, and you know, was also there for the parents, uh...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Especially if they were going through their own anxieties, and basically her role was to empower the families with knowledge about what's going on, about what's going on with their bodies, umm, with the treatment and that kind of thing, which I just think is like such a selfless job.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: So they provide support resources. They work closely with the patient's medical teams and they advocate for the patient's needs and wishes, which I imagine, you know, a child especially would need somebody to, to help with that.
Em Schulz: Oh yeah, that's lovely.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. It's a, it's a really cool concept. I hadn't heard of it, the, the role before. So Brenda worked at the Center for Childhood Cancer and Blood Disorders at Akron Children's Hospital and genuinely, people loved her. Like she was just one of those people that was remembered fondly by everyone. Umm, parents of children undergoing cancer treatment, for example, described her as loving and compassionate, and she really made it her life's work to make her patients and their families comfortable while they stayed in the oncology wing for treatment. So parents who lost children, uh, in Brenda's care also had only good things to say about her. Umm, they described her as a huge source of comfort as they were going through like not only their child's sickness, but if the child passed, just the bottomless well of grief that came along with that.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: And so Brenda was a very, very big-hearted person, and she deeply loved her patients and their families. Umm, one former patient even said, "She was like a second mom to me, and the mom at the hospital. She treated us just like her own children."
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. She was also really involved with her own family's, you know, lives and and what they had going on. So her husband's name was Steven and her two children were Sydney, the oldest, and Andrew, the youngest. And she would plant family outings. She would show up for all her kids' extracurriculars. So for example, one childhood friend, umm, of Sydney, the daughter, said that when she was in Girl Scouts, soccer and dance classes with Sydney, Brenda was there at every single game, every event, was cheering everybody on. Umm, so very active mom, in addition to being, you know, very active at work as well.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: So Brenda was extremely proud of her daughter Sydney. Umm, like I said, she was doing a lot of extracurriculars, very active, social, uh very friendly. She was a really good student. She had entered St. Vincent, which is a Catholic High School, as a freshman in 2014. Doesn't that make you feel old?
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm. Sure does.
Christine Schiefer: She did, she did her work 'cause she got good grades. She was in school groups like ski club. Umm, she went on ski trips and attended religious retreats to pray with fellow students, and she was actively working to develop her relationship with God. Umm, she was one of those kids that teachers just adored. Like she just never caused trouble. Umm, one teacher described her as respectful, conscientious and quiet. She had a lot of friends, and her friends all described her as bubbly and well-liked by her peers and her teachers. And even though she was overall a really good student and very involved, uh, she sometimes struggled with the pressure. It's sort of like the, the other side of the coin, right? Like she was a really good student, but with that came a lot of pressure, whether it was external pressure or just pressure from her own mind that she had to be the best and perform academically and perform athletically, and it's just that kind of you know, classic trope of like the straight A student who's like really struggling, you know? Mentally.
Em Schulz: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Christine Schiefer: So some friends noticed she dealt with stress and anxiety throughout high school. Umm for example, one story that uh I heard in the testimony was that she had gone to our English teacher in tears about a chemistry presentation she wasn't prepared for, and, and she was almost having this like... This breakdown, and she just kept saying, "I can't see the numbers. I can't see what's in front of me."
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: And her teacher was like, "What numbers? Like what, you know, what's going on?" And she just kept saying, "I can't see the numbers." Like, I mean, she was having like...
Em Schulz: Full breakdown.
Christine Schiefer: A full breakdown. And so her, her English teacher was like, "Here, I'll come with you." umm went to meet the chemistry teacher, and the chemistry teacher agreed to give Sydney an extension and she was able to present on another day. So that's just an example of how sometimes the stress of school got to her.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: So to them, it seemed like just a moment of stress any high schooler might deal with, but it never struck anybody that Sydney had any other sort of issues, any deeper issues, anything wrong with her, umm, mental health. It just seemed like an occasional bit of anxiety like any student might have. So whether Sydney was just dealing with average anxiety or something far more serious, umm, she excelled in school, she easily collected recommendations from her teachers and she was awarded a scholarship after high school to attend the University of Mount Union, which is in Alliance, Ohio.
Em Schulz: Hmm. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: So she moved on campus uh with her high school best friend, Lauren, and they went to college together. Very cute.
Em Schulz: Precious.
Christine Schiefer: And although Sydney began struggling more intensely, it was almost like, as I think a lot of us can relate, like academically, at least I feel like when you get to college, it's like it's high school, but amplified, right? [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Like the, the pressure is just amplified in a lot of ways. So her anxiety was getting worse, umm, but her friend Lauren, her best friend, didn't really notice anything that out of the ordinary, like anything worth calling her parents about or notifying anybody. She just thought, "Okay, well, she's just having anxiety about college work."
Em Schulz: What did you, uh... How did you handle getting through college? Like, what was your experience first semester?
Christine Schiefer: You know, I feel like I felt out of place, just really out of place.
Em Schulz: Were you scared?
Christine Schiefer: I was, I was, I was nervous, but I, I actually remember the first day on campus feeling like so much better. Like I would think the leading up to it, I was more petrified, and then when I actually got there, I was like, "Oh okay, like, I can handle this." Like I feel like the, the entry bump wasn't too bad, umm, but I think that first just adjusting... Like I just felt out of place, but thankfully, Allison was my roommate, so she was friends with me.
Em Schulz: Yeah. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: But yeah, I just felt out of place. I mean I think I just, you know, picked some weird classes, some weird, uh, groups to try and join. I was dating someone at a different school, so I didn't feel like I was spending social time at my school. It just all felt kind of off. But what about you?
Em Schulz: Umm, my first semester was really bumpy. Well, yeah, my first semester was really bumpy. My second semester, I really started to thrive.
Christine Schiefer: Hmm.
Em Schulz: I feel like by sophomore year, I was a completely different person than the beginning of freshman year.
Christine Schiefer: Interesting.
Em Schulz: But my first year, I think that was the beginning of me realizing I had like... I didn't know the words for it yet, but it was ADHD. But I had like really bad motivation issues and I assumed I was depressed because I didn't know how well to explain like not being able to get out of bed to do things.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Umm, but... Yeah, I think I was just like out of place 'cause I was used to having routine and the same friends and all that. And so...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah.
Em Schulz: Socializing was hard. I didn't do really well in my classes. But by the second semester, I had kinda gotten it together.
Christine Schiefer: That's good. Yeah. I feel like that's such a hard transition. And I, I mean, I don't know how, what I would suggest they change, but I do feel like at least when we went, there really wasn't much guidance as far as, because I, I mean, I, my, I was hospital not hospitalized, but I was brought to the emergency room multiple times for what they thought was heart issues. And it ended up being panic attacks. And, you know, junior year I was so depressed, I was like calling my mom and saying like, I'm going home. I don't wanna be... You know, it was just really bad. And like everyone was like, oh, just buckle down and, you know...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Finish your school schooling, which goes back to what we talked about in the beginning of like the, just work hard and it'll all be fine. You know.
Em Schulz: I don't suggest this, but, umm, what actually worked really well for me, was that I, umm, sophomore year moved in, like, you know, you get to pick your own roommates, of course, I picked the girl I was dating. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Oh, Christ. Well, there you go.
Em Schulz: So stupid. It's probably some like Canon queer event in college now, but...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, I imagine.
Em Schulz: Umm, so when we broke up, I like had to go still sleep in a room with her for the rest of the year.
Christine Schiefer: For God's sake. That is a nightmare.
Em Schulz: And so, uh, it was, for me, it was the best thing that could have happened because it forced me out of my room. So I had to like, go find things to do.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, it was like a, like a, a rough, a rude awakening.
Em Schulz: A rude awakening. So I ended up, that's, I got a shit load of jobs. I ended up joining all my clubs. I joined Greek Life. I, you know...
Christine Schiefer: Just to avoid your roommate. [laughter]
Em Schulz: I literally...
Christine Schiefer: Your ex.
Em Schulz: I intentionally would try to be not in the room ever until she was sleeping. So, umm...
Christine Schiefer: Vote Em 2023 for mayor.
Em Schulz: I will problem solve. It won't be pretty, but it will get done. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It won't be pretty, and it'll have lasting psychological effects. But you might join the Quidditch team, who knows.
Em Schulz: Hey, you know what, I was on the Quidditch team and it was one of the best things I could have done for myself. So.
Christine Schiefer: Well, I got rejected from the Quidditch team. So, you know what? Not all of us can be so lucky. So anyway, she goes to University of Mount Union. The anxiety is getting worse. I think, umm, any of us who, who did a secondary education understand that feeling. Umm, but, you know, to, to her other friends, she just seemed pretty much the same. Umm, over summer break, after their freshman year, uh, she and her best friend Lauren hung out as usual throughout the summer back home in their hometown. And they were really excited to start their sophomore year together. And to Lauren, Sydney seemed like her normal self. She didn't drink or party. She was pretty focused on classwork. Umm, she worked hard just like she had in high school, and she was still really, really close with her mom. So they texted constantly. Like she updated her all the time about what was going on. They would tell jokes. They had inside jokes. They sent photos and memes back and forth. Like, they kept pretty constant communication. And in addition to Lauren, uh, Sydney's mom was her best friend pretty much.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: So Brenda's mother, this is Sydney's grandmother.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Said it was just always Sydney and Brenda. They were just two peas in a pod, very close. And they used an app called The Life360 App. Have you heard of this?
Em Schulz: How do I know that?
Christine Schiefer: I, I mean, I, this is took place in 2022, so I'm assuming it's a, a current... It's basically how, uh, people like it. It's like a Find my Friends app, sort of.
Em Schulz: Oh, okay. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. So it's like a family locator app, GPS location sharing. Umm, and so they would use that all the, the whole family was on it just to keep track of each other and stay up to date on each other's lives. But in secret, nobody knew it, Sydney was hiding major, major issues from Lauren and everyone else that she knew.
Em Schulz: Oh shit. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Including her own mother, especially her own mother. Turns out Sydney was actually failing almost all her classes.
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: And no matter what she did, she couldn't keep up, the school put her on academic probation. They warned her she needed to improve her grades to keep her scholarship, but she just didn't. She couldn't. And so that first semester of her sophomore year, when it ended, Sydney failed three of her four courses. And the university basically had no choice but to suspend her. Sydney told no one, she went home for winter break and acted as though everything was totally fine. Umm, you know, her parents just assumed everything was fine because she'd always been such a good student and they trusted her and they didn't pry. Umm, they weren't the kind to keep track of her grades in college. So they just assumed like if she had a problem, she would come to them, especially because she had a good relationship with her parents. But for some reason, Sydney just did not see that as an option. She was desperate for her parents to not find out about her suspension.
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: So desperate that when winter break ended, she packed up. She said, okay, heading back to my dorm and went back to school even though she was no longer enrolled.
Em Schulz: Uh-huh.
Christine Schiefer: Like she is committed to the bit.
Em Schulz: That's a, that's like, what's she gonna do is go sleep in the parking lot? Like...
Christine Schiefer: I mean, basically Em. So at first she stayed in her dorm with Lauren and even attended their sorority meetings as usual. And when the school found out that Sydney was still on campus and participating in student activities and going to classes, faculty met with her in person thinking like, well, maybe she just never got word.
Em Schulz: Oh shit. Like, how maybe we have to break it to her now.
Christine Schiefer: Awkward. Right? Like, maybe it got lost in the mail. Umm, but no, she knew, uh, she just...
Em Schulz: I mean, she had to know she wasn't enrolled in classes.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, exactly. Like, there was no way to not know. Like, she definitely knew. Umm...
Em Schulz: Like she didn't get a schedule, but like...
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: How did they find out though? Like, what, I know you wouldn't know this, but like if I were to guess.
Christine Schiefer: Well, my guess is just, it's a small camp... Like it's a pretty small campus. Umm, and I imagine like if you're going to sorority meetings and you're going to clubs and you're living in the dorm and people are seeing you around, it'll get back...
Em Schulz: I guess so.
Christine Schiefer: To the faculty or somebody, you know? At some point that, that you're not supposed to be there. Umm, you know, I, I think at one point her key card wasn't working. And I mean...
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: I might mention this later, I forget if it's in these notes, but, and, and she just like told her friend Lauren, like, oh yeah, there's just like a glitch. You know? I mean.
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: There were a lot of things that she was just kind of brushing aside, but definitely, I imagine somebody probably just took notice that like, huh, that's weird.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: She's still going to, and it, 2022, if you think about it, also like social media, you know, if she's post, if anyone...
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: She's in photos and things on social media, they can definitely say like, hmm, that's weird. She's in the dorm room. She's not supposed to be.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: So they meet with her in person and they're like, hey, listen, you know, I know this is tough, but you need to vacate your dorm because you're no longer enrolled here. They offered to help her discuss her situation with her parents, but she lied and told them her parents already knew. So like I said, they terminated access to her key card. It stopped working. Umm, but she just pretended like, oh, my card is just broken. And Lauren let her in to the dorm thinking like, oh, she just needs it to get a new ID card.
Em Schulz: How would she get into her room? Isn't the room also key activated?
Christine Schiefer: I don't know. I'm trying to remember how ours was.
Em Schulz: Mine you had to have your, you had to like use your ID.
Christine Schiefer: Is it a key?
Em Schulz: I had to use my ID.
Christine Schiefer: I think we just had like a key.
Em Schulz: Like an actual physical key?
Christine Schiefer: Am I wrong? I don't know. Maybe...
Em Schulz: What was it? The fucking 1800s?
Christine Schiefer: I know I'm like...
Em Schulz: What was it a skeleton key?
Christine Schiefer: Well, no, I mean, 'cause when you carry your, umm, candle stick back from the bathroom. [laughter] Oh I'm kidding.
Em Schulz: What the fuck. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Back from the... Em space really was like pristine. [laughter]
Em Schulz: I was like, bitch, there's no way you had to use a candle stick.
Christine Schiefer: Bitch, you and Allison, imagine if Allison and I just never mentioned that our school was also like off the grid electrically speaking. Umm, I don't know. I feel like we had a key. Maybe not, but like, wouldn't they always break then? Like I feel like they, that would just be a recipe for disaster.
Em Schulz: I don't, I mean, I...
Christine Schiefer: 'cause I know that the doors were unlocked unless you locked them physically.
Em Schulz: Oh, that was not our case.
Christine Schiefer: I'm pretty sure we had keys. I know also at Georgetown, they definitely had keys, like physical keys.
Em Schulz: That's wild. Ours was like a hotel.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Like you had to have your ID, your ID would let you in.
Christine Schiefer: Weird. Yeah. No, ours was just a fucking free for all. If you left your door open, people just wander on in.
Em Schulz: Wild.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, yeah. So anyway, they tell her, you need to leave your dorm. You can't be here anymore. But she says, sure. Got it. And continues to do so. So finally school officials meet with her for a third time, and they're like, you are, you're out of here. Like, we will remove you with security. I'm sorry. Like, you can't stay any longer. And so she finally moved out. She, she told Lauren she had decided to take a break from school because her parents thought it was a good idea, she'd take some time off. Umm, she just could not admit the truth even to her best, best friend.
Em Schulz: Well, at that point there's like so much embarrassment to it.
Christine Schiefer: It's almost like you've built, right? Like you've built it up and like, oh, I've been expelled three times. Like, that's a hard thing to say. Right? If you've been hiding it this whole time. Umm, so she, you know, she felt like she really could not go home. And she was so desperate to hide her reality from her parents that she started sleeping in hotels, sometimes her car.
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Just, just to keep this kind of ruse alive. And when she was at home, like if she stopped by at home, she would basically tell her parents that, uh, she was visiting between classes. That's all, you know?
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: So Brenda began to suspect something was off. Like, remember, they're really close and she's like, this something is not right here.
Em Schulz: Also, they have Life360, can't it say like, she's not on campus all the time.
Christine Schiefer: Ding ding ding. One afternoon, Brenda checked Life360, saw Sydney was at home when she knew she had an afternoon class. So she texted Sydney asking why she was home. And Sydney came up with an elaborate lie. It's like a pretty long text about her professor being on vacation. And so they were excused from class for the week, and she had a meeting to go to later, but she decided to stop at home for a while first. And Brenda was like, I smell something fishy here.
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: And she texted Sydney several times about other missed classes and some strange behavior she had noticed, but Sydney did not fess up and continued making excuses. So on February 25th, Brenda even texted her, "Why do I always feel like you're scamming me?"
Em Schulz: Oh shit.
Christine Schiefer: She just could not trust her on this. She felt like something was really wrong. She said, "Why do I always feel like you're scamming me? Just remember you need the grades to keep your scholarship." And Sydney responded, "Yes, I know. My grades are good. Thank you very much." Again, she's sleeping in hotels. She's not in school. She's been suspended for bad grades and she's, you know, really committing to this lie.
Em Schulz: Well, is she, is she suspended or expelled at this point? Expelled.
Christine Schiefer: So she's suspended and is not supposed to be on campus.
Em Schulz: But I mean, 'cause I could see, like, if you're only suspended that I don't, I don't know if I could do this, but I could see my brain at least jumping really quick to like, could we fake it for a semester and then come back...
Christine Schiefer: Sure. Sure.
Em Schulz: And no one would ever know.
Christine Schiefer: And that could very well be, and I'm pretty sure she was suspended. It wasn't really a full expulsion. I feel like that word got, I know I said it earlier and it's, it got thrown around a little bit, like interchangeably.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, but, you know, it was a, an academic suspension. And later on, and I know that because later on the, the school faculty or the staff even talk about, you know, how they had offered like to talk it through and figure out how she could start next semester. You know, like they, they, they were willing to work with her, right?
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Like, she wasn't expelled forever and she couldn't get back on campus. It was just like, you're not, you need to, you need to go home for a bit. Like your grades are not...
Em Schulz: MM-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Able to keep you here. So meanwhile, Sydney's father, Steven also started to notice some things were up. Umm, she had a tuition to school, but, uh, there was a, you know, a, a chunk left that her parents were paying for. And so Steven noticed that the school hadn't charged his account for her spring 2020 tuition yet. And he tried to log into the payment portal, but for some reason he couldn't get access. So he called Sydney and she says, oh, this school just, it's an error. Like, I've already notified them, they'll fix it. And, you know, just everything was like a glitch or something was just broken.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: On March 2nd, Sydney went to a bachelor viewing party with her former sorority, 'cause that was their weekly tradition. And...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: They were all happy to see her and have a, you know, I assume like a wine night to watch Bachelor. And again, Lauren did not notice anything off about Sydney. She seemed social, upbeat, like she just really seemed like herself, which I think is kind of maybe the most startling part about all this. But unfortunately in Sydney's life, things were fully unraveling. So on March 3rd, school officials called Sydney's dad...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: To discuss the suspension. And he was blindsided. I mean, he was shocked. As he's receiving this information, or at least directly afterward, he opens the Life360 app and he sees that Sydney is at home.
Em Schulz: [1:26:12.6] ____ gasp.
Christine Schiefer: And he drives home to confront her. He's like, I need to get to the bottom of this.
Em Schulz: You know, she fully panicked when she heard a car coming into the driveway.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God. Imagine she opens the 360 app and sees his car, like coming toward the house. So he drove home to confront her, and she continued to try to cover up the extent of the situation. Right? So like...
Em Schulz: Oh girl, give it up. Give it up.
Christine Schiefer: I know. It's like, it's like she just can't let it go. And it's almost...
Em Schulz: She has, she's like quadrupled down at this point. Like, there's...
Christine Schiefer: It, it's, yeah, it's, she's really, really committed. Umm, she tries to kind of spin it now, because obviously, like he knows. It's...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: It's too late. You can't lie about that anymore. So she kind of tries to spin it, right? Because like, what else is she gonna do? So she tells him, you know, I'm not so sure school is right for me. Like, it hasn't been going well. And he tries to comfort her. He encourages her, and he told her, you know what? Why don't we get through this semester, take the summer off, relax. And then like, you know?
Em Schulz: Of all the ways a parent could handle that, he really nailed it.
Christine Schiefer: I think that's the best, the best approach, right?
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: Like, don't pressure, you know, just like, let's, let's take a breather.
Em Schulz: Fucking breathe.
Christine Schiefer: Let's take a breather. Literally...
Em Schulz: Breath. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: We said at the same time, I'm like, man...
Em Schulz: We would be so good parenting together.
Christine Schiefer: We would be such good parents, huh.
Em Schulz: Let's have a baby. Just kidding.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, okay. I have one. You wanna share it?
Em Schulz: I'll, I'll share her. I'll show up once a year and, and then be tired. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: And tell her to breathe and then move on. Yeah.
Em Schulz: And then she breathes on me, and then I get sick. Yeah.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, you get hand, foot, mouth. Yeah. It's perfect. I love this arrangement. Umm, so anyway, she is saying like, I don't know about school. And he says, you know what? Don't stress. Take the summer off to relax. And he said, I know everything's gonna work out. Even though things seem really bad in the moment. Just like, very comforting, very calming. Because Sydney and Brenda were so close, he was like, you know what? I'm gonna call your mom. She, you should talk to her about this. Like, she's better at handling this kind of thing than I am. So he calls, Brenda, asked her to come home to discuss school with Sydney and help her figure out what to do next. Then he went back to work, umm, thinking, okay, good. So those two are together. They'll, they'll figure it out. Umm, they've, we've always been able to problem-solve, and Brenda knows Sydney better than anyone, so this will be great.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, it wasn't much later, I would say like less than an hour. I don't remember the exact timing, but less than an hour. Umm, a faculty member at University of Mount Union received a message from Brenda asking about Sydney's enrollment because essentially Brenda had come home to talk to Sydney and was like, I need to get ahold of the school because I need like the real answers.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: You know? If you're being evasive and you're lying, I'm gonna go straight to the source. So two school officials returned her call to discuss, umm, the situation about Sydney. But before they could get into the conversation, they heard several loud thuds.
Em Schulz: Oh, shit.
Christine Schiefer: And then screaming.
Em Schulz: [1:29:09.1] ____ gasp.
Christine Schiefer: The screaming went on and on, and then the line just disconnected.
Em Schulz: [1:29:15.1] ____ gasp. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: So terrified. They called back repeatedly until finally someone answered and said, "Hello, this is Brenda," but they said this is...
Em Schulz: I don't believe it.
Christine Schiefer: This is not Brenda. We know this is not Brenda. This is a voice we know all too well. It's the voice of Sydney, Brenda's daughter.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: They said, "Sydney, we know that's you. We know it's not your mom. Can we talk to your mom?" And the line went dead again.
Em Schulz: Oh, oh. Oh. I'm just remembering that this, this topic is called the murder of Brenda.
Christine Schiefer: Sure is. So they had a terrible feeling, of course. And they called police and said, can you do a wellness check? Something is not right over there. We heard some scary sounds and so...
Em Schulz: Thank God they did something.
Christine Schiefer: Yes. Thankfully. Because police responded pretty quickly. Umm, and again, like probably within the hour, all of this happened so fast that I think they said, you know, Steven went back to work and like within the hour he got a call from his friend who was a police detective.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: And the police detective said, "Hey, I just wanna let you know that we've just been dispatched to your house." And he's like, like, "What?" He's like, "I was just there." You know, like...
Em Schulz: Well, that probably didn't look good as a police officer it's like...
Christine Schiefer: Right. Also... Right.
Em Schulz: You were just there?
Christine Schiefer: You were? Yeah.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Uh, let me see your Life360. Where are you right now?
Em Schulz: Right. [chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. So he basically gets a call saying, oh, police are on the way to your house. I just wanted to give you a heads up. And he's like, hello? For what? So he calls Sydney, 'cause he is like, well, I just saw her there. He's worried. Something happened. Sydney doesn't answer. Then Sydney calls back and she says, oh, nothing's wrong. Don't worry. And he says, well, where's your mother? And she says, oh, she's on the phone with Mount Union right now with the university.
Em Schulz: Which is like, by the way, the worst alibi possible because the college is gonna say, we...
Christine Schiefer: We, yeah.
Em Schulz: We're the ones who heard screaming. What are you talking about?
Christine Schiefer: We called the police. Like Yeah, exactly.
Em Schulz: You couldn't have said, oh, she left. She...
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: Oh man.
Christine Schiefer: Or I, I don't know.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Anything. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Like she could, she, for someone who was trying to lie for an entire semester, like her lies are unraveling as we speak.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. I feel like the whole plot, like her whole, it's terrifying... It's just so sad. Like this whole thing is just unraveling in, in instant. Right? Because she's done something irreversible and now she has to reckon with it.
Em Schulz: She's floundering.
Christine Schiefer: She's floundering. Everything from the past few months is like coming back to kick her ass times a million, you know?
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: With, with this on top of it. So Steven's like, well, okay, your mom's on the phone with Mount Union. Umm, well, I just got word that the police are headed to the house for some reason.
Em Schulz: Ooh tipped her off.
Christine Schiefer: And Sydney became hysterical.
Em Schulz: [1:32:11.8] ____ gasp.
Christine Schiefer: And she said, "Dad, someone broke into the house. That's why the police are coming." And then she hung up.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: So he's totally out of like, I mean, so confused probably like a minute ago, she's like, oh, everything's fine. Mom's on the phone. And he's like, well, the police are coming. She's like, that's because someone broke into the house. Like, it's just...
Em Schulz: Especially when she just went, everything's fine.
Christine Schiefer: Everything's great. And then 180, right? I mean.
Em Schulz: It's like, if everything, it's like, I mean, girl, like this is a, this is a...
Christine Schiefer: It's a mess.
Em Schulz: What they call it an open, an open shut case.
Christine Schiefer: It's pretty open and shut in, in, in this way at least, in like, the logistics of what happened definitely. So when police arrived, Sydney was inconsolable. Umm, and it's, ooh, it just give me a goosecam, just thinking about it. There's, umm, body cam footage of them arriving and she kind of runs outta the house. She has blood all over her. She's in hysterics. Uh, and she, she, she's inconsolable. She's trying to almost stop the police from coming in...
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Which I imagine is, you know, probably a red flag. And she tells police there was a break in. She said all she heard was glass breaking. And then her mom told her to run. So she doesn't know what happened. Then again...
Em Schulz: And then she came back?
Christine Schiefer: She's covered in blood. Right? And she was in the house. Yeah. So she didn't run very far. Umm...
Em Schulz: Yeah she didn't run, but then she came right back. But now she's covered in blood, what is...
Christine Schiefer: And she's also covered in blood.
Em Schulz: Is there even glass that broke?
Christine Schiefer: So interestingly, uh, there is glass that broke.
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: And there was blood on the outside of the window.
Em Schulz: Oh, okay.
Christine Schiefer: Meaning the window...
Em Schulz: She...
Christine Schiefer: Had been broken after...
Em Schulz: After the blood.
Christine Schiefer: The blood had spilled. Yes. So the police escort her outside. She, you can watch this on the body cam footage. She collapses in the driveway and just becomes like catatonic. And she begins clawing the asphalt with her fingers. She's hyperventilating and she's mumbling to herself. Get out, get out, get out.
Em Schulz: Oh, shit.
Christine Schiefer: So they put a blanket over her and transport her to the hospital. And when they get inside, they see Brenda. She is very badly injured. And officers know pretty quickly that she is not gonna survive this attack.
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: They can definitely tell, like you said, pretty open and shut that Sydney had attacked her mother. She had first hit her over the head with an iron skillet.
Em Schulz: [1:34:39.0] ____ gasp. Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: Then she had dropped the skillet, retrieved a knife and stabbed Brenda at least 23 times in the neck.
Em Schulz: Whoa.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. It's like this story just hit me so hard watching the test, watch... It, it somehow, it's just, I don't, maybe it's 'cause we can all, or not all of us I guess, but many of us can relate to having like, tension with our mom, you know, or like having that kind of like closeness, but also that tension and the fighting. I don't know. Maybe that's why. But something about this just really like struck a nerve with me. Umm...
Em Schulz: It's also, I mean, if, if it time-wise it feels so close, it just happened. So like it's...
Christine Schiefer: That's true. That's true.
Em Schulz: It's not like a, you know, we've talked about this before.
Christine Schiefer: It's unfolding. Yeah, exactly.
Em Schulz: But it feels like it could have been any of our friend's moms or anyone we knew. And...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Also, I mean, to know that she was screaming for so long and it's... So she was screaming as she was getting stabbed in the neck.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: It's like she knew what was happening like that...
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: That makes it worse, 'cause you, you hope that getting hit in the head would've knocked her out and she wouldn't know, but she, but she knew.
Christine Schiefer: And it's so hard because like, of course I understand the like, the mental illness aspect of all this, but also to go get a second weapon...
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: You know, it's like, whoa. And then to, well, okay, we'll get into all that. But essentially, uh, they knew that this is what Sydney had done. Umm, and the scene was shocking. Uh, Sydney had absolutely no history of violence whatsoever. Her family genuinely, Em, couldn't even remember Brenda and Sydney arguing. Like they didn't even fight. Like they didn't even have a contentious relationship.
Em Schulz: Which, which makes it, which makes it worse because not only was she screaming in like physical pain, but like she had to be so emotionally confused.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Well, and also I will point out, we don't know who was screaming. Like maybe it was Sydney screaming.
Em Schulz: That's true.
Christine Schiefer: You know? I mean, they just heard screaming. I don't know...
Em Schulz: That's true.
Christine Schiefer: I just want, I just wanna say in case the call comes out or something. I don't, I have no idea. I don't know who was screaming, but there was...
Em Schulz: Yeah, let's hope it was, it was not Brenda.
Christine Schiefer: That would be probably better question mark?
Em Schulz: But still to like see to, to all of a sudden have the person you trust the most just snap like that.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. And to be hit on the head like that while on the phone, it almost feels like a desperate...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Like, surprise attack, basically. So this attack was something that her family genuinely could not comprehend. I mean, again, she never even argued with her mother, let alone like, had full out brawls.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: And it was so brutal. Even school officials later said that when Brenda picked up the phone the first time around, like when they first started chatting, she seemed really calm. Like it didn't, they didn't get the vibe that like things were tense in the household. They didn't get the vibe that Brenda and Sydney were arguing. Brenda was like perfectly calm and friendly. So it didn't even seem like there was the, like they called in the midst of a heated discussion or anything like that.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: Brenda was transported to a hospital and unfortunately she succumbed to her wounds. When Sydney finally spoke, she repeated the story that there had been a break in, umm, at the house. Like I said, uh, she had broken that window outside, but then there was blood on the outside of the window, meaning somebody had done it after the attack. So this was obviously like a feeble coverup attempt.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, essentially the evidence was just overwhelming. So it was not difficult to prove Sydney had been the assailant. She pretty quickly dropped the lie. Umm, and although it was cut and dry, like you said, in that we know who did it to whom and with what, uh, they could not understand the motive. Like it was just...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: So difficult to believe Sydnee would kill her mother to cover up being suspended or expelled. Umm, especially now that her parents knew. Like she had just talked to Steven about it, like he knew about it.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: So it just was a little bit, it just seemed over the top. Like it just didn't seem to match anything.
Em Schulz: It didn't that have been...
Christine Schiefer: The motive didn't match her?
Em Schulz: Could it have been like she thought maybe she could trick her dad into believing a story, but when she knew, like her mom would find out, like she just panicked that...
Christine Schiefer: She couldn't handle it.
Em Schulz: Her cover was blown, or?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. I mean, it must be like, that's really the only thing that makes sense. Umm, at this point, a psychologist evaluated her and actually believed she had suffered what he called a psychotic break. Uh...
Em Schulz: Yeah. I mean, hello. She's like scratching asphalt and saying, get out, get out.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Well, and then the other argument to that is that she, which...
Em Schulz: Was faking it?
Christine Schiefer: No, not even, but that she's traumatized from what just happened...
Em Schulz: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: As anyone would be, right? Like even if you weren't having a psychotic episode and you stabbed someone to death in the fit of a heated argument or what have you...
Em Schulz: Or...
Christine Schiefer: You'd probably be deeply traumatized by that as well, you know? So...
Em Schulz: Yeah. And also if you had a psychotic break and now you're coming down from that break and you realize you just killed the person you love the most.
Christine Schiefer: Right, exactly.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: So it's either, some people say she's faking it, some people say no, she was just having a reaction to something really traumatic. Umm, but she had done it in her right mind, so to speak. And some people say, you know, it was a full on psychotic break. So it's, it's, it's definitely hotly contested. Umm...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: People are pretty split over this. Sydney claimed to remember nothing about the attack. Umm, she said she remembered sitting on the couch with her mom and crying, and then she suddenly remembered feeling a need to escape walking down to the basement and coming back up. But that's all she said she remembered. She said she'd been hearing voices that told her she was worthless and that she should kill herself.
Em Schulz: Oh shit.
Christine Schiefer: And she couldn't remember anything else until she was in the hospital after the attack, and it felt like she was suddenly waking up. This is what she describes to police. Now, the horror of the attack was so far out of the scope of Sydney's personality and behavior that her family firmly believed, this must have been some sort of extreme break from reality that she suffered.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: Otherwise, they could not understand how she could have behaved this way. Her father and her, uh, maternal grandmother, Brenda's mom, whose name was Betsy, even though her granddaughter murdered her daughter, she did not want Sydney to be charged with murder. She just fully believed that she needed psychiatric care.
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: So the family really, really advocated for her to be released on bond to receive psychiatric care while she awaited the hearing, and she was granted the bond and was released under psychiatric supervision. She was involuntarily committed to an inpatient psychiatric hospital for nine days. And while there, she was evaluated and officially diagnosed with schizophrenia. So while she was there, she was prescribed a medication for the schizophrenia, and she seemed to respond pretty well to the medication and was ultimately released to the care of her grandmother. And she lived there with her grandma, Betsy, on their family farm. And from what they could tell, you know, she was going to treatment with a psych psychiatrist, a counselor. She helped with the chores at the farm, like stacking hay. And she seemed to be like engaged in family life. Umm, and so her family was like, well, this is a Sydney, we've always known, we just can't reconcile this with what they're saying happened to Brenda.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: So despite her family's wishes, prosecutors believed they had a duty to the community to move forward with the murder charges against Sydney. And her own dad at a pretrial hearing said, I don't know why we're doing this. This isn't what anyone wants here. I don't know how she can handle it. I don't know how I can handle it. I'm trying to keep my family together.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: But they went forward with it. And at the trial, Sydney's friends and teachers were called as witnesses. Umm, they told stories about just great times they had with her, how much they laughed with her, all their happy memories, just the lack of any memories of her doing anything violent or against the rules. And two more medical experts also evaluated Sydney confirming her diagnosis and testifying that she was indeed experiencing psychosis when she murdered Brenda. They said at the moment of the attack, she did not know, like right from wrong, she didn't know reality from fantasy. However, the prosecution brought their own clinical psychologist, and this clinical psychologist denied the diagnosis and said Sydney instead had borderline traits and unspecified anxiety, but she did not believe that Sydney exhibited any symptoms of schizophrenia.
Em Schulz: Interesting. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Yes. So definitely like getting two sides, two opposite testimonies here.
Em Schulz: Sure.
Christine Schiefer: Two opposite diagnoses really. It was her opinion that Sydney's condition in the driveway, like I was saying, was brought on by shock after murdering her mom, not by psychosis.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Which I could, I could believe either one. Right? Like I...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: I could believe somebody in shock could be reacting that way. I could believe someone in psychosis could be acting that way. Who knows? Sydney also apparently claimed to have experienced symptoms of psychosis as young as 11 years old. But the prosecution psychologist testified that women rarely exhibit symptoms of psychosis at such a young age. And if she had, people would've noticed.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: So that sort of muddied the waters as far as Sydney's claim that she was suffering from psychosis.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: This started to lean the jury in the other way because a prosecution started to argue that Sydney was lying to seek an insanity plea. And they also argued, which this one is a fair point, Sydney staging a break in...
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: Demonstrated that she knew...
Em Schulz: What she was doing.
Christine Schiefer: What, what she was doing. What she had done was wrong. She knew she was gonna get in trouble for it. She knew, she knew she had done done something terrible. And...
Em Schulz: I could also... I could see, I, I could see her having a break though, and then coming to and realizing like, oh shit. Now that this has happened, I need to cover my tracks. And like...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: You know, like...
Christine Schiefer: I just don't know like, I mean, I don't know. I'm not, we're clearly not medical mental health professionals, but I just wonder, like, do you just snap? I don't know if you snap in and out of this so quickly. You know?
Em Schulz: I don't know. I have no idea. I just, I wonder if like the... It could be anything.
Christine Schiefer: And, and the fact that she, but remember she was saying like, like her claim was that she didn't remember anything until the hospital. So it's sort of like...
Em Schulz: Oh, okay.
Christine Schiefer: It's sort of like, well then...
Em Schulz: So you, you did come to, in some way to make that...
Christine Schiefer: Right. You were cognizant enough to realize you had to try and cover your tracks, you know?
Em Schulz: Right. Right, right, right.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, and she, you know, remember when her dad called and she was like, oh yeah, mom's just on the phone. Like she had already...
Em Schulz: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: She had already killed her at that point.
Em Schulz: You're totally right. Yeah. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: So it, it's definitely very hotly debated, I guess I'll say. They also said that her use of multiple weapons, which, you know, it wasn't just like a, she swung and then dropped and realize what she did. Like she swung...
Em Schulz: And then decided she wanted, she needed something more intense and yeah. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah. So they said the use of multiple, this is a prosecution saying, "The use of multiple weapons and the brutality proved murderous intent." Umm, however, her lawyer actually argued the exact opposite. He said, "The brutality speaks to the insanity of this incident." And I'm like, I can really understand both. I, like, I can understand both arguments, I guess.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Sydney's family, uh, who never saw Sydney fight or be violent, agreed that the mental illness was the reason for this attack. And the defense's expert said Sydney was simply displaying atypical symptoms of psychosis, but really had actually experienced psychosis. And they believed that she had begun experiencing symptoms as a child that maybe were easily missed. And that as she got older and moved into her own place, the dorm that she, these symptoms like worsened and she didn't know how to handle them. And that's what triggered this bout of psychosis.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: In the following days, they believed she lapsed in and out of reality. Sometimes she was lucid enough to carry on conversations. Sometimes she was just confused and totally disconnected. The defense said she had no true motive to kill her mother, but the prosecution said that she did, and that her motive was that she would've done anything, anything at all, no matter how terrible to avoid disappointing her mother.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: They believed Sydney would rather have killed her mom than have her find out the truth. Many who followed the trial agreed that Sydney murdered her mother in a fit of rage, like sort of a crime of passion. And that her true motive was just to avoid the reality of her situation. Like she just...
Em Schulz: That's what I would've thought. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. And it's sort of what you said, like she just couldn't handle her mom finding out the truth, you know? Even though she, like, on some level, her dad already knew, you know? So it's like...
Em Schulz: I mean, I could, I could see like, if your mom is your best friend and the last thing you wanna do is disappoint her, or like, just if you're backed into a corner and you're having that type of break from reality.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: Just thinking, how do I make sure she doesn't find out and like, get rid of her? I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: Like, I mean, I, I obviously don't get it 'cause I, I haven't been there, but I could see being so scared disappointing her that there's no other way out anymore.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. And I think the key word is like, backed into a corner because...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Or the key phrase, I guess. Because it, it, her lies were just becoming so piled up that what you said earlier too, of not telling her friend, her best friend, because at that point the school has suspended you or expelled you three times. Like that's not something now you wanna admit. Like the first time you cover it up and then the more lies get added, the harder it is to come clean. Probably the more embarrassing.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Probably the more shameful. Umm, and then to have to explain like, I was living in my car, I was sleep, I was lying, I was sleeping in hotels, I...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: You know? Like all of that comes tumbling down.
Em Schulz: I mean she... Even she had, even she had to know that that was like beyond an, a common reaction. And so, like, maybe it's even admit that it's not just admitting anymore that you were suspended, it's admitting like, my, I let myself get this far and then there's a real worry.
Christine Schiefer: It went, it went so... Exactly like it went so far that, you know? That's exactly, I think what happened. It just built up and built up and built up. And then it became like this monster of its own.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: That she was just so afraid would get out. I mean, it was bound to happen eventually one way or another. Unfortunately the worst way. Umm, so that's what most people believe. They believe, you know, she murdered her mother in a fit of rage. Umm, and she just could not, she just could not handle her mother finding out about the reality of, of what was going on. And she couldn't handle facing the reality of what she had done. Umm, and that side believes she knew the reality full well. Like she was in full control of her mind. She was "in her right mind," uh, but that she just didn't wanna face it.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: If that makes sense.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: So in the end, that is what the jury decided. They sided with the prosecution after nine hours of deliberation, and they found Sydney guilty on all four charges brought against her.
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: And those charges were purposeful murder, felony murder, felonious assault, and tampering with evidence.
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Guilty of all charges. In September of this year, 2023, Sydney was sentenced to life in prison with eligibility for parole after serving 15 years.
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: The family, of course, now had this to mourn on top of the loss of Brenda. A doctor who had worked with Brenda wrote a letter. This part made me tear up. One of Brenda's colleagues at the hospital wrote a letter to be read in court, which said, "I have almost never felt so strongly that I need to offer a voice of advocacy as I have in this tragic situation. If Brenda were still alive, she would without a doubt, want the unwavering support of Sydney's continued treatment for her mental condition in the least restrictive environment possible with as much family connection and contact as is possible."
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: So in the wake of this verdict, which just happened a couple months ago, as we record this, Sydney's defense team said the most important thing now will be ensuring Sydney continues to receive the treatment and support she needs to remain healthy to recover. Brenda in the meantime, is remembered by the many, many people that she supported in her 28 years at Akron Children's Hospital. Her patients, their families, and her coworkers continue to mourn her. And the, you know, just incredible, uh, impact she had on their lives. A scholarship fund was created in her memory as well, and is actually accepting donations currently through Akron Children's Hospital. Uh, it provides education funds to students who have been, uh, hematology or oncology patients...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: At Akron Children's Hospital, which I think is a really cool, cool thing and a cool way to remember her. And this fund is just another way that Brenda and her legacy continue to, you know, help her, help her former patients and, and their families after she has been taken too soon.
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: But that is the story of, of Brenda Powell. It, this one really, uh, made me sad.
Em Schulz: Yeah. For a lot of reasons. But I do also think that...
Christine Schiefer: For so many.
Em Schulz: It's because it's, umm, I'm close with my mom. So that one, that, that's...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: One drive home, and then also, umm, like I said earlier, just because it's so recent, like someone we know could have, could know her, you know? Like...
Christine Schiefer: Could be involved. Yeah. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: I think, I think what gets me... What gets me is I was reading, I was watching one of the test, court testimonies, and of course I just had to, I scrolled down to the comments, and oh my...
Em Schulz: Oh, Christine.
Christine Schiefer: I mean, oh my God. Like, just to see the things people are saying about this young woman, and like, I understand. I mean, it's all just, it's all just terribly sad, right? And then...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: In the comments, people are saying like, yeah, I bet you that worthless father didn't even know like what classes she was taking. And, you know, that her mom, like, there's no way they were close because X, Y, and Z. And you know, her mom, like, wants her to like go to the, you know, get...
Em Schulz: How do you not have empathy? What are you talking about?
Christine Schiefer: It was so outrageously, uh, righteous in the scariest ways. Well, like both sides, like people saying like, you know, she's totally innocent and blah, blah, blah. And then people saying like, she deserves to like burn in hell. And like, just scary shit...
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: Where I'm like, this is, it's terribly sad whether it was a fit of rage or psychosis, yeah, it's, it's just fucking terribly sad. Like, it's terrible.
Em Schulz: Also think about like the father, think about the best friend. Think about the grandma. Like they...
Christine Schiefer: They've just lost so much.
Em Schulz: And like out, out of nowhere, like out of...
Christine Schiefer: Out of nowhere.
Em Schulz: Like he literally...
Christine Schiefer: But like, I'm not, I'm not defending her and saying like, well, you know, she was stressed. Like, okay. Of course not. Of course not. But like...
Em Schulz: But that poor man, he like, just, he got a phone call and then he got another phone call and then everything in his life changed for the...
Christine Schiefer: Instantly.
Em Schulz: For the rest of time.
Christine Schiefer: I mean, it's just very sad whether, again, whether it was a psychosis or whether she was just in a fit of rage, she killed her mom. And that's really fucking sad and horrible. And the fact that they were so close is what really, really gets me. It's like... It's just upsetting to hear, you know, her grandma, for example, talk about like how they were inseparable. They were two peas in a pod. They had so many inside jokes. Like they were deeply connected. And it's like, you know how love and hate are so close? Like...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: They're not opposites. They're just like...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: One degree away. It, it feels like that, like a, a crime of passion. Like, she's just so angry and she hurt the one person she loved most, you know? And she can't take it back. And it's just, it makes me really sad.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: So.
Em Schulz: Well, once again, Christine, good storytelling. I don't know how to end this. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Thanks. I've had fun. Hope you have too.
Em Schulz: Umm, I feel bad for you. You've, you're the one that has to research all this stuff in-depth. No wonder you always have so much anxiety. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Okay. I, no, for real though, the other day I said something, I was like, mom, I keep having these dreams about 9/11. And she's like, yep. And I was like, what? Why are you saying yep. Like, what are you talking about? And she's like, you know, things like that just, just happen every now and then. And Blaise was like, Christine, you literally just research...
Em Schulz: Death for your, your whole job.
Christine Schiefer: Death all day.
Em Schulz: Your whole job is...
Christine Schiefer: And then I have the audacity to wake up and say, oh my God, I dreamed I was on a plane. And I mean, it's really scary. I keep having these nightmares. Umm, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know why, but yeah. This probably doesn't help.
Em Schulz: It can't help. It cannot help.
Christine Schiefer: It can't help. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Yeah. It... Well...
Christine Schiefer: He ha ha ha ha. We have fun.
Em Schulz: Well, uh, do you feel at least a little less overwhelmed that we have done notes and recorded an episode?
Christine Schiefer: I do actually. I, I'm really proud of us.
Em Schulz: I'm proud of us too. This should have not happened.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Just knowing who we are.
Christine Schiefer: Knowing us.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: I wasn't convinced, but look at us go.
Em Schulz: What's the next thing on your list to check off if you can check anything off today actually mentally.
Christine Schiefer: Well, I, I am going to, uh, have, uh, drinks with my stepmom as I use as an example 'cause it's really what's happening. So I'm, I'm off off to do that. And then I have to pick up a bunch of shit from different stores and try and get stuff done. How about you?
Em Schulz: Do you know what you're... Do you know what you're gonna order with your stepmom?
Christine Schiefer: Umm, no. 'Cause we're going to her house, so, and she said she bought champagne.
Em Schulz: Oh, so you do know what you're gonna drink?
Christine Schiefer: Oh, well, I know what I'm gonna drink. Yes, indeed. Yes, indeed. Umm, because my brother's driving, so I get champagne today.
Em Schulz: Gotcha. Uh, I am working on presence. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Me too. That is like a never ending...
Em Schulz: That's, that's all I'm doing for today.
Christine Schiefer: Project.
Em Schulz: The day this one project is over, I can't wait to discuss it, but, umm...
Christine Schiefer: Uh-huh.
Em Schulz: But let's just say I've been working on this stupid thing since like, uh, July for my mom and really coming down to the Wire here. And I'm pretty sure I'll be up until, I think I'll be pulling an all-nighter on Christmas Eve trying to get it done before she opens it Christmas morning. So...
Christine Schiefer: Well, considering this comes out next year, this episode. Umm...
Em Schulz: Oh, oh.
Christine Schiefer: We can say, Em, confidently I know it went great. Oh this is the first episode of 2023, besides the Listener Episode.
Em Schulz: Girl, 2024. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I mean 2024. Remember last year you said, or last year. Last week you said 2025.
Em Schulz: I, I think something's going on in 2024 that we desperately already somehow know we don't wanna be attached.
Christine Schiefer: I'm actually scared. I'm actually scared how much we're avoiding saying that year, yeah.
Em Schulz: Cosmically, we know that we don't wanna be a part of 2024.
Christine Schiefer: I don't like it. I don't like it.
Em Schulz: Umm, yeah, well, hopefully 2024 goes well and hopefully my mom's Christmas present goes well. 'Cause I actually am kind of scared that she's gonna be mad at me because I...
Christine Schiefer: No, it's gonna be great. You did, I know what it is, and I think you nailed it. Seriously. Seriously.
Em Schulz: I... Okay. I hope so. I went against her exact wishes, so, umm... [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Oh, excellent.
Em Schulz: We'll see.
Christine Schiefer: Well, but you're also making it right the way that she wanted at the end, right?
Em Schulz: Sure. Okay. Yes, yes, yes.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Okay. A side note. Last thing I wanna say, umm, Blaise just texted me 'cause they're at the aquarium.
Em Schulz: Precious.
Christine Schiefer: Leona just got her first picture with Santa.
Em Schulz: [1:59:04.1] ____ gasp.
Christine Schiefer: It, it was Scuba Santa. [laughter]
Em Schulz: And you missed it, Christine.
Christine Schiefer: And he said, I will buy the photo. Don't worry.
Em Schulz: Scuba Santa, that's probably the exact Santa that you're gonna wanna memorialize anyway. So...
Christine Schiefer: Hilarious. I'm like, that would be the Santa, she just is like, oh, Santa comes, he wears a scuba mask. [laughter] Like, I just know.
Em Schulz: Well, there, there are fishes down there that need presents too, you know? So...
Christine Schiefer: That's right. Mermaids. Hello?
Em Schulz: Mermaids. Mermaids need presents. Yeah. Oh, well, go have fun with your little mermaid and umm, and I guess I'll see you...
Christine Schiefer: Thanks.
Em Schulz: I can't say see you next year 'cause we're already in next year, but I'll physically see you next year.
Christine Schiefer: I will see you next year.
Em Schulz: And...
Christine Schiefer: That's...
Em Schulz: Why...
Christine Schiefer: We...
Em Schulz: Drink.
